Coleman has pace, Beckford has pace, Saha has pace, and although his looks are deceiving Anichebe is very fast. Sure we could use more down the left, after we lost Pienaar, but you don't have to be full of speed to be able to attack well. Barcelona aren't full of speed. In fact their main form of attack is lateral passing and short passes forward to continue to draw the defense in. The difference is they are the best at it and eventually slip someone in behind the defense once they spot a mistake. But they don't go flying down the wings.

And neither does Manchester United. They play it down the middle, swing it out wide and then come back to the middle. The real difference between these teams and us when I watch us play is the amount of players presenting for the ball. We only have one or maybe two players in the area of the ball. So easy to mark. Which inevitably leads us to have to play longer passes, which have much better odds of being picked off, immediately pressured, or just increasing the likelihood of inaccuracy.

What do you see when you watch Arsenal play? You see three or four Arsenal players presenting an option for the ball. Not all surrounding the player with the ball. But what they have is a triangle of three players, including the man is possession, and then two player outside of that. This means that once the ball is played to either player in the triangle, there is immediately another player in the vicinity to begin the form another triangle. And if the defense cheats up too much on the closest players, then they'll just play a dummy or a straight ball to one of the outside two players.

Everton make it far too easy. We have only a couple of players around the ball and even then they are too far apart. This is what Baines and Pienaar did so great together. They worked closely together and would hit the other on an overlap when the defense over committed. They loved to play short passes to one another and draw the defense in. And this was also one of the things Bilyaletdinov complained about in his first year at Everton. That there was too much space between the players and not enough tight space passing to open up the defense. We don't need a ton more speed. We need tighter spacing in our passing and more players presenting for the ball.

Nice one David. Maybe Moyes could use you on the coaching staff. You'd have to work for free though, the last of the money was spent on some bricks.

Seriously though, you made interesting points.

Agree David, but what you describe basically requires two things. Imagination and intelligence and I have seen neither at Everton since Joe Royle left.

Dour, pinch-faced, thin-lipped Scottish Presbyterians are brilliant when it comes to things like running accounting firms or taking enemy machine-gun nests in WWll ("Cor, Jock's only flippin' done it by isself!!") but the last 13 years or so watching Everton tells me they're fucking useless when it comes to radically changing a situation - and what we're doing on the pitch NEEDS radical change, FAST!

(nb: By the way, I DON'T mean Presbyterian in a religious sense, just as 'a type',...like Private Fraser From Dad's Army, or Walter 'verra dessappointat' Smith).

I agree that the lack of pace is a key issue which has just got worse with Coleman's injury.

If only we could have signed N'zogbia, got Strurridge on loan and one more (SWP) then we would be a lot less predictable to defend against. Quite slow build up play is generally the norm, the only threat in behind the defence is a Coleman dart or if Baines manages to get to the byline. Saha is crying out for a strike partner to run in behind the defence to immediately add an extra dimension to our front play, his game is to come deep and link play which is great but then there's no-one in the box. Beckford could do this to a certain extent.

Fellaini would look an even better player with more attacking passes to play to pacey wingers rather than square pass after square pass, slowing down our attacks that allow the opposition to regroup.

Saying that Barkley looks a great prospect good feet and confident to demand the ball. Baines is just superb!!

Hopefully the lack of pace will be addressed if/when the Yak & Yobo are sold.

The team does need more pace but not as much as it needs players with a good first touch who are able to keep the ball. It is completely different playing Spanish teams and we contained them quite well to be fair but seeing them stroke the ball about and there movement compared to Anichebe who at the start of the second half stood on the ball just about summed up the difference in the footballing ability of the two teams.

On a positive note Barkley looks good enough to be thrown in now and Moyes must think he can play anywhere across midfield and it was nice to see he doesn't smash the ball to a player five yards away and tries to make it easy for the player recieving the ball instead of him needing three fuckin touches to control the thing. Baines looked are main threat but if Moyes thinks he can get away with playing Anichebe infront of him he needs to have a word with himself.

The main thing noticeable in the game was how strength, brawn and pace are king with are coaches whilst the Spaniards still remember words like guile, creativity, skill and ball not bomb.

Agree David, i know it was only a friendly last night but just watching the Villareal style compared to ours highlighted a huge difference in style. Always playing short, sharp passes in triangles with at least two options for the man on the ball, letting the ball provide the pace for the team. It was a little embarrasing at times as we were chasing shadows.

I thought we played well first half but fell apart in the 2nd.

I thought Ross Barkley was excellent and looking forward to seeing him this year.

I am concerned by Jack Rodwell who appeared lost at times and Beckford was awful when he came on.

We are in dire need of a striker who can create let alone convert chances.
Wright-Phillips or Landon for some creativity on the wings.

Some good obervations, particularly from David @ 1. In one sense these comments about playing styles could apply to Spanish vs English teams in general (think of the Barceona vs ManU final). Only Arsenal play in the Spanish way, in clusters with close passing and quick movement (it's not pace per se).

Having said that, Everton have a particular problem with movement and do not have enough players comfortable on the ball. With no players coming in and no apparent tactical innovation, I can't see this changing in the short term. Not a good harbinger for the new season.

Why when our strikers get the ball are they ALWAYS facin' the wrong fuckin' way......?!?!?!?!?

Shite. Again.

I have a feelin' it'll not be the first time we say that this coming season.

I look forward to the dentist more.

Same old problems I'm afraid. Too many players being played out of position, no width and no creativity. Why was Bily sat on the bench the whole game when Neville played what the last 20 mins as a right winger? Desparate tactics and the season hasn't even started yet.

Still the performance wasn't the most embarrassing thing of the night, that honour was reserved for the commentator announcing that the main stand was empty because it had hust been painted!! Haven't we had all summer to get the paint brushes out - I'm sure the squad and staff could have mucked in to help out to build our famed spirit even further!

Great, our whole transfer budget blown on a pot of paint. At least we could now use it to piss in.

Our problem is we have no-one in the team who can beat a player and create space. Other teams simply squeeze up knowing that they won't get spun or done for pace.

People keep blabbin' on about we need a striker ? do we really? How Many clear chances did we create last night? One ? and that was from our left back, and the that stated, "Barca have no pace" ? are you serious? Messi is the quickest player on the planet over 10 meters... Pedro, Alves, Affelly... Villa is no slowcoach either, and not to mention they just bought Sanchez who is lightning.

We need pacey tricky wingers; until we get them, we will continue to play the same boring slow footie. But, then again, Mmoyes has had 10 years to sort this problem out... 10 years and still counting... :-(

Lee #10 ? "Why was Bily on bench?"

Have you seen him play? He is complete shit... and as for Everton saying it's Anichebe who is going to be the man this season, god help us.

And what is it with Rodwell? Side and back passes... £15M? ha ha!

I am so bored with the whole thing. The club heirarchy have demonstrated the most alarming disrespect for the whole fanbase throughout the last six transfer windows. Their complacency about the fans is sickening. I wouldn't mind if the plan was to stick with the players we have and bring on the kids if that's what was articulated but it plainly isn't what the manager wants. For the first time in a long time no member of the Gillen family will have a season ticket this year. My brother and brother in law have both given up their seats and their children's seats. I am going to take refuge in vastly superior products (English cricket) and in local football for the kids in Grimsby. It's humbling to be an Evertonian at the moment, we're a laughing stock.

I would like to see our players run with the ball down the centre and take players on and force mistakes.

Our play never changes we simply try and pass at the back and make some space out wide then get the ball wide, fire a cross in thats cleared and start the whole same process again.

Thats why we don't score, we get to the final third of the pitch and we don't have a clue. Moyes will not change this he tries the same thing over and over again and comes back with the same results, either a narrow win, a bore draw or a beating.

Lee, to be fair we started painting the stand at the start of the off season. But it's a lot for one man to do and the club couldn't afford any more.

I think David @1 absolutely nails it. It's not about pace or players who can run with the ball. It's all about movement and tactics. It's about players showing for the ball and working together to exploit space so simple passes can be made. Villarreal (like barca) didn't have that much pace and they didn't have to play that many complicated passes, they just had people always showing and keen to move into space and work the ball around.

That is what the best teams in Europe and the premiership do and when we have the likes of arteta, fellaini and osman in the middle we can do it ok. Not however it seems when we have the likes of pnev, Cahill or heitinga who just don't play that way.

Saha is always trying to do the right things, always making himself an option in attack. You can see his frustration every time an attack breaks down. I feel only him, Baines and perhaps Distin are reading from the right page at the moment. Barkley obviously has bags of potential, but needs more game time. All the other players only seem able to either square pass, hoof the shit out of the ball, or run down the flanks like headless chickens.

Mid-table mediocrity beckons, methinks
.

i think david moyes needs to stop kidding himself with victor anichebe. he was shocking last night. never chased any balls never wanted it and never looked interested. whats the point in him being here, he obviously doesnt want to play for our club. why not give baxter or even bily a run instead. All moyes wants him to do it batter defenders with his strength but he isnt even doing this. come on victor shape up or ship out!!

any one else got any opinions on this?

Was really impressed with the footballing side of Villarreal last night, so having a potter about, looked up the Villarreal midfield that led us a merry dance in the 2nd half. I was actually quite surprised:

Cani was their most expensive at ?11M, and the suprising bit was;
Camunas at ?2.3M, Bruno was a player that Villarreal's B team picked up on a free;
Wakaso was also a free picked up by the B team and this will be his 1st season in the senior team; and
Velero was a player who couldn't cut it at West Brom.

Just goes to show, you don't have to pay a fortune for players who can actually play football.

Good point, David. I have always been one of those who constantly go on about our lack of pace.

I still think we need a Kanchelskis type just to give us an extra option even if we do sort out our passing and moving.

I could only watch the first half last night, workin' nights, but I thought that Barkley looked like a class act in the making. Especially in the first 20 mins or so.

Nice to see that Baines looked like his usual self. God help us if he gets injured.

Alan 18 ? I agree. Victor should be let go but the way Moyes keeps going on about him it doesn't look likely. You never know mate, maybe Vic will suprise us all this season and have a stormer??? Let's hope so.

Poor display, but seriously, Anichebe is the worst footballer I think I've seen in the royal blue. I thought wingers (even though he is supposedly a striker) had the control and skill to beat full backs.

Same problems as usual... I don't know why we are even surprised.

Another point, it seems that Moyes will hold Barkley back as he did with Rodwell. I feel this is the reason Rodwell is a shadow of himself recently. Just let the reins off Ross Barkley and let him play. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Why hold him back and suppress him? He showed he can pick a pass better that anyone else last night.

Also, can anybody tell me what Johnny Heitinga adds to our squad? More times than enough last season he pulled out of tackles he should have won. I can see no commitment from him at all.

The future has to be a trio of Fellaini, Barkley and Rodwell in midfield. Fellaini was excellent last night and bossed the midfield and allowed Barkley to mix it up a bit.

I judge a footballing performance by what I can remember the day later ? i.e. the moments from during the game that stick in the memory. With the exception of Distin, Baines, Barkley & Coleman, everyone was shite?

• Howard ? one decent save and went to sleep for their goal
• Neville ? can?t remember anything he did; says it all that
• Jagielka ? suffered in the 2nd half
• Fellaini ? made a good tackle at the Street End in the 1st half; that?s fuckin? it
• Rodwell ? passed it sideways / backwards (again) ALL night
• Cahill ? every time he got the ball he was facin? the wrong fuckin? way
• Anichebe ? won the ball and the Villarreal player he tackled rolled over like he?d been twatted with a bat
• Saha ? one shot in the 1st half
• Yak ? did he touch it when he came on?
• Beckford ? disappeared up his own arse (again)

Have I missed anyone; you know what, I don?t fuckin? care??!?!?!?!?

It REALLY pains me to say it, but, the stark reality of the situation is that staying up & perhaps a Cup run this year (again), will have to be considered success for Everton. We?ve got the cutting edge of a fuckin? spatula and it?s been the same for years?

?Mundane? (much like this post; mainly because we've said all this before) is the word of the day.

Fellow Evertonians.. Save money on expensive, up-to-date football games. Simply purchase FIFA 2009 & be up-to-date with the current squad. The kids will not notice & you can spend what you saved on drowning your sorrows!

It funny how fans see the game differently. Alan, you mention that Fellaini was excellent and bossed the midfield, and Andy says apart from a tackle, he done fuck all else.

I probalby wouldn't say he done fuck - all, but I wouldn't say he was excellent and bossed the midfield either, he did okay, nothing special.

at the end of the day we have to cut our clothe to fit our table. its unlikely we will get players in and we have to just get on with it. lets see how we play next week and then reserve judgement until after that.

I've been saying it for years....as bad as he may be Kenwrong CANNOT be blamed for the tactics or team style of play... that is soley down to THE MANAGER and him alone.

More and more supporters are now begining to see what I've been seeing for a very long time. Moyes' tactics are absolutely dire and he will NEVER admit when he gets it wrong....and that's why he KEEPS getting it wrong.

Every Evertonian I know can see that we have needed PACE and CRAFT in the team for a long time....the only person who appears not to think so is...??....yes you've guessed it THE MANAGER !!

It's not as if that type of player isn't out there... SWP & Bellamy to name but two spring to mind and BOTH are better than the attacking players we have and both have PACE !!.

Even if Moyes had an 'open cheque book' I wouldn't trust him with it...This is the man who paid £10 Mil for Bily don' forget...

Let's face it Moyes' current tactics are absolutely awful and we will NEVER win any kind of trophy whilst he continues to employ them...in no way can that be blamed on the Chairman.

Alan #18..I think everyone BUT Moyes can see that Victor is awful and DEFINITELY NOT up to Premier League level

Obviously our great (hahaha...) manager thinks otherwise... apparently he is going to be a big player for us this season. If that is the case, prepare for The Championship cos it won't be too far off!!

Dave #1...I agree with the theory but to employ the style of play you are suggesting the players' 1st touch has to be very good..

With the majority of ours their 1st touch is so poor that their 2nd touch is usually a tackle cos they couldn't control it with their 1st.

Yes I totally agree that it's all about movement off the ball....something that is totally lacking in the majority of our players. Do you think that teams like Barca, Arsenal, Villerael etc are COACHED to play that way...I wonder...!!

We keep being told that we have one of the best managers/coaches in the business....I DON'T THINK SO !!!

Please ask ...Who would you replace him with...??

Well based not only on last night but also what I watched last season (La Liga-sunday nights...) and the style of play he employes I'd have Garrido before Moyes anyday of the week....and he hasn't got a side filled with stars either just competant fotballers who are all comfortable on the ball, can pass to one another and keep the ball.

I betchca he's not on £60+grand a week either....

I just couldn't understand the tactics at all, seemed really weird having Vic wide left and it's clear as day that Becks needs a striker playing with him.

Cahill never got in the game in any form and Neville looked shagged out when he moved to the right wing.

The players had no idea, just like a lot of last year.

New blood, not PAINT is needed ? even a loan or two would do... and Moyes is avoiding the after-match interviews like a bloke avoids his wife when he realises he's given her the clap... odd.

It's not that odd really John....He's obviously realised he will have to justify his team selections, tactics and style of play....and he CAN'T

Successor to Alex Ferguson....you must be jokin...if he went there the same would happen to Moyes as happened across the park to Hodgeson...won't last 6mths.

Great managers win trophies...so how can Moyes be a even considered as a great manager...10yrs and counting...!!

It's not that odd really John....He's obviously realised he will have to justify his team selections, tactics and style of play....and he CAN'T

Successor to Alex Ferguson....you must be jokin...if he went there the same would happen to Moyes as happened across the park to Hodgeson...won't last 6mths.

Great managers win trophies...so how can Moyes be a even considered as a great manager...10yrs and counting...!!

It's weird, Nelly.

I live a few miles outside Leeds and work in the centre of the city. If I talk to people at work about Moyes and mainly BK they think that Moyes is a genius and can't understand why I have any fault with his tactics. My answer is always "watch a game for 90 mins and you will see numerous things that seem to make NO sense"

But, still they think he's a football God.

I think we would be in a much worse place without him but find his decision-making at certain times terrible, and his constant belief in 4-5-1 at all times astounding.

Thankfully most of my non-Blue mates believe BK is a useless twat, just like their own "cuddly Ken Bates" or which ever numpty runs Sheffield Wednesday this week.

Couldn't agree more John

Moyes can be patted on the back for getting us from where we were to where we are but he's obviously run out of ideas and it's time to move on.He is tactically inept at Premiership level and his stlye of football is dire.

Constantly playing players out of position to accomdate them does neither the team or the player any favours and Moyes is a master at it. For example he must be the ONLY person who thinks Anichebe can play wide as I have not spoke with ANYBODY else who thinks he can offer something in that position (.... or any other position for that matter)....his only tactic seems to be try and nick a goal , then try and keep things tight and hope we don't concede...what type of game plan is that...His stratergy seems to be try not to get beaten,,,but most of the time he fails....

As I said in my earlier post Villereal have no stars to speak of just a coach who teaches his players todo 'the basics (pass & move)very well and play in a certain style...Style I would love to see at Everton but sadly one I know will never happen with Moyes in charge



A great manager....absolutely not in my eyes and I believe more and more people are begining to realise his limitations.

The Moyes argument is a non argument.

His supporters will agree with every criticism, they will usually preface their defence saying "I know he's dour, defensive, frustrating etc, etc" the only difference is they trot the excuses out.

If you think 3mil a year should get you someone who provides solutions rather than excuses you won't have it.

If David Moyes resigned from Everton he would not be employed by any team who finished above EFC last season. Where would he go, Spurs? I don't think so... Levy would never put up with his dire negative tactics. United, City, Chelsea, The Shite? Forget it!

So who the fuck will pay him £65k a week with no pressure? Why Billy Liar ? so long as he doesn't rock the boat.

GROW BALLS DAVIE BOY! TELL THE WORLD HOW IT REALLY IS. Billy Boy cannot afford to sack you.

Some of these comments are painting a very bad picture but look at the facts. How many times did Villareal get behind us? How many clear cut chances did they create? We second half couldn't get on the ball and never created many chances either but this is against a team who have qualified for the Champions League and have a player of the quality of Senna on the bench.

My guess is that against lots of European opponents they will have better technique and have more of the ball this does not mean they will run out easy winners.

The result apart which means fuck all, this is a good run out showing the players the levels that are needed to compete against quality European opposition in the Champions League.

Creativity is a worry but keeping clean sheets are more important as were always likely to score a goal during ninety minutes. I would like to see Howard control the penalty area more especially on corners were he never leaves his line and puts the defenders under big pressure not to be beaten in the air.

I would be more worried if we were playing in the Spanish League but the Premier League is a different ball game were most teams would be chasing the ball against a side as comfortable on the ball as Villareal.

Karl: Osterich... sand... burying... head springs to mind.

Our biggest problem next season will be scoring goals. Clean sheets are important but goals win you matches.

We could get 38 clean sheets next season but, if we do, I'll wager we will be playing in the Championship in 2012-13. Our style of play is awful.

"In the second half we couldn't get the ball..." sadly you seem to be ok with this... will you be so happy next week when the same occurs???

'Moyes, tactically inept at Premier League level'

What a stunning statement, and when you say this we're supposed to take the rest of what you say seriously? If you're going to criticise him don't lapse into this type of reactionary bullshit.

Look at Moyes's Premier League record ? the facts, in terms of league position ? and tell me if there is any other manager getting more out of his team. The only managers doing better are those with massive bank balances. Jeezus there is no promised land here, not for anyone outside of the rich top table. Stop kidding yourself.

See the bigger picture. Or at least bother to think about what you post before you press the enter button. It's comments like this which do my fuckin head in because theyre just so obviously complete bollocks.

Defend him all you like, John, I admire you for it... To me (and many others) Moyes's tactics and style of play are AWFUL.

The bigger picture I see is a one-paced team who are unable to pass to one another and regularly give the ball away. Tell me why does our captain regularly clip aimless balls into no-man's land to nobody in particular? And that's just for starters...

And before you tell me it's not the manager's fault ? he bought them all.

No pace, no width... and more alarmingly NOT MANY GOALS.

So it's complete bollocks for me to want my team to play in a style like our opponents on Friday night. No stars in their team to speak of, just competent footballers, all of whom are comfortable on the ball, who pass & move in such a way to help their team mates and thus allow them to dominate opponents in the way they dominated us... added to that their team was not put together for billions (in fact. not that many millions). Yes, on second thoughts, it's complete bollocks.

Do you think the way Villerreal played the other night might be down to their coach? Erm... I wonder... no no that must be complete bollocks !!

Yeh, I don't care what all his fellow managers say, all the respected journalists say and those 3 manager of the year awards show - this Moyes fella is clueless.
Give me strength - the bloke has gone 6 transfer windows without having anything to spend.

WTF has that got to do with the way he coaches the players and the style of play he adopts....

Stop making lack of cash the excuse for poor tactics and awul style of play.He bought all the players he has now (bar Hibbert) and he is responsible for the way the team plays.

If he is telling them to play in a style a la Villereal on Friday and our current squad cannot master the basics of passing and moving then they shouldn't be getting paid the vast amounts they do....if they cannot adhere to the indstructions of the manager then he shouldn't have signed them.

Roy Hodgson was a Manager of the Year recently wasn't he....

Thanks tactics man - when did you get your A license?
Though not.
And Roy Hodgson is doing quite well as I recall.

Nelly

You can't really detach results from tactics as ultimately our league position is the most immediate measure of our success/failure. If you're saying we could do better with a different approach then fair enough, but again you surely have to put this in the context of decent league positions over the years, and again on feck all money.

We can agree that he favours caution, and this can be deeply frustrating and bland at times, but we (and Moyes) can see the results of other teams attempts to be more attacking (at the cost of defence). 'Non money' teams often end up in trouble over the course of a season. The pattern here seems to be teams have some outstanding games or shine for period (eg, Sunderland and Bolton last season) but then get twatted and struggle once teams work them out. Moyes knows this.

We now have virtually nowhere to turn to add flair ? Piennar and Donovan in conjunction with a fully firing Arteta have given us this in recent times but he hasn't been allowed to replace those two and Arteta has never regained his form since injury. This and the absence of a decent striker I believe is a direct consequence of having no dosh.

We've had some good times in recent seasons when we've passed and moved and just overan teams. Coleman does a decent job of this, as he did in the first half this week, but once he'd gone we were basically knackered. What's a manager to do with so few resources? Three years since we spent any decent money? Jesus, who else has to put up with that?

I'd love us to play the quick pass-and-move game. Even when not attacking, that type of play is a joy to watch. Culturally English clubs aren't set up for this, apart from Arsenal with their French whinger, but if we could point to a manager who could give us that option I would support them. Any takers?

On reflection I overdid my earlier comments so apologies for that. For me all this shit is about context ? meaning our great club is dying due to English football being so top heavy. That and a clueless board who just arent up to it. Even to compete as 'best of the rest', hardly a lofty ambition, they have to do much more.

Nelly

Are Ferguson, Redknapp, Ancelotti all tatically inept because we beat or drew with their teams last season?

'We could get 38 clean sheets next season but, if we do, I'll wager we will be playing in the Championship in 2012-13'

We won't get 38 clean sheets but if we did we would qualify for the Champions League.

Fortunately, we won't play teams the standard of Villarreal too much next season and certainly not teams who will keep the ball like they do.

And by the way, every manager makes bad signings. Even the greatest of them all in Sir Alex Ferguson.

Nelly@40 yes scoring goals wins you games just like conceding them loses teams games, are present squad isn't capable of "you get four we will get five" and so keeping clean sheets is are best chance of success this season.

I would love to see great pass and move football on the carpet but trying to play that way just wont get the job done and my guess is that lots of that Villareal team would struggle over the course of a full Premier League season just like Rossi when he tried his luck.

Earlier you mentioned we should sign SWP i think that shows how different we think about football as i think you would need the steward in the Park End to open the exit gate to allow him to run home with the ball if he ever pulled on a blue shirt.

If we want to improve young hungry players who show potential and the youngsters would seem the way forward imo not other teams shite.

I also get frustrated with Moyes tactics at home games but have no problem at all with how we set up for away games, which is a formula that has worked and as such i can understand why Moyes persists with it. Playing infront of teams with no penetration giving teams to much time to get organised around the penalty area seems to be are biggest problem when trying to attack teams.

Nelly the way Villareal and others play is not all down to the coach almost all European players have better technique than English teams. English Clubs results in European competitions tells me that we do some things much better than most European Club sides.

Its eye catching football but as i said how many times did they get behind us or cut us to shreds and play through us? There goal came from a free kick which just shows how easy they found it to break us down. Infact we probably had as many clear goal scoring chances.

The way Villarreal play is not down to the coach... Oh My Lord!!

Dont get smart lad and name a Spanish team who doesn't play pass and move football or any other European team for that matter, they all depend on technique and movement.

Villareal looked a decent side in a friendly but there no world beaters and i dont see them challenging Barcelona or Real Madrid in Spain. Plus a lot of the time in Europe the Coach doesn't buy the players.

All Villareal done the other night was what Everton done at the likes of Villa Park last season plenty of posession but created in the main fuck all.

Karl...Garrido may not buy them but he sure as hell coaches em....Villereal created 'fuck all'... but won the game....Wish I could say the same for us over the past couple of seasons.

Sure it may have only been a 'friendly' but do you think that if it had been a competitive match...say in a UEFA competition... the result would have been different ?

They didn't create much...get behind us...whatever... because they didn't really have too...

oh by the way what was the score at Villa Park last season...?

If you are happy with the way Moyes sets up his teams and his stlye of of play then good for you....Personally it's not the way I believe the game should be played. All Villarreal did was do 'the basics' very very well....all I'm saying is that I wish Everton would do the same but we all know that will not happen under the current manager. If ALL European players are capable of playing that style (as you suggest) then it can't really be that difficult can it...??

I take it you're saying that British players are shit and not capable of doing 'the basics' well...??

Ryan... I think you missed the irony of my comments... If we keep 38 clean sheets but do not score goals then we will draw our games 0-0...which equals 38pts...38pts = Championship not Champions League...

Yes I agree even SAF makes a bad signing now and again but when he does he gets shut..asap. He doesn't try to accomodate them in positions they are not suited to just because he doesn't want to admit he's made a mistake....

I also take it that you're in Karl's corner and believe that British teams in the main are shite and don't compare to their european counterparts when it comes to technique and ability to keep the ball (aka 'the basics')...your comments would suggest as much.

John Ford....totally agree with your comments about the imcompetants that call themselves our Board of Directors.

I also agree that we have played some very good 'pass & move' football at times....Man City at home last season immediately springs to mind...but those occasion are all to rare.

My point is that we should try to play that style as much as we can. I'd rather us play the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal, The Shite, Chelsea etc, TRY to compete (...& TRY to win) and go doing fighting rather than sit back and wait to get twatted...as we normally do (especially away from home...)

In 10 years Moyes has failed to win ONE EPL match away from home against the so-called Big Four...that's cos he shites himself, doesn't really believe we can win, so tries not to get beaten but more often than not we do....get beaten that is. Some of those away performances especially at Anfield have been embarrassing (particularly the one when they only had 10 men) so why not have a go??

IMO had Moyes adopted a more positive approach especially against the likes of Blackburn, Bolton, Newcastle, Reading, WBA, Wigan, Wolves etc (particularly at home) the we could and probably WOULD have won alot more games & points over the past couple of seasons.

I also believe (as do many many others) that throughout his entire reign this team has cried out for PACE & WIDTH and Moyes has NEVER addressed this...He has had money to spend during his time but what did he do with his last lot...he spent £10mil on Bily...enough said. I would't be surprised if Kenwright does't want to give him anymore money based on that signing. Moyes has bought ALL of the current squad(except Hibbert).

I really do believe that if he was more agressive and attacking in his approach then we could and already probably would have won a trophy or two by now....

At Stamford Bridge (Carling Cup) if he had been more adventurous we would have come away with at least a draw (possibly more) but what did he do...equalised and then he sat back and we conceeded in the last minute...everyone in the ground new what was coming except for Moyes.

Then at Goodison in the return leg to be 3-1 down in a semi-final and not have a shot at goal until the 90th minute is just not acceptable to me ...and if you were at that game you must agree that Moyes tactics and style of play lost us that game not the lack of ability with the players.

At 1-2 we were still in it but he never even tried to attack them... What did he have to lose...? If we didn't score we were out anyway....The same happened at Wembley... how the hell can any team 'score too early'...as was the excuse given by many... utter rubbish.

That said, I do think that you have given me a very good insight on your own opinion and I think we can agree on some points and agree to disagree on others.... As they say it's all about opinions mate.

Karl... I would also like to point out that before Guiardiola took over, Barcelona had (in the main) the same squad as they have now... However, they played a totally different style under Rijkaard.

It was only when Pep came in that they started to p... do you think that has any thing tolay and DOMINATE football they way they are doing at the moment do with the COACH at all...!!

Karl...I would also like to point out that before Guiardiola took over, Barcelona had (in the main) the same squad as they have now...However they played a totally different style under Rijkaard.

It was only when Pep came in that they started to play their current style and DOMINATE football they way they are doing at the moment.

Do you think that has anything to do with the COACH at all...!!