Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Dead on Our Feet
83 Comments: Editor's Note: As I scanned the following submission from our old warhorse, Mr Marsh, I couldn't help feeling that he was scrapping away, once more, at the bottom of his own particular barrel when it comes to comment on Everton and his particular nemesis ? David Moyes.
Now, I'm admittedly not the Manager's No 1 fan by any means... but, by the time I got to the end of yet another entirely predictable diatribe ? complete with the now requisite and increasingly laughable "I can't be arsed any more" ? I had decided this was not worthy of publication.
However, with the postponement of the Spurs game, and another week now added to this painfully hollow and depressing pre-season... made only worse by the cause of and reasons for that postponement ? I can't think of any better way to punish the perpetrators of those crimes than subjecting them just one more time to the polarizing prose of our Master Agitator... Tony Marsh!
Qualification for the Champions League places after the 2004-05 season now seems a long long time ago doesn't it? Even back then, some of us had our resevations about Moyes, Kenwright and the direction the club was headed. It now appears, after all this time, the fanbase has wised-up to the fact that we are a poorly run club and abysmally managed at all levels ? including on the pitch.
It has taken a while for most to wake up to the real issues that affect us now from the poor mismanagement of the past. David Moyes is as much to blame as Bill Kenwright for the pile of shit we are now up to our necks in! Moyes just keeps on picking up his wage packet and says and does fuck all as the club heads into oblivion. Some manager Moyes is! Where's his backbone, his pride, or his voice for the ordinary man in the street? The fans want and expect more from the Everton of Everton FC.
I have never seen our support so demoralised, apathetic and worn down as they are now. The atmosphere in the ground is like a morgue which in turn reflects on Moyes. It's his team and his persona that makes us what we are... Grim and depressing to watch with no ambition. If Moyes had any ambition, he wouldn't still be at this club, would he...?
Fans are turning their backs in droves as it becomes easier to give up on the Blues than to continue supporting a club that is being run in to the ground. Basically, the whole lot of us ? Manager, Players Chairman and supporters ? have chucked in the towel and no-one has a clue what to do next.
Other clubs we have tried to keep up with in the League now have so much money to spend that it's now become pointless trying to compete with them... An exercise in futility is what I see it as.
I got asked to go to Spurs at the weekend but I refused. What for? What's the point? Win, Lose or draw ? nothing will change. To be honest, I can't be arsed any more. I'm sick of feeling conned and sick of being lied to. I'm sick of watching the hilarious Zombie football and feeling ashamed of my team's displays.
It won't be getting any better soon either. Virtually every club in the country has had at least one takeover and a new Stadium built in the last 15 years but not us... WHY? Are we less attractive a proposistion as the likes of Boro, Bolton, Sunderland, Wolves etc??? Even poxy Leicster City have got new owners and money to spend!! How can this be???
Frustration has turned to apathy... which has turned to anger, which is now leading fans turn away. The truth is the club no longer earns or deserves our support and that's how many feel. It's a feeling that is eating away at the core of our support and destroying the heart and soul.
The moment David Moyes wants to stand up for the long-suffering fans and stop hiding behind his lackie Round, I might start to respect the man. Until then, Moyes is a spineless Yes-man without a care in the world and all those out there who sing his name at matches are no different to me... Blind leading the Blind?!?
Who would take over they ask? A Poyet-Wilkins combination would do me just fine. Ian Hollaway even. Any fucker is better than what we have now surely... That Deaf, Dumb and Blind Kid sure does a real fuck all...
Moyes ? sling your hook back to Scotland and let's breathe some life back into the club while we still can... Then again, what soft twat would pay you £75 large a week to win or do nothing?
Tony Marsh, Posted 10/08/2011 at 13:35:56
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
"Qualification for the Champions League places after the 2004-05 season now seems a long long time ago doesn't it? Even back then, some of us had our resevations about Moyes".
This is why so many on here don't take your opinion seriously.
Clearly you have a personal dislike for the man that means you can't judge him anything like objectively.
Keeping that side up would have been a remarkable achievement, never mind finishing in the top 4.
You blame everything in the world for our demise including money yet, put the blame at Moyes door? Why is it his fault were skint?
You could argue developing players is the only reason were not completely bust.
With three players he's signed, Jag, Fellaini and Arteta we could all but clear our debt and still stay up.
There's a load of reasons you could pull Moyes for, ppor starts etc. but you have chosen a load of reasons out of his control.
Like I said your obvious hatred of him means your blaming him for everything, You'll be saying it's his fault the games off next.
This is why so many on here don't take your opinion seriously.
Clearly you have a personal dislike for the man that means you can't judge him anything like objectively.
Keeping that side up would have been a remarkable achievement, never mind finishing in the top 4.
You blame everything in the world for our demise including money yet, put the blame at Moyes door? Why is it his fault were skint?
You could argue developing players is the only reason were not completely bust.
With three players he's signed, Jag, Fellaini and Arteta we could all but clear our debt and still stay up.
There's a load of reasons you could pull Moyes for, ppor starts etc. but you have chosen a load of reasons out of his control.
Like I said your obvious hatred of him means your blaming him for everything, You'll be saying it's his fault the games off next.
What is this crap about Zombie football. A more accurate description would be effective football or competitive football.
Ye lets get Holloway and we can all watch exciting football in the championship, great idea.
Ye lets get Holloway and we can all watch exciting football in the championship, great idea.
Can't argue with the title. For me, we do seem ' Dead on our feet '
I often wondered why our average attendance stayed the same when thousands were telling us they were staying away . .then realised it was the same few people telling us thousands of times.
Drama Queens.
Drama Queens.
Ian, that's such a week assesment, look at the squads of Blackpool and Everton... if Holloway had this Everton team, I'm sure we would play much more attacking football. We might not win anything but we wouldn't get relegated either... at least we would look forward to 4-3 victories, and actually attacking the big teams.
If I had a choice, I'd rather Holloway.
What a wretched post. Go get laid for fucks sake..
Tony.
I have only one question.
If you 'couldn't be arsed anymore'
Why bother taking the time to write this article then?
For someone who says he does not care you have a funny way of showing it. Every time you write an article here you vent the exact same frustation and anger. You also say you are giving up on Everton.
If thats the case fine then give up. You do know to give on something means cutting all ties with it. Not to continue writing article after article.
I have only one question.
If you 'couldn't be arsed anymore'
Why bother taking the time to write this article then?
For someone who says he does not care you have a funny way of showing it. Every time you write an article here you vent the exact same frustation and anger. You also say you are giving up on Everton.
If thats the case fine then give up. You do know to give on something means cutting all ties with it. Not to continue writing article after article.
I agree Moyes and Kenwright are just not good enough for us and I keep praying Moyes will change his tatics,if he did what a difference it would make to our results. One thing I do not agree with is turning my back on everton, so here we go again coyb's
I certainly don't hate Moyes.
Have less time for him now than I did a few years ago, but I certainly don't think he's a bad human being.
I mean I don't KNOW him, but would guess he's probably a decent sort.
Not much flair or imagination but a decent skin probably.
That said, I agree with just about every word of the post.
Or put it another way, if what Tony wishes for actually happened, he wouldn't be the only one chuffed.
Have less time for him now than I did a few years ago, but I certainly don't think he's a bad human being.
I mean I don't KNOW him, but would guess he's probably a decent sort.
Not much flair or imagination but a decent skin probably.
That said, I agree with just about every word of the post.
Or put it another way, if what Tony wishes for actually happened, he wouldn't be the only one chuffed.
I can't be arsed replying...
Oh shit!
Oh shit!
I have a few bones to pick with Moyes, but this is pathetic.
You're just a dissatisfied, disheartened and depressed supporter who wants to pick a fight with something tangible.
I have no problem with that. There are plenty of depressed Evertonians about, but really, pick on BK.
Moyes is new messiah, and he is by no means the best in the business, but I do think he is one of the 'better' managers around.
Until we become attractive (i.e. have a new stadium and a bit of dosh for signings) I doubt we could get in anyone better than Moyes.
You're just a dissatisfied, disheartened and depressed supporter who wants to pick a fight with something tangible.
I have no problem with that. There are plenty of depressed Evertonians about, but really, pick on BK.
Moyes is new messiah, and he is by no means the best in the business, but I do think he is one of the 'better' managers around.
Until we become attractive (i.e. have a new stadium and a bit of dosh for signings) I doubt we could get in anyone better than Moyes.
Tony, there are some valid points in there and I understand your frustration. Maybe I'm being hypocrital here but I don't see it as black and white as you. I fear you have piled it too much once too often.
Compliment him/the team when they do well, criticise them when he/the team do poorly. I often find that helps, instead of waiting to find something to rant about.
Tony, you will never leave behind "Everton" because it is far bigger than Moyes and Kenwright. You know that deep down and like that bastard Stella Artois, you will always return to it.
Tony, you will never leave behind "Everton" because it is far bigger than Moyes and Kenwright. You know that deep down and like that bastard Stella Artois, you will always return to it.
Sean i could say the same thing. If Moyes was manager of the Arsenal or Man Utd team 'I'm sure we would play much more attacking football.'
And i think the most exciting game Blackpool had was probably against Everton. I bet Holloway would say Everton was the most attacking team he played all season.
My opinion of the Moyes brand of football is that most of the teams we played tried to stifle us and 'park the bus' as it where, we just didnt have the cutting edge to break the teams down, especially early on in the season. It didnt work so we got more direct, and the results started to happen for us.
Moyes is paid first and foremost to get results and get Everton as high up the league as possible. Entertainment comes 2nd.
My opinion of the Moyes brand of football is that most of the teams we played tried to stifle us and 'park the bus' as it where, we just didnt have the cutting edge to break the teams down, especially early on in the season. It didnt work so we got more direct, and the results started to happen for us.
Moyes is paid first and foremost to get results and get Everton as high up the league as possible. Entertainment comes 2nd.
Absolute drivel, but then again looking at the source i'm not surprised.
Michael,
You should have stuck to your original view that it was not worthy of publication.
Tony,
Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out you miserable sod.
Michael,
You should have stuck to your original view that it was not worthy of publication.
Tony,
Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out you miserable sod.
Tony, those long winter nights must fly by in your house.
David Thomas what you probably pay in ten years for your season tickets I've been paying in a season, now and for the past 15 years. It's about £7k a year.
It's not the absolute tripe served up on the pitch or the dour twat in charge who is untouchable ? or even the hopless chairman who is pushing me away ? it's the whole of football in general. I don't see the point in such a one-sided, lob-sided game any more. If you think things will get better... they won't. We might as well go out of existence tomorrow than watch us slowly die and fade away. That's what Kenwright and Moyes are allowing to happen... but as long as your happy ? Sound.
We cannot continue in the present sorry state and if the fans won't stand up and be counted by withdrawing their support then all's left is to wither and die slowly... I don't want any part of that and I don't want to sit next to people who do.
We will never amount to fuck all while the fans sit back and lap the shit up.
It's not the absolute tripe served up on the pitch or the dour twat in charge who is untouchable ? or even the hopless chairman who is pushing me away ? it's the whole of football in general. I don't see the point in such a one-sided, lob-sided game any more. If you think things will get better... they won't. We might as well go out of existence tomorrow than watch us slowly die and fade away. That's what Kenwright and Moyes are allowing to happen... but as long as your happy ? Sound.
We cannot continue in the present sorry state and if the fans won't stand up and be counted by withdrawing their support then all's left is to wither and die slowly... I don't want any part of that and I don't want to sit next to people who do.
We will never amount to fuck all while the fans sit back and lap the shit up.
Tony Marsh you say it the way many of us used to - and I agree.
Pre-Moyes, when we reached "Ground Walter", I was quite incredulous about the possibility of relegation but I wouldn't bet against it this or next season ? the decline just carries on... bedding in among the also rans is success at "Moyes Everton" these days.
Hardly anyone at the club seems worried, including the fans, the media beatification of Moyes is such that as long as he remains ? why worry?
We were poorer than usual last year ? regardless of league position ? and, with a pre-season promising the same we desperately need something different just to maintain our status among the more adventurous make-weights.
But it all just sort of... well... sorts itself out at Everton doesn't it?
Perhaps, when we could guarantee even more dross around us, yes, but is that still the case?
We are a slow, unskilled side with no strength in depth, neither exceptional in attack or defence, dangerously content in the twilight betwixt 6th and relegation and bereft of ambition unlike pack members such as Stoke, Sunderland we have classic delusional symptoms of the "too big to go down" club.
A busted flush of a board, an ageing team, a few "not arsed" foreigners and a visionless manager ? the northwest's very own West Ham.
My kopite son-in-law has just told me we're in the bookies bottom 5 for this year... "optimistic bookies", I thought.
Pre-Moyes, when we reached "Ground Walter", I was quite incredulous about the possibility of relegation but I wouldn't bet against it this or next season ? the decline just carries on... bedding in among the also rans is success at "Moyes Everton" these days.
Hardly anyone at the club seems worried, including the fans, the media beatification of Moyes is such that as long as he remains ? why worry?
We were poorer than usual last year ? regardless of league position ? and, with a pre-season promising the same we desperately need something different just to maintain our status among the more adventurous make-weights.
But it all just sort of... well... sorts itself out at Everton doesn't it?
Perhaps, when we could guarantee even more dross around us, yes, but is that still the case?
We are a slow, unskilled side with no strength in depth, neither exceptional in attack or defence, dangerously content in the twilight betwixt 6th and relegation and bereft of ambition unlike pack members such as Stoke, Sunderland we have classic delusional symptoms of the "too big to go down" club.
A busted flush of a board, an ageing team, a few "not arsed" foreigners and a visionless manager ? the northwest's very own West Ham.
My kopite son-in-law has just told me we're in the bookies bottom 5 for this year... "optimistic bookies", I thought.
Stephen Kenny ? if you knew a little about Everton FC you would know Moyes reached 4th place back then with Wally Smith's side:
Martyn
Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Naysmith
Osman, Arteta, Kilbane, Bent, Carsley
Ferguson
Martyn
Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Naysmith
Osman, Arteta, Kilbane, Bent, Carsley
Ferguson
Cahill being the only Moyes signing amongst the team that started nearly every week....????
'My kopite son-in-law has just told me we're in the bookies bottom 5 for this year ? " optimistic bookies", I thought'
Maybe he is winding you up because there are 13 teams according to the bookies who are more likely to get relegated.
If you like, as you are so confident we will go down, I'll bet you £100 to the charity of your choice that we won't ? if you agree to the same for me?
Moyes has already said we need some investment so why all this 'he doesn't care' bullshit?
Stop talking bollocks because it makes you look a right tit.
Good to see Tony Marsh making sweeping statements like "Basically, the whole lot of us ? Manager, Players Chairman and supporters ? have chucked in the towel."
What a crock of shite.
Maybe he is winding you up because there are 13 teams according to the bookies who are more likely to get relegated.
If you like, as you are so confident we will go down, I'll bet you £100 to the charity of your choice that we won't ? if you agree to the same for me?
Moyes has already said we need some investment so why all this 'he doesn't care' bullshit?
Stop talking bollocks because it makes you look a right tit.
Good to see Tony Marsh making sweeping statements like "Basically, the whole lot of us ? Manager, Players Chairman and supporters ? have chucked in the towel."
What a crock of shite.
How exactly are Sunderland showing more ambition than us?
They have bought in a load of players through the sale of their 2 best players.
If Everton had done this, ie, sold say Baines and Fellaini and brought in Wes Brown, John O'Shea and David Vaughan etc, people would have been slating them.
They have bought in a load of players through the sale of their 2 best players.
If Everton had done this, ie, sold say Baines and Fellaini and brought in Wes Brown, John O'Shea and David Vaughan etc, people would have been slating them.
Michael...give Tony my email address or vice-versa. Cheers, Paul
As my grandad used to say, "a man who sits still, goes nowhere".
That's exactly what OUR club is doing at the moment: sitting still, and going nowhere.
That's exactly what OUR club is doing at the moment: sitting still, and going nowhere.
I just want them to do something so I have something to talk about down the pub. Sack someone, buy someone, change something FFS.... just bleeding compete.
We have become so fucking boring under Moyes, it's unbearable....!
Yeah Wolves, Stoke, Boro, Sunderland and even poxy Leicester have been taken over.
But have any of them finished 4th in the Premiership?
Have any of them been a consistant Top 7 side for the best part of a decade?
Have any of them enjoyed regular European football?
Do any of them have a manager who has won Manager-of-the-season not once but twice?
Grow up Tony. Your boring us.
But have any of them finished 4th in the Premiership?
Have any of them been a consistant Top 7 side for the best part of a decade?
Have any of them enjoyed regular European football?
Do any of them have a manager who has won Manager-of-the-season not once but twice?
Grow up Tony. Your boring us.
The usual load of old shite......
Even if we spent £70m on the type of average shite that shower have bought this pre-season, we'd not win the league.
Be happy that mMoyes is keeping us up ? remember 6th or 7th this season would be considered a success for a club like Everton.
We're not the force we once were / should have been, so get used to it. We're skint yeah, but still in business after all...
Just hope we have another decent Cup run or it'll be another run-of-the-mill season.
Even if we spent £70m on the type of average shite that shower have bought this pre-season, we'd not win the league.
Be happy that mMoyes is keeping us up ? remember 6th or 7th this season would be considered a success for a club like Everton.
We're not the force we once were / should have been, so get used to it. We're skint yeah, but still in business after all...
Just hope we have another decent Cup run or it'll be another run-of-the-mill season.
David Thomas @21
How exactly are Sunderland showing more ambition than us?
They have bought in a load of players through the sale of their 2 best players.
It everton had done this ie sold say Baines and Fellaini and brought in Wes Brown, John O'Shea and David Vaughan etc people would have been slating them
David people would not have had the opportunity to slate them for those type of signings because, as have we have seen in the past, that money would have been re-directed into the 'Other operating costs' fund.
How exactly are Sunderland showing more ambition than us?
They have bought in a load of players through the sale of their 2 best players.
It everton had done this ie sold say Baines and Fellaini and brought in Wes Brown, John O'Shea and David Vaughan etc people would have been slating them
David people would not have had the opportunity to slate them for those type of signings because, as have we have seen in the past, that money would have been re-directed into the 'Other operating costs' fund.
Ian Tunstead
You make a good point. People prefer to forget that, at the start of last season, we were at the bottom of the league but at the top in terms of possession. In some games we created chances but our failure to buy the top class striker to complete the team meant us missing them and losing games. Some games, especially at home, sides parked the bus and we did not have the guile to break them down. The purchase of a wide right sided player may have solved this problem.
You make a good point. People prefer to forget that, at the start of last season, we were at the bottom of the league but at the top in terms of possession. In some games we created chances but our failure to buy the top class striker to complete the team meant us missing them and losing games. Some games, especially at home, sides parked the bus and we did not have the guile to break them down. The purchase of a wide right sided player may have solved this problem.
Come January, we were in a real mess, confidence was low and relegation a real possibility. Moyes changes tactics, becomes more direct and we start winning games. Moyes wants to play good football; he saw the opportunity last summer, but failure to buy in those 2 key positions meant that it did not work out. BK's fault for not backing the manager.
Ryan @ 20
I'm gettin 25/1 on paddy power what can you offer ?
I'm gettin 25/1 on paddy power what can you offer ?
Oh dear you sad depressed old man. Have you been to a psychiatrist? Im serious... you need to.
I detect emotion here! Now I for one don't agree at all with Moyes's tactics and team pickings, but I still think he can do better than last year. I am worried about his mood and motivation though. Seems like he has given up talking to the press and to the fans, this is not a People's Club, this is Moyes's ego club. His ego is bigger than ever and he feels above us all, and this to me is a provocation to fans and Bill Kenwright.
I wouldn't complain if Moyes had actually gone out on the official website like he did years ago and started talking to the fans of this wonderful club, he would have a lot more sympathy if he did talk about what he wants for this club and what he thinks he can achive.
I am angry with Moyes for protesting, giving us the silent treatment and being as arrogant as Kenwright is. After all, he is paid by us, the fans, so he'd better switch moods or he will be thrown out by the fans so fast that his head will spin!!!
I am not the only person who is aware of his silence throughout this pre-season. And I will not be the last one either.
I wouldn't complain if Moyes had actually gone out on the official website like he did years ago and started talking to the fans of this wonderful club, he would have a lot more sympathy if he did talk about what he wants for this club and what he thinks he can achive.
I am angry with Moyes for protesting, giving us the silent treatment and being as arrogant as Kenwright is. After all, he is paid by us, the fans, so he'd better switch moods or he will be thrown out by the fans so fast that his head will spin!!!
I am not the only person who is aware of his silence throughout this pre-season. And I will not be the last one either.
I guess he feels he is better off giving us the silent treatment than spouting all the positive spin comming from the club. The bullshit just isn't him. If he tells the truth, he will just piss off those supporters who are living in the positive fantasy land, and just make things worse at this time. Has anybody else heared the rumour that he is not talking to Kenwright?
I feel Tony's pain. I'm pissed off that after the failings obvious in the cup final, we will more than likely see Hibbert and Osman line up on the right again this season.
But as Ian (#3) says Moyes' style is effective. We've not lost back to back games since November 2009. This is the best record out of any other team in the Premier League.
We know what we're getting this season. We'll play badly and lose. We'll play well and lose. We'll play well and win and play badly and win. We'll see us lose having had 60% possession. We'll win having played hoofball. We'll play for a nil-nil at Man U. We'll draw with the RS and be denied a stone wall penalty that would have won us the game. Osman will play well and seem like out saviour then he'll be shite again. Saha will seem like the best striker in the world then get injured. Cahill will hit form then get injured playing for Australia. Arteta will still not get his corners past the first man.
It's very very predictable. We'll finish 7th. The reason it's predictable is because there is no investment in the squad. There is nothing to freshen the team up. We need a winger and a striker. We won't get them and our season will pan out exactly the same as the last 2 seasons.
But as Ian (#3) says Moyes' style is effective. We've not lost back to back games since November 2009. This is the best record out of any other team in the Premier League.
We know what we're getting this season. We'll play badly and lose. We'll play well and lose. We'll play well and win and play badly and win. We'll see us lose having had 60% possession. We'll win having played hoofball. We'll play for a nil-nil at Man U. We'll draw with the RS and be denied a stone wall penalty that would have won us the game. Osman will play well and seem like out saviour then he'll be shite again. Saha will seem like the best striker in the world then get injured. Cahill will hit form then get injured playing for Australia. Arteta will still not get his corners past the first man.
It's very very predictable. We'll finish 7th. The reason it's predictable is because there is no investment in the squad. There is nothing to freshen the team up. We need a winger and a striker. We won't get them and our season will pan out exactly the same as the last 2 seasons.
Robert 26,
Like when we sold Lescott. Oh hang on a minite we went out and spent the money on Distin, Heitinga and Billy.
I wish people would stop re-writing history in order to suit their agenda.
Like when we sold Lescott. Oh hang on a minite we went out and spent the money on Distin, Heitinga and Billy.
I wish people would stop re-writing history in order to suit their agenda.
Reading some of the barely credible posts I think people should classify themselves when posting:
A: Ex Pro or non league player
B: Represented the school
C: 20 in the playground - you got picked in the last 10
D: Never kicked a ball
I'm B.
I believe 90% are C or D judging by the comments
A: Ex Pro or non league player
B: Represented the school
C: 20 in the playground - you got picked in the last 10
D: Never kicked a ball
I'm B.
I believe 90% are C or D judging by the comments
Trevor
As I said, if you're that confident that you want to bet on your OWN team getting relegated, have a £100 bet with me and winner gives the money to charity.
As I said, if you're that confident that you want to bet on your OWN team getting relegated, have a £100 bet with me and winner gives the money to charity.
So what Trevor? Are you less entitled to a view if you're disabled?
David Thomas@33
Like when we sold Lescott. Oh hang on a minite we went out and spent the money on Distin, Heitinga and Billy.
I wish people would stop re-writing history in order to suit their agenda.
David what about when we sold
Steven Piennar £2.5M
James Vaughan £2M
who did we spend that money on
Like when we sold Lescott. Oh hang on a minite we went out and spent the money on Distin, Heitinga and Billy.
I wish people would stop re-writing history in order to suit their agenda.
David what about when we sold
Steven Piennar £2.5M
James Vaughan £2M
who did we spend that money on
Trevor,
I'm A and your talking shite. What's athletic ability got to do with your understanding of the game?
Theres plenty of top level pro's who are spouting shite or have failed at management to prove I'm right
I'm A and your talking shite. What's athletic ability got to do with your understanding of the game?
Theres plenty of top level pro's who are spouting shite or have failed at management to prove I'm right
Trevor
What are you trying to say. Tell us what it is you don't agree with and back up your argument with some good reasoning, or evidence if you can find it.
What are you trying to say. Tell us what it is you don't agree with and back up your argument with some good reasoning, or evidence if you can find it.
Robert,
Fair point.
What i would say is that everton have been criticised heavily on this site for what people percieve to be a sell to buy policy. We have been told numerous times on site that this is a terrible strategy and we should not be working to a business model such as this.
However, Sunderland have used this policy ie sold Henderson and Bent and bought in a large number of players with the money.
Now you know as well as i do that if everton were to sell Baines and Fellaini and bring in these players they would be slated.
However, as you have identified there is instances when they have not invested the money they have recieved straight away, but i think you would agree that there have been instances when they have ie Lescott's sale.
Trevor,
I'm intrigued by your post. Care to enlighten us to what point your trying to make?
Fair point.
What i would say is that everton have been criticised heavily on this site for what people percieve to be a sell to buy policy. We have been told numerous times on site that this is a terrible strategy and we should not be working to a business model such as this.
However, Sunderland have used this policy ie sold Henderson and Bent and bought in a large number of players with the money.
Now you know as well as i do that if everton were to sell Baines and Fellaini and bring in these players they would be slated.
However, as you have identified there is instances when they have not invested the money they have recieved straight away, but i think you would agree that there have been instances when they have ie Lescott's sale.
Trevor,
I'm intrigued by your post. Care to enlighten us to what point your trying to make?
Ryan are you matching the 25/1 odds or what?
Why should I bet a ton against a ton when I can get 2500?are you up for it? prefer to give it to you than paddy power
Alan Clarke - sorry of course not, but I used to watch my Father as a joiner it doesn't make me as good as him judging a good joiner - no offence.
Steven you played for Everton...am I right....circa 70's? I agree about nob pros in the media, but are you saying Moyes gets the best out of his players?
Graham, christ man I've just put a post above.
Why should I bet a ton against a ton when I can get 2500?are you up for it? prefer to give it to you than paddy power
Alan Clarke - sorry of course not, but I used to watch my Father as a joiner it doesn't make me as good as him judging a good joiner - no offence.
Steven you played for Everton...am I right....circa 70's? I agree about nob pros in the media, but are you saying Moyes gets the best out of his players?
Graham, christ man I've just put a post above.
Trevor # 28
Stop making a fool of yourself. Everton @ 25/1 to go down is the equivalent of saying they will finish 7th!! You are obviously not a betting man - no bad thing.
Stop making a fool of yourself. Everton @ 25/1 to go down is the equivalent of saying they will finish 7th!! You are obviously not a betting man - no bad thing.
Buying players is not the answer but getting players who will play as part of a team and knuckle down to the job in hand is. Yes, they have to be quick and skilled but not individuals who want to break a contract as soon as they get substituted or homesick whatever!
Moyes may have done all he can with this squad and in the absence financing he may not ever be able to move on. We can only hope that certain younger players mature quickly and that some of the better established ones help them along so that good results will come. Let's see how the first ten games go before we call for heads to roll.p>I feel sure that the powers to be will not stand for a start like last season.
Brendan @ 42
Have you looked?
Haven't you mistakenly jumped in before?
"Moyes's boys" an' all that guff.
Have you looked?
Haven't you mistakenly jumped in before?
"Moyes's boys" an' all that guff.
The main problem with Tony's post is the timing. Had it come,say,after a hiding at Totteham, well, he'd be the leader of the revoluton again.
Dave @ 40
Whilst awaiting various replies can I answer you.
When I was a lad and a gang of us would go to Goodison the lads who could play were of a similar opinion about players - the basics of control, passing, heading were taken as read, a good player was creative could beat people essentially was a forward player.
Lads who weren't as good tended to not be as discriminating.
I wonder if the lack of football playing fan has resulted in people spouting vicariously the Sky sports drivel which has it's own agenda namely everything is marvellous, everywhere - I don't agree, and I could play.
Whilst awaiting various replies can I answer you.
When I was a lad and a gang of us would go to Goodison the lads who could play were of a similar opinion about players - the basics of control, passing, heading were taken as read, a good player was creative could beat people essentially was a forward player.
Lads who weren't as good tended to not be as discriminating.
I wonder if the lack of football playing fan has resulted in people spouting vicariously the Sky sports drivel which has it's own agenda namely everything is marvellous, everywhere - I don't agree, and I could play.
andy 45
Correct, then most of the above would be saying "yeh, moyes haters - no opinion before"......and all the other incorrect phrases that soothes them.
Correct, then most of the above would be saying "yeh, moyes haters - no opinion before"......and all the other incorrect phrases that soothes them.
Trevor,
Do you really think we are going to get relegated?
Did you not learn from when we had every man and his dog saying we would get relegated at xmas last season. It amazes me how people come on here state we are going to get relegated and then when we end up no where near the relegation zone come the end of the season people seem to conveniently forget their previous statements.
Do you really think we are going to get relegated?
Did you not learn from when we had every man and his dog saying we would get relegated at xmas last season. It amazes me how people come on here state we are going to get relegated and then when we end up no where near the relegation zone come the end of the season people seem to conveniently forget their previous statements.
We might as well forward Tony's post to Everton and to the Premier League and tell them that its fans concede and would rather play in the Championship because a lot of fans are disillusioned and don't care anymore.
This post and some or a lot of the replies border on insanity.
Not one competitive ball kicked and already we have written our season off completely and people are already talking about relegation. It's bloody stupid.
Ok, so we have spent nothing and our board is a disgrace. We have a manager who looks like he has run out of ideas. But come on, really ? relegation? Seriously?
We spend feck all last season and still finished in a decent position. While teams like Sunderland and Fulham and even the prem new boys spent buckets of cash on players.
I expect most of these teams to fail again with their overspending. Ok maybe we may finish slightly lower but it is what we all expect.
We all want better for our club and we all have opinions of how it should be but being defeatest and bickering with each other over regurgitated points is madness.
This post and some or a lot of the replies border on insanity.
Not one competitive ball kicked and already we have written our season off completely and people are already talking about relegation. It's bloody stupid.
Ok, so we have spent nothing and our board is a disgrace. We have a manager who looks like he has run out of ideas. But come on, really ? relegation? Seriously?
We spend feck all last season and still finished in a decent position. While teams like Sunderland and Fulham and even the prem new boys spent buckets of cash on players.
I expect most of these teams to fail again with their overspending. Ok maybe we may finish slightly lower but it is what we all expect.
We all want better for our club and we all have opinions of how it should be but being defeatest and bickering with each other over regurgitated points is madness.
David Thomas
Cool your heels!!
I said I wouldn't bet against it in the next 2 seasons for the reason outlined ie
Busted flush of a board, etc (it's above)
An opinion - don't get yourself worked up - ooo-errr
Cool your heels!!
I said I wouldn't bet against it in the next 2 seasons for the reason outlined ie
Busted flush of a board, etc (it's above)
An opinion - don't get yourself worked up - ooo-errr
Trevor,
Didn't think i was getting worked up to be honest.
How do you fancy having a bet with me about whether we are going to go down in the next two seasons, with the money going to charity?
If your up for it what odds are we working on etc?
Didn't think i was getting worked up to be honest.
How do you fancy having a bet with me about whether we are going to go down in the next two seasons, with the money going to charity?
If your up for it what odds are we working on etc?
David what about when we sold
Steven Piennar £2.5M
James Vaughan £2M
Who did we spend that money on?
You can add £1.5M for Lucas Neill, plus loan fees for Yobo, Vaughan and Yakubu, plus the wages saved on them.
Steven Piennar £2.5M
James Vaughan £2M
Who did we spend that money on?
You can add £1.5M for Lucas Neill, plus loan fees for Yobo, Vaughan and Yakubu, plus the wages saved on them.
Add £8M for Bellefield, £11M from Kitbag and £12M from Chang to that list... that is nearly £40M the club has taken in since January (except Neill) not taking into account gate reciepts, prize money and TV money!!
And they say we are skint!! Someone is making mugs out of us big time, the lack of spending in the last 3-4 years should have left us with near zero debt, not £45M and rising.
Anyone who blames Moyes cannot see the woods for the trees, seriously, my only grievance against Moyes is he should have walked out a few years ago; glad he didn't as we would be playing West Ham this season.
BK is a stooge, has hampered our club no end, he ain't no Blue to me.
Fans, stand up at the QPR game and chant the man out, like we used to in the 70s. Enough of his bullshit to last a lifetime, and to think PJ got hounded out for doing less than 10% of the shit BK has done.
Many times Trevor but what what planet are you on! The bookies make Everton 7th favourites to win the Premier League which translates into 25/1 AGAINST going down! (I don't know why but I felt I should spell that out for you.)
Tell me I'm wrong...
dave
I've never betted on anything in my life mate - I'm too tight - I won't take up your kind offer. (even if you won't give 25/1 - joking)
It's a genuine concern of mine, like yourself I hope I'm wrong but we're going backwards from last year whilst others are trying to go forward.
Sooner or later we'll run out of clubs worse than us - it's not sustainable and it shouldn't be a gameplan for Everton FC.
I've never betted on anything in my life mate - I'm too tight - I won't take up your kind offer. (even if you won't give 25/1 - joking)
It's a genuine concern of mine, like yourself I hope I'm wrong but we're going backwards from last year whilst others are trying to go forward.
Sooner or later we'll run out of clubs worse than us - it's not sustainable and it shouldn't be a gameplan for Everton FC.
Thomas,
Are you sure that since January of this year everton have received a payment off Chang of £12 million and £11 million of kitbag. I must admit that is news to me.
Can anyone else confirm that we have had an injection of cash of £23 million in two transactions in the last 8 months?
Are you sure that since January of this year everton have received a payment off Chang of £12 million and £11 million of kitbag. I must admit that is news to me.
Can anyone else confirm that we have had an injection of cash of £23 million in two transactions in the last 8 months?
Trevor # 55
Exactly the point I was making!
Exactly the point I was making!
Brendan moot point now.
To be honest mate I just typed in relegation odds prem 2012 and up popped paddy power with a list of clubs and their odds:
Everton 25/1
Man U 1500/1
Chelsea 1500/1
Not that it matters in the slightest.
I'm worried we've got all the symptoms of famous casualties of relegation in the past.
As I say, I hope I'm wrong and we cane everyone ? we will know soon enough...
To be honest mate I just typed in relegation odds prem 2012 and up popped paddy power with a list of clubs and their odds:
Everton 25/1
Man U 1500/1
Chelsea 1500/1
Not that it matters in the slightest.
I'm worried we've got all the symptoms of famous casualties of relegation in the past.
As I say, I hope I'm wrong and we cane everyone ? we will know soon enough...
Toffeweb fantasy football code:
166725-346554
166725-346554
Truce Thomas~ 38
Take it from me we ain't going down but I accept we ain't going to have a very good season..that much we can agree upon??
Take it from me we ain't going down but I accept we ain't going to have a very good season..that much we can agree upon??
& then I called you Thomas...so sorry!
Alex@59, good post, lets the fantasy football league decide who knows what they are talking about :-)
Tony Marsh I think you are living in the 80s.
Tony Marsh I think you are living in the 80s.
Can't really argue with the first 8 paragraphs but the diatribe after is a bit OTT.
Trevor, Chelsea are in for a torrid season then because Villas Boas has never played football beyond your level either.
Listening to some pundits and even our own most successful captain Ratcliffe, they talk utter shite. I would value far more opnions from those in your category D than a lot of ex-pros.
Listening to some pundits and even our own most successful captain Ratcliffe, they talk utter shite. I would value far more opnions from those in your category D than a lot of ex-pros.
Hey Micheal Kenrick
"I had decided this was not worthy of publication"
I understand this is your site, but I was under the impression that the purpose of the site was to debate all views across Evertonians no matter how diverse.
Just because Tony's view isn't popular, doesn't mean it's wrong; actually I always look forward to his posts as they generally encourage lively debate.
"I had decided this was not worthy of publication"
I understand this is your site, but I was under the impression that the purpose of the site was to debate all views across Evertonians no matter how diverse.
Just because Tony's view isn't popular, doesn't mean it's wrong; actually I always look forward to his posts as they generally encourage lively debate.
The fact we haven't bought anyone worthy of note since Fellaini is disturbing but Moyes can't be blamed for lack of investment. If he starts throwing repeated hissy fits at BK for funds. he is eventually liable to be shown the door.
Everton are a big name club, the marketing of this name needs more exposure, especially in countries that have huge Premier League following. Waiting for some sugar daddy to throw us a few bones is pointless, Moyes has to do the best with what he has and success achieved that way is much more satisfying. Enough of this defeatism, we haven't even kicked a ball in anger yet this season. COYB
Trevor,
Sadly nowhere near Everton. I have played to a decent standard though not anywhere near close to the highest standard.
The reason I disagree with you is because an old coach of mine was the most knowledgeable football man I've ever met. He never played the game beyond the school playground, he just coached and managed.
All the sides he coached and managed played football the right way and could mix it, they always won trophies.
An understanding of the game, tactics, people and an analytical nature to suss out the opposition doesn't really come from playing the game IMO it comes from studying it as opposed to watching and you own personal outlook on what good football is I..e. Man Utd have played great football for the majority of Ferguson's time there but it's not as pure as Arsene's Arsenal. Some would prefer Arsenals style because at times it can be breathtaking, personally I'd go for Man Utd's because thats the one that wins trophies time and time again.
For Moyes I'd say he does his best work off the pitch that has a positive effect on it. IMO this is more to do with motivation and organization than ability to coach expansive football.
I would say in his favour that until maybe 3 years ago we never had the players to play expansive football and the methods he laid down were correct to get the maximum in terms of league position, which matters when you are skint.
Now that in the main we have those players he has not used them to thier maximum, although had Yakubu and Pienaar not went away for the African Nations Cup we would have seen us finish fourth or better and the club would look massively different now.
That would have been a phenomenal achievement and the football played to get us to that position was at times brilliant.
IMO he and we are now going backwards in lots of different ways except league position and I expect us to finish around 7-8th. Which considering that Tranmere have outspent us this summer you cannot ask for more from him, however he does it. You can and should expect more from the board by all means.
Sadly nowhere near Everton. I have played to a decent standard though not anywhere near close to the highest standard.
The reason I disagree with you is because an old coach of mine was the most knowledgeable football man I've ever met. He never played the game beyond the school playground, he just coached and managed.
All the sides he coached and managed played football the right way and could mix it, they always won trophies.
An understanding of the game, tactics, people and an analytical nature to suss out the opposition doesn't really come from playing the game IMO it comes from studying it as opposed to watching and you own personal outlook on what good football is I..e. Man Utd have played great football for the majority of Ferguson's time there but it's not as pure as Arsene's Arsenal. Some would prefer Arsenals style because at times it can be breathtaking, personally I'd go for Man Utd's because thats the one that wins trophies time and time again.
For Moyes I'd say he does his best work off the pitch that has a positive effect on it. IMO this is more to do with motivation and organization than ability to coach expansive football.
I would say in his favour that until maybe 3 years ago we never had the players to play expansive football and the methods he laid down were correct to get the maximum in terms of league position, which matters when you are skint.
Now that in the main we have those players he has not used them to thier maximum, although had Yakubu and Pienaar not went away for the African Nations Cup we would have seen us finish fourth or better and the club would look massively different now.
That would have been a phenomenal achievement and the football played to get us to that position was at times brilliant.
IMO he and we are now going backwards in lots of different ways except league position and I expect us to finish around 7-8th. Which considering that Tranmere have outspent us this summer you cannot ask for more from him, however he does it. You can and should expect more from the board by all means.
Stephen, every single club in the entire Professional League system has outspent us. A truly shocking statistic.
The problem with professional footballers is that they are usually more knowledgeable about teh position they played, hence why Moyes is a better defensive manager than attacking. In their playing days if they were a forward, they wouldn't gave a toss about what goes on behind them, this has to be learned. This is why an attacking coach would be great.
The problem with professional footballers is that they are usually more knowledgeable about teh position they played, hence why Moyes is a better defensive manager than attacking. In their playing days if they were a forward, they wouldn't gave a toss about what goes on behind them, this has to be learned. This is why an attacking coach would be great.
Tony,
I disagree. I think your own opinion on how the game should be played is what will affect how you set your team up to play along with your personal characteristics I.e. Cautious, flamboyant etc.
There are plenty of forwards who were negative managers and vice versa for defenders.
I don't think an attacking coach would make a blind bit of difference TBH. I don't think you can teach players vision or to see a killer pass inside a fullback etc and even if you could the manager would still have to pick him every week over your steady eddie types.
I'm not tyring to agrue the case that Moyes isn't cautious and sometimes outright negative, just that even if he weren't it wouldn't affect where we finish by a great amount.
I disagree. I think your own opinion on how the game should be played is what will affect how you set your team up to play along with your personal characteristics I.e. Cautious, flamboyant etc.
There are plenty of forwards who were negative managers and vice versa for defenders.
I don't think an attacking coach would make a blind bit of difference TBH. I don't think you can teach players vision or to see a killer pass inside a fullback etc and even if you could the manager would still have to pick him every week over your steady eddie types.
I'm not tyring to agrue the case that Moyes isn't cautious and sometimes outright negative, just that even if he weren't it wouldn't affect where we finish by a great amount.
I skim read as far as paragraph 8 (frustration turned to anger ... Which turned to anger etc) and it rinsed me of 'Out of the Blue' by Julian Casablancas. At that point I stopped reading, wrote this and am now off to listen to it. A much better way to spend my time and I've not thought of that song for ages. Thank you Tony, for reminding me of the pleasure that Phrazes for the Young brings me.
First anger should have read apathy and rinsed should have read reminded. Writing on an iPhone!, sorry!
Tony 67,
I see what you are saying, but i think George Graham would be an exception to your view.
I see what you are saying, but i think George Graham would be an exception to your view.
stephen @ 66
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I was taking on board what you said till you got to Moyes.
You rationalise his style due to the players at his disposal but criticise what he's done when he gets a better standard of player (the caveat of the Yak and Pienaar - sorry mate every club has that).
This is the crux of it for me - Moyes is one dimensional - and as I've said in other threads after so long I'm fed up with it. The league position of "best of the rest" means piss all to me and whilst agreeing with your going backwards remark I differ in your projection - I think we'll go backward in the league as well.
I don't like his football and think it destined to fail on the really big occasion, like a cup final against the first team of a monied elite club.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I was taking on board what you said till you got to Moyes.
You rationalise his style due to the players at his disposal but criticise what he's done when he gets a better standard of player (the caveat of the Yak and Pienaar - sorry mate every club has that).
This is the crux of it for me - Moyes is one dimensional - and as I've said in other threads after so long I'm fed up with it. The league position of "best of the rest" means piss all to me and whilst agreeing with your going backwards remark I differ in your projection - I think we'll go backward in the league as well.
I don't like his football and think it destined to fail on the really big occasion, like a cup final against the first team of a monied elite club.
Oh come on, we got beat by Chelsea in the FA Cup Final because they are better than us. They are better because they have been able to buy some of the best players in the world. Questioning the ability of David Moyes because of his inability to beat one of the best teams not just in this country, but in the world, is daft. That wasn't just our biggest game of the season it was theirs too, remember. By all mean criticise Moyes, but, try and think of a genuine example!
Mark
Arsenal or relegated Birmingham for the Carling Cup?
Get a fuckin grip will ya - dolt.
Arsenal or relegated Birmingham for the Carling Cup?
Get a fuckin grip will ya - dolt.
Tony (21,
Martyn, Arteta, Bent, Kilbane all signed by Moyes, Osman given debut under him.
Practise what you preach
Martyn, Arteta, Bent, Kilbane all signed by Moyes, Osman given debut under him.
Practise what you preach
Some brillant comments, but have to agree, Moyes has gone stale. We are to predictable and even I basically know what system and what way we are going to play every game. As for Kenwright, he's no blue to me, he's a bastard and a liar. I
for one will be bringing my banner to the game next week, Park End, and unvailing it, KENWRIGHT OUT!!
Tony, you claimed in a recent article you had "given up on football" and now as Michael pointed out, you say you cannot be arsed.
Is that why you keep posting on a football site? Why don't you just do it - give up on football. Spare us your one dimensional rants and stop being arsed. While many believe you make some valid points, your irrational, often inaccurate ramblings to suit your agenda do nothing but discredit these.
For example, if you "knew a little about Everton FC" you would know that Martyn, Bent, Arteta and Kilbane, in addition to Cahill, were all signed by Moyes.
Now this is just my opinion, but I would have thought that by taking Walter Smith's team to 4th place is testament to Moyes' managerial ability, considering the state that team were in under Smith.
Is that why you keep posting on a football site? Why don't you just do it - give up on football. Spare us your one dimensional rants and stop being arsed. While many believe you make some valid points, your irrational, often inaccurate ramblings to suit your agenda do nothing but discredit these.
For example, if you "knew a little about Everton FC" you would know that Martyn, Bent, Arteta and Kilbane, in addition to Cahill, were all signed by Moyes.
Now this is just my opinion, but I would have thought that by taking Walter Smith's team to 4th place is testament to Moyes' managerial ability, considering the state that team were in under Smith.
Trevor I agree with all that, just that our plight isn't all his fault
To David Thomas #57
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1332917/Everton-agree-extension-shirt-deal-net-club-12m.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/5256436/Everton-agree-new-30m-merchandising-deal-with-Kitbag.html
I got it wrong Kitbag is 30m over 10 years.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1332917/Everton-agree-extension-shirt-deal-net-club-12m.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/5256436/Everton-agree-new-30m-merchandising-deal-with-Kitbag.html
I got it wrong Kitbag is 30m over 10 years.
Trevor you helmet, that is one game! How many other times have the top 4 been beaten by one of the also rans in an FA Cup or Carling Cup final in the past 10 yrs? Mug
Man City beat Stoke. Does that mean Pulis is shit? Chelsea beat Pompey. Solely Grants fault ... nobody else's? Premiership Pompey beat championship Cardiff And Dave Jones keeps his job??? Chairman got no balls! Man Utd beaten twice in 3 years by Arsenal and Chelsea! Because Ferguson bottled it on both occasions? Liverpool beat West Ham and Charlton STILL give Pards a job? Are they daft? I could have forgiven Wise for a defeat by Utd to Millwall, but by 3 clear goals? Shitbag!
Nugget. If you want to see the last time an underdog won the FA Cup Final you'll have to go back 16 yrsb (us). Before that it's probably Wimbledon in the 80's.
Moyes shit cause he couldn't even beat Cheslea in their biggest game of the season. Seriously what a helmet. Sort it out lad people like you spouting crap like that is why people call us bitter. 9 times out of 10 the better (more expensively assembled) wins the game. Citing that one randon out of ten where it happens to go the other way by chance, as an example of what should be the norm ... well. Words fail me.
Nugget. If you want to see the last time an underdog won the FA Cup Final you'll have to go back 16 yrsb (us). Before that it's probably Wimbledon in the 80's.
Moyes shit cause he couldn't even beat Cheslea in their biggest game of the season. Seriously what a helmet. Sort it out lad people like you spouting crap like that is why people call us bitter. 9 times out of 10 the better (more expensively assembled) wins the game. Citing that one randon out of ten where it happens to go the other way by chance, as an example of what should be the norm ... well. Words fail me.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 11/08/2011 at 16:23:40
Report abuse
Moyes has worked wonders with what little money he has been afforded for many years unlike the wasted millions for many years at Anfield by numerous managers.
Okay Everton have won nothing but, whilst it's possible a change in manager might alter that, nothing is certain when there is so much competition like that in the Premier League.
It's frustrating I know as I have lived through all the ups and downs of the Blues for 50 years, and I have to admit the coming season does look bleak... but let's not forget how bad things were back when we were escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth under much feebler managers.