Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Jagielka and Arsenal
33 Comments: Like almost all Evertonians I don't want Jags to leave. But if Arsenal do come in with a serious offer we shouldn't be upset - we don't have to say yes unless it suits us.
You may like your house and don't want to sell it. But if someone wants to live right there and is prepared to pay extra ? wouldn't you like the option? Of course you would... You can always say no.
I'm in the apparent minority here who believe ? with no inside knowledge ? that owners and management are probably trying their best for the club. So I would rather they had some options than none.
Peter Hall, Posted 14/08/2011 at 23:01:27
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Well, Peter, faith can be a very dangerous thing and when it is used on our lying club chairman and his useless lackeys in the boardroom, it can be downright depressing as well.
I understand what you are trying to say but if I have only a house and a potential buyer offers to buy it, it may be a bad idea to sell, especially considering the escalating prices of property (read: transfer market). After all, even with the profit I make from the sale, I may find myself unable to afford a new place and end up homeless. A centreback who is good enough to replace Jags is likely to be quite expensive and therefore unaffordable.
I understand what you are trying to say but if I have only a house and a potential buyer offers to buy it, it may be a bad idea to sell, especially considering the escalating prices of property (read: transfer market). After all, even with the profit I make from the sale, I may find myself unable to afford a new place and end up homeless. A centreback who is good enough to replace Jags is likely to be quite expensive and therefore unaffordable.
Over 12m for a 29yr old central defender who is great going backwards but can't pass is phenomenal business for us.
Whether we like it or not players cannot be allowed to retire with us, run contracts down(Pienaar) or stay until a point they lose significant value.
That money would give Moyes either the option of replacing him with a younger man or re-balancing the squad.
I personally feel as though we have enough in the current squad to replace him without buying.
Until we get a player who can go past people we will continue to struggle to break teams down, clearly these players don't usually come cheap and they are not that easy to find.
Central defenders while still not easy to find are generally easier to get on the cheap and coach, which Moyes has proven he can do to international level on two occasions.
Only a stubborn fool would turn a big bid down IMO.
Whether we like it or not players cannot be allowed to retire with us, run contracts down(Pienaar) or stay until a point they lose significant value.
That money would give Moyes either the option of replacing him with a younger man or re-balancing the squad.
I personally feel as though we have enough in the current squad to replace him without buying.
Until we get a player who can go past people we will continue to struggle to break teams down, clearly these players don't usually come cheap and they are not that easy to find.
Central defenders while still not easy to find are generally easier to get on the cheap and coach, which Moyes has proven he can do to international level on two occasions.
Only a stubborn fool would turn a big bid down IMO.
Agree fully with you Stephen! Would be stupid to turn down an offer of 15+ million for Jags who cant pass and makes mistakes here and there to cost us goals.
Stephen
"I personally feel as though we have enough in the current squad to replace him without buying"
Just as well, because I personally feel - with no inside knowledge - that any money would go to the clubs creditors, not the manager
"I personally feel as though we have enough in the current squad to replace him without buying"
Just as well, because I personally feel - with no inside knowledge - that any money would go to the clubs creditors, not the manager
Im my opinion 15 million ( if thats whats on the table) would be fantastic money for Jags. He is 29 and i dont think he has ever recaptured his form since his cruciate ligament injury. Heitinga would be more than a replacement for him in that position. Given our current situation we have no choice if we want to get a striker of any note.
Phil, as you say with no inside knowledge there's not much point discussing it.
My opinion is this;
If selling 29yr olds for big money is what's needed to pay our creditors and keep young up and comers like Fellaini and Barkley at the club then it's a comprosmise I'm willing to accept until a boardroom solution is found.
Thats conjecture, whats fact is I can say that I have seen Heitinga play. A much better communicator and footballer, although slightly less proficient in the air and a bit slower.
My opinion is this;
If selling 29yr olds for big money is what's needed to pay our creditors and keep young up and comers like Fellaini and Barkley at the club then it's a comprosmise I'm willing to accept until a boardroom solution is found.
Thats conjecture, whats fact is I can say that I have seen Heitinga play. A much better communicator and footballer, although slightly less proficient in the air and a bit slower.
Peter, apologies for going off track a little, but I do feel despondent when I read posts like yours. It is as though the supporters have become accepting of the straits we are in.
All clubs have to sell: Arsenal at the mometn with Fabregas and Nasri; Man Utd with C Ronaldo. But that was because the player wanted to leave.
We are in a terrible financial state and have become a club that sells it assets to survive from one season to the next, whilst keeping fingers crossed that we can unearth a new gem to stave off the creditors next year, as Phil says at No 5.
Stephen at No 3 is right. Things are tougher for clubs now post-Bosman, I accept that. We saw that With Pienaar earlier in the year.
However, the owners do have more than one option, but sadly thet means them shipping out, and if necessary reducign their asking price for the club. To use your house-sale analogy, if you put your house on the market and nobody bites, you have to reduce the price.
There should be outrage at having to sell The Jags. Instead we are meekly discussing the fact of what would be the best price for one of our better players, with little sense of alarm or outrage.
All clubs have to sell: Arsenal at the mometn with Fabregas and Nasri; Man Utd with C Ronaldo. But that was because the player wanted to leave.
We are in a terrible financial state and have become a club that sells it assets to survive from one season to the next, whilst keeping fingers crossed that we can unearth a new gem to stave off the creditors next year, as Phil says at No 5.
Stephen at No 3 is right. Things are tougher for clubs now post-Bosman, I accept that. We saw that With Pienaar earlier in the year.
However, the owners do have more than one option, but sadly thet means them shipping out, and if necessary reducign their asking price for the club. To use your house-sale analogy, if you put your house on the market and nobody bites, you have to reduce the price.
There should be outrage at having to sell The Jags. Instead we are meekly discussing the fact of what would be the best price for one of our better players, with little sense of alarm or outrage.
We do actually have a centre half who reached the world cup final sat on the bench as well.
As stated above selling a 29yr old for over 10mill is good business, I think Wes Brown who is 31yr went for about a 1 million so can we really afford to wait??
As stated above selling a 29yr old for over 10mill is good business, I think Wes Brown who is 31yr went for about a 1 million so can we really afford to wait??
Jags is one of the best defenders i have seen at Everton, who,s been better?, i,ve been watching Everton for 40 years and i think of the likes of Ratcliff, Watson ect and in my opinion Jags is as good if not better, ask the likes of Torres.
Look at it this way,if we sold jags, again in my opinion, we would finish lower than if he was playing for Everton .
So there for, them places in the league equals, so many £millions, so its a false economy.
Jags has been OUTSTANDING for us and you dont let your OUTSTANDING player go. An outstanding player who wants to stay FFS.
Look at it this way,if we sold jags, again in my opinion, we would finish lower than if he was playing for Everton .
So there for, them places in the league equals, so many £millions, so its a false economy.
Jags has been OUTSTANDING for us and you dont let your OUTSTANDING player go. An outstanding player who wants to stay FFS.
I think anything above or around 15 million we should sell. We have a World Cup finalist ready to step in and a couple of youngsters as back up.
If we got 15m for Jags, 3m for Yobo and 4m for Yak that's 22m. We could put 5m against the debts which would leave us with 17m for a striker and a couple of wide men.
However, this is Everton and I suspect none of this will happen.
If we got 15m for Jags, 3m for Yobo and 4m for Yak that's 22m. We could put 5m against the debts which would leave us with 17m for a striker and a couple of wide men.
However, this is Everton and I suspect none of this will happen.
You are a realist and much as I rate Jags he is not indespensible if his going can improve the team and if necessary start to reduce some debt.
Colin, a bit OTT there i think.
He didn't even look a better player than Distin last season mate.
He didn't even look a better player than Distin last season mate.
If we would sell him for say 15 millions I would accept it IF we could use the biggest part of that money to get in some new players.
I would even accept it if Bill K said we wouldn't get new players but start redeveloping Goodison for that money.
Perhaps I might even accept it if we used the money to pay off loans so we are in a better state financially, have less interest payments to make.
The terrible thing is that we would probably use the money simply to pay the interest on outstanding loans.
I would even accept it if Bill K said we wouldn't get new players but start redeveloping Goodison for that money.
Perhaps I might even accept it if we used the money to pay off loans so we are in a better state financially, have less interest payments to make.
The terrible thing is that we would probably use the money simply to pay the interest on outstanding loans.
Given that Arsenal have the Fabregas money burning a hole in their pockets...i'd be inclined to sell and use the money wisely on a number of younger players as opposed to one "marquee" signing.
Just stop all the "how much can we get" for this and that player and ask...how did we get into this state? Why are other teams able to do more with Sky, TV, sponsorship and League position money than just pay the players and the police bill?
Should we start taking promisory down-payments on young Barkley, now?
ffs Bill, get some pros in the boardroom and on your executive team
Should we start taking promisory down-payments on young Barkley, now?
ffs Bill, get some pros in the boardroom and on your executive team
Its a strange one isn't it...I don't think we HAVE to sell and I think that's why we hold all the cards so I personally cant see this one happening...player is happy to stay, we'd like him to stay and so it would have to be ridiculous money that would convince us to do business...
The difference between Jags and say Lescott/Fabregas is the players wanted to leave...I think Jags is happy either way.
We would only need to sell, if we wanted to sign any players this year and whilst we would all love to see that, for me, not at the expense of Jags.
The board are happy with the current squad, and I'll put my neck on the chopping board and say yes it is pretty strong and I don't think there is any team (even the title challengers) that are going into the season with a COMPLETE squad (Barcelona just served all of Europe's asses to them and yet they still buy Fabregas)...there's always some position(s) that hasn't been filled...in our case it's wingers and strikers...
The difference between Jags and say Lescott/Fabregas is the players wanted to leave...I think Jags is happy either way.
We would only need to sell, if we wanted to sign any players this year and whilst we would all love to see that, for me, not at the expense of Jags.
The board are happy with the current squad, and I'll put my neck on the chopping board and say yes it is pretty strong and I don't think there is any team (even the title challengers) that are going into the season with a COMPLETE squad (Barcelona just served all of Europe's asses to them and yet they still buy Fabregas)...there's always some position(s) that hasn't been filled...in our case it's wingers and strikers...
While financially it would be good business for the club, my fear is that any Arsenal bid for Jags will be initially rejected, with the club then trying to wrangle every last penny possible out of Arsenal up until deadline day, at which stage EFC will "reluctantly" sell up.
If given any of the money to spend, Moyes will then proceed to panic buy from whatever is available to him before the window "slams shut".
Then again, when you exist on a sell-to-buy or a sell-to-survive model, this is the risk you run.
If given any of the money to spend, Moyes will then proceed to panic buy from whatever is available to him before the window "slams shut".
Then again, when you exist on a sell-to-buy or a sell-to-survive model, this is the risk you run.
I doubt very much Arsenal will offer any more than the rumored £10 mil. They don't buy players of Jag's age because there is no sell on value. So we have priced them out of the market.
If they did offer any more than this we'd have to snap there arm off because we simply cannot afford to say no. Next year his value will start to drop simply due to his age. That's our central defensive partnership both in the 30's.
If they did offer any more than this we'd have to snap there arm off because we simply cannot afford to say no. Next year his value will start to drop simply due to his age. That's our central defensive partnership both in the 30's.
7@ agreed.
It would be folly to turn down a big(15m+) down for a 29yr old cb. Committed and endearing but limited player. I don't expect the deal will go through to be honest though as I think Arsenal can do better. Heitinga would be far more suited to them anyway and much cheaper.
It would be folly to turn down a big(15m+) down for a 29yr old cb. Committed and endearing but limited player. I don't expect the deal will go through to be honest though as I think Arsenal can do better. Heitinga would be far more suited to them anyway and much cheaper.
James, I agree. Heitinga is more the Arsenal-type of player, although Johnny is way too old for Wengers' standards.
How much would you guys want to have for Heitinga?
How much would you guys want to have for Heitinga?
Erik, you just don't get it, do you?
Erik. Jags is older than Heitinga.
Colin Malone @10.
Colin, I can agree that Jags is an excellent player but he is not in the same league as Ratcliffe or Labone and is, in my opinion, certainly no better than Watson or Mountford when he's at his best.
If we sold Jags for £5m or £50m I can't see Moyes getting any of it so let's keep him.
Colin Malone @10.
Colin, I can agree that Jags is an excellent player but he is not in the same league as Ratcliffe or Labone and is, in my opinion, certainly no better than Watson or Mountford when he's at his best.
If we sold Jags for £5m or £50m I can't see Moyes getting any of it so let's keep him.
Thing is
With Coleman crocked and Gueye fucked as well we have an even smaller squad
Whether Jags goes or not, something has to give
Its a rotten situation that BK should be ashamed of, he and his non-existant boardroom cronies have run this club into the ground
If we get another serious injury we are totally fucked
Still, at least the seats have had a good paint at GP....
With Coleman crocked and Gueye fucked as well we have an even smaller squad
Whether Jags goes or not, something has to give
Its a rotten situation that BK should be ashamed of, he and his non-existant boardroom cronies have run this club into the ground
If we get another serious injury we are totally fucked
Still, at least the seats have had a good paint at GP....
We have more thean enough central midfielders - at least compared with other areas of the pitch. Possibly yhey have higher attition, but with: Fellaini, Rodwell, the exciting looking Barkley, Cahill, Osman, Bily, and if need be to fill in - Heitinga and Neville.
If we need to raise money for a winger and a striker: sell Yobo to lift our pot to £5 million (always assuming it's not going the way of the Pienaar money, to the banks, which if so makes this discussion academic), and a CM.
Even one of the cheaper CMs (say Bily) would allow to buy one player, and get a second on loan (as we all surely know, a striker and a winger is required); if we sell a pricier (Rodwell, say), we can buy both.
But sell Jags, and most of it will go on bidding for Dann.
If we need to raise money for a winger and a striker: sell Yobo to lift our pot to £5 million (always assuming it's not going the way of the Pienaar money, to the banks, which if so makes this discussion academic), and a CM.
Even one of the cheaper CMs (say Bily) would allow to buy one player, and get a second on loan (as we all surely know, a striker and a winger is required); if we sell a pricier (Rodwell, say), we can buy both.
But sell Jags, and most of it will go on bidding for Dann.
If it is anywhere near 15 Million we have to take it and use the money to get someone up front and in midfield.
We need a midfield enforcer like Joey Barton everyone knows how tough and he is one of (if not the best) midfielder in the country. I was amazed at how he dominated the game against Arsenal on Saturday all this and he can take a punch too!
If you think I am taking the piss then you are right. All of you who were baying for this gobshite?s signature should be ashamed after his pathetic antics on Saturday. Hardman don?t make me laugh, conman more like. Read the Don?t sign Dick Barton thread to see all the Barton lovers in full flow defending the indefensible.
Sell Jags and buy a quality forward.
We need a midfield enforcer like Joey Barton everyone knows how tough and he is one of (if not the best) midfielder in the country. I was amazed at how he dominated the game against Arsenal on Saturday all this and he can take a punch too!
If you think I am taking the piss then you are right. All of you who were baying for this gobshite?s signature should be ashamed after his pathetic antics on Saturday. Hardman don?t make me laugh, conman more like. Read the Don?t sign Dick Barton thread to see all the Barton lovers in full flow defending the indefensible.
Sell Jags and buy a quality forward.
Or, Ed, sell Jags. pay the electricity bill, fix that dodgy step and and repair the Park End wall
(if we sell him and DO sign anyone decent, I'll recant and buy a Chang at the next home game)
(if we sell him and DO sign anyone decent, I'll recant and buy a Chang at the next home game)
Phil (22), it's funny, I think exactly the same of you when reading your posts.
Moyes out!
@26 I have to say you are right on Barton.
I had thought he would be a decent signing on a free but now I retort!
The incident on Saturday was an embarrassment and put me off. Even more so than his colourful past.
I can't stand to watch grown men slap each other and fall to the floor. The majority of footballers today are complete pussys! It literally makes me cringe. Totally pathetic.
I had thought he would be a decent signing on a free but now I retort!
The incident on Saturday was an embarrassment and put me off. Even more so than his colourful past.
I can't stand to watch grown men slap each other and fall to the floor. The majority of footballers today are complete pussys! It literally makes me cringe. Totally pathetic.
Looks like Jags didn't feature at all tonight and I for one think that he is going to go. I will miss his character and presence in the team but if its upwards of £15m, we simply have to sell in our current position. I just hope even half of it goes to Moyes for new players.
EFC's plan for this season was to off load the so called lesser players to keep the banks happy....Yakubu,Yobo,etc, however,its all gone " tits up" on that front, therefore, expect a bigger name to leave. Also, the proceeds will not be given to Moyes, it will go straight to the bank.
Further proof of the shit we are in !!!
Further proof of the shit we are in !!!
Oooh Erik, you are awful!
Those that understand ...
Those that understand ...
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1 Posted 15/08/2011 at 06:29:22
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