For starters Paul, the manager could play them in their correct positions. Just a thought.

Coleman IS a great a young player, who in case you've forgotten was shortlisted for PFA young player of the season.

Rodwell struggled for much of last season with injury, so I think it is unreasonable to suggest he went backwards. I think it's more a case of his progress has been slowed.

As for Vaughan, please explain how Moyes could have advanced the career of a player who had more serious injuries by the age of 21 than most players have in an entire career, and they would be the unlucky ones. And guess what, he has yet to make his debut for Norwich. Why? Because he's injured!

As for Anichebe, I would suggest Moyes has given every chance to a player, who on the evidence of what we've seen so far is simply not up to the grade.

Totally agree with Steven. A young player who is asked to play in centre midfield in one game, right wing in another, and then made to switch positions in subsequent games will obviously not progress as much as a player who plays in the same position for every game.

The coaching at our club is an abject failure. Players are taught to be defensive and overcautious. Too often have we seen a player who passes the ball and then stands in the same spot without having any intention of moving forward and getting into good positions.

I saw our youth squad play in the Lion City Cup this year and I must say it was like watching the senior squad. Stupid defensive lapses, negative play with no plan B when things didn't work, zero attacking instincts, with a style so insipid it would have been more exciting watching paint dry. To force talented youngsters to play such rubbish football is tantamount to child abuse.

Kenshite and Moyes out, and they can take the coaches with them. I'll pay for the cab fare!

anyone have any news on Jose Baxter's development? He made his debut 3 years ago but has hardly been seen since. Can anyone who sees him regularly for the reserves say whether he's 1st team material or not?

Rodwell should be loaned out to a lower tier prem club (Wigan, West Brom). He will play week in week out in central midfield. When he comes back he will be a different player. He has had pressure heaped on him from media and fans since he was 16. He needs to go away and develop at a different club. Obviously with such a small squad it's unlikely to happen. I still believe Rodwell has a big future if he is handled properely.

FFS. Are you just looking for things to whine about? Also, if you are going to pay a player more than £20,000 a week, surely they should be able to play in any position. Testing players in different positions will also give us cover when injuries happen or cover when the wingers (ahem!) cut inside and leave too much space behind them. If you are unhappy with the coaching, why don't you offer them your support?

Liu, thank fuck your not working for social services. How the hell can it be tantamount to child abuse. There is no comparison between playing a youngster out of position and stubbing cigarettes out on a toddler.

Anichebe would be a star at Man Utd? Are we talking about the same lad here?

Rodwell is the only one who might have done better at Man Utd and I'm not sure about that because he has lots of injuries which hurt his development. Anichebe just isn't good enough. Vaughan is ridiculously injury prone. It's a shame as I think that if he would have been fit all those years he would be a sensational striker right now. But he is at Norwich now, guess what? He is not playing due to another knee injury.

And Coleman? Coleman played a good season last year. Don't see how he would have done better at Old Trafford, think he would not have got as much playing time as he got here. He is better off at Everton.

I think there are enough reasons to complain about; but I hardly see how the four names you mention would have done better for Man Utd.

Agree with Richard Erik and Ellen. This is just something else to have a bash at Moyes about. Something else, as detailed by the above, which doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

We don't have 1 attack minded coach. They're all defenders. And who is next in line - Davie Weir. Can't wait.

As has been said on here before, Moyes is nothing more than a jumped up P.E. teacher (no offence to P.E. teachers) so how can he develop talent?

Yeah Man Utd never play "people out of position" when coming through or established.......
O'Shea RB, CB, LB, Mid
Our own Pip, LB, RB, Mid
Giggs, CM. LM, Behind the striker.
Rooney CF, LM
Smalling, CB, RB
Scholes, CF, CM

And thats just off the top of my head.

Danny Burke#10

Scholes (midfielder) - played in midfield anyway
Rooney (forward) - is a freak and can play anywhere anyway
Giggs (midfielder) - plays in midfield
O'Shea (defender) - moving around ruined him and he's gone from Man U

What's your point? At least the majority play in their general post code. Not too unfamiliar territory for them.

How do you justify Rodwell and his constant movement in playing positions as helping his development?

Let's be honest here, our young players have gone backwards. How many more excuses for Rodwell?

Players like Wellbeck, Henderson, Wiltshire have all gone forward and Rodwell backwards. It must be the coaching in the senior team (Moyes and Round).

Also, Big Vic should have improved, but simple technical things like ball control and passing he still has not mastered. As for Coleman, yes he was good last season, but I still say he was better when he was loaned out to Blackpool under Holloway.

I think the point about loaning out is a good one as the player to have grown the most from the four highlighted is Coleman, who spent a season learning attacking football at Blackpool under Ian Holloway. The first half of last season he was a revelation until one of three things happened. A) He got tired as the season wore on. B) He got 'found out' by the opposition or C) (Sadly, I think this is more likely to be the case) His attacking flair was trained back out of him in preference to the defensive elements both Moyes & Round vocalised were in need of attention at the time.

Geoff Edwards I have watched him alot and he will simply never make it at this level Barkley is just 17 and he is light years ahead of him, im not Victors biggest fan but even he is on a different level to Baxter, i have nothing against him but he would make a good Championship squad player but no more than that.

Steven Pendelton & Lui Weixian, how do these views fit with the World renowned Ajax system. Where it's believed that any player should be able to play in any position?

And Giggs has played very well at left back!!!
Quality players should be able to pass and move in almost any position, except probably centre half!!! They are normally taller than average.

Steve #11

My point is that moving players around, especially when young helps develop an all round game and the most succesfull manager and team in the country have done it consistantly over the years. It clearly won't work for every player, depending on their individual attributes, but can have it's uses.

As for Rodwell, I don't agree with playing him on the right, I want to see him central, this is a big season for him to step up. But isn't RM in the "general postcode" to CM? They are both midfield positions.

Danny Burke #16
I agree with you on how it can aid in the development of some players.

However for Rodwell, this strategy seems to be hindering his development and he looked a shattered and frustrated kid when taken off.

And doesn't Moyes state that he's going to be a centre half in the later years? That's if he still has confidence to stick around until Moyes thinks he's ready for it. Feel for the kid.

Coleman was playing with Sligo until he was 20/21 so the lad hasn't had his natural game 'coached out' of him-YET!!

I think the fans play just as big a role as the manager, I think it is relevant to the article a few days ago about the effect of Toffeeweb and other fans forums and their effect on the match goer at the stadium. If the crowd turns on a player, it seems they never recover.

I don't think Rooney went backwards under Moyes, if anything I thought he was more exciting to watch at Everton. Although I do think McFadden went backwards under Moyes, partly because we didn't know what his best position was and because Kilbane was the safer more defensive option on the left which meant McFadden had to sit it out on the bench. I'm not saying McFadden could have been a Ronaldo but SAF persited with Ronaldo early on because it was clear he had a great potential and real talent even though he was a laughing stock in a lot of games in his first couple of seasons.

Perhaps the expectations McFadden set in his first few games worked against him because the crowd seemed to expect him to beat every man when he got the ball, but by the end he couldn't beat anyone.

Perhaps he was never really that good and the reason he played well early on was because of the poor quality of the opposition, but I do believe the crowd destroyed his confidence, the groans around the stadium when he lost the ball trying to beat a player were cringeworthy.

I think Rodwell has been hugely overrated from the very beginning so he was never going to live up to expectations but his progress seems to have stalled since Gosling left. I think Gosling deflected a lot of the criticism from Rodwell, Rodwell was always the golden boy and Gosling was always considered the 'Championship player' by many fans on here, although my own view was that both were equally average but Gosling had a knack of scoring important goals or charging forward and finding himself in good goal scoring positions. Now Gosling has gone everyone has been fully focused on Rodwell and have realised he is not as good as they thought. He is now being turned on by fans which i believe is affecting his confidence, but as with McFadden, what is his best position? He hasnt played great where ever he has been played, so again i think it's parlty the managers fault, partly the fans and partly because he was never that good in the first place.

Anichebe was never that good, Vaughn was always thought of as the one with the most potential. However Anichebe was given more time because of the injuries to Vaughn and beause of our involvement in the Europa league were he was hugely impressive on some very exciting European nights, so much so he had his own songs. He was changing games late on in games not long after coming on as a substitute which again set very high expectations for him which he was never going to live up to because he never seemed to do much in the league and he is a forward that doesn't score goals. I actually think Moyes got the best out of him but now the fans are destroying his confidence.

I havn't seen Colemen lacking in progression, he seems to be developing quite nicely and Fellaini and Baines have also improved to become 2 of the best players in the league, so shouldn't Moyes be praised for their development?

I think it's not as simple as blaming the manager; players develop at different rates and I think a lot of it comes down to their strength of character whether they can cope with the expectations at the highest level. I do believe some of the players read sites like this and, if they don't, I believe the message from here is still transmitted to the newspapers and to the pubs and finally to the pitch where the crowd will let them know. The player needs to be able to deal with it which can't be coached.

Lee @ 12 - It's option B with Coleman.

Ian @ 19 - It's because McFadden was frustratingly inconsistent, very rarely produced an end product and was painfully lacking in a football brain.

To the original poster, Anichebe would be a great young player by now were he at Man Utd? I have heard it all now....

Noel you might be right but the same could be said for Ronaldo early on at Man Utd.

Firstly other than Rooney I don't think we bring on young players at all, certainly no different to other clubs.

Moyes uses youngsters in desperation and it shows - shoe horning them in wherever there's a gap with all the enthusiasm of an undertaker.

Not the ideal prep that's for sure and a place to avoid if you're a forward.

Lets not kid ourselves Manure have had many young players who didn't make the grade and moved to lesser clubs where they were average or less.
Everton have had their share but it's down to management and coaching only part of the time. Attitude and dedication helps young players along and if they don't have it they will fail ala Francis Jeffers and Danny Cadamartri.
Anichebe's problem is he just isn't a class player.He is just big and robust but doesn't impress me as a player who will make it in the Prem.
Coleman is a right back pure and simple but Moyes has to accommodate his faves Neville and Hibbert.
Rodwell should be groomed as a defender not as a midfielder where he has shown only moderate success.

Steve@1 if a player has the ability there quality will shine through regardless of the position they play. Players may perform better in there favoured positions but quality footballers are quality footballers with only goalkeeping that should give them problems.

Barkley is not a wide player but didn't seem to have a problem finding a blue shirt for the most part and having composure on the ball and hitting passes that made it easy for his teammates also seemed to come natural to the lad.

Now lets take a look at Rodwell 80% of his passes are either behind the man or over hit directly at his teammates. Rodwell from what i have seen is not great at making tackles has limited skill and yet is considered by many a future great? Its fucking amazing that a player who is athletic and is English is rated so highly. Rodwell has done no more than have a handfull of good games as a defensive midfielder.

Coleman was impressive last season playing wide and made a impact, considering the fee paid for him it was a bonus. Coleman's final ball could improve and i expect it will as he looks like he wants to learn and is happy to also put the hard work in but imo he does his best work attacking and looks slightly suspect when asked to defend.

Anichebe is simply out of his depth at the top of the game. Another player who with limited football ability has got by on nothing more than strength and size which is even more remarkable as he goes down easily when challenged by opponents 2 foot shorter and half his weight.

The way forward has to be youth and we have done ok bringing players on but the need to bring a bunch threw rather than one a season has to be the aim, it will be very hard to achieve this but they are the standards we have to aim for.

Ellen #6

Spot on

What a load of tosh.

So we moan at Moyes for playing Anichebe and giving him so many chances but then we also moan for not giving Anichebe the chance to develop into a proper player!!

I think Richard @ 2 got it right.

Suspect everything was covered in first half dozen posts... well, post 2 really!

Players have been played 'out of position' for many years, eg Ratcliffe played at left back in early days ? didn't harm his progress.

The idea that Rodwell is being played out of position is strange ? he was raised to be a centre back but no-one seems to advocate him playing there these days. I believe that last season's injury came at a bad time but equally don't really know what he does at times.

So Moyes has come out and told the fans that the one bright spark of the season, Ross Barkley, is going to be handled carefully.

All I can deduce from this is Moyes is telling the fan that that one bright spark is going to be hidden as much as possible until a big money move to Man Utd gets touted ? echoes of Rooney all over again!

Just bloody play him all the time! He is young, energetic, hungry, better than what we have and so must be played as much as possible!!!