John, I think Moyes and tactics is a lost cause. I've given up hope of ever seeing an Everton team win a match against Premier League opposition (or equivalent) on the basis of incisive tactical play.
For me, the most criminal act of Moyes is to persist with playing players out of position and/or not to their true strengths. If we as fans (and arguably opposition managers) can see that Billy and Rodwell are no wingers, Heitinga is no holding midfielder, Anichebe and Beckford can't lead the line on their own, etc, yet Moyes can't and continues to play them as such, week in, week out, it ceases to be a case of stubbornness and is instead a case of sheer ineptitude.

I believe that everyone bar Howard had a poor game on saturday, i was actually pleased at the line-up when he started Arteta on the wing rather than in field. I just wanna get wednesday over with and hope to fuck we don't sell any of our big players.

Our coaching panels failure to improve our players obvious flaws has been a theme of mine for a long time. Some of that might be down to the players. What is inexcusable is that the fitness level of our squad is obviously behind that of opponents.

Totally agree,I left before the winner on Saturday, My mind was numb after witnessing that and even when I heard the winner I struggled to get excited and have never felt like that in all my Everton life, how he thinks we can score goals with a lad who has not scored in the league since God knows when is beyond me.
Moyes just appears to be getting more and more negative and it seems his game plan must be to try and sneak one from a set piece as we must be the most uninteresting team in the league.
Be prepared for his next one as I am sure Barkleys mistake will be his excuse to drop him and push Osman wide and get Cahill back in, despite the fact the lad has been our only player to try and create anything.

Tactics are over rated, in the words of Johan Cruyff. ( I may have made that up)

The problem is individual players not performing

It has nothing to do with tactics. It is all about the players available.

Look at Man City and Arsenal. Man City were citicised for boring defensive football. That is because they had more defensive minded midfielders like De Jong and Barry in the side. Now that they have added Aguero and Nasri, suddenly the team is more attacking and exciting. The fact that they had the money to buy 2 world class attacking players made the difference not tactics.

The opposite is true of Arsenal, Wenger losos 2 of his best attacking players and relys on his tactics and style of play to get him out of trouble which has back fired.

Money and top attacking players is what it's all about. Moyes has to play Rodwell and Bily out of postion because we don't have (cant afford) top attacking players. Moyes is the top man for the job, recent events with the big spending teams like Man Utd, Liverpool and Man City doing well and non spending Arsenal Spurs and Everton prove this more than ever.

It was hard to describe what it was like coming out of the match on Saturday .One of the worst Everton performances ever but we won - though my thoughts went back to Villa away last season when we played them off the park and lost.

Moyes really needs to to sit down and evaluate how he wants us to play.We had no shape on Saturday, our midfield where like statues and we eventually got penned back in our own half.

Time and again we would hoof the ball up front and guess what it came straight back.Now if you want to play like that you need a big target man who can hold the ball up so your midfield can push up and support him. We seem to play somewhere in between this tatic.

I think first Moyes needs to sort out his back four - this used to be our strength we were always so strong from set pieces and corners. Nowadays your heart is in your mouth everytime the ball comes in long.

Get some solidity back and then get the midfield to pass and move - dont stand like a statue and let the game by pass you .

If we play long why not give Vellios a go 6'3" a target man can he be as bad as what we have now ?

We need to go back to basics and impose ourselves on the opposition just like the 'dogs of war' - then you vcan start to play your own football.

I genuinely don't see the point of two holding midfielders, fine if we were defensively solid but struggling to score but thats not even the case. We're getting carved open by balckburn so why not just dispense with one of the holding mids (namely Heitinga). Play Fellaini as defensive mid and give osman barkley arteta bilyaletdinov or whoever the chance to push on forward. I'm sick of seeing our midifled holding hands with the centre backs and our attacking mid doing nothing but jumping for howards goalkicks.

Moyes tactics have been baffling for the last 7-8 years and it hasn't just all of a sudden started at Ewood park. It's been going on for years and will continue to do so for as long as he is in charge so might as well get used to it.

Moyes is too scared of dropping certain players. I think he's afraid people like Heitinga will spit their dummy out. Clearly he is a centre half. It's holding us back no end always playing 5 in midfield.

I would like to see us play 5-3-2(3-2-3-2):
Howard
Distin Jagielka Heitinga
Baines Coleman
Billy Fellaini Arteta
Saha Beckford

In pre-season we should have experimented more with different formations and player combinations. Moyes has had this squad for a few years; he knows how it works in a 4-5-1 so why didn?t he try something new at some point of pre-season?

Baines and Coleman as wing backs could possibly sort our problems out wide. If I was manager of Everton we would kick ass.

Man. Moyes is a stubborn idiot.

I get that he has assembled a decent squad, and he has a good eye for a bargain, but he has too many managerial failings.
1.) Plays players out of their best position (i know sometimes you might have to, with injuries and what not, but the clown does it all the freakin time!)
2.) Too stubborn with his formation. 4-5-1 can work wonders at times, but other times it just makes no sense. How many times have we been playing like shit, concede a goal, then with ten minutes left he chucks another striker on and we start dominating and score? Too many times!
3.) Opposite of #2, how many times have we been playing well, score a couple goals, then with 20mins left he changes to defensive mode and we end up defending our area like mad for the rest of the game? Too many times!
4.) 4-6-0. Sort of speaks for itself. Strikers score goals, and at times we don't have a single striker on the field. Stupid.
5.) Slow start to season. How many times has he failed to get the team to fire until Christmas time? Pretty much every year.
6.) Anichebe is still at the club.
7.) Fuck my life.

I guess what I'm saying is Moyes can spot a few bargain players, but can't manage them. He should be an Everton scout, and we should get someone else to manage the team. Just please not a LESS attack minded manager, like Allardyce or Pulis. Anything but that!

Ye David i bet you are great on football manager. You've probably won European Cups with Rhyl or Tranmere Rovers thanks to your tactical know how.

Steve Anichebe played as the hold up man who must be better than Velios. Its not Moyes fault he cant go out and buy Drogba.

Kunal Moyes tactics over the last 7-8 years heve had us challanging for European football as best of the rest, we have reached semi finals and finals of cups only to be beaten by Chelsea's billions.
Chris i think i will listen to the other 19 managers and their opinions of Moyes rather than your expert analysis.

His tactics have been awful for several seasons now...in fact they are the sole reason I decided to give up my season tickets which I'd held all told for over 30yrs....i just couldn't take watching his dour,negative SHITE style of play any longer...

Most of Walter's tenure was bad but the shite Moyes has served up over the past two seasons is as poor as anything I've EVER seen at Everton...he did well to get us from where we were to where we are....but sorry it's time for him to go...If we're gonna get beaten well at least go down fighting but he doesn't even do that

His continued insistance of playing players out of position is just sheer lower level Sunday League.....Man Utd's next manager...you must be joking...did you see the way they played yesterday....Moyes and his awful negative style of style of play wouldn't last six months....

Ian @ 12 - Yeah, true, but that just begs the question as to how well we could possilby do if Moyes were tactically proficient.

There are many, many examples of this. The most recent I've seen with my own eyes was against QPR at home; now I'm no expert (and I've never played 'Football Manager'), but to me, it seems very, very, very odd to spend a period of the game with NO STRIKER on the pitch when we're chasing the game agains a (supposedly) weaker side. Is 4-6-0 really a tacitical masterstroke in these circumstances?

I think Dick mentioned about the coaches not sorting out our basic flaws - agreed; the ones that REALLY get on my goat are, a) the inability to retain posession at a throw in and b) only clearing the first man in about 3 out of 10 corners!


And yes Nelly, he'll never be Utd's manager - that it utter claptrap you're right. I don't want him to leave us though - it's be the start of a managerial merrygoround....who else would be daft/loyal enough to saty with us for another decade????

Nelly 14

You obviously didnt have a season ticket when Walter Smith was the manager, now that was dire. Or even Mike Walker who did his best to get us relegated.

So finishing in the top 7 for most of Moyes tenure has made you give up your season ticket, unbelieveable.

I sometimes get frustrated that at home we dont play 2 out and out strikers. But 4-5-1 has served Everton well over the last 10 years and like a lot of managers Moyes sticks with something that works, and you cant argue that our league placings bear this out.

But players make the main difference not tactics, and those who can afford the best players are usually the most succesful, and this applies all over the world not just here.

Ian #6 and #12, I have to disagree with your analysis wholeheartedly. On the most fundamental level, any manager worth his salt would want to play to his players' strengths. Moyes is simply incapable of doing that.

You say that it's "nothing to do with tactics" but the "players available", and that because Moyes doesn't have the $$ to buy Drogba, he has no choice but to use Anichebe, or that he has to play Rodwell and Billy on the wings because there's no one else. Well, isn't a manager supposed to come up with the tactics that maximise the strengths of the resources at his disposal while minimising the weaknesses? Otherwise, why bother having a manager?

Based on the premise that you've established, we could simply get a monkey to slot the players into a predetermined formation, week in, week out, and not have to worry about their strengths and weaknesses - which is what Moyes does with his beloved 4-5-1!

As for your notion that the reason Man City and Man U are doing well is 'cos they spent big money, while Aresenal, Spurs and us aren't because we're skint, well, then I must've missed big-spending QPR's purchases before Tony Fernandez took over as Chairman, because we LOST to them. At Goodison.

Oh, and Man City didn't simply become more attack-minded just 'cos they have more attack-minded players now compared to last season. It could also be that Mancini is now playing to his attack-minded players' strengths by adopting a more attack-minded formation, which in turn makes his team "more attacking". Whereas last season, Man City were defensive because the manager played to the strengths of his defensive-minded players - by adopting a defensive formation.

So, yes, tactics do play a part, not just players, and unfortunately, Moyes simply fails to deliver in the tactics department.

Ian thats a pretty lame statement Anichebe must be better than Vellios, based on what exactly? Iain Turner has matched Anichebe's goal count for the season, let's see if it takes him another two years to get his next goal.

As for the OP, Moyes doesn't have another gameplan up his sleeve and thats his achilles heel, if it doesn't work he's knackered, great managers know how to change the game plan for each game and during games too, Moyes is only ever reactive and most times to try to get back into a game rather than sitting back to defend a lead.

Wayne, non of the other strikers were fully fit, which is probably why Saha was awful when he came on. Moyes explained as much in an interview only saying that it was clear to see Arteta wasn't fit to play when he came on.

Any way i could argue that when Fellaini came on we began to take hold of the game again and had Cahill scored the good chance he had when Fellaini but him through we could be talking about what a genious Moyes was for not putting a striker on. As it happend Cahill fucked up which is probably why he's been dropped the last 2 games. Then again that cant be true because according to people on here Moyes doesn't drop his favourites...

I ge sick of this Fergie worship.

It must be really hard to manage a team that cost zillions then turn around when things are going badly and see a bench that`s worth more than our club.

Moyes has never ever had a team that didnt contain 3-4 players that were not up to the job, yet despite the millions other managers have to spend.

Mancini has never beaten him, not so much as a draw.

Anceloti, couldnt manage it.

Fergies multi million pound squad took their biggest battering for years by Moyes`s bagain basement team - not to mention getting dumped in the semi`s.

Liverpool were put to the sword last season and were lucky to get a draw at Anfield despite riding on the crest of Dalgliesh`s return.

And poor old Arry has been systematically battered by Moyes down the years.

It doesnt matter how you set up if your players play like Neville, Jagielka, Hetinga, Cahill, Arteta and Beckford have played this season you will stink, simple as.

Moyes is responsible he has seen this lot underperform for three games now, its up to him to weld the axe.
None of these players should play next time except Heitinga at CB.

"Lacks tactical nouse" my arse.

How the fuck do you think he can outfox some of Europes top coaches on a regualr basis with a budget of Fuck all if he lacks tactical nouse ?

Ian
From reading some of your comments on this thread-I bet if you played Football Manager you would be awful and get relegated with Southport or Skem.

Scathing riposte there David...no doubt you'll be hearing from Ian's mammy any time soon!

Dave Wilson,

Brilliant post mate.

Moyes has got us to a cup final, has got us into Europe, has stabilised the club {on the playing side at least} has made some decent signings, but... someone once made a remark about test match cricket, saying that it was five minutes of excitement packed into five days play, that's what our seasons are like under Moyes, 4 5 1 at home against QPR...Jesus....

Dave you've just cemented my claims about our tactics, my point is we have the quality which is apparent against the bigger clubs we seem to play well showing that we have the tools, maybe when the pressure is off the players seem to step up to the standard that is being played however why can't Moyes utilise the talent in the side to rip apart teams of much less quality than ourselves?. The players seem to crumble when expectations are thrust upon them, i think Moyes's defensive tactics are appropriate against the bigger sides, i just think he needs to show more faith in the players when playing against weaker sides and attack especially if they want to park the bus.

Rob, you are right the manager is supposed to ?come up with the tactics that maximise the strengths of the resources at his disposal while minimising the weaknesses? But if most of your attack minded players are injured and most of the others are championship and league one standard players from the academy or brought in on a free the best you are going to get out of the team is a championship standard performance with defensive tendencies. I would like to see you manage a team of defenders and have them playing great attacking football.

Against QPR we had a back 4 of good quality defenders, two more defenders in midfield in Heitinga and Rodwell, Osman who in my opinion is a championship player who has played well for about 4 months of his entire career at Everton. A league 1 player up front in Beckford. Only a 17 year old kid and Cahill were fit enough attacking players who i would argue are premiere league quality, unfortunately Cahill had a mare which happens to players from time to time, especially if you don?t have any assistance. The subs on the bench were either not fit or even worse than the players on the pitch.

Do you honestly believe that QPR?s strongest team would beat Everton?s strongest team? Both teams were weakened by injuries and illness, but I think we were missing the more significant players. Based on what I saw, I thought we were the better side; I can only think of the one chance they had in the entire game and scored. We hit the bar and should have had 2 penalties. They beat us 1-0 on the day. On 6 other days out of the week I am sure we would have beaten them.

As for this non sense about the 4-5-1 system, from what I see every team in the league plays 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. Unless a team is getting beat they might throw on another forward or if they are winning they might bring on another defender depending on what is available to them on the bench.

Are you trying to tell me that if Moyes had just signed Aguaro and Nasri that our football wouldn?t suddenly become more attacking? The reason ?Mancini is now playing to his attack-minded players' strengths by adopting a more attack-minded formation, which in turn makes his team "more attacking" is because he is not going to buy a £30+m player and leave him on the bench, especially if he comes on in a game against Swansea and changes a game and scores 2 and sets one up, it doesn?t take a genius to decide to play him instead of a holding midfielder.

I think it is a lot easier to ?adopt a more attack minded? approach when you have a lot more attack minded players worth millions of pounds. You say yourself ?last season, Man City were defensive because the manager played to the strengths of his defensive-minded players - by adopting a defensive formation.? Isn?t that what Moyes is doing, ?playing to the teams strengths of his defence minded players by adopting a defensive formation??

Gavin
?Anichebe must be better than Vellios, based on what exactly??
Based on the fact that Moyes sees him every day in training, based on the fact that Anichebe scored in pre season and Vellios didn?t, it?s not much to go on, but that is what it is based on.

There can be absolutely no doubt that Moyes turned us around from annual relegation candidates to European football challengers . You will recall that he wanted to lower the average age of the squad. He wanted "young hungry players". He did, and we started getting results and became a top 6 side. However, Those players he brought in have gotten older and instead of replacing them he continues to play them, even out of position, because they are "his" players. He plays the same tactical formation as a lot of other managers but hasn't got the players to do it.

Most posters seem to agree that we have players who should be moved on based on age and value. Arteta (fantasic player 2 years ago) will never be the same afer his injury. The proposed swap for Bendner would give us a decent young centre forward with European credenntials. Give Bily a shot in that playmaker position. Have Felli in the holding role where he excels. Sell The Jag to the Arse and let JH play in his favoured position.

Players playing in their correct positions can perform in Moyse's preferred formation. He should be prepared ro sacrifice his favourites for the good of the team as a whole

David, I have never played Football Manager, I used to be more of a FIFA man a few years back until I had to grow up. But I was never relegated. ;-)

'It has nothing to do with tactics' ? quite possibly the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on this site.

A definition of....... STALE:
1. Having lost freshness, effervescence, or palatability:
2. Lacking originality or spontaneity: a stale joke.
3. Impaired in efficacy, vigor, or spirit, as from inactivity or boredom.
4. Having lost effectiveness or force through lack of exercise or action.

(thefreedictionary.com/)
I think that sums up Moyes pretty well to be honest.

Ian that'll be the same Moyes that saw Coleman in training for three months before he bothered his arse to put him on the wing, remind me again where Coleman plays now? Old emapty argument Ian, what the fuck does he see in Anichebve over Beckford in training? Neville got more goals than Anichebe last season, then again so did most of the EPL including defenders.

John #25

Couldnt disagree more, Tactics are fine when you come up against a team that wants to win, even if - as in Moyes`s case - you have inferor players . . . but if you have a team that comes with the sole intention of stopping you playing all the tactics in the world wont help you.

You need a Rooney or a Tevez to kick down their door.

Gavin that will be the same Coleman that had a "career threatening blister" which delayed his entry into the 1st team. That will be the same Coleman that we would not have in the first place had Moyes not brought him to the club for a few hundred thousand pound.

Gavin, I am not a fan of Anichebe, I am one of his biggest critics, I can't bare to see him on the team sheet, but let's be fair to Moyes here, Anichebe and Beckford are both awful and would not be in the Everton squad if they didn't come on a free or through the academy.

Beckford had his chance against QPR and did fuck all and we lost. Anichebe took his chance and scored against Sheff Utd and so earned his chance against Blackburn.

Ah the old "stats" coming out about Anichebe again.

Gavin You keep wanting to spout this shite about how many appearances he has made and want to overlook the fact that most of them have been the closing stages of the game and the majority of them have been on the wing . .try to understand the job he is given. Strikers get into the box

Anichebe -when he isnt playing on the wing - is occasionaly played as a target man, he is there to recieve the ball, usually with his back to goal, occupy the center backs and free other players up.
Beckford is a different player, he has a goal in him, but he couldnt occupy a karzi.

I said last week that we lose far more when Vic isnt playing than we do when he is. He may not be Messi but he did well in midweek and our only decent moments on Saturday came from him. STILL you single him out.

If you really want to know why Anichebe is playing take another look at the QPR game, you will not see two worse performances than Cahill and Beckfords.

If Anichebe is half as bad as you make out then Shame on those two for being left out

I mean, I think this post does have some sense. But I think injuries have hindered us, that's why Heitinga is playing centre midfield, when I'm pretty sure Rodwell should be playing there if fit.

But what I think Moyes doesn't do with these tactics is play to our strengths with the players we have now. I think quite clearly that all of our creative players are not wingers at all, they are central. Gueye is the only winger.

So is it possible to play a central formation? A diamond formation or something? People can go all "Football Manager" as they like on me, but they do exist.

Ciaran's spot on with his statement, tactics of course matter.

And with regards of the whole Anichebe argument, he played well against Sheff but crap against Blackburn. But then again, most of the team played crap against Blackburn. So to solely criticise Anichebe isnt very fair.

But to be honest, I'd like Vellios to have his chance in the next game. We do have options (not very good ones) up front, so why not give them all a go? I mean, Vellios cannot do worse than Beckford or Anichebe to be honest in their past performances.

Didn't Moyes spend nearly 10m on Bily... the slowest "winger" on the planet? Didn't he also spend around 6m on Johnny... to play him on the bench or out of position?

So don't give me this bullshit about his hands being tied and having to "make do" with what he's got.

He has had years (and yes, money) to sign players who possess the one thing we lack the most - pace - and yet he has wasted money on the wrong type of player.

He has done wonders in the past, and I salute him for everything he has done for our club... but it's time for new ideas and a fresh approach.

We are dismal to watch. Moyes is fully accountable for this in my eyes. No excuses.

#13@Ian

At least David is good at playing Championship Manager or Football Manager. You give Moyes Barcelona in CM and you can bet the house he'll get them relegated!

Anichebe is the worst player I have seen in an Everton shirt for the past 15 years. Can't score, can't dribble, goes down like a sack of potatoes despite being built like a tank, no vision and the list goes on. An utter waste of $ and space.

Moyes' tactics may have gotten us into Europe and one FA Cup final but he has won nothing. Boro and Fulham reached the Europa League final but Everton could not even get past the quarter-final. Even Portsmouth has won a FA Cup and Birmingham the Carling Cup. Everton under Moyes? Dull meaningless football and ZERO trophies. He is as obstinate as Wenger! At least Wenger sets out his team to play attractive football. Moyes sets up Everton to play rubbish football. Moyes, please go. Just go. Thank you for your sterling service but please, just fuck off.

With a nod to kevin #23

Dave Wilson.

Total Bollocks mate.

Also, with a nod to the facetube thumbs up 'like'

' Like' ... all those who slag off, ' keep it tight and pinch one ' in any way shape or form.

Rob Teo @ 1

Called it right, no need for anymore.

Moyes does it his defensive way with the players he's bought - some agree - I think it's bollocks.

Last season to start off with we played well but got unlucky and lost and everyone moaned this season we have played badly but got lucky and won and everyone moans!!

Of course we would like to play well and win but you don't always get what you want.

Although Moyes' tactics are ofetn hard to fathom i do have a little sympathy with the playing people out of position. I mean who else are we meant to play on the wing? The two obvious choices Seamus and Gueye are injured and he hasn't been given money for almost 3 years to buy a winger so what can he do?

All good managers play players in different positions when circumstances dictate. I remember sir alex playing P Nev in CM in a huge game against Arsenal many moons back. There was massive criticism before the match started but he had a stormer against Viera and they won.

Sam #44


You could also argue that after nearly 7 years of playing the same formation, he should of been able to coach the team in being able to play at least 1 different way. Surely 7 years is enough of the same thing!!.

Why has he set the team up to only play effectively over a number of games with a striker we cannot afford/ do not possess?

If you only have 2 genuine wide players on the books, WHY would you continually and solely play with a formation that cannot cope with the loss of just 1 of them? Why not adopt a formation/ tactics that do not require genuine wide players for these games and utilise the ridiculous amount (Compared to other positions!) of CM's more effectively?

The manager is paid handsomely for providing the same show which has been running for the last 7 years. Why keep paying money if you know every scene, minute by minute?

There is a lot of substance in the OP.

Brian...yes I did have a season tkt during Walter's reign as it clearly states in my post....admitedly didn't have one thro' Walker's because I was playing myself in those days.

Part of a team's tactics are playing to the strengths of the p[layers you have...not consistently playing them out of position rendereing them ineffective and getting the crowd on their back...this is something Moyes does on a regular basis.

It took him two seasons to play Fellini in his proper position where he flourished....before thjat the majority thought he was shite and a massive waste of money...and what has he done now ...put him back up front... don't even get me started on Bily.

Yes he's got us to semi-finals and finals but he's bottled every one...he's flattered to decieve...If your happy with the way the team plays, not winning a trophy and finishing 7th every year then that's up to you...personally i think if he was more adventureous in his style of play then THIS current squad of players could, should and probably would win alot more games...

I make no apologies when I say his tactics of.."stay tight, try and nick one then defend our own box and hope we hang on to win..." are just not for me

Typified by our performance last Saturday which was absolutely awful...again

Just to add to my previous post, the 1 aspect of the team which should be at the very least on par with the rest of the league is fitness. This does not seem to be rectified from season to season and is not an isolated incident, it appears to be a recurring theme around our poorly planned pre season schedules. Another failing of the combined coaching staff at Everton FC.

I for one am fed up with the Moyes apologists who rave about his dubious success at keeping us mainly in the top 8 over the last few years. Well our red neighbours got rid of two managers during Moyes' time and they had won F.A., league and European cups between them yet we persist with an 'unsuccessful' headless chicken earning an obscene amount of money for picking terrible sides who are clueless and not PL fit. As for his 'eye for a bargain'. Coleman was recommended to him, Cahill was a player everyone knew about during Millwall's cup run, Arteta was touting for a move across Europe and Lescott was a player who was watched by a lot of clubs but they were put off by his injury list. Moyes took a gamble and it paid off so no great scouting skills there then? As for his oft lauded knowledge of the game, how can a manager have one policy that doesn't work and persist for years hoping it will come good one day? He has been lucky with players like Rooney, Rodwell and Berkley coming through during his reign but the way things have gone with the first two, I fear for Berkley's career at Everton

Andrew, i agree that there does seem to be an overwhelming lack of plan B, we particularly struggle when we go behind or when we have to break down stubborn teams.

I'm not sure that i can agree about playing formations that don;t require wide players. All formations require width one way or another and we simply don't have players to provide that width.

£360m has been spent by Premier League clubs on players this Summer. We have spent 0 perhaps if Money had been made available to Moyes in the last 2 years he would have been able to address that obvious problem. I think he thought he had when he bought Billy but clearly someone hadn't done their homework.

Hopefully when Seamus comes back and maybe Gueye we might have a few more options.

Or what about playing P nev at Lb and Baines on left wing? Just a thought....

I have always been a Moyes supporter, or ,as some would have it, "apologist", but his negative tactics and poor substitutions have now really pissed me off. We are watching MOYES team nowadays. The time when we could say thet he had to use the crap players that he inherited are gone. I've used that argument in Moyes defence myself in the past but all the players we have now are his. And this is the bit that's all wrong. Where is the width? Where are the forwards? Why so defensive all the time? I KNOW he's had less money than many clubs but he has wasted money on Bily, Kroldrup and Heitinga, all big money signings by our standards and all played out of position or just plain crap. Even Coleman is still regarded by Moyes as a full back. Take the shackles off, Davey, and give us some attacking football instead of this defensive, no forwards on the pitch crap.

If Moyes trusts his squad of players why does he stand on the sidelines all the game bawling instructions at his team.

Moyes bottled the cup final ? ? ?

Nothing to do with having to face one of the best sides in Europe at the time with a seriously weakend team. A Chelsea side that were literally cheated out of Beating barcelona over two legs.

No, "Moyes bottled it" . . .I think that says everything you need to know about the credibility of some of the crticism levelled at him.


On second thoughts I think I`d rather listen to the Fergie worship

Dave Wilson, when did Man Utd take their 'biggest battering for years' from Everton which you keep blabbering on about?

I must have missed that one.

#46 Sam, what I am getting at is the lack of wingers in midfield, perhaps I was not clear enough. You could compensate for this with marauding full backs. I believe that Chile's national team have succesfully played with a 3-2-3-2 so that's 1 for you.

I will reiterate, WHY rely on a system that needs WINGERS when you dont have any? WHY rely on a system that requires a Drogba/ Dzecko/ Higuan when you have no chance whatsoever of buying one? You still dont have an answer do you? It is called Innovation, Dynamism, Adventure, all words sadly not in the vocabulary of our Conservative manager.

You cannot completely excuse the man's failings on money alone, is he not also responsible for coaching the players?

Mick Davies,

Spot on my son

I forgot to add that P. Neville would not be near the matchday squad if I had my wish, his best before date ran out a while ago. It's all well and good pointing and shouting but when you continually fail to pass 10 yards to feet in front of you,.... well, I for one would not be listening to his advice.

I am in agreement here. The performance on Saturday was atrocious. I have never seen the defence so poor. Jags and Distin were a mess.
So what is Moyes to do about it?
Seems to me Jags.head has been swayed by transfer talk and maybe we should let him go and never mind haggling.Distin has maybe had his last good season and should be replaced.
Rodwell should be given the chance to show he really is a defender.
Yes Fellaini no doubt is a holding midfielder and should continue there.
Up front is a continuing problem for Moyes as he just has no idea what to go with. Anytime you leave better players out for Anichebe is a real no-brainer.
Where are his goals to compare with Beckford and Saha?
Osman has no strength to match other teams in midfield and has no right being a starter. Thank God for Tim Howard again.
Manure,Redshite and Chelski soon.
Moyes needs to do something soon-maybe quit?

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with 4-5-1. Arguably, Everton invented the system under Harry Catterick when just about everbody else was playing 4-2- 4. The system almost automatically changes to 4-3-3 (or even 4-2-4) when a team is playing well and is on top. But to make it successful you have to have wide midfielders with skill and/or pace and an attacking centre-mid with the pace to get up alongside the striker when required, preferably both, and that is precisely what Everton are short of. We look a much better team when Seamus is playing well on the right and if Baines has enough time and space to do the job on the left, we can look very good indeed as long as he is effectively covered.

The fact that Rodwell has been played wide, as has Anichebe and even the Yak, demonstrates that reliable, pacey and consistent widemen are what we are short of. Cahill may once have been the attacking midfielder needed to join the striker but I don't think he has it in him anymore to do that job effectively.

I do wonder as well what goes on at Finch Farm. I get sick and tired of our static midfielders who don't seem to understand the simple matter of moving into a bit of space and making themselves available to receive the ball. It seems to be pass-and-stop football at Everton rather than pass-and-move. This is why our players more often than not are under pressure as soon as they receive the ball and, consequently, why we have so much trouble keeping it. This lack of movement is what leads to the hoofball we invariably resort to as most of the time there is no other option.

QPR played the pass and move game in midfield and ran the middle of the pitch but without being good enough to take full advantage. Pass and move not only presents opportunities to retain the ball and build up attacks but also helps to tire out the opposition chasing the ball which is exactly what happened to Everton last week. This explains something else that is all too common with Everton. Passes, mainly in midfield, being placed just a little behind the receiver causing them to stop and turn to retrieve it and slowing down any chance of build up. I used to think this was just a lack of accuracy but now I think it's more often than not the passer making that bit of space that the receiver has not had the fucking nous or the pace to find for himself.

This lack of basic understanding of the game is something I find very worrying.

Something else I find infuriating are throw-ins. Why is it that the opposition are almost invariably able to get the ball to a free man? Conversely, Everton are hardly ever able to do so and consequently often lose the ball from our own friggin' throw-ins. A good example was, again, the QPR game, with Baines at one point throwing his hands up in the air in frustration because nobody was making a move to make himself available and everybody seemed content to be a fucking spectator.

Fucking basic stuff!!

Must be brilliant been a football manager in the premier league.

According to you lot, Moyes doesn't have any tactical awareness, doesn't trust his players, is out of his depth, his players can't stand him etc etc etc

and yet he out performs other compareable clubs yet spends a fraction of the cost on wages and transfer budgets.

Doesn't say much for other managers does it

Pep Guardiola is always on the touchline making tactical changes, advising his players.

He must not trust his players as well.

Also, last night Barcelona lined up with Zero forwards so Moyes is not the only one.

Beckford does not get a game because he is fucking shite. Simple really.

He's got a touch like a lamp post.

Dave, our throw ins make me shudder. It's usually Pip telling someone to leave it and then by the time he gets near the ball, all our men are picked up and they all seem incapable of losing their men. And don't fecking start me on his Rhinoesque loop de loop thrown ins to the box.....fecking football...grrrrrr

I agree with Dave Roberts on our throw in's. Our one tactic is to throw the ball onto Felli and Cahills head and hope for the best.

Dave Wilson....not even going to bother arguing because having read alot of your posts past & present you obviously think you know alot about the game and anyone who critises Moyes is clueless in your eyes....I find you mildly amusing....

Please tell me how ANY team can score TOO EARLY....well that's the excuse that was trotted out wasn't it....we scored to early....fuck me

Every Evertonian in the stadium knew the game was over the second Drogba scored...from the minute we scored TOO EARLY we sat back and let them come at us instead of standing strong and taking the game to them...that I'm afraid is all down to the manager....not once diod he push us forward he just settled for second best and that isn my eyes is 'bottling it'

Oh and by the way I think Barcelona are the best club team in the world bar none but the team who gave them their best game last season...2nd Divison Real Betis because they didn't run scared (ala Moyes) and took the game to barca...yes they lost but at least they went down fighting...perhaps Moyes should consider doing it sometime and maybe people wouldn't be so critical of his tactics and style of play

I've learned a thing or two about football tactics. How about this one: when there's a free kick just outside your box, put all your defenders in the goal mouth and impede your own goalie. This will help the opposition to negate any offside decision in your favour and they can shoot from about 2 feet away after passing into your area.

This I learned from the David Moyes manual, as used versus Reading. Oh and Reading scored from it. To be fair, Moyes isn't really stupid; he hasn't used this since...

Mick, I suppose it would be best then not to have a wall and give them a free shot.

To be fair Nelly, Dave criticises Moyes as much as anyone else. He gives him loads for playing Cahill and we know how he feels about Jags.

There is a difference between not calling a person all the names under the sun, sometimes without justification and making criticisms about team selection and certain formations.

We can all criticise in well mannered way. You will find Dave "debates" against the baying crowd who litter their posts with expletives and unsavourary titles, like coward, tactically niave etc

Nelly

There wasn't a single Everton player who would have gotten into the Chelsea team ? not one.

Now it might suit you to dream up things like "scored to early" but it doesnt wash. If you were at Wembley you`d have seen Cahill and Neville completely sutrrender the midfield to Chelsea.

I have never called anyone clueless... but if you think we lost because Moyes bottled it...