Everton and Spurs agree fee for Pienaar

Has seasons of football left in him I reckon, injuries permitting can play as long as he wants. Personally would have no problem with a 3/4 year deal.

And Barry, of course we will be making a loss on him. That much is obvious.

I thought the only thing left to do was agree a fee with Spurs. Haven't we already agreed terms with Pienaar?

Pienaar is a top player for us but I would rather we used the money to sign Whittingham or Snodgrass. Both would be on at least half Pienaar's wages, have a lot more years in them, or could be sold on for a fee.

Shit shit shit.

I was there when Kenwright personally negotiated this with Levy . They have been in same room for weeks.

I was appalled and nearly got thrown out like the other gobshites on this forum who were there too.

Good signing for our skint club.

Good player Pienaar but he didn't make it at Spurs and I haven't heard other parties are interested.

The fact he does better here is irrelevant; he's older, takes £70k a week out of Spurs – we're doing them a favour!

I agree with others who've said we should get 4 or 5 good years out of him since he's more technique than physique and could even go on further like Giggs.

Watch out for that EFC medical, but good news all round.

He wanted to leave the club so we had to sell him. Now we can buy him back for what is still very cheap for a player of his quality. Pienaar is the one who made the mistake, not the club. Sadly the club will foot the bill.

Your willingness to slate the club you support is ridiculous. Get a grip!

An agent was on TalkSport and saying deals aren't being done as players and clubs want too much. The price drops the nearer the season starts. As I say, agent comment.

We sold him when he had only 5 months left on his contract and the fee reflected that. We have now re-signed him for a realistic fee given his age and ability. Maybe we did lose a couple of million but what were we supposed to do ? Let him go for free ? Not re- sign him ?

Most agree that he is a quality player who fits us well and we play better when he is in the team. Surely that makes it a good signing ? Look at it another way, the 18 months we saved on his salary was probably more than the increase in transfer fee so surely good business !

Can't understand why anyone would moan over this deal - I wonder whether they are the same people that were moaning that we hadn't agreed a fee ....

The fact that he does better here is the sole reason this is happening. (See the case of Bily and other failed imports.) It makes complete sense from that perspective...

My only concern: Will he show the same desire and drive as he did earlier this year? Because he was a changed player – far better than the one who left us, despite hardly getting a game under 'Arry.

Not sure that there are too many players that get better not playing and training only.

First, other clubs are interested. QPR and Sunderland have widely been credited with an interest, whilst QPR bid for Pienarr in January.

And how are we doing Spurs a favour? He was one of the best players in the league from January onwards...and if he hadnt wanted to leave, if we hadnt gone back in for him, Spurs would likely have come fourth, because when they were crying out for an experienced squad player to step up, Harry had let him go.

Pienarr was brilliant for us when he returned..he has been one of most influential players of Moyes' reign, and with a lack of creativity in the squad, we need him more than ever. Why do you have to turn it into a negative? And why, should Spurs sell a very good player for below market price? if we get Pienarr for 4-5million, it will be a good deal for all parties involved.

If Stu (517) is anywhere near right and we had an 8m quid asset and the management let him manipulate the situation so we end up with 2m - that's shit management.

Pienaar gets older we take him back on loan - a reasonable indicator he ain't wanted at spurs - so, do we negotiate accordingly freeing up the miniscule money we have for another Gibson or do we shove another 2 to 2.5 mil on what we sold him for as is rumoured?

If you support this way of business don't dare moan about why we're broke.

"Sadly the club will foot the bill." happy with this are you Phil?

It's like the credo of the 3 wise monkeys has surplanted "Nil Satis2 ....... "Hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil"

Sometimes loyalty and stupidity are confused.

At least we now have what has been obviously missing so far preseason a wide creative player who is not static.

Hopefully this will now lift the other players and the Yobo money might fund a wide right player or is that to be Big Vic?

Howard
Hibbo/Nev, Heitinga, Distin/Jags, Baines
Osman/Coleman, Gibson, Fellaini, Pienaar
Naismith
Jelavic

the joy will be diluted somewhat though if we end up selling Baines to Manure. that partnership is one of the best in the PL and if Baines is sold it might reduce the effectiveness of Piennar, he will do be a good player for us but I think its vital we keep baines now. If we have to savrifice a player which I think we might do, I would rather sell Felli as long as we got around 20-25 million for him.

The situation is this; one of the most talented creative players in the league, bar the obvious world class sort, is available for around 4million-ish, he wants to come to us, and we seriously lack creativity. Unlike any other player around at the moment, we know he works well with the team...how is this a bad deal?
Or would you rather we spend the money on a different player, with a stronger risk element, just because we sold Pienarr for under value as a result of his contract situation?

How about him being a great player and he also makes our fullback into a better player too. How is that hard to understand.

"If we have any money to spend surely it could be spent on a young player,in line with Moyes's apparent aspirations rather than this money grabbing mercenary."

You mean a player like Junior Hoilett, a could be one season wonder who plays for the love of the game, not money?

As for money grabber, he's a footballer, it's not exactly a new thing is it.

He has talent but he does not score many, although he was execllent at the end of the season. I just hope he does continue like that however 30 plus possible injury threats considering other top teams only really give 30 plus year olds small 2yr contracts. Could he not do the same in a couple of years time and end up somewhere else on a reduced 1 million deal.

I am sceptical about this move and feel that maybe we could have used the cash on an an exciting young player from lower leagues. It is really a difficult shout if this is a good move or not. However difficult it is to say , he is after all a spurs reject and the price should reflect that.

Jim Knightley ;"he got an offer from a club with strong champions league prospects, what could he do?"

Here's what, he could have shown some loyalty to the man who rescued his career and done his best to get Everton into the champion league. Obviously he believes that our failure to get in the champions league had fuck all to do with him and he was better than Everton.

Yes Jamie, most of them are money grabbers but lets's not love them for it.

But I don't think anyone said they loved him did they? Just that they're delighted to see him back.

And if you think we can get a player as good as Pienaar for the right side for £4 million then good luck.

It is a good deal for a good player...

If I remember rightly Pienaar's contract situation was raised the season prior to him going on these very pages, and discussed many times over.

If fans are tuned in surely that must go double for the people paid to look after such - as Arsenal are with Van Persie.

Can't excuse losing both ends of the bargain I get the impression decisions are made via the route of least resistance rather than best business practice at EFC, hence we always appear snookered.

One thing about loyality though...we are all fans, pretty much all of us would play for free...but how many of us would stay in our job, instead of moving jobs for a 15% or so pay-rise? especially if that job offered better potential experiences.
And how many of the toffeeweb guys were moaning at Cahill, calling him a drain and criticising his wages? although he has been a loyal servant to the club.

Most simply, Pienarr is good for us, and we are good for him. Irrespective of his decision to leave (which given our ailing prospects we can hardly blame him for), he is a super player, he will improve us, and it would be difficult to find a player of his skill and benefit for a similar fee (Assuming it is 4-4.5mil)

We don't have a pot to piss in and Pienaar will command huge wages so I think the money would be better spent on a cheaper, younger alternative like Snodgrass or Whittingham.

We should also consider that this whole situation is down to Pienaar himself who thought he was bigger than the club and proved wrong.

I'd rather have Pienaar than not but I feel no sense of euphoria over it.

There's also no guarantee that he'll pick up where he left off, after all when on loan to us last season he had something to prove as he was not getting any games, now he'll have a big contract he could go back to the player he was before he went to Spurs - big on industry but little end product. The loan period last year I think was his best ever spell with us.

Hope am wrong, but will stay satisfied rather than over the moon until the season starts.

Now if we can sort out a pacey right winger, that would get the juices flowing..

Pienaar shirts for sale on the EFC site; Squad no 22:-)

COYB

I am not sure that the committment will continue and he will continue to perform like before, shame that he wasnt loyal before, was it just the money, or was it champions league football he was interested in, probably both, any idea what the wage increase is ?

The reality of the situation is we would probably have to match the spurs wage or closely match it. I am just hoping that the hunger to succeed will continue.

IMO, Pienaar needs to deliver for a couple of seasons to definitively demonstrate that bringing him back was absolutely the right thing to do. Will still be cheering him and the rest of the lads when they take to the field.

John (#591) – Is that all Pilar cost? £750k??? That lad was quality in the euros, some team got themselves a bargain. Great player who would have been lovely for us.

But he already knows his way to the training ground, doesn't need six months to adjust to the Prem and we know he will work well with Baines, Fellaini and Jelavic. God knows what it cost, but if we've done it we can afford it. Has to be one of the best signings of the close season by any club.

I know what you mean, but the issue is with our current position, any younger player with that value is gonna be gamble, if theyre going to improve the squad. We all know how good Pienaar is, he wont need any time settling in, he has a lot of understanding with the players, he is proven. Plus you never know, after a few years, Gueye could turn to the player to take over

Its a shame Drenthe was such an idiot, because if we had him playing on the other flank, we would look quite a good attacking side.

Some frighteningly ignorant statements there. Anyone who watches Leighton Baines knows that the very thing he thrives on is a left midfielder who can cut inside. This frees up the space on the touchline from which he is so effective. Gueye is a decent player, but he lacks the intelligence to work the space like Pienaar.

As for Osman, he's been a tremendous player for us and at times he's dragged us out of the mire. Time and time again he steps up against the smaller teams, where we have struggled in recent years. It's fashionable to have a go at the local lads but you can go swivel on this one. He's not a right winger. Moyes has gathered this now I think. My only concern is the frequency at which Vic has been played there during pre-season. Neither him or Coleman are good enough first choice Everton players.

The Man Utd game is an example of what he brings to us; you can't knock Moyes for bringing him back.

You say that Pienaar didn't make it at Spurs, so we are taking Spurs castoffs - not a direct quote but I believe that was your general vein.

I'd look at it from a different perspective.

We are taking advantage of a 'Arry mistake.

'Arry favored Lennon on the right side. I think we've capitalized on Redknapp making a talent evaluation mistake. He should have moved Pienaar to the right and started him instead of Lennon. Pienaar is a better player. Lennon is all speed and run, run, run, with no end product. He eventually craps out and gives the ball away too often at the final moment of his runs. Pienaar at least creates something more often than not.

We aren't taking back a man who couldn't make it at Spurs. We are welcoming home a very valuable and talented player who mistakenly was placed down the pecking order behind Lennon by Harry Redknapp while at Spurs. He should have been moved to the right hand side and he should have been a regular starter at Spurs. He was not.

Loss = Redknapp and ultimately Spurs.
Gain = Moyes and Everton.

No matter what the financial particulars are we are talking 1-2 million either way, which shouldn't frankly make a difference if we benefit from this move in the end. Which I would put forth we are.

I understand your point completely. But looking at it through a different prism I'd say it's Spurs loss and lack of seeing Pienaar's worth and talent, and our gain.

PIenaar is class and is the heartbeat of this Everton team. There is no doubt that he was better in his last stint and carried a markedly greater goal threat than before. The age thing is irrelevant because Pienaar's game is not reliant on pace. This is a shrewd piece of business - people who question whether he will be as committed surprise me because throughout his time here, even when he was stalling on signing a contract, he always gave 110% - one of our hardest working players who always tracks back.

COYB!!!

If the express is correct and we have actually paid less than we sold him for does that change the opinion of those on here who believe it is bad business?

You are right about Adebayor being a money merchant, however, Man City should not be blameless here. In signing all the players they did, and putting them on sky high wages, it makes it nigh on impossible to shift them unless a deal is done on the transfer fee, so that the purchasing club can offer more of a signing on fee.

As I've said before, signing players now on big money makes them more of a liability than an asset. Sadly I don't think Financial Fair Play will have any teeth, as there is too much variation in payment rules across the European leagues. As an example (although this has now been removed) Spain used to allow its footballers to claim tax rebates as "entertainers". Funny how a bout of global depression focuses the mind!

If Moyes can now work his magic and get in a couple of loans/freebies as cover then I think we might just have a good season. We'll now win the league, probably won't win a cup, but there's no reason we can't bag a Euro spot and take some big scalps again this season. Hopefully we can start with Man U on opening day.

I don't see the panic right now, there really hasn't been that much transfer activity has there? Usually there's a bit of a domino effect, but other than Man U signing a couple of players, including a League One prospect, it seems most clubs are trying to offload players to make room for new incomings.

I'm not suggesting either of those players are better than Pienaar but they are younger and cheaper. I'm sure some people think Jelavic and Pienaar will guarantee CL football and the money it brings with it.

The club is in debt and losing £5m a year (not counting transfers), when will this be addressed? I don't want us to end up like Portsmouth so I am prepared for us to drop down the league a bit with a lesser squad if it means the long-term future of the club is secure.

I doubt we can even qualify for the Euro Cup without some investment so why break the bank to keep us best of the also-rans?

Why get hung up on the £4-5 million price tag? It's a fantastic bit of business.

There is a reason why Snodgrass and Whittingham aren't playing in the Premier League and neither would get into our team if we didn't have Pienaar.

I had to watch the Newcastle end of season game again last night to remind myself just how good he is for Everton, bloody brilliant, a joy to watch some of the link up play with Baines and Fellaini. Hopefully we can retain those two and have a good season playing the same brand of football as seen in that game.

We bought Jelavic. He looks like the bargain of the century now, but it was real money, and somebody knew what they were doing both on the playing and financial side. We may have taken advantage of the situation Rangers were in, but he was new to the EPL, a risk.

We bought Gibson, at a knock-down price some say, but he was doing nothing at Old Trafford in their sizeable squad. Again, good business and footballing judgement combined.

This can't happen every time, but we're on a bit of a roll right now. Let's hope that extends to Pienaar and Naismith.

If we dropped one place and lost £500k in prize money it would be off-set by the £1m saved in wages over a season by paying Snodgrass/Whittingham half of what Pienaar would demand.

I don't understand why you think the crowds would drop if we were expected to finsh 12th instead of 7th. I don't think anyone bought a season ticket last season, rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of being crowned best of the rest. There is no glory in either position and would suggest the drop in attendances last season had more to do with the dire football on display.

As for showing less ambition would mean struggling to hold on to the likes of Fellaini, well we don't just need to bring in one cheaper player instead of bringing Pienaar back. It needs to be done across the board, which means I would have no intention of fighting to keep hold of Fellaini. Once his valuation was met, I'd let him go, give the banks half the money and use the other half to buy a decent replacement on a third of his wages.

If there was any sign of a foreign investor, we would not have to take these measures in the first place, reducing the chances of something happening doesn't matter when there's little chance of it happening anyway.

Snodrass and Whittingham might not be at Pienaar's level but both would walk into our team seeing as we have no wingers and little creativity from centre midfield.

I'm only going off what the club said we're losing and I did say it didn't include transfers. Yes, we have lost players earning high amounts but they have been replaced while others have signed new, bigger contracts. Either way, we're still in debt and should be doing everything we can to get into the black.

Steven

The two players are Championship at best? That suggests they should be playing at a lower level. Whittingham is the Championship Player of the Season runner up and a couple of years a go scored 20 league goals from left wing. Snodrass is the current Leeds Player of the Season and scored 13 goals from the wing.These two are amoungst the best in Championship.

I'm not suggesting we buy shite players that will take us down, just stop paying out massive wages... we have 5 defenders on £50k plus a week, ffs.

Let's celebrate our first team and squad getting stronger and more creative and look ahead to who else we have an outside chance of snagging in the next few weeks. I personally would love to see Phillips of Blackpool - a youngster with some pace and likely a hard-working, level-headed sort too - if he's survived under Holloway!

Also, if crowds stay away if there is dire football on display, then surely the crowds are attracted if the style is better – Pienaar brings that too.

You and James Stewart (did you create a profile for him) are on another planet.

A similar situation will likely happen for the year to May 2012 (accounts are not out yet); this time swap the Bellefiled one off sale for a gain on the sale of Arteta for £10m. Doubt we made a gain on the Yak sale as it was just £1.5m and we would have a small gain on Beckford. We may have saved on wages for the likes of the Yak, Beckford, Bily, Pienaar for part of the season but we also had the likes of Drenthe, Stracq, Pienaar, McRooney, Hahnemann in as well; also we gave Fellaini a new contract on £75k a week and upped Barkley's contract. Also add to that a drop in attendances.

Expect another loss for the 12 months to May 2012 – long story short, we're currently loosing money every year which is obviously not a sustainable situation.

Here is a list of our midfielders plus non-midfielders Moyes has played in midfield:

Gibson - Heitinga - Rodwell - Neville - Gueye - Barkley - Osman - Coleman - Fellaini - Anichebe

Now there's two places up for grabs on the flanks, which two of them players are better wingers than Snodrass or Whittingham?

By the way if we dropped 10 places we would escape relegation.

Newcastle were on the TV more because they play football not because they finished above us. The fixtures are chosen for TV in advance and we finished above Newcastle last season so souldn't we have been on the TV more this season if league finishes dictate how many how a team is shown.

He looks like a player blessed with great creativity and possibly wouldn't cost too much. Just a thought.

As far as I know Robert Snodgrass is now a Norwich player so you may get resolution of your debate come November 24th.

Paul David, please note.

I must have missed that, do you know how much he went for?

I brought up those two players because I knew the first reply I'd get for suggesting we should be looking at cheaper, younger players instead of Pienaar would be "Like who?" ... but I'll drop it now.

If it were a Lambert signing rather than a Hughton one then I think it would be more noteworthy, but it looks as though the lad will get his chance to prove whether he is up to it or not.

Love the way you talk about Newcastle TV revenue as if its a fact. Actually Sky and ESPN select the first 4 months in advance August-Nov, then December and Jan is selected afterwards and then again after that or did you think that it was a coincidence that the televised games on the last day of the seaon always feature potential champions and/or relegation candidates – they're not chosen in July.

Of those MF I would have Osman, Barkley or Coleman but if you are highlighting that our MF is weak then surely that strengthens the argument for Pienaar. Added that you said 'I'm not suggesting either of those players are better than Pienaar but they are younger and cheaper' Snodgrass at £5million doesn't seem cheaper does it?

Love the way you chose to bring up the final day fixtures, the only ones that aren't decided on months in advance. Liverpool had a terrible season but you really think they will no longer be on the TV more than most? A club's fan base and style of play dictates how much they're shown on TV as well as where they finish in the league.

I don't really want to bring up other clubs' players again after having my wrists slapped by Michael but the difference in wages would mean he would be cheaper after just a few months.

Hiding behind the slap on the wrist to stop the digging you've done so far - smart move from the guy who says 'don't sign the best players sign the cheapest ones'.

By the way in terms of fan base - there aren't too many Newcastle fans outside of Newcastle.

Cardiff rejected 2.5mil for him which suggests he would cost at least 3mil and no-one knows how he would settle where as with Pienaar its a known entity.

My mates that are Spurs ST holders reckon Pienaar was on 40k there so not a ludicrous wage either.

As for the economics this is less clear because we do not have enough information. In particular fans tend to forget the effect of wages which over the course of a contract tends to outstrip the transfer fee.

There are two points to bear in mind
1. It is true that if Everton had paid Piennar what he wanted two years ago we may have ended up paying less - but I doubt it. Pienaar will be on less money now than Spurs offered him 2 years ago because his market value has fallen (he being 2 years older). The reason he left when he did was because it was his only chance for the mega pay packet at age 28. He will have to accept a substantial pay cut to come back to Everton. Hopefully he and his agent are already aware of this. Also paying big money to Pienaar may have caused inflation of other players wages (or other players to leave like Pienaar did).

2. Even if Everton would have been better off keeping Pienaar two years ago (assuming that was possible by matching Arteta's wages) that is water under the bridge and should not affect what we do now. As long as we are paying a market price for a talented 30 yr old then it does not matter what happened in the past.

On balance I think this is a good move - mainly because it is so low risk. We know he will fit in. We know he is up to standard.

What shame - I'm just happy he's coming back.

That's a point I ,too, have made before:- "Tottenham only wanted Pienaar in the first place to nullify our attacking prowess". They knew that we would be significally weaker without Pienaar, and we WERE seen as rivals for a European spot.

Re the fee: some you win; some you lose. Naismith free... Jelavic £5.5m (less if you believe some) more than makes up for paying slightly more than what we sold pienaar for.

Equally you could argue our "dog turd" performances were down to his absence.... maybe his departure was the difference in the cups or qualifying for europe!!!!

Holy moley Batman, maybe it WAS a big deal!!

Ryan Holroyd is right, you win some you lose some. Ultimately it looks like we have a fine player back on our books. Not every deal can be a Gibson.

I'ver been thinking this very point for some time now. It had to come - the reality that money/players does not grow on trees - that there is a need to balance the books - that we have to look at every penny.

To try and predict the relativity of financial success based on who comes in etc etc is impossible...maybe Pienarr will be worth one place next season...or maybe he will score the winner in the cup final, and be worth far more than the resulting prize money...it's ultimately all impossible to predict. But there's one thing that is not in doubt; Pienarr improves this team. If we went for a Championship player, there would be no guarantee that they'd step up, no guarantee that they'd work well with the other players, whereas we know Pienarr does improve us, does work well with the team, and in the second half of last season was one of the stand out players in the entire league.

The youth model is always the best in football..but as Arsenal have proved, it's a double-edged sword. Pienarr brings experience and class, and given the complete lack of creativity in our squad, we cannot risk bringing a championship player unproven at the top level. We are doing ok with the age of the team...Coleman, Rodwell, Barkley, Gueye, Velios, Duffy will hopefully to varying degrees add something to our squad...Gibson, Jelavic, Fellaini, Heitinga, Baines and Jags are in their prime...I think we can afford to bring a 30 year old in in Pienarr, even if a younger version might idealistically be preferable. But then if Pienarr did what he did from January onwards in the prem as a younger man...we'd probaly have been outbid anyway.

I would be amazed though if Levy allows Pienarr to go for less than what Spurs paid. Levy is the worse chairmen in the league for letting players go for cheap, and I reckon the Express are completely off with that one. I expect he will cost us 4million ish.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/7952747/Pienaar-in-Toffees-medical