Neville glad to get through January

However, his public statements are excruciatingly banal and trivial and not worth a thread or Toffeeweb story.

This is unmitigated bollocks: 'I think if you look at the rest of the Premier League and the other teams who played that number of games, their players probably only played in three'. I invite you, go through the late December/January line-ups for say Manure, Citeh, Arse, Chelski, Spuds, Shite, Norwich, Stoke, and so on and so on, and find out if Skip Pip is right or wrong.

He is wrong. Another lame and limp attempt from on high to put our latest struggles in a better light. Better still, this one is rooted in a fundamental untruth.

And, really, 'most teams' 'kick on' in February when the weather and pitches are better. Put your skipper on the stage Mr Moyes, he's fucking hilarious, can't stop sides splitting here. Let's add cold weather and a poor pitch to the reasons for any disappointing performances/results that we have had. Did you look down at the pitch on Saturday skip or were you too busy looking from side to side and six foot in front of you? I'll wager that 'most teams' do not 'kick on' from February on. I have a hunch that our February might be a difficult month. I fear that Skip might have to pop up again a month from now with fresh bollocks to spout because we did not 'kick on' as much as he thought we would.

I hope I am proved wrong about that, I really do. But don' invent bollocks and depend on bollocks Neville when you next get pushed into the limelight by whoever pushes you into the limelight.

Now our bench is further depleted by the loaning OUT of Barkley and Gueye who both figured on the bench when fit.

Total boardroom 'criminal' ineptitude!!!!!!

Well, your year-by-year comparison is somewhat flawed as it depends on all things being equal. We in fact, according to no other man than the gaffer, have a better team this season, perhaps the best he has ever had under his wing. That might have some impact on your observation.

But, for the minute, let's go with your flow, your year-by-year flow. So, we have 1 games left, 2 are against promoted teams. Let's use your measurements and criterion to see what we might expect for the rest of the season to come. Eleven games can be compared to results last season in like manner to the way you like to compar eoverall results/performances. That would mean that we have to look forward to this: 2 wins, 3 draws, 6 losses, 12 goals scored, 18 goals conceded, 9 points from 12 games.

You use these literal comparisons for your own ends Mr Hudson. What do you think of this one?

Can he be honest and say that he sucks, is part of the problem, and that criminally no reinforcements have come in to help!! A little bit of honesty from this rank and file soldier would be nice. He's still the captain right??

What makes me scratch my head is that we have two far more competent midfield reserves, Oviedo and Hitzelsperger, who have seen little playing time even with Gibson out and players like Pienaar, Neville and Osman clearly tired and losing effectiveness. Even Baines followed up his midweek brilliance with a stinker on the weekend, and exhaustion has to be one reason.

I'm a big Moyes fan, but I can't figure what he's been thinking by leaving Oviedo and Hitz on the bench.

His passing sucks, but he hasn't even been the worst passer in the side. Pienaar has that distinction all to himself.

Fer would have been replacing Osman in the run on side I would have hoped.

Makes us easier to defend against, close down Felli and Jelli and our goals dry up, except for Bainsey's set shots. Pienaar 4 goals Osman 3 Naismith 3 Mirallas 1 Gibson 0 Neville 0. Not a big return from Midfield. Luckily Anichebe has chipped in with 5 and counting, this is one of our better recent seasons as far as goals for is concerned and we are on par with the other top sides as far as goals against go.

Where Man Utd can concede as many as we do they always manage to pull a winner out of the bag, we tend to draw where a win is there to take.

Your prediction, whist based on an unlikely & exact repetition of last season's head-to-heads, is also one seemingly born out of abject pessimism; A Stygian gloom definitely not shared by myself.

How impetuous of me to highlight our team's improved form!

Barkley should have been re-called once the Fer deal went south.

Jelavic could have been rested for more games if Moyes had played Vellios.

While Fellaini was suspended, Barkley should have been his direct replacement.

Heitinga should not have been allowed back until he showed good form for the reserves, and Duffy should have been preferred to Heitinga.

Neville has a fair and valid point to David Moyes: start using your WHOLE squad because if you don't then the team will suffer!!!

He would be branded 'disgraceful,' 'arrogant,' jumped-up,' etc..

Instead, Along with Moyes, the answers he gives are frequently scorned, maliciously-skewed, over-analysed & coupled with quite bitter critique. There are those who even fret over Moyes's apparent 'body-language,' and give it the whole warped, OCD scrutiny...

As with 99% of interviews of this type, it is simply generic filler.

Maybe the ''gruelling'' fixture list is more of a worry to him because of his age and the fact he cannot sustain 90 minutes anymore against younger players.

Many other clubs have gone through the same period with many games. It's all part of the Prem setup so excuses like that are not acceptable. Yes Everton have a smaller squad but errors on defence such as Heitinga has made are down to mediocrity. After all, Heitinga hasn't been playing much like the other defensive players so he couldn't have been mentally and physically ''spent''.

So either all teams perform at a lower level (hence no excuse for some of our recent results) or other teams don't suffer from having so many games (so what are we doing wrong?).

Neville really should just keep it shut.

He doesn't bitch or whine and is a natural leader. He's obviously aware of his limitations and if and when dropped he will get his head down and do his best from the bench or whichever role for which he is required. You won't see him sulk or whine like some, I consider Neville to be an old fashioned professional and the game would be a better one if there were more with his enthusiam and attitude.

'My prediction'. Are you that challenged? 'My prediction' is last season's results and it is not 'my prediction'. Pay attention: I wrote "Let's use your measurements and criterion to see what we might expect for the rest of the season to come." By this, I meant let's have the sort of literal comparison that YOU indulged in.

You compared last season to this by literally transplanting performances and results. Read carefully: I said this is not credible. But, I said, read this, let's do a Hudson and apply the same sort of method to the games yet to come that you applied to the game that have passed.

Can you understand that.

"Prediction', you really are a little foolish at times aren't you Kevin. 'Prediction'! Ha!

The moral of the tale Mr. Hudson, don't indulge in stupid facile comparisons if you are not prepared to have it thrown back at you. Oh, and the learn the difference between 'prediction' and using the Hudson style of lifting something from somewhere without qualification to make literal comparisons with, in this case, the record of Everton FC in Feb 2012 and 2013.

It's not rocket science, trust me. Dear me, 'prediction'.

Might explain a lot about Everton's inefficiency at finalising transfers.

Could we have more points? Possibly; we could also have had less as well, we haven't got a squad to negate lots of games in a short period of time and as Neville said it is natural to have a dip in form.

What should happen then is the fans get behind them and support them — not spout drivel and moan at every decision or scapegoat — be it Pip, Osman, Vic or the latest one, JH... some even moan at Pienaar and Fellaini!!

Some people have very short memories in my book and have a vastly negative mindset regardless of the facts. Pip is a case in point: we have more shots, possession and score more goals and concede less when he is in the team, but that will not satisfy the naysayers, will it?

The same happened at Bolton when our fans decided to boo the manager over Heitinga's substitution of Jelavic; turned out he was right and they were wrong! Same applied on Saturday, Mirallas is NOT fit so playing him for 60 mins is fine by me, regardless of the status of the game. He went off at 1 - 3; it ended up 3 - 3, so Moyes was right again, Yes? Sadly for the negative mindsets no he wasn't.

What we have achieved this season is to turn the defeats (10 at this stage last season) into draws; the next stage is to turn the draws into wins, and that will require more investment. Turn your ire off the players and the manager and direct it at the real culprits: Kenwright and his cohorts.

Finally, fellow blues, cheer up, for fuck's sake, we are doing well and have played really well; we are above Liverpool and Arsenal, still in FA Cup, still have Fellaini and Baines, have 13 more points than last season, on the threshold of a possible CL place, so do us all a favour and leave your negativity until the end of the season will you.

Welcome Thomas.

I simply pointed out that we're in a stronger position than this time last year.

We have scored more goals, won more games & subsequently have more points points on the board.

..Ergo, we are enjoying a better season.

Why would this bother you..?

At least he has added something to thread rather just a bland, blind and lame ridiculing of an opinion.

As for 'hard and fast evidence' I'm not sure what you're expecting me produce? A signed affidavit perhaps? I would suggest it is evident by the style of football he plays: simple pass and move, works hard off the ball and using the the fact that he is the most experienced and decorated player on the side as captain.

I would reiterate that, in my opinion, a full strength side would not include Neville in the starting 11 but it is difficult to argue that he has not been a successful signing and added to the team since he arrived. As Thomas says, the statistics support this.

Just as long as he NEVER EVER tries to dive to win a free kick again!

As a long standing and very blue tinged Evertonian I am also a realist and we do not have the squad size, the quality of players nor the money to improve significantly either of those, to be champions nor, in my opinion, a top four side.

5th or 6th best is what we are and where we are and, whilst I'm not the biggest Moyes fan tactics and approach to big games wise, I don't think we would be anywhere near that without him.

If we had consistently plodded along all season and then finished in 5th or 6th there would have been a lot less complaining.

But, on the other hand this really could be the season for somebody different to crack the top 4 and we are best placed at the moment

Think about it - you KNOW the people who run our club are hopeless bullshitters who invest nothing, but you continue to support the club.

Surely, if this were any other business, providing similar levels of performance or 'satisfaction', if you were realistic, you would have thrown your hand in.

Being realistic, you would have told yourself that the service provider is corrupt and useless and can never provide you with satisfaction you desire and consequently, you'd throw your hand in.

But you don't.

Instead (again, like the rest of us) you live your life in a permanent state of wishful thinking.

"If we buy him and sell him and they drop points to them and we can get a win against the other shower, we could..."

There are four year olds who are more realistic than Evertonians.

nb: I also believe those who describe themselves as 'positive' or 'glass half full' cry themselves to sleep every night).

I guess he's got a point. We are very lightweight. Some, through injury or suspension, have had the odd break, but for the likes of Jags, Distin, Baines, Osman and Pienaar it has been go, go, go all the way.

.

The fact that we've used the fewest squad players says it all, and not to get two or three in during January was criminal. A freshen up would've done us the world of good.

If Mark isn't a realist and you are then how do you "realistically" see us making the next improvement step given that it will need a substantial investment in new playes.

A miracle? The Good Fairy? A Blue Billionaire?

Doesn't sound reality based to me.

Everton played 42 league matches per season, plus FA Cup matches. Dont think that the Mickey Mouse League Cup was around then. There was also the European Cup and Inter Cities Fairs Cup.

My point is that all first team players would be expected to play up to 50 matches per season.
What is so different about the modern game? Why do players need to be rested? Why cannot they be fresh after the Christmas/January matches. It was always a busy period.

If Phil Neville's comments are to be taken seriously then a mid-winter break should be considered, like in many parts of Europe.

Perhaps expectations are far higher and there is a difference between those who can make use of a bigger squad and those who can't when it comes to performance? In the 70s & 80s and before no-one had a big squad so all were in the same boat. Relative to each other teams where not too different – all where knackered at the same time after Xmas. Nowadays teams with big squads are far fresher after Xmas and tend to win more against those with smaller squads? Consequently the smaller squads (i.e. Everton) complain about tiredness.

Today the stakes are also much higher in terms of the money involved. With the rationalisation of the economy, an attendant rationalisation of the game of football has come about. Also have a look at how the formations have evolved. They started off with 2-3-5, whereas nowadays 4-5-1 is in vogue, soon to be superseded by 7-3-0.

I envisage a future where football goes the the same way American wrestling. Instead of footballers you will have actors and instead of genuine football fans you will have a lynch mob for crowd, ejaculating finely choregraphed cheers and jeers. Boards of bankers and politicians shall determine who the victors and the vanquished are to be. And woe betide those who dare to oppose their executive orders: their boot will be on your neck.

Sky has turned football into a circus, from the way they present the teams to how they show the replays. Developments far worse await us.

"Instead (again, like the rest of us) you live your life in a permanent state of wishful thinking".

Martin Mason (178) you respond - "If Mark isn't a realist and you are then how do you "realistically" see us making the next improvement step given that it will need a substantial investment in new players".

Eh?

What do you mean - 'and you are'?

Martin if you read WHAT I WROTE rather than some post that exists only inside that empty Quality Street tin head, you would have immediately picked up on the line - 'Like the rest of us".

See it now?

Or more importantly, do you understand it in the context?

ie: That I (ME!) ALSO live in a none realistic world as regards Everton - that we ALL do.

So your - "If Mark isn't a realist and you are" is total bollocks isn't it and (now) proven so.

(why do so many who want to be a smart-arse only get the arse bit right?).

Which brings me to Phil Quill (173). who states..

"Eugene #169. "If we buy him and sell him and they drop points to them and we can get a win against the other shower, we could..." This could have been lifted from a Man City disgruntled fan forum.

Er..yes, well I don't know much about Man City fan forums so I'll take your word.

The POINT was, I used it simply to illustrate how Everton supporters (nb Martin: MYSELF INCLUDED!) look unrealistically at our team and that by virtue of our support, none of us can be realists (Jesus, it wasn't complicated)

Phillip you add...

"Everything about Everton seems to upset you quite a lot. I know that's none of my business but I do wonder how you derive any pleasure from your support"

Well you're right, it IS none of your business, however not to be impolite, I will reveal that one way I derive pleasure from my support.

To engage in a TW thread with Everton supporters who can follow a very simple point (rather than say with those looking settle some old score).

Looks like I'm fucking goosed today doesn't it.

I realise that these exchanges must test your patience as you dispense your pearls to such an inferior and uncomprehending congregation but bear with us – we will try to understand.

How about this for a start at understanding? I gather that you are disatisfied with the Everton board in general and Bill Kenwright in particular and you would prefer that the whole lot of them left and went somewhere else. Let's not walk befrore we can run – is this a foundation I can build on or is even this small step a complete misunderstanding of your position?

Personally, I find Eugene's posts intelligent and amusing. So there.

Mind you, both Managers continued to pick him in the team so maybe he thought they were having him on.

As for aggressive I say he takes no shit - fair enough in my book.

Mr Perfect thinks he is so much better than the rest of us. News flash, he also makes mistakes and has his own views, which are shared by some and opposed by others.

Some people always berate and try to belittle fellow blues on this site. Personally I do not see the value in his attitude, but do find the occasional wry smile in his views. Why he has to try to fall out with others is probably for the psychologists to analyse.

As for Pip, he has been a topic of debate, but the facts are quite clear, he is not a great player but strangely he does add to our team.

He doesn't really need me to back him so I'll fuck off.........

Ok before this gets....odd(er).

Did anyone actually read my first post on this? (169).

It really was VERY gentle stuff, nobody got slagged and I included myself in the only thing that could be construed as criticism.

To repeat - "Instead (again, like the rest of us) you live your life in a permanent state of wishful thinking".

Did I then react harshly (or too harshly) to people who's comments showed they had OBVIOUSLY not read (properly) my opinions?

In my view, did I fuck, but you're more than welcome to disagree.

By the way Dean you say..

"Mr Perfect thinks he is so much better than the rest of us"

Nonsense - the word 'us' suggests I think I'm better than everyone on TW.

The reality is I'm actually quite humble and the only person I think I'm better than is you.

Er.....COYB!

The 'Why are you always so cross?' is a classic line meant to bring someone with a little passion down a peg or two. I get it all the time from Kev Hudson and the gang and it always amuses me. Apparently I now need 'anger management' classes. Some others might need sharp interventionist Clinical Psychology to stop them always thinking in one dimension when other things point elsewhere.

Can I suggest that we might have an ongoing thread where we all report what we are currently reading and what we value most in the world of books as this would put us on a level playing field and we can see where all of us are coming from. Perhaps we could call it Toffeeshelf?

Simon Lloyd and Dean Adams - that sums up our erstwhile captain pretty well. Effective and uncomplicated at his best; shocking at his worst. Question for the rest of this season - is he in an inevitable and irreversible decline or can he still produce the 'goods' when called upon?

Go forth Eugene, and sin no more.

Blessed are those on TW who hunger and thirst for a trophy – any trophy, FFS – for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are The Toffees, for they shall ride in an open top bus at the end of the season, brandishing the FA Cup, having already qualified for the Champions League.

Sorry, I don't know what came over me. It was like I had a vision...

Now we are still playing using very few players but all the other teams are using more and so are fresher and have more options from the bench that can change games.

If you said 'the large grey animal with the trunk', an elephant could be forgiven for thinking you were talking about him.

You said Mr Perfect so what was I supposed to think?

Probably best in future just to name the person you're talking about - you can see the confusion you cause by not doing so.

What do you expect from that? Effing Frost/Nixon? It shouldn't be censored like some football Pravda (Brian Hill) nor should it be taken as some club conspiracy to try and blind us with mind control (ever seen some of those Apollo moon hoax believer posts???).

Then see how the thread developed – pure gold entertainment with the usual factions and slanging matches!!

I'd suggest you either do as I did and read the first two lines and yawn, or read it all and then consign it to the bin, not turn into a TW 'Angry of Mayfair'.

Jeez, some of you guys are hard work!

Another sad thing is that Moyes has no faith in any other player on the books to take his place much like his blind faith in Osman. This is what is keeping Everton as just another top four wannabes.

We were encouraged by a few good early season results until we lost Gibson and Mirallas and it's been a struggle since. Luckily other teams results have kept us in with a shout and things may improve but with the poor form of Jela and the defensive chinks I doubt if we can nail down fourth.

Jelly stops scoring and we all turn into animals! You hear me talking Croatia boy? You SEE what you've done to us?!!

No worries, I bet you Moyes's Salary Tony Hibbert will power in a howitzer from 30 yards in his comeback against Utd!

......I'll just get my cassock.

Derek Temple
Jimmy Gabriel
Dixie Dean
Walter Abbott
Apostolos Velios
Lucas Neill
Harry Makepeace
struggling now...
The Moyesiah...

I think Si Cooper took my cassock

As ever, an unimpeachable, cogent & rational response, that again makes total sense.

(To anyone with double-digit I.Q still grappling with the concept of opposable thumbs).

Please don't take a bow for being a passionate Evertonian as it isn't unique to you.

Also, to accuse me of 'one-dimensionalism,' when I've yet to read ANY post from you that doesn't either berate Everton Football Club, it's manager, captain, or supporters....is about as glaringly-redundant as it gets.

If you wish to read this ardent Moyes supporter giving an alternate take on our manager, then please look up the 'Moyes The Constantly Curious,' thread, in which I list about a dozen complaints about the manager that I have.

(Nb: Just to demonstrate that I'm not as one-dimensional as you wrongfully-assert).

Back to you: Did I mention we're the 5th best team in England...?!!

...according to you "other things point elsewhere..."

(Nb: Facts versus Paul Ferry's hypothesised, alternative, doomsday scenarios).

An adult regressing to adolescence; No kidding - my 8 month-old son appears to have a sturdier grasp on reality.

Chin-up.

You, however, have not earned my praise, if that is what you mean by fans. If not, shut the fuck up, and don't conflate clashing swords with you and your ilk with bashing fans, the vast majority of whom do not trot out your one-dimensional delusional trash.

And, secondly, Neville wants to stick around a little longer. Oh my. I feel like that little Fella in Dickens, Tiny Tim is it, God help us all and God bless us all. Hey Hudson is it okay to be negative? Fact: Neville is my least favourite starter, sideways bleeding crab. Cannot bear watching him in midfield and my big fear Saturday is that he will be there next to Gibbo. That header last week that started an attack for the other side: funny in retrospect as no goal was scored but jawdroppingly horrfying at the time.

If Neville had the decency and dignity that Moyes has in buckets then he would hang his boots up.

Cue Hudson and the like diving on here to say what a great skip he is: he claps, he shouts, is great at running up to refs, he does boss interviews. We always do better with him than without him, blah, blah, blah. Oooo you are so negative Ferry; so, so, well, beastly.