Fellaini talks refs, hair and Shawcross

I don't think he was unlucky to get sent off at Stoke. I do think that Shawcross, whose defending style I loathe, was lucky to stay on the pitch. There's a difference.

Most of Fellaini's bookings have been justifiable. In fact, I think there have been a few occasions when he has been lucky to stay on the pitch.

Either something's been lost in translation here or the weight of hair is affecting his brain.

He deserved his bookings when he first came and he would probably have had more if he played in Spain or Italy. He is far more disciplined now and the Shawcross incident was a blip, I think.

A lot of defenders get away with murder and Shawcross is one of the main ones. At least our two centre-backs do not get booked very often and still manage to do great jobs.

A few months after he signed, I got a call from a mate who was on train to London (on a Sunday night).

He says (whispers) "I'm on the train, I'm in first and Fellaini is in the same carriage. He's sitting there with some blonde scrubber and he's got no shoes and socks on and no shirt"

I said 'what do you mean no shirt?'

He (whispering louder) says "No fuckin' shirt - what do you think I mean?"

It's an image that has stayed with me - a very tall, afro'd, hawk-faced man of Moroccan heritage, shirtless, shoeless, sockless and sitting with a 'scrubber' in the 1st class carriage of a Virgin train.

I said to my mate 'go and say hello, tell him you're a blue, wish him good luck' etc.

He said "Fuck off!"

I can just see that spiv and snide of a Manager Pullis who was a student of the dark arts of football getting in Shawcross ear and instructing him to pull Fellaini all over the place and thus neuter our attack. This was the player who chopped Aaron Ramsey in half with a gut wrenching challenge.

Now was it your mate who told you to go forth, be fruitful and multiply, or did the man with no shirt say that to your mate?

Grappling in the box, niggly fouls, the 'dark arts', they're all things continental teams have been doing well for decades yet for some reason we consider ourselves to be too noble for them and then wonder why we concede a load of set pieces. Some of the world's best centrebacks were best at the dark arts of defending. Sooner our defenders learn a few tricks the better.

As for Fellaini, it's sad times when we're talking about our perceivably main threat coming from his head at a corner. Why is our entire attack built around a glorified battering ram.

We used to eulogise over the midfield artistry of Arteta but now we're complaining that some centreback was pulling Fellaini's hair and thus neutralising our attack. Worse still, people are on their feet applauding him if he is seen to be 'bouncing' defenders off him or 'throwing' them around. Perhaps some of us have more in common with Stoke fans than we might care to admit. School of Science indeed.

If players like Shawcross and Huth blatantly break the rules every week, even the best players in the world can't compete, unless the officials help them by doing their job properly.

He DID as it turned out wish the big feller 'good luck' etc.

He said Fellaini, though looking a bit nervous was very pleasant and shook his hand with great gusto saying 'sank you sank you!'

Fellaini's greatest asset is his aerial ability but top clubs just do not utilise thisin the same way that we do. They will not build a team around him as a second striker and instruct their left back to aim every ball at him, or instruct the rest of the team to feed the ball to the left back to aim at him to the detriment of their main striker. Top teams play with number tens who can turn, beat men, thread through balls, run with pace on the break...they are absolutely everywhere: Mata, Rooney, Ozil, Kroos, Iniesta, Silva, Cazorla, Goetze, Sneijder. They are all bult in the same mould, yet we have a 6 foot 4 slow midfielder apparently with a good touch who can't thread through balls, can't beat a man, and can't play on the break and we wonder why the football isn't better? No wonder Jags and Distin hoof it when they see him up there, its just inviting it. He plays well when the team plays well because he can get on the end of what they produce but any secondary striker could. When we're not playing well apart from the chance of scoring on a set piece what does he add? What did he add against Oldham or Leeds? certainly not world class performaces. Once again I wil advocate selling him in the summer and buying in genuine attacking players with pace and creativity.

"As for Fellaini its sad times when we're talking about our perceivably main threat coming from his head at a corner. Why is our entire attack built around a glorified battering ram."

Well we're talking about the physicality of Fellaini because that is the topic of the article.

If you think he's a 'glorified battering ram' then you quite simply don't know what you're talking about. His chest control is up there with the very best in world football. He is far better at bringing a football down than he is flicking it on – so perhaps a 'glorified sponge' is a better analogy.

To be fair to Moyes, he has tried to play him deeper when he can. Fellaini prefers it there – but in my opinion he is a better player further forward.

Don't know if he needs a break but he has been rubbish of late.

Thats the way to make a player feel wanted Davy boy.

But our backs' hoofball isn't Fellaini's fault, same as it wasn't Fergusons, and Fellaini's he's a better player than you're giving him credit for. He's certainly capable of turning players and creating space with his first touch which is excellent, he's quicker than people tend to think (tall players always look slower than they are, he does cover the ground), and he's very capable of threading a through ball and does so often. No, he's not going to beat guys for pace, but neither could Zidane.

As an aside re the Pienaar comparison, Pienaar I think gets plenty of plaudits in combination with Baines, I've heard the pair of them called by commentators the best left sided midfield combination in Europe on more than one occasion this year. Pienaar yes has better close control than Fellaini but isn't as versatile a player overall as Fellaini - it's a fact that Fellaini's size and strength does make him useful in ways that Pienaar can't be.

You said Fellaini plays well when the team plays well; that could just as easily be reversed. There have been plenty of games where he has been totally dominant, against top midfields (United earlier and Arsenal last season spring to mind) and hardly just as a set-piece option.

Personally I think that, while he's generally effective in this target man role we've got him him, he's better used deeper where he can control the midfield, he's fit and quick enough to play as a box-to-box midfielder in the Viera role. Unfortunately with Cahill gone we seem to want to use him further forward all the time, yes often as a bit of a battering ram, which I think is unfortunate but again not his fault.

Didn't realise he'd been stopped from going home for Christmas.... while what he did isn't acceptable, the punishment does smack of headmaster style tactics... go and stand in the corner boy and face the wall. He'd probably have received a Dunces cap too... if they could have found one big enough to fit his noggin!

That's really going to make him want to stay, Champions League or not!

What do you want Moyes to do? - "Go on lad, get yourself home for Christmas on a 3 week paid holiday. You've earned it."

His greatest asset is his ballwinning ability in deep midfield... he's by far the best in the Prem and one of the best in Europe. Moyes isn't currently using him there because he's needed up front, but that's where he'll be playing when, inevitably, he departs for a bigger club. And his tackling has improved significantly... the cards are become less and less frequent.

Now if only his childish tantrums become less frequent. Shawcross is an ass and I don't cry for him, but Fellaini head butt was cowardly and the suspension was well deserved.

He never stops running and linking up play let alone the number of goals he scores(and with his feet).

His only weakness IMO is his poor defending from set pieces.

As regarding his pace I think his top speed when he finally gets up to it may be fairly quick, but then again Bilyaletdinov had the highest top speed in our team but he certainly wasn't pacy. Suarez's top speed is actually slow but it's his sharpenss that does for most. In and around the box its that speed over 5 yards you need and that is a pace Fellaini dos not have unlike every other player I listed above.

Matthew I wouldn't say Fellaini is more versatile than Pienaar. Pienaar can play anywhere across the midfield and even as a central deeper player. Fellaini cannot play outwide. his height gives the team an option sure but only if it is utilised but that is where fans will cry out for hoofball.

He has had some good games for us like Man U at home this season where we undoubtedly played to his strengths to get us up the park. But where is the consistency? I hadn't see that performance before or since. He's been here ages now, what has he or we got to show for it? At the beginning fo this season he was in a good bit of form probably his best for us here but although he's klept the goal tally ticking over his performances have dropped off.

I just don't see against Norwich what he is going to offer apart from a threat from crosses. If we go long he is going to be in a tussle with the centreback all day, no one picks up the second ball anyway and the football will be dire. If we play it on the deck with short passes then what is the point of him being there to 'hold it up' if we're already dominating possession? Its just another way of saying 'slowing it down'. If we're under the cosh and trying to play coutner attack how is he going to be helpful? He's a massive tactical hindrance for us and one of the main reasons we cannot progress as a footballng side playing the football that everyone wants to see that the top clubs play.

Pienaar, Osman, Baines have all been well below what we know they're capable of. Gibson and Mirallas are working back to fitness and Phil fucking Neville is insistent upon removing any forward momentum any time he touches the ball.

So what does any manager do with players out of form? Persist with them? Drop them? The answer should be 'both'. Good players are allowed off days, you should give them chance to bounce back. However there is a limit. No matter how good you are, you can't play consistently poorly for months on end and still be a guaranteed starter.

"But I've got a small squad, Phil."

No you bloody well don't, Moyes, and don't you dare raise your voice to me again! We have a squad you refuse to use. Players who are automatic starters, players who are automatic subs and players who are never given a chance. Even bloody Naismith, who I've grown to loathe, try the lad in the position he can actually play! I notice also that Osman is creeping back out on the wing...a place he spent eight years surrounded by obscurity. Do we have to go through that again?

If Ross Barkley doesn't get a game on Saturday then I'm sacking off the first team and watching the U21's for the rest of the season. That game versus 'Boro was more entertainment than I've seen at Goodison for months.

Oh, and after the game, Stubbs comes out praising the U21's and saying how if we can keep them all together this group can go on to big things. Two days later and Man Of The Match, John Lundstrum, gets loaned out to League 1 Doncaster! What is going on?! I thought we wanted this team to develop together? Are the staff on the same page or what?

Fellaini is the least of my concerns to be quite honest.

He played well with Gibson last season when he was playing the role of running forward form midfield without the defensive responsibility, but in the big game at Wembley he didn't have the pace or ball retention to deal with Liverpool's midfield (lets just forget his shambolic set piece defending in that game too). Moyes has tried him all over the midfield and this is the only position that has got the best of him. Before this season our results have always been better without him in the team.

As for Fellaini. I hate the way he gets tangled up with Pienaar and Jelavic in the final third and prefer him in a Lampard role where he can win the ball with space to manoeuvre. Sticking him high up the pitch encourages the shambles with Shawcross, Jones etc..and tempts our defenders to hoof long balls.

Yes James. His defending at set pieces is not good enough but he is a decent footballer when used properly and I'm hoping he'll finish uff the season in great style.

Other than that, you're probably right about Fellaini's acceleration vs top speed. Thing is, in the roles he plays he doesn't really need great acceleration - Viera, Keane, Zidane, Xavi, etc etc - none are/were especially quick over 5 yards, they just had enough anticipation and overall top speed to get around the park to do their real job, which is not to beat guys with pace.

Where Fellaini does need to improve is the mental side - the reason he does sometimes fall behind the game is not because of his speed which is fine, it's because he doesn't yet read the game quickly enough, though he has improved a lot in the last couple of years in that. I remember when he first came over and tried to play in a deeper role and was pretty awful because he couldn't follow the game quickly enough - that's generally not the case now except against the better, quicker-passing sides.

Anyway, I do definitely agree as I said that Fellaini should be played deeper, in a box-to-box role. It would improve his play, and more importantly it would improve our overall shape and play. Osman or Pienaar could play ahead of him, in a Scholes/Iniesta role. It's a different style of play to what we're used to, and Jags and Neville would have to stop hoofing the ball up for Cahill/Fellaini to win, which would itself be a good thing.

I think what's happened is that Moyes saw how Fellaini bossed Utd earlier in the season in that number 10 role, and now thinks that's the best or only way to use him. Thing is, the reason it worked at the time was Man U weren't expecting it, their shape was wrong to deal with it. Now they and the rest of the league (eg Stoke!) are wise to our use of Fellaini, and we can see the results - we're too predictable, and easy to shut down. Time to change the plan again, Davey boy, and get back to playing good dynamic football that poses multiple threats.

Against Leeds, he was alongside Junior who was making his debut. To single the man out as the sole reason their midfield "ran right through" us, on a night when the whole team stank the place out, is slightly misleading.

Nobody mentioned Fellaini in the Gibson role apart from yourself. As Matthew says (and which you allude to later in your post) above, playing alongside Gibson with a free reign to advance and support attacks, with Pienaar, Osman or Mirallas in front, would be more suited to his obvious strengths and, imo, give the side a better balance.

You mention the semi-final as another example of his poor play. Again you choose another debacle where no Everton player (or the manager) covered themselves in glory. It's easy to trawl through the disappointing results of the past few years to attempt to prove a point. This can, conversely be done the opposite way.

You also state that, before this season, our results have always been better without him in the team. I don't do stats tbh, but I would like to see those percentages.

Making him train on his own is well out of order and shows, inter alia, why Moyes isn't, and will never be, a top, top manager - not even close.