Jelavic to weigh up Everton future?

I've known bosses like that – always after the best results, hounding staff, pin-pricking, trying to squeeze out more and generally lowering staff moral.

Their intentions are good but it's always 'my way or highway' and leaves little if any room for self expression – they suffocate!

I just wonder whether Jelavic is suffering from over-attention, over-instruction and generally is confused, restricted and unable to play his natural game in his natural position and therefore unable to express his own game for fear of stepping out of line or not toeing the line!!

Just a thought having read those comments of Vic's on that other thread.

[Ed Note: This post and many that follow below have been moved here from another thread. Let us know if something is missing from the discussion.]

It's Moyes's fault that he is our most offside player

etc etc (sarcasm included)

So why are performances so massively inconsistent? .... Wigan then City trips from the tongue as the latest example.

Because it's easy to tell people what you want quite a different matter explaining HOW!

Moyes should be sub contracting coaching eg ring Gerd Muller and get him over for a week with our strikers (might know a bit more than Round et al about goal scoring).

I should really charge for this stuff.

Moyes just has no idea when it comes to strikers, simple as that.

I think there are a few reasons for his lack of goals

1. He's just plain out of form. It happens to all players but I think a striker not scoring goals is going to get more attention that a centre mid not creating them.

2. We're not playing to his strengths. When was the last time we swung in a cross like Vertonghan's on Sunday? When was the last time he received a decent throughball? Even the one he scored from against City was a fucking horrible ball to him from Fellaini.

I'd love to see Miralles played just off Jelavic. He commits defenders and creates space and that is where Jelavic thrives. I'd hate to see him sold in the summer. He's not become a bad player all of a sudden.

So if it's Moyes dragging them down, surely as soon as they are released from his shackles they should blossom again?

Saha went to a Champions League side, had a flurry of goals and then was sacked off.

AJ is languishing with QPR, probably about to get relegated after having a crap time at Fulham.

Meattie is probably somewhere eating pies.

Look at that list and then tell me, with a straight face, that we have had quality forwards in the time Moyes has been here. They are all average footy players or crocks that had good time with us but then moved on because they weren't good enough.

Just pointing out your argument can be spun both ways....

(I can still remember cleary west ham away Dec 2010, starting line up had no strikers - our 4 fit strikers were all catching splinters on the bench. Real confidence booster for the forwards that must have been against the second from bottom side. Moyes was supposedly teaching them a lesson!)

You can't have it both ways. Truth of the matter is, which ever way you look at it, Moyes just doesn't get strikers and attacking football. It sometimes 'happens' I just don't think it's planned for trained for and coached.

And before you say "Wel you don't see them in training", well actually I have. Me and my son flew down to Sydney from Brisbane to watch them train at the ANZ, we also so them train in Brisbane at the Suncorp. All I can say is that I was genuinely very underwhelmed at what I saw, no formation work, no attacking work.

spot on on both points. Jelavic was confidently slotting away those crosses this time last year. Now all I see is HIM out wide and when he is in the centre, the ball is coming in from behind far too often and he's out-muscled and lacking in appetite to win the ball.

Perhaps the first issue (him going out wide so often) is a direct instruction from Moyes. We all know how he wants 'workmanlike' strikers... Jelavic simply isn't one of those. It's not his strength!

Of course, that will depend on whether or not we are to continued to be blessed with the Scot as our manager. But he certainly has form with so-called strikers — many of whom also appeared to be the answer to our prayers when we first saw them in action. That was until they learned the 'Everton way'... and the demand for running the channels, tracking back and goal-line clearances replaced any natural instincts they had at the other end of the pitch.

Just after Christmas, I wrote that Goodison Park was a graveyard for strikers, mentioning Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu and Saha alongside a number of lower profile forwards who had seen their scoring powers go rapidly downhill under our manager. In response, one correspondent opined that Moyes would have turned off Dixie Dean's flow had he managed him — and he was almost certainly right!

I`m sad about Jelavic as I was about all the others. It's as though they made their mark when left to their own devices and that, once they became 'thinking' players, they just fell apart. This, if for no other reason, is why I shall be glad to be rid of David Moyes!

The big difference with this striker is that he is missing them, whereas the others weren't getting any chances.

AJ, Meattie, Saha and Yakubu - There was only one truly decent one there, Yak, who had a career ending injury and true to form wanted away so stopped trying.

AJ was a Championship player, Meattie.....was... well Meattie and Saha was a crock. That is the whole list of our "main" strikers" under Moyes. It makes for piss poor reading really.

Either an unimaginative journo, or it's come from his agent on a strictly off-the-record basis.

But of course its each and every game he's playing left wing....

With Fellaini up front we're playing through the middle more and the number of pull-backs to Jely has decreased this season when last season we played more down the wings.

If Jely's personal goal tally takes a hit for the benefit of the team's play, that's the manager's tactics. Doesn't stop him from missing sitters though.

Either Moyes 'doesn't get' strikers (as these strikers did not consistently perform well for us) or he is not very good at picking them (as these strikers did not consistently perform well for us). Or are you saying that he has simply been unlucky in over a decade? (Note I'll put Bent in the good bucket as we certainly got a lot more than we paid for.)

Also I believe at one point or another he fell out with Bent, Saha, Yak, AJ and Beattie didn't he? There would seem to certainly be a pattern and if this post is to believed now Jelly wants away aswell - he may have had a poor season so far but is still tecnically miles ahead of where Anichebe will ever get to.

The whole Moyes ruins strikers is not just a TW topic, it has been dicussed on numerous other threads as well, so its not just a few TWebbers that think this. Personally, imo the style and tactics we play (most of the time) just doesnt suit strikers as their forced to track back and run the channels too often. Last year Jelavic tended to stay in the middle and just poached the goals. This year, for whatever reason, his confidence seems to be gone and with it that ruthles one touch finishing. Also given that we tend to be cautious when playing, we'll never score that many goals anyway so cannot see any striker getting close to 20 goals a season let alone 25 or 30.

I can see Jelavic staying if Moyes leaves but not if Moyes stays - we'll know soon enough.

And I don't think for one minute think it's down to Moyes; it's the player himself. I really wouldn't be bothered now if he did go because he'll never get back what he had when he first came. Tragic really.

Jela is of the Cottee/Lineker mold focused entirely on getting one touch in the box and bang it's a goal anything else is a distraction.

Goal poachers (which is what he is) all tell you they conserve energy and focus for what they're good at the vital split second in the box that means a goal.

I doubt Moyes or any of the other centre halves coaching him have the slightest inkling, damned shame if he goes before Moyes.

There's a really good striker there if played correctly (as an aside that's the problem for Torres - Chelsea don't play the long ball as much as Liverpool - true)

It must break a striker's heart to constantly play with back to goal, heading flick-ons into empty space. Play the game in the correct manner and Jelavic would flourish.

I'm a believer that you can't coach goalscoring into a player, but you can damn well coach it out.

I dearly hope his confidence and touch comes back, but doubt it will under the present coaching set-up.

He's best off waiting to see if Moyes and Round are still here after June before making his mind up.

Its a real shame for Jelavic, because he always looks eager to do well and really does seem to care. Big Vic is now the one who looks the real deal, lets just hope he can get the goals his performances have merited lately.

The sitters Jelavic is missing, I think, can be put down to him being knackered by the time he gets them, as well as not getting the right amount of finishing training during the week - something I don't suspect gets a lot of attention at Finch Farm. As has been mentioned on this thread, and nearly every other thread about our forwards, Moyes has brought in a team of yes men defenders, and it shows in our strikers' form. Mirallas has turned defenses inside out two weeks in a row, but I wouldn't hold my breath to see that next season.

In all this chat about Victor being the main man up front now, people need to realise that he has taken the piss out of the club and shirt for a long time, until the end of start of this year when he finally put in some man-like performances. He's playing well, yes, but he has a lot more to do before he should be winning anyone over.

Ever since Fellaini was pushed up, Jela has not prospered.

Some will argue that up front is Felli's best position, I don't.

I have noticed on a number of occasions that Jela has been beaten to the ball by Fellaini - again perhaps the outcome was a goal and we all applauded, but I wonder whether Jela would have scored anyway if the hairy one was not standing in front of him.

Secondly, Jela is not a winger he is a very pale shade of Greaves and/or Linneaker (he says) but whatever he is, he is not going to score or be any use whatsoever out on the wing.

Unless he can be slotted in to play in his preferred position within the Everton set up he should be sold for the best price.

Our local press - God help us.

"NIKICA JELAVIC is considering his Everton FC future after his nightmare season continued at the weekend"

Really...says who?

HE said?

Moyes?

Jelavic's dad?

Cat?

FFs, the piece is so lazy, it doesn't even say "a source close to the player hinted" or "according to insiders"

Total shite.

Then (as none of us really follow Everton) we're 'informed'..

"Jelavic has struggled for goals having scored just once in his last 14 appearances and only three times in his last 24 Premier League outings, It is in stark contrast to the Croatian’s exploits last season, when he netted 11 times in 16 games after arriving from Rangers for £5.5million in January 2012".

Hey, you know something, it IS in stark contrast - WHAT an insight!

And there's more..

"The 27-year-old’s regular starting role has come under threat from a resurgent Victor Anichebe in recent weeks with the player a substitute in Sunday’s 2-2 draw at Tottenham Hotspur"

Fantastic, amazing, I'm learning with every paragraph!

"Now Jelavic is pondering a summer move elsewhere after falling down the striking pecking order at Goodison"

Is he?

Is he REALLY pondering?

Does the Post have some sort of ponder-o-meter that feeds them player ponder-facts?.

Did Jelavic SAY "Well me forms shite blue, I'm ponderin' a move lad"

Was he singing 'I was born under a ponderin' star' and it was taken out of context?

Anyone read those 'Tony Parshole' spoofs in Viz?"

Fluff space-filler that says fuck-all and finishes "There, 500 words, invoice in the post".

Exactly.

It is the same situation with Heitinga. He had a great season last, but this season has been caught out. The premier league is a very unforgiving league and managers will have dossiers on every player in the league covering all of their strengths and weaknesses. The really great players escape the other managers assessment of them by being able to modify their game.

I thought he was the real deal but following his non performances in the Euro's and his inability to control the ball or pass it this season I have major doubts about him. Neville and Osman take lots of stick for their poor performances and ball retention despite always being on the move and working their socks off, but for some reason Jelavic is afforded greater latitude, don't forget he wasn't cheap costing around £5m which for us at this juncture is not small beer.

As soon as the team stops functioning behind him then he is relatively useless, not much pace or agility and a loss of ocnfidence has affected his touch. This season Moyes changed the team to ensure that it was Fellaini getting on the end of everything, quite why he ocntinued to play Jelavic with him I don't know as he is just a passenger whenever Fellaini plays behind him.

With Jelavic it is quite simple, build a team that thrives on quick ball with players looking to servi ehim in the 6 yards box and he will score. If you build a team reliant upon slow build up play, utilising Fellaini flanked by Mirallas and Anichebe who barely look up for him then he will not score many. I personally think the future should be Mirallas behind Jelavic with two Pienaar and one other playing on the flanks. The pace of the three behind would offer up so many chances for him that Fellaini's hold up play doesn't.

It pains me to say it but there is only so long someone can be 'out of form' before you conclude that they are just not very good. I hope he proves me wrong but that looks increasingly the case.

Yakubu went from Everton to Blackburn for £1m, and scored SEVENTEEN League goals for a relegated side. He could not get a look in when Saha could not hit the proverbial cow's arse.

Something wrong somewhere.

There were a number of his goals which were a direct result of good work by Felli on the ground rather than in the air, so our style has altered a little bit and it doesn't seem to suit Jelly at all. He also looked a lot sharper and brighter this time last year in fact the complete opposite to how he appears at the moment.

1 question and 1 thought.

I can’t quite remember, but when he arrived and had his blitz of goals, was he not doing the things people are pointing out, such as getting back to defend set pieces...etc, etc?
That’s not a rhetorical Q, I honestly don’t remember, I just think if we can get that sort of class from him once, we can do it again.

Secondly, all of Moyes's predecessors - between his arrival and Kendall’s 1st departure - seem to have failed to land/develop a TRULLY world class striker. Rooney being the one that got away of course. Maybe I am wrong, just a thought.

I think it was James who suggested pushing Mirallas nearer to him which might create the space for him to operate effectively. David Moyes should really have found a solution to this by now, but he seems to have turned to Anichebe to provide a solution, but even given his improved approach and attitude recently, we all know he is not the answer.

Owen's and Fowler`s success lasted longer than most before they both became goalless. Only Ronaldo and Messi seem capable of bucking the trend.

There is no way Anichebe can be the clubs main striker - I'm just embarrased that its even getting to this. Regardless of his recent better performances, the guy is a chamionship player at best. Awful first touch, poor passing, poor movement, poor positioning, not great in the air (surprising given his size), very average shooting etc.

In fact, other than barging into defenders (every now and again) and generally causing a nuisance (sometimes), I'm not sure what he beings to the team. Just a bigger (much poorer) version of the cahill role revisted - which we can certinaly do without. If people want an unskilled brute to run around then so be it, I'd prefer to have someone with pace and skill - i.e. a proper striker.

Have nothing against the guy personally but he's been around the first team for 7 years now and I'm still amased that he's getting regular minutes on the pitch in the first team. Just says either how poor our other attacking players are, or how poor they are perceived to be by current management.

Imo the likes of Anichebe and Naismith would really struggle to get regular football at other premiership clubs - with the possible exception of Reading, who'll be in the championship next year anyway. Everytime one of them takes the field I wonder to myself how the hell such a footballer is getting a game in our team. They may not have cost anything (transfer fees anyway) but they are squad players at the very best.

We have a top goaly and great defenders (imo) as that has been managements first priority in the last decade or so - build from the back. Would be great if that prioriry could be focused a bit more on the other end of the pitch so we focus on getting a prober front line that puts fear in the oppos defenders.

The main reason why he was such a success last year was because nothing was expected of him, he'd laze about the pitch almost looking uninterested, but when there was a chance in the 18 yard box he was quick and energetic to react, and I think he score his 1st 10 or so goals for us with 1 touch.

For me if it's not broke don't fix it, I don't blame Jella for his dip in form I put all on Moyes for trying to mess with a winning formula.

I agree Anichebe will never bring us goals but his hold-up play and ability to play off the midfield I rate quite highly. If Fellaini is on the pitch, Moyes uses him in a different way, which makes him ineffective. But, if the big Belgian leaves this summer, I think he could play a big part in our team next season, especially if he adapts a slightly deeper role which allows Moyes to field another striker without admitting he's actually playing 2 strikers at once. (Heaven forbid that would ever be the case...)

With regard to our squad, I agree with your analysis of bit-part players and our strengths, but Moyes has left it so long he's going to have to re-visit our back 5 sooner rather than later. (Howard isn't getting any younger, neither is Jagielka, and I would be disappointed if a 35-year-old Distin was our 1st choice next season.)

Look at Fellainis goals since coming to us, 9 when he played forward at first, 3, 3, 5 and this season 12.

I believe he is getting Jelavic's chances this season, even so, Jella is still joint second high3est scorer this season.

He said himself that he couldn't play as a lone striker and would not be interested in signing if that was the case. Needless to say he was given these assurances by Everton officials and by both sets of agents in order to force the transfer through. What we are seeing now is not the effect that Moyes has on all strikers.

Nor is it second season syndrome. Or loss of form (apart from a lack of confidence). It is just that he can not – and does not want to – play in the formation we regularly play in. We should either build a team around his finishing skills or sell him to the highest bidder.

Swansea deserve all the credit in the world for picking up Michu so cheap as deals like that are few and far between. It'll be interesting to see if he can do the same next season. I'd wager he'll find it a little tougher.

I really don't get some of the views on Anichebe. He is most certainly not 'shit', nor is he ever going to play for Barcelona. When he is up for it he is a genuine asset to us. He puts himself about, chases down lost causes, holds it up and generally gives defenders a hard time. His major problem is getting himself up for games. I'd trust him every time against the big teams at home - but away at Southampton etc he does seem to go missing.

We have a decision to make in the summer. Fellaini will likely go and fetch £20-25 mil. With that I think our priority has to be two CM's. We've really struggled there and will be another man (+Neville) light next year.

I can't see us having a great deal to splash on a striker. I'd love to see McAleny given a chance, but it's a big step up for a young lad.

I agree with everything you say except having a top keeper.

Tony

I said the same months a go, the team is built around Fellaini the same way it was built around Cahill. Both (except Cahill in his last 18 months) score a decent number of goals in that position but not enough to have the team built around them. I'd love Everton to go back to playing with 2 strikers or at least a midfielder with an eye for a pass behind the lone striker but Moyes has always preferred a physical approach.

Constantly being caught off-side and several glaring chances missed is infuriating, but overall he looks exactly like the 5 million pound striker that we paid for. Of the 28 people who have scored more goals than Jelevic this season only 4 (Kone, La Fondra, Lambert, Michu) cost less than what we paid. Until we have top dollar to spend, Jelevic will be just about as good as it gets. Play to his strengths and he will score goals.

It helps, honestly!

It's more than likely if you constantly have a slippery, greedy, self-serving agent constantly in your ear about moves and other clubs and your 'worth' etc.

But has he SAID he's thinking of a move?

No.

Isn't it a little damning when the main positive attribute you can give him is 'he puts himself about'? In other words he's a big lump who barges into defenders and 'generally causes a nuisance'. Admitttedly not a bad attribute to have but when there are few others to go with it, then imo you do have a very average player on your hands.

Personally I'd put these attributes far higher up the importance list; pace, movement off the ball, first touch, dribbling, shooting, heading, positioning. All of which he lacks at premiership level imo. Anichebe is basicly a poor mans Emile Heskey - Heskey didn't use his physique to the fullest either but at least had some pace and scored relatively regularly.

Also I don't agree with the 'we cannot afford good strikers' line of thinking. Imo we just never made them a priority in the recent past (relying too much on cahill making do). Michu may be an exception but we could probably have afforded the likes of Long, Ba (when he went to the barcodes), Cisse, Benteke, Lambert, Kone etc had we made a striker a priority. Also could we not have asked to get the the likes of Lukaku or Sturridge on loan from Chelsea? All ifs and buts but I am 100% sure there are affordable strikers on the continent that are a damn site better than big vic.

Our style of play isn't good for poachers really. I think if we maybe get a couple of better creative players, we might get an improvement for Jelavic.

[I'm a genius.]

He said himself that he couldn't play as a lone striker and would not be interested in signing if that was the case. Needless to say he was given these assurances by Everton officials and by both sets of agents in order to force the transfer through. What we are seeing now is not the effect that Moyes has on all strikers.

Nor is it second season syndrome. Or loss of form (apart from a lack of confidence). It is just that he can not – and does not want to – play in the formation we regularly play in. We should either build a team around his finishing skills or sell him to the highest bidder.

In saying that though, I would love it if we used the forthcoming Fellaini money on Benteke. Big, strong, quick, left foot, right foot, headers, inside box goals, outside box goals, only about 23... I wonder if Mirallas can have a word?

Yeah, I really believe that!!! Assurances that he wouldn't be played as a lone striker???? Had he ever watched the Premier League before, had he never heard of Everton?

Moyes not playing with 2 strikers and creating chances for Jelavic to score isn't the effect????????

He does show glimpses of quality but I agree, they are infrequent and he leaves a lot to be desired. However there are times when his effort and work rate have won us games. I don't think that attribute should be overlooked - particularly when you're asking the lad to play up front on his own.

My only real argument is that I think he is good enough for Everton. He is by no means going to be a first option...but he's not Championship material as some have labelled him.

As for us not affording 'quality'. I like Shane Long but is he 'quality'? I'd have him at the club but he's not a 15 goal a season man. I'd rather have Victor than Kone. We can't loan players like Sturridge or Lukaku because their clubs know we are not far off the pace. You don't loan to your rivals.

Benteke looks a very good player, I'd have him in a breath.

I'm not saying that there aren't bargains out there - but there aren't all that many.

One thing that has wound me up a bit is McAleny's treatment. He's a young lad and is by no means ready to play week in week out. But he came on against Arsenal last year and was a fraction of an inch away from his 'Rooney moment'. Then that's it. Back in the reserves for 12 months. Couldn't he have made a few 5-10 minute appearances? He's an out and out poacher with skill and pace. Surely we could have used him? Just my opinion but I really think we could be making more of the squad we already have.

Ask yourself: Are you doing a good job this season? — The answer is NO.

It's in that bit that you copied and pasted into your own post.

To be honest the same applies to Duffy and Barkley and Junior. It seems Moyes generally doesn't give the fringe players any time at all. All we get are the usual suspects like Naismith brought on time after time.

Personally, I don't think Anichebe has shown himself to be any better although I do think Vellios should have been given a starting slot but Moyes won't give people a chance. God only knows why he suddenly picked Barkley at Spurs.

Jela is now disgruntled and wants to leave, which may seem lame rather than wanting to win his place back, but maybe there is more to it than that. I think he still has a future at Everton, is still young enough, has proved he is a good poacher, and still works hard.

That said, I'd like to see him. I really do think we've got some good players there, but either they suck at training, or the Moyes "in-crowd" is just that thick. In support of that, you had Moyes come out again and say as long as he's at Everton Osman has a place. He's only 32 and can barely get through a game without having a mature-aged asthma attack. How's he going to be when he's 35? Walking with his hands on his waist, but still in the centre because Moyes "likes the lad"?

If the likes of McAleny et al don't get some time, we'll have absolutely no assetts left in three years.

Yes, we've rarely been in commanding positions these days. That's why I can understand Duffy and Junior not getting on. Maybe even Barkley. But McAleny is a striker. Why would he never bring him on for Jelavic just to try nick a goal.

You know, as I write that it's become blatantly obvious. McAleny would be no good at defending a corner. Nothing else seems to count at times.

Seems like Moyes has a lot of deadbeats in reserve... Just as well the ''first teamers'' are tremendous!