Kingdom of God

Its why I think the Europa League is a good tournment to be in. It conditions the club and the players to European football. I know the drawbacks of the tournament, but I think we should try to be in Europe as much as we can.

Regarding the Champions League the hard part is finishing in the top 4 when you are in it. Spurs couldnt do it.

Regular Champions League football has to be the aim, its what we all want. But the club isn't set up for it. Theres is no way we would finish in the top 4 again if we were in it. We don't even have the squad to get through a league season.

Can you imagine this board building the squad up with the necessary outlay in transfers and the consequent wage bill increase?

Yeah.

Match TV Comm Total
Manchester Utd 109 119 103 341
Manchester City 30 83 158 271
Arsenal 93 87 46 226
Chelsea 67 101 57 225
Liverpool 41 63 77 183
Spurs 43 53 37 133
Everton 22 53 12 86

Like you say, the numbers are staggering (do you have some others for contrast? Newcastle, Villa, Sunderland).

On the positive side for Martinez, Moyes and our players (and maybe even BK to a point) they do highlight what a great job is being done on the pitch to even be in the running when the odds are stacked against us.

On the flip side it shows just how much work needs to be done on the commercial side and how important a new stadium is in our ongoing plans.

However, I also think in the present economic climate it would be impossible to raise ticket prices significantly and we cannot fill many more seats as we look like we will have a decent average attendance this season - with games still to come against United, City and Arsenal which should be full-houses. Of all the clubs that need a commercial partner we are the ones that would benefit the most but as usual those that have the most tend to receive the most in free-gifts and corporate sponsorship.

As usual we rely on the players and the managerial acumen of the football staff to keep us in and around the money clubs and its so frustrating knowing that half the amount that Man U spent this season if it had been spent on the correct players could have had us all dreaming about even higher places in the PL. But we are Everton and we'll just have to go about our business and hope for the best, unless something dramatic happens

Fortunately TV money is now so huge that if we do break in the lower matchday revenue that we have (because of the ground and Liverpool pricing vs London) will become less of an issue as it becomes an ever smaller proportion of revenue.

Finishing 4th does not get us in to the group stages though - just the chance to do so. If we get the chance we must take it, and thankfully we are much better equiped this time than 10 years ago.

The main thing that strikes me from the above figures is what a joke all this Financial Fair Play stuff is. As it stands, Man City/Chelsea etc can have 2 World Class squads on their books, snap up any decent looking prospect etc. How can the rest of the league compete with that?
RM and the club have done a fantastic job so far this season but every time we get near the Top 4 (even under Moyes) the big boys just throw more money around and we slip back again.

Over to the Board of Directors.

Patrick is right about not raising ticket prices. No-one could afford the increase. And at a time when we are doing so well, you want to continue to raise attendances whatever way you can. If we did finish in the top six this season, I could see an increase in season ticket sales on the back of a very positive season. The club should freeze ticket prices across the board come the summer and even lower them where possible.

Perhaps one of the other readers could supply this information? it would be appreciated.

With the fiasco that was building a modern stadium on the waterfront and, although we are constantly told that the management are working daily on a new stadium, I don't believe a new stadium will be built in the next 5 years.

If Everton do qualify for the Champions League next season, we will need a number of experienced players brought in to compete both in Europe and the domestic league. This season we have a group of about 13 players that make up the first team but, with injuries, we do not have the squad to compete twice a week.

The problem of finance goes back for quite a number of years with the Chairman and Board operating in the now and not planning for the future and, at this present time, with prices escalating at an alarming rate, choose to bury their heads in the sand after mortgaging all our assets.

Getting into the Champions League will give the club a huge financial boost but, to maintain this level of income or increase it, we must not become a one-trick pony; we must continue to qualify in the following seasons... but, to do this, we will have to stay in the top 4 and, to do this, we will have to invest in the team and make a long-term plan for a stadium.

Mr Martinez's attitude of "you don't need money to get a winning team" is admirable but I believe you need money to maintain a winning squad. The bottom line is we need a new stadium with a higher capacity than Goodison Park that will increase gate revenues and improve our commercial revenue —otherwise, we will be forced to sell our top class players... and that means one step forward and two steps backward.

Newcastle - gate £29m, TV, 53, Commercial 19
Aston Villa - gate £22m, TV 54 , Commercial 17

both doing better than Everton!

Debt question, again some from 18 months ago:

Man Utd £308m, Newcastle 131, Aston Villa 114, Arsenal 98, Chelsea 92, Liverpool 65, Spurs 57 , Everton 45, Man City 43

Clearly City are being given huge incomes from all Eithad linked companies, not loans – I think this is being reviewed by Uefa, pushed by Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool – but the view is Uefa won't go against City. It's exactly the same for Monaco, who will qualify for CL next year but on the back of a Russian Billionaire.

In the meanyime seventhish is NOT failure!

Personally I want more.

We spend roughly between 70-75% of all revenue on wages, the debt has stabilised around the £45m mark which is serviceable, especially now BT are throwing £15-20m extra at all P.L. clubs. Chang will probably extend their sponsorship at mid-table levels, and we are stuck with Kitbag for another few years yet. So, without hiring the best in the business, our commercial revenue streams will probably stay at around 10% of Liverpool's. That £77m is a couple of years old now - they are nearer to £100m for this season.

To raise any sort of funds for the manager, we have to sell our best players on for a large profit, or sell our younger academy stars. We seem to be using the loan system to bolster our very thin squad.

Bill is working full-time, producing shows in London, Robert Earl clearly couldn't care less and Jon Woods is a retired businessman who enjoys his role as director at Everton. None of the above have any intention of investing further in the club.

So that's how the club works, but there is one worrying trend in all of that. There are absolutely no plans in place to move the club forward. Hand to mouth existence each season is the order of the day, and the directors (Well, two of them) are quite happy just to sell the next Barkley, so they can retain control and supply the manager with half of the proceeds.

We are stuck in quicksand until someone can put plans in place to start breathing fresh life into the club. If you think the current owners will suddenly devise a master plan, then think again. There is no will, money, or even a vision to change the model we operate under. Or am I wrong?

Kevin, I see where you're coming from but I'd hope we don't have to sell our best players, else we'll be standing still at best.

I'd say the same about academy stars, partly for the same reason, partly because I think our football / business model is Roberto moulding the young lads into the style of play he wants (St Roberto - "give me the academy player until he's seventeen..."). That's a medium-term project, and hopefully we get a couple of gems from that in a year or two and thereafter a steady flow.

In the meantime, we shift out the deadwood and ageing players and see if we can get some cheapish but good buys as the Scottish Manager was able to do. And at the same time aim for that place in the CL so we can generate more dosh to spend on and attract bigger names more easily.

St Roberto is saying money speeds things up but isn't necessary, so I'll go with that for now. I certainly wont be disappointed if we don't get 4th in Roberto's first year but it would really kickstart things (I cant believe we're actually and realistically talking about that). Oh, and an FA Cup - just for 2 trips to Wimbley.

Even the 'over-achievement' of 5th place would see us scratting around to find players for all those Thursday night non-games which are such a diversion for all who compete.

Although it doesn't merit an open-top bus, I think the majority of us recognise that a 6th finish makes us 'best of the rest' and that it should be seen as success with the resources we have to hand.

Perhaps,one day........but not in my lifetime,I fear!

I think the FFP is a complete waste of time, when UEFA have inserted the caviat that teams can be banned from European competitions if the break the rule unless it is deemed damaging to the competition. So they will be prepared to throw out Man City even if they win the Premiership, it aint going to happen. Despite Chelsea,Arsenal and Liverpool objecting to Citys overspend.

It was this evidence that no doubt prompted Martinez to believe CL qualification to be possible. Brian Clough believed that success in football was 80% organisation and tactics and 20% individual talent. I suspect Martinez thinks the same and believes he has the know how and beliefs that can provide the 80%.

Personally I don't expect us to finish 4th, but football is a team game, and as good as the component parts of a side may be, there's a lot more to putting those parts together before they become effective.

I have to agree with what Phil says that as things stand we cant can't really compete with the 'big boys'.

One solution is a mega rich owner throwing money at the club.

Otherwise, we attempt to develop enough of our young players to the standard needed to bring said success, a big ask.
I suppose we are trying to do that every season!

Our profile is of a club that leads the fight each year and kills a few giants (money wise) along the way, but never quite succeeds getting into the European glamour ties.
Whether we can promote this image more, to our advantage, I'm not sure, its our only claim to fame in recent years.

Its really a vicious circle, success leads to more money which leads to more success,
& so on.

As it is were reliant on RM producing a wonder team that can achieve some success and allow us to grow.

Certainly. Spurs have the London pricing which helps big time , but they and Liverpool have numerous Corporate Boxes . I think I saw a figure of 100 boxes for spurs . Roughly say they charge on average £20 more per ticket and they earn £800k per more per game and with 100 boxes compared to our 10 gives this figure of £20m more per year. Don't know how many boxes Liverpool have but certainly far more than our 10 and I think their prices are higher than ours.

The CL would definitely improve would our global identity.

Our first 15 are world class, and can compete with anyone, toe to toe. Further down the bench we get kind of thin though. To bring the squad up to CL standards, takes money. Money that a club in our current financial situation can only get from competing and being successful in the the CL. It's kind of chicken and egg thing.

We don't have a billionaire owner. If I was in his position, I wouldn't want to sell either. He owns the best club on the planet. I don't hold his lack of money against him, any more than I hold the fact that Ossie is getting a little long in the tooth, against him. It is what it is.

For those demanding an owner with deep pockets; any owner not BK, be careful what you wish for. The Everton that emerges, could be unrecognizable.

Remember all those clubs that had fantastic managers and great teams when they too were punching above their weight but didn't have the financial investment to match their achievements - in the 60s and 70s and 80s Derby, Forest, Ipswich, Burnley even Leeds and Wolves to a lesser extent they all had great teams and shouldn't have achieved as much as they did but there was no follow up and they kept sending their players to the top teams of the day, that is not something I wish for regardless of who the owner is.

The Middle East and Asia is where they are mad about the game and where the money is. But do we ever go on tour over there? We once went to Australia, another football desert, just to please Tim Cahill. Did we make any money out of it? Did we hell. We have a Thai shirt sponsor yet never go there.

We have no presence in China, Japan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore etc... where there are literally billions of potential shirt buyers. Honestly, I can't bother going on but the people in charge of promoting our club need to be sacked ASAP.

Even were we to tank in the group stages; and there's no reason to necessarily think we would; we place a continental style, and it's very much luck of the draw, six games with Champions League revenue would have a significant positive impact on our finances, as well as raising our profile.

I would love to see us progress and grow organically, not just get bought up and have money thrown at us (and, let's face it, big money buyers seem to be a mid-long term disaster about 90% of the time, anyhow). That involves good commercial decisions, a long term stadium plan that makes sense (whatever it might be), and sustained on-the-field success with notable budgetary restrictions.

Far far from easy, but something we should never stop striving for. "Nil satis nisi optimum" doesn't mean we've failed when we're not the best, it means we've failed if we ever *accept* not being the best.

With this board in charge of things, I don’t see us moving forward. Could anyone see billy bullshitter splashing the cash if we qualified for the CL? I don’t myself. He’s pocket the windfall in a heartbeat.

Magician bill has already made the last load of cash disappear. History would only repeat itself, as it already has with him.

What is clear is that this board has no ideas and no intentions to take the Club forward so they need replacing with someone that will.

Who?

If we are relying on a place in the Champions League to solve are financial problems for one season that will not happen, we need to qualify for the Champions League on a regular basis and I do not think that Everton can do it without a strong squad to compete in Europe and at home in the cups and the league.

Anyhoo, what I basically said was, a few years ago I carried out a study for a client that reviewed income amongst top flight clubs in England, Spain, Italy and Germany. A lot of interesting trends emerged, but obviously I looked in detail at figures relating to Everton.

Even back then (which was two TV deals ago) we were far too dependent on broadcast revenue relative to commercial and matchday income. It would be fascinating to have updated figures because I would guess that if you looked at relative movements in proportions, we would be even more dependent on broadcast revenue (which is definitely not true of other clubs) and therefore our board have delivered the square root of fuck all in commercial and matchday terms so to those calling on them to pull their finger out, "Watch This Space".

^^ That space there.

Javier Faus, their VP has today called for the expansion of the Champions League from 32 to 64 teams.... and the reduction of the top national leagues from 20 to 18, or maybe even 16 teams.

Or maybe it's just a recognition that 6 teams vying for four places doesn't work out, so give them all guaranteed entry and the rest of us bottom feeders can be content with fighting for the Europa league.

4th used to be the new 1st. Will it now be 6th?

I do plenty of work with membership organisations and how to make more money from your member....

- When I look around Goodison (and I love it) I do not see many ways of making much more out of it on match days. Not without major building work or reducing fan capacity in favour of boxes.....

Sure with some imagination you could make a little more on match days, for example at Fulham and Arsenal it is easier to get a beer at half time with chaps walking around with beer packs and pumps on their back.

Merchandising I do not know a great deal about and suspect we could make more.

I reckon neither merchandising or selling a few more beers (or similar) on match day will provide the quantum leap required in income.

It needs to come from either a new ground (which will not come free), redevelopment of Goodison (also not free), sponsorship or a sugar daddy.

Cheers

The commercial revenue is a tad embarrassing in terms of numbers but it's where we are and it doesn't look like that'll change until we are at least perennial challengers.

I like the idea of an expansion in Champions League numbers although I'd be surprised if the Premier League would be happy to lose a few teams to accommodate the idea.

I think the badge fiasco sums up perfectly why we find ourselves in the position we are in. Amateur hour throughout the whole organisation.

Let's face facts. if you can't get a simple re-branding exercise such as that right, you really have no business holding such a position. You can also add the Park End development if you wish - what a shambles. Mass resignations would be the order of the day in any other organisation.

When you find your motives, or expertise publicly being called into question, the first thing you will do is hire sycophants. This is exactly the path Bill & the board have chosen.

The Premier League will not like it, but ultimately 2/3 of the teams would have to vote for it. The only way I'd see them doing it is agreeing to reduce to 18 teams, but by losing 1 of the relegation slots - which would have the Football League (rightly) screaming blue murder...

I really wish these teams would just piss off with the top teams from Italy, Germany, France etc. and create the little league they obviously so want. The fans would tire of it quickly, as would the sponsors which would also mean the TV monies would collapse. Within 3 years they'd be begging to come back.

And I'd welcome them back.

Starting in Ryman League 7

(Only cos I can't think offhand if there's a lower league).

You're right about an extended CL. These numpties are killing football. The old European Cup was much more exciting and prestigious than this bloated, overrated bore fest. CL should be Champions only, and not runners up. I'd establish a European super cup for the teams just below the Champions so you'd have teams like Real Madrid, Borrusia Dortmund, Juventus, Chelsea, Benfica etc....participating, and hopefully us, this would be a fantastic competition and would be just as financially viable as the CL.

Tenuous link but did anybody hear the piece of Today on Radio this morning? A police side in the Ryman League have so far played 27 games:
Won 9, Drawn 9, Lost 9

The sponsoring companies are looking for maximum benefit on their investment Utd, City, Gunners, Chelsea, Spurs and rs. offer better value than us because they are perceived rightly to have more chance to be in the limelight of the media.

I think Roberto is helping us get more coverage because of his personality, and the style and quality of our play, which is fostering a greater belief in the media that we might actually win something!

That's the key, we need to actually win something to make us much more attractive to sponsors and supporters alike.

Brent Stephens #776 — As I live on Windy & Wet South Coast the only local football I get to see is the Ryman Premier Division and you are correct with your post re Police team:

Metropolitan Police P27, W9, D9,L9 Arrests 36 Convictions 30 Points 36

I have seen them at my local team, and they are pretty average, but a BIG BIG team.

Haha!

I guess when any players for the police team are sent off for bad fouls, they appeal and claim "He fell onto my foot, your honour". So all red cards rescinded.

His ownership is still in the 25% region. Members of the Board including BK own 70+% The rest of the shareholders actually own more of the Club than BK.

The reason BK got backing from his friends was that he convinced them that they would make a substantial profit on their investment.* He enjoys a high profile because of his Chairmanship not, as is wrongly stated, through owning Everton.

* I now believe that that event will happen in the near future.

Mind you if I happened to be a billionaire, it would be easier

The current spell with RM in charge is very satisfying to say the least. I just met a poor farmer in Namibia, Africa who was wearing Man Utd shorts. He wants OFM to go soon but you know he said, "Moyes did a good job for Everton, didn't he?" I said "He did for Everton what he doing for Man Utd."

So you see it's amazing how the media machine plus BK's "Aren't we doing well considering?" downgraded us unnecessarily. It's Everton's history that feeds imaginative minds such as RM's and success will follow. I hope the penny has dropped with BK in which case he will sell and get his profit sooner with all this positive outlook we now have.

I mean it could all be a smoke screen so we look over here when something is going on over there. But here we are on a wonderful run of form, getting SOME recognition from the media and pundits, and have as good a chance as anybody to grab fourth and maybe a cup, and I haven't heard very much out of Bill Kenwright. Normally he's all over Everton TV with interviews and articles, but this season he's been very subdued. Meh, could be nothing. I just find it interesting.