What money can't buy

Well said Andy, coyb.

I think Barry is actually one of our more creative midfielders. His range of passing is second only to Gibson. The problem was with Martinez's reluctance to drop Barry when he was absolutely bang out of form for a spell of probably 10-15 games.

Two holding midfielders wouldn't be so bad if we had a threat on both flanks. The way we played last year with one wide man cannot be repeated. It was bloody torture!

Play like the new England cricket team – no fear, go out there and batter the opposition into submission! I know it’s not a like-for-like comparison but I so loved watching an English national team, in any sport, playing with such joy and freedom.

We don't know how much we have to spend, but the indications are it is not much. Roberto let slip that it is nothing like last year's 㿈M and considering we only actually put ٧M down, that is worrying.

Other clubs are already splashing the cash. Sunderland have 㿞M to spend, Newcastle 㿨M, West Ham 㿊M and Saints are gearing up for the Europa League with signings, unlike us last year. We seem to be mainly concentrating on frees and bargain basement signings.

Considering we are the 20th richest club in the world and the 8th in the EPL, where does all the money go? It seems that, no matter how much money comes into EFC, there is little left to spend.

Everton FC is the financial black hole of the Premier League.

No Clive (#4), we are not the 20th richest club in the world. Yet again people assume revenue = profit. It doesn't. Costs also play a role. Even those pesky "OOCs" we can never get a handle on...

We are basically in the top 20 (although I think we've slipped out of it) by virtue of the TV deal for the Premier League and that alone. The only thing that differentiates us from "lesser" lights in the Premier League is having a slightly larger average attendance.

If other countries ever got into collective bargaining rights for TV deals and spread the wealth in a similar matter, we'd plunge down that revenue ranking quickly.

And no doubt the Echo would say it's "where they should be".

Matt, that's the whole point. No matter how much our revenues increase, it never converts into cash to spend, or profits if you like. Clubs like Sunderland, Saints, West Ham and others are leaving us behind due to our financial mismanagement.

Bullshit, we are absolutely broosted.

We are in for about 30 new players according to the newspapers.

I knew it was all a con and that we are richer than Creosote (Copyright Terry Pratchett).

Do you remember just how flaky our back four were for the first half of the season? There is a reason that Distin disappeared and Alcaraz has been moved on...

In fact, forget back 4, our back 5 were appalling – including Howard.

I can see we won't spend a penny, and go back to tippy-tappy, whole team moves up the field then gets hit on the counter – we'll be murdered again.

Matt (#5). If we had more money, we'd spend more money. Where are these clubs making great margins?

Crystal Palace had a better profit than most. Are they rich? Arsenal's was about 15% of Palace's profit. Who's richer?

If the other leagues went into collective bargaining, then we'd surely see the top clubs drop back and the rest come up... but our relative movement could only be upwards. Which league is earning anything like the Premier League?

Yes, it's built on TV money, but why is it so hard to accept that we are quite well off?

We don’t get more money in England because of collective bargaining, we get more money because people in other countries will pay more to watch English football.

Until that changes simply being in England will make us ’bigger’ financially than many equivalent clubs on the continent. We may love to run down the Premier League and claim the grass is greener anywhere and everywhere else, but the rest of the world doesn’t seem to see it that way.

Okay we know the billionaire clubs can afford way over the odds to get players and pay the wages to keep some regularly happy on the bench ensuring a strong squad every game.

Everton of course do not have that luxury and it is important for the manager and his staff to buy players wisely with limited funds but just as important to get players who have the ability and mindset to perform at the highest level, no matter what money they are earning.

It will always be a struggle if the manager does not possess the charisma to motivate players, no matter what their strengths are. I question if RM has that charisma after 65 I think that this 3rd. season will be the acid test for RM and some of this squad to see what they are really made of.

One or two new additions may help but without more in the striking department I fear not much will change. Some players who are getting older and those more injury prone should be let go sooner if not later to allow new players fit in.

I agree, Andy, players must get into the team on merit and not reputation. Also do away with the 2 defensive midfielders, it's just a waste of a player, it suggests negativity and if last season is anything to go by, it gives us nothing as we were leaking a ridiculous amount of goals.

I would hope El Messiah will give us a bit of width (although not holding my breath) by employing 2 wingers and allow them to get to the by line instead of cutting inside again and also have the full backs linking with them too.

Tom (#11) yeah spot on, if the manager cannot motivate the players then we will struggle again although if we don't actually return to a quick attacking formation instead of last seasons snoozefest it wont matter how many strikers we have, none will be effective playing that way.

In my opinion, we have players capable of being competitive, it just depends whether Martinez can come up with a game plan to make us exciting yet solid at the back. I know I know, I'm asking for miracles but surely even he must realise that he is on borrowed time and he must deliver as soon as the season starts

If, and no one knows for certain, funds for signings are being withheld from the manager, could it be that the doubts which so many of us have about his ability are shared by BK and his CEO?

Of course that is a dangerous game for whilst a bad start to the season will make it easier to terminate his contract, a paucity of points will make the task of any replacement all the more daunting. And who is to know if the judgement over any new man will be any more sage than RobertoÂ’s appointment?

For that reason alone, I hope 15-16 gets off to a real flyer and the Catalan finds a recipe to produce a winning side regardless of the availability of massive funds or my dislike for his style and persona. Wishing anything less would make me a poor Evertonian.

Given we've just bought Cleverley and still have McCarthy, Barry, Besic and Gibson on the books, I really can't see the end of 2 CMDs anytime soon, if ever. That would be too many thousands of pounds in wages sat on the bench to justify....

We'll carry on with the old 4-2-3-1 as last season with presumably Cleverley and McCarthy as the starting 2 CDMs (assuming McCarthy's still here come August), only difference will be hopefully a lot more creativity in from the 3 AMs.

Lot of weeks to go before the start so still hoping for that elusive creative Number 10, a second strike and another CB...

Denis. Agree with most of your post but expect Cleverley to be used in an attacking position. At Villa his off-the-ball movement and awareness continually opened up extra space for Benteke.

Andy the part of your post that warms the cockles of my heart is :-

"There must be no favourites and we must be the best in all that costs nothing: Motivation, togetherness, spirit and will."

That is the stuff that great teams are made of. Can I add to your recipe "fitness".

Just as an afterthought - if we could get Brian Oviedo fit and back in the first team squad he would provide heaps of that which costs nothing. That lad is made of good stuff.

Ernie (#9), If we are quite well off, why do we have a budget that Mr McCawber would be proud of and can only buy when we sell?

Denis @ 14. Are you saying that Cleverley was so adept at carving openings for Benteke that Villa managed to avoid relegation. Just.

We are indeed blessed to have him to do similar for Lukaku, hopefully resulting in a somewhat higher placing, though "

Harold / Phil - tbh I have no idea where Martinez plans on using Cleverley and I hope itÂ’s not as our new No 10 as IÂ’ve never seen him as that sort of player. I could be proved wrong of course but IÂ’d assume heÂ’ll play in one of the CDM spots with Barry starting fewer games this season than last given heÂ’s pushing 35.

Not sure where that leave Besic mind...

Gibson may or may not be fit but I canÂ’t see him getting a contract extension beyond this season given his past injury issues. HeÂ’d have to be fit for most of the season for that to happen and thereÂ’s fat chance of that happening.

4-3-2-1 seems to be MartinezÂ’s favourite formation and if we play that I really canÂ’t imagine Cleverley being one of the AMs.

Anyway, Bob said he is after a 10 from foreign climes did he not? I know Brum is pretty much like Grozny circa 1990 and Bob is Spanish, so technically we are all foreign to him, but surely he is going to shift one of the existing CMÂ’s and get in another 10?

Makes you wonder what Ross is thinking after going from the best ever (future) player in the history of the fair isle to having to compete with some Latin type with LÂ’Oreal hair for a spot away at Bournemouth.

If you are going to warm the bench anyway then maybe its better to do it at shitty for 𧴜k p/w or whatever the going rate for home grown potential is these days.

Phil. It was me who mentioned the Cleverley / Benteke business but I never said our boy carved out openings for the big lad. ThatÂ’s just your Wigan Walling dry sense of humour.

To tell the truth, I was never really appreciative of Cleverley till he joined Villa but over the weeks since BentekeÂ’s return I began to notice this rather nondescript figure making very intelligent runs which pulled defenders out of position. It turned out to be Tom Cleverley. Okay, he was probably carrying out orders. Sherwood did say that he was an intelligent lad who would listen carefully to instructions and carry them out. Possibly a legacy from his United days with Fergie.

Harold, you really do watch what is happening and provide astute observations. My fear is that Deulofeu could become a disillusioned bit player.

In my view he needs an arm round the shoulder and constant repetition in his ear that he is THE MAN. When we got Martinez I thought that that is what he would be good at. If he is,then we just might have a future star. Give this lad a run in the side.

Harold, from well before Cleverley was mentioned in these columns, I can remember both Man Utd and Wigan work colleagues telling me that he would be an ideal Martinez signing in that they were in awe of the welter of backward and sideways passes the kid made.

Maybe Sherwood persuaded him away from that tactic but it will sure find its true home with RobertoÂ’s Everton.

Interesting Phil. LetÂ’s hope heÂ’s a changed man.

Which man Harold, Tom or Bob?

Cleverley made a couple of well publicised, fruitful forward runs. One past a very leg wary Barry and another the following week. It would be very wrong to suggest he makes a habbit of this. He doesn't. he is your archetypal holding midfielder who seldom crosses the half way line.

Not saying he is a bad player, but attacking midfielder? Not a hope. This guy makes James McCarthy look like Frank Lampard.

He may break up the opposition attacks he may also drop back and take the ball from our defenders and distribute it, but anybody expecting him to create or score more than a couple of goals is seriously deluding themselves.

Unless there are plans to sell Macca, his position is nailed on, whether Cleverley is even a starter will have a lot to do with the development of Besic

Eric (#17) Because we spend a lot? We have a 㿲M wage bill. We buy players. And yes, we also run a club (how well we do that is rightly open to debate).

But we turnover 𧴰M. WeÂ’re not poor. WeÂ’re about the 20th richest club and we have a wage bill to match.

Andy. Whether Delboy was on the front row of the bench or out there on the pitch, two things came across loud and clear. He loved playing for Everton and he desperately wanted us to win. In fact, he was so overjoyed when someone scored it was difficult to realise he was here on loan.

Personally, I hope he gets plenty of game time and is allowed to do his own thing. If Lukaku and Naismith had got themselves on the goal-line instead of waiting for a cutback they would have scored quite a few tap-ins from DelboyÂ’s crosses. I never understood how they failed to cotton on to this.

Ernie #29, spending everything we earn and being continually in ever increasing debt does not make us well off, whatever the turnover.

We earn 𧴰M (and rising) a year Eric.

If we earned 𧺬M IÂ’d love to see us spend it on players. I donÂ’t want to see us in debt that we canÂ’t manage but I really couldnÂ’t care less whether we are amassing cash. I want to see our assets on the pitch rather than in the bank (stadium would be nice too).

Spending close to what you earn is the sporting model. ItÂ’s spending more than you can earn that is a problem.

How many times do people ask where the [insert player name] money is? We expect it to be spent on the team donÂ’t we?

Ernie 32,

No matter how much our turnover increases, it never seems to convert into cash to spend. Take the increased tv money, we have had slightly more, but not as much as other clubs it seems. Sunderland 㿞M, Newcastle 㿨M, West Ham 㿊M to spend this summer.

West Ham have just signed Payet reportedly for 㾸M, who we were linked with. Southampton have already signed four players for their Europa season. Kenwright is turning Everton into a small club through financial incompetence.

Very well said... Select the team based on form and hard work in training!

None of this "experience" bullsht!

Potential will remain potential, until given an opportunity is given!

ThatÂ’s odd. I didnÂ’t write post 32 and it was added while I was in bed. It doesnÂ’t make sense either.

In fact now I remember that I posted something else saying that I hoped we increased our revenue and spent the lot on the club, which is what Matt is replying to. SomeoneÂ’s messing around with the posts here.

Ernie (35), we have a long-standing issue where comments can get out of sync with their author when we perform bulk management of them on the database.

I have an alternative system in the works but please bear with us for now. In the meantime, your name should be associated with the correct post now.

Clive, if Newcastle spend 㿨M this summer, IÂ’ll eat my hat. And my socks. It will never happen.

We still have a debt issue, and TV money has not taken that away. We need a new stadium, and need to increase our revenue in other ways (like Liverpool have done). Kenwright is to blame, but I expect that our 11th placed finish, and the lack of cup runs, has also decreased our revenue and robbed us of a few million.

Irrespective we should be spending 㿀M this summer. But, I will reserve my judgement till the window is done. I got into some arguments on here when I claimed last summer that we would spend between 㿀 and 30M, and in the end that surprisingly came true. I donÂ’t think we will do that this year, but feel that we should take a wait and see approach.

Deulofeu coming in for cheap is not our fault: I expect most posters on here would have accepted us paying a 㾶M fee for him. I expect we paid a couple of million to Cleverley in a signing on fee too. We need creativity and a central defender, and IÂ’m hopeful that we will cough up some money for those players. Maybe we spend around 㾻M net come the end of the window, and improved our squad in the process.

I disagree regarding the holding midfielders . I think our problem was not the presence of two holding midfielders, but the performance of one of those mids, the style of football we played, and the creative failures of our attacking midfielders.

Our full backs are fantastic assets, and good enough to grace the Champions League. Playing two defensive midfielders allow them to get forward, and our midfielders can cover the space left. Unfortunately BarryÂ’s legs are gone, and I donÂ’t think he can do that job effectively week in week out.

Not Ernie #32, the Club is not amassing cash, the debt is growing every year despite the increasing yearly income, we can only buy players when we sell existing players.

That is not the financial structure of a well off club but of a club that lives hand to mouth each season.

IÂ’m not sure weÂ’re going to be buying potential - weÂ’re buying players who can play. Cleverley is established, and we know what weÂ’re getting in Deulofeu.

You can look across the park for a club wasting their money on potential!

Ernie,

Sorry I meant #29.
That happened to me also.

Didn't we reduce our debt in the last accounts?

If Sunderland, WHU, and Newcastle have big transfer budgets I struggle to believe that it is because they are well run. All have more debt than us. All spend similar amounts on wages. Only Newcastle have greater revenue.

Going back to the original point, I'm struggling with the concept that we spend less than everyone else because they are financially outperforming us. The clubs that keep getting quoted have more debt as a result of outspending us.

Do we want less debt or more signings? Can't have it both ways.

If EFC were well run, we would be watching from a new stadium like most other PL clubs, or at least from an improved one. Chelsea, West Ham and Spurs are the latest to be moving, while liverpool are building this summer. Kenwright has sat there for 16 years and basically we have gone backwards.

Ernie #42, no we didn't reduce our debt in the last accounts.