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Osman memoir causes a stir

by | 29/10/2014  Comments (171)  jump
Veteran midfielder on Cahill, Krøldrup, Moyes, etc

The first serialisation of Leon Osman's new memoir is being published in the Liverpool Echo and it's caused some lively reaction on social media.

Having spent well over a decade at Goodison Park, the veteran midfielder has plenty of experience from which to draw for his new book, "Ossie: My Autobiography" and there are plenty of the usual stories of behind-the-scenes antics by the likes of Paul Gascoigne and Duncan Ferguson.

He also describes the mystifying scene of David Moyes taking new 5m signing, Per Krøldrup aside in training to teach him how to head a ball.

"[The gaffer] started doing heading practice with him, like you would with a seven-year-old," Osman writes. "It was a case of holding the ball, saying: 'Are you ready? One, two, three — jump.'

"Honestly, it was incredible. I don't know what happened, but he had obviously realised that heading wasn't Per's strong point."

Unsurprisingly, Osman covers Moyes's departure and he explains that the former manager invited six of the senior players to meet him at the Thistle Hotel in Haydock to let them know of his decision to take up the role at Manchester United:

"Moyesy looked us straight in the eyes and told us he hadn't expected the offer. I absolutely believe what he told us. For me, he ran his contract down so it was easier to get offers like that but I genuinely don't believe he had United on his mind."

It's the 33-year-old's comments on Tim Cahill that have been the biggest topic of conversation among supporters, though, with Osman describing his surprise when the Australian appeared on the pitch for the send-off of Moyes and Phil Neville in May last year.

Evertonians had been denied the opportunity to say goodbye to the Australian fan favourite before he signed for New York Red Bull the previous July but he flew in for the duo's guard of honour and joined them on the Goodison turf for the celebrations.

"Our manager who has been there for 11 years (came out on to the pitch after Phil Neville who was retiring)," Osman writes. "That should have been it but who comes on the pitch last? Tim Cahill! I just couldn't believe it. It was incredible.

"Tim should have declined the offer in my opinion. He'd been unbelievable for Everton, one of the best signings ever, but that was Nev and Moyesy's moment and not his."  


Reader Comments (171)

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MIke McLean
1 Posted 29/10/2014 at 06:41:45
It isnÂ’t sufficient for Leon to demonstrate his inadequacies in front of thousands every week. He now has to flaunt them in book form.

HereÂ’s a simple, little test for you, Leon:

Which of the following names will be remembered with great affection by Evertonians in 20 years time?:

a. Osman
b. Moyes
c. Neville
d. Cahill

Once you have completed the test, kindly pack your bag and steal a living at Crewe, Brentford or Grimsby.

Mark Tanton
2 Posted 29/10/2014 at 06:54:03
I’m amazed that Moyes didn’t know Krøldrup better as his usual technique was to have a player watched for five seasons, observe his relationship with his mother, test him on European Renaissance history and take, personally, semen and stool samples. Then he’d change his mind and loan a Man Utd player.
James Ford
3 Posted 29/10/2014 at 06:56:31
I think you missed the point he was making there, Mike. Still, as long as you told everyone how much you hate Ossie, that’s the main thing...
Michael Penley
4 Posted 29/10/2014 at 07:01:39
Maybe it’s just me, but unless you’re Messi you probably shouldn’t be writing autobiographies and playing top league football at the same time. Where’d he find the time? Perhaps our training schedule isn’t as tough as it should be.
Mark Tanton
5 Posted 29/10/2014 at 07:19:22
Where did he find the time to sit down for an hour, twice a week with a ghost? How long do you think a professional footballer’s working day is? 9/10 - 1?
Trevor Lynes
6 Posted 29/10/2014 at 07:31:33
What the hell is wrong with a footballer writing memoirs? I’ve often considered writing about my life and no doubt so have many others.

Osman has been a great servant of the club and is one of the longest servers. I do not understand fans who castigate individual players when they say or do anything. He will be remembered far longer than those fans who are writing negative posts on here.

MIke McLean
7 Posted 29/10/2014 at 07:43:38
Not an Osman hater... a despiser of mediocrities in Everton shirts who have an inflated view of the worth of their ability & value of their opinion.

If you’re mediocre – shut up and don’t draw any more attention to yourself than absolutely necessary.

I fully appreciate the club needs to employ these people: we can afford a certain level of person in management / playing staff ... hence, I suppose, the long reign of Moyes.

Hope that helps those with the textual analysis skills of an eleven-year-old.

Colin Glassar
9 Posted 29/10/2014 at 07:55:38
I can’t see this getting on the NYT best seller list somehow.
Ray Roche
10 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:04:34
Mike @7.

So you don’t think that Osman will have any stories to tell after being with Everton since he was a lad? No,"behind the scenes" insights into our hero’s like Duncan Ferguson, Gary Speed or the car crash Gascoigne has become? Better we a have someone who was a superb footballer but with fuck all to say, eh? Anyone apart from the whipping boy.

And no, it wouldn’t help someone with the "textual analysis skills of an eleven-year-old......." Your comments just show someone trying to draw attention to himself by slagging off an Everton player who has done more for the club than you ever will...

James Ford
11 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:14:41
You’re an angry man, Mike.

I think I sat next to you once in the Park End...

Kevin Tully
12 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:08:45
I believe OFM made sure Leon had signed a new, improved contract even though he was on his way out. Just demonstrates how much power he wielded at the club – and how poorly his exit was handled.

Does anyone remember that video posted online of Krøldrup heading the ball during the warm-up? Fucking strange watching a footballer unable to head a ball – especially a defender.

Declan O'Shaughnessy
13 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:08:29
Wise words, Mike, and perhaps ones you should heed yourself.

In the various serialised extracts, the bit that made me chuckle was Ossie moaning that: "That seemed to be a recurring theme for the next three or four seasons. Wherever I’d just been playing, we strengthened."

It was almost as if the powers that be were trying to tell him something...

Anyways, good luck to him on the book front. And hopefully he’ll have something to celebrate at the end of this season before shuffling off into retirement (or kicking around at a lower level).

Alan Clarke
15 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:30:03
I hope his book covers his disastrous touch against Sunderland on Boxing Day last year that cost us the game. I hope there’s a whole chapter apologising for his performance in the 2009 FA Cup Final.

I’m an ’Ossie hater’ for the simple reason that he is utter shite. I’d love to see a stat of how many games he’s cost us vs the number of games he’s won for us. The former will easily outweigh the latter.

Dick Fearon
16 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:29:14
I cannot find words enough to wonder at the sheer bloody gall of criticizing the mighty Tim Cahill – a man with more fight, more guts, more goal scoring ability and dozens of more ’mores’ than this sniveling mediocrity.
Craig Walker
17 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:38:45
It’s not that unusual that Krøldrup couldn’t head a ball. We’ve had plenty down the years who couldn’t even kick a ball.
Dennis Stevens
18 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:37:18
I think some people just like to be outraged.
Adam Luszniak
19 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:41:26
Wow, between ’steal a living at Crewe’, and ’snivelling mediocrity’, there certainly is a huge amount of balanced and well thought out comment on this particular thread.
Mike Iddon
20 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:49:20
Mike McLean, if you think people will remember Phil Neville with more affection than Osman, then your comments are not worthy of any respect. It amazes me that people are so vitriolic about Osman considering some of the real shite that has played for the club. Thank God us on here aren’t the manager of the team.
Paul Gladwell
21 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:51:48
The incident where some players allegedly stole Osman’s phone and sent naughty texts to Moyes, Moyes replied to Osman’s apology, "I want names"!

What was he going to do? Wait outside Finch Farm for a straightener? The man is a clown, thank Christ he is no more.

Andrew Ellams
22 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:50:58
I am a bit shocked at the Tim Cahill comments. I’m sure I have seen interviews in the past were they both claimed to be best buddies.

Somehow I very much doubt that this book will rock the footballing world; I for one won’t be reading it.

Liam Reilly
23 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:55:03
"It was no surprise that Davie Moyes tried to sign players from Everton. I think, as fans, we should find it easy to forgive him. He loves the club, he really does."

Patronising twat. I dunno how many times Moyes’s comments and actions have disrespected the club since he announced that he was moving on; starting with Osman’s bumper new contract.

These books should be banned until the players have retired; of course, even less people would read it then.

Hugh Jenkins
24 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:52:25
Undoubtedly, "Ossie" can be frustrating but, he has also been capped by his country, an honour and recognition that a substantial percentage of his fellow professionals from England cannot boast, irrespective of the length of their service in the top flight.

On this basis, I assume he can’t be "that bad".

Whether or not he is famous/notorious enough for people, other than Evertonians, to want to read what he has to say, will ultimately determine how well the book sells.

Obviously the publishers think it has merit – otherwise, they wouldn’t take the risk of being left with huge unsold quantities on their hands.

Michael Penley
25 Posted 29/10/2014 at 08:39:51
I can’t even begin to imagine what enthralling tales of wisdom lie within this opus.

Leon: My Story (Tales from the Dressing Room)

"Too fair to worship, too divine to love."
It has oft been said that true greatness comes at a great cost, and I can vouch for that. Mr Moyes once said that I played well, after what I myself thought was an average performance against West Ham back in ’09. I think that goes to show that only others can judge you. Of course, they need to know you first, which is why I wrote this book. Moyes was someone who knew me. Phil did too. You might say not many Everton fans do. I hope this modest little work does something to change that, and that posterity will judge me accurately, and kindly. It’s the least I can do for what they’ve given me over the years.

I was born on the seventeenth day of the 1981st year of our Lord, under the sign of the Bull. I’ve always felt a strong connection with bulls. Maybe it’s their tirelessness, their steadfast attitude and unwillingness to be pushed aside. Nevertheless, on that day in May the stars were aligned for the birth of something. Whether that something was "great" I cannot say. Only time, only history will tell...

Geoff Evans
26 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:03:22
Mike #7. Can’t believe you’re attacking an Everton player with such ferocity. Criticism is one thing; criticism bordering on hate is totally unacceptable. Maybe you should take your own advice and shut up before you draw any more attention to yourself.
Tony J Williams
27 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:12:23
Can’t see anything wrong with what he said about Cahill to be fair. It wasn’t his leaving do.

When does the skill level have anything to do with writing books?

I think it will be good to have a "behind the scenes" look at what is going on at Goodison now and in the recent past. He is one of the jokers in the team and obviously isn’t "shite" because the last two managers have kept on picking him for the team.

Ernie Baywood
28 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:18:21
It’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. There’s nothing too controversial there.

Personally I’d prefer he left it until he hangs up his boots but that’s just my opinion.

Tony J Williams
29 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:25:58
"I hope his book covers his disastrous touch against Sunderland on Boxing Day last year that cost us the game."

I thought the game was lost because the fucking dope in goal gave Ki Sung-Yeung the easiest opportunity to dive and get a penalty and leaving us a man short.

Even then the man of the match was their keeper, who stopped us and the rest of the team from scoring... you know, the other 9 players that are to do their jobs too?

Also the Cup Final incident, maybe it should be Moyes apologising because he picked a clearly unfit Ossie and Hibbert to go against a player that was having his only purple patch in his career... add to that the twat Webb booking Hibbert for a run-of-the-mill foul.... and the fact that Lescott didn’t mark his man or Neville backing off and allowing Lampard room to shoot.....oops, sorry I am talking logic again and blaming the team for losing, not just the one player.

Anyway, this is all the past now.

Gerry Western
30 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:23:21
Mike, sometimes you just got to tell it how it is and, to be honest, I wouldn’t disagree with anything you said in your piece.

Osman also wrote in relation to Per Krøldrop: "I reckon if Per came back now, he’d be a lot better. It can take people a while to adapt to the physicality of the Premier League and he simply wasn’t ready."

In Osman’s case its taken an entire career and he’s never quite made it in terms of dealing with the physical demands of the Premier League. How he has the affront to criticise another pro in this respect beggars belief.

Finally, as for his comments regarding Cahill, he could do with following Tim’s example: when he realised it was best for him and the club that he move on, he did so. Sadly, Osman has chosen to remain.

Nick Page
31 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:35:56
CouldnÂ’t they have released this just before Christmas?
Dave White
32 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:40:30
Well said Tony.

I’m always stunned by this intense loathing of Ossie, he seems to elicit real hatred from some posters.

Personally, I see a genuinely skilful and intelligent player whose creativity and ability to pick a pass is amongst the best in the side. Notwithstanding all his appearances for the club and being capped by his country which suggests he may not be simply ’shite.’

Anyway, isn’t this thread about his book?

Brian Waring
33 Posted 29/10/2014 at 09:44:10
I think footballers should wait till they are retired and then write their books because, that way, they don’t have to hold back on what they have to say. This will be a nice cheery read, saying how great everyone is at the club, how Moyes was the best manager ever, Kenwright the best chairman ever, etc...
Tony J Williams
34 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:02:29
"Anyway, isn’t this thread about his book?"

It is, Dave, but that won’t get in the way of a good excuse for a repetitive rant.

Phil Walling
36 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:04:11
I’ve never understood the detestation of Leon Osman from some people posting in these columns. Recognised as a talented and good pro by successive managers, he has, by giving of his best, succeeded Phil Neville as ’the man we love to hate’.

Comeday-goday posers like Deulofeu and Drenche win the hearts and minds of many TWers whilst the honest guys like Ossie and Hibbo get dog’s abuse from some.

Why, in his benefit year, he should be despised for writing his memoirs is beyond me — although I imagine many of his detractors have never read a book in their lives!

Andrew Ellams
37 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:33:39
Leon is a solid pro who has played his whole career for a team that hasn’t really achieved anything in that time and virtually never courted any public controversy in the gutter press. Not really a recipe for a bestseller...
Jamie Barlow
39 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:27:23
A thread about Ossie is always going to bring out the bullshit from the "haters".

Didn’t he play a part in every league game in our best ever Premier League season only last year? Hasn’t he been picked regularly by our last two managers? Hasn’t he played over 300 games for Everton? Yet he can’t handle the physicality of the Premier League. Imagine what we’d have achieved last season if we played with 11 players.

Keep up the good work Ossie.

Dave Lynch
40 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:32:40
Thing about these books is this.

The writers IMO only give half-truths regards what goes on in dressing rooms and can only see it from "their" side. There are always two sides to any story, you also have litigation to take into account, as you could easily start a lawsuit for defamation of character if you get it "wrong".

You only have to skim Roy Keane’s literary masterpiece to realise most of it is bollox and designed to sell copies.

Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:46:45
Has anyone ever read a decent biography by a footballer? I for one have never had a real interest in what they have to say.

The ones I have tried to read have been mostly boring and I have never remembered hardly anything from what they had to say. I doubt OssieÂ’s will be any different. I donÂ’t think I will ever find out.

Matt Traynor
42 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:01:21
Brian #33, I have to agree. Wasn’t it Jaap Stam’s book where he suggested Man Utd tapped him up that basically got him bounced out of OT?

Also, I wouldn’t blame Tim Cahill for his cameo – it certainly wouldn’t have been his suggestion, rather someone who is more experienced in theatrical presentations, and possibly to aid in the deflection of the departure of the Moyesiah.

Steve Brown
43 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:03:38
Matt, I seem to remember an interview at the time where Cahill said he texted Kenwright to ask to come across. He said he didn’t feel he’d had the chance to say goodbye to the fans properly.
Mark Pierpoint
45 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:25:30
I was surprised when I saw that he had released an autobiography. He seems a nice bloke and has been a great servant but I agree that unless you are a either (1) a Messi figure (a genuine world star) (2) A fallen star (Gazza etc.) or a figure like Beckham whose career transcends football, then I am not sure what the point is.

He is entitled to his view on Moyes, it is not a particularly divisive one after all. On the other hand, I don’t think it is massively interesting. I think his view on Cahill is out of order and is going to create a story in Everton fan circles that is totally unnecessary and pointless.

Jack Cross
46 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:58:45
It’s pretty straightforward: buy it, read it... then you can judge it and him if you feel you need to.

As for Ossie, I’ve seen worse than him in a blue shirt and he has scored some fabulous goals.

As someone said above, he doesn’t pick himself – can two ever-so-different managers and the England coach be so wrong? I would say not.

Good luck to him.

Oscar Huglin
47 Posted 29/10/2014 at 10:59:05
One of the top servants of this club and a vitally important character to have in the squad.

I genuinely don’t understand the hate some people have for Ossie – he loves the club and always gives his all. My brother has always said if he had real pace he would have been one of the best players in Europe, and I completely agree with that. He’s intelligent, his first touch is magic, and he constantly finds ways to escape seemingly dodgy situations and keep the ball.

Find another scapegoat, because Osman doesn’t deserve all this hate. He’s a boyhood Evertonian who unfortunately came through in Rooney’s shadow, and never lived up to the hype surrounding him after his first season. He’s still been a fantastic servant to the club and someone we shouldn’t take for granted.

COYB.

Mike Childs
48 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:45:08
I look forward to reading the book. Must be the year for writing as Howard is also putting his thoughts to paper. A chance to learn more about the team and players we enjoy, where’s the downside?
Kevin Rowlands
49 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:45:40
That whole send off was farcical from the start, Moyes should have been shown the door as soon as he announced he was off.

Not really sure why Osman has a problem with Cahill getting involved though, he hadn’t had any sort of goodbye from the fans, was there at the game, and surely he deserved the appreciation showed a lot more than that useless phony Manc twat Neville.

Gerry Quinn
50 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:31:37
In this day and age of "loyal" footballers – no matter how good or bad they may be deemed to be by the fans – I find it refreshing to see players like Hibbo and Ossie still always giving their all to the club that they love... and guiding the younger players coming through. Give me their total loyalty and honest grafting attitude any day of the week.

But, there again, maybe we should all go along and duplicate the all-too-common plastic fans of today supporting a "team" of scum-faced moneybags playing for one season and then pissing off at the first cash-registering opportunity that comes along. Yes, in particular, the likes of the disgustingly greedy Suarez, Cole, et al.

I genuinely have more respect for the "through thick and thin" players and fans of Grimsby Town and Workington than any of the so-called world’s best!!!

I agree whole-heartedly that Hibbo and Osman are certainly not the greatest players in the world, but to me they are genuinely Everton through and through – just the same as you and me.

Thomas Surgenor
51 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:01:24
Leon is entitled to his opinion, as is everyone; however, I don’t agree.

I was in attendance at that West Ham game and I genuinely got chills down my spine when Tim Cahill appeared for the send-off his loyalty deserved! I couldn’t believe it.

Having him out last? I would have had it no other way! The man is the epitome of an Evertonian.

Look at how Moyes/Phil have spoken about Everton since they left – compare that to how Tim speaks about us and the pride of his time here. He constantly posts EFC related tweets. The man is a legend.

Geoff Evans
52 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:11:55
Well said, Gerry!
Kieran Riding
53 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:21:37
His loyalty cannot be doubted. His ability is allowed to be questioned by the punters who pay to watch us play however. He does walk round the place as if he owns it nowadays.

"Leon Osman, England international" – still brings a little smirk to my face though.

Paul Hughes
54 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:18:35
Ossie’s view on Cahill is an opinion, and he is entitled to that. Perhaps he’d forgotten that Tim got sent off after the final whistle on his last Goodison appearance, so didn’t get the full appreciation he deserved from the fans.

Apart from that, irrespective of opinions on Ossie as a player, this has the potential to be a fascinating read. He has been with one club for more than 20 years, how often will that be the case in the modern game?

How have things changed from the days of the Blessed Walter? I’ll be interested in what he has to say.

Kieran Riding
55 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:30:06
He’s deffo missed a trick by not calling the book "Fuck off, Osman!" however. I’d have probably purchased it if he’d done that.
Tony Doran
56 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:20:43
Tiny should have gone around the walk of honour a few more times. I liked Moyes as a manager but he did seem to be happy taking his knife to a gunfight. And I believe he defo knew he was on his way to OT well before he suggests. Robbie preferred taking a flame thrower.

Ossie has done well for us and for himself, but would anyone settle for another 10 years of him? Horses for courses but now we shop for better.

I could write a more interesting book and I only played West Cheshire. As for Tiny, the bloke is untouchable.

Tony J Williams
57 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:43:07
I don’t want to cause a stir, Tony, but that flame thrower caused defeats at Anfield, White Hart Lane, Stamford Bridge and The City of Manchester Stadium... also at the Emirates in the Cup. So, even though it is possibly a different mindset, the players are the same and bottled it.
Andrew Clare
58 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:44:19
Sometimes, the less you know about people, the better the impression you have of them. A bit like artists and musicians.
Mike Barrett
59 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:46:16
The more posts I read from Phil Walling, the more I find myself agreeing with him...

Help me, someone!!!!

Harold Matthews
60 Posted 29/10/2014 at 11:50:09
Distin reckons Osman is one of the main reasons the spirit in the dressing room and on the pitch is so good. Managers love him because he tries to play with intelligence and covers every blade of grass.

Personally, I’ve always thought he tried to do too much and it has caught up with him. Trodden underfoot in physical games and no longer able to track back, he is still extremely useful when brought on for the final 30 minutes.

As for his book. Who cares? My only reading interests are ToffeeWeb and the Racing Post.

Paul Joy
61 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:50:45
Mike #7

Refer to your own 2nd paragraph and practice what you preach.

Tony J Williams
62 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:53:49
Not going to buy it, hopefully one of my mates will and I will lend it off him.

It will be interesting to see what the place was like under Moyes, but as already said, it will be diluted because he is still playing and he doesn’t want to be sued.

Mark Dunford
63 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:52:53
Quite often it is an unpredicted sports book that tells the best story and the quality is often down to the co-author. I reckon Roddy Doyle’s work with Roy Keane is worth reading – Doyle is an excellent writer. Serialisation in the press is a way of gathering publicity for the book which for some reason publishers continue to think is a means to boost sales despite the best bits having been read.

I don’t know much about the book as I haven’t read it or the extracts. The first contribution in this thread has been roundly and justifiably debunked immediately after it was posted.

Thanks to James Ford (3). Having said all this, I think My Autobography, which is widely used from Charlie Chaplin to Alex Ferguson, is a dreadful title and is simply poor English. Autobiography means it is your story...

Craig Walker
64 Posted 29/10/2014 at 12:56:43
Slightly off topic but still book-related. Has anyone read the book ’In Search of Duncan Ferguson’ and is it worth a read? Dunc was my favourite player back in the day.
Kieran Riding
65 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:06:46
Mark #63

To be fair, if you’re Roy Keane or Sir Alex, you have a bit more to say possibly? Rather than "stayed at Everton all my career, made millions of pounds and won fuck all?"

Robbie Muldoon
66 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:11:17
The synopsis better read:

For the Goodison faithful, Leon Osman represents everything that Everton Football Club failed on for an entire decade and more, we can’t recall a song sang about ’Ossie’ but it is said he has his admirers. He gets the arm band when enough others are injured, the longest-serving player bar Hibbert and one of a select band of players to have hung out the arse of David Moyes including Phillip Neville. Ossie never wins a tackle or gets sent off. He is the embodiment of lower league football values – and managed to get as many caps for England as Michael Ball.

Mark Dunford
67 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:21:03
Kierran (65). "Possibly" is my answer – though some really good football books have been written by relative unknowns or unsung players. Just depends what you have to say and how it is put.

Mick Rathbone’s book was really good on Everton under Moyes; Stuart Imlach’s on Everton in 60s and 70s was excellent; and Garry Nelson’s Left Foot Forward is wonderful account of journeyman career. It is the combination of writer and subject that works best in my view.

I hated Hornby’s book FeverPitch and thought there was something dubious about Bill Bruford’s Among the Thugs – both regarded highly. I haven’t read Keane’s book but the extracts broadcast on the Radio were really good.

Peter Fearon
68 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:19:06
Osman is not a bad player. He has put in many solid performances. He has amassed tremendous experience and Everton profits from that experience in game after game. He is just not an inspiring player. He is not the kind of player who thrills you with anticipation when he gets the ball but he does an important job. Like all players he makes errors, some egregious.

As for his remarks about Tim Cahill, they are ridiculous and I sense there was some jealousy there. If 20,000 people are showing a player their appreciation, it doesn’t cut the love in half to have a second person there also receiving plaudits. There is something pathologically wrong with someone who thinks it does.

Gerry Quinn
69 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:27:05
I’ve supported Everton all of my career – I can’t begin to add up what I’ve spent and I’ve seen them win titles and cups. Unfortunately there are lots of Evertonians that cannot say that nowadays, as the status of the playing field level has surpassed the slope of the Yeovil Town pitch!

I am a genuine believer in Everton upsetting that apple cart in the not so distant future – and when that happens, it will feel so, so much better for me than any of the success we earned in those great days of the past.

It will be down to the hard work, the honesty and the graft of players like Hibbo and Osman that will have installed into those around them what this great club of ours is all about.

Mike Allison
70 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:31:08
I’ll be remembering Osman and Cahill with more affection than Moyes and Neville. He’s the best of those three players, and he hasn’t sacked the club off and turned on us completely when he thought he’d hit the big time.

All players should be judged on their strengths and weaknesses. Despising Osman because you want him to be something he’s not is ridiculous.

Iakovos Iasonidis
71 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:37:26
Osman writing a biography, strange one and not very interesting. Cahill’s would be good – coming from another continent as a young lad... Pienaar’s would be nice. Either way, he rushed to write a biography, I think maybe good news is coming... retirement announcement around Christmas!
Callum McNab
73 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:48:49
There is no doubt that Ossie has been a great servant to the club, as the club has been to Ossie.

My daughter follows Tim on Twitter and the man lives and breaths Everton, he constantly comments on how amazing the fans at Everton are and how he misses playing in front of us... So, in my opinion, for Ossie to try and belittle Tim in this manor doesnÂ’t show himself in a good light as far as IÂ’m concerned.

Regarding defending Moyes, IÂ’m sorry there is no defending a man who undermined the players, the fans and our glorious club in the way he behaved throughout his last season (particularly at the end). To say he genuinely believed Moyes when he stated he had only just found out... IÂ’m sorry, that is bollocks, especially when Ferguson had already stated that Moyes had phoned him months earlier stating Everton wanted him to sign a new contract. Ferguson told him that would be the worst thing he could do... Why was that?

I agree with many in their comments that the book should be left till he either hangs his boots up or moves on elsewhere . But I will be supporting him while he still wears our beloved blue shirt and hope any comments he makes donÂ’t derail our improving season in anyway.

Mike Gwyer
74 Posted 29/10/2014 at 13:56:34
Mike Allison (#70).

After reading your post, this request is just for my information: what are the good points regarding Osman? You stated you will remember him with affection, I just want to know why?

I’m a life-long blue covering the late ’70s, ’80s and ’90s so I’ve obviously got some very good memories of some very good games and players. None of these memories include Osman.

Over the last decade, the big, big games have been few and far between so really it should be easy to let me know the through ball or the tackle or even the goal – you know, like Arteta’s goal at Villarreal or Jagielka’s tackle on Torres at Anfield.

I’m not taking the piss, I just want to know what’s worth remembering about Osman? Personally, I think he’s shite – not Bakayoko shite, but shite all the same... and for me he does a real good job of hiding for 90 minutes.

Harold Matthews #60 - Your posts are always worth a read and quite often they make a lot sense, but please, how did you work this out regarding Osman – "covers every blade of grass".

Denis Richardson
75 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:19:24
It would be an interesting read given it cover things in the recent past (assuming most of it is the truth and not sensationalised to sell a few more copies).

I have to agree with the Cahill comment: I found it strange that he was on the pitch given he’d already left a while back. To be honest, I found the whole farewell thing very odd and cringeworthy given Neville was shite in the last year or two and Moyes was just picking up his pay cheque and not doing much else at the end.

At least he confirms what we all thought at the time, which was that Moyes was simply running down his contract in the last couple of years to a) keep getting paid massive amounts and b) make himself cheaper to be hired. Guess that was his right to do but, given the crap he came out with about signing a new contract and future plans, it still irritates me.

He knew for ages that that would be his last contract at Everton but was happily pocketing ٢M a year, with no pressure, whilst having the audacity to moan that players earn to much – himself being the highest paid person at the club at that time! He’ll never get as sweet a deal with any other club, as he did with us.

٢M a year, to win fuck all and finish 7th!

Gerry Quinn
76 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:35:18
You will love this one then Mike Gwyer...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leon-osmans-top-10-greatest-8016098?

Doesn’t really explain why those moments are so great, but I know you will be keen to run through it, along with all of the other Os fans!

:)

Aidan Wade
77 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:08:02
The abuse a servant like Ossie gets from some people is shocking. A useful player for a decade who was a couple of yards offpace and/or a couple of pounds of upper body bulk away from being too good for us.

His days in blue are numbered and his legs are knackered but he’s still an intelligent, tidy footballer with a sharp mind (recent quick free anybody?). We can wish we had Iniesta winding down instead but there you go.

Bile Merchants:
Step away from the keyboard, have a cup of tea and watch a sunset. Chill out and enjoy the perspective it brings. Being the angriest and hating Osman, Hibbert, Howard the most doesn’t make you a "fan", your brain is simply overheating.

Aidan Wade
78 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:40:38
Jay Harris
79 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:24:01
First of all, Tim Cahill, is more of an Evertonian than Moyes and Neville put together.

Secondly, Ossie is being extremely naive if he believes Moyes did not know he was heading to Old Trafford.

Even his daughter came out and dropped him in it by claiming he knew he was going there before it was announced.

Anyway, it is a chapter in Everton history I would prefer to put behind us because of the way it was handled.

Denis Richardson
80 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:41:59
Sorry Aiden @77, I can’t stop my blood boiling when I think of OFM and the couple of years wasted with him just running down his massive contract and being smug enough to think we should worship him for his ’achievements’. Twat!

Personally I have nothing against Ossie, Hibbo or McGeady – just think none of them are good enough for a regular starting spot. However, they are all relatively cheap and do a job in the squad.

Not their fault if the manager picks them....they’re hardly going to say, ’Nah, don’t fancy it, gaffer’....

Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:40:57
Mike Barrett (#59)

Most probably because Phil usually writes a lot of sense and took his blue glasses off a long time ago.

Paul Ellam
82 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:39:16
I will always remember Osman as a footballer that gave his all for the club. He may not be the best we’ve seen on our pitch but he certainly did his best.

I will read his book, although I am not sure it will be too controversial – he seems a bit of a "steady eddie" to me!

I will also always remember him for that goal he scored against Larissa – one of the best goals I’ve seen from an Everton player.

John Scott
83 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:01:50
If you watch all your old season review DVDs you will see some cracking goals from Leon. Not many tap-ins that’s for sure.
Peter Gorman
84 Posted 29/10/2014 at 14:56:19
Mike Gwyer - are you serious? None of your happy moments involve Ossie.

How about that goal against Larissa? His winner against Man City 2 seasons ago to name but two. Some of his goals are worthy of far greater players but instead people on here flippantly refer to him ’losing’ us a game against Sunderland. What about his equaliser in the derby ’saving’ us a game – not to mention the numerous times he ’won’ us points?

I won’t read his book because, even in a field with as many challengers as football, he comes across as a particularly empty vessel. However, let’s not pretend he wasn’t a good player.

Kieran Riding
85 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:06:14
John #83

I’ve just dug out "The Magnificent 7th" DVD, the season review of the 2002-03 season. I’ll get back to you.

Peter Gorman
86 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:04:25
John Scott, I agree. Dust off those DVDs and enjoy or watch here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew7wfcQw7nE

Lyndon Lloyd
87 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:35:42
Gerry (69). You encapsulate my feelings exactly. Leon has been a valuable part of the side for a decade and I wouldn’t have had it any other way.

And when we do finally break through the glass ceiling, it’s going to feel fantastic. I just hope we can retain the soul of the club when we do.

Paul Thompson
88 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:43:24
Been reading this site for a long time now. One thing I’ve observed - there is a strong association between the degree of hatred for Ossie and the inability to offer insights of any kind on football.

The hatred is almost enough to make me buy the book, but not quite. Most footie books are, unlike Ossie, shite.

Kieran Riding
89 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:52:57
I’m now going to dust off the 2009 FA Cup Final DVD. I’ve forgotten how our lifelong blues played in that game...
Duncan McDine
90 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:30:21
I have no interest at all in reading footballerÂ’s autobiographies, so the thought of reading OssieÂ’s memoirs actually makes me cringe. I have nothing against him, but itÂ’s not going to be a page turner, is it?
Tony J Williams
91 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:53:33
I understand Ossie’s shortcomings as much as anybody but some of the vitriol flung at him in this thread in particular is totally undeserved. Nobody suggests he is the best player in the world but there have been one or two seasons when he has been the most creative player we have had, just as creative as that erstwhile hero of ours, Arteta. During the ’05/’06/’07 period he was a great substitute and starter whose contribution won us a lot of games, including some very important, and some very good, goals.

Ossie’s biggest problem was his parents. They did not provide him with the genes to grow six inches taller and two stone heavier. If this had been the case, I am convinced he would have been a regular England player. His ability to pick out a pass is amongst the best we have had in years and was it three years ago he was in contention as our best Player of the Season?

I agree that, just like Pienaar, his best days are now behind him but he will remain a very useful squad player for a season or two yet.

Sometimes I do regret the tendency of some Blues to pick on a player then just absolutely refuse to see any of the good points about him at all. When Ossie finally hangs up his boots, I will be happy to give him a round of applause.

Dave Roberts
92 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:39:06
I understand Ossie’s shortcomings as much as anybody but some of the vitriol flung at him in this thread in particular is totally undeserved. Nobody suggests he is the best player in the world but there have been one or two seasons when he has been the most creative player we have had, just as creative as that erstwhile hero of ours, Arteta. During the ’05/’06/’07 period he was a great substitute and starter whose contribution won us a lot of games, including some very important, and some very good, goals.

Ossie’s biggest problem was his parents. They did not provide him with the genes to grow six inches taller and two stone heavier. If this had been the case, I am convinced he would have been a regular England player. His ability to pick out a pass is amongst the best we have had in years and was it three years ago he was in contention as our best Player of the Season?

I agree that, just like Pienaar, his best days are now behind him but he will remain a very useful squad player for a season or two yet.

Sometimes I do regret the tendency of some Blues to pick on a player then just absolutely refuse to see any of the good points about him at all. When Ossie finally hangs up his boots, I will be happy to give him a round of applause.

Martin Mason
93 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:09:18
This board has a certain reputation for negativity but the character assassination of a great Everton player is the lowest I’ve seen it go. Leon was the top English player in every age group that he represented his country and has been a great servant to the club. He is as good as he is and that is all he can be especially given his small stature in an area dominated by players who dwarf him. For me he’s been a great player despite being played out of position for most games and a lovely bloke to boot. Lay off him
Harold Matthews
94 Posted 29/10/2014 at 15:19:17
Mike G. I’ve always thought he tried to cover far too much ground because it used to annoy me. One minute he’d be in the opponent’s penalty area, the next minute he’d be in our own area, trying to help CBs and both fullbacks but often getting in the way. After 60 minutes, his legs would start to wobble. Despite his present lack of mobility, he’ll still tries to help out at the back when I’d much prefer he stayed upfield.

You’ve obviously never taken to him. Many people don’t like Martinez, McGeady, Alcaraz and Lukaku. I’m the same with Tim Howard but nowhere near the level of your dislike for Osman. Wow Mike, This fella has really got under your skin.

Mike Barrett
95 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:30:18
Craig @64 (re Dunc’s book):

Not a great read, mate... very disappointing in fact. You can have my copy!!

Gerry Quinn
96 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:24:38
Lyndon (thanks), and Michael K - I hope you both sit down when you have the time and write a book about ToffeeWeb. What a read that would be.

We should all lighten up on the vitriol and biased opinions (we’re not going to change our minds, are we?) and think of a title for their book...how about...

"Everything about Everton is going to Kill Everybody"!
"To kill a mocking Evertonian"
"What to say when you talk to yourself"

Kevin Tully
97 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:28:53
Osman, along with Pienaar, lack power in their shooting. If they both had a decent shot on them, they would have scored a hell of a lot more.

How many times have they both had sight of goal, only for the ball to end up scuffed, or to roll harmlessly into the goalie’s grasp?

Both decent players, and I would rate them both as mid-table plodders.

Martin Mason
98 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:36:45
I remember Frank Lampard saying that Leon was the best young player ever seen in the schoolboy days, that he could do anything. Like many, though, he didnÂ’t make the transition to the top level well, but I think that he did his best and was loyal in an age of mercenaries.

ItÂ’s odd though to see him being played so often now when he is past his best and when we have so many good players coming through.

Jim Hourigan
99 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:41:31
Moyes senior, who I had got to know the preceding year through his scouting work, was clear that his son was off to Man Utd and the deal had already been struck. He described the meetings that had taken place and told me he too had been offered a job working with Man Utd youngsters but had declined, saying he would not come back and poach youngsters, as he had too much respect for Everton.

Consequently, when he did join his son, he was given an international scouting role rather than working with local youngsters as he had with Everton.

Some may choose not to believe this, but there are others on the children’s scouting structure at Everton who were also fully aware of DM’s plans and could vouch for the authenticity. However, he has gone... and, whilst not totally forgotten, is fast fading from the memory.

Kieran Riding
100 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:59:15
Jim #99
Interesting stuff that mate, and fair play to you for posting it.
Richard Nelson
101 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:56:05
I saw Ossie play about 13/14 years ago in a reserve game at Solihull BoroughÂ’s ground against Birmingham City; Big Dunc played as well. I thought at the time that Ossie was neat & tidy, but weak under pressure... nothingÂ’s changed!
Gavin Johnson
102 Posted 29/10/2014 at 16:41:43
I for one, will buy the book. It probably won’t be quite the ’warts and all’ book it could be if he was retired, but I’d like to hear his views on Walter Smith’s final months with Gazza and Ginola in the side, going through to Moyes and now Roberto.

I really like Ossie, he’s been a great servant and I always thought he was one of the better players in the team that clinched 4th. He was also unfortunate that there were always players ahead of him in his favoured position (central midfield) and that’s not denigrating his ability. We had the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Fellaini and Rodwell in those sides. So he got placed on the wings more often than not. He’s got to play more in his favoured position in the last few years and I don’t think that there’s no coincidence that he got a few England caps on the back of this.

He’s never been the strongest and he can’t do 90 minutes, but I still think he’s a player that can come on and put in a shift in. He gave the side a lot more attacking impetus when he came on at OT recently.

Kieran Riding
103 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:05:28
So Leon wants an actual song about him, rather than "Leon, Leon," he says.

Well then, this may need its own thread... and could get interesting.

John Hughes
104 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:11:05
Judging by this lot, I reckon Ossie’s new nickname should be ’Marmite’.

For what it’s worth, Dave Roberts #92 sums it up for me and like others, I have been following the Blues for over 50 years.

Graham Mockford
105 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:15:56
Everyone has opinions on Ossie, thatÂ’s the nature of football opinion. What surprises me, however, is the bile and opprobrium he seems to attract from some of his own fans.

As far as IÂ’m aware, he has never selected himself in the 397 times he has worn a blue shirt. He is in the top 15 all-time appearances for Everton and IÂ’ve seen him in many of those games. IÂ’ve seen him have good games, IÂ’ve seen him have poor games (more of the former in my opinion) but IÂ’ve never seen him not try and put a shift in.

HeÂ’s coming to the end of his career, and his appearances will inevitably reduce, but anyone who plays for their boyhood club through an entire career at the highest level deserves better than the frankly mean-spirited and mealy-mouthed abuse typified by Mike McLean at the start of this thread.

Mike Price
106 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:50:49
Obviously he’s a decent footballer but has been limited for a while now and should never start a Premier League game again.

The Cahill remarks have pissed me off though and I agree that they do seem to stem from jealousy. Tim is an Everton legend and deserves 10 times the accolades and appreciation over Moyes and Neville. For Osman not to understand that is bizarre.

Tim Cahill will always be an Everton icon and a hero to many, Osman, Neville and Moyes... not so much!

Bobby Thomas
107 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:59:37
The perpetual, wall-to-wall indignation of the football fan is utterly tedious.
Paul Ferry
108 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:49:39
IÂ’m sorry but with respect this is simply untrue.

Martin Mason @93: Â’Leon was the top English player in every age group that he represented his countryÂ’.

If you love him to death just say so and why, but to make up such hyperbole helps nobody.

Osman is a fine squad player who has done some good things and some bad things in the past. I find it pointless to try to tot them up and pronounce some sort of definitive statement about him. He is what he is: no star, not great; sometimes good, sometimes bad (more often sometimes bad in the more recent past). He is a loyal servant who is now long past his Â’bestÂ’ and is heading gradually and not ungracefully towards the door.

I wouldn’t waste a penny on the book. I’ll just follow the fuss on here. But I do want to say that Osman’s blinkered loyalty to Moyes utterly astonishing and a certain indication that, whatever you think of him on the pitch, he is astonishingly naïve and gullible off it in this mess at any rate.

Also, I do love the idea/image of the senior six legging it to Haydock – why Haydock FFS? – to get the news and sitting down to have a glass of cham... no, hang on... a tepid cup of tea, sitting sipping placing cup correctly on saucer with not too much noise as Moyes feeds them full of shite about his new job.

Patrick Murphy
109 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:01:01
A few suggestions on what the title of a TW book may be? Obviously this wouldn’t cover the majority of posters but one or two contributors may on occasion deserve to be the authors of the following titles.

01 The Hollow Chocolate Toffees Of The Apocalypse
02 Beats, Shoots and Misses; The Zero Tolerance Approach to failure on a football pitch.
03 Me Talk Pretty One Day
04 How To Lose Friends And Alienate People
05 Fear And Loathing In A Northern City
06 No Football Club For Old Men
07 Smashed, Squashed, Splattered, Chewed, Chunked and Spewed.
08 Are You Loathsome Tonight?
09 A great deal more than 12 Angry Men (and Women)
10 Because it is Bitter and Because it is My Heart.

Steven Twine
110 Posted 29/10/2014 at 17:54:25
Whatever anyone thinks of him as a footballer, or as a man off the field, it’s his comments about Moyes coming back in to buy Fellaini and Baines which have pissed me off.

He’s says to much has been made of Moyes coming in for those players!! Does he not remember the comments Moyes made about Everton not standing in the way of those players because Manchester United are bigger than Everton? Does he not remember the paltry bids he put in?

Moyes did more to unsettle those two than Hughes did with Lescott. But reading some of the bits of the book in the Echo, he comes across as a Moyes boy, like Neville. The comments about Cahill are wrong: he did so much for the club, he deserved to be out there with Moyes and Neville. I was there and he got a bigger cheer than Moyes and Neville.

Graham Mockford
111 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:25:29
Patrick

You may have missed

Royston Drenthe – A Norwegian love affair.

Mike Allison
112 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:13:47
Mike Gwyer #74,

Thankfully in the time I’ve been away from the computer others posters have provided your ’moments’.

However, I’m not particularly fussed about ’moments’, I’m a fan of Ossie for the way he’s represented Everton Football Club with skill, class and dignity for over 10 years.

I’ve seen him tracking back to corner flags, playing out of position, providing touch, technique and quality passing in all circumstances and under great pressure. I’ve seen him beat players in tight spots with quick feet, I’ve seen him link up and combine well with all kinds of players who’ve come through the door, often to go out again. I’ve seen him be part of triumph and despair, I’ve seen him support team mates, acknowledge the support of fans and give his all when more celebrated players haven’t.

I haven’t seen him spilling out of nightclubs at 3am, I haven’t seen him court controversy, get some stupid haircut to garner attention. I’ve never seen him cheat, dive or feign injury. I’ve never, ever seen him hide and think that’s a ridiculous accusation, especially given that he’s a player who’s had stick and has noticeably not hidden when some of the lesser characters in football might have done.

He’s continued to offer for the ball, take shots on, and make tackles – despite it not being his strong suit – even when he knows that fans like you will whinge and moan if it doesn’t come off. I’ve seen him do whatever the manager has asked of him in any situation. I’ve seen him play for England, and I’ve seen him lose his place in the starting XI but continue to play whatever role for Everton Football Club he’s been asked to do.

I simply don’t understand why some Everton fans continue to denigrate one of their own who has represented them so well for so long. Yes, he’s not strong, he’s not quick, but that makes his success and achievements all the more praiseworthy given that he hasn’t been blessed with the natural physical attributes that almost seem to be a pre-requisite for successful Premier League players these days.

As for his comments on Cahill being on the pitch at Moyes and Neville’s farewell, that is simply a non-story. I don’t understand why anyone cares that he expressed surprise at something that was probably quite surprising at the time.

Eddie Dunn
113 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:27:55
I may be wrong, as I have not read his tome, but my mate ghostwrote a book for an ex-Everton player and was struggling to get any decent anecdotes out of him. They are mostly bland personalities, and have too many vested interests in the "Game" to piss off their peers. Only people like Roy Keane can do that.

I suspect it would only be of minor interest.

Ossie has always tried hard, and remember how he went out on loan to Derby. A Derby pal of mine said that they loved him there.

He struggled with consistency in the early part of his career, but fair play to him for getting into the England side. It’s not his fault that he gets picked, instead of warming the bench like he should.

He may be a trifle jealous of the great Tim Cahill, whose autobiography, I expect, will be worth reading.

James Stewart
114 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:46:29
Sounds like a boring read to me if those are the highlights.
Paul Hewitt
115 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:04:21
So Osman wants fans to forgive Moyes. He can piss right off. No way will I ever forgive that two-faced liar.
Graham Mockford
116 Posted 29/10/2014 at 18:57:48
It always surprises me when I hear "Duncan Ferguson, Everton legend", despite his piss poor scoring record, his record number of sendings-off and his poor attitude when he wasn’t playing the RS or Man Utd, or the fact you were lucky to get 20 games a season out of him.

I compare him to Ossie and I know who has contributed more to our club.

Sean Kelly
118 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:08:53
I wouldnt buy any modern day footballer’s book. They are all full of their own importance. FFS all they have done is kick a fucking ball around. It’s not as if any of them are going to save mankind FFS.
And yes, it’s Ossies fault I’m in a grumpy mood.
Kieran Riding
119 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:21:24
Sean, read Gary Abletts if you can. That’s one that is worth the paper it’s written on.
Gavin Johnson
120 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:16:43
Duncan Ferguson is a legend, Graham... and that’s just on his performances against Man Utd and the RS. Nearly all my best memories in the ’90s (when we were shite) were because of that guy.
Paul Hewitt
121 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:29:06
Gavin @120, As much as I liked Duncan Ferguson, no way is he a legend. Ball, Kendall, Harvey... yes; the ’85 team...yes; Duncan Ferguson? Not a chance.
Iakovos Iasonidis
122 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:15:44
I enjoyed the part about Simon Davies though...I really didn’t rate him, I know I am biased, I believe he was total crap. (No wonder he now pays to play ! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-premier-league-star-simon-davies-4196590 )
But keeping Osman on the bench would make me like him a bit more..
John Crawley
123 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:37:02
Osman’s been a good player and servant to Everton, the same as Tim Cahill. He’s in decline now and is best used as a substitute when he can still influence games.

His comments about Moyes and the Man Utd job are extremely naïve, particularly given the information that has subsequently come out about when he was approached about the job. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it’s most probably natural for him to be loyal to Moyes given that he owes his Everton career to him. I think his comments about Cahill are ill-advised and come across as petty.

Martin Mason is right about him being highly rated when he was younger. From what I remember reading, he had a serious knee injury and as a result of this he lost some of his pace, which, if true, obviously affected him in developing to his full potential.

Mike Gwyer
124 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:45:55

Mike Allison #112.

Great. Personally, its always just been just Everton for me but I’ve known Blues who have had a affinity to individual players.

Read your post several times though and I’m still not "on it" regarding how you personify Osman for the great player you see him as. Yep, I’m aware that he played where he had no right to, but putting round pegs into square holes don’t make Osman a good player. But... you know what, let’s leave it; it’s just all blah blah blah at the end of the day. We are both blues and we support the greatest team in the land.

Oh, on the subject of why Osman was "surprised" to see Cahill on the day Moyes left Goodison. There was no surprise at all. Did you think that BK was going to let Moyes leave his stage as the star attraction; fuck he was. BK went and got a real Everton legend and the audience loved it. Well played, BK, is what I say.

Tony Doran
125 Posted 29/10/2014 at 19:53:13
I’m going to leave this thread with this: Ossie is what he is. Great servant to the club and can’t be expected to turn around and say "Gaffer, I totally agree with the majority of the fans; I’m not very good so I think you should rip up my contract."

He’s earned a good living and Everton have had a Premier League midfielder for 10 years on a low (compared to most) wage. If you wanna minge it, you get what you pay for. T

he reason he lasted so long is because no other club wanted to give us money for him. Only last year with Baines have we seen off any real offer for our best players. If you were offered Ossie again from his early 20s for the next 10 years, how many would be happy with that. I for one would be ill.

Jay Rollinson
126 Posted 29/10/2014 at 20:23:14
Seeing as though he’s long been renowned as the joker in the Everton dressing room, are there any laughs in Leon’s book?
Paul Dark
127 Posted 29/10/2014 at 20:25:17
I’ve never met Leon Osman, and I dare say he’s entitled to write what he wants – though I’m surprised he has brought out an autobiography. I sense (from interviews etc.) that he has a very high opinion of himself, which is ironic given that he is a sub-mediocre player at very best.

He has cost us many, many points over the years – still does. I am astonished that Martinez continues to pick him; quite, quite flabbergasted.

Ian Tunstead
128 Posted 29/10/2014 at 20:06:21
Osman has been stealing a living from Everton for a decade. I have played with and against better players at amateur level. How he has lasted so long at a Premier League club, I will never know.

I don’t think I have seen a worse footballer play so long in the Premier League. Robbie Savage was shite but he could make a tackle and got stuck in. Danny Murphy was garbage but he would score a few vital goals each season. Osman’s only quality Premier League attribute is his first touch but he flatters to deceive far too often because usually his second touch makes his first touch redundant.

The lad can’t or won’t tackle, runs like he’s running in treacle, and has no skill to beat a man. He isn’t the best at putting a cross in, can’t head a ball, has no engine, gets brushed aside too easily, but usually can’t even keep up with the play to attempt to challenge or close down the opposition.

His shooting is pathetic and far too many times has wasted excellent build-up play from the rest of the team with his inaccurate powder-puff shooting. Most of the time, he is non existent and makes it seem like we are playing with 10 men. He’s not even the type of player like Hibbert who you think is shite but gives it 100%; his lack of effort or running around is an insult to all Evertonians.

Taking all that into account, why would anyone in their right mind think he was good enough to play for a Premier League club? He’s the type of player who would be good in five-a-side team but on a big muddy pitch is far too ineffective. The sooner he retires, the better.

Ben Dyke
130 Posted 29/10/2014 at 21:15:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBruzHqrLIg

This moment as mentioned previously is what I will never forget about Ossie. And his whole career was worth it for this moment in my opinion!

Kieran Riding
131 Posted 29/10/2014 at 21:23:55
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leon-osmans-top-10-greatest-8016098
Michael Penley
132 Posted 29/10/2014 at 21:07:30
Let’s face it, Tim Cahill was and is an arrogant guy (just listen to any of his interviews) which could explain Leon’s attitude towards him, but he’s also a true Evertonian. He’s always posting comments about our games and obviously still takes an interest in us and supports us as a lifelong fan would. How often do you see that in a footballer?

He’s the opposite of a mercenary, and the opposite of Neville and Moyes who turned their backs on us as soon as they left. Coming back to say goodbye to the fans shows both his sides – he wanted to make a gesture to the fans because he didn’t get the chance before, and he assumed that he was and still is loved as much as he thinks. In both cases he was right.

Patrick Murphy
133 Posted 29/10/2014 at 21:36:26
Whatever we think of the guy, Leon Osman has lived every working-class boys dream, he worked hard to get his place in the team and he kept working to retain his place in the team, it’s only really the last 12 months that his legs have shown signs of ageing and that has seen him unable to move around the park as much as he would have hoped.

Technically he is a fairly gifted player and his intelligence in a football sense is without question. Like some on here I also feel that if Everton are to move forward the club needs to find younger versions of those like ’Ossie’ but what you can’t fault is his commitment to the cause and even when not at his best he always looks for the ball.

I had the good fortune to meet his family some years ago and they are as nice a group of down-to-earth people you could wish to meet and I’m led to believe that Leon is exactly the same - people like Ossie are a dying breed in the mercenary world of football and despite his short-comings we will miss him when he leaves the club, let’s hope we can unearth a stronger younger version of Ossie in the near future.

Colin Grierson
134 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:20:06
Mike #7

That was a mediocre post. The prosecution rests, m’lud.

Mike Allison
135 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:29:25
Cheers Mike. But to be clear, I’m not even saying Osman is a ’great’ player. This is often the problem on ToffeeWeb, people have an extreme view (ie, Osman is shite), and assume anyone disagreeing with them must be of the opposite extreme (ie, Osman is a great player). I, and others, often faced the same misconception when defending David Moyes against his detractors. I dare say the same will happen with Martinez as more and more weaknesses become apparent. The same is already beginning to happen with Lukaku.

I say Osman was (is, has been) a good player. His technique is sound and he is tactically aware. He is only lacking physically – I contend that a 6ft 2in Osman with pace and a hammer of a shot would be worth tens of millions.

My main point is about the character he has shown and he has been a big part of the way our ’dressing room’ has outperformed bigger names, higher wage bills and enormous transfer spends through it’s togetherness and team spirit. I’m proud we’ve had a guy like Osman representing us and it’s one of the many things that enables me to feel smugly superior to supporters of any other other football club in the world.

Our own fans slagging off our own players on internet forums has the opposite effect. There’s enough bastards out there ready to do us, our club, our players and our fans down; I don’t see why we have to do it to ourselves.

Just to reiterate, here’s what Osman said about Cahill: "He’d been unbelievable for Everton, one of the best signings ever."

Tommy Campbell
136 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:28:10
’Big John Carew’ didn’t join Villa until 2007. So I’m not sure how he can comment on Krøldrup being annihilated by him in 2005.

Really disappointed in this, each extract I’ve read is so badly misjudged and inconsistent.

I think he’s been a great servant for our club, but never a great player – just a decent one. But judging by his performances this season I think his time should be up for us now. He was practically immobile against a very average Burnely side.

He was also woeful in the 2009 FA Cup final, but not as bad as Hibbert who was hauled off at the interval with sunburn...

Kevin Rowlands
137 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:06:53
Not an Osman hater, I actually think he’s a very good footballer and a fine servant for Everton, but, forget about Moyes, to kind of put Neville as more important than Cahill? No fucking chance!
Danny Broderick
138 Posted 29/10/2014 at 23:02:01
Incredible how many people react to Leon Osman’s opinion of one incident. He’s hardly had a right go at Cahill. He’s merely put his opinion in his book that Cahill should have passed up the opportunity to come out after Moyes and Neville.

Do we really need to get wound up about that? It’s just an honest observation in his autobiography. Apparently there are countless other positive references to Cahill throughout. Surely we want footballers to be honest? Or would any of the dissenters prefer a bland book of nothing quotes like Beckham’s World, Beckham’s Story etc?

Tony Abrahams
139 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:08:58
Osman is a good footballer, but this might not make you a very effective player in the modern game. The lad has a touch as good as anyone I have ever seen in a blue shirt, but is probably a bit to slow and a bit too weak for the physicality of the English league. Great in the air for his size, which normally points to bravery, I think the lad has had a decent Everton career.

He would not get near to either of my lists if I had to pick the best or worst 25 players I have seen in a blue shirt. He can’t be skint so I wonder why he has chose to write a book now, and I hope he was taking the piss when he says he would have had to tell Moyes who sent the texts?

James Flynn
140 Posted 29/10/2014 at 23:07:43
Ossie’s the player I bet winds up being a first-rate coach.
Micky Norman
141 Posted 29/10/2014 at 22:54:17
In 50 years of following Everton, I’ve noticed it’s always the likes of Osman and Hibbo who get the flack from supporters. This happens inside the ground and in print.

The guys who lived the Evertonian’s dream of playing for the team you loved from boyhood till adulthood. The local boys who cost nothing, who play more games than the flash buys who stay a year or two then bugger off for a payday somewhere else – and there have been lots like them through the years.

No wonder Rooney pissed off. Ross Barkley will be next on the production line of bile. Osman has his faults but so does Mirallas, Pienaar, and so did Tim Cahill. They’re human. Lucky bastards who got to wear the blue shirt of the club we love.

Paul Holmes
142 Posted 29/10/2014 at 23:09:28
The turn out for OsmanÂ’s testimonial by the fans (a picture paints a thousand words) sums up how highly we donÂ’t rate this Championship player.

If Big Dunc or maybe Tim Cahill wrote the book then maybe itÂ’s worth reading, but Leon Osman? Give us a break. Pienaar might write the next one, FFS!

Peter Gorman
143 Posted 29/10/2014 at 23:50:17
Sure on a forum we all have to read opinions we don’t agree with but some of the dogs abuse written about Osman is making me really irritated.

I genuinely can’t fathom how anyone can claim to have been an avid follower of Everton for the last x number of years (when Osman played) and still maintain in all seriousness that he is a shite player who cost us points and contributed nothing. Impossible, you can’t have been following Everton all that closely and come up with such a load of bollocks.

Osman was a key player for us for many years alongside the more celebrated Cahill and Arteta. He played his fair part in us achieving consecutive finishes in the top of the table. Go and watch the season reviews again if you doubt that.

Also, some of the ’analysis’ of his shortcomings is just risible. Weak shot? No strength? Fuck off. For every example given there are so many more to disprove it. What a laughable bunch of blow-hards we fans are.

Sickened, saddened and off to bed.

Andy Crooks
144 Posted 30/10/2014 at 00:17:48
Leon Osman, in the Europa League, scored one of the best goals I have ever seen at Goodison Park.

He tries; people who know much more than me respect his ability, he has played out of position on countless occasions, he has never complained.

He has earned a bloody good living with limited ability and has made the best of what he’s got. If you want to resent footballers, which I just don’t get, then there’s worse than Leon.

Darren Hind
146 Posted 30/10/2014 at 06:27:27
Mike Allison #135 Stand out post of the entire thread.

The desire to single out Ossie couldnt be better illustrated than by the repeated references to a cup final played 5 years ago.

These people need to go back and watch that game again. If only to remind themselves that the whole team were garbarge on the day. Our midfield ( which included "legend" Cahill ) surrendered the center of the park so meekly that Chelsea spent long periods of the game enjoying almost total possession.

but Hey, lets point the finger at the guy who was played out of position against what, at the time, was probably the best
and most powerful left side in the world.

The last gasp equaliser against Totenham, The flying header at the Emirates, The goals against City and the Shite . . .all these things spring immediately to my mind whenever Ossie is mentioned. Those who didnt see the great goals and assists down the years have only got themselves to
blame.
Its your own fault for not watching

Brent Stephens
148 Posted 30/10/2014 at 06:59:48
So, very delighted at the support for Osman on here. No nasty side to him!
Michael Evans
150 Posted 30/10/2014 at 07:38:23
Mike Allison #135 Very well put and totally agree with your comments.

Osman will not be recognised as a Goodison Legend.

However, the vitriolic comments are not justified.

Ken Buckley
151 Posted 30/10/2014 at 08:22:48
I will always remember Ossie as a player who divided opinion.

I always smile at hearing a group of fans near my seat. When Ossie plays they say he is ’Shite’ . When he doesn’t play they say we ’Miss’ him!

Crazy eh.

Ray Robinson
152 Posted 30/10/2014 at 08:33:24
Congratulations Mike @135 for a great post. For me, Ossie is a frustrating player but I can’t question his honesty and footballing brain, which is up there with the best. If only he’d been built like Ross Barkley!

Some fans just need a scapegoat, I guess. Distin seems to be another. He’s been "too old" for the last 5 years, according to some.

Jamie Yates
154 Posted 30/10/2014 at 09:01:32
We’ve had far worse players than Osman over the years and indeed several technically/physically far more gifted footballers who went on to contribute far less than Leon has managed in spite of his limitations. A great attitude, neat technique and eye for a goal are the positives for which I will remember Ossie in years to come on. That Larissa goal was something else.

And no offence #142, but with a name like Paul Holmes I’d suggest you’d do well to keep off threads criticising Everton first team footballers. ;-)

Brian Waring
155 Posted 30/10/2014 at 09:31:51
I don’t know why, but one thing that surprised me, is how far Osman was/is up Moyes’s arse.
Gavin McGarvey
157 Posted 30/10/2014 at 09:58:01
Brian @155,

In some ways, it is surprising; in some ways... not.

Moyes was the one who gave him his big break at Everton after all. Also, he sent him on loan to Derby to get him ready. In hindsight, perhaps Moyes deserves some credit for this; after all, youngsters like Tony Grant never seemed to make the step up at Everton, and if you choose to look at it like that, then Moyes put a fair bit of effort into bringing Leon through. Obviously that’s not something a lot of fans on here appreciate, as they’d rather he hadn’t bothered.

On the other hand, he just never seemed to play him in his correct position. He always had to fill in for someone else. Another possible explanation for his admiration for Moyes other than giving him his job could be the Stockholm syndrome. After all, how long did Moyes keep him trapped and ineffectual out there on the right wing whilst his career passed him by?

As for his longevity, most likely what DM and RM both loved about him as a player: he was all about the team (an Evertonian after all), and so would do whatever was needed. Als,o he’s not a hard tackling Pembridge/Gemmil type, and has a bit more skill than that.

Sometimes I wonder if his detractors remember the midfield we had for Smith and at the start of DM’s time. Kilbane was our silky playmaker for God’s sake. I think both RM and DM wanted to move our team’s play into a more progressive direction; Osman and players like him were key to this.

The thing that surprises me is the timing of this book. It’s a strange time in his career to bring out an autobiography, as he’s still playing, but from the publishers point of view it’s perfect. Obviously I won’t go so far as to buy it, but if someone bought it for me I wouldn’t be unhappy.

John Hughes
158 Posted 30/10/2014 at 10:15:39
Tommy Campbell – spot on. I went to the game with some Villa associates that day on a "jolly" and seem to recall that Milan Baros did the main damage – he scored two I think and laid one on in a 4-0 win. Some jolly that was!
Ray Roche
159 Posted 30/10/2014 at 10:49:08
Brian @155

"...but one thing that surprised me, is how far Osman was/is up Moyes’s arse."

Brian, he could see Phil Neville’s feet.

Andrew Hawes
160 Posted 30/10/2014 at 10:44:40
Osman is the solid pro that every team needs. Obviously a member of the dressing room that gives Everton itÂ’s unique spirit.

As in any workplace, you see the other side of people on a day-to-day basis

Cahill? Point taken – he is a god at Everton, twice the player of Osman. But all he did was point out Cahill obviously had an ego! Name me a Premier League player that doesn’t??

Trevor Lynes
161 Posted 30/10/2014 at 10:51:05
Arteta had a relatively short time at Goodison and he returned half the player he was following his long-term injury. Pienaar covered for him brilliantly in his absence.

Osman has had plenty of good days playing for Everton and his fair share of poor days too. Cahill, who is lauded by many fans, had his fair share of poor days too but was forgiven for his faults as he was an extrovert. Gravesen was really over-rated IMO and played his full part in a really poor Everton side at that time.

I hate berating individual players as the game is a team game. Whenever we lose a match, certain players who include Hibbert, Osman, Distin and Lukaku seem to carry the whole blame. In those games, I have seen McCarthy, Barry, Coleman, Barkley and the new darling Stones have just as poor games but escape the ’treatment’.

Fans are mainly similar to myself luckily and don’t pen vitriol in public forums. Some of what has been written on this particular subject are almost slanderous and I am disgusted that a player who has spent his whole footballing life with us is being pilloried by probably couch potato’s who have never played the game at any level.

I can watch a match even against Liverpool and admit that they have deserved to win games but some fans cannot take defeat without spitting and snarling.

Kevin Gillen
162 Posted 30/10/2014 at 11:06:38
Osman is a great player. My memory of him will be his fantastic touch, playing with his head up, loyalty to the club and the team and two great goals at Fulham to give us our first win there in ages.
Kevin Tully
163 Posted 30/10/2014 at 11:14:43
Just touching on the loyalty aspect, if no other team has offered Leon better terms, or a longer contract, he clearly would have stayed at Everton as long as he has anyway. He did say publicly that he was more or less guaranteed to start when OFM was picking the side. Obviously, I don’t know if Man City offered him double his wage to move, as they did with Lescott!

I know for a fact Heitinga didn’t want to move, even when he couldn’t get a game, because of the wages he was picking up at Everton – no other team was offering close to what he was earning whilst he was with us.

It may not have been a case of undivided loyalty, just the fact Everton was the best club regarding wages and playing time he could ever wish for! That’s not slating the lad in any way – he was a decent 6/10 player most weeks.

Tom Bowers
164 Posted 30/10/2014 at 10:58:18
I was never a big fan of Ossie even in his early days when he could run a little but he has been little or no use over the last few years. God only knows what Moyes saw in him to start him in so many games – especially when the the team fared poorly – which was most of the time. Martinez even now seems unable to see what little worth he is.

I watched James Milner a lot and he would have been a better option to bring in. His strength on the ball is amazing, something Ossie never has had.

The comparison to many of the other poor players Everton had over the years is that they didn’t last long and were turfed out or bought by another team but it appears no other team wanted Osman. The weaknesses in midfield have largely been Everton’s undoing over the last 10 years.

I am not remotely interested in Ossie’s memoirs.

Brian Wilkinson
165 Posted 30/10/2014 at 12:20:58
This is a little like the blame it on the Barrett scenario with Osman, plenty of Sunderland Boxing Day and the 2009 FA Cup game mention, but equalizer against the reds, other countless great goals heÂ’s scored during his career and a very important winner against Macclesfield which eventually took us all the way to lifting the cup in 1995 conveniently airbrushed out.

We know his legs no longer have 90 minutes in them; yes, he makes mistakes but so does every other player.

People sing from the treetops about Duncan Ferguson, scored some great goals, very talented footballer but, just like Osman, how many times did Ferguson have an average game? No doubting he did it against the big guns, but how many times did he let his team mates down with his sending offs, his suspensions, his injuries, his average games – yet he’s a legend.

It was agony seeing Neville Southall go from world class to average in his latter years but thatÂ’s life; Osman has been a great servant to the club but just doesnÂ’t have the legs and itÂ’s showed over the past few seasons.

But I still think Osman has one final chapter yet to come... and it will come: one performance, something special and a goal that will come in a big game – mark my word on that.

Patrick Murphy
166 Posted 30/10/2014 at 13:00:06
Bloody Hell, Brian — I hadn’t realised that Ossie had scored that goal against Macclesfield Town in 1995!!!

He actually scored it on the way to the 2009 final. But I understand where you are coming from. There always has to be a scapegoat for some people and unfortunately for Ossie he has been the popular choice for that role.

Tony J Williams
167 Posted 30/10/2014 at 17:14:21
Ahhh the free scoring James Milner in a team that has scored 350+ goals since he has been there.....he has scored 8.
Paul Holmes
168 Posted 30/10/2014 at 17:20:47
Jamie Yates 154, no offence but I have to defend myself here: Paul Holmes, what has that got to do with Everton footballers? IÂ’m only 48, is it EFC before the big bang or after? IÂ’ve watched my team since I was a kid, is their something I missed?
Brian Wilkinson
169 Posted 30/10/2014 at 18:20:19
Old grey cells there, Patrick, or blonde moment: it was 2009 but good to know you know where I am coming from. :-)

Deffo the whipping boy, Ossie, but Ferguson is untouchable by some and he had more average games then great games but still regarded as the messiah by some.

If only some Blues got behind Ossie instead of barracking the guy who knows, we all know his better days are over but hes still that one who can come off the bench and pop up with a goal.

Ste Traverse
170 Posted 30/10/2014 at 19:50:41
Trevor Lynes #162

Arteta "had a relatively short time at Goodison".

I wouldnÂ’t call January 2005 to August 2011 a Â’relatively short timeÂ’.

Michael Kenrick
171 Posted 30/10/2014 at 20:23:29
Paul Holmes @169....

Maybe you did miss something...

And that would be...

Paul Holmes, Everton Footballer 1993-96

Date of birth: 18 February 1968 (Age 46) — Almost the same age... are you sure you're not he?

Mike Allison
172 Posted 30/10/2014 at 21:08:56
Almost anyone could be forgiven for forgetting about Paul Holmes Paul, except you. You should have remembered him.

I remember him mostly because he played alongside Dave Watson.

Gerry Quinn
173 Posted 30/10/2014 at 22:27:58
http://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2014/10/30/7134161/Everton-tim-howard-book-USMNT

Now Tim Howard has a book coming out...

...I wonder if that will be as hesitant as him!

Kieran Riding
174 Posted 30/10/2014 at 22:32:37
Gerry, is it true there is a chapter called "I've scored more goals for Everton than Kone"?
Colin Glassar
175 Posted 30/10/2014 at 22:48:38
No Kieran, it's actually called "I can crawl faster than Kone".
Paul Holmes
176 Posted 30/10/2014 at 22:46:56
Well, I have to eat humble pie... I never knew Paul Holmes played for us.

Going back to Osman, my heart misses a beat every time Osman, Pienaar and Hibbert start, but that’s just my opinion. Would they get in a top Championship team? Maybe... but Everton? Never (my opinion).

Kieran Riding
177 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:00:25
Colin, I hope Tim wrote it all himself and the publisher just printed it without knowing about his Tourette's!

Fuck's sake Hibbert, fuck off Osman, Royston fucking Drenthe?

It would make it an essential purchase this Xmas.

Gerry Quinn
178 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:23:32
You're a bad, bad boy, Keiran. :)
Gerry Quinn
179 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:25:28
Books coming out...
Hibbo!
Gerry Quinn
180 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:26:45
Oops... wait one...
Kieran Riding
181 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:29:19
Tony Hibbert: "I'm a boss tackler "

Get it? Fishing... ? Tackle?

FFS, I'll get me coat.

Kieran Riding
182 Posted 30/10/2014 at 23:42:48
I see Roy Keane ( a recent book writer ) is now reported to be going on I'm a celeb, Get me out of here in the next few weeks.
Colin Grierson
183 Posted 31/10/2014 at 13:15:16
Roy Keane couldn't take Eire's facilities at the World Cup so I can't see him being too happy in the jungle. It would make it interesting to see how he interacts with the other half wit has beens. If he is going in, he should've kept his beard.
Andrew Ellams
184 Posted 31/10/2014 at 13:37:23
Paul Holmes, if you did miss him, he wasnÂ’t worth seeing anyway...

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