Solid opposition from Genk in latest run-out

Team for today.

They will play 4-3-3 perhaps?

Schneiderlin has been great. Gana still not able to get in that key pass in the final third.

It's looking like a good workout for our boys.

He had a couple of stuttering moments, but I really like how Kieran Dowell is playing this pre-season.

I said during the Twente game he could be playing himself into the starting XI. His quick feet and ability to either get off a shot or put a telling pass in around the penalty area will be impressing Koeman, I'm sure.

Of the new signings, Klaassen looks the least impressive to me thus far. Maybe not yet up to speed, but he does get caught on the ball a fair bit.

I'm in Australia and this is working tops!

Klaassen is also an intelligent player who finds space and moves the ball quickly. He puts his foot in too, which is good to see.

Rooney looked off the pace and sloppy but got slowly better as the half went on.

Interesting times for sure for Evertonians.

Sandro was the only one up front doing the pressing in the first half, hence he looked different to all other players who were uninterested to do that. Truly impressed by him to do that in a pre-season game.

Sandro, Rooney, Klaassen, & Idrissa all showing brains. We lack a focal point. Absolutely need a target man style centre forward.

Dowell showed some clever touches, bollard-like going the other way. I'd say he might be worth keeping in the first-team squad.

Keane looks the most settled. A very uncomplicated and neat player. A good purchase.

Width was an issue, the full-backs no were near the right end of the pitch. Definitely a concern.

But we have a decent sized squad with reasonable quality to pick from.

Roll on Thursday.

The new players will learn more about their team mates with every game. Centre-forward in the next week after teams return from tour and we're on our way. Onwards and upwards.

Holgate played okay but is not a right-back.

We definitely need more presence up front if we are going to do anything this season.

Dowel still looking good and Sandro very impressive.

I thought defensively we did okay although I think I'd prefer Jags with Keane rather than Williams, didn't see the point of bringing Pickford off at half time, how can a goalie need a rest?

I just feel Koeman is defence first,.. offence second – is this the right way around for winning football? I don't believe so, but we'll have to wait and see.

However, Rooney looks in good fettle and Klaassen and Sandro look like quality. Gareth Barry just oozes class.

This was an okay game that Everton always had control of and I suspect if it had been a meaningful game they would have won quite easily.

All the chopping and changing interrupts the flow and it was obvious fitness was the key.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/everton-1-1-genk-wayne-10852776

Must say that was a great ball from Sandro right into his path. If he keeps that up I'll be more than happy.

Clearly Koeman has no time for Kenny and Dowell is now favoured over Davies – even if it is only for the bench.

I can't see this lot pulling up any trees so 7th again. Hopefully.

Forwards of Rooney, Sandro, Mirallas, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman is a little under-powered – but we were always going to miss Lukaku.

Perhaps it is time to move Besic on with Barkley.

Need a centre-forward, winger and left-/centre-back.

Lukaku going will probably be the making of this team. So many more players were looking to score. If we can get double figures from 4 or 5 players this season then it will be happy days.

Today's game was a good workout. There are still quite a few things to work on which is no great surprise seeing as there were 5 new players playing at the start. Pickford looked good as did Keane. Klaassen after a nervy start played some lovely passes with Rooney and looked a cut above as the game wore on.

I was surprised Sandro went off after 45 mins as he looked very lively and once he settled into the half looked threatening. I think Kenny isn't out of the picture despite not figuring today and Dowell will be there or thereabouts this season. A draw was probably about right I think given how we finished the 2nd half and we had chances as did they. Genk are no mugs.

We will probably get a couple more in this window and I can't imagine that we won't get in a centre forward but one that will actually bring others into play and not just play for himself. I am quite positive about the coming season and have seen enough in the 3 warm up games to suggest that we can play incisive football.

The goals against Twente and Genk today have been crackers. I can't understand peoples negativity so early, even before the season has started. We are actually unbeaten which is more than can be said of the previous couple of preseasons. It's as if people are just waiting for it all to tits up just so they can say "I told you so." Surely some Evertonians can't be so rotten, can they?

Locals will put it down to wind though.

I'm not sure if that something is Giroud/Benteke type figure who can make the ball stick and bring others in or a Mane/Sanchez type with great pace and energy to stretch defenses. Sandro looked like he could add something in the latter mold but we still struggled to create.

Keane, Sandro and Dowell were the highlights for me. Dowell will be a dilemma as he obviously drifts in and out a bit but the chip he played in for Rooneys early chance shows he has a vision and artistry that though others in our squad possess. He reminds me of Ozil a bit, insipid one moment and inspired the next.

Klaassen did little for me and I'm still to see Schneiderlin and Gueye work really well together.

Early days still, let's see how they do in a meaningful match next week.

We should be beating teams and not conceding. Very disappointing but it is pre-season. Fingers crossed for a settled, balanced side and an indication of a good team forming.

Being positive is realising the short comings of the team; being really positive is doing something about it.

Besic: not good enough
McCarthy: not good enough
Barkley: talented, not good enough
Barry: bit-part player due to age. I'd always have him at the club in some capacity.
Davies: very promising. Koeman needs to define his role better.
Schneiderlin: class player. Hope he's fitter now.
Gueye: excellent tackling machine (sorry Darren!).

Lots of games this season, hopefully. We might have plenty of centre mids; we need a clearout and better ones.

We desperately need some guile in there. I don't think playing two 'defensive midfielders' is an issue. The real issue is the lack of consistency in front of them. The decent transfer business so far will only be successful if we strengthen our creative dept.

Not by a long chalk, in my view, Phil.

Does anyone else think playing Dowell all of a sudden is sending Barkley an obvious message?

We're not.

Does that make a difference do you think?

The added bonus for this better squad would be cup runs.

I think Dowell would be a great option in the squad, I'll be disappointed if he is loaned. I'm not sure Kenny or Callum are quite ready and loans would do them good.

Still think Davies is great, I hope he develops at this rate over the next few years.

If they are like this over a bleedin' friendly, god only knows what they'll be like when we fail to win a Premier League game.

Their goal was from a stupid mistake, from Martina, (jury's still out on him, by the way) I doubt if he will be our regular right back, while Seamus is recovering, did anyone disgrace themselves? No!

I think when you look at the broader picture, are we ready for the season, no, but we have three weeks yet, and a Europa Cup fixture, coming up, Koeman's not daft, he knows we need a bit more fitness, and a couple of additions.

I am sure, well, sure enough, to think that these issues will be addressed, by the time the Premier League starts.

Some players never play well in friendlies and the usual crap about so and so can't play etc really does get tedious at times. For god's sake, give them all a break and can the criticism whilst they all settle in.

Pickford seemed composed in the 45 minutes he played – did everything he was called to do (which wasn't much). Thanks mostly to the back line who I thought were very good again today, but most of all Michael Keane, who in the limited playing time he's had has been head and shoulders above any of our defenders. I think he's an incredible player, a massive buy for us who will strengthen our back line for perhaps a decade to come. From what I've seen he's been absolutely excellent and a joy to watch.

I also think Williams and Holgate looked decent at the back as well, as did Baines (although I'm very worried about Leighton's) the seemingly rapid decline of Baines' sattacking ability.

Martina seems to be the opposite to Holgate – dangerous and exciting going forward (his crossing is very good), but defensively he is extremely suspect and has me very worried. Thank God he has Michael Keane next to him. Finally on the defenders, I think we still need a backup left-back, unless Connolly shows us something incredible.

I think judging by these pre season friendlies, as well as how we played in the latter half of last season, that Koeman will generally opt to deploy a midfield 3 next season, which will presumably consist of Schneiderlin at holding mid, Gueye as the ball-winner, as Klaassen as more of a box-to-box.

I think on paper that's a very classy midfield, yet I've was disappointed in all three today. They should have done a lot better. I still feel they have the quality to come through though. We have capable backup in Barry, McCarthy/Besic, and Davies.

The remaining front 3 still appears a conundrum and a selection headache for Koeman. I was impressed by Sandro today, definitely, and I also believe he's made it clear in 45 minutes today that he's a very different type of striker to Lukaku. He never, ever, stops moving. He's always making random darting runs everywhere, pulling defenders all over the place, and making penetrating runs into the channels. And that's great, we've been crying out for a striker like this.

This lad seems the real deal, even at his age (and full credit goes to Mr Steve "release clause" Walsh on this one), but I don't think he should be playing in the middle of the three. You need a Romelu style player there – a big target man who wins aerial battles and brings teammates into play. Then the likes of Sandro, Rooney, Barkley, Mirallas play off him on either flank.

This man is surely Giroud, I think if we secure his services our front 3 is complete. If you think back to how Koeman's teams played at Southampton, he would put the target man Pelle in the centre, and have the likes of Mane running off. I think we need to go for the same here – Rooney and Sandro aren't really the target men. Between them and a 'Giroud', we've got as close as we ever will to replacing Rom.

This turned into a massive wall of text; apologies. I see us lining up against Stoke like so:

Rooney (New CF) Sandro
Klaassen Gueye
Schneiderlin
Baines Williams Keane Martina

(And a final note – anyone who seriously believes Jonjoe Kenny is going to be our first choice RB next season will find themselves very disappointed.)

Come on, Phil, pre-season matches are always misleading. We will see youngsters get some time, other older pros just trying to get through the 90 minutes, fringe players will get more time than normal. Come season start, he'll settle on a very different looking team that is probably our most competitive.

Those experienced players who have been there will be named plus maybe a youngster on a roll. And with our new signings and maybe more plus kids breaking through, we are capable of picking off some of the teams above us.

I suspect out team goal tally will be higher now with them spread out, Keane and Pickford should reduce the goals against column and we are good to go. We've bought so many new players in plus the likes of Lookman coming in will give us the surprise factor.

On the positive side, it was a well taken goal by Rooney and we looked solid enough while defending. We improved towards the end of the game, when we attacked more, but their goalkeeper had little to do, as he did for most of the game.

We will probably do well at home, but I'm honestly beginning to doubt that Koeman knows what he's doing when we go forward; we lack genuine creativity, cohesion and firepower in midfield, and will struggle just as we did last season away from Goodison, unless there is more quality added.

I can see loads of goals coming from our midfield once Koeman's tactics click and we manage to add some width to our game.

Talking of which...how on earth are we still playing Holgate at right-back? And has Baines forgotten how to whip in a cross as it looks he's no longer even trying?

Very excited about some of our new signings but my first two names on the team sheet would be Davies and Dowell.

"I know – 9 defendersh, everyone back for cornersh, keep what we have.... 38 points – Bingo!!!"

On another note , does anyone else think , if Besic is being deployed as a left sided central defender, that he could be turned into a more than fair and useful left-back?
We know he can bomb on, is tenacious in the tackle, less vulnerable in the air, and can actually defend.

Just needs to work on his crossing, who knows what could happen?

I don't know why people get so het up about pre-season friendlies. They are to improve fitness levels, nothing more.

I suppose by that example they are nothing but fitness but what an example of a proper professional.

I suppose the person Giroud would replace in the first team is Lukaku. He would be in the centre of the front 3, with the likes of Rooney and Sandro playing off him to the left and right.

And Sigurdsson? I think if he comes, he is replacing Barkley who will then surely go. Now if Barkley stays and yet we sign Sigurdsson, that'd be pointless. There's only one role there (and it'd involve pushing someone, maybe Sandro out the front 3).

The one game they are preparing for above all others in this period is against MFK Ruzomberok next Thursday. Until two days ago, we didn't even know who our opposition would be.

The squad (for Everton, this early in the season) has had a huge influx of new players to bed in. Some of those were given an extended break due to their summer international commitments.

They have travelled to Tanzania, Holland and Belgium. Pretty much every player has been given decent and well-balanced game time. The multiple substitutions across all three games did not seriously impact negatively on the team performance. Nobody looks hapless and hopeless. Rather, a good many have impressed – seasoned players, young 'uns and new 'uns.

To be curmudgeonly about the team or individuals before a ball has been kicked in competitive anger is a tad premature.

There are positions I think we still need to bring in. Primary of those is a point man – an established striker who will get you goals.

Goalkeeper cover is a concern, as I anticipate Robles is leaving and Stekelenburg remains unconvincing. Connolly is impressing at left-back but, as with Kenny on the right, I fancy we need further cover there for Leighton. Unless Koeman trusts his young 'uns (and Pennington, Browning and Galloway have all gone out on season long loans), I think we need another centre back in, all the more so with Funes Mori's extended injury.

Then there is the Barkley question: is he staying or going? His groin operation certainly complicates things for all concerned. A genuine ball playing midfielder orchestrating things is, for me, the second top priority after a goal scoring forward.

Unlike some in this thread, I am happy at how this summer and pre-season is progressing.

Roll on Thursday night, I can't wait. Oh and we need four more players and then we will be ready to tackle this long season a head.

I'm reasonably happy with most things so far, most of the signings looks good (especially impressed with Keane). Would liked to have seen more of Kenny but can understand Koeman wanted to give some game time to Holgate as it's his first game without splitting up his obvious first choice center backs.

All in all, reasonably happy.

Get real, best we can do is be consistent patient and build a solid squad. Anyone thinking were going to pull a Spurs is going to be disappointed.

● Keane was excellent.
● Pickford looked good.
● Klaassen is slow – a couple of times the Gent midfield just waltzed right past him. I think this may be a problem, but on the other hand he linked well with Rooney (mind you the first time I saw Arteta play in the Premiership I thought he was well off the pace)
● Sandro impressed me – and once the team understand his runs I think he/we will cause a lot of damage
● Martina – was okay apart from gifting Genk their goal with a schoolboy heading back into the danger area.
● Rooney – has lost some pace. But he did score and certainly brings something to the team.

For the young guns, Dowell and Lookman looked dangerous but largely didn't come off for them (apart from Dowell's feed to Sandro for the goal). Dowell tracks back well. Lookman and Calvert Lewin and Holgate all look like they've beefed up over the summer.

Holgate looked elegant on the ball and I would like to see him as a centre back in place of Williams. Connolly did okay at left back. Calvert-Lewin is a year away from being effective but does the right things.

I don't think we are getting the best of Schneiderlin and Gana – Barry looked in a different league when he came on. Basic as a centre back...oh lordy – his judgement is very suspect, but I kind of like it.

He moves it quickly, he's neat and tidy. I've got a good feeling about him. He could fill that creative gap we've had since Arteta went.

Keane looked a little over-aggressive with his positioning at times. He went chasing the ball and got rolled. He has all the tools – just needs an older head alongside him this season.

Klaassen is an odd one for me. I thought he was signed for his aggression, leadership and goals from midfield, but he seemed more technical than that – still a good player, but not what I was expecting. I think he will grow as he becomes more settled.

Sandro's workrate vs Lukaku's is hilarious, but it does make you realise what a different type of player he is. My hope is that his movement will drag defenders out of position and create room for the likes of Rooney, Klaassen and Mirallas to exploit the gaps.

Niasse was impressive with Hull City. Sandro, Niasse, Rooney, Mirallas, Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Barkley...t hey should provide decent attacking options with the right combinations for the season with Lookman, Davies, and Calvert-Lewin as subs.

The only direct call I would make is that we must persist with Dowell. He will, as I have said before, be as good as Sheedy, and we must make a place for him in this team. By the time we need to be properly fit, we will be.

To paraphrase, he said that when we played with a holding midfielder he would play 'right half or left half' but at other times he would play number 10 and the team would need to be aware of this and the goal threat he could provide.

So I guess what we saw mostly yesterday was role 1, with him coming from a bit deeper and interpassing with Rooney and Gueye. He also is capable of putting himself about.

We saw the other side of him in the Twente match when a late run into the box almost brought a goal, only denied by a good save.

By implication, his role could change from match to match, depending on the set up, or within a match, depending on circumstances.

He looks an interesting player, technical, physical, intelligent and also a leader, having been captain of Ajax at 21.

I look forward to watching him and this new team develop over the weeks.

I might be wrong, but he seems to move the ball on very quickly because he already knows what he wants to do next and it's our players who are the ones who are going to have to get on his level of thought, if we are to get the best out of him?

It's going to take time, especially because I still think we are going to sign a couple more which effectively means we have got a brand new team, but the whole mentality of the club has changed, and if a squad have no bad players, as Jay Wood says, then it's definitely on the right lines.

To finish 7th maybe? according to resident doom, but if we can win a cup, then it might just be the start of better times for our loyal, passionate and desperate fanbase. I'm starting to look forward to the season already, and slow starts have never really bothered me unless I'm sitting on an aeroplane... so let's finish off the squad and let's get going!

We're in July ffs!! The lads have only been back together for a few weeks and already some of you are panicking, writing our season off already!

The new players still need time to settle in and there will be more of them coming so give them a chance will yez.

We need Bolasie back asap just to offer an alternative!

He's not what I'd call a flair player, but I suspect he'll prove a very effective one.

There's a lot of focus these days on 'pressing', which is important in the modern game. However, a footballing brain, with quick thinking and anticipation of the next move (and beyond) is vitally important, and cannot be replaced by cross-country running.

Baines appears to be a stay at home left back. Martina looked like a weak link at right back, Mirallas was not in the game, we lacked presence up front, and we lacked pace/threat on the wings.

A lot of work ahead. We don't have a goal threat and having nothing out wide until Coleman & Bolasie get back and that's half a season away. I'm just not convinced that Giroud & Sigurdsson are the answer...

It seems that unless you come on here extolling the virtues of Koeman and Walsh with the passion of a religious zealot you are portrayed as some kind of miserable cynic.

I would love to see the likes of Lookman, Dowell and Barkley (if he stays) getting some significant game time as they are players who are creative and entertain. If Klopp can manage to turn Liverpool into an attractive team to watch that employs a high press then surely Koeman can at Everton. I know it's heresy for some to say that they are better to watch than us, but they are.

I will expect the usual 'dogs abuse' for having the temerity to speak the truth from the fundamentalists on here and be told to fuck off to Anfield. I hope that Koeman can be more flexible in his strategy and value and find room for creativity and flair as well as energy and endeavour. Can he? That's a question I'm hoping we get a positive answer to over the course of a whole season.

Neither Martinez or Moyes had the adaptability to change their strategy when required and up to now Koeman seems equally if not more dogmatic.

I'm not professing a gung-ho approach to every game; I do however expect to see to see a more entertaining brand of football.

Now, about this ticket? :-)

Difficult to draw any conclusions about the second half given the amount of changes, but the first showed a fitter, harder working side, solid in defence, but lacking some guile and width. As others had noted, the return of Bolasie and Coleman will solve the latter, but we need to buy the former. Time to deliver on Sigurdsson or move on?

Seriously, you're right, they were more entertaining than us last season, but that wasn't too difficult. I don't think they're particularly better, and for me our home form was an indicator of what we can do. We just need to be more adventurous away from home.

But like you, I'm not convinced that Koeman is adaptable enough to achieve that. But I hope I'm being pessimistic.

None of them have interested the Top Six and with Lukaku gone, goals will be a rarity. Given Pickford and Keane will improve the defence, midfield looks likely to be 'a bugger's muddle' and it will be to Barry, Koeman turns to sort it out. Nothing wrong with that but hardly indicative of progress, is it?

Anyway, Thursday may tell us more but my fear is – as Spurs discovered – quantity never brings success. So, in short, I'm looking for seventh because this is what the quality of our roster indicates – however much we may hope for more.

It is too early to judge this group, but the signs are encouraging and with a proper big man up top, we will cause more problems.

Never happy us blues. 20 years of penny pinching and when we do spend we still aren't happy!

Is our squad better than last year? Yes! Do we need a decent centre forward still? Yes – but please let's remain positive until at least 6 games in!

So as Tony asks above, let's reserve judgement until after game 6. But then it will be game 12 and after that will be where we are at Xmas that counts. !

This is a forum for discussion on all things Everton – not a talking shop for only those who feel a need to be optimistic whatever the evidence !

"There is no pessimism about me predicting"
- "seventh place finish"
- "these signings will trouble 'the big boys'?"
- "Lukaku gone, goals will be a rarity"
- "midfield looks likely to be 'a bugger's muddle' "
- "hardly indicative of progress, is it ?"
- " in short, I'm looking for seventh because this is what the quality of our roster indicates – however much we may hope for more."

You're absolutely right, you're a ray of sunshine as always. You're household must be the light of where all happiness stems from!

With the optimism Koeman has instilled in the fans, you can't get a season ticket for love nor money. 8,000 in the queue I believe.

Guarantees my seat in the new stadium? No can do – sorry, pal.

We've been generally very good in pre season so far – unbeaten and we've scored some great goals, despite the loss of our top goal scorer and imo, most essential player.

There is work to be done in the market still – we need another striker, a Ross replacement if he goes, and another defender. But lamenting us because of one pre season performance is utterly absurd.

The table at Xmas and our progress in the Europa League and League Cup will indicate some things. As I've stated, I don't expect major league improvement. We are still some way off the top clubs although Liverpool and arsenal are not so far way. We need to improve our away form and make inroads in the cups.

We are well set for a Europa League run, and we are building a squad big enough to compete in other tournaments. We need to finish the transfer market how we've started it but add that little extra quality.

Also, expect Rooney, even at 31, to look a class above this season. He will illustrate the gap between our attacking players and the competition.

Hopefully we improve as a team. Entertain a bit more (though I'd settle for 38 1-0 wins), find a few new avenues for goals, and give the cups a good crack.

We finished 7th and a long way behind 6th and upwards so we have a lot of improving and strengthening to do relatively, to overtake them.

What can we tell about the top 6 so far? Well, Chelsea and Man City are spending like drunken sailors and show no signs of slowing down, and as they were far better than us to start with, they will probably finish ahead of us, if their signings work out. And everyone else too possibly. Man City in particular seem to be in transition.

Spurs have signed nobody but have sold a full back and are said to be interested in getting Barkley for a pittance. They have a stadium to pay for and have to play at Wembley next season, where they have not exactly excelled. If they don't recruit, they might be vulnerable, especially as they have Europe to deal with.

Our neighbours seem obsessed with buying expensive wingers, but have just bought a decent left back, but not a game changer. Their defence was poor last season, and if they leave it as is, they also might be vulnerable.

Manchester United scored less than we did last season and their top scorer is not there any more. He has been replaced by some bloke who divides opinion but who will undoubtedly score goals. Whether enough goals will be scored, remains to be seen. Not sure about them.

Arsenal are another team under pressure and scrutiny from their fans. They may still lose two of their best players, and so far it is not clear whether they have sorted themselves out from last season. Wenger will want to prove he is part of the solution and not the problem but they look vulnerable.

So where does that leave us?

As it stands, the target for us is positions 3-6, assuming Chelsea and Man City might be too strong.

Can we overtake Arsenal? Possibly as it stands.

Can we overtake one other team? Possibly one from the other teams mentioned.

Any higher? I'd be delighted and surprised but perhaps not this season.

5th an acceptable performance? Maybe with a cup. But would be looking for better the following year.

It's all a game basically, conjecture and guesswork and we haven't got all the final teams yet. But it makes no sense to draw any conclusions, positive or negative, from performances in three pre-season friendlies

So who knows? Relax, enjoy, and let life unfold.

We've brought well but some of the players are younger and will need time. We also have an issue that the others don't – we've sold our most effective player. That will be a blow, and it will improve an Ibra-less Man Utd, who have also added a much superior centre-back.

Realistically, we will come 7th with the additional pressures of Europa to contend with. Perhaps we could catch Liverpool and Arsenal.

Sure there are new faces which should add to the competitiveness but what will the finished product be like?
Some sloppy passing out of defence yesterday and Besic looked like a crazy man when he came on for his stint. Rooney showed he still has that magical scoring touch but I hope he isn't used as the second striker.

Lots of conundrums for debate and maybe after the Europa League game and the Seville game, we will all be in a better position to see what Koeman is trying to achieve.

We are not going to win the league, do the double, or get relegated this season. A sign of real progress would be a serious challenge to make the top 4 and to get to the latter stages of all 3 cup competitions (winning one of them would be even better).

For the first time in decades, we can see some light at the end of the tunnel but this is a work in progress and it might be frustrating at times but it's also bloody exciting imo.

Thankfully it is a forum for all of us.

Have we done enough? No and I hope we'll all be surprised with some fine signings, but then so will the other teams probably. They may lose some too.

Nobody knows where we will finish, and we have issues, but then so do the teams above us.

Will we finish 7th or above? Hopefully.

Higher than 5th? Nah.

A cup win hopefully?

Would that be progress? Yes.

Realistic? Maybe.

But to draw concrete conclusions from 3 pre-season games is a nonsense.

Whereas with both teams, more especially yesterday, any fouls, and there were a few, went unpunished, by Genk!

We picked up I think three yellows, to their none; I am not sure if cards in a friendly, have any bearing back home, or in the Europa Cup. Maybe someone can enlighten us on that one!

How will we ever get along?

As far as expectations go, we've got a manager who is being paid a fortune, players being paid top 4 type wages, and we will probably spend upwards of 𧵎m in the transfer market. For those reasons, I fully expect us to be challenging for a Champions League spot and to go all-out at the likes of Anfield and match these 'bogey teams.'

If we can't expect success this season, then when can we? Maybe if some of these bottle jobs we have playing for us knew that some of these recent performances were not acceptable, then they would try a little harder?

As fans, it's partly up to us to set the expectations of these millionaire footballers. If they think 6th is good enough, then what chance is there of Champions League football at Goodison?

"These teams were all better than us last season and have all, bar Spurs, improved"

Thing is, Jim, we've improved as well and, if we can get our results against these teams to improve, we can stir the mix up a bit. If we can manage a couple of wins away from home against Man City, Man Utd etc, and continue our decent home form from last season, we can surprise a few people. Many of the current crop do not have the inferiority complex that has permeated throughout the club so won't be bricking it at the prospect of a trip to Anfield.

I'm cautiously optimistic, especially if Koeman brings in the two players he's mentioned in the press.

Didn't we lose all our pre-season friendlies the season we finished 4th?

Also, currently Everton have the best U23s set up in the league with quite a few having the quality to break through this season. Why not aim for Champions League? I'm pretty sure that Moshiri is aiming high with Everton; and, there can be no doubt that his short time as Everton's majority shareholder has made an enormous difference. COYB.

But I do think how well we do this season depends on our next few signings. It's been reported that we need two more, but I honestly think it's a minimum of four – more likely six, which is not going to happen.

In order of priority:

1. Top striker or two
2. Left-sided centre-half
3. Speedy winger, left side
4. Sigurdsson
5. Another left-back/left-wingback

This season we are already fit and strength in depth has been transformed. I am confident we will not miss Lukaku too much so the main test compared with last year will be European matches in midweek, though of course there will be a settling in period needed for all those new players too.

We aren't that far away from a Champions League place in first team quality but further strengthening over the next few years will be important to consolidate.

Overall: 6/7th and a good Europa League run will be success this year with a decent chance of better. Oh, and of course – spades in the ground at the docks.

I really can't see us getting turned over badly by any team and I think with the addition of Sigurdsson and a top class centre-forward, we will be as close to the top teams as we can going into this season.

Top 4 will be a big ask but we are certainly geared up for it.

Bottlers have all gone, hopefully, and a team of leaders all over the park will drive better performances and not tolerate some of the faint-hearted displays we've witnessed at the likes of Anfield for far too long.

The next couple of signings will be by far the most important IMO and I hope one is an out-and-out striker/goal-scorer. Has to be, surely?

Building the team up to knock it down seems to be the game. The more realistic of us will settle for last season's seventh!

He has brought in a different type of players to obviously play a different style of football. Last season, we had to rely on one man to score, and when his form dipped or he didn't play, we were knackered.

By the look of the players brought in, it seems he's looking at goals from all over the pitch. Lukaku this season will be a marked man and it will be interesting to see how he handles it.

Maybe Chelsea and Man City, to name two, are spending mega amounts on players but that doesn't always work out in every case, and some are mega flops.

What I look back on last season, is the amount of points we threw away in games in either turning a narrow margin of a potential win, by mistakes, and either drawing or losing in some cases.

I think with the better personnel, several leaders with a winning mentality, we will eliminate those costly errors.

I said at the outset if we progress, under Koeman, by half as much as the preceding season, during his three-year tenure, then that'll be great.

● First season: four-place improvement.
● Second season: two-place improvement.
● Third season: one-place improvement.

That, to me, represents a realistic goal.

Do you think it's all about the amount you spend on players or the reputation of them? Because its not its about bringing in the right players to suit the system you want to play.

You only have to look at the decline of Barcelona or the Spanish national team to see that filling a team full of superstars who won't press or do the donkey work soon get sussed out.

The Germans have now overtook Spain nationally and on paper there players are nowhere near as flash, but hell don't they play and work for each other. Just go back 12 months to Portugal – one massive name in Ronaldo and 9 players around him who worked like hell.

Another good example I've made before is why have Chelsea just sold an outstanding young talent to Watford for £5m only to bring in the same type of player from Monaco who's the same age for £40m – it's crazy – and is he guaranteed to be a success?

They may have to settle for a similar position in the Premier League unless what they have now can get into an immediate winning frame of mind and be very difficult to beat which will get the respect of the other clubs.

Being sound defensively is the main key and building around Keane is a good start. They need to press hard from midfield to force other teams into errors, something lacking in recent seasons.

Sure it would have been nice to have the presence of Bolasie up front but, without him, it would appear initially that Everton do not have the firepower to sustain a top four push. I did think that they would have gone for Josh King but that interest if ever there was seems to have waned.

We can remain ever optimistic however as Everton have as good a young group of players as anyone which is maturing fast and may just surprise us this season.

We have improved across the pitch with the additions of Keane, Klaassen, Rooney, Sandro. Pickford I think we will have to wait and see how good he really will be this season, but hopefully an improvement. If we add Sigurdsson as well, that further improves our team.

But we also lost Lukaku which will be felt. We still haven't added that top class striker. Other sides like Man Utd and Man City are spending and improving their sides, as is Chelsea now.

We haven't overtaken those clubs on paper, but we've improved. We still need to strengthen up top in my opinion, but we should be much more competitive at the top of the table. As always, a lot will depend on which clubs above us might struggle this season.

But I don't think we're fighting to finish above Man Utd, like last season. I think they will be genuine contenders this season. Instead, I feel like Arsenal might struggle for consistency again and that any adversity will severely challenge them given the continuous chatter around their best players and Wenger. If Coutinho goes to Barca I could see Liverpool struggle a bit.

But nobody really knows. All that is certain in my view is that we have added quality from last season's squad. But we need some breakthrough from one of our younger players like Lookman, to have a Raheem Sterling type jump in performances, and a big-time addition up top. We should be firmly in competition with those six that finished above us and firmly ahead of those that finished below us last season.

It will be interesting to see how we do going into the New Year when Coleman and Bolasie are expected to make their returns to the squad.

Are we forgetting that (1) we have a improved team; (2) Arsenal have brought in an unproven player and seem certain to lose Sanchez; (3) Spurs are playing a whole season at Wembley where they can't win for shit; and (4) Liverpool won't have as good a season as last for a while – especially if their top signing is a Chelsea reject.

So, all-in-all, there is plenty of opportunity for us to improve our position this season.

I didn't see the game lad, but I reckon we was shit!
I had to wash me hair last night and go out for a bit,
but the one lad isn't worth his pay, the other is a brick;
by that I mean he doesn't move and he's dead fukin' thick.

I read bits of the match report, the first two lines, before
I had to go out shoppin' (‘cos just now they'll close the store),
but the one twat with the funny hair, I forget his stupid name,
shouldn't pull the shirt on – ‘e should never get a game.

Me old man's uncle's plumber mate said he heard it from some git,
that our inside-right or centre-half or ‘keeper isn't fit
and it's all down to the coaching staff, the manager and board:
the lot should do the right thing and each fall on his sword.

Our team will never get nowhere. Dem owners are arse holes!
We need to win, week-out week-in, by 20-thousand goals.
And if it wasn't 'cos I've got to work all day at some daft job,
I'd run our team like clockwork, and make a fair old bob.

Fans are making honest assessments on the state of the team at the moment.

Odds for us now, for what it's worth, are 9/1 top 4 and 2/1 for top 6.

We may not be buying household names for exorbitant fees but you are ignoring the Koeman factor and the return of dressing room harmony.

As we saw under Moyes, a team playing as a team regularly got the better of a team of "star" individuals like Man City were then.

None of us are clairvoyant and luck and officials play a part in results too but, as I said, with the addition of Sigurdsson and a quality Lukaku replacement, I think we are in with a fighters chance.

Did anyone foresee Martinez first season almost got fourth (yes I still ponder how that happened) or Leicester winning the damn league.

Anything is possible with the right belief and confidence.

We as fans should be thinking like the RS that we expect to win things.

Dare to dream... it might do you some good.

Recent developments are encouraging, but not exciting as yet. To get excited, we'll have to see how we perform in anger in real competition.

Last season's stats were as good as ever - 19 goals in all competitions... but crucially only one in Europe? Perhaps that's what determines visibility...

And didn't he sign a 5-year contract, I vaguely recall... Not that that should be a real impediment if someone really wanted him – especially with the astronomic inflation in fees!

I remember an Everton team that had little or no star names. They made virtue of the fact that they worked like dervishes off the ball and liked to play in the other team's half. That gave space for the more skilful players to do their stuff. I believe these days it's called 'pressing'.

It was a fairly inexpensive team. Two young players cost 𧽴 & 800k (lot of money in those days). The rest were a mix of local lads, cheap buys and players who 'weren't good enough for the teams above us'.

That team had a fabulous, cussed, winner's mindset. Of course most of them could play a bit, a lot in some cases, but that team had no stars, no standout flair players as such, but they were very, very effective. And they could mix it with the hardest of them. Fans of other teams told me they knew how that team would play, but it was hard to do anything about it.

Now I know football has changed, that there are teams that can and will outspend us, that we're behind some teams in terms of development, but let's see what this team and the inevitable additions can do.

I'm not asking you to compare our current team to that great side of 1985. I'm asking you to compare them to the side we had in 1983-84 before it had a chance to build up a head of steam.

Optimism is a good state of mind when backed up with evidence. What I've seen of the players we have recently bought is more of that winner's mentality. Will they be good enough? Will Koeman trust them to let them off the leash? Who knows?

Either way, let's give them a chance. If you can't be optimistic right now, when can you be?

Balance. He has addressed many areas of weakness, the spine and general depth.

The buys are not top six because we don't have the reputation yet. But we have improved the standard of the squad.

Many believe a serious challenge for higher is unlikely. But at some point we need to over achieve to get in the group above us.

It all comes down to Koeman. My reticence comes down to how attacking he wants to be. I've seen signs in the friendlies of Everton playing higher up the pitch. Encouraging. If he persists with tactics from last season, then my patience will wear thin rapidly.

I can deal with losing a few in search of a win. Everton simply draw too many games. That has to change.

Truth is, I just don't see Koeman as much of an advance on Moyes in the player motivation and inspiration stakes so all those 'ordinary 'players you speak of will prove to be just that. Ordinary.

I've placed money on a seventh place finish so I'm a long way from forecasting failure. Seventh is what Everton is all about. Anything higher and I'll share your excitement.

As for Yarmolenko, I'll add him to my blacklist which includes Sissoko, Ghalil(?), Fernandes, Barmby, Arnautovic, Shaquiri, Gosling, Radzinski, McMahon, David Johnston, Byram, The Kyles, Riquelme etc . Anyone who has ever turned us down or bad mouthed us. My memory is long and unforgiving.

I will take seventh if we win a cup, or seventh if I can see signs of real progress, and agree with the posters who are more interested in the team, which has got to be the most important thing, if we ever are to progress?

Back Seventh, with the FA Cup, Phil! Brings back great memories of when The Rat went up to lift the FA Cup, and we was there!!!

Yes, goals are goals but he was a Chelsea reject when he joined us, he is a Made In Everton product. Whereas the likes of Klaassen and Sandro have already proved themselves at Ajax and Malaga, who were very important for them. So we have proven quality players in them, it is just a matter of time for them to get used to playing in a different team.

My only disappointment is Koeman not giving a chance to Niasse. I feel he has a future with us if he is given an opportunity.

I assume Sigurdsson is one and he will add neither pace nor power. I hope the other signing is someone special to give us serious attacking threat.

A negative view for sure but a very realistic one. We could finish below 7th if Koeman and staff can't gel them into a good squad. As you say, none of our buys are exceptional and depth is no guarantee of success.

Moyes had 11 years... Koeman has had 11 months – give him a chance.

But we need two fast movers on the wings and one in the middle. Sigurdsson is another cart horse when it comes to pace.

Moyes had 11 years on a shoe string, Koeman has had 1 year and spent more than any Everton manager.

His tenure will be measured in hard terms and rightly so. He's had one year to transition and needs to show we can compete this year whilst offering more attractive football.

The bar is high for reason; otherwise, it's just the same mediocrity we've suffered for years.

But I have to ask you: What do you get out of being an Evertonian and a long standing one at that? Surely you must have moments of hope and times when you get excited – even dreams of us getting back to the top of the pile?

In Martinez's first season I was overjoyed to see us play that Sin Miedo football. Sure, I got brought back down to earth with a Big Bang the following season but it was wonderful while it lasted. That game at the Emirates when we played Arsenal off the park will always remain in my memory.

The following two seasons were terrible – I really thought we were going down on a couple of occasions but fortunately for us Moshiri bought into the club and started fixing things. I am again full of hope for the future.

I too think Koeman is a bit dour but I have to give him credit for what he achieved last season in steadying the ship – he even got us expecting to win games at Goodison again! He also seems to have a pragmatic approach – there appears to be no room for sentiment with him. Perhaps that is what we need.

Having said all that I am a fan – a daft one maybe -– but as such I have a license to expect and hope for the best. You quite rightly point out that Koeman has had miles more money to spend than any other Everton manager. For that reason, I'll bet you our billionaire stake holder is expecting a better outcome than 7th.

As for there being six better teams than us this season – who says so? They have it all to prove again just like us.

What I am seeing is the putting together of a group of players that have the right mental attitude and level of fitness. There are some football brains in the mix also.

So my hope is that, if we do improve, it won't be by one place but that we will rattle several cages. If we sign Giroud have another bet on us finishing fourth.

Up the Blues.

There have been many clubs with high quality individuals that have never gelled as teams. We need to give the manager and players a fair crack of the whip before your pessimism rains down on them.

Don't you miss the hope you used to have 20 years ago? You may well be right about us finishing 7th – it's hard to see us going beyond that... but surely we can hope for big breakthrough?

It happened for us in 1984... it happened for Leicester... Off the pitch, the signs are as good as they have been since the 1960s...

Go on... dare to hope again.

Anthony, the bloody thing? I remember coming out of Feyenoord's stadium, in May 1985, and the song the toffees were singing still gives me shivers to this very day mate.

"Just like the team, that's gonna win the fuckin lot, we shall not be moved" – and we very nearly did mate.

I don't expect too much this season, but in all seriousness, how good is the Premier League right now?

Putting the fee aside re Sigurdsson and wondering whether he would be any good for us, who knows until you try him in the team? But I would rather be playing with him in my team than against.

As for Ross, well... I hope he works out whatever is holding his ability back and goes on to have a great career, whether with us or elsewhere. Of course, I would prefer it to be with us. There definitely is a player there .

I saw an article in one of the papers mentioning comments made by Roy Hodgson about Ross. I will find another thread to comment on those..

Sigurdsson is a decent midfielder, who is head a shoulders above the rest of the Swansea team. I guess if this is all £50mill gets you for a Number 10 and Koeman wants him, then so be it.

I remain thoroughly underwhelmed.

Admit it, that's what is missing from your life. You are jealous of us fans who still go to watch the Blues and miss the misery and joy of it all. Come back, that's what you need.

Unless of course you are just a miserable bleeder by nature, and I don't think you are.

Now if ever there was a chance to take a punt on a player that I believe will score goals anywhere, then this could be that chance. I'd be onto Celtic today offering 㿅m with a view to getting the deal done this week.

Said on here weeks ago if we offered Celtic 㿏m they'd bite our hand off (what do I know?) If there's any truth at all in them looking for 㿀m, he cost them 𧹈k remember, we should definitely be in there!!!

I think him and Sandro could run defences ragged!

I like James McCarthy, but would hope he could become a big bargaining tool for Everton, if and when Celtic decide to sell, because I would love us to sign Dembele.

Dave, stop winding Phil up. Get him a ticket for the seventh game, unless there are any matches before which are being played on the seventh. Get back to Goodison Phil, it'll be like seventh heaven!

This transfer window has been pretty "un-everton" in that we have spent well and early. Yes, we've lost a key player, but there is time and money to replace him still. In terms of expectations and what would be considered a successful season:

1 – Higher points total that last year. we shipped a few points in games that we can hopefully tighten up this year.

2 – League position? we were a fair distance clear in 7th, but also a fair gap to 6th. 7th is the obvious safe conclusion again, but I believe we have the improved quality across the pitch now and competition for places that can push us on.

Yes, the other teams have also bought players, but Spurs are at Wembley, Liverpool might lose Coutinho, Arsenal might lose Sanchez and more, so until the transfer window closes and we've seen the form in the first few games, it's anybody's guess. I'd be happy with 7th if we have closed the points gap and stayed in the hunt for 6th up until the last games, along with a decent run in a couple of cups.

Also snatching a few more points from the big six home and away. I'd love 6th or better, and think we have a shot, but we need a decent start through our opening run of tricky fixtures with a team that is fairly new to each other.

3 – Cup runs? With the improved squad depth ,it would be nice to have a good run in Europe, at least Quarters, and in one of the domestic cups. I hope Europe doesn't affect our league form too much as it will be new for some of the players.

I have a lot of optimism for the future – new owner and money, new stadium (provided it has a decent atmosphere unlike West Ham!), a manager with proven record and no nonsense approach, decent scouting and youth set up. The building blocks are all there for progress over the next few years, but that is the key bit. As they say, "Rome wasn't built in a day".

I think we can crack top 4 and be contenders again, but that won't be this season. This season will be consolidation, with Koeman having a team of his own choosing to start playing the system he prefers. Then next season with a few more additions and a few youth graduates we will hopefully kick on.

the futures bright, the futures blue!!

Personally I'm very pleased with the deal we've done. We bought Deulofeu for ٢.5M I think and sold him for 㾶M I believe. I've read that he said once that he was used to Barca always having possession in matches so he wouldn't have to chase and harry or make tackles unlike he was expected to do elsewhere.

In my eyes, Deulofeu was (still is) a spoilt little brat who had so much skill and pace but is willing to waste it all just cos he won't work hard enough or apply himself enough. He thinks he's better than he really is and has struggled at every club he has been to.

Compare him to Sandro and how he approaches the game. He is one year younger, also came up through the Barçha Academy, realised he's not going to make it to the first team that often so he moved to Malaga and scored 14 goals in 30 games.

It looks like he runs his butt off, works hard for the team and has a good attitude to better himself. Geri has played an amazing 36 times for the Spanish U21s scoring 17 goals. He started to play with them at 18 and is still there aged 23. I think that is the difference between the two players that Sandro has matured and looks like a senior player now whereas Geri is still thinking he's a great prospect.

Sandro Deulofeu
Age 22 23
Barca B 61 (15) 68 (27)
Barcelona 17(2) 2 (0)
2016-17 30 (14) 17 (4)
Spain U21 7 (1) 36 (17)

I could be totally wrong but I was very surprised that Sandro signed for us for only ٣.2M and I am really looking forward to him playing this season. It is very early days but, when Bolasie comes back into the side as well, and with Lookman, we will have some very good skillful attackers along with Rooney and Klaassen I think our style of play will be very different to last year when everything was going through Rom. We will be a lot less predictable this year. I just hope that Koeman and Co have got one more ace up their sleeve with a striker that will get us 15+ goals a season.

I don't particular rate him but I wonder would signing Benteke and him doing well with us, really annoy the RS. Haha. I think I prefer Giroud to be honest. Slimani didn't do great last season.

The missing piece of the jigsaw is a target man that will score and bring his team mates into play.

Giroud would have been a perfect fit but it looks like he is staying put. Benteke would fit the bill also but I am going to throw a wild card into the mix – Rondon from West Brom.

But this coming season is different. We have a manager one year already into a three-year deal to get us qualified for the Champions League. This coming season really demands improvement on seventh I'd respectfully suggest, regardless of cups (although any one of them would be very welcome indeed).

If we end up seventh again, or worse, after the expenditure on players to date I suspect Koeman may well be sacked, and deservedly so. I don't know what the Latin is for "Stagnation Equals Shite" but I suspect Farhad Moshiri knows it way better than our quaint "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum". That's why he's a billionaire.

Brian (#198) – another good post. On Slimani I've had a look at some Leicester fan sites and they are split on him. However, three things come out:

(1) He was injured a lot so did not get a full season in.

(2) He was played out of position. They see him as a number 9 (which is where we will play him) but Leicester played him as a No 10 to back up Vardy. Also, Leicester play to allow Vardy (on the shoulder of the last defender) to score. None of this suited Slimani.

(3) Leicester were really poor overall last season – so very hard for the strikers.

So, although a little underwhelming, I think he will do better for us as he's good in the air – the Pelle type striker that works well under Koeman. I also think he's quite likely to come as Leicester want to sell him.