Adedoyin makes temporary Hamilton move

Strange to go from U18s to the SPL. I hope it's a good move, but I think he'd be better with a year of U23 footy.

I was thinking the same Steve. It seems strange to loan an 18 year old out when we don’t have a plethora of strikers in the U23’s. You’d think that, at 18 years old, quality coaching should still be at the forefront of a players development.

Other than Gordon, Hornby and Simms, do we have any recognised U23 strikers?

A big leap for the kid, so I’m assuming there’s some guarantees about SPL game time and not just their Reserve League. On the positive side they must have seen something in him that they believe he’ll do well as Hamilton will likely be fighting relegation this season.

Kevin, I would add Kieran Phillips to the list of attackers at U23s. Plus we’ve got the highly promising attacker Lewis Dobbin joining as a new Scholar. He needs to be eased into full time training, but hopefully could get U23s game time in the New Year.

I think it's a good move for Adedoyin. Hamilton have a great record in bringing through youth players. James McCarthy, James McArthur, Lewis Ferguson (Doing great at Aberdeen now) spring to mind. They play on a plastic pitch, but they try to play good football. He should find the chance to build strength and confidence playing in the SPL, and will get a chance to play against the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs. I think this will improve him more than a year in the U23s, assuming he plays!

Brian Rice, former Nottm Forest player, is the manager at Hamilton, a good footballing wing half, maybe it will help Korede to play under this type of manager.

"Strange to go from U18s to the SPL. I hope it's a good move, but I think he'd be better with a year of U23 footy."

Ohhh, I dunno! A loan move to Hamilton for the mop-haired John Paul Kissock worked out well...[cough!].

People can't seem to make up their minds.

"Joe Bloggs, 18/19, goes on loan" - he should be in the U23s

"Joe Bloggs, 18/19, promoted to U23s" – he needs to be playing first-team football.

"Joe, Bloggs, 20, blablabla" – he really needs to explode on the scene this season, time is running out.

blalabla

From what I've heard, and the little I've seen, this lad looks a talent.

The Scottish Premiership didn't do much harm for the development of Andrew Robertson nor Ryan Fraser at 18 years of age.

Jay (6), I didn't know Kissock had played for Hamilton, Jay. He did quite well at Ross County, he never got near the bench under Moyes at Everton.

Can't find anything saying JPK played for Ross County, Dave. He signed for Hamilton full-time on leaving Everton (so I was wrong about a loan move).

The loan whilst at Everton was to Gretna. Dunno if he got married whilst there also!

Absolutely no idea where he is playing his football these days, or even if he is still in the game at any level.

Jay (9), I’m almost sure JPK went on loan toRoss County they were an amalgamation of two clubs, at that time, a lot of money was poured into them, but you may be correct, you’ve certainly got me doubting myself now, I know he played non-league for Southport later on in his career, not sure where he went after that, or whether he got married in Gretna !!!

I’ve got to concede Jay, it was Gretna JPK went on loan to, don’t know how Ross County got into my head.

JPK was still playing non league football at the end of last season with Whitehawk, don’t know what league they are in. He has had a varied career, mostly in non league football, although he was transferred for £23,000 when he left Southport for Luton Town. Courtesy of Google.

Dave, Ross County have been RossCounty for many years, it’s Inverness Cally Thistle you were thinking of re two clubs joining together, Caledonian and Thistle in Inverness. ( Sorry for the off topic!)

Phil (12), yes realised this looking for JPK career, I got Ross County completely wrong, my memory needs an MOT, or maybe VAR having a look at it !!!

You might have to wait a while for the VAR decision to come through, Dave.

I’ve got contacts Jay !!

Fran, I don't agree with the loan system like others do. I think it is better for a player of 18 to be coached by the first team coaches and to learn from them. In addition, I believe the player will improve from being in and around the first team players, even if they are not playing games.

Between the age of 18 and 21 the player should improve dramatically, if they are ever going to be capable of making the Everton first team. If he does, he gets a game. If he doesn't, then you can loan him out.

I view the loan system as a chance for the player to show that he can improve with games, and that it would be wrong to sell him.

In the case of Korede Adedoyin, he's barely trained with the u23s, let alone the first team. I fail to see how going to Hamilton and playing for a smaller side in the SPL will benefit his long term development. This is not a player I think will fall short, he's one I think has a genuine chance of making the Everton first team and having a first class career. I see this loan as detrimental to his development as I believe he would improve more through exposure to first team training and we have seen already how Silva has called a few up to the first team already.

As for JP Kissock, there's an excellent interview with him on the Echo's Royal Blue Podcast, where he was very candid on his career. Find the link in this article:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-everton-youngster-moyes-van-15268917

Steve Ferns

I haven't seen many hanging around in the under 23s for too long who come out better on the other side. Davies pretty much skipped it. The likes of Charsley, Sambou, Gethin Jones, Foulds, Evans, now seemingly Feeney have taken that route only to stagnate and go nowhere.

Two years ago Alex Denny was in the first team squad for the Europa as a kid. Two years of time with Unsie later and he is exactly where? Nowhere. This Anthony Gordon character was lauded 18 months ago but has been overlooked for the recent friendly squads. I honestly cannot think of anyone who has improved from the under 18s through the under 23s. If anything, it seems like we have promising 17 year olds, who just stop progressing altogether once they move up to the under 23s.

Kieran (17), not going against your argument, but in defence of Alex Denny I think he has been out of action with a long term injury and only came back near the end of last season.

Kieran, the very best players are close to the first team by 18, ie Davies, Rooney ant Barkley. As for Gordon, the lad is still just 18 and is progressing well. Expect him to be the star for the u23s this season.

Steve (16) - My problem with your preference for retaining young footballers is the issue of games. I think they need to be playing around 20-30 games a season. The academy team has to look at the number of players it has and work out how best to develop them - individually and as a group. Clubs like ours can afford to develop big youth squads, but it can mean that many will struggle for regular game time with the Under 23s or Under 18s - let alone the first team. Loans allow us to pitch individual players against specific challenges that are designed to help their development - not just as players but also as commodities. Sad but true. A player going out on loan can offer a greater spotlight on that player, and if they perform well then it will have a knock-on effect on their market value.

Loaning out a player is a roll of the dice, and some players will really find their feet away from Finch Farm. Hopefully Adedoyin will be up for the challenge and in 12 months time he’ll be closer to our first team than if he’d played a dozen Under-23 games.

You can train all you want Steve, but playing real competitive football is what brings a player on mate.

Sure you will learn things training with the first team squad, but it’s only training, and most senior players, rarely go full throttle until they are playing competitive football, and this is when you really learn about a player?

Andrew, how does playing for Hamilton Academicals with their illustrious roster, training with them, with their coaches, and playing against the standard of sides in the SPL outweigh what they’d get by staying at Everton.

Sure, if we’re talking Kieran Dowell, then he’s had the coaching, he’s trained with our best and he needs to play more than anything.

Adedoyin hasn’t trained with our first team. He’s barely played for the u23s. Being in and around the first team, seeing how hard they train by having to match them will help him enormously. I think this particularly would benefit him. He’s also to learn off our coaching staff and they will improve his game. 12 months of that is better than games in the SPL. Let them get hold of him and make him a better player. Who’s going to do that for hamilton?

Tony, they do go full throttle. They have to. Why doesn’t James McCarthy play for the u23s people kept asking, because he needed to be in the first team and getting the levels of fitness from first team training because it is full throttle.

You say train all you want, but he hasn’t. He’s not trained with the first team. He can’t take lessons away and put them into practice.

It’s like saying you don’t need an apprenticeship because you went to school and learnt x, y and z so now go figure it out for yourself as you learn more that way. Sure you do, but you also need that middle ground.

Adedoyin needs first team training to teach him to be a first team player. 18 is too young for a loan in my opinion. What this loan tells me is that he’s either pushed for it, or the club don’t think he’s good enough, or both.

Steve

The first team training logic goes against what the managers have said. Last year Silva said Dowell "neds games." The year prior Koeman, and two years prior RM, both said McCarthy "needs games" even though he had been training week in week out before returning to action. So obviously, they feel there is something lacking in training e.g. not going full throttle as Dave suggests.

As for Adedoyin, he was liking posts on Twitter about moving to Scotland last month. Since then the club have given him a 3 year deal. Presumably, they rate him or no deal. Then one must assume that the notion of going on loan to Scotland was thought wise by all parties and discussed prior to the new deal which was only signed four days before the loan agreement.

Dowell is 21, soon to be 22. Of course he needs games. The thread is about an 18-year-old. The star of the U18s with Simms. He should step up to the U23s this season. That would see him get a few first-team sessions when injuries permit. He has learning to do. He's never worked with first team coaches. Dowell is a different story.

As for McCarthy, sure, he needs games, but if that was so much better than first team training, why didn't they let him go on loan last January? Why do no first-teamers for any Premier League side play for U23s? Why do they all work with first-team fitness coaches instead?

Steve 25

You seem to contradict yourself because on one hand you're saying he should go up to the Under-23s but then on the other hand you dismiss the Under-23s as of being no use to McCarthy versus first team training. In which case why bother with it at all?

The only plus side seems to be that he could get a "few first team sessions when injuries permit."

So, in other words, he will waste his time with Unsie for a year, hoping that enough people get injured so that once or twice he can have a training session with the first team coaches? Versus, playing in Scotland in a competitive league, against men, in front of sometimes big crowds. I just don't see the advantage in the U23 option.

Kieran, he's going up, McCarthy's going down. He's making progress. He played at U23 level a few games and he struggled. He will be against older players and that lightning pace he has won't be as effective. He will have to learn a few new tricks.

Instead he's going into the man's world where he'll get kicked up and down the pitch. I don't think he's ready for that. He's very much a young boy and he has a lot to work on. He's very talented but I fear this loan move could derail his career.

Or it could also be the making of him?

It could well be Tony. Let’s hope so. It’s not how you’re meant to progress talented young players. It’s all very strange.

Steve (22) - I don’t know what’s best for Adedoyin. Playing in the SPL is a great opportunity for an 18 year old, and realistically he’s going to be working closely with a group of players that will at the very least be decent professional footballers. I don’t think dismissing their players in the manner you do is your finest moment, and if Adedoyin gets some good first team opportunities then he’ll be playing against much tougher opposition than he would be in the Under 23s - and there is great value in that.

My suspicion is that Unsworth/Silva et al have a rough idea of which players they want to develop via the Under 23s and/or First Team this season - and Adedoyin was likely to be on the fringes behind Simms, Evans, Gordon and/or whoever else is not sent out on loan. Not everyone will get regular game time for the Under 23s because 30 odd players into 11 positions over 30 odd games just doesn’t go - so some have to go out on loan. I don’t know why you have such a problem with it.

If I was the kid I’d be delighted and would be thinking inside my head that I was getting fast-tracked.

Andrew (30), I'm a bit mixed about this move but agree with your point. Adeydoyin hasn’t played any U23s minutes for us and I too think he would have struggled to get consistent game time with the likes of Simms, Gordon, Mampala, Phillips in his age range and the other guys who may or may not go on loan.
The dilemma for me is that I think we have a good coaching set up who work hard on youngsters weaknesses, making sure they are two footed, tactically aware etc. He’s a bit young to leave this set up and I think he loses that individual coaching aspect at Hamilton, but it’s a great move for him if he can break into their 1st team and play SPL football. So I’m seeing it as overall positive for him and hope he does well.