The Everton U18s forward recently signed his first professional contract with the Blues and has now been farmed out to Scotland to gain first-team experience.
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1 Posted 11/07/2019 at 23:58:24
2 Posted 12/07/2019 at 09:52:23
Other than Gordon, Hornby and Simms, do we have any recognised U23 strikers?
3 Posted 12/07/2019 at 12:30:50
Kevin, I would add Kieran Phillips to the list of attackers at U23s. Plus weve got the highly promising attacker Lewis Dobbin joining as a new Scholar. He needs to be eased into full time training, but hopefully could get U23s game time in the New Year.
4 Posted 12/07/2019 at 12:58:04
5 Posted 12/07/2019 at 13:08:21
6 Posted 12/07/2019 at 13:42:01
Ohhh, I dunno! A loan move to Hamilton for the mop-haired John Paul Kissock worked out well...[cough!].
7 Posted 12/07/2019 at 13:57:52
"Joe Bloggs, 18/19, goes on loan" - he should be in the U23s
"Joe Bloggs, 18/19, promoted to U23s" – he needs to be playing first-team football.
"Joe, Bloggs, 20, blablabla" – he really needs to explode on the scene this season, time is running out.
From what I've heard, and the little I've seen, this lad looks a talent.
The Scottish Premiership didn't do much harm for the development of Andrew Robertson nor Ryan Fraser at 18 years of age.
8 Posted 12/07/2019 at 14:20:07
9 Posted 12/07/2019 at 15:37:54
The loan whilst at Everton was to Gretna. Dunno if he got married whilst there also!
Absolutely no idea where he is playing his football these days, or even if he is still in the game at any level.
10 Posted 12/07/2019 at 15:46:44
11 Posted 12/07/2019 at 16:17:31
JPK was still playing non league football at the end of last season with Whitehawk, dont know what league they are in. He has had a varied career, mostly in non league football, although he was transferred for £23,000 when he left Southport for Luton Town. Courtesy of Google.
12 Posted 12/07/2019 at 16:38:51
13 Posted 12/07/2019 at 16:49:47
14 Posted 12/07/2019 at 17:13:45
15 Posted 12/07/2019 at 18:00:24
16 Posted 12/07/2019 at 18:43:30
Between the age of 18 and 21 the player should improve dramatically, if they are ever going to be capable of making the Everton first team. If he does, he gets a game. If he doesn't, then you can loan him out.
I view the loan system as a chance for the player to show that he can improve with games, and that it would be wrong to sell him.
In the case of Korede Adedoyin, he's barely trained with the u23s, let alone the first team. I fail to see how going to Hamilton and playing for a smaller side in the SPL will benefit his long term development. This is not a player I think will fall short, he's one I think has a genuine chance of making the Everton first team and having a first class career. I see this loan as detrimental to his development as I believe he would improve more through exposure to first team training and we have seen already how Silva has called a few up to the first team already.
As for JP Kissock, there's an excellent interview with him on the Echo's Royal Blue Podcast, where he was very candid on his career. Find the link in this article:
17 Posted 12/07/2019 at 18:50:41
I haven't seen many hanging around in the under 23s for too long who come out better on the other side. Davies pretty much skipped it. The likes of Charsley, Sambou, Gethin Jones, Foulds, Evans, now seemingly Feeney have taken that route only to stagnate and go nowhere.
Two years ago Alex Denny was in the first team squad for the Europa as a kid. Two years of time with Unsie later and he is exactly where? Nowhere. This Anthony Gordon character was lauded 18 months ago but has been overlooked for the recent friendly squads. I honestly cannot think of anyone who has improved from the under 18s through the under 23s. If anything, it seems like we have promising 17 year olds, who just stop progressing altogether once they move up to the under 23s.
18 Posted 12/07/2019 at 19:27:30
19 Posted 12/07/2019 at 19:59:54
20 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:08:01
Loaning out a player is a roll of the dice, and some players will really find their feet away from Finch Farm. Hopefully Adedoyin will be up for the challenge and in 12 months time hell be closer to our first team than if hed played a dozen Under-23 games.
21 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:18:21
Sure you will learn things training with the first team squad, but its only training, and most senior players, rarely go full throttle until they are playing competitive football, and this is when you really learn about a player?
22 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:24:19
Sure, if were talking Kieran Dowell, then hes had the coaching, hes trained with our best and he needs to play more than anything.
Adedoyin hasnt trained with our first team. Hes barely played for the u23s. Being in and around the first team, seeing how hard they train by having to match them will help him enormously. I think this particularly would benefit him. Hes also to learn off our coaching staff and they will improve his game. 12 months of that is better than games in the SPL. Let them get hold of him and make him a better player. Whos going to do that for hamilton?
23 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:28:21
You say train all you want, but he hasnt. Hes not trained with the first team. He cant take lessons away and put them into practice.
Its like saying you dont need an apprenticeship because you went to school and learnt x, y and z so now go figure it out for yourself as you learn more that way. Sure you do, but you also need that middle ground.
Adedoyin needs first team training to teach him to be a first team player. 18 is too young for a loan in my opinion. What this loan tells me is that hes either pushed for it, or the club dont think hes good enough, or both.
24 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:39:12
The first team training logic goes against what the managers have said. Last year Silva said Dowell "neds games." The year prior Koeman, and two years prior RM, both said McCarthy "needs games" even though he had been training week in week out before returning to action. So obviously, they feel there is something lacking in training e.g. not going full throttle as Dave suggests.
As for Adedoyin, he was liking posts on Twitter about moving to Scotland last month. Since then the club have given him a 3 year deal. Presumably, they rate him or no deal. Then one must assume that the notion of going on loan to Scotland was thought wise by all parties and discussed prior to the new deal which was only signed four days before the loan agreement.
25 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:46:02
As for McCarthy, sure, he needs games, but if that was so much better than first team training, why didn't they let him go on loan last January? Why do no first-teamers for any Premier League side play for U23s? Why do they all work with first-team fitness coaches instead?
26 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:55:10
You seem to contradict yourself because on one hand you're saying he should go up to the Under-23s but then on the other hand you dismiss the Under-23s as of being no use to McCarthy versus first team training. In which case why bother with it at all?
The only plus side seems to be that he could get a "few first team sessions when injuries permit."
So, in other words, he will waste his time with Unsie for a year, hoping that enough people get injured so that once or twice he can have a training session with the first team coaches? Versus, playing in Scotland in a competitive league, against men, in front of sometimes big crowds. I just don't see the advantage in the U23 option.
27 Posted 12/07/2019 at 20:58:49
Instead he's going into the man's world where he'll get kicked up and down the pitch. I don't think he's ready for that. He's very much a young boy and he has a lot to work on. He's very talented but I fear this loan move could derail his career.
28 Posted 12/07/2019 at 22:50:05
29 Posted 12/07/2019 at 22:57:20
30 Posted 12/07/2019 at 23:09:28
My suspicion is that Unsworth/Silva et al have a rough idea of which players they want to develop via the Under 23s and/or First Team this season - and Adedoyin was likely to be on the fringes behind Simms, Evans, Gordon and/or whoever else is not sent out on loan. Not everyone will get regular game time for the Under 23s because 30 odd players into 11 positions over 30 odd games just doesnt go - so some have to go out on loan. I dont know why you have such a problem with it.
31 Posted 13/07/2019 at 07:47:54
32 Posted 13/07/2019 at 09:46:21
The dilemma for me is that I think we have a good coaching set up who work hard on youngsters weaknesses, making sure they are two footed, tactically aware etc. Hes a bit young to leave this set up and I think he loses that individual coaching aspect at Hamilton, but its a great move for him if he can break into their 1st team and play SPL football. So Im seeing it as overall positive for him and hope he does well.
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