Grateful Mina feeling more settled at Everton

The team has looked ok Ish at times but something, probably several somethings, is missing. We have to win games, quickly. It's crucial to win away and Burnley is a tough but good opportunity to do just that.

Mina is making progress. But really winning is the only progress. Needs to happen now.

In today's economic climate of inflated transfer fees he will be a real bargain

I seen enough in his early displays, particularly the Derby at Anfield, to see that he is an excellent player.

The pattern of a football game is vastly different when you have players that can score goals and put you in the lead. It gives the team something to protect.

Unfortunately we have virtually no creativity or ability to convert chances.

This heaps a lot of pressure on the defence and as such Individuals writhin that defence become exposed.

He is an immense figure but I don't believe he uses his stature aggressively enough. Wesley outmuscled him repeatedly at Villa Park. Not because he is more powerfully, but because he was more forcesful and aggressive. Mina needs to find that within himself and start dominating strikers from the outset

Playing alongside Keane who is also guilty of the same, can be a bit desperate, especially when it's backs against the wall time.

His partnership with Keane is not ideal as neither has the recovery pace to get back and I think we've had to play a slightly deeper line than Silva would like as a result. If Silva had his way I think we'd be seeing Mina and Zouma. A small chance that may be the case in the second half of the season.

I can imagine Mina leaving in 18 months time and will become the player we all hoped he would be for us.

Maybe we will get him in January!

I would have thought that he would be agonising about our disastrous start, but here he is in his own little bubble quite pleased with the way things are going. It seems to me if our No 1 centre-back is so unconcerned with the tripe we've had to watch, it just shows nobody is taking responsibility for this mess.

Unlucky not to score on Saturday though, come on fella.

The spine of the team is missing. Zouma went, Gueye went. No scoring striker bought. With those changes the team needs time to jell. Alternatively we need a good January window!

Whilst Kean may come good but it looks like we've gone too long term on a striker where we need the goals NOW!

Our general defending, individually and collectively, has been very poor this season... lots of individual errors, players been caught out of position. Keane's form has taken a real nose dive from the fairly high standards he set last season. Pickford also at fault for conceding goals he should've prevented.

I don't see our fortunes on the pitch improving until our deficiencies at the back are improved upon. If we concede first our general play becomes ponderous – the Sheffield Utd game was a prime example of that. We really seem to be short of leaders in our team – a real lack of 'win at all costs' mentality. I wish more of our players were more like Delph who seems to be cut from a different cloth from the rest.

Coleman, and Digne were constantly getting pulled inside on Saturday, but was this because they don't trust our centre-halls, or because of the way City played?

I believe that Mina is the same height as Usain Bolt. Both 6'5" giants. Usain Bolt is the fastest man of all time. Yet, when he stepped onto a football pitch he never really displayed lightning pace. The reason being that it's not the same as starting in blocks on a track with traction and running in a straight line. If you are in constant motion and twisting and turning, you need to sort your feet out and then you can power into your sprint. Which means that Bolt needed a few seconds to get going and you don't get that in football, and you get it even less as a central defender where people are running at you.

Personally, I think Mina is going to be great. I don't think anyone gave Ederson enough credit for his performance against us. He got man of the match for a reason. The biggest of those was two saves against Mina. Another keeper and that was at least one goal and then it's a different game. Mina is getting better and adapting and once he does he will be a real force. I think he'll be the best player in this league in the air. Like Duncan, he gets up well for a big man. 6'7" crouch is the top scorer for headed goals in the Premier League, but he never jumped and his technique was pretty lousy. Ferguson and Mina do jump and their technique is good. Mina could do with a few more tips from Duncan though.

The only issue, other than his speed and reactions in those first few vital seconds, is he has the touch of the Yobos about him. I thought Joey Yobo was never the defender he should have been. Great pace, good in the air, decent on the deck, great tackler, he had everything for a defender. But, he was liable to switch off and pass without looking, and just lapsed in concentration. Which meant he would undermine all his good work with a moment of madness every few games. Mina is not quite as bad as that, no. But he does have lapses of concentration and I fear that unless he sorts them out he could go the same way. Still early days though and still have high hopes.

And as much as most dislike Schneiderlin, you'd all rather he was passing the ball than any of our centre-backs. Also, you cannot deny that Schneiderlin is playing well and getting better and better with every game. He's only got 18 months left here and his contract will not be renewed. He's also likely to be displaced by Gbamin or Gomes whenever one of them returns, as Delph will retain his place.

So, yes, I'm glad you love what you're doing, Yerry, and you wake up every day feeling reborn. I wouldn't mind a pint of whatever you're drinking.

My feeling of depression has deepened by your introduction of 'heat maps' when discussing players' performances. I fear for the future of the game, and wonder if, before being allowed entry to the ground, fans will be required to take some sort of test to establish their understanding of tactics, formations, etc, or will all this be stored on mobile phones which supporters can rent for the duration of the game?

I suppose I'm being a little cynical, but it amazes me that you can enjoy your match day experience, with all this information to observe and retain.

If the team is defending, then okay, the perceived defensive skills could see that as a better move, but if the team is attacking, then surely it's a midfielder, particularly this one with his capabilities of passing and his superior touch and technique that would make you want the midfielder there.

I know everyone else thinks Schneiderlin is the devil incarnate, but if you can see past that, he's far superior to a third centre-back. And you don't need a heat map to understand that. If you don't understand that then a heat map could help.

Playing with Gabriel Jesus before he left for City, aged just 21, Mina was a HUGE presence and player in both penalty areas for Palmeiras in the season they ended a 22-year wait to land the league title.

Steve Ferns desciption of him is a good one. Mina is no slouch once he gets up to speed. His recovery pace is good. But as we know, at this level, a player getting a metre start on you can do a lot of damage before you can get back at him. He does have a bit of the 'Yobos' in him with poor lapses of concentration and positional awareness at times, but he is still young and adjusting.

And I can't agree with the poster claiming Mina "doesn't use his stature aggressively enough" and that "Wesley outmuscled him repeatedly at Villa Park." He most certainly DOES use his stature aggressively and it was a fascinating tussle between him and Wesley with give and take on both sides. Mina won some. Wesley won some. Far from being 'repeatedly outmuscled.'

As others have expressed, there is presently too much similarity in their games 'twixt Keane and Mina, whereas Keane and Zouma last season offered a better balance. That is not to say they cannot improve.

The team and the setup is getting rightly slaughtered for conceding too frequently from dead ball situations. That is a systemic problem which Silva seemed to have eradicated in the last third of last season when we kept a LOT of clean sheets. But in open play this season, the defence is not being afforded the same protection as the whole team offered at the end of last season.

And - sorry Tony Abrahams! I know it's a bit of a hobby horse for you, but I can't agree with your repeated calls to overhauling the system and going with three centre backs.

But back to Mina, I believe in him. I also believe he has the potential (if he isn't already) of being a huge positive presence in the squad. He really is a constantly cheerful and upbeat personality.

And whilst he is winning the ball more in the opposition area when we attack, we have yet to see much evidence of the power heading he is capable of. His record with Palmeiras, for example, was 6 goals in 28 games - better than 1 in 5. Be nice to start seeing that sort of return with us. I would also suggest we need to be more alert and react better around the 6-yard box in anticipation of him winning the first ball on free kicks and corners. A fox in the box would be gobbling up those second balls.

The collective has to be better than the individual but in Everton's case the reverse is true.

We are playing like a bunch of strangers with no cohesion or forethought and very little energy.

I am still waiting for our watershed moment and hope for all our sakes it is soon.

I still have some concerns on his injuries. It's very early in the season and he often looks uncomfortable and grimaces especially when he's landing after challenging for headers later in the game. I worry how he'll cope come January / February.

However he does possess the attributes of a very good defender. So his signing is a delayed 'hit' as long as he stays fit.

But.. imo he's only a slight improvement on Keane. Both are liable to stupidly rush out making rash challenges they were never likely to win. They both take to many risks passing the ball when they need to simply clear it down the channel. Neither have good balance or acceleration but Mina is pacey after 10 yards.

A lot of this may be the managers tactics but they have to make the right decisions during game time. The general lack of leadership and experience at the back doesn't help anyone.

"Oh but we have the experienced Schnides playing so wonderfully well" some say.

"BALLS" I say. He plays more passes backwards than he does forwards. Again putting defenders under needless pressure and not linking play like a midfielder should.

For all those who constantly criticised Gana makes me worry what some think they see or want to see.

Kevin #9 and Michael #16, talk about "tripe"... nothing in Mina's interview said he was either "happy" or "pleased" with the way things are going overall for the club, just that he's feeling good about his own improvement and grateful to the manager, club and fans for their support. What the hell's wrong with that? Personally, I consider him a bright spot in a dismal picture and I enjoy his optimism.

Ray #8, Zouma was out of the Chelsea squad against Brighton because of illness. He's back in training and may be available tomorrow at Lille.

That's were you have to look at Silva. Faced with the reality from almost game one that those three will play nearly all the games he hasn't adjusted the formation or tactics to mitigate the weakness.
I'd offer he should ask the team to sit deeper, and forget about pressing a team until they hit our half. It would protect those players. Instead of the high line has both centre backs trying to either pinch the ball (lose it they're clean through) or drop off completely (too much time and space). Neither works.
I think this would adjust our tactics to allow us to counter attack properly, given more space it would give our better players space to run in to, something they don't have currently, and offer a ball in behind, something Kean wants desperately. This is something we simply don't do as Silva has us both pressing and hogging possession in most games at the same time?! That clearly doesn't work, the results are unequivocal.
The question is can he change? Can he see it's a necessity now because he's wasted too many games?
He has shown nothing to indicate he will change so I won't hold my breath. He sprung a surprise last time out at Burnley, but I doubt Dyche will fall for it again.

Hi-ho Silva.

"He's 6 foot 5 and his names Yerry Mina,

His **** like hose on a vacuum cleaner,

He goes on the lemo with David Ospina,

Heeeeey Yerry Mina."

We can't sing that one as we got investigated for racism for singing it.

My favourite was this one, to the tune of "Have you seen her?"

"He's a 6ft 5 Colombian, and now he's signed for Everton,
Yerry Mina, oh Yerry Mina,
We'll sing his name Everywhere we go,
From the Gwladys street & away from home,
Yerry Mina, oh Yerry Mina"

Considering how many of our first team are struggling, especially our attacking unit, and the respective options that Arsenal and United have in terms of their playing squads - and the general scrutiny their managers are under - surely Gordon (who seems to be regularly lighting up the Under23s) should be in the Everton manager's thoughts now. But is Silva brave enough to give him a run out?

But Saturdays first goal, a great demonstration and execution of pin point cross into the eye of a needle and perfect finish by a top City player, in my book said volumes about the lack of cohesion and piss poor communication across the back four and our team in general.

Playing with a Michael Keane there's a sense of not if, but when the next unforced error be it poor pass, switching off will happen. The defence looks uncomfortable the CBs, lack of understanding and reading the danger is making us fair game for every team. If City had gone for it wither best team, then it could have been a lot worse.

Every game this season the defence has been exposed. Jordan Pickford is also guilty of not commanding his area effectively bothverbally and physically.

The loss of Jean Phillips and Andre, has left us with not core, no shape and the midfield it seems is always being exposed and in many games over ran.

I don't blame Schneiderlin for the poor form, as he has been playing better than most.

Upfront and the ball rarely sticks, we are playing chunks of games facing our own goal keeper.

All teams have injuries, loss of form individually and as a team. As it stands the lack of genuine confidence and belief, from Jordan Pickford up the forward line sees us struggle.

Burnley will go hell for leather and let's hope the mindset and belief will be there, as the bad run of fixtures is not too far away.

Will matters improve, that remains to be seen, but let's hope it dies and very soon.

Wide open to a through ball as demonstrated all season

Fails to take ownership when free kick is whipped in.

I've never seen a player win so many balls in the air and not trouble the goalie. He wasn't unlucky on Saturday he missed a fucking open goal

Has at least one wild slash every game

Gets involved in petty battles and loses concentration by prolonging them.

Doesnt communicate

Takes five strides to get into full flight.

Mind you. He cost nearly thirty Million quid. and he's South American. . so he's above criticism.

If I could just put all the above out of my mind. Ignore the fact that our defence (with him at the heart of it) has already conceded 13 going on 30 and the fact that he's more interested in fighting than playing. . I guess I could see my way clear to agreeing with everyone else on here.

How bad does it have to get before people start calling these jokers out ?

As you say, John, if I may call you John - not being one of the Steve Ferns gang and all that, how anyone can enjoy watching a simple game of football without overcomplicating the way it's played through analysis for the sake of analysis, I just don't know.

Whatever happened to those passing diagrams, a la Sky pundits, that we were subjected to by the Head Honcho and Defender of Silva?

Some people can watch a player closely, I've only ever been interested in the ball, when I watch football, and although Schneiderlin had a much better game on Saturday, he doesn't offer nowhere near enough protection, and this is because he's just not good enough if we have got any intentions of improving as a team.

We are yet to win a game this season with Morgan in the team, (except Lincoln?) and although it's not only his fault, it's safe to say he his definitely part of the problem.

Keane is worse for me at the minute, no aggression, he's like me watching football, and has only got eyes for the ball, which means he consistently loses the man he's supposed to be marking, and it's no coincidence to me that Pickford has started losing his head again.

Our back four needs protecting, and if the men in-front of them aren't helping, then the only sensible option is to go to a back five, because we are leaking goals for fun, and it's not going to get any better with this present system, even if it's only on a short term basis?

If not, let's get more pace and more aggression into the middle of our defence, because it's nothing short of shambolic, and seems to have gone back to every man for himself yet again.

We are conceding goals for fun, and when this happens surely it's time to look at the personnel, and the system in which the manager is playing them in, so to suggest a hobby-horse, is a little bit off-course, imo, Jay!

You've repeatedly made the case for three centre-backs for the last 12 months.

I don't agree with you. It's that simple.

Not trouble the goalie? Ederson made two decent saves from Mina headers; whether Mina should have done better is another matter, but try and stick to the facts – it'd make your argument more compelling.

As it stands, I think Mina is doing all right. I worry about his pace on the turn, and a very strict ref might not look kindly on his grappling style, but he's surprisingly capable on the ball, and seems to be a positive character.

And Mina... l think he's been by far the better of the 2 cbs. Looks to be improving a lot to me. Wouldn't mind seeing him score, and he came close against City. Few poor corners from Digne but glad to hear Silva had been practicing set pieces a lot in training. That training ground free kick routine seems a long time ago now. Park End. Can't remember who it was against.

That's it.

Better to hope that Mina and Keane can develop a partnership then? That's what we pay Silva all that money for, I suppose.

"Whether he should have done better is another matter, but Stick to the facts" ?

Lets not make any bones about it here. Mina should most definitely have done better... One was an open goal from 5 yards out, The other one came off his ear .

"Two decent saves" you say? Well if they were, they where two my Missus would have made... ou then go on to add even more flaws to his game than the ones I listed.

I'm not here to make my "argument more compelling". I'm not even putting up an argument.

All I've done is list the things I've seen with my own eyes over the past few weeks. I don't care if other people want to try to deny them... They'll get fed up trying to defend this fella.

Fucking shocking but not at all surprising with the type of "player" we seem to attract at this club the last 3 or 4 seasons. It's bullshit like this that cements the view that these guys couldn't give a rat's ass how Everton Football Club or its fans fare, it's all about them?

Relegation zone with 1 win in 5 an abysmal start to the season and Yerry feels the need to share this with us NOW?

Is it a wonder you see these lot laughing and high-fiving opponents after getting embarrassed on the pitch? They couldn't give a flying fuck!!!

Keane frequently seems to be given the benefit of the doubt, Mina less so and the reason to me isn't obvious. Both were huge money. Neither have performed consistently well for the club. One is Colombian and the other is English.

I can see a stronger argument for hysteria.

Keane gets murdered on here. I should know because I've done a lot of the murdering - see recent thread.

Xenophobia ??? take a look at the goals conceded column.

For future reference; The correct term is 'shitecenterhalfophobia'.

Darren, THAT'S for sure!

But Tommy #48, that's an even more off-target post than Darren's, and I didn't think that was possible. No. Just no.

I love good football, it doesn't worry me when Delph, receives the ball on the edge of his own area, but it does bother me that our centre-halves are split so wide, and must be at least 40/60 metres away from each other, which just seems absolutely crazy, even if we have got the ball at the time.

Get them working on a defensive game and they might just have a chance together, but this just doesn't look like the case, when you watch Everton play at the minute.

He seems to have a system that the players have got to fit into, a hobby-horse maybe, but if they can't adapt surely he's got to change it, because I just can't see “short term pain — for long term gain”, but hopefully I'm wrong once again.

There is too much money in the game today as we know it, but how many players are, realistically, worried if they win or lose?

You don't become a top player without a huge competitive streak.

You are of course right however the relevant question is how they behave AFTER they become eh hem eh hem "top" players

To me, they are mere actors on a stage now similar to WWE and if I had a penny for everytime I saw a player in the blue shirt going through the motions (mostly since we became a "monied" club), I would be travelling around and avoid the rush via Lear Jet.

The guys on my alehouse team show more commitment to be honest, As an example, I don't believe we have overturned a deficit in a game in about 2 seasons or something ridiculous like that, says it all for me. Proof of the pudding etc etc.

It becomes just a job for most of them in the end I'm sure? Most players go through their careers without winning anything, (except the lottery!) And how many top flight managers in England, have won trophies I wonder, such is the competitive nature of the game?

Today, we have gigantic jelly-like centre-backs who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Someone in coaching has got to toughen them up. They are just too nice for their own good. and for my health. Can't we somehow find even one tough Scouser to bring into the team?

How you can say that Yerry Mina will be one of the top centre-backs in the country is just "ridiculous" plain and simple He will never be that! Fact!

Even his best performances this season cannot elevate him to that level or even into contention, he is getting worse not better!

I know what I see!! I think you clearly see what you want to see!

That"s it.

I put up the list of things about Mina that I have actually seen. Thats all.

I don't need to put up an argument about it. As council the defence, that's your job.
Repeatedly claiming you feel he will come good some time isn't really any sort of an argument.

I hope you are proved right my friend, but at the moment I'm some way away from being convinced.

But a couple of your list items were so off target that I wonder what you've "actually seen"... for example, he's a nonstop communicator, continually talking to his mates (especially Keane) and pointing out positions. And as to not troubling the keeper, he had Ederson at full stretch with that second header.

And I do have to say that your implication that he's "above criticism" because he's South American is as off target as Tommy's assertion that he's more heavily criticized because he's Colombian. I just don't see a comment pattern one way or the other relating to his country of origin.

Anyway, to my eyes he's already our best CB (having a better season than Keane) and overall a pretty good player whom I expect to improve as much -- and as quickly -- as Zouma did last season.

Finally, I understand your point about him getting up into opponents' faces, but I haven't seen it negatively affect his play -- and after the uncountable number of calls here for a little Cahill-esque fire on the pitch, I'm surprised to see someone complain about it. As long as he doesn't collect stupid cards (and he hasn't), I like his willingness to intimidate. I think we need that.

I agree on Zouma and also will feel he made a bad call and may even feel slighted by General Franco regards 1st team football etc.

As for Zouma, in the highly unlikely event he ever comes back, I think he'll take Keane's spot, not Mina's.

I was including his league Cup appearance. What he attempted and executed with precision in that game, neither of are centre-back attempt. I was very impressed with Holgate in that game.

I agree my statement was vague and should have been clearer. I put it down to my frustration at Mina and Keane passing to one another across the pitch, going nowhere.

I do disagree with you regarding Zouma, he will become the principal centrre-back if he returns, either partnering Mina or Keane or, may I say it, friend Holgate. He may alternate with Mina in cup competitions.

I have a feeling in my bones about Cup competitions this season regarding Everton.

I've generally been wanting Holgate to be given more opportunities but he did make one or two panicked clearances (wild slashes) in the game against Lincoln – and he still gets involved in physical battles that he is unlikely to win.

Once he becomes a bit more experienced in terms of when to commit to a challenge and when to slow an opponent up rather than risk being turned/beaten then I think he'll become a very good option, as he seems to already have a lot of strengths to his game.

That Silva doesn't trust him defensively is a measure of just how oblivious he is to train wreck that is our central defence.

It's kinda like saying you are going to run along the railway lines because you don't trust the train.

Holgate is a godawful passer.

I worry about you sometimes. Please don't go completely nuts before we meet.

I wanna remind you of that post

The kid is great with the ball at his feet. He should keep it there. Colorblind. Can't hit a blue shirt, especially under any kind of pressure. One of the reasons Silva doesn't trust him is because, in his five-game tryout at the start of last season, he committed two horrible passes that became goals against us.

And as a right-back, his crosses made Hibbo look like De Bruyne... although, from what little I saw, he did improve that last season on loan.

Of course, Silva watches them in training, doesn't he? Judging by the players he's determined to keep picking, I'm not sure what he's seeing.

I agree with you. He should be given more game time, and he is a bit raw. as a result. He has the potential to become really good. In the Lincoln game, his long pass distribution was excellent, and added to the speed of the attack. Normally, I agree with Mike, whose posts are on the ball, but I would advise him to have a closer look at Holgate. As well as improving, he is showing potential.

I actually do wonder if anyone at Everton looks at performance stats or at least discusses them with players after a game to see where they can improve. If stats were looked at, some players would not be selected to play. Steve's post / article had some interesting stats last week and I felt like throwing them at Silva, after I saw his team selection on Saturday.

And I agree that his long passing against Lincoln was quite good, but that was Lincoln, and I would also point out that he was unpressured. His first touch as a sub against Watford, with a defender closing down, was a horror pass sideways along the center line directly to an opposing player, producing an immediate counterattack and nearly the equalizer. The TV shot of Silva's face looked like a thundercloud.

I too am a Holgate fan. The attributes you detail are included in why. However what do don't mention is that Holgate is a player with a lot of belief. He certainly backs himself and we have a distinct lack of that in this team.

He's the kind of player that turns up at Anfield and doesn't perform with the demeanour of a rabbit in the headlights. He pushes their striker into the crowd because he thinks he can get away with it.

I'm not saying that this individual action benefited us in any way. But it showed me that young Mason has a bit about his character that is a winner.

You can bang on about the passes that go astray and there will be a few when you are as ambitious as he is, But Holgate is the best passer of a ball we've seen and are likely to see since John Stones left.

I'd rather see a player make mistakes trying to be creative, than watch stoppers who don't stop.

Having said all that, if either one of them are on the end of a Sigurdsson free-kick today, all will be forgiven.

I too don't like a pass across the back. It was a big defensive no no drummed into me as a Kid and I know where you are coming from regarding Lincoln. But in that game the ball was released a lot earlier from the back, and Holgate was instrumental in its execution. Sidebe was good as well. I just think Holgate could benefit from more playing time, and with match practise could iron out the rough patches.

Unfortunately megabucks have been paid for Mina and Keane and they will get preference, but Holgate can take hope from Calvert Lewin, who is similarly competing with megabuck players and showing them his heels. If the same assessments as they have to endure , were applied to some of the players that are currently have to play with, I think we all know who would be sti!l on the field.

I too don't like a pass across the back. It was a big defensive no-no drummed into me as a Kid and I know where you are coming from regarding Lincoln. But, in that game, the ball was released a lot earlier from the back, and Holgate was instrumental in its execution. Sidibe was good as well. I just think Holgate could benefit from more playing time, and with match practise could iron out the rough patches.

Unfortunately megabucks have been paid for Mina and Keane and they will get preference, but Holgate can take hope from Calvert-Lewin, who is similarly competing with megabuck players and showing them his heels. If the same assessments as they have to endure, were applied to some of the players that are currently have to play with, I think we all know who would be sti!l on the field.

Darren, I hope they both score, but I'd sooner they started being more dominant and aggressive because it might just spread through the team.