Lucas Digne has hailed Marco Silva as one of the best coaches he has worked with and says that the Portuguese's build-up to Saturday's win over West Ham was “perfect”.
Everton and their manager went into the clash with the Hammers sitting in the bottom three of the Premier League and under enormous pressure to produce a positive performance and secure three points.
The Blues put in what was arguably their most complete display of the season to win 2-0, a scoreline that failed to reflect their superiority and the chances they created.
“The mood [in the build-up] was perfect,” Digne told the Liverpool Echo's Phil Kirkbride.
“You [could] feel that we had lost four games consecutively but everybody came with a good mentality and we saw on the pitch against West Ham that the mentality was totally different and we played very fast, with intensity, we won every challenge and we didn't concede chances or nothing.
“He (Silva) gave a lot of confidence to the players and very good advice,” continued Digne who wore the captain's armband in the absence of the suspended Seamus Coleman.
“For me he is one of the best coaches I've had and I am sure he can be one of the best in the world.
“We watch videos together with the staff and if I ask to work on my crosses or defensively, he helps me a lot, he gives me advice.
“He reads the game really well. Some coaches can give advice during the game that you feel is not the solution but, Marco, when he gives you advice you think: 'Ah, yeah, this is true'.
“When we prepare for a game, he chooses the tactics and then he gives you the advice. When you play in the game you can see it's the solution. He is a really good coach.”
→ Read the full interview in the Liverpool Echo
Reader Comments (223)
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2 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:17:59
3 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:30:32
This strikes me as a player just coming out to defend his boss for the sake of it.
4 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:35:05
His selections for the game at Brighton will tell us more about his thinking. I sincerely hope he does not revert to type with the players that are returning from injury etc. The 11 who started Saturday deserve another game at least and, if they continue in the same vein, then they all deserve a long run in the team.
5 Posted 23/10/2019 at 07:45:37
6 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:15:55
Unfortunately like what most of them say it's not what we actually see on the pitch.
I fully agree with Annika. The Brighton game will tell us more about Silva in one day than we know in a year. Can he really be that stupid that he would change a team that has shown more in one game than the previous half dozen combined.
Brighton will be as open as West Ham, no sitting deep for them, especially at home. Same team please
7 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:55:25
8 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:31:35
9 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:32:38
10 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:36:22
As Annika has suggested along with others the 'proof of the pudding' will be if he sticks with the same team and tactics for the week-end, against a Brighton side who are not exactly setting the Premiership alight.
It's not that the defeats under Silva in general have all been against top opposition, or we have been extremely unlucky in getting decisions against us, it's been against teams we should be not only outplaying, but beating.
He has certainly not had any sort of pardon or reprieve in my book, but will have to prove between now and the end of the season that he is, what is players are saying - a good coach, but I have my doubts.
11 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:41:02
12 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:49:51
13 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:50:07
As for Digne, unlike some of the posters above, I think he has been in poor form, defensively weak, caught napping upfield and his crossing has been rank.
As others have also said, the selection for Brighton will tell us what Silva is thinking. I think he should keep the same team, but will he?
14 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:11:02
15 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:13:24
I noticed that too, Sigurdsson just didn't seem interested or even listening to what he was being told by Silva, maybe still sulking a little bit after being dropped.
However he was fired up when he came onto the pitch & scored a peach of a goal. (Made Wilshere look like he was on a waterslide.)
Just a shame it took being dropped to bring that out of him, after so many inconsistent performances.
16 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:27:18
Silva was asking Siggy if he wanted to watch Frozen with him and Digne.
Anyway, l thought the vote of confidence is supposed to come from the chairman. And before the West Ham game. Lets hope we continue the form away from home. If confidence and performances stay high Silva will have a hard time keeping everyone happy.
17 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:47:15
However, as others have said, let's see what comes this weekend against Brighton. Surely, the same starting 11, the same tempo, the same philosophy, the same everything. Away to Brighton should be treated as a home game in terms of taking the game to them. Silva may have stumbled over a winning team selection last weekend. Let's see if he has the nous to go with it again and let those lads produce the same outcome. COYB!
18 Posted 23/10/2019 at 10:57:12
Anyway, as others have said, I think the Brighton match will go a long way towards defining our season - starting with the team selection.
19 Posted 23/10/2019 at 11:26:59
Like others have said he does have an irritating habit of barking tactical plans and orders to substitutes as they prepare to take the field. I noticed he did exactly the same at Hull and Watford. Surely the players have had hours of preparation during endless sessions in the week and should know exactly what is required, maybe just a few words of encouragement would be sufficient to get the best results, as most players seem oblivious to his information overload.
20 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:01:15
A short spell on the bench certainly seemed to fire the iceman up. Competition for places is the key and a meritocracy would surely result in Sidibe and Davies keeping their places, and Iwobi should start ahead of Gylfi. Perhaps Sigurdsson is feeling the pace of so many games for club and country, and a few cameos might give him a bit of a chance to recharge his batteries.
I really hope Marco has stumbled upon his best team, but we shall see whether he realises it or simply takes it as a job done for one opponent and a different selection needed for Brighton?
21 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:02:31
22 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:16:07
23 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:28:27
After the game it was announced by Mr Carter that the managers position was under review. Translation : he was getting sacked. The following match was against Boro, and the players decided to have a go, and won 4-1. Too late for Mr Lee to keep his job.
We have to keep the massive improvement in attitude, effort, team selection and commitment going now. All season. One swallow does not a summer make. Let's go all out for the 3 handled pot.
24 Posted 23/10/2019 at 12:57:13
It was expected to be a funny season and it's turning out exactly that. So just like going into the Villa game with some excitement and ambition we find ourselves here again... Brighton on the horizon and a chance for us as a club to show what we are. Will we take it? If we don't l want Silva gone. If we do then yes let's see where it takes us.
26 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:01:22
Barring injury, it HAS to be the same team. If I see Schneiderlein in the starting line up, Ill give in.
I have a horrible feeling we will see MS and GS both back in the team at the expense of TD and AI.
27 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:06:45
All will be revealed with the team selection for the Brighton game.
28 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:51:53
It's okay being an ex Barcelona player or a World Cup winner but you have to play to a high level week in week out. Not just now and again.
There probably isn't one Brighton player that we would consider buying yet I bet they will still be very hard to beat and you could say the same about most of the teams that have beaten us so far. So Silva should be doing a better job with the players he has.
29 Posted 23/10/2019 at 13:52:16
Only when Robson finally said NO to the job was Kendall approached to take over in the early days of the 1981 close season. As they say, the rest is history.
30 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:33:55
So much of a players success is dependent upon playing for a manager that believes in him. Marco believes in Lucas, so Id expect nothing less than comments like this.
If Digne spoke out against Marco, hed be one ungrateful bastard, and that doesnt seem to fit with his personality in the least.
Waiting to see the lineup on Saturday!
31 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:34:56
32 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:39:12
A piece clearly written by the PR department in a French accent ! Fools nobody.
Made me think of a Communications Exec at the Liver building talking like the policeman from Allo Allo.. ‘I was pissing by the wy-ndow
33 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:46:12
34 Posted 23/10/2019 at 15:00:39
As supporters we prefer to see results on the pitch, home and away, not a write up in a paper from a player after 1 decent performance, action speaks louder than words.
35 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:17:31
Nothing to see here
36 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:34:14
Some of you need to take a day off. Or maybe take up a silent protest outside Silva's office? Fellas, it's not even been 5 days since our outstanding performance.
It's very difficult to compare the first 8 games with the inspired side we saw vs West Ham. Though interestingly the formation was largely the same.
If anything we're all in agreement on, it was his stubbornness in not making the clearly necessary changes much earlier. But even then, all the advanced football metrics (xG, xA, big chances created, key passes) said we should have won vs Sheffield & Villa, and at worst drawn level with Bournemouth. That's 7 points with the boring lineup! Which would have put us - checks table - between 3rd-5th depending on goal differential. Yes, we've been unlucky, and yes, a better, more cohesive squad on the pitch would surely have produced those better results. That's on Silva.
But context is needed, as always. Try being positive, as hard as that may be, and at least let things unfold on Saturday!
37 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:36:42
38 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:52:44
39 Posted 23/10/2019 at 17:16:19
Agree with Annika like other posts, the team played great football, especially as it was an enforced selection, especially with Davies starting, because Schneiderlin was injured, so he can't possibly change the lineup for the Brighton game, hopefully Mina can play.
40 Posted 23/10/2019 at 18:24:41
We'll I heard a few panic merchants mention the possibility. . but I didn't know the rest of you were "whinging about it"
No wonder Mark feels the need to put you all straight
41 Posted 23/10/2019 at 18:26:42
42 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:05:15
We all have a pop at Walcott, but with Siggy and Schnids dropped, we played a quicker tempo that suited Walcott.
Now whether this was a tactic Silva played, or was forced upon him, I only hope we go with the same players away to Brighton.
To be honest, I have a feeling he will go safety first and recall Schnids and probs Siggy, with Lewin being drafted back as the loan striker, if so then all the good work will be undone.
As the saying goes, if its not broke, dont fix it.
Lets wait until Saturday to see what team is sent out, if unchanged then we are learning, if the usual suspects are brought back in, then thats it with Silva for me.
We shall know more Saturday, heres hoping for more of the same as last week.
43 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:09:47
45 Posted 23/10/2019 at 19:59:03
The season that you're referring to, when Everton won 5 of their final 6 games, was 1981-82. The low attendances were recorded in that season, during which Howard Kendall made 4 league appearances and 1 League Cup, and 1 FA Cup appearance, as player/manager. Everton actually finished in 8th place on 54 points.
46 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:37:07
47 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:44:03
One reasonable game puts you in a frenzy of positivity, where incidently had their forward standing unmarked on the 6 yard line took his chance, the outcome of that game might have been completely different with the way we disintergrate under pressure.
Have you completely forgotten the form leading upto the WHU game. Let's wait and see where we are in 5 more games.
48 Posted 23/10/2019 at 20:58:34
With regards to EFC, I'm optimistic that now we seem to have put the right guys on the pitch, that the first 8 will be a different "phase" of this season. Hard to compare them when this is a different team, essentially. So yes sir, it's all puppies and rainbows and chocolate chip cookies over here. Of course if Marco reverts to the same boring side and style that didn't work pre-West Ham, then yup, my outlook will change, and right quick.
Hope that provides a little more context to where I was coming from.
49 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:00:41
……. all the advanced football metrics we should have won. Really ? Well we didn't
" Yes, we've been unlucky" Sorry Mark we have not been unlucky. We have been shite !!!!
Mark hopefully Silva will have learned a lesson last weekend and we will continue on an upward trend but let's not try and rewrite history.
50 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:08:48
And one of those appearances was against Forest when cough tried to sign him after the game
51 Posted 23/10/2019 at 21:59:42
Absolute guff. A manager that has the record for most goals conceded from set pieces or has never won from a losing position is not a world class manager.
He will bring one of the two cloggers back in the middle against Brighton.
He does not learn.
Therefore we will limp along with terrible away form and just enough at home to keep us in the league.
52 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:03:20
Sam Allardyce had a 38.46% win rate.
Koeman was 41.37%
Martinez was 43.35%
Moyes was 42.44%
Walter Smith was 28.27%
Howard Kendall III was 23.68%
Joe Royle was 40.00%
Mike Walker was 19.35%
Howard Kendall II was 35.86%
Colin Harvey was 45.10%
Howard Kendall I was 61.18%
Howard Kendall total was 48.67%
Gordon Lee was 36.46%
Billy Bingham was 35.00%
Harry Catterick was 40.95%
If you don't see the facts, Kendall, Harvey, Martinez and Silva are the top 4 Everton managers by win percentage. Yet Martinez and Silva get nominated by most on here as the worst managers we have ever had.
Some of you need to get real.
53 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:15:07
It would have been easier for to simply write that you don't understand how those metrics are defined. There truly is something call luck, and football is the sport where it makes the greatest impact. Think about it; hitting posts, poor calls, players blowing sitters (when a historical view of the situation would demonstrate that it was more likely to score than not score), and the like. Yes of course they have to play the games and some of the fault is on players making poor individual performances, but to simply dismiss them is equally ridiculous.
If you have Amazon Prime, I strongly recommend you watch the 6-part football series. The one about Frankfurt, and about the Chelsea/Bayern CL finals from 2012 (I think) goes really deep into how luck plays a huge role in the world of football. It's great and quite eye-opening.
54 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:16:23
(I'm taking the piss, btw)
55 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:21:31
I'm not convinced by this win percentage stat proving anything. Where's the context, where's the relative merits of each individual's teams & opponents?
When I was a kid, I thought win percentage played for Wales. I was, and still am, only interested in Everton managers that deliver trophies. That's the measure. That's what gives us the unbridled joy were desperate for, not whether one average manager had a 0.2% better win percentage stat than another.
They win us trophies, or they fail. Otherwise, what's the point?
56 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:26:16
How does anyone know Lucas Digne did not mean every word? Marcel Brands faced criticism last week from a disgruntled ex-employee with an axe to grind. People come out the woodwork to stick the boot in when your down. Silva has been a manager 7 and a bit seasons now. So where's the disgruntled ex-employee? Where's any of the 231 total players he's used in professional football coming out to stick the boot in? One maybe? No, not one. Every single ex-player who goes on record talks like Digne above.
57 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:28:43
Hopefully bar injuries, the same starting 11, will be available but its now alledged Mina is a doubt.
No excuses, the same level and consistency is needed and the aim this season to break a potential 25 year drought of silverware.
The players must surely be tuned and ready but lets see what happens.
58 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:29:11
I could understand lots saying they aren't convinced and being sceptical but the above reads like he already lost the next one.
59 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:33:00
60 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:36:40
The thing is, you know who's going to say what and when they're going to say it. And it's true that many on here seem as though they're desperate to fault in everything.
The thing to bear in mind, Steve, is that there were plenty like that in the mid-80s as well. And that was before social media!
61 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:42:44
I used to read ToffeeWeb during his third spell but I don't recall there being a comments section. We used to get the last guy to get in the car to print off the team news as we picked everyone up on the way to the game and read it in the car!
I'm just glad that I get to sit and chat to lot of different people before the game in the People's Club and most have been supportive and understanding of the manager, which is why we still had a god atmosphere for the West Ham game. The match going punters are far more positive than people on here.
62 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:46:33
However it will always be debatable that anyone who posts on TW is likely to be rational concerning Everton. I include myself when I state that everybody who joins Toffee Web and offers their opinion has to be an Everton fanatic.
Websters dictionary defines a fanatic as A Person whose extreme zeal, rabid enthusiasm and support goes beyond what is reasonable. When it comes to Everton that defines me to a T. and I have been like that for eighty years.
Fanatics often stray from reality and that is the reason why the original topic is often forgotten and totally ignored so that Toffee Webbers, like me, can vent and tell all the other fanatics why Everton are the best and worst and luckiest and unluckiest team in the world. A very average coach is by far the worst ever until we beat West Ham 2-0. Then he may be okay or he may still be the worst. At best or at worst Silva is basically average until he wins five or six in a row then once more we have an outstanding coach.
How do I know that I am an irrational fanatical Evertonian. Because my wife, my kids, my grandchildren and anyone else who has seen me when we lose or win can tell you. I even tell them that Everton have been in the top level for 119 years. Far more that any other team. They really do not care. They also don't care that Digne likes Silva. Right now calmness reigns because we beat West Ham 2-0. What a wonderful team I support.
63 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:47:19
Though honestly, it does seem like some actually even want them to fail! Just so the "I told you so's" can call for his head again.
To the cast of Grumpy Old Men, let's say this past wknd becomes the outlier and we go on to be average at best, or potentially worse, and Silva DOES get the sack. I have 2 questions in that case:
1) Who would you hire as an 'interim' manager?
2) Do you feel us hiring our 5th manager in 6 years will help, or hurt our prospects beyond May 2020?
64 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:01
I think most people in the ground got behind the team and created a good atmosphere because they knew the team needed their support in a must win game.
In my opinion it wasnt meant particularly as a show of support to the manager but simply the fans knowing the club needed them on Saturday.
65 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:18
Meanwhile in Genk our neighbours live up to their Gobshites moniker Link Displaying a 'We are not racists' banner beneath another with racial connotations is a classic.
66 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:48:54
“Expect anything worthwhile to take a long time.”
Its hard to better capture something so fundamental yet so impatiently overlooked in our culture of immediacy. The myth of the overnight success is just that — a myth — as well as a reminder that our present definition of success needs retuning. The flower doesnt go from bud to blossom in one spritely burst and yet, as a culture, were disinterested in the tedium of the blossoming. But thats where all the real magic unfolds in the making of ones character and destiny.
67 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:49:56
Nothing new. And we had reasons to be cheerful in those days!
68 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:51:44
If you look at Silva's Premier League win-rate for the Blues, it's an unimpressive 38.28%, winning 18 from 47. The vast majority at home.
I think that is a fairer reflection of his career so far at Everton.
69 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:52:03
I've never seen a sub looking into any managers eyes when he's been giving instructions, but because it's Sigurdsson he gets lambasted for it.
70 Posted 23/10/2019 at 22:52:31
And who do you think the players were playing with intensity for? The folks in the Gwladys Street End, or their manager (yes, their)?
71 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:01:42
And you're right Rob, the sub shouldbe watching the pitch whilst he listens to the manager, except to look at the picture / iPad that the manager points to as to where he wants him to occupy.
Mark, David Unsworth of course. And if we sack Silva, the new manager would have Silva's side and no major transfers for some time. Brands would hire another Silva so the manager fit the players for this exact reason. So, not someone like Mourinho, Allegri or any of the other glamorous names, because they don't fit the players we have. Especially Max "3 centre back" Allegri who was sacked after winning his fifth consecutive league title because his football was so defensive and boring. That system ain't suiting our players, and Moise Kean might just hand in an immediate transfer request!
72 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:04:16
73 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:15:02
"I'm optimistic that now we seem to have put the right guys on the pitch."
After just one game?
74 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:15:31
I'm waiting for Moyes' name to be brought up.
Lastly, why do only League games count? You still have to win Cup games, or don't you? The very same people will praise Gylfi for scoring 14 "all apps" goals last year. The thing about stats is that they can be manipulated to suit a view or argument.
Did you know that 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot? *smirky grin*
75 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:17:47
The fact is most teams are vastly superior at home. None more so than Everton. Who have always been a home team. I recall a season under Harvey or Kendall were we lost 1 or 2 at home, but only won 1 or 2 away. That's just Everton, it's who we are. The years we win away, we are right up the table.
76 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:18:14
Winston Churchill once said, "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Isn't hope and optimism what being a supporter is all about?
77 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:22:44
When we lost it was because we missed something out or the new home shirt was "unlucky" and we had to leave it at home next time and wear last season's shirt because the bad luck outdid the good luck. We did some daft things but we always thought we would win.
78 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:26:11
79 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:31:11
80 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:38:55
Try singing his praises at 5:00 pm Saturday, after we go down against the mighty Brighton, currently 1 point behind us in 16th position.
And please don't tell us we're being too negative. What choices do we have after the shite that's been served up this season?
81 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:42:44
And I have to say, I don't think there is excessive cynicism or negativity in what many posters are saying (some even being 'named and shamed') in this thread.
As often happens, the lead story kinda gets hijacked. For me it's neither here nor there what Digne thinks about Silva. Given past history, it's no surprise that some roll their eyes at such utterings. The unusual aspect here is the comments follow a win when we are all accustomed to having a player put up to offer a soundbite following a defeat.
Many a poster expresses quite reasonably justifiable caution that our undeniably poor start to the season cannot be quickly erased from the memory with some barely credible revisionism offered by a couple of posters.
Digne may well be sincere in his gushing praise of the manager. The manager himself may indeed be worthy of such praise.
But the brutal facts don't lie. As 'world class' a coach Silva may be on the training ground, there is some considerable slippage 'twixt what happens at Finch Farm and on match day, be it home or away.
For whatever reason - and the players are not exempt from ciriticism in this - the team has and does fail to perform too frequently.
19 defeats from the 23 times we have conceded the opening goal in the PL and never once getting up to win is an extremely damning FACT!
A PL high of 22 goals conceded from dead ball situations under Silva is another damning FACT!
That we continue to struggle on the road under Silva further inhibits our development.
This 'world class' coach has had 100 games as Everton manager. How many games can any one recall that he made match-changing subs or tactical changes that salavaged the game for an Everton win?
By contrast, how many games can any one recall when Silva resorted to throwing on as many forwards he had available at the cost of the overall balance and effectiveness of the team from a losing position? A strategy that has not once resulted in our favour?
Of course, it is way too premature to presume Silva will radically alter the team that (finally!) performed so well v WHU, or more, anticipate another defeat on the road.
But the reverse side of that coin is to boldly presume (as some have indeed done) that we will win our next 3-4 games to further shoot up the league and pass to the last eight of the league cup.
I share the opinion of a good many in this thread expressing the discerning and reasonable view, based on 100 games and 18 months under Marco Silva, that a single win over WHU is not enough to elevate the manager to 'world class' status, or believe the proverbial corner has been turned.
That is not a cynical or negative view in my eyes, but a totally logical and rational one.
82 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:43:24
I'm always optimistic we'll get there one day. I'm lucky to have seen success back in the day.
I really doubt it will happen under Silva though he just hasn't got the midas touch of a winner IMO he's weak.
83 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:51:38
84 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:53:25
No doubt this is what he projected in the week, and that showed in the game on Saturday as that was how the team played. The week before he had not looked so relaxed or confident and frequently looked like he had not slept and looked extremely worried. The guy is a winner. He's won a lot of football matches more than half of the ones he's presided over in over 7 years. He's also won three trophies and a league more recently than Jurgen Klopp.
85 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:53:52
86 Posted 23/10/2019 at 23:56:58
By your own numbers, do you think it's acceptable that in 24 games of his 57 Everton games as our manager, only once - away to Lincoln in the League Cup this season - has the team come back to win after losing the first goal?
And that including all three clubs, PL teams under his management have conceded 46 goals from dead ball situations?
87 Posted 23/10/2019 at 00:00:43
88 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:06:26
89 Posted 23/10/2019 at 00:07:36
Well I for one agree totally with your summation of our situation over Silva's 100 or so games in charge at our beloved club.
I watch every game with optimism, and a heavy dose of blind faith, hoping that we will turn the corner, only to be left in misery for yet another weekend, kicking the proverbial dog!
These odd (good) performances have to be built upon and sustained week in week out before accolades can be showered on those concerned.
I really hope this will be that turning point.
For me the biggest disappointment has been the consistent underperformance (as far as basic effort and application is concerned) by the majority of the players throughout Silva's reign and a number of his predecessors for that matter.
The one thing an individual player does have complete control over is how much effort they put into each game.
The fact that they have not been able to put in that basic effort consistently and that Silva, and the rest of his coaching team, has failed miserably to motivate them is even more damning.
Let's see how the Brighton game unfolds. An away win, another good performance with appropriate grit displayed will ease my cynicism!
90 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:07:42
Except in something like the set pieces, which is clearly a trend that indicates poor strategy or training, or whatever. I also can't condone in the least our poor away form, or our utter failure to ever come from behind. Those things tend to be the difference between 6th and 11th more often than not.
I will still put on my smiley face and say let's see what our new players, let alone starting XI, can or might do given those scenarios, maybe they'll break those trends!
91 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:08:49
The more worrying statistic for me is this one: over half the goals conceded this season have been in the last 20 minutes. Because we concede so late, we often don't get as much of a chance to overturn the defeats.
We also win more than we lose. So where's the statistics about how often we win games when we take the lead? Genuinely, I don't have them. But I'd put good money that we have not lost many games where we score first. Under Silva, the first goal seems crucial. We are more likely to win if we score first, and obviously if we concede first we don't win.
92 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:11:39
93 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:15:52
It's easy to forget the mountainous uphill battle Silva, and Brands, have had to deal with thanks to just god awful personnel decisions and horrid spending. If this were all going on with an entire 18 wearing the shirt that were acquired by Brands, and put into Silva's system? Then we'd have a BIG problem. But it's still an island of misfit toys with relics of a bygone era (we won't even go into all the dead wages).
Does anyone think it was a coincidence that we played our best game in a long, long while when the starting XI was 7/11 Brands acquisitions? To me that's but a taste of what's to come. I remain hopeful that I'll be proven right and we can all gather 'round the campfire singing kumbaya together.
94 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:16:51
95 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:17:49
The 'here and now' of this season before the win v WHU was five defeats in eight games, four consecutively.
Applying your logic to its most absurd extreme, the only game that posters should factor into their assessment of the team's (and the manager's) performances this season is the most recent one. The rest are insignificant in what we can expect going forward.
Quaintly naive and innocent.
96 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:21:43
Steve, Silvas's team selection at the weekend will be more important than the result. How will he line up, Steve? I can guess your thoughts on this but what are Marco's?
97 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:25:03
But since I'm dumb, can you kindly explain how a different team from a different campaign with different players, matters this year? I said year, not game. Though breaking it down even further, at least explain the difference between the first 8 games and the 9th game for me. I can think of one striking difference but I want to be sure.
Yes this post is dripping with so much sarcasm you could drown in it.
98 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:26:28
Now this I wholly endorse. If he reverts to form, so to speak, I'll borrow a pitchfork from one of you and lead the cavalry escorting him out of town, as it will prove nothing more than he simply cannot learn.
Otherwise, I'll fall back on my optimism.
99 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:34:06
The respective ratio compared to never coming back to win from conceding the opening goal is not a favourable one.
Last season, leading twice at Wolves. Drew 2-2.
Away to Bournemouth, leading 2-0, drew 2-2.
Home to Southampton in the LC, leading 1-0, lost on pens.
Home Spurs, leading 1-0, stuffed 6-2.
Away to Newcastle, leading 2-0, lost 3-2.
There may be others I've missed.
100 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:41:55
We have to, just like vs West Ham, take it to Every Team, hope they've been working on set pieces and let the cards fall where they will.
101 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:43:53
2. 10 men
3. Dreadful team selection in the League Cup
4. Worst we've played under Silva at home
5. We were playing so well and I still can't believe we lost that game, we should have been out of sight.
102 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:51:50
"either ingenious hoaxers or labouring under a massive misapprehension" if you believe Everton is on an upward trajectory after the evidence of the performances we have all seen over these past decades.
Statistics, clever arguments, whatever...its pretty clear to the eye that we have a long way to go. Hopefully we will all see that golden era again.
103 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:55:05
Anyway, with Brighton he has shown himself to be unpredictable. He does like to play it out from the back. As Pellegrini does. But Pellegrini abandoned this tactic for good reason. We are the best team in the league at pressing the opposition high up the pitch. Statistics show that we've won the ball more than anyone in the opposition third.
Teams are countering our press by not playing it out from the back like West Ham did. But Burnley, Sheff Utd, and Aston Villa all showed how you can sit back and frustrate us. Bournemouth kept at it and got a decisive goal against the run of play.
If Potter lets Brighton play out from the back, I think that we can destroy them. If he's smart and plays longer passes, but with more purpose than West Ham, then we might struggle, particularly if Brighton go back to Hughton tactics and play narrow and compact and get men behind the ball. We have shown we run out of ideas, slow the play down and leave ourselves wide open on the break.
It's all about the tempo for me. If Gomes can dictate the rhythm of the game, and move the ball quickly, then we should beat Brighton, regardless of whether they let us press them. Brighton don't have a number 10 to hurt us, so Silva would be a fool to bring back Schneiderlin. Davies and Gomes would be enough to control the midfield but still help the defence if needed. We must also play Iwobi in the middle as unless Brighton are completely bonkers and go toe to toe with us, there will be no space for Sigurdsson in this game.
104 Posted 24/10/2019 at 00:56:53
Ehrm...what straw man argument have I offered?
You'll probably now call me 'pedantic', but read your post @ 90 again. You did not specify 'year' as you now claim.
Indeed, you didn't clarify what kind of time span counts in your claim that "most historical statistics hold no bearing on the here & now."
That is why, as I clearly stated in my reply to you, the 'here and now' of this season before the win v WHU was five defeats in eight games, four consecutively. A considerable body of contemporary evidence by which to evaluate both the manager's and the team's performance THIS season.
That the poor early season form replicates Silva's performances at three clubs PL over FOUR different season may not be of significance to you, but (not unreasonably) it is to others.
Very curious then that in the same post you acknowledge that "set pieces is clearly a trend that indicates poor strategy or training" and that you "can't condone in the least our poor away form, or our utter failure to ever come from behind."
Those three things you yourself condemn have been an ever-present at the three clubs and the 100 PL games over (now) four different seasons during Silva's time in England.
Oh! As for your self-acclaimed 'sarcasm' Mark, it needs some work.
You're really not very good at it.
105 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:10:35
I don't deny there were mitigating circumstances in some of those games. I merely supplied requested examples off the top of my head.
I can understand your need to justify the examples I offer, but Bournemouth were also reduced to 10 men. The manager selected the team and determined the tactics for the LC exit v the Saints. The Spurs debacle was shameful and the Newcastle defeat the worst example of Everton's Jekyll & Hyde faces we have seen in the same game under Silva.
You - and Mark, evidently - may not like it, but there is a genuine debate and questions marks that Blues express about the abilities of our manager.
I have spoken well of him when he has done well. I have questioned him when he has done less well. There is nothing cynical or negative about it.
He has a lot, LOT more to do to convince many a Blue of his qualities than the single win over WHU last weekend.
106 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:16:47
If A remained identical or constant throughout, then we would be comparing A to A. But since A hasn't remained identical or constant, then you cannot compare them. Thus, a straw man argument. And heck, then you double-down on it!
"...That the poor early season form replicates Silva's performances at three clubs PL over FOUR different season may not be of significance to you, but (not unreasonably) it is to others..." <------ straw man argument
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". -Wikipedia
For example, you using Silva's Hull City record as some sort of indication that he's not a good Everton manager. What on Earth does one have to do with the other? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Oh wait, did Hull City have the players Everton does? Did they play the same exact teams (with their exact same players) that Everton has? Is it 2019, or 2017? Time flies when you're wasting time on the internet. Even sticking to the first 9 games of 2019, the first 8 were very, very different than the 9th, in terms of personnel and strategy. Unless you disagree, in which case say so and I'll at least know where you're coming from.
The set piece problem is without a doubt a problem, and has been for Silva-led teams. To me, that's a strategy issue, not a player issue. You can put any players in there and if the strategy is poor, it's not going to matter who's executing on. You may think that's splitting hairs, I don't, it's all good no matter what.
I hope we win Saturday, COYB. Also, please tell my wife my sarcasm stinks. She'll argue with you more than I have!
107 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:19:36
108 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:20:13
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this, myself included. But if you go allllll the way back to the start of this comments section, you'll simply see that most people are negative and proactively cynical. Damning the man and team before the game as even happened? Why bother watching then, go spend a lovely Saturday with your families instead.
Steve & I and a few others are just being optimistic and hopeful that last weekend's performance finally 'clicked' for Silva and now moving forward we'll be better. Perhaps much better even!
The vast majority here just want to complain and apparently, predict the future.
109 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:23:28
110 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:26:30
111 Posted 24/10/2019 at 01:26:48
112 Posted 24/10/2019 at 02:06:24
It was only Silva who couldn't see the ball had to go forward quicker. Yes we missed Gomez but lets see how long before we go on another losing streak.
As well as we played West Ham almost equalised from another corner of all things...
113 Posted 24/10/2019 at 02:33:08
Very good that you can Google and copy-paste from Wiki, but you evidently haven't grasped what represents a genuine staw man argument.
Once again, seemingly unbeknown to you, you actually provide your own answer in your 'Philosophy for Dummies, 101'.
The constant is the same person - Marco Silva.
The further constants related to said person are the three conditions you yourself acknowledge:
1) a recurring inability to recover and win having conceded the first goal
2) a recurring inability to defend set pieces
3) a recurring inability to get wins away from Goodison Park
I haven't, therefore, put up a 'straw man' argument in replying to you on the very terms you yourself (again!) quote. I have posted the FACTS relating to Marco Silva's record as a PL manager, NOT as a means to 'refuting' your argument. Indeed, in truth you haven't offered one worthy of the name.
To continue to claim as you do that no conclusions can be drawn from this season's results prior to the WHU game because the team selections, the fixture list, the wind direction, whatever, do not correspond EXACTLY to the same dates and fixtures and weather 1-2-3 years ago is a non-sequitor. (Google being your friend, I'm sure you'll discover what that is).
Perhaps a look in the mirror and reading back your posts in this thread might also lead you to re-assess who, exactly, is putting up staw man arguments to uphold a wobbly position whilst not engaging in the powerful counters you are presented with.
I also suggest you re-read the posts you dismiss as being "negative and proactively cynical".
Are they? I see plenty expressing delight at Saturday's performance and win - even praise for the manager. But quite reasonably many also express one solitary win is not enough, that his team selection will be revealing and that there is a large body of evidence as to why some are not going all Bruce Willis Die Hard 'yippee-friggin'-ki-yay' and believing a definitive corner has been turned on a single win.
Now I'm going to settle down in front of the telly to watch the all-Brazilian Libertadores semi-final between Flamengo-Gremio.
114 Posted 24/10/2019 at 03:29:41
Lol you made a right monkey out of “Jay”
115 Posted 24/10/2019 at 04:00:38
116 Posted 24/10/2019 at 05:03:44
You don't seem to grasp the mentality of the football fan. I've never met one yet who doesn't want to be proved right. It has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism.
Many people didnt want Silva in the first place, said so at the time. Now they cant wait to kick him if it isn't going well.
The most relentless critic of Silva on here was a massive Big Sam fan (although he's tried to deny it since). He thinks fat head didnt get a fair crack of the whip and people on here treated him badly. He desperately wants Silva to end up with a worse record than the Night King. . To be proved right.
Were all guilty of a little confirmation bias Steve. Sitting on the other side of the house doesn't make you more optimistic. You nailed your colors to the Silva mast so emphatically, you feel compelled to fight his corner. Sometimes like a mother protecting her children.
Silva is not like you. he never will be. He is only here because we pay him a fortune.
Dont take it so much to heart when he is criticised - Even if that criticism appears unfair.
We are footy fans, you can switch us on and off like a bedside lamp
117 Posted 24/10/2019 at 05:17:20
When I played for Bangor in the seventies. Win Percentage was my strike partner.
A cursory scan through all the fanboy websites will prove he had the best stats in the Welsh league, but he never did play for his country.
You are right though. Statistically speaking; Big Win was king,
118 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:02:12
119 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:21:16
People are entitled to express their opinion from what theyve seen so far on whether he will be a success or not without being labelled negative and pessimistic.
Exactly the same way with the players. I personally dont think DCL is good enough. That doesnt mean I constantly criticise the young players at the match or dont desperately want DCL to prove me wrong its just a personal opinion from watching the games.
120 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:29:16
121 Posted 24/10/2019 at 07:47:46
122 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:13:40
I don't believe Silva is going to get us anywhere and, now that he pretty much has his own players on the pitch, I would expect us to have more points on the board.
So far, I am seeing nothing that suggests we are going to be anything but a mid-table team. Just my opinion at the present time, but I can tell you honestly I would love to be proven wrong and watch a Silva team go on and win something. I can't see it at the moment and couldn't care less about stats that prove nothing.
The adage ‘the table doesn't lie' is never more true than at the moment. Brighton is a six-pointer. If we lose, we are right in the relegation mix. Win and we start to pull away.
123 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:34:31
In my opinion, this would generate a better conversation.
124 Posted 24/10/2019 at 08:40:13
But once he was hired, I backed him. Together with Brands, he built up a talented young squad, in patches played good football and showed he could get results against the Sky Six. His performance this season has been worse, in terms of team selection, tactics, formation, substitutions and preparation.
Silvas stubbornness in not changing his zonal marking plan when it plainly doesnt work (due to him/players/who cares what?) is infuriating. But, he also lost his two best players in Zouma and Gueye, did not get a centre half and like every other Everton manager until the end of time did not get a top striker to replace Lukaku. I also cant stand the idea of sacking yet another manager, paying him multi-millions in compensation when calmness and patience might result in success (HK1 as an example).
So his coat is on a shaky hook for me and he had better improve his performance and lose the stubbornness/stupidity that did for Martinez and Koeman. He is going to be judged on a game by game basis because that is frankly all he has earned.
125 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:08:32
Anyone who thinks playing 2 DMs helps the team is not world class.
Or playing a one in eight striker
126 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:15:40
127 Posted 24/10/2019 at 09:58:11
“His coat is on a shaky hook” - thats not a phrase I have seen or heard previously but its perfect.
128 Posted 24/10/2019 at 10:04:34
For years it has been one step forward two steps back. Against West Ham it was one small step forward. To prove he is a good manager wont come from midweek PR platitudes, it will come from hard proof. Starting on Saturday against Brighton.
Proof for me is when Marco can start putting winning teams out pro-actively rather than waiting until the horse has bolted and then making changes we all can see are necessary, under duress.
129 Posted 24/10/2019 at 11:40:17
In the lead up to the West Ham game, with a reasonable set of fixtures, we accumulated 7 points from 8 games, loosing the last 4 on the bounce.
Put another way 7 points from just over 20% of the season. If you do a simple sum thats heading for less than 35 points.
Whatever way I look at it, that is relegation form.
I am made up we won on Saturday and I was chuffed with the way the players went about their work. We need more of the same this week and through November because from the 1st to 21st December we have to play:
Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea, United & Arsenal.
I wont be burying my head in the sand.
130 Posted 24/10/2019 at 11:51:13
131 Posted 24/10/2019 at 12:40:53
132 Posted 24/10/2019 at 12:50:42
Steve @124. You make some excellent points save one. Why would a manager who's "regularly playing in the CL" (paraphrasing here) come to EFC? I have this debate with another mate of mine all the time. It's a snap-your-fingers magic trick point of view, and with all due respect, rather naive.
Yes, yes we all know Everton has a long, storied history and is a "big, elite club." I hate to break it to you like this, but no we're not. Historically, sure. In the age of modern football (let's call this 1992-present)? Not even close.
Which presents the original problem. Why would a top manager come here? There are so many other clubs where success is far more easily attainable (whether or not that's down to managing in a 'lesser' league is a debate for another day). Because we've largely been average, I'd wager there is a very limited talent pool we have access to. Which puts us where we are today, being forced to roll the dice on an unproven and hope they jump up the ladder, taking us with them.
Even that fella across the way, loathe as I am to type these words, needed Dortmund to take a chance on him (2 years after he got Mainz relegated, incidentally). Now look where he is. Great managers aren't born, they're built.
So which established, European cup playing manager would come to our little fixer-upper?
Laurie 129/130, go read the debate between Mr. Jay and me, you'll get a kick out of it I'd imagine.
2 more days 'til matchday you lot! COYB
133 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:01:32
Apparently, according to statistics, the number of people carrying knives has rocketed in the last two years. Terrible!
This rise in numbers coincides with the inclusion of Butchers in the people surveyed.
Funny things statistics. Not always what they appear.
134 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:04:57
135 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:06:41
As for getting teams relegated, not only did Klopp oversee Mainz' relegation (there for the full season too) but Rafa Benitez oversaw the relegation of Newcastle Utd (not there for the full season though), but he also was in charge of Extremadura who he got promoted and then relegated. Antonio Conte went down with Arezzo being in charge for most of the season (he was in charge, sacked midseason, then brought back in the spring and relegated and sacked again). Loads of top managers have been relegated.
Fonseca is at Roma now. He's done alright, not bad, not particularly well. Roma have been in the Champions League in recent years and expect top 4. He had them in 6th, but I think that was reasonable considering their resources, as the only club above them who have less resources is the excellent Atalanta who we know all about. This season they're still sat 6th, expecting top 4 but bemoaning an injury crisis. Fonseca does not enjoy universal backing and the natives are a little restless but not quite baying for his blood.
Laurie, nope, I never said Silva was better than Catterick. I merely pointed out that two much maligned Everton managers, namely Martinez and Silva, have the 3rd and 4th best win ratios of any Everton manager ever, and better than Catterick. My point is not that they are obviously then the 3rd or 4th best managers we have ever had, it is that they are not the worst.
I think Silva should be given more time to prove himself to you. He should also be cut more slack after a win. People seem desperate for him to fail and just dismiss anything he does right.
Dave Abrahams, if you read this, I would like your view on a matter. It occurred to me that Tom Davies might have just had his best game in an Everton shirt. He played a deep role in a 4231. He was alongside a midfielder whose strengths lie in his ability with the ball, particularly his passing. So this made me think back to his Youth team days. Liam Walsh is no Gomes of course, but his strengths at u18 level made him excel in a lot of the areas where Gomes similarly excels. In the past Davies has played alongside Schneiderlin and Gueye. So, was this the first time we were able to see the real Tom Davies, with a partner whose game suits his own and so was able to bring out the very best in him, and would a prolonged period of these two playing together allow Tom Davies to develop in the way we all hoped he would when he was only playing for the u18s?
136 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:17:05
And I hope you're dead on about Davies. The subtle shift in what was asked of him (move the ball quickly, use his energy to take the ball away, etc.) really showed what he can do in the right lineup with the right pairing/partnership. I don't think it's a coincidence that he didn't give the ball away, was 2nd only to Gomes in dispossessing the opponent (13), and led the squad with an 85% pass completion rate.
Now if he could just finish sitters...
137 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:24:39
It may come as something of a surprise to you that his Flamengo manager and namesake Jorge Jesus is handling him very astutely.
For about the last 20 games now, since August, Reinier has mostly sat on the bench, had a couple of starts and full 90 minutes, but mostly gets 20-30 minutes here and there.
In total, he has appeared in 7 league games (417 minutes in total) and got 20 minutes in a Libertadores game. He has certainly been productive, scoring 3 league goals and getting two assists.
He scored a 90th minute winner away to Fortaleza two games ago and in their last league game, within minutes of them both coming on in the last half hour, he set up the goal for the other sub as Flamengo saw off city rivals, Richarlison's old club, Fluminese, 2-0.
Highlights Fortaleza v Flamengo (he scores at the death with a good header) - Link
Highlights Flamengo v Fluminese (he rolls the ball into the goalscorer who then works the position to score the 2nd, about 2:50m into the video).
Reinier did not get on the pitch last night as Flamengo absolutely swamped Gremio 5-0 in the second leg of their Libertadores semi-final. Gabigol got two. Flamengo will now meet last year's winners River Plate who saw off their bitter rivals in the other semi Tuesday night. The Libertadores is now a one-game final and is in Chile late November.
Jorge Jesus after a rocky start on moving from Portugal to Brazil is now a near demi-god. 11 points clear at the top of Serie A, he has also guided them to their first Libertadores final in 35 years.
On another note, have you seen the latest training video from Finch Farm? Judging from the footage Silva will have a selection dilemma this weekend as all the missing players from the WHU looked in fine fettle - Delph, Coleman, Schneiderlin. Yerry Mina looked fine also. Interesting to see the likes of Anthony Gordon, Lewis Gibson and Morgan Feeney training with the 1st team.
138 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:25:41
139 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:30:51
140 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:34:22
141 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:34:47
142 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:37:09
Everton have been linked with Reinier again.
Only this time, the Blues chances of landing the Brazilian wonderkid appear even slimmer.
Marco Silvas side were first linked with the 17-year-old in the summer with some reports even claiming they had a bid rejected for his services.
And while Everton are said to still be keen on him, journalist Jorge Nicola, cited by Sport Witness, claims he is set to sign a new contract with Flamengo that would run until 2024 and have a €70m release clause.
143 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:37:43
Ron, I got the stats for games played off a couple of sites, including transfermarkt.com and worked out the win ratios for myself as they wouldn't do it for me.
144 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:46:54
145 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:49:21
146 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:52:04
147 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:55:19
Thanks for bringing that site to my attention, I shall add that one to my favourites.
Transfermarkt.com is very accurate for the present day stuff, and they differ on Silva's record:
P54 W23 D10 L21 F80 A71 P79 PPG 1.46
Everton Results have:
P53 W22 D11 L20 F76 A67 P% 48.4 (which is PPG divided by 3 and multiplied by 100)
I would have thought they might have recorded the Southampton LC game differently, is it a draw or is it a loss because of penalties? I'd go with the latter, but there is the matter of the 4 goal difference in the goals scored and goals conceded column.
Soccerbase go with the Everton Results Stats, but do not include goals scored or conceded.
Toffeeweb only have his stats for 46 games!
148 Posted 24/10/2019 at 13:59:57
As I have mentioned on here several times, before Koeman was appointed Diego Simeone's agent contacted Everton to understand more about Moshiri's 'project' for the club. If we pay top dollar and sell the ambition of the club we'll get a top manager. If we level down our ambitions we'll be as crap as the next 25 years as well. Come on chap, show a bit more ambition!
149 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:02:52
150 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:13:42
Too many stats Steve. They've affected your humour gland.
151 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:18:58
Everton paid Koeman a £6m a year salary. Allardyce might have walked away with more than £10m, but he was also on around £6m a year. Silva is on between £3m and £4m a year. Jose Mourinho earned £25m a season at Man Utd. Guardiola gets £12m to £13m a year at Man City.
Our financial capabilities are grossly exaggerated on here. We cannot afford Mourinho, even if his base salary is down to £12m a season and it turns out that that £25m a year is on the basis of his contract being paid in full for half the time it was meant to last.
If we offer £12m a year, so Guardiola level wages, and get in a coach of that level. Would we really just say go on coach the players you have? Or would we have to spend another £300m to bring in the players the coach would want. Now FFP would not allow this, but forgetting that, who is going to pay for this? Moshiri? What if he does not want to? What if he likes Silva and he wants to give him time? Do we force Moshiri to sack his man, and then to cough up £300m?
152 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:27:39
He uses statistics like a drunken man uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination. — Andrew Lang
153 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:32:03
154 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:34:40
Money and ambition is nice and all but when the recent factual history of our club only proves out that we apparently want to win now - at least our supporters do - and managers are only given maybe 2 years to do so, again I ask, why would they? Silva, at ~15 months, has actually had the longest reign under Moshiri.
How do you have ambition if you have to win immediately?
Let me fine-tune my question (that you didn't answer); which manager or managers did you have in mind that could take us from midtable to top 4 in under 2 years?
155 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:47:02
And regarding Simeone, there were certainly rumors that we were interested in him, but never the slightest evidence that the interest was mutual.
But Mark #136, geez, ease up on young Tom. It was his first real chance in more than two years, after all!
156 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:49:48
157 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:51:06
158 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:57:28
I also do not believe our problems are all of his making.
Our main problem has been scoring goals when we dominate possession and conceding stupid goals from set pieces.
Some of that has been down to tactics and team selection but even against a poor West Ham team we struggled to score and put the game to bed until Sigurdson came on.
For me we do not have nearly enough goalscorers in the squad. Take Siggy and Richy out and who else would you bet on to score us goals.
It also looks like the injury jinx is gonna hit us again with Mina being reported as being out for a few weeks.
Brighton away is the litmus test for me.They will be up for this at home and although they are one of the lesser teams will be tough opposition.
Win this and it will be a little more convincing.
159 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:58:04
160 Posted 24/10/2019 at 14:58:18
I feel that this subject can be ambiguous, that's why I tend to go to the match with an open mind. I don't think of statistics etc, because the games I attend are played and refereed by mortals. I suppose in a hypocritical sort of way I do pay attention to one stat, the one that shows the result at the end of the game.
161 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:01:19
162 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:06:05
163 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:13:56
That's why I've always been skeptical about the whole Reinier Jesus to Everton story since it first broke.
Brazilian clubs are not mugs. Most are hugely dependent on selling their young talent to Europe at inflated prices. It is widely reported in Brazil that his current contract, which expires at the end of 2020, already has a €70 million release clause, way above the €40 million Everton allegedly offered.
Flamengo is THE biggest club nationwide in Brazil. They know what they've got in Reinier Jesus and even if their ever was a window of opportunity for Everton to steal him through, I rather think that window is now shuttered and bolted.
At the time of Everton's reported interest in the lad, the quoted €40 million for a 17-year-old yet to play a single minute of senior football just didn't make sense to me. Maybe one day we can play the market and take a punt like Real Madrid and City did in paying top dollar for Brazilian teenagers as they did to land Viniscius Jnr and City's own Jesus, but that day still seems a long way off for Everton I would suggest.
Now he is getting game time in the first team (and he doesn't turn 18 until January) AND delivering the goods, Flamengo has already opened negotiations with him to extend his existing contract to beyond 2020. You can only believe they will also raise the value of his release clause even more.
Just doesn't look a goer to me Rob and never has.
Give me Gabigol for (allegedly) a third of RJ's price. His (third!) loan in as many years (this year with Flamengo) ends in December, perfectly timed for the January transfer window. Milan want rid for anything between €20-30. He would be a steal. He is hot-hot-hot and would slot right into the current Everton team and give us goals, I'm certain.
164 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:17:39
I have no idea who Ford Kiernan or Gary Hemphill are, nor what the quote was, so no harm done.
165 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:20:35
166 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:24:49
pointless, just pointless.
167 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:26:06
As for no one else scoring, it's hard to score from the bench! Maybe the players we saw against WHU if given an extended look, will also find their scoring touch. But we won't know unless we try, and we as supporters give them a chance in our eyes.
This whole "do it instantly or else" mindset is the same as our overall lack of patience with managers and gets us nowhere.
I do agree with you about Brighton away being a huge litmus test for us.
168 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:27:30
169 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:30:24
170 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:35:31
The german fella - Ham Cherfan, or how about Kaii Bard Tos-Phot
really winds me up- if you know so much, name someone shit.
171 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:37:33
Basically it was a cult TV show, set in a fictional area of Glasgow called Craiglang, in which they played two pensioners, Jack and Victor who resided in a multi-story block, next door to each other.
A very funny show and well worth watching in my humble, but slightly biased opinion, I'm sure you would enjoy it John.
172 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:38:16
Same team should start, barring injuries. Selection should be on merit and form, therefore no reason to change the 11. If Silva does, he's a dope.
173 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:43:03
Derek, not biased at all. Still Game was/is a classic. Loved it from day one when I used to watch it with my Jock mates when "away" and then watched it at home on my return. What made it better was that my missus couldn't understand a word which I found hilarious as it just sounded to me like my mates having a blether!
174 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:43:49
175 Posted 24/10/2019 at 15:46:31
You missed out that very classy German midfielder Gert T'Phukk.
176 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:01:09
It isn't an impossible task to attract a top manager. Target your preferred candidate, show relentless determination, sell the ambition of the club and back it with a hugely competitve package. As for the contention that we cannot afford it, simply calculate how much we spent to terminate the contracts of Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce. We had to pay £10 million alone to buy out Koeman's contract, so it is not a money issue.
Lack of ambition is the issue. It was endemic in the club under Kenwright and supporters rightly despise him for it. However, we all come on here to relentlessly criticise the lack of progression, success and ambition in the club, but then refuse ourselves to accept that we have the ability or right to do any better. Curious isn't it? Anyway, I am for sticking with Silva a bit longer.
By the way, I love your enthusiasm at a distance for the club.
177 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:01:58
178 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:11:50
He told my son that he HAD instructed his agent to approach Everton as he was impressed by the ambition of the club. At the time, I think he was frustrated that Athletico Madrid were not being ambitious in the transfer market but they promised him a change and boy did they deliver.
Look he might have just been polite as apparently he came across as a nice guy! But there we are.
179 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:12:46
Her'es a funny one for ya. Two gobshites travelled to Ghent instead of Genk for their CL match last night. Fucking dullards!
Mind you know they know how it must feel for the majority of their fans travelling for their home games lol!
180 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:13:11
181 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:15:32
182 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:16:14
I have seen that programme quite a few times, extremely funny, but I didn't know the full names of the characters.
183 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:21:25
The two dumbos were from Leicester and London. So, a couple of local lads, eh? (by their standards)
184 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:22:53
So what your saying is Marco silva is a one trick pony who can only set the team up to play one way. He wont change tactics to cope with the long pass ( ball tactic ) and we cant cope with it when teams do play that way
185 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:28:59
Haha that makes it even funnier Ray!
186 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:29:24
Seriously, it's good to know that the interest was genuine. I always come from a place of skepticism when I hear of big names being interested in either managing or playing for Everton -- figure it's either a ploy or just somebody trying to generate some buzz for their blog. Glad to be shown wrong in this case... although I probably would have injured myself attempting backflips if Simeone had actually come to us. I consider him the single best motivational manager on the planet.
Brian and Paul, thanks for your continuing linguistic educational efforts towards us Colonials. My vocabulary appreciates it.
187 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:30:23
188 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:34:01
189 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:35:44
Steve @176 work schmerk, we have important things to discuss here :-)
I'd love an established, winning-attitude and maybe even proven manager! In direct contrast to all my optimism that we've hopefully turned a corner this season, I'm equally pessimistic over our prospects at doing so. I'm a riddle inside a puzzle trapped within an enigma haha. And thanks, since I can't go to the matches and cry/rejoice with the locals in a pub, this is all I can do. Be obsessed from afar. One day though!
190 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:37:56
I cheers you all, even the ones who are blatantly wrong ;-)
191 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:38:03
192 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:39:28
193 Posted 24/10/2019 at 16:46:12
Your Simeone story makes sense to me. Simeone for years seemed to be linked with "big" prem clubs but for some reason or other (his style of play/perception he is happy where he is) his name seems to have slipped off the radar. From the outside looking in there was a media driven perception that Moshiri would bank roll Everton a la Man City. I could see that piquing his interest due to the financial glass ceiling at Athletico.
194 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:02:27
And I love your light touch of irony when you say that "everyone is polite."
Oh, wait, did you actually mean that??
195 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:34:35
196 Posted 24/10/2019 at 17:58:16
A perfect example of that wonderful gift which I'm sure is exclusive to Scots.
Your never quite sure whether you will die of embarrassment or laughter
197 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:02:00
I was serious, but for context, you should read the forums at GrandOldTeam. This place is Disneyland with no lines by comparison!
Only they're all in their 20's. Whippersnappers
198 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:03:43
199 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:07:53
Not my kind of betting race but then, I've already got a vested interest.
200 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:26:53
Best watched, as the winner of this will probably be the one who makes the smoother transition to the bigger obstacles. 11/8 fair reflection of his chances.
Beat this fella and you'll be dreaming of coming back suited and booted in March.
201 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:36:43
I always say the proof of the pudding is in the eating so at this stage I will confidently say with the exception of Anthony Gordon who hasnt had a chance at this level yet that nobody I have seen with the exception of Kean and Richy will out score Siggy and BTW he only scored 3 pens last year so thats 10 open play goals now if only another member of the team bar Richy can score the same we will be going places.
202 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:41:36
203 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:42:36
Id love to know if the board actually have shown a crumb of ambition and approached a Mourinho, Allegri, Simeone, Nagelsman I suspect not. Well end up sacking Silva and appointing Howe, the English Martinez/Silva and the circus will continue
204 Posted 24/10/2019 at 18:53:25
We are also the club that had David Moyes as manager for 11 bloody years.
205 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:13:14
The red echo reporting that Monaco CANNOT recall Sidibe in january, amid interest from AC Milan, and we definitely have first option to buy him next summer, assuming of course, that he wants to make his move permanent. Would like to see him get an extended run in the team now.
206 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:23:55
207 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:25:17
I'm still not sure how you can confidently state that no one else can score semi-consistently when we've barely seen most of them start, let alone play. Except Gordon, who's never played a PL game in his life? That's crazy talk, my friend. One thing we as supporters are very, very bad at is predicting the future. I'll just let things unfold, and will also say mea culpa if I'm proven wrong. I'm plain awful at science and it's been many a year since I took any level of academia on the subject, but I do remember the differences between theory, proof, and fact (or evidence). Right now we're all bandying about theories without proof.
Gary @203/206 we had a round and round discussion re: our ability to attract "top 6" quality managers, so I'd encourage you to read probably the 50 posts above yours. In sum, why would such a manager come to Everton, and who do you have in mind? Mourinho is not being realistic, neither is Allegri. I mentioned above that great managers aren't born, they're made. Every single great manager today started somewhere, didn't they?
You say small team mentality is holding us back. I'd posit that many fans have big club mentality when we haven't been in 25 years.
208 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:29:41
Sidibe is here on loan, we have the option to buy (at what looks to be a paltry £12m no less). That's it, good for us if he pans out!
209 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:44:27
210 Posted 24/10/2019 at 19:53:53
Regarding the loan, both Fox Sports Italy and Tuttosport published an Andrea Bracco article on October 15 to the effect that Monaco could recall Sidibe in January and sell him to Milan. Bracco is a longtime blogger and a reliable source on transfer stories involving La Liga, Serie A and Argentina. We don't know the terms of the loan, but it's possible there are exit clauses. Perhaps it would involve Monaco either refunding the €2.5m loan fee we paid for Sidibe and pulling him back, or giving us the option of topping Milan's bid -- which presumably would be higher than our buy option.
Of course there may be nothing to it as the Echo says, but I'm not writing off this particular rumor. Bracco is pretty credible.
211 Posted 24/10/2019 at 20:13:37
It's a year out of date, but presumably mostly the same. No mention of Bracco but Tuttosport is a tier 4 reliability site, which equates to "Not to be trusted at all. These companies make money out of ensuring that you read them and they will make up anything to get you to harness advertising revenue."
They don't discount individuals either; ex. the TImes doesn't rate at all, but Paul Joyce is tier 1 (for Everton/Liverpool). I just don't put any stock in most of the Italian sources, unless it's intra-Italy to a degree. Just something I thought might be relevant.
212 Posted 24/10/2019 at 20:34:04
You're right mate Two Doors Down is excrutiating comedy. Pure class!
213 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:12:02
214 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:15:33
215 Posted 24/10/2019 at 21:25:50
216 Posted 24/10/2019 at 22:45:00
Not familiar with Paul Joyce... do you agree with the site's rating?
217 Posted 24/10/2019 at 22:57:21
I didnt need him to, but Ron Marr # 146 has put that one to bed.
Steve, I sincerely hope that you are right about Marco Silva but as I have said previously, I think he will let you down.
Mark # 132 - If you want to have a debate with anyone on ToffeeWeb Jay Wood will always accommodate you. He is very good at it. I suspect like me he is an optimist but from what I have read, doesnt let that get in the way of his judgement.
I needed that win on Saturday because our performance prior to the West Ham game had put a severe dent in my optimistic outlook on all things Everton. I am looking forward to the Brighton game with a glimmer of hope but Marco has a lot of work to do to convince this particular Evertonian that he can deliver the stability we need over the next three years that will provide the platform to get us into the new stadium.
218 Posted 24/10/2019 at 23:44:28
So far I've found that none of them are great but what I have noticed is that when 2-3 decent sources all pick up on something it's usually bang on. For example, it was the most reputable French news transfer source + Joyce weighing in, that first brought Sidibe to my attention. But they miss too. Once the player holds up the new shirt, then I'm sure hahaha
Laurie, we're all in this together, perhaps collectively we can will them to win?
219 Posted 25/10/2019 at 02:03:12
From interviews so far, I assume Kean doesn't speak much English yet. I'd also assume he doesn't speak Portuguese. The amount of ways Silva and he are able to communicate is reduced by this unless Silva can speak Italian, which is admittedly a much easier language to learn than the other Latin-based languages. I'd assume that Digne, being French, is probably adept at Italian enough to get a message across, or perhaps Kean speaks French as well. All this is just based on cultural assumptions, but certainly isn't irrelevant when judging how much improvement team cohesion needs.
I know that teams employ translators for such situations, but, having worked with a rugby team with guys who couldn't speak common languages and having another guy stand there translating everything you say before doing a drill or team run, it does have an impact and obviously things are often lost in translation. I actually read once that Arsene Wenger eventually just had a French-speaking dressing room and players that weren't Francophones had to use translators. Could be bulshit, but if it's true, that, to me, is fascinating.
220 Posted 25/10/2019 at 07:24:41
221 Posted 25/10/2019 at 08:13:30
222 Posted 25/10/2019 at 08:46:35
223 Posted 25/10/2019 at 14:46:19
224 Posted 25/10/2019 at 17:55:16
Who the fuck Knew ?????????????
Credit where credit is due.
225 Posted 25/10/2019 at 17:55:43
226 Posted 25/10/2019 at 18:04:24
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