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2 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:28:15
One of the best days of the year when everyone starts on equal teams and fans can dream of glory (unless you follow Bolton or Bury, maybe...).
An expected line up, going with the known, with some new boys on the bench.
Give us a show, Everton.
3 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:28:41
4 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:30:10
5 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:31:11
I think we've got enough to make this our first 3 points.
Praying for some decent joined-up football.
6 Posted 10/08/2019 at 14:38:40
8 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:03:28
9 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:16:45
Let's hope Zaha doesn't have any bearing on the result...
10 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:37:54
11 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:53:05
12 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:55:08
I'd drag Sigurdsson off and give Kean 45 mins up top in a 4-4-2.
They are a below-average team and we are making hard work of this despite the weather.
Pity Gomes is injured because I thought Morgan was fairly useless.
Our full backs the only stand-out players so far.
13 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:59:44
Patience with Kean. He's only ever been a sub up until now. You can't expect him to suddenly be a starter. He's not trained enough. He needs easing in. Last thing we need is for him to pick up a knock. We've already lost Gomes.
14 Posted 10/08/2019 at 15:59:53
That said, Siggy should have given us the lead on 2 minutes. He has been very poor in possession with his passing.
Good to see the defence defending with a high line. Mina has been outstanding. Coleman and Digne getting forward well. Gomes and Bernard playing better than they had pre-season. Pity Gomes has gone off, but an early chance to see what Gbamin can do.
Playing with the (swirling) wind in the second half. Will that benefit us or not?
15 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:00:18
16 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:12:57
Coming on at half-time.. .isn't starting.
17 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:36:38
He's been poor second half as well. Gbamin is well off the pace too. Missed Gomes badly.
18 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:42:24
19 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:47:17
20 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:08
Now we are struggling for the Watford game when we will be missing Delph, Gomes and now Schneiderlin. Anyone know were Baningime is?
21 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:31
I will need more time before I can improve on that!
22 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:57:54
Instead, it's business as usual, Silva too frightened and small-minded to make a real statement by blooding his new stars and relying instead on those who flatter to deceive in Sigurdsson and Calvert-Lewin.
23 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:58:29
Baptism of fire for Gbamin. Kept getting dispossessed and will take a while to adjust. Unfortunately we don't have a while... with Gomes, Morgan and Delph out.
Pretty forgetable stuff from Everton.
24 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:58:43
25 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:59:06
Gomes was great til he got crocked. We look threadbare in midfield now with him probably out Gbamin seemingly a long way from being ready, and Schneiderlin suspended but a liability anyway.
I feel for Marco actually.
26 Posted 10/08/2019 at 16:59:26
27 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:01:08
28 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:02:02
Same as always, small-time thinking gets small-time results and final league placings!
29 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:02:07
30 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:04:42
Mind you, I always go in to games at Palace optimistic... then watch a terrible game in shitty conditions. You'd think I'd learn by now. Terrible place to play football.
Schneiderlin. Had we won, and he didn't get sent off, there would have been people on here claiming he did the job of an unsung hero. He isn't an unsung hero, he's a complete waste of space. Offers nothing. Cruises through good performances. Cruises through bad performances. He doesn't influence our performance one bit.
31 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:05:08
32 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:06:57
33 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:01
ps: I forgot to mention Sigurdsson... sez it all.
34 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:50
Actually thought Gbamin's passing looked pretty sharp - he clearly wasn't ready for the physicality of the Premier League, but I expect he'll adjust quickly.
On the plus side, for all the hand-wringing, the defense looked very good throughout. Holding your nerve when you go down a man on the road and the crowd is fired up is nothing to sneeze at.
35 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:07:57
Analyze this all you want. The bottom line is until we start winning games such as these, we're 7th / 8th at best.
It's not good enough.
Sigurdsson should be sat next game. When you play poorly, you should not just waltz back into the side. You need to earn your place in the lineup.
Until Silva shows the ruthlessness top Clubs and managers do, we'll wallow in this mediocrity.
36 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:08:50
37 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:09:24
We started really well but you have to take the chances.
Coleman and Sigurdsson should have scored. Even against 10 men, Palace didn't threaten. Their skipper was lucky to stay on.
On a positive note, Mina and Keane looked good. In fact, the whole defence was good.
38 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:09:27
Gomes going off was a massive blow. Sigurdsson was the one to flag up for me. We bought him for games like this, where stubborn sides need breaking down and unlocking with a bit of magic... he was woeful and looked totally off the pace.
39 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:10:34
The guy is so weak mentally. He gets wound up and does what you want him not to do. It's like he's about 12.
40 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:42
41 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:47
42 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:11:57
43 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:10
If Gomes is out for a while, I'll be really concerned though.
44 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:13
45 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:14:55
46 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:17:00
Pickford showed his class with a couple of top saves. Keane and Mina very solid at the back. Mina my MoTM. Digne and Coleman less of a threat going forward 2nd half.
Really poor in midfield. Gomes (before going off) and Schneiderlin were OK in the 1st half, but not for the first time in his Everton career Morgan's timing of a tackle is often poor and he had to go.
Gbamin was a real mixed bag. He had some very good moments and he had some truly awful ones. I presume he may be a little bit behind on pre-season as the Bundesliga starts later than the PL, but there were a couple of plays where he came away with the ball thinking the hard work was done, only for the player to get back at him and pinch his pocket. He doesn't look up to pace yet and Tom Davies must be the better shout to replace Schneiderlin during his suspension.
Siggy was awful. He scores after 2 minutes and it's a different game. He had a couple of other decent attempts which were saved or cleared off the line, but both his retention and passing were extremely poor today. Davies did OK.
Richarlison was quite peripheral. You would expect him to score with the left foot curler he fired in in the 2nd half. Bernard had his moments - certainly better than pre-season - but also some poor plays. In his hold-up play and running, DC-L cannot be faulted. It's in the penalty area he needs to be more alive with his movement in front of the defender in anticipation of the ball coming in.
Moise Kean once we went down to 10 men had little to feed on, so impossible to read anything deeper into his performance.
Today's performance and result too reminiscent of many an away performance over many of the last few seasons against opposition of this type.
Far too early to draw deep conclusions about what the season may bring, but we do need to start getting 3 points on the road more often against teams like Palace. That's part of Silva and the team's challenge.
47 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:17:05
Gbamin looks as if he needs quite a few games to adjust and Sigurdsson was very off-colour today — including a huge chance wasted when it was easier to score.
Overall, I think we played very well with the usual caveats of not being clinical enough.
48 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:18:31
49 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:21:02
50 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:22:05
I was right about Schneiderlin on reflection although he did do more than I expected, but no excuse for petulant behaviour (first yellow) he had put us in danger second half of losing altogether.
51 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:21
Away from home, point and clean sheet and, up until the sending off, the better team against a determined defence. No doubt there needs to be improvements but not a bad account of themselves.
I have an issue with the booking first time around. Player disappointed, throws a wobbler, but every player who feels they have been fouled puts in histrionics? It was a foul, so, ref, just talk to the player. It's the first game of the season!!
Anyway, give it a couple more games and let's judge the strength of the team. Mina looked good, Bernard looked like he can do a good job. Delphi fit and Iwobi to add some more physicality to the front line and there should be better results.
Zaha, as always, looked good, and I can't help but wonder if my initial thoughts on not wanting him were wrong, but he hardly illuminated his opportunity to show us what we are missing.
One away game down, let's see what the team can do at home with the full support of Goodison Park behind them.
52 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:30
I hope the Gomes injury isn't too serious because I thought he looked well up for it. Not sure what the situation is regarding Delph's injury, I am not a Delph fan, but he may be needed next week. Iwobi will also be available and, as he had virtually a full pre-season with the Gooners, he should be good to go against Watford.
So, disappointed not to get the win, but not too distraught yet. I still think we should at least take a look at Bernard in the middle too, he certainly couldn't do any worse than Sigurdsson did today anyway. . .
53 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:51
We seem to specialise in players being sent off, I don't know what stats are (I've tried) but it seems plenty.
54 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:24:54
All the defenders played well and Mina was cool calm and collected. It is important to remember that he is still only 24 and still not fully attuned to the challenges of the Premier League. Gbamin did not look at ease, but it is still far too early to make any sensible judgements, although George (@31) seems to have already decided on his tone for the season.
55 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:27:52
56 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:27:58
Away form is our Achilles heel, too many winnable fixtures end up as frustrating draws, it's been the same since Martinez's first season of 2013-14.
58 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:30:59
59 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:32:43
60 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:35:38
61 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:42:50
After the sending off, I was happy we held on to one point. Early days, the new players obviously will need time to get accustomed to the pace of the Premier League, it seems though we are always slow starting, never ready to compete from the off. As Jay Wood states, that early miss from Sigurdsson could have set us up for a good start to the season.
62 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:21
I predict that this will be again a season of rebuilding. Anywhere between 7th and 10th I reckon, unless a couple of Iwobi, Kean, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, or Bernard explode on to the scene.
63 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:35
The lack of desire to win these games is like a disease at this club. It's as if no-one at the club cares less if we win, lose or draw. We go out of every cup at the first hurdle and the hierarchy just shrugs their shoulders. The lack of standards is a fucking disgrace.
By the way, does anyone know when the law was passed that forbids us playing with two strikers? I can't even remember when we last did, was it the Yak & AJ about 10 years ago?
64 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:40
Hopefully Kean and Iwobi can do well. Schneiderlin – I hope he goes as he offers nothing.
One last thing, how did Milojeviic stay on the pitch? The ref missed a blatant shirt pull and let him have at least 10 fouls with one booking.
65 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:44:59
66 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:45:39
Also, it's going to take a while for the new guys to get up to speed, so give them break and stop putting them down so much.
67 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:46:38
68 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:49:49
69 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:55:42
The above will inevitably result in a slow poor start.
Onwards and upwards we hope? .
70 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:57:04
The first few weeks of the season always seem to take a while for most teams to get up to speed. Sure, City look great but we all know why, and Liverpool too. But they played Norwich and knew they had to make a statement for city.
Watford got smashed 3-0. At home. By Brighton. I had Brighton down for relegation and most neutrals have Watford right behind us.
We drew in the capital, repeating the result from last season. It's no great disappointment. I'll always take a draw in London, particularly on the first day of the season without being able to play any of our new players.
We will get better. We have to. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and don't let the footy get you down.
71 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:59:18
72 Posted 10/08/2019 at 17:59:58
They're mediocre... and we didn't look much better.
Stop making excuses.
74 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:06:26
First half we were solid, neat and toothless. Upfront, we're like a jigsaw puzzle with the wrong pieces.
I'd start Iwobi and Kean next week. They're both needed.
The back four looked solid, my joint Man of the Match goes to Keane & Mina.
The draw didn't surprise me, but these are the games we need to be winning. A bit underwhelming; could have been worse, plenty to look forward to.
75 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:07:14
Calvert-Lewin again wasn't getting his runs right, moving behind the defender instead of across him. It was interesting to see that Kean was moving, and taking defenders with him, before others saw the obvious pass even though the pass didn't eventuate although at times the idea of "pressing" looked as though it is not something they do a lot of at Juve or the Azzure.
Mina and Keane had good games without coming under any serious pressure until Zaha came on and Pickford again showed his value.
Up front, we need to show more creativity and perhaps a lot more first-time efforts when the chance arise. While they were only friendlies, the same problem was seen then.
Still, we can boast we maintained our unbeaten record.
76 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:09:02
There needs to be some patience and knee-jerk reactions calling players of our team fit to burn, who are young and have just joined us, are not helpful and are not supportive.
Let's get behind these boys and make them feel amazing, not rubbish them after 20 minutes.
Come on You Blues – Keep on Keeping on.
77 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:09:37
Palace will beat better sides at home than us this season. That's for sure. Meantime, Spurs are losing against Villa.
78 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:13:03
79 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:15:23
We have known for 3 years we needed a striker. We've bought a young lad who may or may not make it in the Premier League. Hopefully he will but, once again, our excuse is that he needs time to adapt.
We knew we needed a left-sided centre-half and left it to a last-minute panic to get one from Man Utd and still failed.
Silva wanted cover at right-back and, in my opinion, stupidly let Jonjoe Kenny go and brought in another who will probably need time to get up to speed.
We needed a defensive midfielder or box-to-box and have got another one who will need time. I championed John McGinn when he was at Hibs who we could have got for a couple of million. This lad's cost us 20 odd!!
We just never seem to be able to hit the start of the season at full speed — it's always so slow and predictable.
If we are serious about a top 6 finish, the players and also the manager need to buck up quickly.
80 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:17:51
Gbamin not so bad as people making out. Everyone looked a bit nervy at first.
Train just pulled in. I'll be back...
81 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:21:03
Is that really acceptable? 11 efforts at goal, 3 on target. Goal shy.
Yet apparently Watford and Wolves are easier to get points off. Steve, that's a fully laden set of excuses you've rolled out for Mr Silva.
Poor result, let's call it for what it was.
82 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:22:22
I do hope we get a favourable League Cup draw so we aren't dumped out of that as usual before we find our stride.
83 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:28:31
Clearly some of our new recruits aren't yet up to speed. I do believe they will be fully ready soon though. For me, today wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't as good as I would have hoped for.
85 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:37:34
86 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:14
It was no surprise either that the 2 players Gbamin and Kean were not starting, as they have only been at the club for 3 days and, when they were brought on, struggled so there is no way to asses their performance.
I believe it was Alex Ferguson who said you can afford to have 1 player having a poor game as the rest of the team should step up; our problem was we had more than 1 playing badly and bringing on the 2 new players was a mistake and did not help.
We should see a better performance next week when they have had a chance to train with the rest of the squad, and with Schniederlin missing, it will give Tom Davies a chance to make the position his.
87 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:24
88 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:43:55
Positives... Clean sheet, more minutes under the belt for the likes of Richarlison and the likelihood that this starting line-up – a hangover from last season – will surely not be the norm going forwards. Hopefully, with greater attacking options and more sharpness next week, we can start to get that illusive goal that changes the whole complex of the game.
Central mid is now a concern but maybe being forced into a more offensive line-up might get us going. Disappointing today but let's not dwell on it and let's move on to the next game, which admittedly is must-win for the sake of confidence and optimism We hardly ever win the opener!!
89 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:50:57
A good result today, a point with 10 men, clean sheet in awful windy conditions. New signings being slated already, why? I remember seeing Fellaini against Liverpool and they were laughing at how off-the-pace and awful he looked. Different league and country to settle into, give them time.
This squad is the best I've seen for a while and January and next summer will be even better. We are going in the right direction.
90 Posted 10/08/2019 at 18:54:19
I'm pleased Gbamin got on early as he will have learnt a lot. He needs to adapt quickly if Gomes's injury is serious though Silva says it is not.
Throughout pre-season, we struggled to create opportunities. As we did last season. We rely too much on the flanks and counter-attacks. Iwobi could help with this but Silva needs to find other ways of attacking and scoring.
Shame not to get 3 points but at least we're not Watford. Let's rub salt in their wounds next weekend.
ps: Many mocked Villa for spending £26m on Mings but he's looked good. Maybe we should have offered £30m!
91 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:04:44
Great day for us!
93 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:06:14
94 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:06:53
95 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:09:59
"Top 6 for us" Go take your Meds, lads
Some of us go to matches and this was pure rubbish against relegation fodder. We're supposed to win against lower opposition if we're going to better last season's almighty 8th.
Onwards and upwards... thank god I live nearby.
96 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:11:09
I agree with Gary Hughes @ 63 in his assessment regards the lack of desire to win the likes of these games. We needed a Costa and should have gone and got him.
To those who are saying it's early days, yes it is and we already have dropped two points! Watford next week at our place, will be harder than this, I predict.
97 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:11:14
98 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:13:06
99 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:15:46
Schneiderlin did play well first half, but his tackling is off the pace of Gueye and therefore is late. Gomes played well. Sigurdsson didn't provide any telling passes in the final third and missed chances. Think Iwobi should replace him. Calvert-Lewin held up the ball well and lead the high press, but was never going to be provided with balls to run on to , on the turn. He wasn't well positioned for any crosses.
Richarlision was channelled by the Palace defense and ineffective. Bernard seemed off the pace. Kean has good positional sense and can get tbere. Gbamin was way off the pace. The finishing was woeful.
There are Everton players that are not fit enough.
100 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:17:19
Its all well and good bemoaning bad service but our number 9 is nowhere near aggressive enough, nowhere near clinical enough and basically just nowhere near a top 6 footballer for the position he currently occupies.
Moise Kean simply has to come good and fast otherwise its yet another season in bloody transition.
101 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:17:23
It truly depresses me when fellow Evertonians make excuses and rationalizations for our continued failure not to live up to our sad and sorry old motto.
Now Spurs 3 - 1 Villa.
102 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:19:53
The road to recovery requires us to acknowledge when weve made a mess of it and we did so today. It was the sort of half-arsed, incoherent performance that we have to leave behind - quickly.
103 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:22:02
As for the rest, sadly predictable and shows up the happy clappers claiming that was a good transfer window – it wasn't. The massive difference between us and top 6 last season was the amount of goals in the team; we didn't address that, we haven't added goals and still rely on Richarlison and Sigurdsson — if they're not scoring who is?
104 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:22:14
It just looks like something wrong at Everton, they don't seem to fight for each other...
Anyway, let's batter Watford next, game!
105 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:23:20
Marc, you will probably realise that positivity has no place on this site. Buying a load of players for £100's of millions and never selling anyone so we can have a massive net spend is the way forward apparently.
106 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:26:57
That's because we are not a top six club at the moment and as you say fellow Evertonians need to realise that. It's not an excuse at all. Yes, maybe the Spurs new boy scored, but blimey I could name a lot of players from abroad who struggled in their first season then became great players.
We are a club that has gone downhill for years and now we are moving in the right direction for the first time in a long time, it will take some time and a few more transfer windows yet to become a top-six club.
107 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:32:06
Do you accept that we, as fans, are entitled to critique each games as it happens?
108 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:33:14
Yes noticed positivity on this site has no place.
109 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:35:16
Well some of our players have been away on international duty. so have other teams.
Our new lads haven't had a full preseason well that applies to all Clubs.
They're in a new country and don't speak the lingo do you mean like every other teams new signings.
It's amazing the excuses we find for a totally inept and crap performance. Why can't we just accept that there are no excuses and that we were woeful and if we don't put a bit more effort in we won't even finish in last seasons position.
110 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:35:26
Moise Kean however looks very tidy. Didn't get much service but was making intelligent runs and looked very enthusiastic for the half hour he was on. Someone above mentioned the ball through from Richy. When these two get rocking there's going to be some defenses shitting themselves.
Mina and Keane looked sound, defense clean sheet but Palace are pretty shite. I think they'll go down this year, especially with Zaha's head stuck up his own arse. Coleman put in a shift by why on earth won't he put the ball in the box when he gets the chance. Too often trying to beat his man to get to the byline only to spunk possession. Bernard runs round in circles but you do feel when he's on the ball that it is likely to end up with one of our men. Siggy was Siggy - an enigma to me. Needs a bit more pizzazz to his game. Gomes disappointed me. Its the first time I've got to see him but was not as creative as I expected. Any news on his injury?
DCL will continue to confound and divide opinion. He is a worker and doesn't shirk. I so much hope he can be a provider for Richy and Moisey, and bag a few himself. He's not the waster that so many paint him as but time will be running out for him soon. Schneids is a twat. Just not a calm man. I feel he may be pressurising himself overly. Clearly Silva sees something but training is not match time under the microscope, so maybe a bit of sports psychology for him.
Back to Gbamin. I don't know if he is supposed to be a Gana replacement but showed nerves today. I didn't think he was too bad, and better if I'm honest than I remember Gana being when he started playing for us. It really was the last half of last season that he really earned his colours and we tend to forget that. He's received a lot of stick on here in the past. Tom D was solid and seems to have bulked up a bit. I sense a good season beckons for him.
So all in all a disappointing day but not one for despondency. We should have brought three points home on the day but the Palace contingent will be ruing Pickford's two second half saves which kept us in the match, so I guess we can't grumble too much.
Watford next. Lets see a hatful boys!
111 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:36:19
Is that the mighty Watford who got twatted at home by the even mightier Brighton.
We should have taken Siggy off, put Bernard number 10 and gone kean, DCL and Richalison up top, after DCL went off the ball kept coming back at us especially after the sending off. Is punching the pitch really a yellow card
112 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:37:02
Yes of course that's what forums are for. I'm just the same as everyone else to have a say, just wish a bit more positivity. But suppose we all see the games, running of the club differently and have our own opinions
114 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:37:57
Ok it wasn't the win near everyone expected, the bottom line is the new signings came in late, they will take a little bit of time to settle in and get used to the pace of the prem.
I expect a totally different team next week and a more positive attitude, we didn't lose for gods sake.
A week is a long time in football and a weeks training will put a few things right of that I'm sure.
115 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:38:57
Looking ahead to more transfer windows that are months and years in the future as some panacea for the lack of spirit and belief and desire to win at all costs that we failed to see today, when it really counts, is something I cannot get my head around.
Jam tomorrow...? Sorry, but no thanks. I want to see a lot more from this lot... TODAY. You know they are capable of it. We as fans need to make sure they know it and pull their tripe out to be their absolute best. I will not lower my expectations until I see them doing that.
116 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:39:52
Glad we didn't get Zaha.
117 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:02
On another day we're 2 or 3 up at half time. At the moment the ball's not going in - just one of those things.
Perhaps we'll see Kean and Iwobi starting the Watford game.
118 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:40
We're moving in the right direction, fair enough.
But when you travel to an inferior team's ground and come up with only a point, all the while seeing the following:
- a bright young kid on the bench in favor of Schneiderlin
- Schneiderlin sent off
- Gilfy brain dead and playing shite
- our defense, despite claims of them being good today, giving up two one on ones and allowing holes to open up, the likes better opposition would absolutely punish
- a manager waiting too long for at least one sub, and I'd argue two, accepting a level of play on the pitch that is substandard
It's just not good enough, Marc!
FFS, we've had people on here (one's I respect entirely) citing our past troubles when traveling to London as a reason to be happy to have garnered a fucking point off the Mighty Palace.
If we are ever going to succeed as a Club, and put lesser opposition to the sword, I don't give a flying fuck if the game is in Toronto Canada! It's the, "we're traveling to London, that game is going to be a tough one" mindset we absolutely must shake! The mindset needs to be, "we're playing an inferior team, we need three points."
People dismissing this analysis and claiming anyone who is critical as a "moaner" are entirely missing the point.
Raise the bar man! We have a team that, in my opinion, we're entitled to expect more from.
We're certainly entitled to expect three full points from a shit team without their superstar!
That's not moaning!
I despair!! Don't reach for that brass ring, you might pull a muscle!!
119 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:42:43
Ok yes I can see where your coming from and perhaps your right and players need to know too. I'm probably just trying to be positive and see positives out of negatives. But yes understand what you mean. Apologies if it came across to make you feel aggrieved.
120 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:43:39
I would say that Watford are a better side than Palace and getting hammered at home by as you say by the mighty Brighton will have us facing a side that will be looking to make amends, that's what I mean.
121 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:44:27
Why do you think we are not a top 6 side?
122 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:08
123 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:25
There needs to be a sense of realism and I think bridging the points gap between us and the top 6 and a good tilt at silverware would be progress this season.
I am a 46-year-old season ticket holder who has seen us as one of Europe's best and escaping relegation so any matchgoing 'super supporters' who start telling me I have no ambition can go and do one. I am a realist and have got sick of hearing the likes of Tom Davies get dogs abuse whilst hearing all the moaners go on because we didn't get a 4th choice centre-half in.
124 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:47:32
We have been and probably still are the best below the best teams and have bought wisely.
To shout TODAY is understandable but so is the desire for world peace the day after. This will be a team that will develop well and have us cheering happily soon.
But at the risk of boring myself with repetition, I believe strongly that the strategy is to get to our best team (and maybe manager) to coincide with the new ground. Keeps me going.
125 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:49:39
Guess where we are.
Guess where we finished last season?
And the season before...
We are not a top-six club. Yet. But there is no reason why we cannot be from next week onwards. In fact, with a win today that we should have achieved with our first-half superiority, we would be already! But that's football!!!
126 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:52:13
Yeh, we're all disappointed but the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth is way over the top. We could, and should, have won if we'd have taken our early chances but some of our play was poor.
127 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:52:40
Same here and just trying to put things into perspective and be positive. Just felt a bit fed up of moaning as you are. But I can understand comments like Michael's as well as we are all different.
128 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:54:37
I'm sure the table after game one has no bearing on the table after game 38 and I'm sure we have had worse starts than an away draw and a clean sheet and finished a lot higher than 6th. But I might be wrong.
129 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:54:42
130 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:55:35
It's not over the top.
We could, and should, have won if we'd have taken our early chances but some of our play was poor
You're correct! But we didn't win. And there were performances and decisions that weren't good enough.
Time to expect and demand more. Or we'll be sitting here in five year's time, finishing 8th, still waiting on BMD to be built.
I don't think anyone should be satisfied with today, or accept that a point against Palace is acceptable.
Anywho, broken record from me. Have a nice day.
131 Posted 10/08/2019 at 19:58:04
133 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:02:45
I see Schneiderlin has let us down again though. And a lack of goals in this team was apparent in pre-season. If we play Calvert-Lewin, Bernard, Schniderlin and Gomes, our only hope of scoring is Richarlison or Sigurdsson. And they both have the same weakness for me – they go missing most of the time. At the end of the season, they have a dozen goals and a handful of assists and everyone thinks they are the bees' knees. But in reality, they do not offer enough over 90 minutes in games.
Hopefully Iwobi can get more goals than Bernard, and Kean more goals than Calvert-Lewin, and we can tweak things to carry on our good form from the end of last season. I'm not too concerned about the result today. I have seen us look like world beaters on day one and finish up as also-rans. I have also seen us get battered on the opening day and win the league. Perspective please!
134 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:09:51
Early days, played some decent stuff, but when you have got a midfielder who only shows aggression by punching the turf, then you know you've still got a lot to work on?
Good teams inject pace into their play, and Everton, for all their possession, just didn't try and do enough of this today.
135 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:10:12
For too long we have had no financial support from the Board. Finishing in EL positions is not good enough. We need to push on. Get back to being a top team and compete with the likes of Spurs, Arsenal etc.
It's a great outlook to have and quite right.
However when we witness a shit performance against a team we really should be beating in order to move us on and comment on it we are moaners, not realists. We don't understand all the excuses as to why we couldn't beat Palace.
So the answer is we just say every game we play is fantastic regardless of the result or performance, or, we just accept we are a mid table entity.
Seems you can't win.
If we play well then say it, if we don't then say it.
136 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:12:22
137 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:14:00
This is football.. and Everton.
138 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:18
139 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:22
140 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:15:39
No shape and the midfield looks a total mess. Richarlison is wasted on the right as he is hardly ever near the box, while Bernard does what exactly on the left?
To be fair to Palace, who easily could have won the game, it was more like a point gained for us, with Pickford solely responsible for it.
141 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:18:57
142 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:19:37
143 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:20:42
144 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:20:52
As I respect your contributions and intelligence, Ciaran, I'll run with that.
145 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:21:22
146 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:21:50
147 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:22:12
148 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:25:16
149 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:28:03
150 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:29:13
However, some things do not change. Everton are never as good as I think. We will though, win next week. If not, I will accept responsibility.
151 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:30:45
153 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:32:52
“That midfield duo of Reid and Bracewell simply aren't good enough and will just get over-run all year”
“Why Kendall persists with that welsh fella in goal, I'll never know as he was easily beaten 4 times today.”
“What is the point of playing Trevor Steven out wide and why, oh why does he insist on the slow-paced Sheedy on the left when he can't tackle?”
“Don't get me started on Ratcliffe. We desperately need a new centre half to replace him.”
155 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:34:23
156 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:34:25
Thick skin required lad.
You haven't upset anyone. Keep trucking.
157 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:36:29
158 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:38:23
159 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:39:47
160 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:41:20
161 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:41:23
162 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:43:33
163 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:44:29
Schneiderlin will protect the back four, no more no less. It will hopefully be for the other players to dictate how we play. It's a thankless role, but absolutely vital.
164 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:44:33
165 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:45:01
I very much doubt if there will be a better post than that all season that. Sums up my thoughts, thank you!
166 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:46:52
167 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:48:08
Keep posting. Your post had value points.
168 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:49:11
I don't know what has happened with Siggy he was poor pre-season, and carried that on today, you don't expect a player of his quality to have such a poor run, and then carry it on. We all know players are human and can have an off-day, but the seasons opening game for us should have produced a lot, lot, more from all of our players.
Luckily we weren't tested too much by Palace, but the defence coped well all in all, with a couple of great saves from Jordan. Keane and Mina did well, I have to say. We seemed to lack creativity in the middle and up front, and as much as I like DCL he is not a natural striker.
Look forward to seeing you in the Excelsior, and hope you don't need a tin hat with those bold predictions!
169 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:51:51
170 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:53:00
171 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:53:59
If everyone had the same opinion, it would be a rubbish site and we wouldn't keep coming back to get wound up.
Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.
172 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:54:28
Managers keep picking him, giving him chance after chance. He must be great at Finch Farm; he's like one of those horses that's brilliant on the gallops but useless on the track or stud farm.
He's only going to be vital for us if Gomes, Delph, Gbamin and Davies all get injured at once.
The onus is now on Silva and the players to find the ruthless streak were all looking for.
Kean & Iwobi to start next Saturday. And I'm looking forward to seeing Gbamin when he's actually fit and ready to play.
173 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:55:11
174 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:56:24
Yes, suppose it would be a good result and performance then we can all put positive messages on.
175 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:10
We'll have to agree to disagree on that mate. I just think the reaction to a draw in the first game of a long season is over the top by some.
We'll have ups and downs along the way and I think I've just learned to take the rough with the smooth. We can hope and pray for better but I'm afraid, in the cold light of day, we can't "demand" it.
176 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:10
177 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:57:37
To quote Pep, “Defensive midfielders are not there to make themselves look good but to make other players look better.“
178 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:58:08
Some react very quickly, others take a longer view.
One perspective generally annoys the shit out of the other.
C'est la vie.
179 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:07
Your post was fine and provides balance. Post game we all are mostly a hot mess! Posts moderate themselves I find as we hit midweek.
Get stuck in!!!
180 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:28
Don't bank on it!
181 Posted 10/08/2019 at 20:59:33
It's one of those ones where you could have 10 identical incidents, and you'd only get a booking for two of them.
182 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:00:03
When are we going to appoint a great manager? They do exist. Look at the effect Graham Potter has had already at Brighton.
Separately, when we signed Zouma, how come we didn't start looking for his replacement straight away? The clue was in the word “loan”.
As ever, the club is a shambles but don't worry, Bill's a blue and mortgaged his house.
183 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:01:21
If we are to progress on the last five seasons, then we need to start turning these types of away games (Palace are notoriously shit at home) into 3 points.
Our home form is usually solid enough with a minimum of 10 victories but our away form is gash and we barely ever register more than 19 or 20 points on the road, it's just bang average for a pretty big-spending team.
184 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:03:04
Come match day, experienced and physically strong, not one ounce of leadership from him.
A classic Shithouse is our Morgan.
185 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:03:10
186 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:05:22
I thought he was doing okay to a point, but its only a thankless role, if you dont look like you are enjoying it, and I personally think that whoever plays this position, should be constantly cajoling everyone around him?
Gbamin struggled at times today, but I think this could be a role that is taylor-made for him, although I agree that whoever plays there needs a lot more movement in-front of them.
187 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:07:23
188 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:08:47
It wouldn't bother me if Schneiderlin was shipped out before the Euro Window closure either. Before some say we can't, or whatever in his defence, I remember reading that Sidibe who is basically cover for Seamus can also play in midfield if called upon.
Hope Gomes's injury is only minor, as it all seemed to deteriorate further today when he went off, but it is not fair to lay any blame at Gbamin's door. I had hoped that Tom Davies would have been on from the start in Schneiderlin's role but seemed to be in the minority, and the lad played okay when he came on.
189 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:12:57
I also read somewhere that iwobi also played in the middle sometimes for arsenal so maybe an option next weekend if Gomes is injured as Morgan is suspended
190 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:13:45
It's devaluing their opinions in one fell swoop, while insisting that we all have to make "positive" posts — in other words, brush all the inadequacies we saw today under the carpet and pretend everything is going to be rosy tomorrow.
Some people are good with that, but not everyone. Others would rather have it told like it is. No sugar-coating, no happy clapping — just honest opinion on how we performed and where we are as a team, and some aspiration that at least pays lip-service to our almost forgotten motto. Have you ever seen the famous "Nothing but the Best" clip of Sir John Moores?
"I have obviously annoyed or upset some people which was not my intention at all so I can only apologise if I have."
Thanks, I'll take that as an apology for you calling a bunch of posters on here "moaners" when all they're doing is giving their honest opinion of what they saw today.
But there's absolutely no need for flouncing off pouting. Just put your view forward without insulting others. That's all.
191 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:15:36
192 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:16:28
Besides its appearance to others of our intent, he is the real deal. He's physically very strong, he's a nuisance and can be deployed in lots of systems, or as shown today off the bench. Other teams and their back lines really fear him.
I for one would have been happy to pay whatever Palace wanted. £100m, so be it. We've just had £10m off them for someone who hasn't played for 2 seasons.
I'll be praying we get him in January, but I doubt it.
194 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:20:05
195 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:22:32
196 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:25:00
Some people give a negative view and are castigated as ‘moaners whereas others see the positives and are accused of being ‘happy clappers. Both are pejorative terms designed to demean the other side. Neither one is right all the time.
197 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:26:27
198 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:26:28
199 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:05
For fuck's sake, being disappointed with us not winning against a side who will be scraping all season to avoid relegation is not being negative or moaning, it is being fucking realistic in my opinion.
Not good enough to where we need to get to – simple.
200 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:06
Just how bad was Gbamin?
201 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:28:19
All rumours but if he can go to Turkey, then I personally think that would be better for everyone concerned, especially Silva, who might just find a better system to suit his squad, instead of giving players thankless roles in the first place!
202 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:33:02
Just how bad was Gbamin?
He got caught in possession twice and passed straight to a Palace shirt once, two of those incidents leading to Palace chances on goal and he looked unfit/lacking in match sharpness which is patently is.
Otherwise, he looked composed on the ball, always looked to go forwards and didn't hide. He got an early lesson that you have no time on the ball in the Premier League, particularly against a side like Palace. It wasn't a baptism of fire because he wasn't swamped and we didn't lose so it could turn out to be just what he needed.
As others have pointed out, Fellaini had a similarly shaky start in a new league and he turned out just fine. It is ridiculously premature to be making any sort of judgement on him either way.
203 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:33:23
The new lads will take half-a-dozen games to settle in so a few stray passes are to be expected. The centre-backs were very good and offer hope that the inability to get Zouma will not be the fatal blow that some have feared. Morgan is what we expect and never a first pick. Maybe he will go abroad after all this month?
Calvert-Lewin splits opinion and I have defended him with the passion and determination we expect from our centre-backs! He took his usual amount of stick today but I think he did fine and Moise Kean will be better with Calvert-Lewin alongside him.
Pickford was excellent. We have Delph and Iwobi to come in and Gomes looked decent until the injury. I am optimistic that the team will settle after a few games to be the best we have had since 1986-87. I hope the fans give them time and encouragement; early criticism is understandable but won't be helpful, especially to foreign youngsters trying to settle in a strange country, away from family and friends and struggling with the lingo.
A decent win next week will help us no end.
204 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:35:35
As I have said there was no intention of upsetting/insulting others. Glad that you have accepted my apology. I will watch what I say in future.
205 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:37:10
206 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:38:17
It was as an archetypal introduction to British football as you could get.
207 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:38:37
Every year, I think this is it. Now I know that a point on the first day is okay. I know a draw in London is okay, I know we will be fine, I know we will beat Watford next week.
What I know, though, after one game, with total certainty is, that this is, absolutely, totally not fucking IT.
208 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:39:36
I would like to think Gbamin wasn't bad, but simply unaccustomed.
There were glimpses of the player he will be... even with the naivety.
209 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:46:02
210 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:47:43
211 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:49:30
I know theres a lot of things to take into consideration, and that the pace of the game in England, catches many players out, but I think weve got the nucleus of a very good team, and its going to be interesting to see which way Silva, tries to develop it?
212 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:51:52
213 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:52:52
214 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:54:49
215 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:56:19
I was thinking more of Moise Kean, but he's Italian, isn't he? I think we bought him as the striker, and perhaps he would have stood a better chance of getting bedded in quickly – and scoring – if he'd been played from the start.
But we will never know because Marco knows best and he chose to play Calvert-Lewin, who as we all know, ain't the best at getting in the right place in the penalty area or putting the ball in the net.
216 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:56:57
217 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:57:22
218 Posted 10/08/2019 at 21:58:17
Watford next week is a must-win, I hope you are right.
Mosie Keane has to start for me, go make a name for himself.
219 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:04:58
220 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:09:34
221 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:11:26
Marc, why apologise when you have an opinion? Nobody else does on here. Whether people agree with you or not, they are your opinions.
If opinions are sanitized on here, it ceases to be an open forum.
222 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:15:41
223 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:18:12
We are naturally disappointed at today's result; it could have been worse; it can only get better.
Perhaps our motto should be 'Say what you think, but first think what you say'. A lively discussion, let's hope we have a lively season.
224 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:19:51
I don't know what fields you work in but in mine (finance) they tend to set goals at about 120 percent of what you want to achieve. Logic being you shoot for the stars but hopefully at least hit the moon. If we aim for sixth, then it's reasonable to say “we were pretty close getting 7th or 8th.”
Not saying it's easy or that realistic but I would rather try and win every game than say our aim is to be the 5th best loser before a ball has been kicked.
225 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:25:31
226 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:25:40
It was like Alcaraz. I remember thinking ‘he can't be this bad? He'll be better after a run of games'. But no. He really was that bad.
Bilyaletdinov started poorly and got worse from there.
McGeady, another. Sandro Ramirez. Klaassen. Bilic. So many we have had where the reputation is strong but they are just garbage.
227 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:28:35
228 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:31:41
If Siggy had scored, I believe we'd have won today, but that's Sigurdsson, his style, but not Messi.
Percentages is not relevant as we don't create enough chances regardless of possession, but let's be brutal and take good chances.
It seems that we've for gotten how to score goals, not just today, but for years.
The reasons on drought set us up for today. Next week, Watford, will be up for a clash, we must win, this game.
Each to their own, we've lost first games at home, and been smashed, but won titles, so plenty to look up to going forward. It's a new squad, but Schneider, kind of sold his soul today; very poor decision-making and lack of respect for his team. It's not the first time, but no excuses today, and now, going into the second game, we are in the crap house, in terms of midfield.
Any way Kenny played, and Schalke won, well.
Early days, so let's be reasonable, all factors, concerned.
Early days but it's frustrating but not all gloom and doom.
Now for Watford, and the Gods will make sure we win.
229 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:39:09
231 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:42:54
232 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:43:31
A neutral view was that a draw was most likely outcome of the match, so we shouldn't be too shocked that was how it turned out.
I said pre-match that there are no easy games away from home and I would be content if we drew. If that is thought to be lacking ambition, be that as it may, it was just an honest appraisal.
What grates sometimes is when the criticism or praise, usually criticism, is way over the top.
233 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:44:20
234 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:46:55
235 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:48:41
However he also showed some glimpses of good football. I think he will improve a lot in a couple of games. So I think we should not worry about today's performance.
237 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:55:26
238 Posted 10/08/2019 at 22:56:37
Everton's last regular goalscorer has just signed for Inter Milan when he was previously playing for another club down the East Lancs Road... but now he is 800 miles away.
239 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:01:45
Neville Southall was and is right.
As has been said in the past, no side enters a war unless they believe they can win.
So what is our aim?
I can do no better than to quote Winston Churchill:-
"You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs — Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival."
240 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:05:01
241 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:17:36
242 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:20:11
Second half, Pickford saved us.
First game, let's see what pans out, the next four, when we play Man City, will set the gauge, in my view, for this season.
But there's promise and hope, but we can't treat Premier League games like pre-season matches, and friendlies.
We need a “Killer Instinct coach”, as from just seeing Burnley, on MotD, Ashley Barnes has more finishing instinct than ours...
Marco Silva to deliver, ASAP, hopefully.
244 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:28:47
245 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:37:03
246 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:38:39
247 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:43:05
The Premier League is the toughest league in the world. New players need time. If we are turning performances that are poor at Christmas then time to worry. Keep the faith.
248 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:43:40
3 seasons now it has been said he's young, he holds the ball up well, he will come good.... The guy is likeable, but that does not get you regular goals.
How much longer we continue starting Calvert-Lewin, Christ knows... but I certainly hope Kean and Iwobi start the next game.
249 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:55:32
Calvert-Lewin is never going to be prolific, but he brings a lot more to the team. Do you not think Palace were a better side after he was substituted? Granted, we were reduced to 10 men but we had no-one to hold the ball up top.
250 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:57:01
We need a leader, a real leader, god knows we do. Could it be Delph?
Thats the thing, though. We must erase our reflex feeling that were not quite good enough. We must go for it, right from the start, every single time; every fucking single time.
251 Posted 10/08/2019 at 23:58:29
252 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:13:02
253 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:13:02
254 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:23:11
255 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:32:50
Neville Southall played for a Everton team that could have won every competition they were involved in. The attitude he has is the attitude needed to do that or to win the Champions League.
Getting into the top four without extended runs in the League Cup and FA Cup would mean that Everton would not have sufficient preparation to play in two competitions at a higher level in the following season and would be back to Square One.
It's interesting that Silva this season in a recent press interview, stated that Everton wanted to do well in the League Cup and FA Cup, as well as the Premier League.
256 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:39:24
We are visibly weak in terms of "getting stuck in" and we don't score goals or play attractive football either, a recipe for boredom, hence our last place most every week it seems on MOTD. We deserve it. Finch Farm is where the solution is going to emerge from, but who's still there unable to deliver?
Answers on a dissertation please.
God knows where "winning leaders" are to be found among today's millionaire-by-twenty psueds but until we find a few, of any age, we'll remain a real nonentity in terms of trophies.
257 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:45:26
We played balls in and around the area with no end product. We need that player who can put those chances away when the ball is delivered; sadly, it is not Lewin.
He has had over two seasons and played regularly. We cannot knock his hold-up play but, with the players we have now working into good positions, we need someone to tuck away those chances.
258 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:56:09
That mate of yours who was assessing a 17-year-old Calvert-Lewin?
What coaching qualifications does he have because, if he can see what a player is going to become at 17, we need him on board!!
259 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:57:34
Wow, that is not what's meant by 'hold-up play'.
260 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:59:35
There are other clubs who had far worse opening results than us who may reasonably have been expecting better.
261 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:21:01
It sounds like we are still on the same page with Southall. But, whilst his team could win everything, it wasn't always so. By rights, as a dustman from Bury coming into a struggling team, Southall had no basis for his winning attitude. Everyone would've said he was a fool in 1983. But obviously he and the rest tuned out the pundits and the boo boys and knuckled down to hard work.
People say “It was easier in those days.” To which I say "Leicester City". People say that was a one-off. To which I say "Burnley; then Wolves came from nowhere to pip us in the last two years for 7th".
I do think attitude is a factor. When did we accept the top six were just better than us? It wasn't so long ago Newcastle were “big 4” but Gravesen and Co didn't give a shit about that in 2005. I'd just like to see us stop creating ever lower glass ceilings.
262 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:24:29
I think Kean is 19 years old, and he only ever started a handful of games for Juventus. We need to be patient with him and not expect too much too soon. If he gets a few starts and doesn't impress – or worse (for some on here if Calvert-Lewin is anything to go on) doesn't score any goals, then what?
I'd rather bring him into the team when we have settled into some decent form and he's had a good chance to get to know his team-mates, the coaching staff, the club, the league, and the city. It's a big move at a young age and I think we should be looking to Iwobi to come in and make our attacking unit stronger straight away.
263 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:26:49
They (we?) then think Iwobi will improve this.
Its poor, predictable and boring.
264 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:31:13
265 Posted 11/08/2019 at 01:35:00
Granted he was much younger than now, but he has certainly had a few seasons in the first team at Everton, many more than any of our other strikers on the books.
He may have a lot of good points, but for me he is not a Premier League striker chasing a top 6 spot who will get well into double figures.
Everyone has different views, I have seen enough of Calvert-Lewin to see he will not get us those goals on a regular basis.
Not sure how good Kean is, but pretty sure with a regular run out, he will put some of those chances away.
Cost us last season missed chances from various players.
We have been crying out for a centre forward, hopefully Kean will get as many chances as Calvert-Lewin has had.
266 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:01:00
He is in a typical predicament for Everton strikers were as he doesn't get many clear cut chances, were working on becoming more creative but, from what I saw today once Gomes went off, we created very little.
Bernard looked lively, but Sigurdsson and Richalison wasnt up to there high standards, Calvert-Lewin had one header to go off in 65 minutes (give or take) Kean had nothing to go off for half-an-hour, but the whole of the 2nd half was a none event due to Gomes becoming injured and Schneiderlin getting a red.
Calvert-Lewin is not the finished article, he's not a lethal finisher, but neither are a lot of strikers. For me, Calvert-Lewin is a target man who is extremely fit, quick and hard-working; he will develop along the way but he won't ever be an instinctive finisher.
We have had players like Duncan Ferguson lead our line, he himself was far from lethal, but you have to look at what else we have within our squad, or available to us via the transfer market and be realistic.
Kean looked like he was blowing after 20 minutes up top today, Calvert-Lewin has Tosun and Niasse for competition until Kean is fit enough to start (this or next week, I hope). I'd play him over the above pairing, hopefully Kean will start to score and take so.e of the pressure off Calvert-Lewin and allow him to start scoring without the actual burden.
If I was to blame anyone today, I'd look at Sigurdsson and Coleman for poor misses, plus Richalison should have done better. Imo Calvert-Lewin did very little wrong.
267 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:06:05
268 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:18:00
Drawing at Palace at any time in our history has never been acceptable.
269 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:22:03
I would not blame Coleman for today with his miss. From minute one, he was going full pelt trying to get at Palace. Okay, he had a shot he missed but he bust his arse and was relentless.
Richarlison and Sigurdsson literally did nothing. Bernard came alive after about 30 mins but was wasteful. Digne worked hard but not much final product. But Coleman is not someone I would single out for criticism today.
270 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:28:09
Nice try tick but you're implying we will take a total of 24 points off the so-called “Big Six”. I'm with John. I actually expected more from Palace today but they were dreadful, there for the taking.
271 Posted 11/08/2019 at 02:44:37
Firstly, a lack of support for the man in the middle, which is a function of how the team is set up; call it 'balance'.
Secondly, the lack of chances created... I don't mean those couple of "Ooh, aah" goalmouth scrambles we had.
I don't think there was one chance were Calvert-Lewin's critics, of whom there are many, could point to and say – there, see, a decent striker would've buried that.
Bernard had one chance and bottled it or was too clever.
Schneiderlin, the Ref did us a favour. When he went off, we never missed him and nor will we while he sits out the next 3 games.
Gbamin, his replacement, looks seriously under-done and off the pace... but it is early days for him.
Sigurdsson? Anonymous today and increasingly many other days. How long will Silva and we wait for one of his 4 or 5 decent games a season to turn up???
As one wag commented yesterday, "We used to have three No 10s — now we have none!"
Silva; the window is shut, so he can't get any more players to fit whatever magic system he has us playing in his head.
Find one that DOES work, mate, not one that SHOULD work.
272 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:03:23
At key moments, he was the wrong side of the defender and the ball never got him: the defender intercepted and cleared.
It's getting beyond a joke how we've heard all these detailed analyses of Calvert-Lewin's fantastic contributions to team play, but the bottom line is: he hardly ever scores (admittedly, just like the rest of our team). That is now our perennial problem. Kean and Iwobi seem to be the impending solutions. Let's bloody hope so!!!
273 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:31:27
"When are we going to appoint a great manager? They do exist. Look at the effect Graham Potter has had already at Brighton."
I can just imagine the scenes if we fired Silva and appointed Graham Potter. Hardly a renowned ‘Great' of the managerial world...
274 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:37:33
The midfield collapsed in the second half, Digne and Bernard did not link up well on the left, Sigurdsson was still on vacation. In fact, the only players who performed well were Keane, Mina and Pickford.
Yet the main focus of our frustration is Calvert-Lewin?! Messi could have played yesterday and not got a kick. Continuing to heap all our performance issues on this young forward is actually becoming risible.
275 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:43:32
(Just joking — In case my age or brain power is questioned by a certain poster.)
Pretty pathetic showing from Everton is what I will say because it is 100 percent true and factual.
276 Posted 11/08/2019 at 03:51:24
Like the team, let's give him time. They have barely trained together and it will take a couple of games to integrate them all in. Kean will start next week and Iwobi will get some playing time. Then let's judge.
Two home wins and the start to the season will look bright.
277 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:25:44
Gbamin will be fine when he adjusts to the pace of the Premier League.
278 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:27:34
279 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:33:26
Palace caused havoc in that second half with players belting forward at pace and tore us open a few times.
We never create one-on-one chances because no-one carries the ball and our forwards have to play with their backs to goal.
How come the genius that is (apparently) Brands and the idiot that is Silva can't see it? Messi wouldn't get many at Everton the way the teams set up to play, it's fucken torture to watch.
280 Posted 11/08/2019 at 04:34:04
He is supposed to be a Number 9 – ie, the main striker! If we and Marco are happy to have a Number 9 who scores 6 goals a season (at best), then we truly are in a shocking state!
It's not rocket science to see that the top 6 teams all have at least one striker who can score 20+ goals a season.
281 Posted 11/08/2019 at 05:16:27
Derek Thomas #172, may have posted the best post of this thread. His assessment is unbiased, realistic and thought-provoking about the system we are trying to play.
Like most, I was a bit disappointed to see the team sheet but accepted there maybe fitness problems with certain players. What I was not prepared for was the same old long-winded build-up of sideways and backwards passes that have one aim. That aim is to fuck around on both wings until you lose it. The chance of the ball being passed to our lone striker in the area is so remote, yet we accept it.
The posters on here who are not against Calvert-Lewin and wish to see him as a twin striker... forget it because Silva will only play one striker.
282 Posted 11/08/2019 at 05:36:13
Do you think Calvert-Lewin would get 6 goals if he was playing up front for Spurs or Liverpool?
Other teams create chances for their strikers. I don't rate Calvert-Lewin that highly, but right now he has a thankless job.
283 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:05:19
Sir John Pierce:
Sorry, Nicholas, to have a good season, you need to beat the dross home and away because we haven't picked up any sort of decent haul from those above us for years. Drawing at Palace at any time in our history has never been acceptable.
Drawing at Palace at any time in our history has never been acceptable.
That's my feeling too, and I couldn't agree more.
That's the whole crux of the issue for me.
Roll on, Watford. Three points.
284 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:13:12
Kean has to play from the get-go and – as some posters have already said – if we must play Calvert-Lewin, then try him as half of a front two with Kean.
Is two up-front some sort of sacrilege?!?
285 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:30:08
Please look up what Graham Potter did in Sweden and you'll see he's a great manager. My point was that you can see what a difference he has made already after just one match and spending his transfer budget wisely. I'd far rather he was our manager than the absolute fraud that is Silva.
Whilst I'm on, Calvert-Lewin is never going to make it. It's excruciating seeing us persist with him.
Everton will never win anything whilst we remain paralysed with the curse of Kenwright.
286 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:30:34
I'm with you. Remember John Gregory at Villa? What was it — 9 wins in a row or something before the wheels came off? Or Solskjaer for that matter.
Potter may prove to be great but one game against a team in a downward spiral is hardly proof of brilliance. Let's not forget, Mike Walker led Norwich to 3rd place.
With regards to Calvert-Lewin, yes, I'm one of those who have defended his all-around game, his movement, assists and intelligence. But yes, it is a reasonable expectation for a striker to score some goals.
Between him and Bernard, my patience is at an end. I see the makings of good players but FFS the Premier League is hardly the place for remedial students. Both these jokers need to produce end result or take up another career.
287 Posted 11/08/2019 at 06:31:00
Calvert-Lewin never got into positions in the box where he could take advantage. Kean, for his cameo, you could already see his positions, immediately knew how to get into spaces, one for that pass from Richarlison and another one with Digne, Kean was asking him to put it across the box.
Calvert-Lewin's goalscoring instincts are none at the moment – especially against sides that sit back. Against big six, I would prefer Calvert-Lewin.
Our decision in the final third was awful at times, but we dominated and defensively looked good, except a couple of times Gbamin lost possession and they got one-and-one with Pickford due to that. We can only get better from here.
288 Posted 11/08/2019 at 07:55:08
Obviously it's not a great result but it's all about context. If we beat Watford next week and manage to turn over Aston Villa away, then 7 points out of 9 looks very healthy and like an extremely positive start to the season. If we lose or draw both those games, then clearly it looks pretty dire.
Generally speaking, I think draws away in the Premier League are tolerable results so long as you're winning at home.
289 Posted 11/08/2019 at 07:56:45
Maybe some of us have had enough of just existing in the Premier League after 28 years of not competing in as you say "the toughest league in the world". Maybe some of us are thinking, after such a long time, we could expect a bit more and to actually exist again as a force. (It's been so long, I've forgotten how it feels!)
We see our neighbours win the European Cup for the 6th time and you are thinking "Aw well... at least Everton are still in the Premier League..." Is it not time, Dale, that our own fans' expectations need to be a bit bigger, or do we just accept that (for example) our No 9 doesn't score... but that's ok becasue he's "a nice lad"?
290 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:09:35
It's not like Calvert-Lewin is missing sitters. Yes, I'm sure his movement could improve and I'm not giving him a free pass. I want to see him being more aggressive around the box but I'm inclined to look at Bernard, Sigurdsson and Richarlison – what did they create?
Put Kean in if you think Calvert-Lewin is the reason why we look blunter than blunt up top. I suspect he'll find the same problem. Guess we'll see....
291 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:23:44
What must other fans think when they see Sigurdsson play?
"How much did he cost?"
"I think it was just the £45 million in the end."
"Christ, how old is he?"
We must have been out of our fucking minds...
He made about five key interventions yesterday, all of them to our detriment. And, other than that, he vanished. I mean, how is it possible to just disappear like that, for like half-an-hour at a time???
And not just today, although he's had a full pre-season, I can't remember him even being on the pitch for any of those games. Given that he is in the 'Messi' position for us, it is a bit fucking grim...
292 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:30:27
At the end of the day, it was a point away from home and a clean sheet which we can build on. Win against Watford next weekend and then take it from there.
Personally, I'm still unsure of Silva but I'm not down about the result. I thought we'd struggle to score and this will hopefully sort itself out once Kean and Iwobi get more imbedded. Calvert-Lewin and Bernard should not be starting regularly imo as neither contributes to the score sheet. They currently represent half our forward line.
Definite cause for cautious optimism but margins are fine. We really need 3 points next weekend to kick-start the season proper.
293 Posted 11/08/2019 at 08:56:39
I posted a post like yours last season on the "Top this and top that" obsession. It seems to be media-lead and suited Everton Football Club from top to bottom, who all doing quite nicely on Premier League money and with Moshiri's additional funds.
Fans latched onto "Top this and top that" as they grasped for any sign of progress. When was the last time the Everton Football Club talked about winning anything? So the 'glass ceiling' mentality is there throughout the club.
Moshiri, Brands and Silva think differently, but they are not in the whole club. The Everton team put out at Selhurst Park was not fit enough and two points were lost that could have won the Premier League at the end of the season. Other clubs who will challenge for the title made sure they won.
294 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:03:34
I agreed with Eric early in the thread, who said we needed to replace Sigurdsson with Bernard because, as Paul B said, we are too much pass, pass, pass, and I would add such very little movement.
We don't spring forward from the middle of the pitch, we don't have a player who just changes direction whilst running forward, and that's where I agree with Kevin for once, because Sigurdsson just wasn't at the races, and looked painfully slow in both thought and movement yesterday.
295 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:07:24
At least Sigurdsson had about our best chances, nobody else even remotely looked liked scoring. We have failed to replace Lukaku and replacing Gylfi will cost £60 to £80 million next time out. The £45 million will look like peanuts.
Our only hope is Iwobi can take some of the pressure off creatively, but we still have the problem of finding a striker who scores consistently which remains our biggest downfall.
296 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:10:46
No point in being up & running 10 games in! Too late and damage done.
Our pre-season doesn't appear to be at the level required for a team aspiring to be in the top 5.
297 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:18:47
His other effort was very poor though, just like his little pass that sold Gomes short and resulted in him getting injured.
I like Sigurdsson but I didn't like how he performed yesterday, and just felt if we could have got someone injecting a bit of pace into the team from those central areas, then we might have caused Palace a lot more problems, rather than just constantly playing in front of them.
298 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:22:51
299 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:27:12
I very much agree. People seem to think that a better goalscorer will naturally mean a boat-load more goals but even the very best will struggle for double figures if opportunities are not being created.
I said this summer that creativity would be one of our big issues and Iwobi is the only transfer that has tried to address that.
We rely hugely on our full-backs to create opportunities and, although I'm not Sigurdsson's biggest fan, he is hampered by a system that attacks almost exclusively down the flanks or on the counter. This is why we struggle so much against packed defences with tall centre-backs. Silva needs to be able to instill more versatile methods of breaking teams down and the ability to build more through the middle.
I think Iwobi can hopefully help with this as he is very good at getting the ball from the middle third into the final third with both dribbling and high amount of completed passes into the final third. Could be that he replaces Barnard or could be that he plays instead of Sigurdsson and gives us a more dynamic central option.
300 Posted 11/08/2019 at 09:40:15
I thought Richarlison looked a bit more muscular and tougher yesterday, like he had filled out a little over that last few months. That started me thinking about trying again playing him in his preferred role through the centre. I am positive that is where he will end up.
Moise Kean on the wide right, where he will find more space to attack; Iwobi on the left, using his pace. I am sure Silva will consider it at some point, it is the recipe for a successful and dynamic front 3.
Class, youth and pace from all angles is a potent combination as long as the wide men can be taught to track back and defend, like Richarlison and Bernard have been drilled to do.
301 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:04:26
What you have described is the problem and the actual situation in the game. It has been for some time.
I would also add the speed of movement and passing in the middle and final third. I also thought that fitness was a contributing factor as well. Slow build-up, back-passing, few runs into space, and crosses with no-one at the end of them.
302 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:21:37
Plus Kean prefers to come inside from the left, not the right. It will be interesting to see what happens anyway. I still stand by dropping Siggi, especially after yesterday. s performance and the pre-season he had
303 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:33:02
If he maintains form, then he will make a significant difference to the points total this season.
304 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:39:13
Yes, it's our first home game, sold out, very vocal home crowd willing him on – this is the perfect match for us to find out what this young fella has to offer, or of course stick with Calvert-Lewin and see what happens again with him or Tosun.
It's time for change – isn't this why we bought him?
I don't know if Mosie Kean will do the business for us, but I know that our current strikers are not scoring or getting in the right areas, so my thoughts are: fire him up and get him on and let's see what all the fuss is about when we signed him.
I don't agree with those who say the reason Calvert-Lewin not scoring is not all down to him. Certainly a lot of it is; yes, he might not get a lot of chances but, when he does, he rarely takes them. He's a big strong lad, who should be a massive aerial threat... but he's not and, for me, he doesn't work or bully defenders enough.
Top strikers and goal scorers find the space, they anticipate what's going to happen, and when they get their chance, the best of them put the ball in the net or at least make the keeper work.
I'm not saying and have never said Calvert-Lewin is useless – far from it – but he is not the goalscorer we desperately need right now. So yes, let's see what the young Italian can do and keep our fingers crossed.
305 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:48:13
Pickford was excellent, did all you can expect from your goalkeeper making two vital saves and decent distribution in very difficult conditions.
Coleman lots of effort, should have done better with his chance but fade in the second half. Most of the threat from Palace came from his side.
Digne, very good first half and defended well second but less of a threat going forward, partly because Bernard faded in the second half.
Keane and Mina were both excellent throughout, looked very solid and assured. Distribution good, aerial duels very good and tackling/interceptions excellent. Mina looks a bit gangly at times but I think that is just his physique and has all the hallmarks of future great (fingers crossed). Biggest compliment I can pay both is that we didn't miss Zouma. Early days but lots to be optimistic about.
Gomes, excellent but was carrying a knock from early in the game and it only looked like a matter it time before he went off. We lost shape without him which is a bit worrying.
Schneiderlin, was very fired up and getting stuck more than I have seen him before. Unlucky to give away a free-kick that clearly was not a foul and led to the first yellow but really stupid to get the yellow for dissent. Reckless in the second half and a red waiting to happen, should have been substituted after about 60 mins.
Sigurdsson, as always gave 100% in terms of effort. Really piss-poor miss early in the game and looked a bit lost. Although he didn't contribute much today he still has the ability to score a screamer and send through a ball to the forwards. I would have kept him on the pitch and taken Bernard off.
Bernard, did miss one in the first half but was a bit Peter Beagrie today in overdoing things when a simple cross or square pass or attempted through-ball was the better option. Faded in the second half leaving Digne with a lot to do.
Richarlison, tried hard first half but didn't really make much impact and looked off the pace. Came into it more in the second half and looked to be getting better as the game went on. A little bit unlucky with his curling effort which may have gone in on another day.
Calvert-Lewin, lots of effort and as always held the line up well. Suffered from a lack of service but doesn't make the runs or himself available as a striker should. I like Calvert-Lewin but just not a poacher, would be interesting to see him and Kean together at some point.
Gbamin, not sure why he came on ahead of Davies given his match fitness comments before the game. Was caught out a few times by the pace and ferocity if the Premier League. Passing was a bit hit and miss. Some good moments also though, a physical player with good vision and got better as the game went on. No concerns once he is match fit.
Davies, did okay and added some much-needed bite and intensity after the red card. Thought he should have come on ahead of Gbamin.
Kean, received a fabulous reception from the travelling support. Some decent touches but, as with Gbamin, needs time to adjust to the Premier League. Very strong as demonstrated by holding off 3 or 4 Palace players and making a successful pass. Also looks fast when he almost got onto the end of a through ball. Promising.
Marco Silva, should have brought Schneids off before the red card, we could all see it coming and so should he. I thought Bernard should have come off before Siggi and Davies in ahead of Gbamin.
Overall, we should have been out of sight at half-time but ended up thankful to Pickford for a point. Disappointing but plenty of positives particularly in defence and Kean. I think Gbamin will be excellent once he is up to speed.
As always, the travelling support was fantastic and reminded Palace that Zaha is too good for them.
Against Watford, I would make a number of changes:
Kean in for Calvert-Lewin – we need a goal scorer
Iwobi in for Bernard
Gbamin in for Gomes
Davies or Delph in for Schneiderlin
306 Posted 11/08/2019 at 10:52:37
307 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:12:25
I've always thought that routinely playing Sigurdsson in that position was one of our major problems.
308 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:43:23
309 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:43:28
For those on here saying Calvert-Lewin has more to his game than being a goalscorer — that's shite. To be a No 9, he should be alert and fully expectant of the ball coming into the box. He's neither. How many times yesterday did we get the ball wide only for the player in possession to have to check inside because Calvert-Lewin was preening his stubble?
He needs to be in there, making life hell for the centre-halves and ripping them a new arse. He might be good at holding the ball up but what good is that when the wide men are looking for a target men. He seems to think that when he holds the ball up that's his job done. Calvert-Lewin knows that his position is okay for the next few weeks as Kean is not up to speed.
To defend Calvert-Lewin, it's probably not his fault entirely as the club is run like a retirement home. Mind the current incumbents and tolerate the visitors (fans).
As for Sigurdsson, don't get me started... but there's £40M pissed down the drain.
Welcome to Everton's Gentleman's Club, lads.
310 Posted 11/08/2019 at 11:59:39
This 4-2-3-1 obviously isn't working. I personally think a 4-3-3 should be tried. We need to be quicker and more direct. Get the full-backs forward for width. Instead of obsessing about who would be the best No 10 why, not just dispense with it altogether? 4-3-3 works pretty well for the Reds. Maybe we should give it a try.
Coleman Mina Keane Digne
Gbamin Sigurdsson or Delph Gomes
Richarlison Kean Iwobi
311 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:19:50
The 'No 10' is a luxury that in the modern game of high press just doesn't work.
It pushes the wide men like Richarlison too far wide, and leaves the centre forward too easily outnumbered in the box.
People say Calvert-Lewin should be doing this and that, but Palace packed the defense and, with little else coming at them, Calvert-Lewin never stood a chance at getting space to run into.
What we need are two No 8 box-to-box midfielders, like Liverpool have in Henderson and Keira, or what Spurs have in Sissoko (soon to be Lo Celso) and Ndombele. Actually, Spurs play with 3 No 8s often, as Winks is hardly a 'sit back and defend' type.
Point is, none of the top 3 teams play with a 'No 10'.
The wing play is predominately done by the full-backs, the wide forwards cut inside more than outside, and they have at least 2 midfielders pushing forward and supporting the attack. That is 7 players attacking at any one time.
We however have the wing play dominated by 2 forwards, 2 midfielders sitting back, and 1 striker in the box with 1 attacking midfielder just outside the box. Any wonder we struggle to score?
This is why we went for Doucouré. I hope that Davies can grow into the role of a No 8, but there are no guarantees there.
312 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:20:02
313 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:20:10
Gbamin coming on and not Davies was a mistake, given the state of the game and Gbamin's lack of game time.
For me, Bernard should have gone off, not Calvert-Lewin (though Calvert-Lewin has his problems and Silva subbing him says something about SIlva's view of him yesterday, given that Bernard wasn't particularly on fire).
The hairs on the back of my neck stood up as away fans reacted to Kean coming on. Oh for that dream debut goal...
314 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:26:15
How anyone can watch him play and not be utterly frustrated and somewhat angry is beyond me. He's rarely in the correct position when the ball comes into the box, and for a lad his size, he has how many headed goals to his name?
He's not the only reason we didn't win yesterday, and certainly not why we struggled to score last season. Until players like him aren't the only choices available, though, we're not going to be bothering the Top 6. He's not Premier League material, and never will be.
He's 22 and has scored 22 league goals in his career. He should wear 22, which, ironically, was Hibbo's number early on, and we all know what he was like in the attacking half.
315 Posted 11/08/2019 at 12:29:50
Jeez. Somebody is great based on one game? That's a really embarrassing post. "A great manager"! Great!
316 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:00:00
317 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:00:40
Going with one focal striker isn't working. Calvert-Lewin can hold the ball up with someone alongside him to put it in the net. Not rocket science, is it?
318 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:03:35
Your analysis is interesting and explains the lack of inter-passing in the final third, lack of chances, and poor, hurried finishing. I think, as Sam posted, the introduction of Iowbi will help, but the tactics would have to change as you suggest.
319 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:07:49
Jonathon #182, Everton, under Silva, have kept 8 clean sheets in their last 12 Premier League games – second only to City. Brighton have played one Premier League game under Potter so far. Your claims are a bit premature, I would say.
All, there is a new song for Moise Kean doing the rounds, I will get a copy of the words and post it (and no, I don't mean “Keano, Keano”!)
Brent #313, yes good point about Calvert-Lewin. And yes, the support would have gone mental if Kean had scored.
320 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:20:25
I saw loads of little forward passes where I would expect the receiver to turn and play, especially when they are in the little pocket between the midfield and the opposing defence, but we just usually half-turn and play it sideways, and very rarely pull defenders out of position and towards the ball.
You might say it's the system, but I would say it might also be about the personnel that is getting used in the system...
321 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:22:59
I'm curious about how Calvert-Lewin and Kean may work together. Just let Kean roam.
322 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:30:02
Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin, Kean
Iwobi, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin is the only one who can do this job, of the 'false 9'. Maybe Richarlison could do it too, making it Iwobi-Richarlison-Kean, but yes, it would see Richarlison score less goals.
Let's look at Liverpool, I think they most resemble how Silva would like to see us play (whether he can, another debate, I have my doubts).
Midfield of Henderson - Fabinho and Keita or Wijnaldum. Fabinho sitting back, Henderson and Other box-to-box (Slightly different roles- Henderson being more aggressive and direct, the others being more creative).
The wing play is their Full backs, and Mané and Salah just outside the area cutting inwards, they rarely cut outside and cross into the box (which atm is what Rich and Bernard are constantly doing). Firmino is the No 9, he runs the opposition ragged and lays the ball off, he scores about 10-12 goals a season. He is less prolific, but I would hazard a guess in that for Klopp, Firmino is the most important of his front 3.
When he was DCLs age, he was averaging 5-7 goals a season. So in the modern game, the no9 is not the main goalscorer. So goals alone are not how we should judge DCL. (He does need to
Improve, I agree, but I think those criticising him are being overly unfair, it is a big season for him, make or break even, but the tactics at the moment do not help).
Ideally we'd be set up with Gbamin in the Fabinho role, Gomes in the Keita/Wijnaldum role and another in the Henderson role. But Siggy seems unable or unwilling to do this. We have Davies and Delph, maybe one of them can do it, but can we drop our 'star man'? It is a big ask.
If Silva got his man in Doucourè, it may have been easier, but it seems we will spend another season with a tactical set up that doesn't suit the style we want to adopt.
If we want Kean to be prolific, it won't be playing as No 9 in place of Calvert-Lewin, it will be playing in a wide forward role. But he isn't a winger either, so the current tactical setup doesn't help either.
Big moment for Silva. He has to show his tactical and man management acumen to get the best from this team.
323 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:46:21
Gomes was running the show until he was crocked and a really good performance from Mina.
Coleman appears to escape criticism. Time and again he gets free on the right hand side but then fails to deliver a decent cross. I fear his days are numbered.
324 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:47:50
325 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:49:58
326 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:56:48
We had a few good chances in the first half to possibly settle the game there and then, maybe on another day they go in. Results are very often about fine margins and dare I say it, luck of the bounce sometimes.
I'd be inclined to take DCL out of the firing line for a few weeks and stick Richarlison up front for the Watford game, the lads under more and more pressure to score.
It seems Silva prefers to play the style with DCL up front though, so whether that will happen I have my doubts.
327 Posted 11/08/2019 at 13:57:33
I think that Moss's refereeing got Schneiderlin riled plus the failure to blow up for a deliberate dive by Ayew.
watch this used tube video
Pay attention to 5.05 mins and you will see that Ayew does that move allowing the ball to pass through his legs and then turns and runs. Schneiderlin anticipated that move and executed a fantastic tackle on Ayew who then throws himself to ground yelling 'I have been hit' and Moss just buys it and does not punish Ayew. Marco needs to register a complaint about Ayew behaviour This would raise awareness by refs. If the FA can charge Niasse retrospectively then Ayew needs the same treatment.
Check the tackle by Ayew against the player in blue at 2.46 mins approx, who is the ref? and why was that not a foul against Ayew he hits the players legs before he gets the ball.
I would like to apologise to Schneiderlin, fantastic tackle, poor refereeing and shocking gamesmanship by Ayew to get a fellow professional booked.
328 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:05:47
Expecting DCL to adopt the Firmino role is highly amusing, he's light years behind and will never be clever enough. Silva is trying to build a squad of good technicians, but he has a long way to go yet, many more quality players will be needed. Iwobi looks like a good addition though.
329 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:06:39
330 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:10:25
In fairness our strikers are also all 5/6/7 years younger than theirs.
At the same ages as our main strikers now:
Firmino was a non scoring striker at Hoffenheim. Salah couldn't get a game at Chelsea. Mané played in Austria.
331 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:14:17
I would argue that the current set up doesn't do this, hence why need to move to 4-3-3, to make more of Richarlison and Kean or Iwobi in the wide positions.
If DCL does not develop into the role, then we have to see who will play. Would we be happy without ricarlison playing no9 and limiting his goal output?
332 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:28:47
2nd picture Keane is at the ball first and look who is pulling the defenders shirt
Marco definitely needs to raise a complaint.
333 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:36:38
334 Posted 11/08/2019 at 14:38:24
I'd love to see us play 433 but don't think we have the players or the manager to pull. Something isn't right with how we move forward or keep the ball, we just seem too far apart. One thing l used to like about Moyes was the triangles and movement. Richarlison is so wasted out right. Its just not clicking. You cant even say its only the first game of the season. 2 goals in 7 games is ridiculous.
335 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:00:34
336 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:10:36
However this particular formation is all in, no hiding places. If you are weak in any area it collapses around you. The whole team profits from playing higher up the park, squeezing the play and attempting to turn the ball over high up the field, with huge numbers to transform a transition into a high quality chance.
A bad 4-3-3 quickly disintegrates into a 4-5-1, isolating the centre forward and cramping the full backs. Thats worries me.
We do not have the players to execute this anywhere near the level to make a success of it.
Sadly our ‘Achilles heel or hell is breaking down poor sides, 4-2-3-1 aint the solution, never ever enough players in the box to score. Yesterday is a very suitable example, did Gomes or Schniederlin ever threaten their box? Whilst 4-3-3 with midfielders willing to break forward and beyond certainly gives poorer sides a much harder time to combat.
Frustratingly we seem to be in between both tactics.
I think that sums it up, somewhere in between!
337 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:17:16
338 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:19:11
339 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:28:15
I am currently flicking between Leicester v Wolves and Newcastle v Arsenal, (as we play Wolves soon) and neither game is exactly a riveting watch. Fact they are both a bit stale with the odd flash of expectation.
So if they stay like that it puts our 'result' yesterday as not too bad. However and it's been said many times before, we can't rely on other teams' forms/results we should be concentrating on our own outcomes.
We have an excellent chance of gaining a decent foothold with the fixtures we have (next few weeks) so let's make the most of them!
340 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:50:38
cant you see we are only 1 point off the bottom of the table.
341 Posted 11/08/2019 at 15:57:46
342 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:00:45
343 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:01:21
You are right about Ayew, he should have 2 yellows before Schneids got his second yellow, the shirt pull you mention was very obvious and clinical.
344 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:12:37
We'd all like to see 4 3 3, but we don't have Salah, et al. I honestly don't think we have had the players for such at attacking formation since Kanchelskis and Limpar being in the same team.
345 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:17:55
Now these are supposed to be Professional Footballers, and should know better than we do, you don't argue or dispute decisions with the referee. He is never going to say " Sorry Old Chap I appear to have gaffed there, I will rescind the Yellow/Red, Oh silly old me ".
He is more likely to award one for challenging his decision whether you were the player involved in the alleged incident or not. It's like the kid who sees other kids with an ice-cream and wants one too.
Yes they often make mistakes, not the kids the referee, so leave it for the Authorities to (rarely/hopefully sort it out after the game) rather than risk being sent off and putting your team-mates under pressure with numbers reduced.
346 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:23:36
347 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:31:39
Kean came from Juve to wear the royal blue,
He gets the ball and theres nothing he cant do,
Marcel Brands got him without a buy back clause,
And well go mental every time he scores.
Di, di, di, di, di. Di, di, di, di, di, di
348 Posted 11/08/2019 at 16:46:29
With a little tweak that could be sung to Forever Everton
349 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:20:10
Given away a penalty and is making mistake after mistake, according to the BBC.
350 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:21:17
351 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:24:37
352 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:25:57
Best game I 've seen this season so far until our game next week, against our friends Watford?
353 Posted 11/08/2019 at 17:41:57
It has been long argued on ToffeeWeb about the need for a savour striker. But Brands and Silva have not gone that way. Kean has not been brought in as a Calvert-Lewin replacement, though he may be brought in as his substitute. In my opinion, his role will be to play off a holding centre forward. Tosun initially played the holding forward role, but though he worked hard, could not maintain the high press, Sigurdsson became anonymous. Calvert-Lewinas the holding forward can maintain the high press, giving Sigurdsson more space. Tosun was given the chance to play off the holding centre-forward, but did not have the pace and necessary finishing ability. Calvert-Lewindid score more when Tosun partnered him.
Sigurdsson and other players, rather than playing telling passes through the centre, play passes down the channels and shoot when the centre opens up. The problem of playing down the channels is it pushes the forwards wide and reduces the chance of interplay between forwards in the final third. To some defences playing down the channels is a gift, enabling them to bottle up any attacks
In playing against the top four teams, the high press is the most effective ways of containing them. Man City and Liverpool do not enjoy playing Everton.
I hope that Iowbi is more effective in the final third in the use of the ball, than Sigurdsson. Both Bernard and Richarlison would benefit. Walcott's contribution has always been limited.
356 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:26:39
357 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:36:39
358 Posted 11/08/2019 at 19:42:28
Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Richarlison Bernard Iwobe
Drop Sigurdsson. Put Bernard at the 10. See what happens. Sigurdsson can come off the bench if the Bernard experiment doesn't come good.
Bernard is a creative player with sublime touch and vision. This is what we need – someone feeding our goal scorers.
I've been saying this for almost a year now. I can't believe it's not been tried to date.
One thing is for sure. If Sigurdsson starts, Silva's missed a sublime opportunity to send a message, that if you don't perform, there's a player behind you who will get the opportunity to do so. And that would naturally raise our game collectively as a team.
I like Gylfi. He's a good footballer. But we need to be bold this season. If we start naming the same 11, despite poor performances, it'll be another 50-something point season, I'd bet.
359 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:00:22
I'd like to see Calvert-Lewin up front with Kean but your team looks the biz to me.
360 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:03:56
361 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:08:56
I really like the look of that team. Pace and guile up top
362 Posted 11/08/2019 at 21:48:07
363 Posted 11/08/2019 at 23:30:40
364 Posted 11/08/2019 at 23:58:35
Palace set themselves up exactly the same as the last time Everton played them. It was nearly a carbon copy of the last meeting.
What they did was for most of the game have bodies in the final third between Everton and the Palace goals, looking for a goal in the final quarter of the game.
They were able to do this, because of a slow Everton bui!d-up and passing across their defensive line and very few link passes through it.
Sigurdsson is too slow and not creative enough. He passes a lot sideways, as options in front of him dry up, as a result. I would replace him with Iwobi. The other midfielders pass to the wings a lot also. The midfield trio need to interplay more, with more tandem movement. I think Gbamin will eventually help with this. The Everton forward line is stretched wide as result of this sideways movement and tend to run into channels, getting bottled up or into unfavourable shooting positions. Wing play should be provided by overlapped wing-backs.
Richardson and Kean should be moving in on goal. I would play Kean off Calvert-Lewin. When Tosun played off Calvert-Lewin, the play being higher up the pitch enabled Calvert-Lewin to get into more centre-forward positions. Tosun has no pace or a shot, so wasn't good enough, ; interplay was out. Kean is good enough.
Everton have one of the lowest pass completion rates in the final third in the Premier League because such passes are rarely attempted. Faster forward momentum from the midfield, playing through the centre more, with more forward movement and interplay (the old one-two) in the attacking zone, at speed, will remedy this and get rid of the body problem.
Everton have the players to finish in space, who won't be trying to score through bodies and will have their forwards in positions with more options to do so as a result.
I would play Bernard deeper and Sigurdsson more forward as an alternative.
As Brands said, scoring options from more than one forward. The Saviour Centre-Forward, a preference of many, is not the solution.
365 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:01:41
366 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:11:52
367 Posted 11/08/2019 at 00:16:54
I think your thoughts are pretty spot on mate. Silva needs to be more ruthless and create genuine competition for places by wielding the axe and making changes when a player does not perform. Sigurdsson did not perform adequately on Saturday for me and therefore should be the player to make way for Iwobi in the starting line up for the Watford game.
One further thing I would like to add: Iwobi does regard himself as an Attacking Midfielder so therefore, should also be considered for the Sigurdsson role along with Bernard. Iwobi is also the youngest of the three players under consideration and seemingly has the skill set to succeed as a Number 10.
I will not be holding my breath though! We need to beat Watford whoever plays!!
368 Posted 12/08/2019 at 00:34:55
He is what I would describe as a manufactured footballer. He works incredibly hard for the team and leads the line reasonably well. Unfortunately, he does not have a natural strikers instinct, finishing ability or luck. He will develop into a physical freak like Ronaldo and if can score a couple of goals and gain some confidence and composure should be assured of a decent Premier League career. I can't see him being the answer for a top side as a first-choice centre forward though.
On Moise Kean we do need patience. The lad has not been playing 90 minutes regularly. He has been an impact player in a hugely dominant team. He obviously has bags of raw ability, pace and does know where the net is. Let's get behind this kid, roar him on, encourage and support. Likewise let's keep supporting young Dominic's workrate and hope his graft is rewarded with some goals.
369 Posted 12/08/2019 at 05:03:36
I too have been suggesting the idea for some time. It may not work but, if it did, I am sure we would create far more chances than we currently do. I was mocked for suggesting this but still believe Bernard should, at the very least, be tried in Sigurdsson's position.
370 Posted 12/08/2019 at 05:41:31
Calvert-Lewin is doing the job Silva is asking him to do. He is dependent on others to provide the right pass. Everton have one of the lowest pass completion rates in the Premier League in the final third, because such passes are not being attempted; how can he score?
I agree with Bernard as a Number 10 alternative. He is faster than Sigurdsson and more adept at the shorter pass. The emphasis of the attack is too deep with Sigurdsson as Number 10.
371 Posted 12/08/2019 at 07:37:20
He is arguably the most gifted footballer we have with regards ball control, touch and skill. He is always quick thinking for the next pass, sometimes too far ahead of his team mates.
In the No 10 role he is the best available in the team to find a millisecond of space. To slide or lift a ball through the defensive line to Kean through the middle. Or wider angled to Iwobi or Richarlison timing sprints through the defensive line. Sigurdsson hasn't got that ability to do that to anywhere near that extent.
In games like on Saturday a team needs that creator to break down the regulation defence. Similar tactics will need countering against Watford.
It needs someone like Bernard on the ball in the right area of the pitch. More and more I think his skill set is unsuited to being out wide on the left and would be more at home and productive at No 10.
His defensive duties out wide have improved all the time over the last 6 months, so I don't see why that should regress with him being at No 10. He tackles back well and can be like an angry gnat in the tackle when trying to win the ball back.
The proof maybe whether he can manufacture the goals and assists from that position when it is tried. And whether we can consider forfeiting Sigurdsson's goals. [Anyway we can still have 30 mins of Siggy as sub when needed.]
One thing is for sure: Siggy can't turn up with his flip flops on next Saturday, he needs to be right on his game or be dropped.
It's not just against Watford , but breaking down stubborn and formulaic defences throughout the season needs to be better thought out. In Bernard, we have a player that gives us an option to try something that is both logical and different.
372 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:09:48
It was a perfect storm for a sketchy performance so 0-0 wasn't the end of the world. We all get annoyed and feel deflated after the summer, and new season optimism which gets immediately swept away on a tide of misery but it's not entirely fair to use one game as the yardstick for the season ahead.
We'll be okay with this squad I reckon, and we still have plenty to look forward to with new players once things start to gel. A little patience is required, which we Evertonians aren't that great at!
373 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:30:44
374 Posted 12/08/2019 at 11:54:26
375 Posted 12/08/2019 at 12:04:13
Okay it was later in the season, April if memory serves, but basically they knew what to expect in terms of our attacks. I believe they have to be varied from game to game, maybe this is what Marco Silva is working up to, but there were no signs of it.
Like I said previously in this thread it's no use dominating possession, if you don't turn that into a win. There are no points awarded for possession only wins, and superior goal difference helps if you manage to score.
376 Posted 12/08/2019 at 12:11:30
As the Palace game showed, he goes missing far too often in matches and does not do enough to help the team win regularly. One world class goal every 4 or 5 games cannot cover that up.
We need a Number 10 in his position who is creating chance after chance for others every game and running the show. I agree that Bernard could be that player and should start there instead.
378 Posted 13/08/2019 at 13:52:06
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