Early promise turns to a dismal farce

Personally I can't wait to see him team up with Maupay. It will be like having a brand new signing. He's never really played for us in a team with so many good players in it.

Last week we seemed to struggle with Iwobi playing too far forward and him, Gray and McNeill consistently swapping positions. Let Onana be the further forward of the central three.

We always give united a game and tonight we have the players to do so. Let's go.

Do we have a passing coach?

We've been so bad this half...why?

Do we have a passing coach?

We've been so bad this half...why?

Don't players tackle anymore? Why isn't Gordon playing?

I predict we'll improve now we're behind. Now we know what to do - when we get the ball we need to attack.

Lord knows what they think they're supposed to do on the ball when they're winning.

Giving the ball away in the midfield that cost us 2 goals.

Could have been more.

All 3 central players have had their issues but at least Gana and Iwobi are running.. Onana is sauntering around the pitch like a zombie.

Pathetic.

Players don't look interested, crowd is quiet for a night game against United.

Gordon should have started on the bench and come on with DCL late on.

Coleman I actually feel pity for because he should still be playing top flight football really, the body won't do what the mind wants nowadays.

Lampard needs to sort this shit out because we've made this far too easy for United, we've got two teak tough away trips after this.

I said it in summer and I'll say it again, he's not a £60 million pound player.

Id have took the money and reinvested in two strikers.

But what bothers me most is the lack of running off the ball in attack. Nobody is creating space for passes, pushing the backline, moving the defenders. Maupay and Gordon are the prime offenders there.

Only Onana has fully met the standard so far. Time for everybody else to raise their game.

I wonder if Frank will stick with the Onana and Gueye or twist and bring Garner on. Replacing DCL for Maupay wouldn't make much diffefrence if he's not getting the service.

It is only half-time, let's see what Lampard does.

Showing what a world class player is.

It would be stunning if we turned it round but have we the gonads?

10 Oct over, watch the blues in lack of training and passing in a live game.

Something is not working.

That's what happens when players can't do the basics and we don't have any clinical goal threat.

Couple of good results but the same old problems remain, don't they.

No creativity at all in midfield and two wingers that are basically one-trick poneys.

The loss of Patterson will do for us as well. I don't mean to harp on about Coleman but it's like playing with 10 men.

We looked better with DCL, Rondon and McNeil on. Worries me that we did well at Old Trafford last season but then came the Watford debacle and we dropped like a stone.

We still need creativity and goals. DCL needs to stay fit. We need Patterson back because Coleman is too old now.

Not great from Onana, but he is going to have off days at his age, he's still learning. Frank is going to have to decide how he plays up front, one up front isn't causing enough trouble for the opposition's defence.

Every game – it's driving me absolutely mad.

Lampard really needs to learn how to use his subs to influence the game, he always leaves it too late.

Gueye was a mistake. Maupay likewise.

We're nowhere near where we want to be. Work in progress for at least another 18 months.

Still need another striker, creative midfielder and wideman.

Crucial wins against West Ham and Southampton have given us some breathing space for now.

I'd stick Onana up as a support for the striker if only for nuisance factor because in midfield he's giving that possession up far too easily.

Push Iwobi to play next to Gana and let him pull strings from there.

Give Gordon three weeks on the bench to get his head right because he's not at it right now.

When all is said and done we just lack top-drawer quality, don't we? We've watched Eriksen and Casemiro tonight, that's what top quality is.

I look at us and I think if the effort isn't at the absolute maximum it can be, then we are going to struggle to win games again.

Two nasty fixtures coming up where I can't see us making much impact if I'm honest, so the Palace game at Goodison in two weeks set to be a big 'un once again.

Yes, this performance was more bad than good but it wasn't quite the capitulation and lack of heart that some are making out.

The reality is, this doesn't change much. We're looking to avoid the drop and are on target to do that. We'll need around 8 wins from the remaining fixtures.

Just listless everywhere, that was like the worst of last season. Where was the energy, the press, the raucous Goodison evening bearpit was absent as well for some reason.

Changes for the next game: Garner looks an upgrade on Onana or Gueye, I'd start him and Doucouré to keep the other midfielders honest.

Nothing from the full-backs going forward today at all, that doesn't help.

Hopefully just an off day but our next few fixtures are not friendly, big improvement needed from minute 1 next week.

However, I can't believe how bad Lampard was / first time I've had no faith in him at all. How could he not change it half time and earlier second half. Lucky to only lose 2-1.

I know you're not a fan of Coleman, but if you think we were playing with 10 men, you mustn't have seen the mistakes from our midfield, or watched Gordon's toothless performance tonight. Garner deserves a start against Spurs.

Special mention to Garner on his debut. Looked completely composed and brought out an absolutely brilliant save from De Gea. If Gana keeps it up with the suicide passing, Garner is going to start sooner rather than later.

And another special mention to Onana, who won big midfield challenges and took care of the ball really well. Only starter who didn't have an ugly giveaway. Love his aggression in the box, even if his heading accuracy isn't good yet. I can't remember when I've been so impressed by a young player's first eight starts.

We hopefully have improved to ensure no relegation issues this season but, even after Gueye, Onana, Coady, Tarkowski additions, we still lack quality and pace down the spine. Ronaldo's goal showed Coady's lack of pace.

Gordon is way off the level he showed late last season, early this season. He just walks around, he doesn't read danger, doesn't create space to receive the ball.

They had a 30 minute spell that exposed a few shortcomings.

Drissa had his worst ever game in an Everton shirt. If he performed anywhere near his usual standard we wouldn't have conceded those two goals nor been as easy to cut through during that first half.

It's that solid foundation that has allowed us to go and win games and I think the forward running impetus from Fernandes, Martial, Rashford and Antony caught us cold when conceding possession.

I know Demarai Gray has many fans amongst the Evertonians. Not me. He offers us nothing but pace.

I saw enough from James Garner in a very short spell that showed me a clever footballer, technically proficient and able to create. Gray despite his pace has virtually no creative input. It is very rare he'll beat a man and fret a chance.

Garner looks the kind of player who doesn't even need to beat a man to create a chance.

I think long term we will be better served with Garner Gordon Maupay and Calvert-Lewin as our starting forward line.

Gordon will give us width and pace on either flank whereas Garner will be on the flank but adaptable to moving centrally when out of possession or regaining it.

Most importantly. We need to bounce back and not get beaten by Spurs. A draw there will be an excellent result.

They gave us a lesson, they have much better players than us and they turned up.

We will be ok but are still a work in progress.

And as for Gordon, never been a fan. Also can someone please tell our manager that subs can be made while we are still drawing, and before 60-minute mark.

Joe (162), I don't think any manager would ‘predict' the gift we made of their second. Making a change that early would have been a bizarre choice for me.

On the fullbacks, I thought Mykolenko did alright and Seamus was up against a strong United left flank who would have troubled him even 5 years ago.

I agree with you about Gordon, he's a one-trick pony at the moment.

If I know what he's going to do every time he gets the ball, then surely opposition fullbacks will also know?

Same as Demarai Gray, isn't it.

We don't we possess a player with a football brain still? That's why it would have been orgasmic to see us sign Christian Eriksen but obviously didn't happen.

As stated, Lampard needs to be a bit more savvy too, take Onana out of that midfield because he's getting a bit of a hammering at times and his passing is awful, throw him up as an auxiliary second striker until something settles down.

Down to earth with a bang.

This was a poor team performance riddled with individual mistakes and lethargy. Man Utd were not that good either, but we could hardly string a pass together!

Frankly, I am not sure any changes would have been sufficient to prevent that loss. Too many off days when you only have 5 subs.

Antony and Ronaldo couldn't believe their luck, their goals came gift-wrapped from our mistakes. Got away with a couple of howlers against Southampton, better teams punish you. That sloppiness in central midfield has to be cut out like a gangrenous sore. Pass Frank the scalpel.

Positives? Despite the shocking first-half display, we somehow could have salvaged a point, we came close. Garner looked good, did enough to deserve a start, he has given Frank food for thought for the next match. DCL is unscathed and will hopefully be fitter again and a starter from now on too.

I think we have to remain balanced in our criticism and not go over the top on slagging anyone off. It's not going to be a cakewalk to the Top 6 where we want to be. This season is one of consolidation and steps toward that initial goal. I've still got plenty of faith that we are heading in the right direction, despite this setback.

Do you think Gray would provide more output for the team with DCL to service? I'm not sure he would as his final ball is poor. Do you rate him?

A football team needs pace. I think this is the only quality he offers our team. McNeil and Garner are the kind of players who'll benefit from having DCL to pick out.

Good goal from Iwobi. And interesting how he was converted to the right full-back position later in the game. A suggestion I made a couple of years ago that was met with much ridicule.

The same people who ridiculed also cited Iwobi having a complete lacks of guts to play such a position. Basically labelled the guy a bottler. I don't have the time to research and directly quote this ridicule. But there was much of it from quite prominent members of this website.

Back to missing MotD again. Everton are, as always, a hard watch.

We've got this tight enough back line with 3 hard working midfielders in front of it. That will work when we drop back and we're hard to break down.

The problem is when we get the ball. We won't retain possession and, even if we did, we don't have the creativity to do much with it.

So why bother? We're at our best when we move the ball quickly and use the pace that we've now got in the side. Unfortunately, any time we hit the front we start trying to retain possession and it's an absolute disaster. We're nowhere near good enough for that.

For the first Man Utd goal, Gueye and Iwobi and had no intent at all. They just didn't want to give the ball away. And sure enough they gave it away with both in no-man's land. What's the point of working hard to win the ball if you're not going to bother trying to do something with it? It's not the first time with Idrissa. It's not even the second time.

For their second, we had no-one making any kind of run for Iwobi. It was 'stay back, stay safe' kind of stuff. And sure enough, it's not safe – it's suicide against good teams.

Credit to United. They were very good tonight. But I'd like to have seen us apply some pressure. We were our own worst enemy.

Be positive. Attack when you've got the ball!

Yes, tonight was poor but be honest here we are, a work in progress. Frank hasn't been here 12 months and already he's changed the whole mood of the club, got rid of a lot of the leeches off the wage bill and signed some decent players.

He's also made Iwobi look a quality player and who would have thought that this time last year?

Yes, I'm disappointed about tonight's performance but overall, looking at the bigger picture, it's looking better than it has for a good few years.

I have to disagree, mate, I don't believe we had to be at our best. I think if we'd have played at 75% of our ability, we wouldn't have lost.

Unfortunately after a good start (too good?) we played well below what was required to get even a point.

Almost every player was below par for most or all of the game and allowed Utd to build their confidence and start to enjoy some crisp passing and good movement.

As their confidence grew ours plummeted and individual errors cost us both goals.

Second half not much better. We were lucky our goal difference didn't take a massive hit.

This week at Finch Farm, maybe Lampard might get them to practise passing to each other?

Really disappointed.

Gueye was poor and Iwobi looked like the Iwobi of old despite his brilliant goal.

Gray is ineffective and isn't good enough. I wish Lampard was more proactive and made changes earlier. A really disappointing performance by the team.

Garner looks a good option and Calvert-Lewin coming back a bonus.

We beat ourselves today, bad day at the office, but we will bounce back.

The whole midfield were poor tonight. Gueye was his usual self. Caught in possession. Didn't press or track back. Failed to protect the defence and didn't look interested.

Onana looked raw. Gordon was dreadful. Gray flitted in and out. Mykolenko should be replaced by Vinagre. Calvert-Lewin should start now he's fit.

Get the Spurs game out the way, then we have some winnable matches.

Good to see Calvert-Lewin back and a glimpse of Garner but there was nothing more to take from that performance.

We'll finish somewhere around 13th, I expect, which will be about right on the long road of improvement. United were indeed several levels above us.

Sadly, Gordon looks as though he wants to be somewhere else.

I disagree that no-one played well. I thought Onana had a good game and, if it wasn't for him, we would probably be looking at a heavier defeat.

It's a game we were still in right up to the last minute, which last season or so it would've been a 4-1 or 5-1 crumbling.
This side will have days like today; we are not the finished article, there's loads of work to do, but let's not be too hard on them.

I didn't think Gray and Gordon were effective enough. They didn't cover their full-backs well enough either. Leaving them wide open at times.

Gordon looked goosed after 35 minutes again. Give the lad some Shredded wheat or use him as an impact sub.

We don't have a player like Eriksen or Fernàndes who just dictate the play. That's what's missing – it's all too predictable. Gana didn't play well, maybe needs a game out to let him know he's no automatic starter.

Lessons to be learned, let's learn them and not repeat them.

Still lots of work to be done by the manager and coaches, United were far too good for the Blues without us giving them the mistakes that provided both their goals.

One bright spot was the few minutes Garner was on the field. It looked like he had at least the energy that was missing in quite a few of our players, all of them mentioned in previous posts many times.

Playing poorly is one thing but playing as carelessly as they did tonight shouldn't be tolerated, yet it was for over an hour by Lampard. You've got to do better, Frank, making very late substitutions or not enough is a constant error of judgement on your part.

We have improved so one poor performance and a loss is allowed but this performance is a wake-up call, it really was that bad.

I thought we were as poor today as we were against Southampton. Different opponents, different results.

It's not doom and gloom. It's reality. We're not that good a side and there will be times that we found out.

Frank (and the leadership) have done a great job. They've added a defence and a spine to the team. We'll be hard to beat – United can attest to that having just whipped us for most of the game and still needing two mistakes to get the result.

Unfortunately we still desperately lack quality. Without two decent full-backs, we'll continue to be a defensive team hoping to nick a goal. Lots to like about Mykolenko's commitment but he's not good on the ball. There'll be a time very soon when we need to upgrade him.

Gueye, Iwobi, Onana is pretty solid and full of running. Until you give them the ball. There's plenty of potential in Onana to be a pain in the opposition's backside though. It's a lot to expect Garner to be the answer, but he showed enough tonight to give him a chance.

Maupay is what we thought he was. Bit of a pain, and at least he's a striker, but not exactly exceptional in any part of his game.

McNeil deserves time but he's been very underwhelming. Gray is frustrating – but I'll live with frustrating for someone who can actually make things happen. Gordon can be a real asset – but his drop in form is alarming. Hopefully he's still getting over whatever he had as he looks listless at present.

As for Frank, he's done a lot of good but his lack of subs is frustrating. He's got my support – he just needs to convince the midfield that it's okay to be positive on the ball when defending a lead.

Overall, we're seeing progress. But talk of Top 7 is very premature. We're midtable at best right now.

It's a fear factor we must overcome. Individual mistakes cost us. Learn from it and move on.

Individual mistakes cost us. The quality of their 䀆M winger and world's highest goalscorer were the difference.

I was more disappointed with our set-up. With a 5'-7" centre-forward, we should have started either Rondon or Calvert-Lewin. I like Maupheys work rate but, let's face i,t he isn't good enough. We caused them issues in the last 10 mins with a bit of endeavour and crosses.

With Gordon suspended, it will be interesting who Lampard picks next week. I wouldn't mind seeing Garner get a game.

Iwobi was my MotM again.

Football is all about opinions and everyone is entitled to them. If you honestly thought Onana had a good game, then fair enough.

I still maintain not one player deserves a plus. The performance from the starting outfield players, in my opinion, was shocking. No energy and basic skills such as passing abysmal.

If we continue playing like that, then this season will be a Groundhog Day to last season.

You seem quite happy with keeping one in and dropping the other one which is where you lost me. I think Demarai Gray has been more consistent and offered more than Anthony Gordon has so far this season.

The one bad thing he did or tried to do led directly to their 2nd goal. It's hard to criticise him but hopefully another lesson in when to try and dribble and when not to.

As is often the way when we take an early lead (not very often), it appears the players didn't know what to do. For the rest of the first half, we chased shadows, didn't press as a team and got completely outplayed.

Despite our poor performance, we only lost because of our own clumsy, stupid, mistakes which should give some positivity, but too often our passing out from and around the back just isn't good enough. Too many mistakes that hadn't been previously punished.

'Old man' Eriksen ran the show for them. 1 or 2 passes and Utd were in on goal too easily. I'm more surprised they only scored two goals with us playing a high line and seemingly not marking the other 'old man', Ronaldo.

It's a setback. But we have to be positive and move on quickly. We can be better and we need to ensure we are fully focused. There were too many unforced errors and not taking control in clearing danger or seeing danger.

A reality check that we are a long way behind the top teams – and Man Utd are not a top team.

First, everybody on the pitch wants to give Iwobi the ball, and he usually does good things with it. Today he made a couple of really poor decisions, and one of them cost us the gamewinner. But he also scored a great goal and has been superb this season, so I'm inclined to write off today as a blip.

Second, I don't think we need an upgrade on Mykolenko anytime soon. His defensive work just keeps getting better and better. On the ball, he was poor a couple of times today but he's so aggressive with his attacking runs that I'm willing to give him time to learn -- remember he's played just 21 games in the Premier League, and under hideous personal circumstances. He'll never be Patterson in attack, but I see skill there, and great potential.

Finding a solution is a harder, longer, but not impossible job... We're about where we should be.

Last 20 minutes, we saw that, actually, we could take them on. If we'd taken that approach from the start, it might have been a different outcome.

Also, 2 goals from midfield mistakes – what the fuck is happening behind that? Losing the ball in the middle of the park shouldn't necessarily mean you concede. So, so frustrating.

Anthony Gordon. I see a kid who kicks the ball and runs, no close control. For a young lad, he has zero stamina, I don't see a Premier League player.

The way it is up top, I'm happy to see Rondon come on.

If we end up in the Top 10 I'll be amazed.

I'm more confident of avoiding the drop but I doff my cap to Lampard and Thelwell in achieving that modicum of success on the pitch given the quagmire of governance ineptitude they and we are annually subjected to.

Comments about players mis-controlling the ball, ceding possession, etc etc are like someone in the Black Death posting their ambition to move to another allegedly healthier street in their plague-infested town.

The canker remains.

The second half was an improvement from the first half; there were still mistakes but, as a team, there were improvements.
The manager as well as the players are on a learning curve and, as we can use up to 5 players to freshen up the team, I believe he waits too long to make changes now we are getting a decent bench.

Overall, it was a bad day but, as long as we learn from the mistakes, we should improve. It will not be the last poor game but, as long as the manager and players accept that it was a poor team performance, the individuals who will be aware of the mistakes they made will improve with it.

Iwobi 20 yards in the United half looking for the overlap, Coleman standing stock still 10 yards in our half, wondering "Should I stay or should I go?"

Clash of minds perhaps. Dreadful stuff. Kick up the arse time and a realization that the French League is not the English Premier League for some players.

There is no excuse now, when you can now use 5 subs and have more options from the bench. Not the first time we have acted too late with the subs and it will not be the last time.

What I've also noted is we will have a sub ready and waiting to come on, then the opposing teams will call someone from the bench, and Everton let them put their sub on first before ours.

I would come up with Frank knowing Man Utd played on Thursday, so he left the subs until the last 15 mins, in the hope that they tire, and at the same time, our subs have an impact, but our subs are coming on too late in other games.

Like I say, no excuses now to leave it so late, when you can make up to 5 subs.

Our bench is weak, every week, compared to more than half the Premier League clubs.

Expecting Lampard to make game-changing changes during a match is like expecting Liz Truss to come up with a decent explanation as to why food banks proliferate under Tory governments.

It's unfeasible and unbelievable. At least Lampard, for now, realises it's pointless to try.

That said the suggestion we should have attacked as City did… well, City have good attackers and we don't. They also have good defenders and gave up three goals in the process.

It seems to me Frank tried to keep it tight and hit them on the counter and it worked until we handed them two goals. After that, make any subs you want but the reality is we have very little attacking threat and, if we'd gone too cavalier, it could have ended up 4 or 5 goals for them.

Gordon is predictably having second-season syndrome. Whether he's over-hyped, arrogant, feeling the pressure, or just simply being more closely guarded, he's struggling – as is often the way after a breakout season.

Neither our midfielders nor full-backs offer much going forward so it's down to Iwobi and Gray. The former tends to stay deep, the latter is just hit and miss and, even if he hits Maupay, he is hit and miss.

We have essentially half a decent team but, given the lack of money and time in role for Frank and Kevin, that is to be expected. The next two games will be tough and it may be two more defeats. But overall we are moving in the right direction; it's just frustrating to accept the old adage "Rome wasn't built in a day". It's a cliche but it's true.

I agree, he needs a game off or so and give Doucouré, Garner, or Davies a chance.

Worringly gave away possession far too easily. Reminded me of last week. Only against better opposition, you get punished, even though that isn't a great United team.

We looked very open in the middle of the pitch. As I watched, I think it was a deliberate tactic by United. I don't know if anyone else would agree, but I thought they stretched the pitch very well and used width that we struggled with. Made the pitch big in the traditional sense and it stretched our midfield. It literally pulled us apart and created acres of space.

That said, we didn't totally collapse and despite playing poorly almost came close to clawing a point back towards the end. We stayed in the game and had a chance. Something that will be a trait we should know. As the saying goes, the good teams get something even when they don't play well. We're not too far off from that.

A disappointing performance and defeat. But that's football. It's gone. We're progressing. The next match is the focus.

In the first minute, Onana played the ball to Gordon and then pointed to where he wanted the return but Gordon just seemed to aim at the farthest corner flag and then went missing for the rest of the time he was on.

Iwobi's was a marvelous goal but again only after Gray had seemed to spoil the chance which led to us sitting back as though all we had to do was keep them out for 85 minutes.

But again, Gana was at fault for the equalizer; maybe you can get away with that in slow-motion France and he seemed to put more energy into trying to deny it was his fault but then nearly did it again.

For the second, Iwobi got caught trying to be fancy but it did destroy the myth that seems to be building up about our two central defenders who were walking out rather than moving up quickly to put the United player (Ronaldo) offside or make him move back.

The half also showed that, while Maupay puts in a lot of effort, we really do need a striker who can get into scoring positions.

Second half looked like we might let in more than a few as United showed how to get men forward and under the old "rules" that would not have been a disallowed goal as it was more ball to hand, but that's today's messed with rules.

When eventually we got Calvert-Lewin o,n we seemed to stop playing wingers despite having Gray and McNeil on the pitch but Iwobi seemed to be moved wide which we know is not the best use of him.

I couldn't finish without again giving special mention to another display of inconsistent if not biased refereeing.

Onana was rightly booked while Gordon was for a perfectly good tackle but when United's players did the same there was hardly a free-kick given. And what is the point of Linesmen, persons or assistants if they are instructed or not prepared to flag for offside or fouls until after the play has finished or the VAR tells them to?

United seemed more comfortable on the ball and a little quicker than we were but we would not be that much behind them if we can find more of a cutting-edge up front. We need somebody who not only keeps the opposition central-defenders honest but actually presents a goal-scoring danger in the box.

Our MotM? Didn't really have one but, if pushed, probably Onana and maybe I might like to see a bit more of Garner.

In-game management is not a natural thing. Some have it, some don't, but Frank is learning. We as fans have to remember that, as frustrating as it is when we all can see the opposition may be there for the taking, or we could at least compete with them.

A window or two will help him. Maybe a tough month but we will get there. coyb.

I never fancied Idrissa coming back, especially when we signed James Garner too. Stick with younger hungrier players. Give Stan Mills a run at right-back.

Gana will be a liability this season.

We play much better on the front foot, not sure if this is Frank's instructions or the players are panicking.

Also Frank needs to give substitutions more time than the last 9 or 10 mins.

Calvert-Lewin or Rondon against a small defender should've been on for the last 20 minutes.

It's the exact same player we employed last time round, except he's now slower, older and coming from a bang average league. Mistakes in midfield by Gana and Iwobi at this level are unacceptable.

Frank needs to explain why he started Gordon instead of McNeil on the back of a huge away win, and after scoring a goal.

And as for Gordon, I'm sorry but I would have snapped Chelsea's hand off in the summer, he is offering absolutely fuckall at the moment. He is poor defensively, his crossing is abysmal and he contributes nothing, goal and assist wise.

I completely expected this result. Man Utd have far superior players to us, players who can put their foot on the ball and dictate the play, and they have plenty of goal threat – something we simply don't have.

Gordon goes months without scoring, as does Gray. Maupay is a 1-in-4 striker and we've got a midfield who contribute little goal-wise. I'd drop Gordon for a few weeks and give McNiel a proper go, he is also better defensively.

Gutted cos we could have gone above Liverpool.

I've been much happier with our defence, but I think it was our old friend Darren Hind who used to get frustrated because too many people are prepared to jump the gun to praise, and this is how I've been feeling lately.

Our system still isn't quite right imo, and when the opposition is superior, then it's all about winning the battle. But we lost that, imo, because “certain players“ just didn't work hard enough out of possession – although we also didn't help ourselves, with the way we coughed up two goals.

Gueye is fine defensively. He does what it says on the tin.

Last night, we got exposed in midfield because United made the pitch big and stretched it.

That's what the manager needs to learn from. It's all about learning and developing. I'm sure we can do that.

Young and hungry. No offence meant. I hate that phrase. Ageism. I was old and hungry when I played my last game at the age of 40. We won 2-1 and it was still at a very high standard.

I actually thought our centre-backs played well last night. They stood fast. It was the midfield and flanks that killed us.

Fair credit to United. They got their tactics right.

On Lampard; I too get frustrated with how late he leaves his changes. Contradicted by the Dele change. But mostly he leaves it too late. A case for the defence, when a game is close, as most of Everton's have been this season, do you change it for the sake?

Just putting that out there, even though I agree with the sentiment. The Moyes generation will probably understand more. Keep it tight.

Even though we were wide open in midfield last night.

Concentration is massive, and getting drawn towards the ball is what good opponents constantly try and get you to do. It makes you drift out of the game, and this is something Onana really needs to learn.

Hopefully this is something that will come naturally with a little bit more experience?

Back to basics, as the basic requirements in playing a football match got lost after 15 minutes, and only came back in the last 24 minutes.

Too many players way of the mark, from keeper right through the defence, midfield and attack.

Everton mugged themselves, and the belief and team work, for some reason, was forgotten for most of this game.

All in, a poxy time to have a game, and if it was a Saturday 3 pm match, I reckon, it would have been a different outcome.

That's life, but a massive week, in view of the next game.

There's plenty to work on and hopefully this was a bad day at the office.

UTFT!

I just wonder also what we could have done with the money from selling Gordon? We won't get an offer like that again.

These things happen with a developing team. Patterson is much missed for his dynamism and Gueye is reminding us of his previous spell at the club which whilst very successful was littered with bad passing.

I think Frank will want to play young Garner from the start which may mean Gueye starting from the bench unless he changes formation.

As yesterday showed, we are nowhere near the finished article but we are a young squad which will improve with time and coaching and for people to turn on them after one bad game is just pitiful.

Our club deserves better than that.

But what made things even worse was, after scoring a brilliant goal early in the game against a side whose confidence must have been low after last week's mauling at Man City, we then went into ultra defensive mode.

I bet Man Utd couldn't believe their luck: after just conceding, Everton allowed them to bring the ball out from the back unchallenged. So, rather than the goal being the catalyst for piling on even more pressure, we did the complete opposite, and allowed them time and space – and when you allow good players time and space, they will hurt you.

Although their 2 goals came from our mistakes, I think it's quite worrying how one pass put their forwards unmarked and free to run on and score. And it could have been much worse if Casameiro had scored the free header from a couple of yards out. Also, I thought their disallowed goal was very harsh.

But my biggest worry is our manager and our tactics. Last season, it was very much 10 men behind the ball and see if we can pinch a goal and hang on for dear life. Now, given our position when Lampard took over, it was understandable, but we are just as negative this season. In most games, we have been second best in the possession stats and attempts on goal; I have said for a long time, this side doesn't look as it has many goals in it and the stats back that up.

Yesterday, while being outplayed for most part of the game, he waited till the 75th minute to replace Gordon with McNeil. This game was crying out for strikers and when it was practically too late, he brings on DCL and Rondon. Maupay is 5ft 7ins, isn't very strong, not quick, and because of his height, he wont win any aerial challenges, yet Lampard plays him as a lone striker.

I hoped Lampard would have had us playing on the front foot, but sadly he has us playing like a side that just hopes it can gain enough points to stay in the Premier League. For large portions of the game, our midfield 3 spent more time in our half than the opponents; with a front 3 not blessed with scoring many goals between them, how can that be the right way to play?

Gana has been clumsy in two games on the trot giving away the ball under little pressure. Garner looks ready to play a big role this season.

Lampard left the McNeil-for-Gordon change too late and DCL surely coud have come on earlier.

Let's face it, the Iwobi goal apart, we didn't give their keeper anything to do till the last 5 minutes.

Lampard can't be blamed for sloppy passing but once again he let the team slide out of the game and left his subs far too late.

We're better than we were last season, but only marginally, and hopefully on an upwardly-improving curve that will take time. In such a side, the loss of one solid performer such as Patterson can have a significant impact – not necessarily in the defensive part of our game but going forward.

Ernie Baywood's analysis, with Mike Gaynes's tweaks, makes a lot of sense to me.

We didn't turn up or get started and it exposed the weeknesses in the team in plain sight. I personally don't see the purring Rolls-Royce many do with Gana, and it's not just after last night's performance; I didn't – particularly in his first spell.

Onana I have to say needs time and lots of it, my toes curl every time he's on the ball. Therefore we are reliant heavily on Iwobi as a ball-playing midfielder. Look at the teams around us, who they have in midfield, all with comfortable ball players, it's where we are being found out. Also, our attacks are painfully low on quality.

Iwobi was absolutely fantastic again so this isn't on him. He showed up, he made progressve passes, he showed for every ball, he took it in tight spaces, he tried to make things happen.

It reminded me of last season. I think we have improved significantly but, against the "better" teams, we need to be more pragmatic and play 2 defensive midfielders. We could do this by playing Onana deeper, or bring in either Doucouré or Garner to play alongside Gueye.

My preference would be to play:

Gueye, Doucouré as holding.
Onana as attacking, with…
Iwobi moving to the wing

I'd be very happy for us to revert to one holding midfielder against "lesser" teams. Especially at home.

Moving Iwobi to the wing is where he had been playing before Frank took over. He was so ineffective, he got slated.

Coleman had a decent game, he was the covering defender when Rashford had a tap-in at the far post in about the 80th minute. I didn't see his legs go when matching Rashford for pace in the first half either. He got zero help from Gordon in defence or attack last night.

Okay he is past his best but for their 2nd goal why aren't you pointing out the lack of pace by the centre-backs that couldn't get near Ronaldo – after all, he was the striker, not winger?

Or for their first goal, to be consistent you should be saying that Mykolenko's legs have gone.

How many of our team would get into United's? If you can't compete with quality, you have to compete with workrate; some of our players did and a couple didn't which makes a difference.

Tactically Lampard got it wrong or maybe Ten Hag got it spot on. I know if I am managing any level of game, I would have played a tall striker from the start against their small centre-half and made a physical game of it.

I know Lampard has his footballing beliefs but they need to be put to one side and he has to be more pragmatic. That's what happened last season after he spent the first 10 games trying to play us out of trouble.

Are our midfield 3 better footballers than theirs? Not in a million years. Could our midfield 3 have got tighter and made the game more physical?

It's going to be another tough game next week. I would be playing Garner instead of Gordon and Calvert-Lewin instead of Mauphey. 4-5-1 – make it hard for Spurs.

We didn't capitalise and stay on the front foot. We took the initiative and then forgot our lines. Or suddenly feared that we might actually be able to take the game by the throat. We feared and sat back.

On individual players, Gueye might be readjusting to coming back to the frantic pace of the Premier League having spent a few seasons in the Farmers League. He'll get there.

Onana is young. He'll get there too. I just hope it's with Everton. Give him time.

This is work in progress after several years of mismanagement. One game and a poor performance doesn't define our season. Similarly, one Swallow doesn't make a Summer.

Be patient, Blues. We are improving. Last season, we would have collapsed. We played poorly. We lost. But we didn't capitulate.

Man Utd are not Top 4 perhaps but they are better than us who are in reality around 12th and they forced us into mistake after mistake, dishing out possession every time. Am I wrong in saying that the worst culprit was Gana?

Our first half yesterday was simply atrocious, the goal apart. It was men against boys, lions against sheep. I trust Frank has identified the problem(s) and we move on.

On this evidence, Gray and Gordon can't play in the same team anymore and Maupay up front alone is also not the way forward.

But I think your observation of Idrissa Gana Gueye isn't far off the mark. Closely followed by Gordon.

If I make a case for defending, I'll repeat myself. United got their tactics spot on last night and stretched the pitch. It left our midfield exposed and forced into making errors. Different perspective from others. A bit like those who think a goalkeeper should theoretically save every goal.

It's hopefully just adjustment and form. I think Anthony needs a rest personally. I'm not slating him, he just looks like he's run out of gas.

He chose Coleman at right-back; that consigned Anthony Gordon into playing as another right-back to provide support for Coleman who is way past his best.

He waited too long to bring on substitutes when the likes of Gueye were atrocious. Maupay is not an out-and-out striker yet he is left on his own up front.

Who should have played right back last night?

We all see the game differently but I disagree with you if you think Gordon played like a 2nd ful-back.

At one point last night, Iwobi was doing Gordon's running. The lad looked lost, maybe Shaw was having a good game or maybe Gordon was off the pace; despite this, Gordon had one of the best chances for us with the header on the back post that he couldn't test De Gea with.

However, it was a bad day at the office and teams with the talent Man Utd have offensively will punish you, as we found out.

Had they gone in level at half-time, they may have been able to regain some composure but they blew it.

What's the betting Ronaldo doesn't score for another dozen games?

I agree with most of your post, except that Everton were not forced into mistakes, it was careless play and sloppy passing that gave the ball away nearly every time.

Iwobi made one of the mistakes that cost a goal but he was one of the few players who came out with whatever credit was going simply because he was the link to most of Everton's attacks. Even when he took Coleman's place at right-back, he kept going forward and I think he was the only candidate for MotM, there were not many to choose from, were there?

We have strikers now... use them, that's how partnerships are forged.

Drop Gana and swap out Coleman for Holgate.

Go back to basics and play 4-4-2 and just be fucking braver and not play on the break in every game.

Improve our passing game big time as the game last night was very poor all-round and simply unacceptable.

Maupay also doesn't look good enough while Gordon and Onana are both in a bad patch at present. That team would get hammered at Tottenham.

I would have brought on Kyle John (22 next February) in place of Coleman at the beginning of the second half or started with Iwobi at right-back or even had Keane playing in a back 3 with Iwobi as a wing-back.

But having Coleman at right-back stifled Gordon's natural game when he had Patterson at right-back. No doubt Lampard will repeat the same problem and have Coleman at right-back against Spurs.

Our performance against Liverpool really surprised me and it does show that it's in there somewhere. Finding a balance with this squad is gonna be hard though and we may just have to settle for mid-table this season as a form of improvement.

Gana probably can't believe his luck that he's playing top-level footy. His game is all about closing down and winning the ball, which he can be great at, but the downside is that he is a crap footballer who can't trap a bag of cement and his passing is awful. I think most of us could have done what he does in our younger days.

We need a player in the middle who can control the tempo. Our new recruit, Onana, is gonna take a while to settle as he is still very raw. Ericksen showed exactly what we need.

So we really rely on Gray, Gordon and Iwobi to get us going but unfortunately only Iwobi turned up yesterday. Maupay for me just does not cut the mustard as a striker. He will get the odd goal as he does but we are no better off with him than we were with, let's say, James Beattie.

Frank's got his work cut out to get this squad playing decent footie and my hope is that we take maximum points from the clubs around us to at least show us we are heading in the right direction whilst future recruitment is focused on quality players who make big differences instead of filling gaps.

Let's see what the selection is for the next game. Spurs do play 5 at the back so Lampard may match them up. Kyle John was on the bench so Lampard must rate him.

With Gordon being a young lad, his form is bound to plateau and then hopefully kick on. I didn't see enough hunger from him last night. His movement off and on the ball can't be down to Coleman.

Only a couple of weeks ago, Gordon had a right go at Patterson whilst not following the full-back on the overlap. The Chelsea thing would unsettle seasoned pros, nevermind a young lad. I just hope he keeps developing and does not become the new Jeffers.

Our best player of the season for me is Iwobi. Since moving inside, he has improved and is our best option going forward, so why would you want to move Iwobi back on the wing, or play him as a right-back?

What is going to be the next suggestion? Play Pickford as a second striker alongside Maupay...

Whatever needs tweaking, either at right-back, or cover for Gordon, Iwobi is not the answer to plug a gap in either position. We need to leave Iwobi in his favoured position, where he is playing well.

Love the way you keep blaming Coleman. If you think Coleman stifled Gordon's game last night, you were looking at a different game to me, and Iwobi is playing in his proper position now, he isn't a winger or wingback.

Two goals, two mistakes, Gueye gave away possession about 4/5 times, when he wasn't even under pressure.

I agree, I think it's time for Garner to be brought in to give us more control of the midfield and also more options for set-piece taking.

I would personally drop Onana, he is young and maybe needs to play selected games, rather than every week, learning on the job.

Spot on assessment, I fully agree with all your points apart from Maupay. I think he is a very good signing who will prove to be a valuable asset and has done a good job to date up front on his own.

Support or linked-up attacking play from Gray or Gordon or even anything to hold onto and was therefore easily isolated and dealt with.

Iwobi is fantastic in that midfield and is an engine as well as someone who can get on the ball but a dictator next to him as you suggest would be ideal, perhaps Garner can fill that role.

Why we go back into ultra-defensive mode when we take the lead and then go all aggressive when we go behind, I will never understand.

When we go ultra-defensive, there is no out-ball so players get caught on the ball or make a poor pass.

Also, Anthony Gordon seems to have lost half a yard and his enthusiasm since Chelsea's interest. He needs to be rested until he gets his mojo back.

We beat ourselves.

Yes, we were thoroughly under par and they were better but at least we don't have the VAR to complain about this time, it's all down to the players and manager who should have made some earlier changes.

Very Poor.

Gueye's mistake in the middle was the undoing of what was a decent and effective plan to force United into opening up further for counter-attacks. That was probably where Frank wanted to be from the start with Maupay alone up front.

Gordon ineffective and Gray not looking up to find people was luckily balanced out by Iwobi. The goal was the perfect opportunity for him and he took it with aplomb.

If Gueye had not lost his football IQ in the middle of the pitch, we could have survived what looked like an out of-sorts United offence, we helped them out. The second mistake from Iwobi was not really his fault in my opinion since he was forced to do more when Gana would not run the channels for the ball to open up space.

Iwobi was noticeably frustrated with the lack of runs through the space and, once the defenders noticed both Gana and Seamus were not offensively functional, they stopped following any half-hearted runs they made.

Garner coming on and allowing us to get pressure was heartening but his defensive positioning was suspect at times. Overall I think we maybe get a little down for a chance missed to overtake the Red Shite but this will be a bitter pill for players who know they could have stuck it to United good and let it slip.

We're okay here but don't get comfortable because we did well enough to concern Conte who will be watching films intensely. I'd say drop Gana just to give him a rest after such a poor display.

I'm not sure if Garner is up to it so probably a lot of deep Iwobi will be what gets served up but he looks like he could make that work. Let's see if we can survive the right-side attacks, Mykolenko is immense so no problem there.

I still think there are enough pieces here that Frank is not stuck with playing Gana and Coleman in the same eleven and that is what killed the offence. Maybe sit Onana in front of the back four and play Iwobi deep until the opponent commits, is the way to adjust what we've got.

We may need McNeil in with Iwobi if we are to play Calvert-Lewin. Neither Gordon nor Gray are patient enough with their possession to be effective ball carriers. It sucked but it wasn't capitulation from the start, was it?

Motivational skills, I'd give him an A+ but that's not enough in the Premier League.

Both their goals came from mistakes in midfield, of which there were plenty. For the Spurs game, it is going to have to be KITANO as our central defenders and centre mids don't have the pace for a high line and the last thing we want is Son and Co slaloming through big gaps in midfield.

Hopefully our midfield will have learned a lesson about retention of possession, as we don't have the personnel to make many changes. But I would play Tom Davies for Gana, who has made too many errors recently. Tom plays okay when he starts, it seems to me. Perhaps also Doucoure for Onana who seems to struggle with the pace of the Premier League. Either way, I would take a 0-0, were it offered.

You make some interesting observations, bud. I would consider playing 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2 with Garner coming in (I was impressed with his offering) to support Gueye and Onana, Iwobi and Gordon behind Calvert-Lewin with both offering a wide outlet or to drift into the No 10 role.

I'd like to see Frank give that a whirl though, if we do we have to be mindful that we would be exposing the fullbacks, I personally can't wait for Patterson to return.

How many of our players are Top 6 starters? Pickford for one... then who else?

That's not our players' fault; they're just not as naturally gifted. That's why they play for us, we're always second favourite against a top side.

Keeping the ball and finding your teamate is really the basic difference between a good player and a not so good one.

We are still good enough to stay in the Premier League, I think that was our expectancy at the start of the season; no more, no less.

Jay #240, not sure how you can believe that United aren't a class above us. The striker they brought off the bench is the greatest goalscorer in the history of the sport. Ours was Rondon. Their winger cost 㿾 million, ours ٟ.7 million.

Their defensive midfielder has won the Champions League five times, three La Liga titles, three Uefa Super Cups and a half-dozen other trophies... Ours, ummm, somewhat less.

I really hope you are wrong but I have a horrible feeling that you are spot on.

They are 'better' than us.

It also looked to me like they did a job on us tactically too. Our new centre-backs are very rugged etc but they are not fast. The moment Man Utd pinched the ball in midfield, they played the ball forward immediately for runners to outpace our defence.

Two poor goals to give away.

I guess that then has an impact on the whole team, knowing you are vulnerable if you pile forward. Hence Frank's frustrating pragmatism.

Anyway, stating the obvious, we're a work in progress. This result doesn't mean Gueye and Coleman are finished, or that Gordon and Maupay are useless. It just means we'll be inconsistent as we head to something like an 11th- or 12th- or 13th-place finish.

Yes, we went on a dreadful run when the injuries started but you say "Gordon's form is a worry but 9 games into the season and we are in a better place than last season!"

We had 14 points at this stage last season, and no I don't think we will go down.

Re Gordon, and I do feel sacrilegious saying this, but I just don't rate him (personally), there is a lot of hype but I certainly don't see this 㿨M player Chelsea were stalking, why on earth didn't we sell!

Raymond @253, unfortunately you are correct it's just Pickford. Possibly in the future Mykolenko and Patterson?

The latter's offering will have those who said we should take the money from Chelsea saying told you so.

I read recently that Benitez questioned Gordons stamina and his ability to play a full match and also his mentality to fulfill the undoubted potential he has.

How is it he looks so goosed after every run up the pitch, I'm baffled - like he is 21 years old.

Lets hope it's all a learning curve for him, unnecessary yellow cards is another side of his game that needs to be addressed and improved on.

Perhaps taking the lead so early gave the team a false sense of security.

I agree with all who say Lampard should have made subs earlier that he did do.

Back to the drawing board and a tough game to look forward to this weekend when our former golden boy may just be performing in more ways than one - a fifty fifty with Tarkowski will be interesting !

We very nearly got relegated last season and completely overhauled the squad this summer with a small budget funded by the sale of our best player.

It's frustrating but yes, of course, we're a work in progress.

Without colossal sums of money (which we didn't have even in the big spending early Moshiri days) we all have to be patient.

We are not and never have been in with a shout of Top 6 this season – but may get Top 10. The real job this season is to get the team playing like a team, give talented players like Gordon, Patterson, Mykolenko, Onana and Iwobi more time to develop and start to build something that can compete in years to come.

The past 5 years or so has been wasted looking for shortcuts. There isn't a shortcut.

Maybe Anthony is putting too much pressure on himself due to the Chelsea interest? I hope that Frank is telling him to calm down and enjoy playing football. He does not look like he is enjoying it much at the moment. There is a good player inside him.

So yes, work in progress but it feels like something different is happening now.

You win some, you lose some. We lost. The next game is more important now.

Gueye's passing particularly is not up to standard for the Premier League with others not far behind. Everton never seem to sign players who are very good at passing. They can runaround and provide lots of effort, but passing doesn't come that naturally.

Then, what inevitably happens with Everton, as one person put it, "they forgot how to play football". Most of the team put in shambolic displays, and Michael Kenrick correctly summed it up, "we gifted them with 2 goals".

The key word here is 'consistency'. The top teams don't let talented players leave their clubs without good reason. They may show promise, but do not have the consistency.

Everton come along and we sign what we think are bargains. This happens all the time. We are collecting dross. We'll get the odd decent performance from them, and then they put in displays like we saw on Sunday, when the team collectively, was shocking to witness.

We may get lucky an odd time, and Iwobi is showing he has improved, and is playing well, week-in & week-out. But in general, we recruit a bunch of misfits. I only have to think back to the nightmare that was Moise Kean, to name but one!

This will be our season, we'll struggle with these players. Calvert-Lewin will not save us – another injury beckons. Until we do something about our youth system, our recruitment policy, our loaning out of players scenario (baffling at times), we'll be looking at another relegation farce.

I think some have been getting ahead of themselves on the back of a few hard fought results. We are not marching into top six. We have bought a few more combative players and we are staggering back to our feet after one of the worst seasons in our history.

I find it really annoying listening to people who have waited patiently to put the boot into Seamus, Gana and Gordon. It's as if they can't see that, when we face the better teams playing to their potential, we fall short all over the park. These players will play a huge part in allowing us to sleep a little easier in our beds this season.

We are improving and I expect this team to beat some of the Top 6 this season, but only if they fall short and we can out fight them. We are where we are. We have fallen so far down the mountain under this regime, it's going to take years before we can expect to regularly beat the top clubs.

It's pathetic, people on here who have never been able to kick a ball straight even if they were inside a pipe, verbally lambasting a player when he makes a mistake.

As a person who called out Coleman, Gana and Gordon for being well below what is required on the night, I will reply to your post.

My opinion that the above three had very poor games has fuck all to do with waiting for a chance to stick the boot in to anybody.

I am and have always been a big supporter and fan of Seamus Coleman, both as a good man and Evertonian but at 33 he's not the player we once knew. Same for Gana; however, they are senior players and both had bad games. As for Gordon, how he stayed on as long as he did is beyond me.

I would think all Evertonians know where we are in terms of building a new team; we all know it will take a while and, in order to avoid a repeat of last season, performances like Sundays – no matter who the opposition are – must be avoided, especially at home.

I'm sure the group were well disappointed with the team's performance against Man Utd – even though we were still in it right to the end, we got what we deserved.

What are you saying? That the performances of these three players are acceptable and anyone who thinks otherwise should say nothing???

His role should be and always was as a disrupter, a ball winner. He has always been below average as a playmaker and accurate passer. Not the worst, but below average.

If anyone is expecting him to be transformed into Frank Beckenbauer after his PSG stint, they will be disappointed. Frank needs to model the midfield to play to Gana's strengths and make it clear to Gana his role.

He's got plenty left to give and, if used in the right way, will be a very useful asset for us over the next two seasons.

Gueye got caught out and had a bad night. But so did the team. Man Utd got their tactics bang on.

It was still close though. The scoreline reflects that and we could have stolen a cheeky point at the end with a bit more luck or fortune.

Poor performance but nothing to get worried about. They were better and punished us when they got the chance. Not that much better, but better when it mattered.

One of the things I have learned on TW is that, if you don't name names, people will assume you are talking about them. So okay, I will name names.

Joe McMahon (258 and ofhers) came on this website claiming that if Gordon was not a scouser, Evertonians would take 㾶M for him in a heartbeat. Joe's judgement was laid bare when Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea came in offering mega bucks. Joe then decided to blast Gordon for not scoring. Then went quiet when he bagged a couple. Since then he has not posted anything about him.

Gordon has a poor game on Saturday and Joe, predictably, repeatedly singled him out on the Live Forum. He has continued on that theme on every thread since. Some will call that mere opinion. I see it as somebody who has waited to hammer a young boy at the first opportunity because he is desperate to be proved right about him. I see that as an agenda rather than an opinion.

To address your point. I don't think there is any harm in fair criticism – they get paid enough, but we were played off the park on Sunday. They were better all over the pitch. For me, anybody singling out individuals is condoning the substandard performances of the rest of the team.

I sometimes read the disproportionate criticism of players like Tom Davies with a disbelief. It's as if some people think there is only one or two people on the pitch.

Criticise poor play by all means but at least share the credit and blame around. For me, we win as a team… and on Sunday, we most definitely lost as a team.

You would get on with my wife Dave!!

You're bang on. Stating the obvious, football is a team game. One or two individuals don't win a football match, It's the team effort and hard work all around the pitch that matters.

Many of our players had similar poor performances at St Mary's last week. But that was against lesser opposition and we won.

We weren't far off on Sunday, but the opposition were better.

Gordon still has a lot to learn, but is becoming and will become a very good player. The interest shown in him is testimony to that. He's a talent. Let's not destroy him and make him the next whipping boy.

Reading between the lines, there's some on here who'd bomb Lampard out in a flash. Absolute morons. I'd love to know what sort of names they'd come up with to replace him.

He's a young manager still learning his trade and yes, of course, he's going to make mistakes tactically etc. But don't they all?

I for one am glad we've got him, a young hungry manager who's galvanised the fanbase. He hasn't been here a year yet and some have got the knives out for him.

It's laughable it really is. One window he's had... yes, one. Give him three or four more and watch us go.

Here I go again with the mantra, got to be given at least four seasons – otherwise, what's the point?

I included the whole team and then highlighted the three players who were particularly poor in my opinion.

See my original post @259.

Gana needs to be told to take care of the ball or he'll be benched and will need to win his spot back. He's a fantastic player who's made two awful decisions resulting in turning the ball over which lead to opposition goals 2 weeks in a row.

Gana has to reacclimatize himself to the pace of the Premier League, and while doing so, can't make loose passes. He's a fantastic player who's made a couple of critical mistakes, but should be warned and motivated by the coaching staff, not dropped.

Carry on, don't panic, improve. Don't make rash decisions at this point.

You think Coleman had a better game than Iowbi (even with his mistake), and he wasn't the only player I "picked out" was he?

Get a grip, Coleman was quite awful on the night, as were the other two I mentioned, and the rest of the team were not far behind.

I thought four from the eleven did okay: Iwobi, Onana, Coady and Tarkowski; the rest huffed and puffed but in truth didn't turn up.

That's not acceptable for me playing at home – no matter who the opposition are.

I didn't think anyone played poorly. I saw a team who made critical turnovers in bad places on the pitch.

I also didn't see anyone play lights out.

Save the criticism for when players actually play awful.

My personal whipping boy is Demarai Gray – who was pretty damn poor this past weekend. But he is what he is. To come on here and rip him a new one isn't really fair. He was poor and ineffective, but not shit.

When they're shit, vent your spleen. If not, do you think they honestly didn't try?

Finally, criticizing Seamus Coleman seems just wrong to me. Seriously, what more would you like to see from a player and a career at Everton? Like, what more could the guy do over 10+ years to earn your respect so you don't rip him when he's not even had a poor game, but rather a bit of a blah game?

The guy has earned my respect, I think we're just fine with him starting while Patterson heals, and I for one am not going to criticize anything he does unless it's patently abysmal, and even then I think my criticism would be limited to, "Oh Seamus".

What thrill do you experience when crapping on the most loyal servant we've seen in what? 25 years? Never mind this – I've 60,000 reasons to show Seamus respect and not tear into him.

Some people just get off crapping on others.

He told me that at their match last Wednesday he found himself sat next to Dwight McNeil who during their conversation stated that he felt that the Everton fans have not taken to him, judged on what he hears from the terraces.

Fans pay their money and are entitled to hold an opinion; that I accept… but supporters need to support the team in my opinion and leave Individuals alone. COYB.

The other part of Gana's role is to drop deep and be the out ball from the defence. That position is always vulnerable to the high press, and my guess is that he is adjusting to having less time to receive the ball than he had with PSG.

The criticism of the team performance is justified, but the knee-jerk singling out of players for abuse (usually the pet hate figure of the poster) is tedious.

My two Rhodesian Ridgebacks play with a Jack Russell most mornings. Quite an amusing site in terms of size difference. And they are usually accompanied by Blue, the Great Dane. Great name. They're quite a gang.

McNeil just needs time to settle in. The fans will take to him as long as he shows commitment and hard work, which I don't doubt. He has ability.

McNeil is a solid player but not an inspiring one. It's not that supporters have not taken to him but more that it felt an odd buy when we needed a striker.

Not his fault but he has to earn the respect now, and it's a tall order trying to exceed expectations of supporters.

My advice to him would be: win them over; effort may never replace talent, but heart is always needed to gain respect.

Who in your opinion was to blame for the 2nd goal bearing in mind we lost possession approx 70 yards from our goal?

From my seat, I seen one of your MotM running like he had a rucksack on his back whilst trying to catch a 37-year-old striker that had run off his shoulder. Our world class keeper also got beaten at his near post.

Or maybe, just maybe, the guy that won the ball (one of the most highly decorated players in Europe) passed the ball to one of the best strikers in world football who had the ability to score.

Gana was close to our MotM against Southampton but fast forward 1 week and he is past his best after playing in a weak league for 3 years!

The first goal is similar. Lost possession on the halfway line but the goal scored from the opposite side. No mention of Mykolenko being out of position or Tarkowski running with divers boots on.

Collectively, our defence didn't help themselves for both of their goals. Not just Coleman, who I thought kept Rashford quiet for most of the game.

That's the beauty of football, most of us are experts but some of the almost premeditated responses from some are just empty.

Gueye and Onana are showing that the French league is not up to the Premier League standard and they need to speed up a bit.

Spurs next, will Frank play the same team? hope not, completely different tactics needed against Kane and Co.

"I didn't think anyone played poorly."

"My personal whipping boy is Demarai Gray – who was pretty damn poor this past weekend."

So he was pretty damn poor but he didn't play poorly? Got it. Still processing...

Excellent piece, and for our experts here, and picking out players and calling them awful, is totally over the top.

Christine #281,

Singling out Coleman for the Ronaldo goal? Iwobi lost the ball, Casemiro's one pass split the defence, our whole back four were flat footed, Ronaldo was playing as striker, so were Coady and Tarkowski not equally at fault?

Worries me a bit.

IMO both poor passes (Iwobi and Gana) should have been covered; instead we were just cut apart as a team.

We attack as a team and defend as a team and therefore one player's mistimed pass should be covered by his team mates. It wasn't because, at that particular point in the game, we were poor all over the pitch and nerves ruled that day rather than confidence.

The boy is approximately 110lbs. People fear him as he bounds towards them but he just wants a treat. The baby girl is a mere 58lbs. She's tiny.

McNeil is going to be a decent squad player. If he can contribute half as much as Alan Harper and Kevin Richardson, he will win medals. We need a squad and that's what the management team are building.

Only 4 days until Saturday. Can't wait.

I obviously hope I'm wrong but this defensive belief backfired on us big time on Sunday. Maybe be brave a bit more.

We simply should not be cut open like that with one mistake in midfield. Iwobi had every right to take on his man when he did. Having said that, Man Utd were ruthless and it's not every week we will face teams with their attacking talent.

I would like to see Gana sit deeper than he has been with Iwobi and Onana in front of him.

Time for cool heads, and a few small changes.

Big plus point is that he loves little people and we are blessed with 5 grandchildren. Oh and he loves to play. Got my hands full :) COYB.

Sloppy play but I agree with other posters, they shouldn't have led to being through on goal unchallenged with 1 ball.

Lovely dog - super strong and healthy. But 70 kg of nutjob, though - she doesn't have any aggression, but she still thinks she's a pup and bounds around scaring the pants off our other dogs, with whom she grew up. They wisely just ignore her and wait for her to calm down.

I never said the goal was his fault, I said he was caught out of position and could not recover. He was caught out of position by others' mistakes, totally agree but he could not get back to challenge as he once could. Not blaming him, just a sad fact of life that he is no longer able to perform the way he once would.

The second goal happened for a catalogue of reasons as you correctly point out and not a singular failure of Seamus, but there is no denying he was marking the player who so easily got away from him. Great ball it was but...

Nobody on here needs to tell me anything about Seamus Coleman. Because he is a very decent human being, total Evertonian, and cost 60 grand – doesn't mean when he plays as he did on Sunday, I can not have an opinion.

Get a fucking grip.

Christy Ring – I don't recall me, nor have I read any posts from anyone claiming to be an expert – is it okay to have an opinion different from you?

Rob @ 285.

Iwobi and Coleman.

Here's the thing, Michael. When it comes to Demari Gray and myself posting an opinion of him, either read and enjoy / giggle, or just disregard.

I will speak out of both sides of my mouth continually when it comes to him.

He frustrates the LIFE out of me. He holds the ball like it was his cock. He never releases the ball quick enough, dallies on the ball just a second or two too long, runs into dead ends, shoots when he should pass, etc. He drives me absolutely mad.

Then, out of nowhere, he'll turn on the Gray after-burners, make an amazing run, and look like he should be playing in the All-Europe team.

For whatever reason, the kid drives me certifiably nuts with frustration. So when I speak of him, it will often be in some twisted, bi-polar way with an undercurrent of, "I hate the player".

I can't rationally explain it. And I will absolutely say one thing, then another, then probably yet some third frustrated thing, when it comes to Demarai Gray.

He did all the frustrating crap on Sunday, yet didn't play shite. You can wrap your head around that, you clearly have a higher level of intelligence. ;0)

Because he is a very decent human being, total Evertonian, and cost 60 grand – doesn't mean when he plays as he did on Sunday, I can not have an opinion.

Get a fucking grip.

When you put it that way, fair enough!

Why does that make such crystal clear sense to me?

I love Seamus. Any criticism of him I just go into full-on 'defend Seamus' mode.

Robert, 262, I love your optimism man! Work in progress, projects, etc. I don't buy it.

Me, I have been a big supporter of Coleman on here and elsewhere simply for the person he is and for stuff other than football which I won't go into.

Your thoughts on Gray I would agree with, he flatters to deceive and can do your head in. I suspect when Lampard figures it out, he will not be a first-choice player.

I have seen this happen with the likes of Sheedy, Sharp, Ratcliffe, Jagielka, now Coleman, all 5 who gave absolutely everything for Everton.

Do not get me wrong, it does not entitle them to a free hit, but at the same time annoys the hell out of me when those players then get slated to hell.

Coleman owes Everton nothing, a bit more respect for the player is not asking much, every chance Coleman will hang his boots up when he becomes a free agent in the summer.

Just enjoy his final season with us, it is not asking much for 13 years of loyalty, he deserves at least that.

Sad really. He may not have given us a decade or so of service, but he. was part of one of our best and most successful teams. I know it's not everyone, but even playing for another club, you'd think there would be some respect.

I mean, it's hardly like he was there playing for United or Liverpool. The mighty QPR?

Reid never ever hid; although he was having an absolute shocker, he just kept going, looking for and demanding the ball, only to keep giving it away, again and again. The jeers started from some, but Reid's nature out on the pitch was always hard work and honesty, and this unfortunately ended up being his downfall that day.

Contradictions? There's no getting away from them sometimes.

I won't bore you or anyone else with who took first place in the man-love stakes!

Our goalie, George Wood, came out to him in a one-to-one and somehow nutted him in the knee, breaking his leg. I went to the replayed game and, yes, we got beat.

I was made up we got him in the early '80s. Nearest thing we ever had to Alan Ball. I never seen Tony Kay but Reid could control any game.

I was talking in general when I mentioned the word 'experts', and I apologise if you think I was referring to you individually. We are all entitled to our opinions, as you say, but in my opinion, some are too extreme.

Big Labby was wearing a hat or a hood and had been minding his own business. Amazingly nobody had noticed he was sitting among us.

If a player in the bracket of Schneiderin etc, get slated who at best gave the odd decent game, that's fair enough, but when it comes to players that have given everything in the Blue shirt, all the greats mentioned above, from Young onwards, I do not like seeing them get abuse, because they are no spring chickens anymore.

With Coleman, he has to come in and cover for Patterson, he is a natural right back, not many more options, unless you put someone there out of position, there will come a game, might even be the weekend, where Coleman has a blinder, might even chip in with a goal, but you can guarentee he will give 100%.

Yes he signed for Rangers in the summer of 89, would have been his last competitive game for Everton.

Human nature is so fickle at times.
I admit I was the same over Leon Osman.

None of us are perfect.

We all want the team to do well and always look for scapegoats when they don't.

Well RS blasted Rangers again and as I said last week the gap between the Prem. and the Scottish Prem. is quite vast.

It's the nature of football and, er, humanity.

Slaughtering players is easy but understandable, but the real problems are always beyond the pitch, result, or performance.

But best not go there, eh, even if those beyond the pitch, result or performance accountability exercise total control of what they want to be accountable for, meaning those like me, being critical, are denied the potential or likely evidence within their sole possession?

And yet some Toffees lambast the likes of me for want of "proof" (whatever they imagine that to be after a near 30-year trophy-less existence and constant provable owner and boardroom bullshit) to sustain my opinion.

Bizarre – and second-rate loser mentality.

Somehow we did that by dispensing with Brian Borrows, Alan Irvine, Mark Higgins, Billy Wright, Steve McMahon and Trevor Ross, all of whom "starred" in that game before more insightful signings enabled our all too brief pre-Heysel success.

I suggest that, even after the squandering of 𧼐mill, and the admirable efforts since by Brands, Lampard and Thelwell to get rid of so much of the deadwood forest that that 𧼐mill dropped on us, we are at best now only equal with the 1982 squad Howie somehow so quickly revolutionised into what we briefly, thrillingly became.

No pressure then, Frank & Kevin, but you're toiling, unlike Howie did, against entrenched football stupidity above you that everyone in the world-wide world of football has known and played on for years.

The road ahead for you (and all of us) is way more cobbled than the comparatively smooth road Howie trod.

All the best!