Southgate steps down

Southgate has stepped down.

The next manager has to win the World Cup or Euros or he'll be deemed a failure.

My first choice would be Klopp or Carlo. Both are proven winners who can handle big egos and the pressure.

They will probably give it to Howe or Potter. I don't have a problem with either.

Championship at best. :)

Good luck to him in whatever he does. Don't blame him for resigning. Overall, he's done a great job getting the England national team respected.

However, there'll always be many 'what-if's etc for him to deal with — and that'll no doubt nag him.

Colin,

Or Frank Lampard.

It would be funny if either Carlo or Frank got it. Another ex-Everton manager who becomes a national manager.

I've still got this nagging fear that Friedkin comes in and, thinking he's making a big splash, swaps Sean Dyche in for this wassock.

Should be Lee Carsley.

You did a great job, thank you, Gareth.

For those saying he under- achieved with this squad, well, is it any better than what Sven had? Or Bobby Robson? It's certainly a lot younger and has the chance to develop into a great one.

Colin @3,

I had the same thought about Klopp. I hate the grinning twat but he'd probably be great at the job. I am not sure the British public is ready for a German manager.

Kevin @6,

We can't go for Gareth mate. Lee Carsley will be the next Everton manager — I've seen it in the tealeaves.

Southgate's not the one
Never turned me on
Thank goodness, now he's gone
Oh, and football's never "coming home"

In all fairness, he inherited a shit show and has done well, but he never looked like a winner to me.

Whoever gets the job should be English, imo. A foreign coach leading England to glory would seem like a rather hollow victory to me.

Furthermore, I'd have a coach that selects the best players available & gets them playing great football — winning would be a nice bonus, if it happened.

Steve, obviously I have the same problem with Klopp but he's as determined as he's relentless and he doesn't suffer fools gladly. He'd also piss off the media which would be a good thing.

Other choices would be Don Carlo, serial winner, loves the English game and this would be his last hurrah.

Roberto Mancini would be my third choice. Also a winner and he almost strangled Balotelli so kudos to him.

Should have had the guts to do it years ago.

He ever did have the smarts.

Maybe we will see some new faces getting a chance now.

I didn't enjoy watching most of England's Euro matches but I'll give credit where it's due for getting us to the final.

England won the group with 2 goals, which shows the overall lack of quality within the group. The team also didn't have serious contenders until playing Holland.

The team were set up defensively and seemed to lack passion, which improved from the Holland game. Part of that was due to Switzerland beating Italy who deployed similar tactics to the England team.

Southgate's tactics did navigate the team to the final but everyone will wonder if we could have done it more easily if we'd had a more attacking team which didn't rely on players being out of position or having our striker playing defensive midfield?

I wish Southgate well and thanks for giving us two finals.

I won't slate the guy as England doesn't mean a lot to me, but I understand the passion others have.

Even though they weren't often easy on the eye, he did a job and got close. Almost Moyes-esque.

It will now be interesting to see who England appoint. And what Southgate does. Will he go back into club management or sit on the couch as a pundit? Obviously he will make that decision himself.

A Carsley clone might be just what England's midfield needs.

He's done an amazing job to get the team where it has. Competing in elite finals takes some doing. Anyone thinking differently is deluded.

Could the performances be better? Of course but that doesn't translate into winning more trophies.

To go to the next stage, someone is going to need to put the team ahead of individuals. But not sure anyone has the guts to go against player and media power and lay out a winning team. But that's what it needs.

Sure he'll do well at Sunderland

I think if people reckon the next guy is going to be any different theyre in for a rude awakening.

The idea England have players comfortable taking the game to top teams effectively is fantasy.

Foden will overhit a 10-yard pass to Rice who falls over, giving away a throw-in and the opposition zip past the 2 remaining defenders now shagged out from crossing the half-way line twice and voila - 5-nil down.

Our players — stripped of their foreign counterparts — are very, very ordinary.

There was someone on the radio the other day, possibly Radio 5 Live's 606 show, suggesting Southgate might resign as team manager but go up the FA heirarchy and oversee English football at some level within the FA. They could see him doing that as long as the incoming manager didn't feel threatened.

I think if he wanted to still be part of the FA, Southgate is clever enough to keep his distance from the main national team but still be able to reflect in the glory when England win the next World Cup and Euros.

Just a quick edit after reading Barry's comment. Barry, I understand your thought process, but sometimes, it's also about the mindset of the manager and the coaching team. Different mindset, different outcome not always the best outcome, but different.

Funny thing, I cannot see Southgate as a successful club manager — a different beast than the national one. I think he would seriously struggle.

It's a part-time role that really has full-time responsibilities, but different. Diplomat, motivator, visionary, strategist and politician. Not a Dyche, more a Howe or Potter.

Above all else, he is a winner, cold, clear-minded, winner. I can't name an English man so qualified. Carlo would be the best but he is off to Brazil I believe...

Barry... I agree with you absolutely.

The venom Southgate has been subjected to, on this site, has been ludicrous. Post after post has sought a way to denigrate him even to the point of having a go at his politics and the fact that he's no Brad Pitt in the looks department. Only some of us are!

With the exception of Bobby Robson, nearly every England coach has been slagged off since the blessed Alf Ramsey.

Get real folks, you'll be throwing rotten fruit at the new guy at the World Cup in 2 years time. What you mustn't do, at all costs, is to criticise the multi-millionaires who let us down time and time again.

Oh sorry, my mistake... it's not that they aren't as good as the Spanish, Belize, Papua New Guinea sides; it's because they may be asked to kick the ball about in a different position.

Plus ca change, plus la meme chose — as we were always fond of saying in Norris Green

Alan,

Southgate's a terrible manager. Any half-decent one would have easily won the Euros with the squad we had.

He took one left-back who was injured without taking an understudy. He played Foden out wide left. And played a clearly injured Kane.

I am surprised Southgate did not stay on till the World Cup. He must not have been given the encouragement by the FA that he was expecting.

I suppose it is felt that he should have produced a result. Expectations must be higher now, thanks to Southgate raising them with two Final appearances.

It will be interesting to see who gets the job .Big Sam giving his opinion on Southgate on the Radio. I wonder, is he in Dubai?

Bobby Robson was no exception, Alan, in many ways! Especially after Euro '88.

Least of the criticism was Brian Glanville nicknaming him "The Somnambulist".

The euros final aginst Italy was the chance he blew. We scored after about 2 minutes and sat back for the entire game instead of going for that second which would have killed off the Italians.

That game reminded me of the FA Cup against Chelsea when Saha scored within a minute and Moyes hoped we could hold on for dear life and see it through.

It's a tough job. The next man will be expected to go one further and win a trophy. I think Pep could do it, whether he takes that job is a different matter and he may well see it as a step down managing an international side.

Whoever gets to be the next England manager needs to have the strength of character to make difficult decisions.

And not so much the standard difficult decisions about which fringe players to pick for a squad, but the truly difficult decisions that fly in the face of popular opinion when it comes to picking a starting XI, and those in-game decisions that can stop a game from slipping away from you. For all his gentle goodness and quiet positivity Gareth Southgate was extremely ill-equipped to make those necessary difficult decisions.

Southgate came out after the tournament and cited player fatigue as a factor in the team's inability to hit the desired heights. But if he had rotated his team more, including resting some of his superstar underperformers (particularly Kane, Foden, Bellingham, and Rice) then he could have managed that fatigue better.

And seeing how well the incredibly fresh Ezra Konsa played in the quarter-final v Switzerland — and how substitutes were consistently making positive impacts in the games — didn't convince Southgate to lean on his squad players as potential starters.

The myopic nature of Southgate was thoroughly revealed pre-tournament when he despaired at the lack of a like-for-like replacement for Kalvin Phillips — as if there was only one way of playing football, and it had to involve Kalvin Phillips or his footballing double. It was like listening to a gambler who has convinced himself that he has found a system for victory and that he is going to continue backing his system as it is the only one he trusts.

There is no foolproof system for victory — in gambling or in football — and at that point Southgate just seemed so completely out of his depth. This for a man who was preaching fearlessness to his players, but was petrified of mistaking mistakes throughout his entire tenure.

Danny, your thoughts on England are perfectly well known. No need to repeat them on every England-related thread.

Ian, I suggested the same thing on here the other day. Southgate is better suited to being a desk jockey than managing a football club. He's a nice guy who deserves our respect and an office at the FA with a window.

Alan, I always suspected the people in Noggsy weren't real scousers. They used to pee in the pool. Merde!

Dennis, you are right. The media went after Sir Bobby big time in ‘88 then demanded sainthood after Italia ‘90. The media are a huge problem when it comes to England with the hype about “it's coming home”. That song should be binned once and for all.

I've heard that Southgate passed his resignation letter to the FA immediately after the game on Sunday night, who in turn passed it onto Bellingham. Bellingham carried it a few yards before then passing the letter to Declan Rice, who found a bit of space to pass it to Kyle Walker. Walker turned and passed the letter to Jordan Pickford.

Jordan couldn't read the handwriting but could make out the name Debbie Hewitt, FA Chairman, so he handed the letter to an FA representative, and after a few minutes, Southgate's resignation was accepted!!

Southgate changed kids football. It won't be lauded, but he jointly brought in small side games for U13s and pushed a philosophy where skills matter.

There is no coincidence that we are now producing more technical players (Number 10 types), and where junior teams have won their age group.

Should he still have a role with the FA? Absolutely.

Southgate's role in FA youth coaching revolution sowed seeds for success

Colin & Dennis,

Yeah, I was only 9 at the time but I remember the press hounding Robson in 1986 and beyond.

That being said, with media pressure, I don't think we give enough credit to the journos over in Spain, Italy, France, Argentina, Brazil etc for roundly berating their managers. Even in Germany, the tabloids can match any abuse churned about by our worst rags.

Ian

That's a good point. It is also worth mentioning he is the first England manager to realize there is some kind of technique or preparation needed for penalties.

He also brought in sports psychologists, all of which I think we could have benefited from back when Capello was boss for example.

So yeah, maybe he is someone more suitable for an FA role rather than the usual Graham Kelly type clueless bureaucrats.

Colin, it certainly was an experience surviving Norris Green baths (the William Roberts)!

You could pee in the pool from the high board or, if you were a natural exhibitionist like me, whilst bouncing up and down on the springie opposite.

What we have learned from the Euros is what I said to folk around me in AJ Hudson's all the way through the match: that Southgate would resign not be sacked whatever the result.

Ashley Young is leading the "clamour" for Sean Dyche to be considered.

If the FA stick to their guns it will be an underwhelming and probably unpopular pick Lee Carsley. I feel that the powers-that-be might go beyond the safe hands yes-man Southgate type this time if they are listening. But they might well do a succession plan job.

It's impossible for me to get excited about Potter; it might well suit the skunks plans to get rid of Howe this summer. I might put a fiver on Howe (the stars are lining up)

Tricky Trevor is on 5live in a few minutes.

Erm, Tricky came up with Carsely or Potter as "interim" for a year or two and then anoint Pep the Magnificent.

Stick to playing Trev. Wonder why he never became a pundit?

I think it will be Lampard.

20/1, you can thank me later.

Interim gaffer will be Carsley, then probably Lampard as the permanent manager soon after, methinks.

More yes-men sadly... and on it goes!

Southgate did a good job. He inherited a shambles a built a good culture, like Klopp and Guardiola did before they won anything. On most levels, his record speaks for itself.

But he made a mess of the job in his last year. He knew Phillips was a busted flush and neglected to properly try out Mainoo and Wharton. He knew Shaw would struggle to get fit for the summer, but neglected to bed in a replacement, other than to play an out of form right back out of position. He watched Palmer score 20+ goals, looking mentally fearless, then neglected to start him. He watched Kane and Bellingham play on muscle memory and kept starting both of them.

The 'talented squad that should have won it'? Really? I saw a weak centre midfield, 'great' players like Foden go missing all bar half an hour of one game, an unfit, immobile lone striker, a shattered star midfielder playing on memory.

All year I've been saying I'd lamp on England if you could guarantee Kane & Bellingham's fitness. When that went, my money stayed in my pocket.

Southgate might have got away with it had those two green fit. But he erred in starting both of them and ignoring Wharton.

Klipperty is the obvious choice if he'd take it.

Potter is the most over hyped "coach" since Stave MacLaren. His win stats in the EPL are exactly the same as Dyche's 28%. Difference being Dyche managed a Burnley team on a shoestring budget for years and inherited a dysfunctional Everton team. Potter inherited a boring but not critically endangered lower half o the table team then a billion dollar team. Steve MacLaren and Alan Pardew both had much better win stats in the EPL than Potter. Lampard has better stats than any of them although he obviously had 18 months at Chelsea.

What I find funny about some of the comments about succession planning is the idea that the FA would hire a Jurgen Klopp. He's a good, attacking manager, but the FA are a conservative organisation by nature, and for every Terry Venables or Bobby Robson appointment, there are five others who are defensive, conservative, company men by nature.

GS proved to be ok.However tactics(soporific) late subs and lack of killer instinct finally did for him.
I remember as I'm sure many on here of a certain vintage do, the clamour for a certain Brian Clough to be installed as England manager.
Was never going to happen as he was and never would have been a yes man to the FA.
Have someone at the FA as a figurehead,spokeman or whatever for the non football stuff and appoint someone who is skilled and adept at the management side of things.
And if people have read this post up to this point,I thank you but have no idea as to who that person(people) might be.

Klopp wouldnt take it he wouldnt risk his deity status among the "scouse not english" attention seeking maniacs.

Plus he buys teams and cant do that at international level.

Also hes savvy enough to realise english players shorn of their fitter, more skiled foreign colleagues are very ordinary monkeys.

It would be nice if we (someone) stopped calling English players "monkeys".

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Eddie Howe would not just be a good choice but might end up being the choice. While, not being the sort to fawn, Howe does not really rock boats and has a much longer CV/record than Potter in the English game.

Howe has put together a nice team up there without being able to spend as high as one day that club will. He likes to move the ball forward quickly and while attack-minded, he has built a solid and deep defence. He is not the diametric opposite of Southgate but he is a very different sort of coach/tactician.

With Staveley (who apparently had a large hand in getting Howe in the first place) and Ghodoussi now gone after three years, there seems to be a wind of change blowing through the barcodes. I believe that Howe has probably taken the club as far as he can, and wonder if the powers-that-be up there might be leaning the same way.

The bits and pieces seem to be coming together and although the skunks, obviously, have said keep your hands off our Eddie (that means little in the scheme of things), it might suit both sides of the equation for Howe to become the next England gaffer.

Paul @22,

Since May 2001, Spanish teams have played in 27 major finals (Champions League, Europa League, World Cup, Euros). There has been a Spanish winner in all 27 finals.

Whilst I don't disagree on taking another left-back, sometimes you have to accept there are better than you. And Spain are just better.

England have done well to get to finals and semi-finals. But don't under-estimate what it takes to go from 2nd, 3rd or 4th to 1st.

Sorry but I can't agree Southgate was a decent manager.

He took a player to play left-back who isn't even the best right-back, a half-fit left-back, and ignored the claims of the best left centre-back last season.

He insisted on playing Bellingham and Kane every minute he could despite the fact half the world could see they were struggling. And instead of allowing or encouraging the players to express themselves and go out to win games a la Spain, he was ultra-cautious and slipped through a couple of games on penalties.

Useless club manager and poor international manager.

For me, based on who is available and could work with these players, the FA has surely got to consider Lampard, Moyes and maybe even Benitez.

Ian @34,

I think Lampard is a good call. Nice guy, respected by the players and nowhere to go in club management.

Southgate Mk 2.

No offense, Andy and Robert, but I really hope it's not Lampard. Very overrated manager in my book playing almost entirely on his playing career and being a ‘nice guy'. He would be a continuation of Southgate in the worst way.

I want a braver manager for England. Someone to actually get the best out of some gifted technical players. Someone who can coach a team to create and score goals. Howe seems an obvious fit. Otherwise, Pep or Klopp or Pochettino could be interesting, with Carsley maybe acting as interim.

Robert/Andy: seriously? Howe/Lampard? Lampard/Howe? Hmmmm. As highly as I respect you, I'm with Sam.

Sam, I see why with Pep, but why would Klopp or Pochttino need an interim? Klopp, I suspect, would rather like to be Germany's gaffer.

I wonder what the future holds for Southgate?

As for an 'Interim' Manager, well that depends on how long you call 'Interim'.

The new guy (God help him) must be allowed as a minimum to qualify and play in the next major tournament and if he doesn't qualify he's gone and the next in line, whoever that flavour of the month maybe gets the short straw.

Paul, I think klopp has said he has no interest in the German job. The German media don't like him and he can't stand them. He, like Ancellotti and Pochettino loves living in England and English football.

My son, who's a bit of a Klopp expert thinks Klopp, who's very religious, might prefer a monastic life for a year or so.

Why does Big Sam never get a mention? 100% record and all that…

In my view, Southgate is a strong leader. Brave, intelligent and of impeccable character.

His impact has been massive. It's hard to overstate it and history is going to judge him very kindly. From his England Development role, through the U21s, through what he's done with the national team.

But he might not be the best coach, even though his record stacks up pretty well. I could absolutely see him going 'upstairs'. Club football looks a stretch for him.

The next appointment is massive. 'Pissing off the media' might sound good but it probably doesn't help the national team win trophies. There's a real chance that a populist coach appointment undoes the work that Southgate has done.

I could see Carsley. Lampard too. Would an actual top level club manager even want the job?

Lampard like Gerrard and Rooney were all too inexperienced when thrown into management.

Okay Slippy 'G' did okay at Rangers but then anyone could have. The Prem is a different proposition.

I think all three will do well down the line but not just yet.

The England job is a lot easier than the Prem. pressure wise and especially when you have so many top players to pick from.

Southgate was an iffy choice right from the start and should have done a lot better and I think he was just winging it most of the time.

Many of his England wins came against very weak national teams and even some of them were a struggle.

One only has to look at some of the surprisingly fine performances in the Euros from arguably lesser teams like Slovenia and Slovakia to realize how disappointing the England performances were.

Is he Bavarian catholic Colin? I've never heard of his religiosity before. Hope he liked Paddy's wigwam. He clearly intimated that he wanted/needed a break. Hopefully he'll seek solace in a secluded monastery, take holy orders, and it's a Trappist order.

I still think that the FA will go for a home-spun sort - I could see Klopp or Carlo slotting in nicely with the pace and format of international management, but not Pochettino, who still has a lot to prove in club footy.

My money is still on Eddie the skunk.

I could see Lee Carsley, as he's followed a similar path that Southgate followed, but I'm led to believe that he's content coaching youth / development teams.

It's telling that the FA has stated they will consider foreign managers.

Paul F,

Pochettino would not require an interim but I think Klopp might as I believe he said he wanted to take a good break from managing.

As much as I hated him at the RS it would be interesting to see if he could get England playing the sort of attacking, breathless football that they managed.

I was just being silly re Lampard Moyes and Benitez to see what happened.

Lampard is obviously truly amateurish. Sadly he might get appointed...

Lampard is far from a ridiculous shout, Robert.

Ex-England player, generally well liked, speaks well, seems like he can play politics well and unite people, and crucially there are no decent club jobs that he can get.

Calls for England to go for Klopp are, I think, fanciful. Not only would it complete reverse the work done over the last decade in linking the England setup at all age groups, but it would be a big surprise to see a top manager actually want the job.

When was the England job last considered the top job? I suspect the next appointment is going to underwhelm a few people.

Ernie,

“When was the England job last considered the top job”?

When it's the highest paying job in international football! £4 - £5M a year I believe.

Phil McNulty's piece on the BBC website sums up Southgate's reign perfectly for me.

Sam @56,

Klopp did that when he left Dortmund. Took time out and waited for a job he fancied to come along.

He seemed a lot calmer leaving them. When he left Dortmund, he went into meltdown.

If it happened, and I'm not sure it would, I'm sure he would bring his Duracell batteries and caffeine with him!!! Tongue in cheek.

The last thing we want is Klopp as England manager if we have any Everton players in the squad.

Asthma can have serious repercussions and it seems he's a "spreader."

Quite a few available out there right now. There could be all kinds of scenarios.

I don't know where Southgate would go if he opted to back to club management.

As for Klopp, he tends to take time out. Imagine this scenario, Ten Hag doesn't get onto a good start after not qualifying for Europe and Klopp goes to Old Trafford. Doubtful, but it would be interesting.