Everton achieve the impossible, squandering another two-goal lead

Can he not see he's a fucking liability — a disaster waiting to happen?

You cannot be serious!!

I am beginning to wonder if he is trying to orchestrate the sack and a huge obscene payoff so that he can play more golf.

This was a free hit for him to give Dixon or Garner a runout at right-back. Keane and Tarkowski have the worst record as a centre-back pairing.

Let's hope for the best.

Does that mean it's doubtful Alli will be included this season or are there ways around it if he's a free agent etc.

Will Dino Dyche ever learn???

We need 3 points asap.

My concern is when and who the subs will be.

He can't be included in the squad list as he's not an Everton player. That won't stop him playing should the club decide to give him a contract though.

I still don't understand why he plays two in midfield, where we've been overrun. Harrison should have been benched for Garner in my opinion.

Get a few bob on Young to get carded.

I appreciate he's currently not contracted to the club. I hhink I was trying to work out how he could be included if he was offered a contract later as the squad has been submitted?

But I suppose it's down to the number of younger players or homegrown ones included which allows us to bump up the numbers or something like that.

Try to understand every word.

Just get in his headspace and feel something that might pass for empathy toward him. I want to be positive and constructive. Enough of these negative vibes.

George... George, wherefore art thou, Oh cosmic one?

Lot of challenges, still is. Good mood, 87 minutes... must keep that focus, standard of play.

Strong performance, Young to slot in, experienced, and put in a performance.

Iroegbunam, needs to learn but going well at the moment.

Yeah, Sean... What a guy! You seem to have the zeitgeist well in hand.

I love you, Sean. Go do it for the Blues!

If O'Brien were there, it would have been cleared.

Pickford for me doesn't look fit.

The Ginger twat.

Pickford was covering the near post when the ball was clipped over to the back post.

We fought for a foothold in the game and have looked dangerous on occasion. The next goal, of course, will be very important as to how the rest of the game progresses.

Defence and injuries are obviously a massive headache now, is it worth switching to 3 at the back with Garner and McNeil as wing-backs? Dwight has had a very good game again so far, was amused to see the calls for him to be dropped prior to the match.

I also think that this Ref has not given us much with a couple of soft yellows and a few free kicks which I think he just gave the wrong way. So far, so good.

Woeful defending. He just looks lost wherever on the pitch he is. Just why is he selected?

We can blame the player but why is the manager selecting him with a better option available?

Just accept guys that he isn't as bad as you all want him to be.

Now Michael Keane, that's another matter completely!

How on earth did he avoid heading it clear?

COYB…

He is so tricky with his quick feet and pace.

Firstly, Digne had acres of space to put in the cross. Now a decent goalkeeper would have claimed the ball, but not the coward. Then Keane ends up with his back to Watkins. Absolutely attrocious defending!

This game is going to be an action reply from 2 weeks ago!

Again on the manager and his setup.

Villa were cutting us apart around the centre-back pairing all evening.

Different season but same shit.

At least Dyche saw it.

We need to push on.

How are we going to defend when we let the other team have the ball?

Get Garner off and Dixon on.

Don't see it happening though.

Utter fuckin' crap.

Calvert-Lewin nearly scored again!

It's the weak weak defense.

I mean, how the fuck are we going to get the ball when one player presses and the others fall back??

Pressing has to be done simultaneously from several players. It seems that we have a serious problem with that.

Difficult to argue with the dirty spitter.

Why Dyche won't play a natural right-back Dixon, and three in midfield, where we're completely overrun, is totally unreal.

We have become Burnley of old, he's tactically clueless.

He's totally clueless.

Do the honourable thing and walk.

What kind of manager can't tactically protect a 2-goal lead 2 games in a row?

Calvert-Lewin has two golden chances and makes a mess of both. You could say he was unlucky on the second but there can be no excuse for the pig's arse he made of the first with all the time in the world and only looked like he would mess it up.

The other week I said that the offside rule should be explained to our attack especially Doucoure but the same should be said for Villa's second. If an attacker wants to run passed you and your the last defender then let him go. And for the whole game Tarkowski never seemed to be marking anyone, just backing off to add to his blocking record.

There's something in there but we need to use more nouse, more knowhow.

Oh, and my Everton play in blue shirts.

Sorry, Dyche, you just don't have the smarts to rally this team into a tight confident unit and the inclusion of Young again is a total mystery.

The numbers signify a totally inept team who are fast becoming a joke, if not already.

Leicester must be rubbing their hands at playing us next.

Keane and Young should be in the Championship but are starting players. Depressing.

2 in midfield is just too easy for sides who keep the ball well; we are terrible at defending crosses.

The players look like they have given up, they know, we know, every opposition knows these tactics don't work… it's 2024 — not 1974.

Even at 2-0, Villa knew they still had us. No composure. No belief. No hope!!!

And now he's out to prove it.

But, if the team keep their nerve and we are able to get a result against Leicester, then I don’t think we have a bad team. Obviously missing Branthwaite and 2 regular full backs for a team of Everton’s resources will hit us hard. If.. if.. if… Calvert-Lewin had taken one of his 2 clear chances, if…. Keane had not been so easily bullied by Watkins for the 1st goal, and that goal by Duran … I mean, that could be a contender for Goal of the Season. Just to comment on some of the newcomers:

Mangala - I thought looked sharp

Lindstrom - also did quite well cutting to the byelines

O’Brien had a couple of ropey moments and it will take him some time to settle into this league.

It is hard to take these 2 defeats, and Dyche needs to turn things around quickly, but I do honestly believe that there is a good team in there. We need a bit of luck also to make it happen.

Why doesn't Dyche just put himself on the team sheet? Along with Moshiri.

How on earth we created so many gilt-edged chances in this game is a mystery, because we certainly can't play football to the required standard. The players have no idea how to tackle and they leave decent opposition players oceans of space to do what they want with the ball.

I'm more annoyed about today's outcome than I was for the Bournemouth collapse. There's no leadership on or off the pitch, too many ageing players unable to do basic things, and a complete lack of will to win, or at least the will to protect a point or three.

I'd offer nobody currently in the squad or managing who has been here for longer than 18 months to 2 years an extension to their contracts and allow all of them to leave at the earliest opportunity.

Fortunately it's relatively early in the season, but the longer we continue to play the way we are, the less chance we have of visiting Villa Park for a league game next season.

I'm one of Pickford's greatest defenders, but I think he needs dropping and try and get his head sorted out, because he isn't helping at the minute.

I bet everyone knew we'd get no points as soon as Villa scored their first goal. Even then, Dominic should have scored to make it 3-1, but that would have been extremely flattering given the overall performance.

Ah well Saints on Tuesday, followed by an awkward trip to Leicester City.

Moshiri will not fire him; Textor can't… so who can?

Whatever way you look at that, there can be no excuse from anyone, management or players.

It is absolutely shocking. This squad is, and we have been for years, mentally fragile. The last 2 games 2 up and lose both? Incredible!

I really don't know where we go from here. Everyone will be looking forward to playing us that's for sure. A disgrace.

I was worried about Ashley Young but he wasn't calamitous. Would young Dixon have been worse? I'm not convinced he would have.

Some decent chances not converted at 2-2 and their last is a genuine goal of the season contender.

We are unlikely to finish stronger in games than clubs like Villa, especially when they have largely controlled possession.

Manager made decently timed subs today, but the odds were always against it meaning as much today. He handled this game better than the Bournemouth game but the Bournemouth game was the genuine opportunity for points.

4 bad results but enough in the last 2 games for us to be okay as long as the manager keeps all his squad involved.

Tactics, inept plan, or Plan B. Predictable football, amateurish tactics.

I'm in the Out camp as well. We can't carry on like this.

Even the so-called smaller clubs have realised the game has evolved. If he stays, we start at the new stadium in the Championship.

Dyche has to change his own mindset and that of the team, to realise that it's sometimes better to take the game to the opposition rather than sit back and invite pressure.

Not sure he can do it.

Carragher, who I believe still wants us to do well, reckons we play away games like a non-league team away to the big boys – I agree.

The football is non-existent, no possession at all, bypassing the midfield to Calvert-Lewin must be devastating for Ndiaye, who can play football, and Lindstrom.

This team can play and are better than Dyche. Get rid please.

If I supported any other club, I would be crying with laughter at our expense. Still, if you are going to be a laughing stock, make sure it costs millions and millions to get there.

I used to see the new ground from the job I recently left. Thank god. The thought of a Championship relegation battle there is too much.

It's taken me decades to realise life is too short for wasting time on this overpriced crap, managed and played by talentless money grabbers.

"But loyalty, Ged!"

Sod it!

If we are honest, some of those unexpected victories we got last season were as much down to lady luck as to our own dogged performances and it looks as if that luck has turned the other way and the goals are flying in from all directions against us. Dyche will probably argue that, over a season, those goals aren't conceded so regularly when you have luck on your side.

I personally hate the fact that Everton should have to rely at all on lady luck. I want us to do the right things on the pitch, pick up good habits, and carry things forward from game to game. That I'm afraid isn't going to happen under Dyche and what is it a dozen or more league games on the road without a victory? Five Premier League losses on the trot, since our five-game unbeaten run at the back end of last season.

I just don't think Dyche is one to do it.

And where do you suggest that the compensation is found from? (Around £8M... that we don't have!)

If we can't now hold on to 2-goal leads and are conceding over 3 a game, why persist with him?

"We have done well with the game-plan."

Gorra laugh!

Why didn't he bring on a natural fullback? Why didn't he shore up the midfield and take Harrison off? And Keane and Young again.

Dyche has to take the blame.

Villa weren't that great today, but we handed the ball back to them every single time. Whilst the defence was hapless and hopeless, if you cannot control any aspect of the game, you simply hand the initiative back to your opponent on a plate.

For this reason, he has to go before the situation is totally irreversible.

Letting us start the season with no real fullback cover is unforgiveable by the manager and the DoF.

Can't change, won't change, is this manager's mantra. Losing our Premier League position would be a disaster… change it now.

Tielemans sat in centre midfield and dictated play. Tim and Gana sat deep to cover but didn't create. Calvert-Lewin was superb but should have scored 3 if not 4 goals. Lindstrom looks good and O'Brien needs games.

Our defence, especially dealing with high balls, is pathetic and Pickford needs to sort them and himself out quickly. Southall would take the attacker, defender and ball at one go – how an international goalie can hold his head up when simple goals are conceded and the same errors of poor positioning and poor marking occur every game is shameful.

We are scoring, we are creating, but we need to go back to school to learn how to defend. The press will have a field day but this was very different to last week. But we need points before this sinks us.

There seems to be no leadership on or off the field at the moment.

I feel for the travelling supporters; it's hard enough getting up in the middle of the night to watch what was another inevitable defeat.

Worrying times at Everton Football Club.

I'd have Moyes back and we can find £8M.

I don't give a fuck who we get, this fella is fuckin awful.

They looked anxious from the start. Incapable of winning almost. That is 100% per cent down to the manager.

This is the Premier League; even players playing 10% below capacity on a collective basis will result in defeats.

We need a new manager bounce to restore confidence levels.

Kasper Hjulmand

I'm sick of the argument that surrounds most of our managers, at some point, in their Everton tenure.

Who will replace him? Think of the money it will cost.

The club/owner will not baulk at the cost of compensation if the upside is preserving the club's top-flight status. There will be people who would happily manage Everton; whether they'd be the right choice or not, is on those who are responsible for such things.

As it happens, I don't believe that Dyche's position will be in any danger until a takeover is finally completed, or he oversees a stunning 12-game losing run. Both possible, but probably unlikely to happen this side of Christmas.

Absolute dud, who earns a fortune.

Possibly not what you were after:

What is the Harrison Assessment Test?

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For me, Dyche is going to have to yield 4 points out of Leicester, Palace and Newcastle. Failure to yield those points and it gives Thewell and Chong the next international break to bring someone else in.

They'll have no option but to make that change. I suspect Brianthwaite coming straight back in will be key as to whether Dyche stays or goes.

Every Villa attack looked threatening and playing through our defence looked so easy. We are, to all intents and purposes, managerless. He has to go.

I told my son not to tell me the score as I wanted to enjoy the evening and, at that time, I was happy.

The dozy twat told me just as drinks were arriving that it was 3-2 and I went into my cave. The wife had a go at me and I replied that she hadn't a fucking clue how I was feeling.

A good night out almost spoiled until I realised they just aren't fucking worth it. It's taken me 55 years to realise that.

Fuck off, Dyche… fuck off now!

Exactly!

David Moyes until the end of the season. He's a miles better Manager.

£8 million to pay this shower off is small change to staying in the Premier League, anyhow how do you know we don't have it?

We leave this to Christmas and we are gone.

5 wins out of 25. Every week it's a different reason for the loss but we are haemorrhaging goals.

It's that simple.

This manager can't and won't learn, he's stubborn, arrogant, and actually quite strikes me as being a bit of a bully.

His in-game management is atrocious. I'd love someone on here to name me another side who have lost 2 on the spin after being 2 up in both games. There probably isn't one… well, there is now.

Surely this clown can't be allowed to continue as manager? If he is, we are in big trouble.

I've been hammering on here for weeks we've got a decent, not great squad of players that a good young coach would love to try his hand with.

Who that may be, I'm not sure… but now is the time to gamble or,, as someone earlier in the thread said, we'll be playing at the new stadium in the Championship.

Yes, it's that bad.

100%

But the longer Dyche is in charge, it will get worse.

He's always been a streaky manager but he needs a good streak sooner rather than later. Leicester, Palace, Newcastle and Ipswich next in the league. Think Dyche needs to get at least 6+ points from them or else whoever is making the decisions may have their hands forced.

Vital, absolutely vital that we now take points from those.

The sooner someone new comes in and shows belief in the players, the less ground we will have to claw back.

Otherwise, it'll be backs to the wall in every game. And they don't have the bottle for that.

How long now have we been dining out on shit sandwiches? Still, we're nearly a good team. Not that this is going to happen here but we all remember Howard Kendall's team not getting the run of the green for the longest time before it suddenly changed.

I still think we're going to have a good season. Once we get that break, and get Branthwaite back, I think we'll be fine.

Something has to change, and very very soon, or we'll get deeper in a rut with no escape.

If something or someone is not working, change it or him asap.

We were never particularly good in this one. But then we were playing against a better side.

Only the second time ever in Premier League history that a club has given up two-goal leads in successive games (other was Bournemouth).

Whether that's a preparation thing or just him remains to be seen.

Based on this, I would suggest we're the shittest team in Premier League history – still not relegated, but clearly the shittest due to our incredible ability to be total shite but somehow managing to stay in the division.

Love your optimism, god I hope you're right but in the meantime.

Dyche out!!!

Only three times during Dyche's reign have we conceded and won a league game, at Brighton (5-1), at Brentford (3-1) and of course the aforementioned Palace (3-2). All of the league games won at Goodison, during Dyche's tenure, have been aided by a clean-sheet.

I don't know if that proves anything at all, but it's a strange quirk of Dyche's management.

All criminal and many managers have been sacked for much, much less.

The sooner we can get someone in to put a bandaid on this the better.

Zero composure and he should have passed the fucking ball to Ndayie for a tap in.

He does a lot of running, has decent hold-up play but is a jigsaw in the box - he has to accept a huge part in this defeat today was down to him.

The only thing I enjoyed about today was seeing the very overrated Onana being subbed – how the fuck did we get £50M for him, his badge slapping at the end also shows what he is all about.

He already has, Oliver.

That's down to the manager.

I very much doubt it.

Iroegbunam was poor today and I still maintain that, if he had started with Mangala, Gana and Iroegbunam in midfield, with Garner at right-back, we would not have lost this game.

I'm afraid Sean Dyche's team selection and tactics are going to end his tenure.

Small consolation but it's only 13 conceded so far. Perhaps you counted the fourth 'goal' scored by Bournemouth which was ruled out for offside.

I don't know how far back I'll have to dig to see the last time Everton conceded 3 or more goals in four consecutive league games though.

But that's not really a significant fact tbf. We are (and this surprised me) one of only six clubs who are ever present in the Premier League.

So basically, given the number of games played, we are sixth in a mini league of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Spurs.

Yeah, we've lost more Premier League games than Luton, Brighton, Leicester etc, but it's not surprising really given we've played more games than them.

We're still shite though – I'm not making myself feel better.

Bournemouth as well, apparently.

Keane can't start next game. Not in a 2 anyway.

Dyche has no get-out and he's too stubborn to change anything.

We feel like his Burnley side towards the end of his tenure there.

The thing is, this team can play, they just have too many tired old defenders – Keane, Young, Coleman, Tarkowski looks cooked, Gueye as a defensive midfielder is looking past it too now.

We miss Branthwaite big time.

What the hell has happened to Everton these last few years???

Bald and Ginger doesn't seem compatible somehow… just like our defense.

Pickford
Tarkowski
Keane
Gana Gueye
McNeil
Harrison

I want us to play great footy, outplay teams, outscore teams and win games, as we all do. Realism regarding our current state of the squad and the strengths of the better resources teams and squads we play, means I am not at all shocked we have got done over the way we have.

Today, we nearly caused a massive upset. Calvert-Lewin missed great chances and Villa took their chances. It wasn't to be. Gutted.

I believe though better days are ahead and the returns of Coleman, Branthwaite and Patterson will help a lot. I believe, just as he did last season, Dyche will lead the squad to safety and better as the season moves past its infancy.

If we perform as we did today, with our first choice back line available, we will win more than we lose. UTFT.

I don't quite know what to think about Branthwaite as saviour without whom "we are lost". A baker's dozen goals conceded in four games speaks volumes. But a good number of them have come from very poor closing down by full-backs (two more today).

Branthwaite will not be some sort of knight in shining armour. He might be our best central defender but he still has a lot to learn. He alone can hardly be the solution as some seem to suggest.

And if Tarkowski does eventually miss a game or two through what looks like an injury that he carries from one game to the next, well...

Branthwaite & Keane or Branthwaite & O'Brien does not flood me with confidence, especially with our never-ending full-back dilemmas.

Oh My, how bad is that!

You're right. Young was a left-winger in his prime; now he's a right-back – at 40! Then a midfielder on the other flank.

Mykolenko is not great and starting to rival Patterson who's no good and Coleman who's past it for time in the injury room. Branthwaite can't solve those two massive problems

Regarding your first sentence, I could not agree more. Mangala was nowhere near up to speed.

What a player!

A cross tends to get into a box because a full-back has been in some way beaten.

Coleman - unlikely to play too many consecutive games due to his age and how that usually prevents quick resolutions to any injuries he may suffer.

Young - similar to Coleman, but doesn't positively impact games as much as the Irishman.

Patterson - Relatively young but already suffers from a lot of injuries, and is he really that good?

Mykolenko - has had some decent performances in his time with Everton, but seems to have been 'off' his game for quite some time, perhaps, he's been carrying injuries, although today I read, that he went off because he wasn't feeling well.

O'Brien - Probably not yet ready to play a great number of games especially in a team low on confidence.

Dixon - Could legitimately be a bit peeved not to be given more game time, but again a very young player to put into a struggling team.

Tarkowski - Nowhere near the player he was for most of last season.

Keane - Exactly the player he was last season, the season prior and every year that he's been at Everton.

Branthwaite - As good as he was last season, he's still a relatively raw player and it will be difficult for him to replicate his form and will take him time to re-acclimatise to the rigours and demands of the Premier League, if and when he returns.

The defence was stretched as soon as the window closed at the end of August, even if everybody had been 100% fit.

It's the middle of the park where Everton are crumbling, they are neither defensive nor attacking, it's a mish-mash of players with no set formula for who does what and who runs where, far too off-the-cuff, for my liking.

Whilst the defensive issues remain, it might be time to adopt a five-man midfield, although I'd only have one of Harrison or McNeil on the pitch at the same time.

It's up to Sean to sort out, I don't envy him, but he has to do something to shore us up, else we'll be too far behind every other team to play catch-up.

He's better in the air than Keane, he's quicker than Keane, and his positional sense and body shape is better than Keane.

Mykolenko also plays a lot better with Branthwaite alongside him, see balance and confidence.

Football is about blend and balance, and Branthwaite makes a huge difference, not because of his individual brilliance, but how he affects those around him.

Only 4 games! No! Cut a drift with no confidence 4-6 points or more and we are done. We are conceeding goals like a team getting relegated.

That's a fair point you make, however, we hardly have a stellar list of defenders to choose from do we?

I don't see how either defence or midfield can be thought of as our most important concern. They are both, equally, a deep concern. For me, actually, it is defence where we are most brittle and flimsy.

I look at the list of defenders that you kindly set out and the quality there is below what we have available in midfield. I know that there is an argument that if the midfield did its job then there would be fewer chances of leaking goals. But defenders are supposed to defend and ours are not very good at it right now: defenders not in their right position (2 today), defenders short on confidence (4 today), defenders making elementary mistakes (4 today).

Can people please stop pleading for Garner at right-back! He was utter shite when he came on and was directly responsible for the first two goals because he was so far behind the ball giving golden opportunities to get the ball into the box.

Midfield can be tweaked, Fred. As you say, start with five there perhaps or perhaps our three cracked hard-boiled eggs might react by adding a fifth as might have been done today after their first goal.

But our defence is in need of serious surgery of the most invasive kind – not a plaster. We had a chance to patch things up over a long window but, for whatever reason, we didn't.

We now reap what we sow.

It won't stop Dychey, Stonesey, and Woaney from having another top night out at Monsoon Nights (six entrees, no vegetable side-plates, endless streams of popadoms).

It doesn't matter – they all play too narrow... always have done with Dyche – who may now be the problem.

Q) When does having the courage of your own convictions become too stubborn to see what's in front of your eyes?

A) Just about right now is one possible answer.

Like Martinez and his damned 'Philosophy', they seem to get fixated; if the Philosophy isn't working, then the cure obviously must be apply more Philosophy.

The Plan B is: Apply Plan A harder, faster stronger!

But was taking Harrison off for O'Brien correct at 2-2? In theory, probably... but with our luck.

I'd say Calvert-Lewin was unlucky and call it as the defender taking it off his toe as good recovery. The second chance, did it right, lifted it over the keeper who is proven to be no mug 1 on 1... and hit the bar. If it wasn't for bad luck we'd have no luck at all.

How long can this carry on? Normally Dyche would need to get lucky fast or risk the consequences. These are not normal times, but zero pts and a shite GD is still exactly that.

Villa are a much better team, and on another day we would never have been ahead, but...

When are we going to help ourselves? Keane is shorter when he jumps than he is when just standing.

Not sure this one's entirely on Dyche; Duran's goal was a worthy match-winner, but we still could have come away with a point.

6 games in with no points should see the back of Dyche, but I guess we'll scrape a couple of points out of the next 2 games, and the struggle will continue.

At the moment, it's hard to see where 40 points are coming from.

I was going to say the same thing. Garner was almost playing like and inside right-back with Harrison having to cover all the flank but I still maintain if Jarrad was in instead of Keane he heads that first one away and would not let the forward get a run on him. One of Keane's constant failings.

You've only got to look at the stats for games which Keane and Tarkowski have been the centre-back pairing to know it doesn't work and that gets compounded when we don't have full-backs.

I'll have to digest that one before commenting.

Not quite the famous Godfather quote, but tonight I sleep with the dogs.

Anyone willing to bet Calvert-Lewin on scoring a one-on-one?

Please, Mr Textor, get us out of this eternal misery. Obviously, I never want my team to lose, but one more nail in the coffin of the ginger Neanderthal destroyer of the beautiful game.

He scored a banger 5 minutes before his goal as well that was ruled out for offside.

I doubt it…

When I saw that stubborn, pig-headed prick had again elected to pay Young and Keane in defence, I knew it was only a matter of time.

How we managed to score two goals, against the run of play, is still a conundrum. I can't see us winning anything while he is still there with his two hard boiled eggs Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Even-Dumber, what do they discuss on the sidelines without making any subs? What are we having for tea?

I was prepared to stand by the wanker that is Dyche, faintly believing he could work some miracle, like he seemed to against all odds last season, but that total myth has been well and truly dispelled!

Then again, who is going to sack the prick? We have no Board as such, no owner that you could call one. The sooner Textor gets in, the better – before it's too late – with a pair of steel toe-capped boots, with ten lace-holes aimed at the arses of Dyche, Dick and Dom!

Do I have true faith in the three cracked hard-boiled eggs? No. I have a hunch that they will not be with us in the New Year.

I take no pride in saying this, but my dislike of Dyche is heating up. I will watch his presser later – it's 9:50 pm here – but only after a few dry whites.

The Villa game was just a lesser team, selected and coached by a lesser manager, all brought together by a once great but now shambles of a club under an incompetent owner.

I can't gnash my teeth at that. It's just the standard offering.

Dyche seems clueless and is relying on luck changing as the key to our fortunes. You are out of ideas so thank you very much; now it is somebody else's turn.

This squad is much better than their league position suggests.

We need a reset, a new manager bounce, before we become adrift. There is still plenty of time to rectify this but we need to act sooner rather than later.

There's definitely a squad there that should be performing better than it is, I'm not saying fighting for Europe but at least trying to play some sort of football.

Dyche's whole aura was being hard to beat but we've shipped 13 goals in 4 games.

We need a manager who's brave enough to come in and actually try and play footy with some confidence.

Garner is not a right-back, he is a midfielder, Dixon is a right-back.

We talk about affecting the kid's confidence… well, how will his confidence be affected by a midfielder being chosen over him at right back?!? It makes me weep!

The kid must wonder what the hell he has done wrong.

Yet he starts with Young and Keane in defence, Gana who didn't do much, and passenger (all work and very little play) Harrison! So effectively playing with seven men!

Now, who picked the team?

On some occasions, Calvert-Lewin managed to hang on to it but, more often than not, possession was gifted back to Villa.
Even after our smash-and-grab goals, the team lacked confidence and Dyche was again exposed, locking the stable door after the horse had bolted.

Most fans agree that Dixon should have been trusted at right-back, which would have left Young to deputise for the sick Mykolenko.In fairness, Young had a decent game but the manager's loyalty to Keane was again exposed.

If Dixon and O'Brien had started and had been outsmarted, then the support would have more understanding, but Dyche is stubborn… Stubborn and wrong.

I sympathise with the situation he inherited but the dreadful run last season and now this pathetic start have exposed him.

Sadly, he is not the man to take us forward, and it now requires a huge turnaround to kickstart our season. His mismanagement has turned what should have been an average run of fixtures, perhaps yielding 4 or 5 points, to a situation where we the side is now under huge pressure.

With relegation rivals in some of our imminent fixtures, we find oursleves with proverbial "6-pointers" to navigate.

I was watching the game on telly with a non-Evertonian football fan. He was surprised, but pleased for me, when we went two up. I said, “Sorry, but I still think we'll lose. Put your money on a looping cross drifting over Keane's head. Oh, and Ashley Young will get carded.”

The thing is, such a prediction did not require any great insight; many of us on here were probably thinking similarly.

I'm beginning to think Sean Dyche is saying to his mates, “The game is up, lads. The contract is not going to be renewed at the end of the season. We may as well not bother, get the boot, contract paid out, head to Spain for the winter.”

Keane will be slaughtered for Villa's first and rightly so. He didn't even need to win the header. He only had to make sure Watkins didn't. The Villa man simply wanted it more – unforgivable.

It would appear (at least on these pages) that when Keane plays injured, he's "shit" and when Tarkowski plays shit, He's "injured".

Calvert-Lewin was our best player by a country mile. I don't subscribe to the theory he had two one-on-ones. For the effort which smacked the crossbar, he out-muscled one man and still had another between him and the keeper (he'll be the big fucker in claret and blue who makes the challenge).

That said, I don't subscribe to the theory that he was unlucky with the other one. I think we have established that he is not a natural finisher, but he was clean through and he never even got his shot away – unforgivable.

Ashley Young was once again played in an alien position for much of the match. Despite the howls of protest and faux astonishment when he was selected, he did an excellent job. Garner, on the other hand, seemed to think marking a winger is not part of a full-back's responsibility – unforgivable.

Dyche's interview – unforgivable.

Absolutely spot on, especially about Garner. I said to my son that he should have been subbed again for Dixon as he was woeful.

Disagree with their first though. Somehow Digne had about a quarter of the pitch at his feet. The cross was delicious and Watkins had the momentum for his leap. Keane was flat-footed so he was never going to prevent that header.

Altogether, I thought it one of the most woeful defensive displays I've seen from us. And there have been a few…

Take your pick for Villa's first goal, Keane definitely, Pickford as well for me. The cross was floated in, not banged across, and he had time to get across and punch the ball away. Harrison for the second goal; their third could be the goal of the season.

Dominic should have done a lot better with the one-on-one. Looking at O'Brien when he came on, he is not ready, Tarkowski is not the player he has been in the last two seasons.

Keane is so poor, I would never play him, unless it is upfront where he can do no damage. Pickford has made as many mistakes as any of them this season, mind you that is calamity, for me anyway. Young yesterday had a good game.

You may want Dyche out but I can't think of any manager who would get the present squad in its present state who could do any better – that doesn't include the Bournemouth game.

Branthwaite will make a difference – it would be impossible not to – but he will take time to be match-fit, as will Mangala.

I'm going on Tuesday night not knowing what to expect against another poor team… maybe it will go to penalties!

I feel we will be cut adrift when this Neanderthal is sacked. Last season's Sheffield United.

I can honestly say I'm not a Keane basher. I just called it as I saw it.

For that first goal, Pickford and Tarkowski take up textbook positions but are done by a classic stand-it-up-at-the-far-post – credit where it's due.

I don't want to be on the Keane-bashing bandwagon but, for me, he has to show more desire than that.

Why the hell doesn't the team manage the game during the various phases of the game? It's repeat mistakes every week and with no effective leadership on the pitch.

It was like a practice move for their first goal… and the manner of the second goal was a massive blow. The Villa goals came from no press, standing off, and no communication across the Everton players.

Another massive week. Get a nark and winning mentality and hopefully get our best centre-back back. One player doesn't make a team, but this Everton team need a change of mindset and luck.

Now to beat Southampton in the Carabao Cup!

Garner's not a full-back — he should never have been there in the first place, that's on Dyche.

Branthwaite will be back, and the sooner the better, but we are in big trouble with the full-backs, add to that our centre-backs are not playing well.

The defense last season was our anchor but, as of now, they're playing like our liability.

You can blame the manager all you want but what other options has he got? We are threadbare at the back. The lack of money is coming home to roost, I don't see any magic wand at the moment.

Asking for the manager to be sacked won't help; he and the players need our support more than before the season started… if we don't, there's a real risk we will go down.

We definitely need reinforcements in defence mid-season; I think we are good enough going forwards.

There's a chance that Patterson, Branthwaite and Mykolenko return and we see a return to defensive form. But I suspect we won't be able to field our preferred back four as many times as we will need to this season.

We need 9 or 10 wins. That's relegation form from here on, so is of course achievable. But given how poorly resourced we are in defence, it's a big ask of this squad.

"What other options has he got?"

O'Brien for Keane and Dixon at right-back are two immediate options.

Villa were all but camped in our half. Luck somehow keeping the ball out. Then our mate fell like a giraffe and the pretty ineffective McNeil finally hit the net in the correct fashion. A second goal from a well-delivered freekick gave us a second 2-0 lead. Lightning couldn't strike twice… could it?

When the so far very poor Mykolenko went off, the stage was set for our fresh and promising youthful Dixo.... oooo noooo — Garner. 😲
He has been shit previously in the right-back role. As it happened, Young played way better and proficiently on the left.

Their first goal was stoppable in 3 stages. Harrison was nowhere as he frequently is. That is where he should have been, stopping Digne. The slow and out-of-position Garner had an impossible task. One of the best crossers in the Premier League put the ball on the mark. Keane failed to block. Pickford failed to clear out the lot.

Their second came from them smashing us down the right which they had done most of the game. The terrible Harrison played the perfect pass to Watkins. Where the fuck was our centre-back Tarkowski? Not where he should have been: 2-2.

Ironically, the chance to wrap it up had fallen to us moments before. As soon as Calvert-Lewin was clean through, I got up to put the kettle on. The man can't finish a wank.

And the useless Gana and absent Iroegbunam allowed Dhuran Duran another top hit.

Of course Calvert-Lewin failed again at the other end. Pickford pulled off a good save but nothing was gonna happen to stop this shameful defeat.

The over-riding thing was the lack of chasing down and challenging. Villa were like a rash. We were like an open wound.

We got no goalscorers... still!!!! We have been crying out for them for decades, so Thelwell buys us none. Dyche doesn't rate his acquisitions, clearly, and is picking teams and formations as opposed to Thelwell as is possible. With disastrous consequences.

Our youth set-up is shit too, the manager choosing to never use those on the bench even when there is no other choice. He prefers playing someone out of position and out of their depth.

No leadership at the club means this cluster fuck keeps rumbling on. Apart from the "in it for the ££££££s" journeymen, there are no managers to replace Dyche. But let's face it, none of those would do better, probably worse.

After last season, the season before and the one before that, etc, how we hoped our relegation regulars would be smashing it up. Sadly, hope is proving ethereally fragile.

Calvert-Lewin had three chances and scored once.

It has been evident for weeks that Tarkowski and Keane do not work as a partnership and we have been vulnerable to crosses all season. Now fair or unfair based on form, Dyche will not drop Tarkowski so he should have picked O'Brien to address the weakness. His failure to act is stubborn and self-defeating.

Young played well – at left-back. Picking him at right-back after his last performance in the position was a terrible decision, and replacing him with a midfielder was criminal when we had a specialist right-back on the bench.

Dyche compounded his poor decison-making by persisting with Harrison on the right. He is a limited but hard-working player who might serve as back-up on the left.

Dyche is making these types of mistakes week after week and he will pay the price in the next 2-3 games if he carries on.

There is a team in that squad if the manager selects the right players in the right positions and fixes the glaring defensive errors that are happening week after week.

The longer we keep him, it's another game gone.

People in favour of ‘Dyche coming good' seem to think we have an unlimited number of games; we are over a tenth of the way through the season already.

Indeed the then Arsenal striker, Malcolm Macdonald, once said “If you give me 5 chances a match, I'll put at least one away”.

Dom is not the problem.

Dyche is the problem, the players lack confidence and cohesion.

I know many fans will rightly point out what he achieved last season despite two lots of points deductions, but I think the Premier League is much stronger this season than last.

Dyche seems to be racking up the sort of stats that no manager wants, the longest run of winless games by any Everton manager, the only Everton manager to concede 3 or more goals in his first 4 games, and I cant think of an Everton manager who has lost their first 4 league games.

We seem to have no structure, whether in or out of possession, Tarkowski and Keane has never worked successfully, and despite signing O'Brien, he seems very reluctant to play him.

We play Gana and Tim in midfield and yesterday Tim looked completely overawed in the first half, but just having 2 in midfield is asking them to try and cover far to much ground, when usually facing an opposition with 3 in midfield.

His choice to play Garner at right-back when Mykolenko went off gave Digne acres of room to play in and we know from his time here he delivers a good cross.

While Keane could be faulted for the first goal, I think Pickford has to take some of the blame. While he is as good a shot-stopper as there is in the game, his commanding of his 6-yard box for an England keeper is poor. Had his positioning been better, he should have been dealing with that cross which was headed in a yard from goal, and he conceded a similar goal for Bournemouth's opener last time.

I just wish Calvert-Lewin was as clinical with his feet as he is with his head, I can't believe he tried to take the ball round the keeper instead of shooting and making it 3-1, that might have changed the game, and he was unlucky later on when he did soot only for it to come back off the bar.

So we are now in a position where the players don't know how many goals they will need to score to actually win a game, and worse the opposition know, even if they are 2 behind, we will likely collapse if they get 1 back.

Dyche has the misguided strategy that this is perfectly acceptable. Very occasionally, we will get away with it, ie versus Liverpool last season, but almost all of the time, we let teams dominate play, to such a degree that it's almost like a training session, defence v attack.

We know Villa possess much better players, but they ain't feckin Real Madrid!

I just don't get why the team is not coached to keep the ball, it's absolutely pre-historic to set up a team to play that way. Even a defence as bad as Everton's would be given some respite from a constant barrage of attacks.

I don't buy into the theory either, that 'he can only work with what he's got'. Every player in that starting eleven has the ability to play short passes, to a team mate.

Does he not see that the 'long ball' up to DCL playing with his back to goal, normally surrounded by two hairy arsed centre half's is absolutely pointless?

The next two games will almost certainly decide his future. Lose them, and he has to go.

When Keane starts:

P19 W2 D 6 L12
Goals conceded 44 (2.31 per game)
2 clean sheets (10%)
Win Ratio 10%

When Keane doesn't start:

P41 D10 L12
Goals conceded 48 (1.17 per game)
17 clean sheets (41%)
Win Ratio 46%.

This doesn't excuse the poor performances of Tarkowski, Mykolenko etc, but it is clear that Keane works less well in combination with the other defensive players at Dyche's disposal.

So why does he pick him? Probably the same reason he continues to pick Young at right back. Conservatism and over-reliance on experience above everything else.

I can't believe Dixon is not getting another chance, I hope he silences Dyche on Tuesday in the cup if he gets his chance.

And Lindstrom is better behind the striker!! You can just see how he struggles on the wing.

If there were no cup games at home (our better chance to win a match), I wouldn't know what to do.

I wonder why?

Due to their spending over the past 4 years compared to ours, they are in a completely different league.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a manager who would select Pickford ahead of Martinez.

You say that Villa shouldn't be as far ahead of us as they are, and in your last sentence suggest that it's the difference in spending that has made the difference. But I think while the biggest spenders usually have the most successful teams, the managers have just as big an influence, sometimes with opposite results.

Look at the money Ten Hag has spent at Man Utd… so it doesn't always equate that spend and success always go together.

I know it may have been a one-off but I watched Brentford score and dominate Man City for the first 25 minutes and I think Brentford's net spend for the last 5 years has been about £43M.

Even Guardiola said he in his time at City had never seen a side go there and dominate as Brentford did, and Guardiola said that maybe Brentford deserved something from the game.

Could you honestly in your wildest dreams think Dyche would take a side to Man City and try and dominate the game? So I do think good managers can minimise the effect of not having the big budget that some clubs have.

Finally, I would have Martinez every day ahead of Pickford. As I said on another thread, for an England keeper, Pickford is very poor in dominating his 6-yard box. In successive weeks, he has conceded headed goals from a yard off his goal line.

I am waiting for the suggestion to rehire David Moyes.

We're a far better team than our league position says but you really can't look at the table till about a third of the season anyway. Judge us on the next 6 and even that's not a full third.

We've had one of our best summers in recent memory but I guess that's not down to Dyche at all.

I was even one that thought we should have left Ndiaye on last week but he was cramping around 65-70 minutes vs Villa. Maybe Dyche sees more in practice than we do. Crazy huh.

Anyone still defending Onana??

I'd have him back tomorrow.

I've been saying for years we need a keeper who commands his area. Pickford doesn't even command his 6-yard box.

A top manager would bench him. Instead, he's seen as untouchable.

I watch every other team playing possession football, even in the lower leagues, and whilst I sometimes think they stifle the enjoyment of the game, I get that the modern game is more tactical.

I would love to see what goes on in an Everton training session, do they not work on ball retention? What tactical sessions do the coaches run? Kick it as far as you can and run after it?

Mind you, it does bring back happy memories of schoolyard games!

Thomas Frank has done extremely well at Brentford. But he has an excellent relationship with a very savvy, influential owner – and has been given time and a lot of money to develop and shape the squad to deliver on his footballing ethos.

In the past 4 years, they have invested over £250M more than us in their playing squad. Without question, they now have a much better squad than us – and more than that, it is tailored very particularly to Frank's tactics etc.

Let's say Frank is appointed Everton manager next week. He can definitely make adjustments – but it's highly unlikely he'd be able to play the sort of game he played at Man City yesterday. Give him a year or two and some backing in the transfer window, and yes, maybe. The same may also be true of Dyche. Some say yes, some say no. In truth, none of us know.

But give Thomas Frank a club where the owner has zero interest in whether we are relegated or not, that couldn't compete with Ipswich for the likes of Phillips and Cajuste this summer, and has received no investment for yet another window – and he's set up to fail not succeed.

That's a pretty difficult situation, especially considering that Brentford finished below us last season by 1 point (or 9 points if you allow for the points deduction).

Which is why no-one of Frank's credentials would even consider managing Everton until a takeover is complete and it's become clear whether the ongoing shambles at club level has been properly sorted out.

The problem with typing 'Dyche Out' is not just who comes in – and the only suggestion I've seen on here is Moyes, which doesn't bear thinking about – but who takes the decision?

We have a temporary Board in place, an owner actively trying to sell the club, and we're in debt up to our eyeballs. It couldn't be a worse time, from the club's perspective, to sack the manager.

These facts will guarantee Dyche gets more time, but that's four defeats on the bounce and I don't know how much longer this can continue before someone blinks.

Thelwell may be forced to start looking sooner or later, unless Dyche can turn it around of course. As someone who's stood by him so far, I have to acknowledge that it's looking increasingly beyond him, but he's still in the box seat for now.

Garner was completely lost when introduced at full-back. Dixon was thrown in at the deep end against Spurs and impressed, so being the natural choice, why didn't Dyche bring him on?

Our midfield has been completely overrun in every game so far. Two in the middle isn't working, Garner should have been on for Harrison, to bolster midfield, why can't Dyche see that? As for Keane, enough said?

There has been simple solutions to our defensive and midfield problems which the manager has simply ignored.

His management has been pathetic.

I'm not advocating that Dyche is doing a good job at the minute because he most obviously isn't, but how difficult must it be to know that you're not a fans' favourite, that you're unsure about the support you have at ownership and board level, and that – regardless of what happens good or bad out on the pitch – you're likely not going to be around the place this time next year?

I believe that the DoF's contract also expires next year too, although I stand to be corrected if that snippet of information proves to be wrong.

It's time too for us as fans to batten down the hatches and forget about the manager, the owner or the financial issues; it's time to rally round the players, all of them, and try and get ourselves out of this doom loop.

It's one thing to be concerned about the situation we find ourselves in; it's quite another to do what our 'away' fans do and show as much support to the players as we possibly can.

We can't afford to wait until Christmas or the final few matches, it has to happen from this point on. It may not work out for us, but at least we'd know we'd contributed as much as possible in the fight to preserve our top-flight status.

Our final season at Goodison shouldn't be the one that we look back on with regrets.

Since Dyche has been in charge, I can't remember a time when we had more of the ball than the opposition.

Listened to it on 5Live, the commentators didn't seem convinced we'd hold out when we 2-0 up either…

Villa racing through our midfield, like Bournemouth, overrun.

Dyche brings on a midfielder at right-back, leaves a right-back on the bench.

Brought on a defender when we were 2-0 down against Brighton, and brought on a striker when we were 2-0 up against Bournemouth.

Pressure's on Branthwaite when he comes back.

'Garner for Young' was obviously not reliable. Mangala gambled and found himself outside the ball at the D when the DM must be protecting that part of the box.

O'Brien made a few spirited plays that shows individual promise but the partnership was not durable and at times shaky. Lindstrom was head-up and forward-looking but ended up chasing lost possessions before any linkup could create space.

In all, it looks like Dyche simply waited for a time when those choices had a higher likelihood of working.

I'm really not sure if I want to argue something sensible here. I am frustrated as well. The calls to make an effort to close them down are particularly void of logic.

Less overall speed, set up to deny the deep middle pass, two new players in key positions inside the defensive frame, the game has already opened up but Go, Go, Go!

Run and open up space behind you with Garner in one corner and Young in the other! And when one of them inevitably fails, throw Dixon on in desperation.

I have no punchline but the rhetoric that passes for laymen's footy analysis is a joke. I will wait for incoming, let's keep it toned down in the early rounds for there are children reading this.

If I may speak Okie for one last bit: the anti-Dycheball ad hominem [insert ad hominem]-show rhetoric reminds me of people with whom I played pickup games. They do not believe defending is a skill typically.

They would feign an attempt at the ball in the opponent's half and trot back. Then, as the ball was won by the worker defenders, there was Queen Bee waving her wings demanding the ball at her feet, thank you.

The players are trying, the manager is trying, the DoF is turning the ship, results have been cruel but the fight and attempted way of playing Everton football is there in infancy.

Branthwaite changes much but, even without, O'Brien looks the part of a third big man. We might have enough to patch the fullback situation. It is not where you want to be but, by damn, I can see us making it to the window and finding a bargain.

Sorry for the extended Live Forum [you know I love you guys, come oonnnn] tone. Now really isn't the time for bomb throwing.

Yes, Dyche was sacked by Watford, unfairly I think. Italians had taken over the club and wanted to bring their own in even though Dyche had done a decent job.

I shook my head and then genuinely thought to myself that I would have felt better if it had been 1-1, which is really just utter fucking madness.

I listened to the commentary for the winning goal, kept it on then to hear Dominic miss another gilt-edged chance, and only got angry for a few minutes before I thought about my feelings before the game, which centered on personnel.

I was punching the air for a lot longer when I heard the final whistle was gone at Anfield, then I was cursing another Everton capitulation at Villa, and this worries me.

Those Italians wanted a name, Dave, and gave the job to Gianfranco Zola, but I don't think he lasted long. No manager lasted long at Watford, but it didn't stop them taking Everton to the cleaners when Moshiri opted for Marco Silva.

He would gett thrown under the bus by his very inexperienced (to English football) DoF, Marcel Brands, who opted to sign Moise Kean rather than sign a central defender with pace, a move that rendered Silva's tactics, absolutely fucking useless.

That is some damming stat about Keane and I never thought it would be that bad.

Begs the question why O'Brien isn't getting more of a look-in? Well, it's obvious: he was Thelwell's acquisition and stubborn Sean doesn't like being undermined.

Keep playing him and we will continue to ship goals; 4 games in and 13 conceded but will he drop him? Will he fuck!

Let's be honest here, Branthwaite only got in by default last season because once again Keane started the season.

And I certainly don't get the comments "Dyche has done well under difficult circumstances" – he hasn't: 5 wins this calendar year, no away win since last December… absolutely disgraceful.

Enough is enough; sack him this week please.

The only people guaranteed to be here next season are the very loyal fans who have already suffered more than Evertonians who have followed the club through any other era and, remembering our song, sometimes it's all we've got.

I've never felt so disinterested in watching football except when I'm watching the kids play but I'm sure it won't last because I am a cradle-to-the-grave Evertonian, and we shall not be moved.

Anyway, at 2-0 to us, I'd composed the “gone quiet on here” ripost to send at full time. I should've known better!
Twats!

Hope to see you in the Harlech soon!

Mark, I went out this afternoon and caught the second half of the north London derby and second half of the Wolves v Newcastle match.

As I ordered a drink, a couple of blokes asked me was I red or blue. Responded Everton and they laughed at me. Both London reds. I don't mind where people come from and who they choose to support, but it does wind me up when they are people who have probably never been to watch their team.

As Tony says, cradle to grave. Even the youngsters who are there every week, feeding off scraps and glimpses.

I hate what Everton have been turned into over the past 25 years, Mark, and when I think about yesterday's opponent's, I remember how poor they became under Randy Lerner before suffering a very painful relegation… but look at how they have risen since they got rid of him.

I've said it many times but I'd take relegation in a heartbeat if it meant the curse that was delivered by Kenwright was finally erased out of our club.

You can bet your last dollar he will say Anfield. It's the only district of Liverpool they know.

A lot of red shite have a maggot shaped inverted wart thing down there.

For the last 5 years, I've scoffed at the idea that relegation could be the answer but I'm beginning to think it's the only chance of reboot we have. Constantly recruiting managers and players to keep us in the division isn't moving forward.

Take a risk and, if we go down, at least we might build for the future. The obvious yeah but is BMD. Maybe, just maybe, it will be our salvation.

But the likes of Keane, Young (Pickford in my view) et al are not!

I'm 65 on Wednesday My one claim to fame was that I was at Upton Park for Bob Latchford's debut. 3-1 up, lost 4-3. So even then…

Anyway in an idle moment and in a parallel universe maybe we could have fielded this team yesterday...

Pickford
Coleman Stones Branthwaite Digne
Lookman Gueye
Rodriguez
Richarlison Lukaku Gordon

Carlo might have stayed to manage them.

You can watch Everton's training sessions on YouTube. Some of it, it's no different to what half-decent amateur sides do. You don't get to see the training for the forthcoming match or set plays and tactics.

Everton have always been poor at recruiting since as long as I remember (1972). Excluding our '80s golden team.
Kenwright was fucking terrible and crooked. Now we have a DoF. None of whom have been any use whatsoever.

The new batch of recruits seem better than what Thelwell has dragged in so far. But we are farther away from a team that is fit for purpose than when he began. A blind man could sense what we need.

Dyche rates his recruiting so highly, he won't play the majority of them. Understandably he won't delve into our academy either. There needs to be a total deconstruction from top to bottom. Everything should go. Then restart with a fresh unadulterated untainted set-up.

Clearly not right this second because of the toxicity the club is languishing in. How long have the headlines been that we are a sleeping giant? I disagree. We are a decomposing one.

The narrative needs to be changed back to what it was before the curse struck because this is a lot more important than worrying about those gobshites even if relegation would be very, very unpleasant for some of the greatest fans in the world.

We all do. They're cunts but we need to get over it. My wife points it out – I'm more obsessed with them than I am with us. Even on Strictly Come Dancing, I was ranting when a contestant was going on about YNWA.

I can't help it – too many years of their incessant gloating. We need to “knock them off their perch”, the redshite cunts.

I drive past Bramley Moore, on a regular basis, and it looks magnificent. If it’s true that Jesus Christ, walked on water, then not even the great man couldn’t build a stadium, on water, so hopefully soon we will be sold, and the water that surrounds our new stadium, will help cleanse us, and give us a new owner, and also a much better future.

It’s different when the bastards get beat Mark, because it’s the only time I like them👍

For fuck's sake, there's even questions every day on either The Chase, or Tipping Point about them. I shout and scream at the telly, telling them to fuck off, with the missus telling me “They can't hear you!”

Makes you want to throw up.

We just need to be braver in games, we were fucking devastating against Brighton away a couple of seasons back and I truly believe we can do it again very soon too!

So roll on Tuesday night and a good chance to bounce back but Dyche needs to attack more with real pace and directness... so play Ndiaye and McNeil upfront and run at them, get the ball forward as quick as possible and make the Saints shit themselves for once, eh.

I'd play a 5-3-2 system,with real balance & just give our squad & youngsters a chance eh, Dyche!

Watkins had two chances and scored twice.
Calvert-Lewin had three chances and scored once.

What is the point of making things up, Shaun, to have your pop at Calvert-Lewin? Quite sad really.

By the way, one goal in three chances is not bad by any means.

But anyway, as I said, if Calvert-Lewin gets 1 in 3, I'm good with that and Watkins in no way got 2 from 2.

Calvert-Lewin at Villa would get more than Watkins. Calvert-Lewin is not the problem.

'They all said no and Bally went on "Willie Hall got five against Northern Ireland in 1938 and tonight this man (pointing to Supermac) is going to score six and we are to make it happen".

Supermac got five goals, had one disallowed for offside and hit the post with another shot.

At the end of the game the scoreboard at Wembley read Supermac 5 Cyprus 0. As Don Revie was walking away, Supermac pointed at the scoreboard and shouted across the pitch "Read that and weep you bastard, read that and weep".

Dyche is the problem, end of.

There's no way we'd get back up any time soon because if we were to go down most of the better players would want away anyway.

Pickford wouldn't want to lose his England place I'd imagine Branthwaite will be a regular in the squad by then so the same goes for him.

Others would follow suit and the way we recruit we'd sign average players only, and we've already got plenty of them.

No imagine them red bastards if we went, they'd never let us live it down it would be disastrous not just for us fans but the club as a whole.

This manager is not going to dig us out of this hole he's gotten us into because he's too stuck in his negative ways.

I actually think he doesn't like Evertonians because we can see right through him.

If he'd have played O'Brien and Dixon yesterday and we'd have still lost he would have gained a lot more respect off us, but no it was the same old tried and failed mates of his you know their names.

I think we'll comfortably beat Soton on Tuesday but back to league matters at Leicester I'm not one bit confident and I'm expecting nothing.

That's the mindset this fella has given me.

I can't find the spirit of optimism on that showing. Hell, the supporters home and away deserve a break. It's relentless year after sodding year.

God knows what the tactics were on Saturday, but anything Dyche had to say was either shite or ignored. We were lousy even at 2-0 up.

There's no one on the pitch who is a leader. Who can get a grip and say we defend this and pack the midfield and wings. They have been losers and bottlers and escapers for so long that there comes a point where they can't take any more. They are waterlogged.

There is no respite because other newbies arent good enough. The squad isn't good enough or big enough. The answer is to win. But how? A manager who doesn't like or trust Thelwell's additions or our academy.

As such, you are asking the beleaguered to do the final assault for the fourth final time, without replenishing the ranks with experience and goals.

We may, may just scrape our way out of this shithole yet again. But with what we have, it really can't survive much longer.

If there is a positive, it is Ndiaye. Maybe his magic can rub off onto some of the others and turn this turd into a golden nugget.

Going down would just make all of that worse. Dyche's 2½ years would come to an end. We'd have no money to pay a top manager; no top manager would want to come, anyway; we'd need to shed as many players as possible and bring in lesser talents. And compete with numerous other clubs all in no worse a position than ourselves financially, managerially, player-wise etc.

BMD would be less of a revenue-earner: smaller crowds, some season tickets not being renewed; some contracts for premium / hospitality seats being terminated without penalty.

Bonus is, we'd have the Premier League and Masters off our back! Possibly.

This is what we'd look like if we sold Branthwaite.

We absolutely cannot do that.

What would we look like?

It's about the club. It is diseased, one might even say in the throes of dying, rudderless and bereft of belief, a shell, a carcass over which vultures have been circling. We are getting close to being evens to go down.

By week 1 November, we'll have a pretty good idea if we will, as we will have played all 3 of the other relegation favourites. Right now, I have zero confidence in winning a game against anyone in the Premier League… because I don't think the players do.

For those who call for Dyche to be sacked, there is no-one in charge to do that and, in any case, we can't afford to pay him off. I don't know if Textor is the answer but I do know, if we are still owned by Moshiri come end January, we are going down. Dyche won't stay beyond the point when his reputation can still be salvaged. (I realise some of you already think he is past that point, but other clubs likely will not.)

This wasn't like Bournemouth where we played okay before the meltdown. We did not look like we belonged on the same pitch as Villa.

In close to 60 years of supporting Everton, I think this is the lowest point, and the worry is, I know it can and may well go lower. I honestly think only a new owner can save us. It's not so much having zero points – it's how we have got zero.

That might have some merit if the two he missed weren't one on ones with the keeper and the one he scored was courtesy of a Villa ankle keeping him onside, it is the quality of the chances he missed not the quantity.

I have some sympathy for Calvert-Lewin as he does a magnificent job as sole target for the long-ball game or, as I call it, kick it down their end and see if you can get it back. But we can't just put up white wine arguements that missing gilt edged chances is okay as he scored one out of three.

Nil Satis almost mediocrity!

Relegation would be a commercial disaster for us - £1B in debts with the loss of Premier League TV revenue and an owner who has stopped funding the club. We'd struggle to continue as a going concern, never mind getting back up.

"£1B in debts with the loss of Premier League TV revenue and an owner who has stopped funding the club. We'd struggle to continue as a going concern, never mind getting back up."

While I totally agree with what he is saying, the situation smacks of hypocrisy on Moshiri's part. Why are we £1B in debt?

Could this be his reckless insistence on acquiring certain managers, then sacking them with considerable compensation? Landing over-priced players, and giving them over-generous and long-term contracts? Then borrowing money hand over fist, against the club, and now saying he will not put any more in!

Like I have said before, I can't wait to get rid of this charlatan (head hunted by the Maggot, btw) but also hope 777 Partners get nothing and Moshiri end's up with ostrich-size egg on his face, or gets a contract on him by Usmanov's Downtown Torpedoes! :-)

There's nothing stopping one or both – should they decide it's warranted – contacting Moshiri (and/or Trextor) and (re-)plead the case for dismissal.

In fact, Thelwell ought to have a list in his desk drawer and should now open initial back channel 'just touching base' contact with Nos 1 & 2 on the list.

Yeah, I know, meanwhile back in the real world, we're still bottom of the league.

Even when we never won nothing for 14 years in the seventies and eighties, we still used to compete and nobody wanted to get drawn against Everton in the cup.

But the narrative was changed that Boxing Day in 1999 and coming 7th became much more important than trying to win a fucking cup.

But, if we got relegated, the landscape would definitely change, and the most important thing that has got to change regarding Everton Football Club is definitely the landscape imo.

Lampard arrived at Goodison Park in January 2022, and although he helped the club avoid the drop last season, he leaves Everton with 15 points from 20 games and 3 wins this term – the worst victory record in the Premier League. Everton are 19th in the table, with only Southampton below them on goal difference.

We have, under Sean Dyche, won only 5 games since December 2023. Now that to me is a sackable offence. Whoever we get, it needs to happen soon.

He's been incharge for 20 months. We simply haven't improved under him.

‘Thelwell ought to have a list in his drawer and will be touching base etc etc.'

You would think so mate wouldn't you, but I just can't help but feel that nothing will get done until Textor is confirmed owner and nothing is being done now to prep for that eventuality because nobody thinks they will be around if Textor comes in, including Chong et al.

What I can't get my head around is why Moshiri doesn't recognise that, I think £8 million was mentioned in costs to replace Dyche and his crew, is actually small change compared to the loss he will suffer in his stock if we go down.

He's taking a massive risk.

If I was Textor, or any other buyer, and surely he must have done this, then I would be looking at the cost of purchasing the club to be proportionate to where we currently lie in the league and the risk of getting relegated.

If Dyche is still here at the end of November and we are, God forbid, in the same position as we are now, then I would be looking for a huge discount if I was Textor or I would walk away.

That just seems obvious to me or am I totally missing something here.

He has run out of ideas and the players look like they have had enough.

Dyche took us over when we were second bottom and we would have finished last season in 12th place were it not for the points deductions. That's a pretty clear improvement, that just doesn't suit your narrative.

Yes, this season has started terribly (as did last season) but luckily the season does not end in September. It's early days.

I'm concerned by what I'm seeing and obviously Dyche needs to do better but he will get more time, partly because there is no-one running the ship and partly because he definitely did improve us last season.

So far, I think we are only down a few points on what we managed against the same opposition last season. It's been a tough fixture list (bar Bournemouth). If he fails to pick up points over the next stretch of matches, then I think his position will become far more precarious.

"Let him chose a manager." — are you joking? The guy can't pick his fucking nose without pulling out some shit.

Buying who? What great players of note are lighting up the pitch and our terraces?

Ignoring areas of red warning – replacement required in areas that desperately need it. No goal scorers in any position. No decent experienced players. We needed about 6.

No, I don't mean Young or Gueye. But as squad players, yeh fine. We have bought shite after shite after shite in midfield, relentlessly. And still our midfield is shite.

No one knows how to make the net bulge at the opposition end. Yet people think Thelwell should be trusted with picking a manager. In Dyche, he has not helped him. All of which is in black and white and his press conferences.

Director of Football was only introduced because Kenwright was ill and hid it. The players brought in by all (apart from a couple) have failed to make any impression, been fucked off or diminished in quality.

Look to the DoF for the players we have. That is on him. About as first rate as Barrett-Baxendale. Grrrrrrrr. Rant over.

No bias at all, mate. It's simply facts. It's in black and white, In front of your eyes.

I'd like to think you are correct but I'm in Nigel 307's camp, especially para 3.

People will claim it's evidence that Dyche's methods are working, that he is 'the right man for right now', that he's 'working miracles', and that he 'says it like it is'.

Dyche will come out and take every bit of credit possible. He'll show us the stats that prove he was always on the right track.

Then we've got a bit of a tougher run. People will turn on Dyche and he'll blame everyone but himself. He'll show us a different set of stats that prove it's not his doing.

Rinse and repeat.

Until he's gone, I'm past caring. He's not good enough for the club, he's not good for the club, he's not right for the players we have. All he's doing is lowering standards and expectations at a once great club.

Watkins did not convert 2 out of 2. He put the easiest chance of the match the wrong side of the post from 7 yards after a cut-back laid it on a plate or him. He also benefited from one of our players putting another tap-in on a plate for him.

Alan @300,

Calvert-Lewin did not miss two 1 on 1's. After putting a defender on his arse. He had another one throwing his body right in front of him as he hit the bar (he's big enough not to miss, for goodness sake). If that would have been Salah or Haaland, we would have been told how desperately unlucky they were.

As for the goal he scored being courtesy of an ankle playing him onside, I just despair. Onside is onside!! We must have the only fans in football who try to make excuses for the goals we score. No wonder he wants out.

Calvert-Lewin looks as fit as he has looked for years. Even in a team which barely attacks, I would put good money on him scoring more than 15 goals this season if he stays fit. They will not be spoken about. Nothing will stop people from talking about the chances he misses.

I expect Haaland and Salah will miss more chances than Calvert-Lewin this season... In fact, thinking about it. I guarantee it. The player who scores even half of his chances has not been born yet.

We have defenders looking like they have never played the game in their lives. Virtually every attack against us is resulting in a goal scoring opportunity and yet we have so many people complaining about a "strike force" which only scored four in the last two games.

No-one, not even him, scores 100%.

Dyche is getting the boot at some point or his contract runs out, I think we are all pretty much in agreement on that; otherwise, he would have been offered a contract extension.

He's not going to lead us out at the new stadium so why stick with him now? Why wait another half dozen games when the job will be even more difficult for the next incumbent.

By waiting until we are actually adrift, we increasingly run the risk of potential good managers turning round and saying, “No, the jobs too difficult now – I have my reputation to protect.”

The most relevant fact to judge Dyche's tenure is that he finished his only full season with 48 points which was a significant improvement to the previous two seasons.

Of course it's no guarantee he does it again and it does not render him immune to criticism but to say that he has not improved us in any way is factually incorrect.

"Dyche will come out and take every bit of credit possible. He'll show us the stats that prove he was always on the right track."

I think he would be hard pushed to do this. Last season, I had arguments with you because I thought that Dyche was on the right track and that our performances were not being rewarded with points. To some extent, this was borne out by what proved to be our best season points-wise in a few years.

This season, however, we have been really poor and the underlying stats and xG (which I know you hate) make just as grim reading as the results.

Most professional analysts and decision-makers will be looking at a manager's performance with a combination of stats and eye test and I'm afraid neither make a good case for Dyche at the moment. If he cannot address those flaws pronto then he will be toast.

Are you saying that you think they were not chances that should have been put away?

My main point was that some think scoring one of those chances puts him beyond criticism. Personally, I think he should have scored three.

Onside is onside!! We must have the only fans in football who try to make excuses for the goals we score. Brilliant mate! 🤣

Dominic Calvert-Lewin is the least of our worries at the moment, though in January, when he signs a pre-contract with whoever, he may be less prepared to put himself about as much as he does, through fear of injury.

I really hope that guy stays.

If Calvert-Lewin scored a hat-trick away to Villa, in that kind of team performance, then we'd be talking about one of the all-time great individual striking performances.

You're setting a very high bar.

The 5 wins happened over a period of 35 days in April and early May. I know Dyche is a streaky manager but going months without a win erodes confidence.

As a supporter of Dyche, he has to change his approach as defeats in the next 3-4 games will finish him.

I'm an Evertonian: What's Our Name!

So say we get relegated by 3 points (I don't think we will). Would you say losing the first 4 games and losing a 2-goal lead in two games was irrelevant?

For the first chance, Calvert-Lewin was in acres of space and slowed to a stroll. For the second, he slipped his man to (indeed) find himself one-on-one, but delayed his shot enough that the defender had a chance to get across.

If, like you said, that was Salah or Haaland, they would have been raging with themselves, not looking skyward with a pained smirk like the heavens had personally conspired against them. Furthermore, people would have been commenting how unlike them the complete lack of a clinical conclusion was.

With Calvert-Lewin, on the other hand, it is now strongly expected he will fluff his lines when finding himself in such a situation. His track record over recent seasons, when the gift of time and space takes away the safety net of acting instinctively, is glaringly bad.

That doesn't mean that he's a poor player, that he didn't play well on the day, or that he isn't the best centre-forward option currently at the club. It does mean that there will be instances where valuable opportunities to snatch points slip away partly due to an area of the game where he personally falls short.

I don't believe there would have been one Evertonian who would have been truly confident Calvert-Lewin was about to burst the net when either chance presented itself – and seemingly that also goes for the player himself.

Although the memory can play tricks, the first few games of last season saw us create (but not take) plenty of chances. We lost 4 of the first 5 – but most by 1 goal.

(Some posters have suggested that our improvement coincided with Branthwaite being introduced to the defence after the thrashing at Villa… but we were still losing regularly after he came in).

This season is worse as collective spirit seems to collapse as soon as the opposition score.

Many years ago, the much-respected Don Howe made the point that, in top level football, most games are won or lost in midfield – with teams who are outnumbered in this area tending to lose. This seems to happen to Everton most weeks as Gana and Iroegbunam get run ragged.

I don't know if you do understand my point (or even if I do!) because I agree with you.

I do feel less confident and more worried about Dyche than I did this time last season. He needs to turn it around soon.

My actual words were "fairly irrelevant facts in the long run" which I suspect you know means that, so long as we finish the season with around 48 points again, it doesn't matter hugely whether those inevitable losses come in the first 4 games or elsewhere.

It's also about sample size. You seem keen to judge Dyche's improvement on the 4 games we have played this season rather than the 38 we played last season, which suggests an obvious bias to me.

If we are still struggling after 10 or so games, then of course that becomes a more significant sample and certainly if we are still bottom by then there will be very significant pressure on Dyche.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on the second one but Jimmy Harris away to Spurs (clue as I'll not repeat the score; "Leave your blood at the hospital, not on the highway, over and out") and Frank Wignall I think 4-3 away, and I don't know why, to Forest.

And I think somebody on another thread said Bob Latchford in his first Everton game.

After he was sacked, the midfield was pushed further forward.

Sean Dyche is not a visionary, in over a decade of management, he just can't evolve. The Everton defence is old, injury prone and slow, and Calvert-Lewin certainly won't rescue us, chasing on his own with no support and missing absolute sitters

We had a very generous run of fixtures to start last season.

We played teams who were quite happy for us to have the ball and mill around the final 3rd with the ball at the feet of Doucoure and Gana. Safe in the knowledge that we were unlikely to hurt them.

Last year we didn't play attacking football, despite Sean's arguments.

You don't play attacking football with just one man getting anywhere near the striker. And that one man is Doucoure.

I say Begovic because, at the other end of the pitch, I'd have Pickford bombarded with crosses into his 6-yard box and beaten with a big splintery stick every time he failed to at least go for one.

I'd also make "the 3 boiled eggs" (copyright Paul Ferry) actually take part in the infamous "Gaffer day" every week until we win 3 consecutive matches or they are sacked.

Dominic was the last Everton player to score a league hat-trick at Goodison, behind closed doors against West Brom. The last Everton player to score a league hat-trick away from Goodison was Lukaku at Sunderland in September 2016.

Bob Latchford did indeed make his debut at West Ham but he didn't score, Telfer scored twice in the early stages to give the Blues a two goal lead, the Hammers took the lead early in the second half. Colin Harvey made it 3-3 before Billy Bonds got the winner for the home team.

That Forest game which Everton won 4-3, the Everton goals were scored by Vernon (2), Veall and Gabriel.

Frank Wignall scored a hat-trick away to Tranmere in the early rounds of the League Cup, Billy Bingham getting the other in a four nil victory.

This is due to who you are playing and if you have injuries to your important players at the time.

And the worst hat trick of all time, Storey-Moore!

I did get the match you refer to, however, I find it odd that a loss by six goals is often given as Everton's record defeat, but we lost to Arsenal by seven during Moyes' time at the club.

Gaffer's Day is when Dyche has them doing fitness training all day with no footballs in sight.

Keane tried to block Wilkins because he did not want to give a corner away (shades of Pickford and Anfield), instead he simply got in the way of Pickford for the first goal.

If you recorded the game, you will see the Keane suddenly remembers that he is the centre-back as he sees Wilkins get 3 feet away from him on the way to scoring his second goal.

As for the 3rd goal, he kept passing back to the goal because he was too slow to identify the option ahead of him and he was too tired. Hence no one challenged the scorer for their third goal. Just like last week when Keane was too tired to challenge the scoring player.

As for Young, only the fact that we were 3-2 down stopped the ref giving him a second yellow near the end for needlessly tripping up the attacking player (watch the replay: the ref started reaching for his card but stopped).

Once you have spent years in one of the Top 6 teams, giving a free-kick away to stop a goalscoring opportunity for the opposing team becomes second nature.

Dyche, showing useless man management, then blames Pickford and not Keane.

In the next game, Dyche will play from the start his 'newly discovered' O'Brien (he did the same last season with his 'discovered' Branthwaite), playing him after 3 games of training.

I thought most of the team played well. They showed desire, fight and confidence until the first goal. For heaven's sake, Dyche, watch the replay and ask your coaches for an honest analysis.

Who is Dyche's second in command because he is stealing his money from this club.

Having said that, in his tactics, so far this season, he has failed to deploy what resources he's got to the best of effect.

The club is fucked until we are sold, and although I can understand the screams for the manager's head, I honestly think people are kidding themselves if they think a new manager can just come right in and get us moving forward.

I hope I'm wrong, but most of us are pinning our hopes on Brainthwaith, in a similar way we were waiting for Calvert-Lewin in the previous two seasons and this is no way to run a top-level football club.

You are at liberty to agree with whoever you want mate.

I don't wear rose coloured glasses. I called DCL's first miss unforgivable in post 226. Not because he missed, but because he doesnt even get his shot away - which is worse...But I simply don't accept your account of the second. DCL didnt just "slip his man". The way I see it was Two really strong athletes came together, both determined the other wasnt getting the ball. Our boy proved the stronger, but he was knocked of balance by the collision with the first defender. The second defender gets goal side while he is off balance. DCL does not hesitate. He strikes that ball as soon as he regains his balance.

Those who didnt record it can see it on You Tube (if they can be arsed). I believe DCL is being criticised for missing a half chance most other forwards wouldnt have had the strength to make.

Alan

The reason I challenged your post is that you had posted twice on this thread saying the same thing. You clearly blame DCL for this loss, but you go further in your second post and try quite hard to make out the chance he did bury was somehow fortunate or being onside. There was a lot players who performed worse than DCL (all of them in fact). Your posts (and several others on this thread) smacks of TW band wagoning.

Take a look at those goals again (if indeed you can be arsed) Pay particular Attention to Tarkowski for both their equalizer and their winner. It's been happening all season, but He has a history of last ditch heroics so the TW Tarks band wagon runs in the opposite direction. He can do no wrong.

Band wagons aside. These threads are largely about a players performances. Their current form.
If DCL carry's on his current form we have half a chance of getting ourselves out of trouble. If Tarkowski continues to play like he is. we are absolutely Fcuk'd.

I've said it umpteen times, he can only play the way he faces. When a drop of the shoulder to fox the keeper or defender is needed, he just hasn't got it.

His first miss was a result of trying to adjust his feet in slo mo and the second a non-finishers attempt failing to keep the ball low. He needs to watch old vids of Ian Rush goals – he was the absolute master at rifling the ball low past the goalie.

I also agree with Dave in post 343 that Tarkowski gets an easy ride but, for me, he has been just as culpable for the goals we have conceded as has Keane.

I would also put Pickford in that category as someone who is beyond criticism. While he is an outstanding shot-stopper, his inability to deal with crosses into the 6-yard box has cost us goals this season and last season.

Maybe because he is the England keeper he gets away with it, but his positioning for the Villa first goal and the Bournemouth first goal were as much down to Pickford as the defender – both goals were headers a yard out from goal.

I know in the modern game goalkeepers have to be good with their distribution, it shouldn't mean they don't have to deal with balls into their 6-yard box.

But I have a new motto. "Don't waste your time on those not deserving of it."

Is it he doesn't want the opposition manager and coaches to hear what he is planning? If it is, don't bother, Sean – whatever you're saying has no effect on the game.

Also in post-match interviews, can you stop saying things like 'the noise', 'the details', 'he is on the grass'… Just explain in plain English.

I didn't think I would hear an Everton manager talk more gibberish after a game than Martinez used to but Dyche seems to surpass even Martinez.

VAR looked at Calvert-Lewin's goal and it was pointed out that from one angle he looked well offside and from another it was clear that the foot, not a leg or arm, of a Villa defender was all between him and being offside. As you say, onside is onside but it doesn't change the distance by which he was.

I don't hold Calvert-Lewin as the sole reason we lost as we defended poorly, and indeed, if you've read my postings, I have criticized Tarkowski. If Calvert-Lewin had scored, it may have made a difference but it wouldn't have improved our defending.

Indeed, even for their marvelous third goal, Duran came under no pressure from anyone defending and he was almost on the edge of the penalty area arc.

Perhaps you may be "arsed" to look again and perhaps lower your tone.

Phenomenal (sorry couldn't resist), the very name sends shivers down my spine.

I don't need to lower my tone, it was never high. I said to John if he can be arsed too. That's because I believe an awful lot of people would not be arsed going through the pain again to settle an argument on TW.

I'm still amazed you are arguing about margins for Calvert-Lewin's goal. It clearly irks you that he scored, That it was a legitimate goal is irrefutable. Why even try to refute it?

You are right about one thing, though. I will not be arsed going back to see if Duran was near the edge of the area arc as you claim. I have already seen it several times so I know with a degree of certainty that he was absolutely nowhere near it.

You forgot to add 'incredible' — another favourite of Roberto.

Just read Michael Ball's column in the Echo, I agree with every word. Well worth a read if you haven't read it.

I read Ball's column; would you believe I said more or less the same as Michael on this thread, apart from his say on Pickford, which is true also – look at the way Martinez controls his area, taking crosses.

Dyche mentioned having watched a repeat of the Bournemouth game 47 times, he still couldn't see our midfield has been overrun in every game by not playing 3 midfielders. His stubbornness is costing us dearly, and direct he still won't admit responsibility?

There's a great quote from Mark Twain: “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Could save you a lot of time and effort with some on here.

We'll struggle to see a better goal this season, although Barnes for Newcastle wasn't too bad.

Barnes's goal was heavily deflected on its way to the net, the Wolves player (Fletcher?) who it hit mouthed 'Jammy bastard' after it went in.

Just read that Gary Lineker's office, for I assume MotD erupted when Duran scored. I bet most of the so-and-so's would have celebrated like mad if it had been put in from 3 feet.

While I stand to be corrected, that would put Duran (almost on the edge of the arc - my 348) 25 to 30 yards out when he got the ball which he pushed forward a couple of yards before hitting it — but this is getting pedantic… almost Hindesque.

Christy @ 353
Yes. You did indeed.
And I thought you made excellent reading
I myself cant believe Dyche's claim.
If he watched the whole game, then mathematically that's impossible to have done.
If he watched the time from the first of their goals to the last, then whilst its doable its almost 8 hours.
Where would he fit in coaching, let alone life.
Did he lock himself in a closet.
Anyway, if he did, it proved a complete waste of time. We were much worse against Villa on every level.

Mentioning Roy Vernon in a discussion about missed opportunities is an oxymoron. 😉