Everton season ticket holder Andy Burnham wins Makerfield by-election

John Collins
1 Posted 19/06/2026 at 08:59:27

Go ed Andy lad.
9,000 majority as well.
Kick in the plums for the one policy party.

Michael Kenrick
2 Posted 19/06/2026 at 09:15:39

Maybe this could be a portent of something massive in the future!

The existing bloke at number 10 is a mad Gooner — and they have just won the Premier League for the first time in ages.

What if this lifelong Evertonian finally makes it to be PM??

Les Callan
3 Posted 19/06/2026 at 09:29:40

Great news. Well done Andy. We have a proper M P here in Makerfield now.

John Collins
4 Posted 19/06/2026 at 09:39:34

Congratulations Les,
You have got a good man in Andy.

Bonus is that's the third arse kicking Reform have had recently.
The penny is dropping amongst the ordinary man in the street apparently.

Steve Brown
5 Posted 19/06/2026 at 09:55:46

Congratulations to Andy, who has done a great job in Manchester (unlike Steve Rotheram). Guaranteed to be PM in 6 months.

Finally, people are seeing through Reform and Restore propaganda and lies about immigrants and foreigners - the jokers don't even want to mention the Brexit disaster. Not surprising as British people are intelligent, balanced and tolerant in the round.

Mark Carney, PM of Canada, is also a Blue, so that will be 2 of the G7 leaders supporting the mighty Everton.

Andrew Ellams
6 Posted 19/06/2026 at 10:12:24

We could have Evertonians as PMs in the UK and Canada by the end of this year.

We're taking over.

Jack Convery
7 Posted 19/06/2026 at 10:13:15

Andy, well done. Now have a word with Richard Masters ( eff all ) and tell him to lay of EFC.

Andrew Merrick
8 Posted 19/06/2026 at 10:39:59

Some good news always lands well!

Ian Wilkins
9 Posted 19/06/2026 at 10:40:38

Perhaps they could have the G7 summit at the HD stadium.
They’d all have to walk from town though…

Andrew Ellams
10 Posted 19/06/2026 at 10:44:10

Jack, I'm sure he wrote an open letter to the PL a couple of months ago about the terrible refereeing and VAR bias against Everton.

Jimmy Salt
11 Posted 19/06/2026 at 11:56:11

Haha Ian.

We Want Trams... or something... anything!

Paul Hewitt
12 Posted 19/06/2026 at 13:53:40

From the frying pan into the fire comes to mind

David Israel
13 Posted 19/06/2026 at 13:56:42

My constituency happens to be the Wirral, and therefore I sat this one out.

Still, well done, Andy, likely lad!

John Collins
14 Posted 19/06/2026 at 14:20:21

Probably the most important in a long time, David.

The significance riding on the result was massive.

Tony Abrahams
15 Posted 19/06/2026 at 14:44:00

Burnham went up in a lot of people's estimations when he got the ball rolling for a proper inquiry into Hillsborough, so if he does get into Number 10, then hopefully he does the same with the grooming gangs.

I don't know about the British people having more intelligence because people everywhere should be up in arms about this incredible cover-up that obviously stretches to the very top of our society.

The country feels broken because of people like Sir Kier, so let's see Andy Burnham go for the jugular of this human rights lawyer, who should be nowhere near the corridors of power.

John Collins
16 Posted 19/06/2026 at 14:52:40

Andy Burnham represents the only chance to get the Labour Party back to nearer where we want it.

Seven men jailed for 170 years recently in Greater Manchester.
20 men jailed in Leeds.
They seem to finally be getting a grip on this after far too long.

As Andy said last night.
"Politics in general is not working, people have lost trust"
I lost trust many years ago.

Paul Hughes
17 Posted 19/06/2026 at 15:53:41

Although I see him on the Transpennine Express train on matchdays with his mates and family and he seems like a personable bloke, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
He is like Groucho Marx "These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."

John Collins
18 Posted 19/06/2026 at 16:03:11

Which politician would you trust as far as you could throw them, Paul?

John Collins
19 Posted 19/06/2026 at 16:05:14

"I wouldn't want to join a gentlemen's club that would accept me as a member."

As he walked out of a club that accepted his application.

Jeff Spiers
20 Posted 19/06/2026 at 16:27:22

All politicians are puppets. The money people control every one of them. Burnham will do what he is told.

Keep the nation divided. Keep the peasants down, fighting amongst them selves. Been happening since time began. Them and us. Simples.

Dale Self
21 Posted 19/06/2026 at 16:40:59

From what I have read, that is that. He will be the next PM. For what that's worth from a yank.

Alan McGuffog
22 Posted 19/06/2026 at 16:50:20

If he re nationalises the utilities and the transport infrastructure he'll do me. Send to jail those who have been allowed to pollute and kill.our rivers. Stop further public money being spent on that bloody railway that'll get " business" people from London to Birmingham 20 minutes quicker. As the editorial.in Viz pointed out..just get up twenty minutes earlier.
Oh..and get us a right back !

Jay Harris
23 Posted 19/06/2026 at 17:01:57

Well done, Andy...

Now get that Evertonian Minister of Sport sorted when you take over at Number 10.

Mike Powell
24 Posted 19/06/2026 at 19:34:31

Never mind politics when are we gonna sign someone

Mike Hayes
25 Posted 19/06/2026 at 19:36:42

Burnham no different than Starmer 🤷

Darren Hind
26 Posted 19/06/2026 at 19:37:38

Thicker eyebrows

Paul Griffiths
27 Posted 19/06/2026 at 20:19:16

A sound and profound insight there Mike Hayes. You must be a student of politics. Syntax is not one of your strengths though.

John Collins
28 Posted 19/06/2026 at 20:45:36

Mike.
One is a centrist politician.
One is a left wing politician.

Apart from that

Dale Self
29 Posted 19/06/2026 at 20:50:08

I get the cynicism, and it isn't my play, but Burham is an Evertonian, give him a chance maaan.

David West
30 Posted 19/06/2026 at 21:01:18

They are all the same, I don't really blame them, im a builder, if I had a chance to give my mate some graft, or help him, I would.
These are just operating at the top level.

I get my mate a garden wall to build, these get their mates a whole train station to build.
Won't mind if that's station in at bmd.

John Collins
31 Posted 19/06/2026 at 21:04:56

We all would David.

We all wouldn't then go on to look down our noses at the riff raff though😁

David West
32 Posted 19/06/2026 at 21:33:39

They're all just out for themselves, John. Why wouldn't they be? It's a job, to make as much money as possible, like any other job.

The only way to attract people who want to be MPs for the right reasons would be to make it on a voluntary basis, where no wage or second houses and ridiculous expenses are on offer, where you have people who want to do good for people who need help, not help people who want more money!

Mike Hayes
33 Posted 19/06/2026 at 21:50:57

Paul Griffiths 🥱

Anthony Dove
34 Posted 19/06/2026 at 22:00:00

Without doubt, once Burnham becomes PM, Everton will become one of the most hated clubs in the country.

I look forward to singing along to "Burnham is a wanker!"

Paul Griffiths
35 Posted 19/06/2026 at 22:14:32

An emoji Mike (33)! I have faith in you. I do. I believe that you can string a word or two together. I really do.

Jeff Spiers
36 Posted 19/06/2026 at 22:16:47

David. It is called greed. They think the working class are f. g stupid. They would be truly f d without them. All for one and one for all. More like all for one and none for all. Slimy Marxist pricks.

Mike Hayes
37 Posted 19/06/2026 at 22:26:12

Paul Griffiths 🥱🥱

John Collins
38 Posted 19/06/2026 at 22:44:12

Look at Nigel and the £5 million bung.

Has he decided which one of the three reasons for the donation he is going with yet?

Ryan Holroyd
39 Posted 19/06/2026 at 00:02:57

Keep the racist reform and restore well away from number 10

Steve Brown
40 Posted 20/06/2026 at 01:49:20

Dale @ 29, “scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist."

Starmer is about as inspiring as a deflating balloon, so Andy will be an improvement.

Ryan @ 39, well said. Five Millon Farage and Rupert Lowelife are racism in a suit.

Paul Griffiths
41 Posted 20/06/2026 at 02:58:14

I still believe in you Mike Hayes. I do.

John Pickles
42 Posted 20/06/2026 at 08:04:23

He can start with easier things like fixing the country, then work up to the seemingly impossible, like getting us a right back.

Mike Powell
43 Posted 20/06/2026 at 08:17:47

Burnham might be a blue, but he is still a Muppet just like the clown Starmer

Paul Griffiths
44 Posted 20/06/2026 at 08:36:21

Yawn Mike P

John Collins
45 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:07:59

One or two disappointed flag wavers on this thread.

Good morning

Jeff Spiers
46 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:12:39

What flags will they be?

John Collins
47 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:19:18

Same ones as they have been for the last few years when the out of town agitators started paying for them to be put up on lampposts.

Paul Griffiths
48 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:20:55

Union Jack and St. George Jeff - 46.

15 years ago we hardly ever saw said flags waving outside houses or on lampposts.

I wonder why.

What has changed?

Dave Lynch
49 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:22:26

"Burnham might be a blue, but he is still a Muppet just like the clown Starmer" totally agree Mike 42.

Another middle class twat who's never had a proper job but thinks he's the peoples saviour.

Brian Harrison
50 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:34:09

I really do wonder how anyone could go into a polling station and vote for Reform. Their candidate Kenyon said women who have abortions are in his eyes murderers, most of the Reform MPs went to public schools what empathy could they have with a homeless person. They stare up trouble when anybody of colour is involved in any crime, yet don't seem to be bothered if its a white person who has committed heinous crimes.
Farage the snake oil salesmen was a friend of Nick Griffin the leader of the BNP yet tries to distance himself from his past. Their one policy is get people of colour out of the country. Farage elected well over 12 months ago in Clacton on Sea still hasn't had a surgery in his constituency since becoming an MP absolutely scandalous, citing security issues yet his mate Harbourne give him £5m for his security.
His plans are to scrap the NHS and make it insurance based like in USA. For his supporters next time you are unlucky enough to go to hospital make sure you ask for a white british doctor to treat you, good luck with that. Same applies to the care home system.
Division and hate are their policies. Sorry rant over.

John Collins
51 Posted 20/06/2026 at 10:46:33

Brian.

A brilliant post, I'm giving it post of the day already.

Ask any Reform /Restore voter what are the party's policy on education, health care for the less fortunate in society, and they can't answer you.
I was recently told, after asking the question, "I'm not bothered with all that as long as they get them all out"

Sad times mate.

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 20/06/2026 at 11:37:13

I think what changed was that people started hanging Palestine flags up in areas with much larger Muslim populations and then a lot of people decided to put up England flags, because they live in England.

I haven’t seen many England flags being put up for the football, during this World Cup though, because when I cast my mind back to the 2006 World Cup in Germany, there just doesn’t seem to be that much excitement for England in our own city.

John Collins
53 Posted 20/06/2026 at 11:42:15

I'll give anyone £100 if they personally know anyone who tied a flag to a lamppost off a ladder

Jeff Spiers
54 Posted 20/06/2026 at 11:58:37

Division and hate are right through the world. See my post @20.What would the ideal system be folks. Islam, Communism, Capitalism, etc? The worry and the danger is the global evil money will still pull the strings. Also, humans will never be at peace. F. g sad. By the way I have the Union and English flags in my garden. I'[m neither right or left wing oriented. My loyalty is to the working class, what ever the skin colour, background etc. They the people who keep the sewers clean, work all hours in hospitals, the list is endless.

Tony Abrahams
55 Posted 20/06/2026 at 12:09:55

Good post Jeff. Sometimes I think I’m a bit of a lunatic with regards my thinking because I’m convinced that all this hate and division has been set up to keep people arguing whilst they bring in Digital Currency.

I might be miles away from the truth but my thoughts always come back to the same question. Would the city of Liverpool, have survived the onslaught of the Thatcher regime if the people never had the black economy?

Martin Berry
56 Posted 20/06/2026 at 12:34:47

When he re assesses property tax and the community charges as he feels there need updating-some of you will think different - mark my words !

He was on news night, the week before the election, embarrassing and vague, deflected all the questions, just go and watch it and see what were getting, a clueless intellectual lightweight. Grooming gangs ? expensive property deals for his mates in the City centre, oh dear and some voted for this bloke.

There was Stamergeddon but its geddon worse

John Collins
57 Posted 20/06/2026 at 12:49:31

Would the city of Liverpool, have survived the onslaught of the Thatcher regime if the people never had the black economy?

100% definitely not Tony.
One of the reasons people should not get on their high horses when asked the question nowadays.

John Collins
58 Posted 20/06/2026 at 12:51:02

Another disappointed patriot above 😁

Jeff Spiers
59 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:04:39

John, are you having a dig at me

Which

Which patriot, John?

John Collins
60 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:09:51

No Jeff.

I agree with your post in the main.

Jeff Spiers
61 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:12:16

John. Thanks for your honesty

Les Callan
62 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:15:35

Martin @50. At least Burnham went on Newsnight, the reform fellah, Kenyon, refused to. Couldn’t face it.

John Collins
63 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:16:28

No problem Jeff.
Always the best way mate.

Steve Brown
64 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:36:32

Brian @ 50, masterful post.

“They stir up trouble when anybody of colour is involved in any crime, yet don't seem to be bothered if its a white person who has committed heinous crimes… Their one policy is get people of colour out of the country.”

Yes and plenty of gullible idiots fall for it.

White individuals account for roughly 83% of defendants prosecuted for indictable offences. in the England and Wales, but black people are twice as likely to be arrested as white people.

Funny old world.

John Collins
65 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:40:45

Steve.

I havent seen any posts advocating the removal of Ukrainian refugees of war mate.
And rightly so BTW.

Kevin Molloy
66 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:50:21

Regardless of the individual foibles of some of the blerts on the Reform platform, they command significant support among th country. Does that mean that we have suddenly become a racist country?
You can believe that if you want, but I think you are being played. Is it such a strange concept that people don't want their little corner of the world to become London? to be just one minority among many? If you don't want that, does that make you a racist? It certainly didn't thirty years ago, but we have been so propagandised that it is now impossible to object to any level of immigration into the country, on pain of being branded a racist.
In my view we have been played. Our capacity to act as a cohesive group has not been fatally undermined. Who are we now? We used to be a country, now we are a melting pot (much easier to control as a result). It's classic divide and rule. And whilst we are fighting each other, we never look up and see how we are being manipulated.

John Collins
67 Posted 20/06/2026 at 13:58:55

I think every one accepts the migrant situation needs addressing far better than it has been handled.
There is a lot of money being made through hotels, hmo's etc, a lot of it by friends of the political leaders leading the charge.

The hypocrisy of the likes of Farage is laughable.
Are you aware Farage made a request to the Conservative government for special dispensation for migrant workers to be allowed to work in his mates care homes in Kent?

Are you aware of the caravan site owner from Essex who was given the contract to arrange the hotels for the migrants?
He gets £47 per night per person for every single migrant using the hotels?

Its all bent and you are being kidded.

Kevin Molloy
68 Posted 20/06/2026 at 14:03:32

I don't think it's incompetence John, this is deliberate. And yes, putting your faith in reform and/or restore is nuts. the whole political class is captured.

John Collins
69 Posted 20/06/2026 at 14:06:26

It's far from incompetent Kevin.
Its a programme imo.
A successful one as well.

Tony Abrahams
70 Posted 20/06/2026 at 16:07:17

There should be another number six, on the number of your post Kevin, because we are definitely getting played by the devil.

A leadership contest is the last thing the labour party needs right now according to Sir Kier, but will this divisive bastard walk away?

John Collins
71 Posted 20/06/2026 at 16:15:43

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1492502436250079/?mibextid=ZZyLBr

John Collins
72 Posted 20/06/2026 at 16:16:37

He may have no choice after the weekend Tony.
Hopefully.

Paul Griffiths
73 Posted 21/06/2026 at 04:34:38

I can't stand that Billy Moore fella JC - 71.

Paul Griffiths
74 Posted 21/06/2026 at 06:26:29

Ten years on and Brexit has failed us. The most ignorant and perverse vote of my lifetime. and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/21/two-thirds-eu-citizens-back-uk-rejoining-bloc-brexit-survey

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/20/ten-years-later-has-brexit-benefited-europe-more-than-uk

And now 😂😂😂😂 Brexit voting areas have seen faster growth in foreign workers since EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/20/leave-voting-areas-foreign-workers-decade-since-brexit-referendum

We need to rejoin Andy lad.

Peter Mitchell
75 Posted 21/06/2026 at 07:22:46

Wow - I didn't think ToffeeWeb did politics!

On the flag waving, did anyone read the Post article on being Scouse not English (written by a blue)? Seems like it is still a bit of a thing, with people saying they wanted Croatia to beat England (turned out well for them huh?). Also seems to apply more to RS than anyone else.

When I was growing up (70's/80's) I was far more into Everton than England, but as I get older, England are getting more relevant. Probably due to Everton getting shitter and England getting better, though!

Living in a North London suburb, it is notable how few England flags there are compared with other tournaments - just one on my street and seen one car with window flags so far.

Oh, and on the politics, let's rejoin our fellow Europeans and turn our backs on the racist scum Reform/Restore. Looking forward to a Burnham premiership!

John Collins
76 Posted 21/06/2026 at 10:28:22

Paul 73.

Me neither mate.
Full of himself.

John Collins
77 Posted 21/06/2026 at 10:31:09

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/20/leave-voting-areas-foreign-workers-decade-since-brexit-referendum

😂😂
Made up with that.

Brian Harrison
78 Posted 21/06/2026 at 10:47:01

I see a bare chested neanderthal has been roaming the streets of Edinburgh stabbing mainly Muslims while accusing them of raping our young girls. I am sure Mr Farage and Mr Robinson will be on twitter arranging protest marches, no didn't think so he was doing exactly what they want, again using hatred as a weapon.
When is this country going to wake up to this hatred, this is exactly what Hitler told the people of Germany in the 30s that the Jews were ruining their country and we all know how that ended. Britain has always been a welcoming country so please don't let these people turn us into a white only state. Yes immigration needs to be under control and that seems to be happening, but no good will come of any nation that is ruled by hate and division.

John Collins
79 Posted 21/06/2026 at 11:12:55

Now, now Brian..

I thought you would know English people don't go in for all that violence, raping and looting.
Its just dem Dat do Dat.

Kevin Molloy
80 Posted 21/06/2026 at 11:18:40

I agree Brian. But it's deliberate. the deep state has been talking up civil war for at least 2 years now. And asontishingly you now have people (influencers) saying things like 'this is a white country, what are they doing here' and 'send them all back'.. the worst sort of slogans from the NF of the 1970s. But nearly all of that is being whipped up by controlled operatives like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins. Exploiting people's fears about mass migration in order to move them to a race war. And of course if and when they get that, they. will come down with an iron fist and hello police state/

John Collins
81 Posted 21/06/2026 at 11:24:13

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

Reform don't want to stop at sending migrants away from the country.
They will pick on the born and bred scouse black people.

Kevin Molloy
82 Posted 21/06/2026 at 11:38:32

Matthew Goodwin illustrates my point perfectly. He's an academic from deep state think tank Chatham House who spent ten years studying the extreme right and is now attempting to manipulate it.

Jeff Spiers
83 Posted 21/06/2026 at 14:31:17

Kevin the far left are no angels. This division and hatred has been going for centuries. Don't let the working class get too big for the boots. Agitate black against whites and vice versa. Give them something to worry and fear about. As for the left, back in the eighties, when Derek Hatton called for teachers to go on strike. My wife and our 5yr.old son and 1 yr. old daughter were stopped on the way to primary school by 5 Labour? voters and told she MUST go on the march to support the teachers. If she did'nt she would get a visit. We never voted Labour ever again. F. g Fascist bastards. Dead hard!!!

Kevin Molloy
84 Posted 21/06/2026 at 14:53:34

as long as you pick a side Jeff I don' t think our overseers mind which one you go for. I see now left and right as manipulations mainly from the people with vested interests to keep everyone fighting. How many times do you see a leftist party or a right wing party get elected and say 'but now we must govern from the centre'. It's all a show.

Jeff Spiers
85 Posted 21/06/2026 at 15:18:01

Kevin, thanks for feedback. I have gone into depth on this site how seriously the real danger is. I don't choose any side. Politicians are very well paid actors. They have scripts written for them. When the shit civil war kicks off, they will disappear to their state of the art bunkers, shaking each others hands, hugs all round, job done. When they emerge, they will pick their slaves. Then the merry go round spins again. Only when the working class gets its act together? I can't see it. As I say, this has been going on for hundreds of years, and will continue.

John Collins
86 Posted 21/06/2026 at 15:30:34

Last one off me on this thread.

When you have working class scousers intimidating men, women and children on the streets of our great city, the division is already in.
It saddens me to see some born in this city, a city that is renowned for its support of the underdog, punching down on the less fortunate.

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 21/06/2026 at 16:10:25

It definitely suits these corrupt politicians, Kevin, because if people stopped and thought long and hard enough about how fucking corrupt the whole system has become then maybe then we would get real change. (Unite - instead of Divide)

Labour aren't labour, the greens are round the bend. The Tories are finished, Farage is a corrupt liar. I don't know enough about Rupert Lowe so maybe it's time for everyone to vote for Lord Sutch and see what The Monster Raving Lunatic Party are all about!

Eric Myles
88 Posted 21/06/2026 at 16:21:20

The Screaming Lord is dead Tony, don't know if his party is still going though.

Kevin Molloy
89 Posted 21/06/2026 at 16:27:45

Tony, yes, agreed. I don't think we get to vote our way out of this mess, certainly not in the short term.

I also agree with your other post, this is a spiritual battle.

Jeff Spiers
90 Posted 21/06/2026 at 19:45:59

Tony. The French did it in1789. Can we?

Jimmy Carr
91 Posted 21/06/2026 at 00:27:30

Burnham in 10 Downing Street gives Labour (or a coalition of Labour/Lib-Dem/Green) a much better chance of keeping Reform out, this is the only thing that matters in British politics at the moment.

I've watched a few right wing podcasters react to the Makerfield result, and they're already shitting themselves. Good.

Farage and Co. are political grifters with no ideas on how to govern the country. They're a one trick party and need to be exposed, Burnham has just demonstrated he can do it.

Paul Griffiths
92 Posted 22/06/2026 at 03:36:47

We chopped the king's head off on 30 January 1649 Jeff (90).

Paul Griffiths
93 Posted 22/06/2026 at 07:42:47

Never a truer word spoken Tony mate - 36.

Keep the radio on in the cab for Kier Starmer's resignation speech.

Frank Wolfe
94 Posted 22/06/2026 at 08:07:12

I told my kopite cousin that Trump (who he naturally hates) is a Labour Party supporter just to do his head in.

Jeff Spiers
95 Posted 22/06/2026 at 09:11:16

Thanks, Tony. Was it for same reason the French sorted out their monarchy?

Jeff Spiers
96 Posted 22/06/2026 at 09:29:33

Jimmy @91.

Unfortunately, like all politicians, right and left, Burnham will do as he's told by the vile global elite. Money talks.

Steve Brown
97 Posted 22/06/2026 at 09:40:25

7th PM in 10 years on the way.

Britain is becoming an ungovernable banana republic. An international laughing stock, a cautionary tale.

That is what happens when you trade off 6-8% GDP growth so you can have a blue passport.

It wasn't the "global elite" that voted to make us poorer for a generation in the Brexit referendum, it was the Great British public.

So I suggest we all quit our endless fucking whining about cost of living and own it.

Chris Williams
98 Posted 22/06/2026 at 10:15:41

Tony @87,

You may recall Rupert Lowe, as the Chairman of Southampton FC.

The bloke who hung David Jones out to dry, and fired him, when he was being accused in a spurious legal case, that eventually collapsed.

Unless I'm mistaken, of course, so it's probably okay to call him out as a twat.

Les Callan
99 Posted 22/06/2026 at 10:23:41

Starmer resigned.

Jeff Spiers
100 Posted 22/06/2026 at 11:17:47

Steve. The global elite control everything. They own all the world governments.

The great British public also voted in Conservative and Labour governments. It didn't end well. Marxists are rubbing their hands together.

John Collins
101 Posted 22/06/2026 at 13:18:53

Our new PM is a season ticket holder.

Congratulations, Andy. Get nationalising asap, please.

Jeff Spiers
102 Posted 22/06/2026 at 14:44:44

Chris 97.

I am quite happy for you to call him out as a twat.

Tony Abrahams
103 Posted 22/06/2026 at 14:48:46

You might be correct, Chris, but I think something similar has also happened at Everton with regards Sigurdsson, mate.

I don't know much about that episode with the French, Jeff, but if people are correct and there is currently a displacement going on in the British Isles, then I don't think it will take long before the monarchy is dissolved!!!

John Collins
104 Posted 22/06/2026 at 15:25:39

Chris.

Dirty bastard Lowe the way he presumed Davy Jones guilty before proof.

All for a little shithouse in approved school who got told to make something up to get compensation. He blamed his case for his dad's premature death.

John Collins
105 Posted 22/06/2026 at 15:28:20

Tony.

Sigurdsson was thrown under the bus, mate. A disgrace the way the club threw petrol on the fire.

Andrew Ellams
106 Posted 22/06/2026 at 15:46:27

Chris @ 97,

Lowe also did the opposite and refused to get rid of a youth team coach at Southampton who was accused of child abuse and went on to be convicted.

Ron Sear
107 Posted 22/06/2026 at 16:29:51

Gawd this 'Global Elite' stuff is beyond parody.

Who the hell is dumb enough to believe that politicians who are clearly a bunch of people with ideas that roam all over the place would ever work in coordination with some mysterious organisation running with some worked-out agenda?

An absolutely hilarious bunch of conspiracy nutters but dangerous because by definition half the world's population has an IQ of less than 100 -- and they are the only ones Reform and Restore have to circle.

Mark Steers
108 Posted 22/06/2026 at 16:50:11

Everton got a new Number 10...

Andy Burnham!

Jeff Spiers
109 Posted 22/06/2026 at 17:10:11

Ron. I am not a conspiracy nutter, nor dumb. I do believe in global elite. That is my take on what is happening in the world..

If it turns out I am wrong, I'll hold my hands up. I am right to have an opinion. Don't ever call me a nutter or dumb again. Take care.

John Collins
110 Posted 22/06/2026 at 17:27:41

Ron.

Read Kleptopia.
All will be revealed

Ron Sear
111 Posted 22/06/2026 at 17:30:57

Jeff, I will regard your comment "Take Care" very, very seriously.

On the other hand, I can't help wondering who this global elite actually is because they are not doing a very good job of being an elite if they end up with a world population continually squabbling, mass destruction and warfare, potential nuclear annihilation, AI destroying the ability to earn a living, food and water stocks disappearing as the temperature goes through the roof, and worst of all, everybody being glued to zombie phones until the sun wipes us all out.

Oh... and Moyes running Everton.

John Collins
112 Posted 22/06/2026 at 17:36:54

" I can't help wondering who this global elite actually is because they are not doing a very good job of being an elite if they end up with a world population continually squabbling, mass destruction and warfare."

The naivety is refreshing.

Jeff Spiers
113 Posted 22/06/2026 at 18:11:31

Ron. Thanks for your feedback. Do you think I am an evil man?

Seriously, I say "Take care" to nearly everybody I talk and write to, even my own family. With respect, if it offends you that much, I will not on this occasion.

Jeff Spiers
114 Posted 22/06/2026 at 18:35:45

John.

Very refreshing!!

Paul Griffiths
115 Posted 22/06/2026 at 21:39:20

Jeff Spiers 100 The global elite control everything. They own all the world governments. 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂😂

Jeff, can you give us the names whether individual or organisation of this erm 'global elite' who erm 'own all [ALL!] the world governments'?

Kunal Desai
116 Posted 22/06/2026 at 22:09:30

Goodluck to Andy Burnham. That prime ministers job is a poison chalice. Seven prime ministers in ten years now, laughable, almost as bad as Everton have had in managers. Eight in that time.

Let's not hope it a new PM bounce and six month later he falls away and on his sword.

Paul Griffiths
117 Posted 22/06/2026 at 22:29:05

Yep Kunal, best of luck to our Andy. A different sort of politician to Starmer.

John Collins
118 Posted 22/06/2026 at 22:52:01

Paul G

As a man of reading, give Kleptopia a read.

Derek Thomas
119 Posted 22/06/2026 at 23:20:17

Burnham is like the dog that chases cars - now he's caught it what is he going to do with it?

Cost of living, Government debt and, by association, spending and taxes, Immigration...

Starmer won't take any of these problems -- or others -- with him when he goes.

Paul Kossoff
120 Posted 22/06/2026 at 23:27:25

Burnham for Prime Minister?

First job: fix the transport links for his beloved Everton.

Second: deport Moyes back to Scotland.😀

Paul Griffiths
121 Posted 22/06/2026 at 23:32:21

Cheers, John (118).

I have read Burgis's book, mate, but it's not about 'global elite control' for me at any rate. Rather, it investigated a sort of global financial system where political leaders and criminals shelter and shift stolen wealth. Not exactly about 'owning' all world governments in my mind.

And, if I remember correctly, there's not a part in the book where Burgis argues this.

John Collins
122 Posted 22/06/2026 at 23:41:18

I agree, Paul, my intention wasn't to suggest otherwise.

It's an eye-opener though.

Paul Griffiths
123 Posted 22/06/2026 at 00:38:26

That is absolutely the case, John.

Wonderful piece of investigative journalism and scary.

John Collins
124 Posted 23/06/2026 at 01:10:56

Scary indeed, Paul.
The man in the street has no influence whatsoever after voting the people in power into office, mate. Wham, bam, thank you, mam.

Best to just create your own little community, look after each other, and do a good turn when you can. We ordinary people are well out of the bigger picture, mate.

Jeff Spiers
125 Posted 22/06/2026 at 07:21:40

Paul. Good morning.

Back in the late 1960s, I began to notice that Jewish people were not particularly liked across the world. Why? Done me no harm. Hitler? Well, the rest is history.

Until I asked a local shopkeeper, again why? Quote "The Jewish nation will rise again and will control and own Europe through the Banks. Mark my words."

Paul, that stuck in my brain and, at 74 years of age, I can still hear his words. Once a weak nation, they are a very powerful force.

I may be wrong. If so, I'll hold my hands up. If you prove me wrong with facts to the contrary, so be it. Have a nice day.

ps: I have no animosity towards Jewish people.

Steve Brown
126 Posted 23/06/2026 at 07:24:23

Paul, 3rd job abolish Liverpool FC.

Tony Abrahams
127 Posted 23/06/2026 at 07:49:10

Sometimes I think it might be the Jews who are behind the immigration racket, Jeff. I personally think it is definitely a racket, simply because of the way it has been so uncontrolled.

Let us see the bank accounts of the people who have been at the forefront since Covid, and I'm sure you would see a lot of money has been filtered into the accounts of the friends & family of the people who are close to a lot of these very corrupt politicians.

John Collins
128 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:12:46

Bang at it, Tony and Jeff.

Starmer was earning £5,000 per day as a, QC. Yet he left all that for MP wages of around £80,000 annually?

Just one example amongst hundreds.

Andrew Ellams
129 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:13:38

Some Jews, Tony, or all of the Jews?

Good God.

Paul Griffiths
130 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:22:12

'Sometimes I think it might be the Jew, who are behind the immigration racket, Jeff'.

Jesus, Tony. I hope that we don't fall out over this sorry and sad comment. I'm genuinely shocked, mate.

Darren Hind
131 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:33:55

"The man in the street has no influence whatsoever after voting the people in power into office, mate"

Kinell John. You've known this all your life. It's not new.

Tony,

You are clearly a man who cares for others (whoever they may be) but you need to be a bit careful with the way you word things, son.

Give this politics lark a miss. You only have to look at the shite spouted by others on here to know it's a fucking minefield, mate.

John Collins
132 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:38:55

I certainly have, Darren, and lived my life accordingly.

John Collins
133 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:45:20

Tony,

I posted last week I didn't consider you to be racist, I still don't.

You've opened yourself up there to the anti-Semitic accusation mate.

Paul Griffiths
134 Posted 23/06/2026 at 08:50:15

John C/Darren H, one of the greatest but saddest books I have ever read is The Making of the English Working Class by E P Thompson on the years 1780-1832. That was when there was a chance to make things different along with Chartism 1839-48 on which Thompson's missus Dorothy has written the best book.

But all too often the working class were kicking against relentless 'progress' - industrialisation etc - and were on the 'wrong' side of erm 'history'. Organised labour and the Independent Labour Party were a few decades in the future.

Dave Abrahams
135 Posted 23/06/2026 at 09:05:34

Tony (125)

Sometimes it's best to count to 10 before you post!

Eric Myles
136 Posted 23/06/2026 at 09:08:42

John #123, you're starting to sound like Russell Brand.

Jeff Spiers
137 Posted 23/06/2026 at 09:12:37

Paul, good morning.

Your comment on my post, which you asked for, please. Or is it time to move on?

John Collins
138 Posted 23/06/2026 at 09:15:57

As long as it has a happy ending, Eric.

Jeff Spiers
139 Posted 23/06/2026 at 09:43:17

Ron. Please a feedback from post 113 would be grateful.

Kevin Molloy
140 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:03:21

The Jews does not mean All Jews. The Gospel of John makes a million references to 'the Jews', and most of them are not complimentary. But none of those examples included Jesus, his Mother or the Apostles (who were of course all Jewish). 'The Jews' just meant the power brokers, the community leaders.

I have a mate who is an Israeli Arab, he though still won't refer to 'the Jews' when talking about what is going on there. He feels most of the general population are being manipulated by the leaders. He prefers to refer to 'Zionists';
it's a tricky one.

Certainly America seems to have several powerful groups who have managed to gain considerable influence over the politics there. One such group are Wasps; you might say 'the Wasps control things there'... and nobody would bat an eyelid.

At this moment in time, it is the Jewish lobby that is most powerful (in my view). Does that mean all Jews control America? Of course not. But it's not a stretch to contend the powerful lobby currently controlling American politics is fundamentally Jewish. That may change... it probably will.

Not to distress Mike too much, I've always liked Jews. How could you not? All of our culture is saturated with their brilliance and humour.

And I understand (as much as I can) why Jews are nervous of being pigeonholed, especially at this time with the events in the Middle East. But I think it's a bad idea to make issues taboo, to drive them underground... that just breeds suspicion. We should be free to discuss such matters (and thereby defuse them).

The Italians weren't best pleased when most low-level crime in New York was laid at their door thanks to the Italian Mafia. But it was an Italian Mafia, so what do you do, refer to organised crime, but never mention the Italian element? That seems daft.

Andrew Ellams
141 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:26:20

Kevin,

Groups of Jews are controlling the world?

We've been here before.

Alan McGuffog
142 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:29:26

It's the Bolsheviks and Freemasons that worry me...

Dave Abrahams
143 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:36:22

What happened to Russell Brand?

Is he still on remand for various charges or has he been up and tried, found guilty, or the charges dismissed?

Kevin Molloy
144 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:37:08

In my view, it is much more complicated than that, Andrew.

Jewish being one of several powerful groups, and by no means 'in charge of the world'.

Andrew Ellams
145 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:48:14

He pleaded not guilty, Dave, and his trial has been delayed to October because further charges have been brought against him.

Andrew Ellams
146 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:53:14

Kevin, blaming any of the world's problems on groups of men relating to any single religious group is just lazy bigotry.

We've seen in the past few years that a Jewish man led an international ring of crime and extortion from his own private island but his co-conspirators were a mix of races, nationalities and faiths and the thing that brought them together was greed.

Kevin Molloy
147 Posted 23/06/2026 at 11:55:32

Would you say the same to a crime investigator reporting on the Italian mafia, Andrew?

Would you say, if he mentioned the Mafia, "You're just blaming crime on a race of people"?

John Collins
148 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:01:01

Kevin,

Jewish groups hold a lot of power in USA politics. One group donated a quarter of a billion dollars to Trump's campaign. Out of the goodness of their hearts? Or down payment on future favours?

I have a few Jewish friends, lovely family people. The Zionists are creating the mayhem in the area and beyond.

Tony Abrahams
149 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:09:56

I'm anti-everything, John.

Most people just want to live and let live, and if I'm being truthful, one of the worst things about this modern world is how some people just jump all over words.

How can people be sent to jail for words? But actual violence, like what was witnessed in Manchester Airport, not be punished with a custodial sentence?

There was mini-riots when these kids were initially locked up and I don't think any of them met the full force of the law, Kier Starmer style? (Unlike those far-right thugs.)

I loved the story about Moses parting the Red Sea to help the Israelites get away from danger, but something about the Netanyahu regime just appears to be very sinister.

Divide and conquer, it's probably been going on forever.

John Collins
150 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:13:46

Netanyahu is in a tight bollocks grip, Tony. He has to do what the two nutters require to stay in power.

The minute he loses power, he will be nicked.

Jeff Spiers
151 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:23:47

John 126 Bang at it Tony/Jeff. Please explain?

John Collins
152 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:26:44

They're at it Jeff, in a bang at it mode.

Raymond Fox
153 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:29:03

We all form opinions on what is reported in the media, they are all-powerful and always have been.

The problem nowadays is, if you give an opinion about a race of people, you are branded -- god forbid -- a 'racist'. It seems to have taken over from murder, to be seen as the most serious crime by some people which is ridiculous.

Can anyone, hand on heart, say they like all races equally well!

Andrew Ellams
154 Posted 23/06/2026 at 12:49:52

Raymond, how do you dislike an entire race?

Individual people of course, but a race?

Steve Brown
155 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:18:47

Raymond @ 151, let's start with the stupid British.

This a low acountability thread, blaming everyone for the country's problems. Global elites, jews, muslims, the EU, politicians, the judicial system, immigrants -- this is a democracy, so how about we take responsibilty for the decisions we made?

Who voted for banking deregulation? -- we did.
Who voted for austerity? -- we did.
Who voted for Brexit? -- we did.

The 2008 banking crisis, austerity and Brexit caused sesmic shocks to the UK economy that has killed growth, including wage growth. Brexit alone reduced the UK's GDP by an estimated 6% to 8%, dragging down the economy over the last decade.

So rather than blame others, it's about time we took a bit of responsibility. Because the next step in this process seems to be legitimising the targeting of others for our own stupidity by voting Reform or Restore.

Tony Abrahams
156 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:23:34

Good advice, Darren, thanks mate and as for falling out with people who might not have explained themselves properly, Paul, don't do it!!

And the Germans kill the Jews
And the Jews kill the Arabs
And the Arabs kill the hostages
And that is the news
And is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
He said "Mama, mama, The President's a fool
Why do I have to keep reading these technical manuals?" And the joint chiefs of staff
And the brokers on Wall Street said
“Don't make me laugh, you're a smart kid.”

It all makes perfect fucking sense to me, Roger!!!!

Andrew @153, brilliant mate, because as we know Kopites come from so many different places nowadays.👍

Brent Stephens
157 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:24:25

Raymond #152 "Can anyone hand on heart say they like all races equally well!"

Yes! Me for one. Hand on heart. What I don't like are certain individuals from each race, for individual not racist reasons.

John Collins
158 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:31:24

Can anyone, hand on heart, say they like all races equally well?

Which races do you not like, Raymond?

Raymond Fox
159 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:33:49

I'm talking about preferences, I wouldn't go out of my way to do down any individual because they are of a certain race but certain races get reputations for behaving in a certain manner so I take that into consideration.

I didn't say I dislike all people of one race; just that, given the choice, I would prefer some over others.

Tony Abrahams
160 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:41:21

The thing I remember most about Brexit, Steve, is that although voting appears to be democratic, I just remember reading about how big businesses were jumping sides right up until the very end, which left me feeling that if big decisions like this can actually be made at such a whim, then something was obviously wrong.

It made me think that people needed more time and the vote had been rushed through.

And the second thing I remember is waking up to see that the country had voted to leave the European Union (I voted to remain but I don't particularly like the European Union) and listening to Farage, spouting a load of lies about it being the old labour voters who had spun the decision.

While Farage was talking, you could see on the television screens that the Labour strongholds in areas like Liverpool, Manchester and Sunderland, had all voted to remain, so the man was probably sensationalising a load of lies.

John Collins
161 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:45:21

"Certain races get reputations for behaving in a certain manner."

The plot thickens. What races and what behaviour?

Liam Mogan
162 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:52:36

Not liking a whole race of people is literally the definition of racism.

John Keating
164 Posted 23/06/2026 at 13:59:42

Not really interested in Andy Burnham. He just happens to be a Blue like thousands of us.

Actually, my main interest is why we haven't released on general sale our kit for next season? Surely with holidays etc it's a great time to make a shed load of money?

Jeff Spiers
165 Posted 23/06/2026 at 14:03:53

Thank you, John

John Keating
166 Posted 23/06/2026 at 14:51:08

Jeff,

It doesn't matter what your politics are. At the end of the day, they're all looking out for themselves.

Carney now leading Canada. Our best mate Derek Hatton... Now we have our “real Evertonian”. Go and ask how his missus is doing in Manchester?

Only stable thing in this life, regards religion, matrimony etc is us arseholes who support us regardless.

Tony Abrahams
167 Posted 23/06/2026 at 14:51:43

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Everton Football Club Memo, 2026.

Michael Kenrick
168 Posted 23/06/2026 at 14:55:59

Tony,

In the 2016 EU Referendum, the disconnect between the Labour Party's official "Remain" stance and its traditional voter base was one of the biggest stories of the night. While individual constituency boundaries don't map perfectly onto local council counting areas, academic and parliamentary data established that roughly 70% of Labour-held seats voted to Leave. So I'm not sure that what you heard was lies.

Many of these traditional Labour heartlands — historically driven by heavy industry, manufacturing, and mining — later became known as the core of the "Red Wall."

Hartlepool: Voted 69.6% Leave.
Sunderland: Voted 61.3% Leave.
Wigan & Leigh: Voted over 63% Leave.

Lots of other examples.

And please stop posting in All caps -- you're not Donald Trump! And I presume you mean 'motto', not 'memo'... otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. Is the heat getting to you?

Jeff Spiers
169 Posted 23/06/2026 at 15:06:32

Tony @149,

Divide and Conquer will always be here...

Jeff Spiers
170 Posted 23/06/2026 at 16:04:10

I've enjoyed most of the posts on here. Some eyeopeners, intelligent and educational. A couple that never returned answers to my questions. You know who are. Man up. But we can only hope?
for a better future. This old pensioner needs a rest!! Many Thanks .I mean it. Take care

Chris Williams
171 Posted 23/06/2026 at 16:06:47

Tony,

I think a lot of the cities voted to remain, but it was largely the towns that voted to leave, as Michael said, who were the old industrial bases, textiles, engineering, steel,mining and such.

They’d got well shafted ever since Thatcher, and by successive governments since, getting nothing like the financial support the cities got, and falling steadily further behind.

This is where much of Reform’s votes come from. They’re still well behind now.

One big difference in voting was age, and from memory, about 60% of over 60s voted leave, and about 60% of under 30s voted remain. There’s a lot more of the former, which is still a huge number 10 years on, as birthdates have been steadily dropping too.

The biggest single issue was immigration, I think.

John Keating
172 Posted 23/06/2026 at 16:19:43

Chris, I voted to remain.

Problem was the “establishment” Politicols and Civil Service didn't agree with the plebs. Since the vote, everything has been done to do everything not to implement Brexit. Ask all the leaders of the established parties, including our new No 10 Evertonian.

They'd go back in a heartbeat, regardless of the cost. Burnham, Evertonian and all, will be just like the rest of the non-entities.

Tony Abrahams
173 Posted 23/06/2026 at 16:21:04

Thanks for the information Chris. I also thought the biggest vote swinger was immigration, but after reading what you have written about the little towns that had been shafted by successive governments, then maybe there was more to it, mate?

I know I shouldn't categorise, Michael, but thanks for putting me straight about the people of Sunderland. I have honestly always thought the Mackems have got a lot more sense than the Geordies, and this is probably why I got them mixed up.

John Collins
174 Posted 23/06/2026 at 16:52:22

They got shafted again, Tony.

After Brexit, a lot of the industry moved their base from the North East.

Kevin Prytherch
175 Posted 23/06/2026 at 17:10:22

There is a divide in the country, and the typical, socially accepted reason is that it's down to the so-called far right.

However, reading through this thread and listening to the typical media, it's ironic how many of the left wing among us see it as acceptable to belittle those who don't agree with them.

I wonder how many will accept that they are widening the divide by continually belittling and questioning the intelligence of those who simply don't agree with them?

John Collins
176 Posted 23/06/2026 at 17:20:00

I'll accept any valid point, regardless of who it comes from, Kevin.
If I disagree, I will say so. You're right though, it does get a bit personal at times.

Tony Abrahams
177 Posted 23/06/2026 at 17:52:40

There is a line of thought amongst people who are now viewed as being far right, that a lot of things wouldn't get into the public domain if it wasn't for platforms like WhatsApp or X.

Andy Burnham is currently getting quite a bit of dirt dug up on him on one of these platforms, but what else do we expect for the Prime Minister in waiting?

Chris Williams
178 Posted 23/06/2026 at 17:57:09

John 172

Yes I voted Remain too, but I didn’t finally decide until the day before. I was away on holiday, and my son had my proxy. When I rang him from Menorca to tell him, he said “I should fucking think so”.

It’s not just the politicians who want to go back, poll after poll shows that the majority want to go back now.

Yes Tony, it was a complex vote, but those “behind” towns who voted Leave, are now a bloody sight worse off now than 10 years ago, as is the country. But that was the vote.

Corbyn was a habitual Leaver. In the mid 70s, the Labour Party Conference voted to leave the EEC, having joined under Heath a while before. I’ve little doubt which way young Jeremy voted, and like many of his firm beliefs, he never really left the the 70s.

Corbyn never said a word on the subject in 2016, that I recall. He left it all to Starmer. He’d call it sticking to his principles, others would call it spending 40 years learning fuck all.

Wilson held a referendum about staying in, which he won..

Andrew Ellams
179 Posted 23/06/2026 at 18:09:59

Tony, those platforms are a hive of misinformation mostly driven by paid right wing bots in Russia, India or Nigeria.

Jeff Spiers
180 Posted 23/06/2026 at 18:26:06

Kevin @175 and John @176.

To the point, intelligent, no malice, posts. Brilliant!

John Collins
181 Posted 23/06/2026 at 18:26:26

Dangerous sites Tony.

Funded behind the scenes by those with a vested interest.

Tony Abrahams
182 Posted 23/06/2026 at 18:55:52

I have similar feelings with regards a lot of the mainstream media, whenever I read certain websites or listen to certain news channels nowadays, John.

I have already said before that I went to bed believing Trump had won the American election because of how biased both The Guardian website and ITV News had been when reporting on the subject, without giving anything factual to back up their views.

If Burnham hasn't got anything to hide, then he should have nothing to worry about.

Nearly every single media outlet has their own set agenda and to move away from reporting on this rather than the truth seems to be quite common right across the board (both left wing and right wing).

I don't want a prime minister that refuses to look into and then prosecute the people in the highest echelons of society who covered up things like the rape gangs, but it's those dangerous websites that I should be worried about.

Rupert Lowe is one such person with a vested interest but, if he's uncovering some very disgusting bastards high up in both the police and therefore the establishment, then he should be applauded for this.

Paul Griffiths
183 Posted 23/06/2026 at 20:59:46

Who ever turned this thread into an opportunity to spout shite about 'Jews' or 'the Jews' ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Your answer to me Tony A - 156 - when I was commenting on one of the worst pieces of racism I've ever seen on here was glib, trite, and disgraceful.

Kevin Molloy's long and winding thread was contorted gibberish.

And then we have his 147: 'Would you say the same to a crime investigator reporting on the Italian mafia, Andrew? Would you say, if he mentioned the Mafia, "You're just blaming crime on a race of people"?

The lack of understanding is chronic and sad. Mr. Molly, the Mafia are not 'a race of people', an ethnic group, or a religious group.

Unbelievable.

Dave Abrahams
184 Posted 23/06/2026 at 21:30:03

Andrew (145) Thanks for your reply, the case is still going on— it seems to be a very long time when the charges were first brought against him.

Paul Griffiths
185 Posted 23/06/2026 at 22:16:38

Bit like Partey DA.

John Collins
186 Posted 24/06/2026 at 01:18:59

I don't want a prime minister that refuses to look into and then prosecute the people in the highest echelons of society who covered up things like the rape gangs, but it's those dangerous websites that I should be worried about.

You can do both Tony.

Matt Traynor
187 Posted 24/06/2026 at 03:11:52

I am no longer based in the UK, limited to just visiting twice a year. I spent the majority of my career working as an advisor to foreign governments. Asia, Middle East, and now back in Asia (albeit working for a UK company finally!)

I've dealt with politicians, Royals and other senior influential types - and trusted very few. But anyone can have skeletons in their closet.

One thing to consider about "dangerous websites" and mainstream media - a respected UK political journalist explained that the reason for the swing to the right in the UK media is a lot of these "news" outlets are now online platforms, and a few years ago realised a lot of their eyeballs were from the US. The Daily Mail and Telegraph particularly got onto this about 8 or 9 years ago. Both those outlets have a desk at the White House press section. Because they need the eyes to push their advertising and subscription model they will quite happily push a right wing agenda. Even to the point of publishing an anti-UK article.

Think about that - a supposed UK "newspaper" printing something anti-UK... But then the Daily Mail has history going back to WW2 - something their average "reader" would have no concept of.

This has been going on for many years, but society has fractured somewhat and in my opinion, a combination of factors (Brexit, Covid, various government scandals etc.) has broken the social contract between Government and people.

We as a society will not be better for it.

A lot of these figures are only interested in enriching themselves. Drumpf is unquestionably the most corrupt President in history - he's enriching him and his family, and rewarding those who got him there, in plain sight. I have no doubt he's all over the Epstein files. I have no doubt he was compromised back in 1978 as a Russian asset, but he's just a symptom of the swing to the right.

Good luck to Andy. He's going to need it. I suspect he will "fail" but it won't be for the lack of trying. The UK has become ungovernable.

Andrew Ellams
188 Posted 24/06/2026 at 07:11:31

Dave @ 184, there was a delay to the trial because more charges have been added to the sheet recently.

Tony Abrahams
189 Posted 24/06/2026 at 07:37:56

That’s what I’m hoping for John, especially when you read the last sentence of Matt’s interesting post, mate.

I learned new words from you Paul, so thanks for sharing your views mate, but I think I stated in a later post that I don’t really have a problem with the Jewish people, but rather the person who is in control right now.

This current Israeli regime are imo, capable of absolutely anything. Clever people but very, very dangerous, (look what they done with those pagers) so when I look around and see the division that the current uncontrolled immigration policies have created across Europe, I often question who has been behind it? (Was it politicians with good hearts, or was it politicians making money?)

It’s bad out there right now. Listen to John, who is telling us he has got fourth generation scouse friends getting stick because of the colour of their skin, and this is something that I thought people had been growing out of since the dark days of the eighties.

There is a large amount of unhealthy division going on right around the country right now, and if Matt, is correct and our country really is ungovernable, then the future is going to very, very bleak, for us all.

Eric Myles
190 Posted 24/06/2026 at 07:42:07

Dave #184, it was a very long time from when allegations were made against Brand to when he was actually charged, three years I'm thinking?

But he was charged only recently I think, within this year?

Jeff Spiers
191 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:02:19

Tony, agree. What chance is there really of any peace. The pot has been well and truly stirred. Nations armed to the teeth with the capability to destroy the planet tenfold. Politicians don't give a fuck. They'll disappear into the state of the art nuke bunkers. Us peasants? We'll eat each other.

John Collins
192 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:16:54

It looks ungovernable at times Tony.
Especially these riots mate, imo most of the kids turn up at them to fight the police, no real interest in the political agendas.

The man you refer to will be arrested in close to 100 countries if he sets foot in any of them, a war criminal imo.

Hes held by the bollocks by two absolute nutters, he has to do their bidding or he's out and subsequently arrested the day he loses power.
So he continues buying into the programme put together by Zionists that a few pages in a thousands of years old script advised them was their right.
A despicable man.

Jeff Spiers
193 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:24:58

John. And they're left to do so.–

Dave Abrahams
194 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:41:18

John (186) Cover ups have always been used and the further you go back the more you’ll find them with the higher up in society the bigger the cover up. It is a lot harder these days to hide what needs covering up.

In my time one of the biggest was in 1963with the “ John Profumo Affair” over his carrying on with Christine Keeler, a good time girl, royalty and many other prominent people were involved but Dr. Stephen Ward was made the scapegoat and was sentenced to a few months imprisonment but was “allowed” to go home first to settle his affairs. He allegedly committed suicide that night, he knew too much and was got out of the way, my opinion amongst many other people who made a marching protest at the way he treated.

Chris Williams
195 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:43:20

Tony,

If your issue is the actions of the Israeli Government and the IDF, then that is not necessarily the same as having an issue with “the Jews”.

Netanyahu calls any criticism of his government anti Semitic, which is nonsense, but by constantly conflating the two, he’s causing massive issues for Jewish people worldwide, like in London, where some of the hostility seems based on the activity in Gaza and Lebanon.

Israel is due an Election this year, and he may well lose, and then be banged up, but he needs his ‘forever war’ to forestall that, and is currently trying to undermine Trump’s peace deal for the same reason.

Paul Griffiths
196 Posted 24/06/2026 at 09:52:14

EXCELLENT POST Chris - 195.

A rare moment of lucidity on this thread since someone turned it into a Jewish feast.

Andrew Ellams
197 Posted 24/06/2026 at 10:09:31

Chris @ 195. I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's hat if Israel holds an election this year.

John Collins
198 Posted 24/06/2026 at 10:29:13

Paul 196.

Ill have the salt beef and pickle please

Tony Abrahams
199 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:07:12

I don’t think I have got any problems with the ordinary man, from any country in the world, Chris, although on reflection I can remember going to Jerusalem, and getting interrogated by the Israeli Customs, until I just shook my head and asked them if they wanted to come with me for the day.

The Jewish tour-guide, was very aloof, warning the group not to buy anything from the Palestinian kids, but I was a street kid myself many years ago, so I had a lot more in common with those little characters, who were trying to earn a shekel, and when I started juggling their football, and doing a couple of little tricks, it didn’t take them long for them to start calling me Maradona! No wonder I liked them!!

Dave Abrahams
200 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:09:19

Chris (195) The truth and common sense should always overcome the thoughts that a lot of people come up with and the Jewish prime minister is definitely causing problems for his country and Jewish people all over the world not to mention the rest of us if the ultimate bomb goes off.

Nice to hear from you on here Chris I hope you are keeping well in sunny New Brighton!

John Collins
201 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:46:38

The anti semitic shouts are the easy way out.
People are scared to criticise in case they get called anti semite.
Its not that the ones using the phrase are offended.
More like a tool to be used against anyone legitimately criticising the abhorrent behaviour in Gaza.

Dave Lynch
202 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:53:28

What's going on in Palestine is ethnic cleansing, you'd of thought the Jews would know a thing or 2 about that after WW2.

The minute Hamas killed those poor people at the concert this was going to happen...both sides really need to take a long hard look at themselves

Chris Williams
203 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:54:11

Dave,

So far so good, Dave, You too hopefully?

Bit too hot for me mate, but a nice breeze off the Dee helps

I’m with you on Stephen Ward. Absolutely stitched up, but that whole thing was an Editors wet dream, with Russian spies, MI5, call girls, whatever the hell they were,, guns being fired at the flat Keeler was sharing with Mandy Rice Davies,and a black pimp, Lucky Gordon.

Private Eye blew the story wide open, with a story about a Russian naval attaché, they called Alexander Bolokov, or something.

Philip Larkin wrote a poem, including the lines
Sexual intercourse was invented in 1963
Which was a little late for me
Between the Lady Chatterley case
And the Beatles’first LP

Andrew 197
Save the brim for me.

Andrew Ellams
204 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:54:39

You're right John but there is also a flip side to that with genuine anti semites using the atrocities in Gaza to mask their abhorrent views.

George Galloway and his horrible little mob spring immediately to mind.

John Collins
205 Posted 24/06/2026 at 11:59:32

I think there is a danger more people will turn to anti semitism given the news coverage of the women, children and babies suffering death and horrific injuries.

Is that the same George Galloway who fought shoulder to shoulder with jewish ANC heroes all over South Africa Andrew?

Tony Abrahams
206 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:02:18

I haven’t done enough research Dave, but my own view is that, surely a nation, that had spent so much time and effort creating a bogus business to sell those little pager bombs, (amongst other things) to Hezbollah, should have been a lot more security conscious, on the day those innocent people were either executed or kidnapped.

Andrew Ellams
207 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:02:59

Oh come one John. The man is an anti semitic bigot to the point that his last parliamentary election campaign in 2023 was endorsed by Nick Griffin.

Alan McGuffog
208 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:07:58

Lets get one thing clear. If a Jewish guy in Mossley Hill.or Prestwich or Golders Green gets assaulted by some nutter simply for being Jewish that, pure and simply, is anti semitic. It is not an attack on Zionism or Netanyahu.

John Collins
209 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:11:11

You never answered my question Andrew

Andrew Ellams
210 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:33:33

I did John. You may not like the answer but Galloway is a professional anti semite.

Kevin Molloy
211 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:45:02

can you give us some examples Andrew of his anti semitism?

Kevin Molloy
212 Posted 24/06/2026 at 12:51:36

No Paul, did you read what I said? They are known as the Italian Mafia. Much to the annoyance of ordinary Italians who feel tarred by the association. But whilst it is annoying, th crime reporter is correct to refer to the Italian mafia, cos that's what it is. Equally to refer to powerful jewish lobbying groups holding outsized sway over Congress in the US may be irritating to ordinary Jews, but that should hot prevent us from noticing and naming these groups. It doesn't mean All Jews, but this lobbying group can be characterised as Jewish.

John Collins
213 Posted 24/06/2026 at 13:01:30

You didn't Andrew.
I asked a specific question, you didn't provide an answer.

Little clue for you.
Its the only sentence followed by a question mark

Andrew Ellams
214 Posted 24/06/2026 at 13:19:44

For starters, John, even he claimed his alleged actions in South Africa were supported by some Jewish ANC activists. He never mentioned standing shoulder to shoulder with anybody. And Galloway's grasp of the truth is famously Trumpian.

He has of course met and supported both Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath Party, as well as the murderous Assad regime in Syria and the current regime in Iran. I don't think his support of Vladimir Putin is much of a secret either.

John Collins
215 Posted 24/06/2026 at 13:24:12

"For starters, John, even he claimed his alleged actions in South Africa were supported by some Jewish ANC activists."\ r

That's what I posted, Andrew.

"He never mentioned standing shoulder to shoulder."\

Have you been witness to every statement he has made?

Dave Abrahams
216 Posted 25/06/2026 at 08:50:32

Chris (203),

Yes, I'm doing okay but this heat is too much for me as well. I don't begrudge those who are enjoying this very sunny period although some young people are finding it hard going!

Back to politics, I usually find it best to leave them alone but now and again you see things going on and it's hard not to let them go.

That Profumo Affair was definitely one case along with Blair and the weapons of mass destruction which never were according to the man who investigated the case and who later committed suicide — so they said!

John Collins
217 Posted 25/06/2026 at 09:36:34

Dr David Kelly was his name, Dave.

Well worth a Google that one.

Jimmy Carr
218 Posted 25/06/2026 at 09:40:22

John (172) wrong. One problem with Brexit (obviously there were many) was that it was never defined by those who wanted to leave. Other than 'leaving the EU' no-one knew what Brexit meant, and they didn't want to know as it would have meant muddying their message for the masses.

Therefore you have grifters like Farage claiming that Brexit was not implemented properly. Yet his definition of 'implemented' will be different to Jacob Rees-Mogg's, and yours. To this day no-one has definitively explained the nuts and bolts of Brexit. In other words, it was bollocks.

Brexit was the biggest political hoodwink on the British people since I can't think when. It was a change to our very constitution for no other reason than to solve a local argument in the Tory party. Talk about taking a hammer to crack a nut. If the civil service tried to put the brakes on in the background, then good, someone was at least not caught up in the nationalistic jingoism of it.

Sunlit uplands my arse.

I would love to see Burham stand on rejoining the EU as part of Labour's next manifesto. Unfortunately I don't think the Labour Party has the balls to do it.

Tony Abrahams
219 Posted 25/06/2026 at 09:41:11

Yes Dave, I absolutely detest Kier Starmer, but I can still give him a lot of credit for him being a lot more responsible than one of his mentors (Digital Blair) when it came to helping America with Iran.

To be fair to Israel, I only have to listen to Iranian's who now happen to live in Liverpool to realise how brutal the Iranian regime can be. If they can massacre 40,000 of their own people because they don't agree with them, then imagine what they would do to Israel if they never had America on their side? (Little boy soldiers -- God's on our side and so is Washington!)

Like almost every sane person, I am totally against what is happening in parts of Palestine and Lebanon, but one thing that hasn't gone unnoticed (by myself) is that there was never such an outcry from everyone when it was Muslims killing Muslims, which was definitely the case with that equally brutal Assad regime.

Just fuckin hurry up and start showing a real interest in signing some players, Everton. Give me something else to talk about… please.

John Collins
220 Posted 25/06/2026 at 09:56:03

Blair is held in the same esteem as Thatcher for me Tony. Net worth of around £50Mn, majority of it accrued through his connections in various governments he "helped" over the years.

He absolutely knew there was no WMD in Iraq but still sent British kids to appease his masters. A complete phoney.

Tony Abrahams
221 Posted 25/06/2026 at 10:32:53

In simple terms John, there are two types of mafia, but only one of them is legal

If Burnham has been feathering his own nest, then those naughty websites what the government would love to ban, will definitely expose him, but the problem has always been that if you want to try and expose the real dirty bastards, then it can often lead to a person committing suicide or being murdered.

Michael Kenrick
222 Posted 25/06/2026 at 11:43:32

Jimmy,

I think a large part of the Brexit vote was about regaining our independence and.
sovereignty.

To give Farage his due, he spent 15 years as an MEP watching from the inside how Brussels milked and mistreated the UK; eventually, he had the resolve and patriotic fervour to tell the British people that they had been lied to and stitched up, and he led a campaign to get us out.

Sadly, the Remainers did their best for years and years after the vote to do everything they could to reverse it, and as much as possible to block it from being implemented. The democratic will of the majority was deliberately obstructed by the Remaners at Westminster until Boris Johnson came in on the back of a General Election where he campaigned on getting it done.

And incredibly he got it done, despite the Remainers doing everything they could again to stop it.

But the argument still rages on. And misinformation abounds, no doubt on both sides. Surely there must have been a clear and obvious drop in GDP if the warnings of Project Fear carried any truth? But no one seems to be able to find that particular graph.

Labour are doing their utmost now to sneak us back in and must be opposed by everyone who values our independence as a once great nation.

Kevin Molloy
223 Posted 25/06/2026 at 12:49:57

can't believe you don't want us back in the cartel Michael, where we can have Auntie Ursula make all our decisions for us, and we get no further say on, well, anything.

John Collins
224 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:13:28

must be opposed by everyone who values our independence as a once great nation

When was that Michael?

Kevin Molloy
225 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:19:51

we ran the world at one point John

John Collins
226 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:24:53

Back in the good old days when your grandad was in school Kevin

Kevin Molloy
227 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:26:06

yes
upstairs downstairs.
good times.

John Collins
228 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:27:49

Your grandad would have been downstairs Kevin.
In the "Servants" quarters

Dave Abrahams
229 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:32:01

John (217) Thanks for Dr. Kelly’s Christian name John, I honestly knew his surname and that he was a doctor as well as his death being very suspicious.

Blair came on tv the night the war with Iraq was declared trying to explain to a room full of mothers whose sons were going to fight in Iraq why the war was necessary, I don’t think he convinced one of them that it was right.

Maggie Thatcher was revered by her followers and still is— she was reviled by many and still is and always will be for many things while her fight against the miners will be forgotten,

Kevin Molloy
230 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:32:01

they knew their place.

John Collins
231 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:32:47

Back in the good old days when we just turned up at many, many countries and claimed the land as British colony.
Pakistan.
India.
West Indies.
Singapore
Hong Kong.
Nigeria.
Kenya.
Egypt
Etc etc.
We plundered the national assets for ourselves and put the people into servitude.
A once great nation?

Kevin Molloy
232 Posted 25/06/2026 at 13:35:54

Are you going to campaign for Alexander to drop the Great cos he battered everyone John?
Great doesn't mean Good.

Raymond Fox
233 Posted 25/06/2026 at 14:12:20

The thing with the EU is would be nice to have the trade but not the rest of what goes with it.

Chris Williams
234 Posted 25/06/2026 at 14:18:50

Michael

Re GDP

The graphs aren’t difficult to find at all. I suggest you check out BOE, ONS, OBR, plenty of others.

Project Fear, or BOE as I prefer to call it estimated a 4% hit to GDP. at the time. Subsequent and more recent surveys have shown 6-8% actual hit.

One reason why the figure has got higher is that, Brexit being a process and not an event, is that many new barriers have gone up on trade, almost annually, disrupting supply chains. As agreed by Johnson.

So spend a few minutes having a look, and there they are. Believe them or not.

Kevin Molloy
235 Posted 25/06/2026 at 14:33:50

The Covid insanity has surely rendered all these graphs useless Chris?
If we were bumping along before, flushing half a trillion down the toilet and locking down the economy for years finished us off.

Chris Williams
236 Posted 25/06/2026 at 15:04:07

Hi Kevin,

These figures have been coming out fairly regularly, Kevin, the latest only this year.

I’m hoping that the bodies responsible for so much Government information, interest rates, commenting on the Budget, and providing the national stats for unemployment etc have sophisticated enough models to take COVID into account.

In fact they all provided data, during and post COVID, so I’m sure they have taken it into account. But like I said believe them or not.

The lived experience of people and small businesses 10 years on tend to support the data, as do the polls showing a majority supporting going back in. But that’s another issue and unlikely any time soon.

My main point is that there is no shortage of info, or graphs, as MK said. In his post.

Ian Pilkington
237 Posted 25/06/2026 at 15:41:00

Michael

Thank you for posting at 222 by far the most sensible and unbiased comments on this thread.

Eric Myles
238 Posted 25/06/2026 at 15:47:37

Heat Dave #216? I'm enjoying how cool it is compared to back home.

Eric Myles
239 Posted 25/06/2026 at 15:55:38

John #239, you missed out Australia and USA, although they were penal colonies. And Kenya was gifted to us by Oman, we didn't want it and tried to give it away to a religious group that wanted a place to establish a Jewish Homeland.

Mark Ryan
240 Posted 25/06/2026 at 22:15:36

Did anyone else see the footage when Andy Burnham was presented to the House of Commons when being sworn in as an MP the other day.

They played Z-Cars over the tannoy inside the chamber for him. Pure class.

Les Callan
241 Posted 25/06/2026 at 22:30:28

It was superb, Mark, but it wasn't played in the chamber. It was over-dubbed.

Still great though. He said so himself.

Paul Griffiths
242 Posted 25/06/2026 at 22:41:12

Australia was a penal colony, Eric.

British America was not, mate.

Paul Griffiths
243 Posted 25/06/2026 at 23:10:18

Michael K (222): ‘I think a large part of the Brexit vote was about regaining our independence and sovereignty'.

A much larger part was we don't want ‘them' here which a ‘large part' of ‘regaining our independence and sovereignty' also subscribed to. I can never forget the BBC interview with the bigot from Portsmouth the morning after who, when asked to explain his vote to leave, said ‘It's the immigrants [I bet he said inn'it]'. When asked if there were any other reasons, our man who was truly madly deeply concerned ‘about regaining our independence and sovereignty', added that he hated – wait for it – ‘being ruled from Amsterdam'.

‘…they had been lied to and stitched up, and he led a campaign to get us out'. Could you give us some significant examples of Farage being lied to MK, and then perhaps you could give us some of the lies passed around by the Leave Campaign?

‘The democratic will of the majority was deliberately obstructed by the Remainers at Westminster until Boris Johnson came in on the back of a General Election where he campaigned on getting it done. And incredibly he got it done, despite the Remainers doing everything they could again to stop it'.

Didn't really see you as a Boris man MK but build up the hyperbole why don't you – ‘incredibly'?

Let's not forget MK that it was a small majority and today a larger majority of UK voters want to rejoin the EU. Looks like the consequences of your Brexit might not have been as sunny as the people were promised. Yet another lie from Leave, that so many of you bought and fell for.

And then this, which I'm sorry MK, shows that you are not really up to scratch on everything post-BREXIT and now (that has a lot to do with explaining my last paragraph).

‘Surely there must have been a clear and obvious drop in GDP if the warnings of Project Fear carried any truth? But no one seems to be able to find that particular graph'.

Oh dear! Or coaching from Boris the man and Farage.

‘Labour are doing their utmost now to sneak us back in and must be opposed by everyone who values our independence as a once great nation'.

Dear God MK! I know that the World Cup is on right now and all those scrappy tattered U-Jacks limply dangle from lampposts. Get Elgar on. Dig out yer Gunner "Lofty" Harold Horace Herbert Willy Sugden uniforms. Let's wallow with joy in this ‘once great nation's' former exploitation, racism, slavery, and pogroms.

‘ …. everyone who values our independence as a once great nation'. That would be the ‘There were ten German bombers in the sky' lads MK and the anti-immigrant lads from new Southern towns and old Northern towns. You got some dodgy companions MK.

The same people MK who now suffer far more economically than before the Brexit they rushed to vote for in the areas of England where the immigrant population has most increased since 2016.

But don't worry, they will be on the Reform bandwagon now which is starting to get a creaky wheel or two.

Michael Kenrick
244 Posted 26/06/2026 at 14:01:40

No doubt this is all Leave Lies as well, Paul:

Brexit was not an economic catastrophe. Here’s the proof

Despite what Labour would have you think, leaving the EU barely left a mark.

If you look at the growth of UK imports from, and exports to, the EU, Brexit is all but invisible. Has EU trade been permanently damaged? Certainly not from the evidence. Both UK exports to the EU, and imports from the EU, are at record or near-record levels.

So the answer to the question – “did Brexit damage the UK economy?” – is emphatically “No”.

There is no evidence that leaving the EU has been bad for the UK economy, and plenty of evidence for the alternative explanations as to why we are not doing as well as we might be.

Paul Griffiths
245 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:02:26

Two can play at that game Michael (244).

Try this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/14/how-uk-economy-changed-since-brexit-vote-charts

Here's a little taster:

'As the 10th anniversary of the Brexit vote approaches, the verdict on Britain’s economic performance is clear: voting to leave has resulted in severe costs for households and businesses. ... But experts agree the long-term forecasters were on the money: the economy is significantly smaller than it would otherwise have been, trade has suffered, business investment and productivity growth have stalled, and families are on average thousands of pounds a year worse off'.

This is absolutely breathtaking Michael. It's dogmatic.

'So the answer to the question – “did Brexit damage the UK economy?” – is emphatically “No”.. There is no evidence that leaving the EU has been bad for the UK economy'.

I think that I'm actually relieved that you responded to only one part of my comment!

Jimmy Carr
246 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:34:43

Emily Maitliss said that 99 per cent of the economists they contacted, when she was working for the BBC, predicted that the economy would suffer if we left the EU. Not really a surprise as they're our biggest trading partner. This really isn't rocket science.

MK, sorry mate, but your post is badly misinformed, like almost everything else about this debate. I repeat my earlier comment, no-one knew what Brexit meant, that's why there was such difficulty in implementing it. Nothing to do with Remainers. Advice, stop reading the Daily Mail.

Kevin Molloy
247 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:34:48

I think that's. a pretty crass argument to level at most of your countrymen 'Paul. Brexit cos everyone here is a racist. Are you aware of the huge demographic changes that have been underway in the last ten years? have you seen Dublin recently? Are you saying you are perfectly fine with Liverpool turning into London within a generation, and that people who may object are just being racist?

Jimmy Carr
248 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:39:30

Kevin (247) immigration went through the roof post-Brexit. So if it was meant to sort that problem, it certainly didn't, it made things worse, if that's your point of view.

Kevin Molloy
249 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:41:42

the people were betrayed Jimmy. Johnson sold them out, as did Sunak.

Jimmy Carr
250 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:48:18

This is my point Kevin. Brexit was a blank cheque on which you could write any number.

Paul Griffiths
251 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:52:59

Daer God Kevin Molloy, you do this all the time. But you hardly ever respond when pressed.

First of all, syntax and punctuation please. What does this actually mean?

'I think that's. a pretty crass argument to level at most of your countrymen 'Paul. Brexit cos everyone here is a racist'.

Could you put this into erm English for me and others. It looks like you are saying that 'everyone here is a racist'.

Show me anywhere in anything that I have said that might make anyone think that I believe that someone 'who may object [I assume to my opinions] are just being racist?'.

So please respond to this and don't put words or thoughts in my mouth or mind that I never said or put together.

And, while we are at it, have the openness of debate to respond to this too.

What actually is my 'crass argument' in which - if I am able to follow your jumbled spiel - I apparently believe 'that everyone is a racist'?

'. ... have you seen Dublin recently? Are you saying you are perfectly fine with Liverpool turning into London within a generation'.

How was your BREXIT Kevin? Looked like it really worked out well for you and yours. The Leave gang really led their 'it's the immigrants innit' supporters up the little English garden path with their sham promises, didn't they.

I well remember Boris saying vote for BREXIT and I promise that Liverpool will turn into London 'within a generation'.

Paul Griffiths
252 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:57:05

Jimmy (246), it seems to me that the only people who Michael blames for the negative impacts of BREXIT on the economy and immigration are obstructive Remainers at Westminster.

Oh hang on: (Mr. Molloy) 'the people were betrayed, Jimmy. Johnson sold them out, as did Sunak'. I do a little jig when I read stuff like this.

Kevin Molloy
253 Posted 26/06/2026 at 23:58:07

'a much larger part was we don't want 'them' here. I can never forget that interview with the bigot from Pompey..'
it's pretty clear you're looking down on the motives of the people who decided Brexit, Paul, and that you conjecture it was for reasons of xenophobia.

Paul Griffiths
254 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:10:56

Erm Kevin M, nice try but no. Do better.

'. a much larger part was we don't want 'them' here'. How is that in any shape or form racist?

A large element in 'the motives' of many people 'who decided Brexit' and are now in worse shape ten years later was, I'm sorry, a misplaced 'Xenophobia' and we don't want 'them' here. How is pointing this out racist?

How is 'looking down on the motives of the people who decided Brexit' in any way, shape, or form 'racist' Kevin, if indeed I do 'look down' on them?

Answers on a postcard please from one of those jolly old seaside resorts that BREXIT has helped to destroy.

Kevin Molloy
255 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:16:55

Your first question doesn't need an answer Paul, it answers itself. We don't want 'them' here is of course xenophobic, and probably racist.

I didn't say you were a racist, I said you were levelling this charge at your fellow countrymen. You believe the deciding factor was the great unwashed not wanting too many of 'them' here.

Britain is in fact one of the least racist countries in the world, and with a people who just a few generations ago stood alone against real nazis. If they decide they want to set limits on immigration, rather than say admit a million a year, then that is something they are perfectly entitled to do without being sneered at.

Don Alexander
256 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:25:12

The Brexit vote debacle was was won by winning the votes of openly racist voters, and not by any means do I condemn other Brexit voters as racist, but racists were the deciding factor in Brexit.

Those who still advocate that leaving the EU has rendered the UK more prosperous, independent, or stronger are, frankly, delusional.

Period.

Paul Griffiths
257 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:26:13

Another F I'm afraid Kevin. You just love a little ropey inference don't you.

'Your first question doesn't need an answer Paul, it answers itself. We don't want 'them' here is of course xenophobic, and probably racist'.

I didn't go as far as you do Kevin to call them racist like you do but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I do agree with you that 'We don't want 'them' here is of course xenophobic'.

Tell me, where exactly do I 'level the charge' of racism at - your term - 'the great unwashed. Show me exactly where I do this.

'Britain is in fact one of the least racist countries in the world. '

On what do you base this Kevin? Is there a league table or some sort of UN research survey?

What are the criteria that you bring to the table to define a 'racist' country?

What is the nature of your actual evidence for making this claim?

By the way, I've already made a note of what's coming next.

Dale Self
258 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:29:09

Bojo was explicit about the restoration of free movement within the 'white commonwealth'(Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Britain). If that is too hard a search, try Amber Rudd's official statements, as migration was in the Home Secretary's portfolio. That stuff goes back to Enoch Powell in the 1960s.

Johnson basically wanted to run a large-scale migration system without explicit discrimination while ensuring "people like us" get in. The demographics in each of the countries above leads to the discomforting conclusion that there was an inherent contradiction in wanting free movement while restricting immigration.

Bojo hit the wall, he didn't sell-out the people. It was an unobtainable pursuit and the racism is obvious and well documented, in their words.

Dale Self
259 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:33:33

And the Telegraph citing some numbers showing trade to be at record levels does nothing. You need the counterfactual of where trade would be without the disruption to make any convincing case of non-effect. It is kind of like not adjusting for inflation when comparing outputs over a long time frame.

Kevin Molloy
260 Posted 26/06/2026 at 00:35:22

Paul, you say they voted for Brexit cos 'they don't want 'them' here. It' is clear from this that you consider their motives xenophobic and probably racist.

Ask ChatGPT whether Britain is considered one of the least racist countries? It's all there.

Kevin Molloy
261 Posted 27/06/2026 at 01:09:11

I probably was a little over critical Paul, I'm afraid it's very hot here, that's my excuse.

Dale Self
262 Posted 27/06/2026 at 01:12:37

I was waiting for you to apologize for using ChatGPT as an input to an argument postion.

Dale Self
263 Posted 27/06/2026 at 01:16:59

Alright, it isn't hot here but the overhyped AI enshittification really gets on my tits these days.

Everyone has a valid perspective. I sometimes get pissy with some approaches to reason. Sorry, Kevin.

Kevin Molloy
264 Posted 27/06/2026 at 01:36:18

Dale yes fair enough!

Paul Griffiths
265 Posted 27/06/2026 at 02:32:16

There were most certainly racists among them Kevin. And there were most certainly xenophobes among them too. What proportions I don't know.

No worries Kevin. It's good to question things. And, of course, only just over 4% of all UK homes have air conditioning. Buckingham Palace does not have AC. Downing Street does. I never knew or could never guess that No. 10 has over 100 rooms.

Dale Self
266 Posted 27/06/2026 at 02:45:52

May I offer a quick thought experiment?

Would Liz Truss have been able to table her budget, which caused UK bonds to trade like those of third-world nations, under the EU? That seemed to be a turning point, of no return.

Paul Griffiths
267 Posted 27/06/2026 at 03:41:26

Michael should set up a ToffeeWeb Poll: 'Has the UK economy suffered as a direct result of BREXIT?'

Steve Brown
268 Posted 27/06/2026 at 06:25:07

Paul mate, good idea.

Someone would have to be economically illiterate to claim that the UK economy did not suffer. Even the US Treasury has an estimated a decline in our GDP as a result over the last decade.

Imagine voting to make yourself poorer as a country for a generation, with nil gains to offset it?

Paul Griffiths
269 Posted 27/06/2026 at 07:37:32

And Steve, voting to get rid of 'them' immigrants so that more of them could 'pour' into your area, while you have less money in your pocket. That's called the chickens coming home to roost.

They voted for it hoodwinked by lies from Leave - MK did not comment on my lies comment - and their own Little England preferences.

Tony Abrahams
270 Posted 27/06/2026 at 08:15:10

Liverpool voted to remain, and when I speak to most people in Liverpool, they are all concerned by the current immigration situation, Paul.

This doesn't really equate to the chickens coming home to roost, simply because if one of the main reasons for people voting to leave was because they wanted them immigrants gone, this wasn't the case in our city.

Paul Griffiths
271 Posted 27/06/2026 at 08:24:39

Tony, Liverpool is one city in the UK.

Your post makes no sense. Clearly I was speaking about places that voted to leave.

Tony Abrahams
272 Posted 27/06/2026 at 12:12:23

And I'm clearly speaking about places that voted to remain, Paul.

You voted to remain so you won't be bothered about the current uncontrolled immigration that is causing a lot of unrest, unlike the people who voted to leave purely on the basis of immigration, and are now seeing the chickens come home to roost.

I voted to remain and I'm now concerned about the current level of immigration, so chickens coming home to roost doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me, Paul.

Chris Williams
273 Posted 27/06/2026 at 13:00:29

Hi Tony,

Yes, immigration was identified as the single biggest issue amongst Leave voters, after the referendum.

The levels of immigration have plummeted over the last 3 years or so, although I'm not sure that's widely acknowledged or known. So much so that we might be looking at negative net immigration later this year -- more people leaving than arriving.

Not necessarily a good thing when a country has a shrinking birth rate, and a large and growing population over working age, together with over 1 million people of working age not “economically active” for whatever reason.

Even arrivals on small boats are 40% down so far.

Liverpool voted to Remain, like lots of cities, with the towns left behind by deindustrialisation, and government inaction, voting overwhelmingly to Leave. And now where Farage gets his votes.

Liverpool voted to stay out back in the 70s, we were pointing the wrong way, but Southampton did okay.

Kevin Molloy
274 Posted 27/06/2026 at 13:14:50

In the last 3 years, 3 million people have come to live here, Chris. And before that, we had Johnson.

Chris Williams
275 Posted 27/06/2026 at 14:13:52

Hi Kevin

Just to clarify, I’m referring to net migration. (I called it net immigration) The figures have been relatively high for a while, but the trend is now down:-

2022 891K
2023 848K
2024 331K
2025 171K

The 2025 figure comprises 813K immigrants, and 642K emigrants, who are mainly people who have arrived in previous years, and now have left. They’ve come to the end of their University course, or their work contract, or have just decided to go home.

This is likely to.continue, as controls and rules have been tightened up further.

There may be others who have been deported but I’m not sure.

So a few of your 3million immigrants may well have gone home mate. Maybe a few more this year too.

More widely, you have a situation where climate change is causing floods, fires, famines. These cause shortages which can and do lead to wars. This isn’t going to disappear, and will likely lead to increases in asylum seekers.

Trying to stop this is like behaving like King Canute. It ain’t going away, and we won’t be able to do anything on our own.

Best we learn how to deal with it together.

Raymond Fox
276 Posted 27/06/2026 at 14:17:04

I remember as a kid when the UK population in 1950 was 50M... it's now 70M that's some increase.

I don't care what race they are, white, pink, black, orange, purple -- you name it, it's numbers and the quality of life I'm concerned about.

I suppose if you like crowds, waiting on congested roads and motorways etc, ever expanding villages, towns and cites, carry on let everyone in.

It won't affect me, I won't be here, but it will affect our offspring.

Darren Hind
277 Posted 27/06/2026 at 14:30:45

Racisim had fuck all to do with Brexit. To suggest decent ordinary people would give a flying fuck what colour their neighbour is, or that they were somehow hoodwinked by cranks like Farage, is for the birds.

This was all about greed. Greedy politicians convinced a greedy population that somebody is taking a slice of their pie. The UK did not vote to "Keep themout". It voted to get itself the fuck out.
"We're paying too much" "We're putting in more than we get out"..."They (the rest of Europe) are having our kecks down.".

Given the destabilsing wars which have affected every economy (not to mention a worldwide pandemic), I find it amazing that anybody could argue with any degree of certainty as to whether or not Brexit had a positive or adverse effect on the UK economy.

Brexit was never really about immigration. They are two separate issues which are conveniently squashed in under the same umbrella.

Ron Sear
278 Posted 27/06/2026 at 14:37:29

Raymond, I'm not so sure about orange people, at least one of them is a bit disturbing and sets a bad example.

Kevin Molloy
279 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:01:46

If you're worried about your culture vanishing, Chris, then net migration is a double whammy. Not only are loads coming in, but all the (probably young) are leaving. That makes it worse, not better.

Our dear leaders want you to think it's hopeless or inevitable, this influx. It's one of the main points of globalist institutions like the EU. Even if you identify the problem, you've ceded your sovereignty, or you're committed to some random treaty 30 years ago that snuck in some wording preventing you from saying 'this much, but no more'.

What do you think Britain would have done with this situation 100 years ago? It would have been a bayonet up the bottom on Monday morning, and by Friday the channel would have been as calm as a mill pond.

We are pretending that we are too civilised now to be able to act. But it's all a nonsense. When these powers want to get things done, even some pretty unpleasant shit, they find a way. They don't want to sort this out. That much is surely obvious by now.

Dale Self
280 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:08:51

Let's be clear, one does not need to attribute racism to the voters who supported Leave. It is the policy itself which is racist.

Go back and read the statements of Johnson and his staff. Some voters may have supported out of economic strain but many were at least aware of Johnson's intent.

Kevin Molloy
281 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:12:48

Leaving the EU is racist in and of itself, Dale?

Steady on, old bean.

Steve Brown
282 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:20:02

Key findings from international and British institutions on the GDP impact include:

Bank of England: Analyzes show Brexit has cost the UK approximately 6% of its potential GDP over the past decade.

National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER): Estimates that by 2025, the withdrawal process had reduced UK GDP by between 6% and 8%, which is larger than initial short-term forecasts.

Goldman Sachs: Estimates that Brexit has permanently reduced UK economic growth by around 5% compared to peer economies, driven by weaker corporate spending and reduced trade intensity.

Historical Forecasts: In the lead-up to the 2016 referendum, the UK Treasury published historical analyses warning that leaving the EU under a negotiated agreement could cost up to 6.2% of GDP over 15 years, an estimate that aligns closely with current real-world observations.

Dale Self
283 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:26:23

Kevin, did you just pop that one off after reading Johnson's Brexit sales job?

I stated the migration policy itself was racist. Look at the transcripts and note the language, wink, wink.

Really man, you could have used ChatGPT here.

Should I hang out while you try to guide the almighty statistical pattern-matcher to the source?

The proposal had enough for any distressed household to rationalize away the undertones. It also had enough implicit language to motivate those less inclined to be bothered by such undertones.

Steve Brown
284 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:39:09

Brexit was an economic decision, based on the assumption that the country would be better off outside the EU.

I always understood the “leave” argument - we entered a trading bloc and ended up in a political federation. But the argument that the UK economy would fare better outside the EU was evidently bullshit in 2016.

The imposition of trade barriers with our biggest trading partner has been a disaster. Compared to 2019, 2025 UK exports to the EU were 14% down. And they've been getting worse. Last year, 2025, was the worst year for UK goods export volumes to the EU this century, apart from one year in the depths of the financial crisis.

The pound is below its pre-EU referendum level, the economy is significantly smaller than it would otherwise have been, trade has suffered, business investment and productivity growth have stalled, and families are on average thousands of pounds a year worse off.

Brexit wasn’t about immigration.

That is a more recent phenomenon where those who voted leave and did not reap the promised rewards are now blaming immigrants for their own economic stupidity.

And that anti-immigrant stance is premised on an overt level of racism encouraged by the likes of Farage and Lowe - the same people who sold Brexit.

So how about this country taking some fucking responsibility for its own mistakes? And learning from its mistakes?

Dale Self
285 Posted 27/06/2026 at 15:51:32

I beg to differ. Within Brexit, changing the profile of migration to England was a key component. They were indeed primarily addressing economic decline.

It just happens that scapegoating the immigrants was not an adequate explanation nor solution to the problem.

Paul Griffiths
286 Posted 27/06/2026 at 21:51:09

Tony - "So chickens coming home to roost doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me,
Paul."

I'll try one more time.

My chickens comment was - as I have already said - aimed at people/areas voting to leave who now are experiencing the highest levels of immigration after 2016. Chickens/leavers, roost/immigration levels, chickens/roost, leavers/immigration levels.

I don't give a shit about Liverpool in this formulation. It's irrelevant.

Alan McGuffog
287 Posted 27/06/2026 at 21:58:29

I don't know how much of an issue immigration was. I voted to remain, believing our entry in (1973?) into the EEC was a no brainer. Lots of benefits.

I was very dubious about the advance into a United States of Europe however, so I voted to remain but with some concerns.

Paul Griffiths
288 Posted 27/06/2026 at 22:01:21

Brexit might arguably not be about immigration, but that is not how a lot of voters understood it because it was pitched in that way by Farage and company. Exit interviews -- and 10 years of research -- show that 'them' immigrants were the principal concerns for many who voted leave and there were most certainly some racists in their ranks.

Do I believe that some of the good people of the UK care about the skin colour of their neighbours? Absolutely I do. Unfortunately I have a best mate who is that way inclined.

Jack Smethurst may be dead, but there are still plenty of Eddie Booths in this 'sceptered isle'.

Tony Abrahams
290 Posted 27/06/2026 at 22:58:32

To learn from our mistakes then I think the country should have another General Election, rather than appointing another unelected Prime Minister.

When Boris Johnson, was the UK Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, I remember a story about how he was negotiating with his Italian counterpart, telling him that once we leave the EU, then we wouldn’t be buying as much Prosecco.

Of course you won’t replied the Italian, but I’m sure we can put up with losing one customer but it won’t be as easy for yourselves because you’re suddenly going to be selling a lot less fish & chips, to 27 countries.

Not long after this, Johnson, became our Prome Minister, which clearly showed that the British People had lost their fucking marbles!

Paul, I knew who the quote was aimed at so looking for something that is irrelevant I personally wouldn’t look past your explanation for your formulation.

Dale Self
291 Posted 28/06/2026 at 13:55:00

As it happens, the FT is doing a 10 year review of Brexit.

Here is an economic scorecard:
https://www.nber.org/digest/202602/measuring-brexits-economic-toll-united-kingdom

That is NBER, not some hack with a graph or two.

Paul Griffiths
292 Posted 29/06/2026 at 01:08:15

Well Dale, I think that we have established beyond any reasonable doubt that BREXIT has damaged the UK economy. No wonder that a majority of UK folk in polling data would now prefer to be in with the EU. AB was a solid remainer who warned again and again about the economic and social dangers of leaving.

Well, he was proved right and let's see what happens, although a closer working relationship with the EU seems quite likely and necessary.

Jeff Spiers
293 Posted 29/06/2026 at 18:44:46

Ron, good evening. Ref. my post 113. A yay or nay would suffice.