There are a number of reasons for this, I totally accept that what?s happening on the pitch does largely affect the atmosphere but I don?t believe that?s the only thing that affects the atmosphere.
At the moment, the biggest problem is that there isn?t any designated area reserved for those who wish to chant. This means that you have a lot of people who have no interest in creating an atmosphere in area?s that are considered unofficial singing areas. For example, when people start a song nowadays, half the people around will just sit there staring at those singing. This obviously discourages fans from even bothering to try and create an atmosphere.
The only game of the season that has any sort of atmosphere is the derby because that?s the only game where large amounts of supporters stand. I?ve been told by stewards and other people within the club the problem is the location of where the singers are, that is the problem. The centre of Lower Gwladys Street, near the back, is quite a good view and quite popular, so the club will always being unwilling to set up a singing/standing area there. I believe that fans have to accept this and try and find an area which is unpopular but where a decent atmosphere can be created.
I believe I?ve found the perfect area of the ground where a singing/standing area could be formed. I believe GS5 in Upper Gwladys Street in an excellent place for supporters who wish to create an atmosphere to be located. This area is largely empty for the majority of games; the majority of empty seats are near the back. This is perfect for supporters who wish to stand without causing, other supporters to stand.
The acoustics are excellent in this area; it means that the atmosphere can spread down to the lower tier and along the Bullens Road side of the ground. I believe this could be a great solution in terms of the atmosphere. I?d be grateful for some feedback, (hopefully not too negative!) about this idea. If other supporters agree, I'll speak to a few people and see if we can get this area sorted for next season.
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1 Posted 27/04/2011 at 17:28:17
If we have a designated chanting area we are sure to get some great new songs- 'Just Can't get Enough' is fun- but it belongs to Celtic really.
2 Posted 27/04/2011 at 17:38:44
3 Posted 27/04/2011 at 18:35:51
It is this sort of innocent, but essentially damning remark that highlights what's happening to this club ? it's turning into shite.
4 Posted 27/04/2011 at 19:05:15
There's nothing more depressing than sitting in the Park End listening to away fans take this piss out of us for not singing.
We are the People's Club, so what about the club sponsoring a band for match days? Once again maybe providing free tickets.
And we should have more "flags days" when fans can bring along banners etc. I think the club should pay for some of these as well.
I personally think the club should really pull their finger out as far as all of this is concerned. A bit more investment (money) in the atmosphere would make all the difference, and the game going experience much more enjoyable. And let's face it with Moyes/Kenwright in charge the entertainment on the pitch isn't going to improve is it.
5 Posted 27/04/2011 at 19:26:32
I recognise it's quid pro quo, but we need to motivate the players better, rather than settling in as though we're at the opera.
Make the Blue Boys feel like they're ten feet tall, and frighten the pants of the opposition. As it stands, Goodison is only a bearpit 3 or 4 times per season. That simply isn't good enough support.
6 Posted 27/04/2011 at 19:50:37
I take collective pride in Everton being different: we have 2 or 3 songs, a common identity and do not have a desire or wish to be something that we are not. I can quite happily live with leaving Liverpool et al to create the next pathetic ditty; the idea of a 'flag-day', 'singing-zone' or any other manufactured attempt to create atmopshere is quite frankly absurd.
When the player's turn it on, an incident happens, or the need for collective voice is required, Goodison rocks; any attempt to change the status quo in my opinion is not the Everton Way. Leave that to the teds, wooly backs and bellends across the Park ? they do a cracking cringe-worthy job!
7 Posted 27/04/2011 at 20:31:48
Sponsor a fucking band?? Any fucking band sparks up by me and they'll end up with a trombone stuffed right up their fucking arse.
Un-fucking believable!!! A fucking band!
Give me fucking strength.
8 Posted 27/04/2011 at 20:37:56
It shouldn't be discounted cos people will buy the tickets for the wrong reasons and you will dilute the singers.
Therefore, if you don't need the club's involvement (I agree that this would make it seem contrived anyway), why not try to build a groundswell of fans through this and other forums?
9 Posted 27/04/2011 at 20:42:59
It has been a number of years since I've been in the Upper Gwladys, though, so I am not familiar with the block you mention and I can't make too much of a comment on it's suitability.
What I would say though is that, just say that you get a dozen people going to a trial, a realistic number, then if in the Lower Gwladys St this dozen would 'advertise' their group to the other like-minded fans in the Gwladys St, so, in the second half, you'd get another half-a-dozen going over to them and joining in, with a few more booking themselves in for the next one.
If this dozen were in the Upper Gwladys St, would the fans in there be the type of fan who would go over and join in?
10 Posted 27/04/2011 at 21:00:38
We are not Liverpool or Utd fans who act like circus clowns in a pathetic attempt to show how much they think they love the club. Those two lots of halfwitt fans even have designated songwriters. God give me strength.
11 Posted 27/04/2011 at 21:26:24
12 Posted 27/04/2011 at 21:16:59
Goodison Park was similar to Millwall during the late 70s and early 80s, and being honest it was our home results that kept EFC in Division 1.
You can rest assured that GP was like a hell hole for visiting teams, and their fans. The away support parked up in the Park End, usually only the right side but they had the lot if they could fill it.
We sang, letting them know that we fucking hated them and that their team was about to take a battering... thing was, GP is a tight ground and the opposing players could also hear what we were singing as well. Being honest, Gareth, the game usually just filtered in amongst the mayhem going on around the Park End and opposing standing areas.
Unfortunately all things change and GP is a sad place at times. It makes me laugh when I hear about 300 away fans out singing and generally taking the piss out of GP. Yep, times have certainly changed.
A singing section at GP, fuck me, well that will just continue the general feeling of shite and dismay for many a fan who can't take much more of the ongoing bollocks.
13 Posted 27/04/2011 at 21:46:30
The best atmosphere for me is when GP is like an angry bear pit and it must be fairly hostile for the opposition. There are some great memories of Goodison being like that. I don't get all misty eyed claiming that it has always been one big sing-song because, quite frankly, it never has since I've been going.
The aways are always different but that's because the whole dynamic is different as it is more an us v them type situation with us being in the minority.
Overall though, what Peter Laing (6) says I agree with 100% and wouldn't want it any other way.
14 Posted 27/04/2011 at 22:22:04
15 Posted 27/04/2011 at 22:26:40
Oh and Peter Laing, Everton have always had singing areas, ie, an area in the ground where fans went and sing. ie back of the Gwladys St, Enclosure, Park End. Our history shows that we've always had fans who like to sing. This has been pushed away with no thanks to Sky's sitting down culture and reserved seating. The silence and no fans singing was never the Everton Way.
We're not some inbred club with one type of fan you know where we all act the same. We've always been a cultured club with different types of fans. In that sense, there is no such thing as an Everton Way, and you can fuck off if you want there to be an Everton Way because that would mean we should all act contrived.
16 Posted 27/04/2011 at 21:50:41
It drives me crazy when I hear people say things like, the atmosphere's rubbish against the lesser teams cos we expect to beat them and get annoyed if we don't play well. That is a recipe for disaster. We don't have a God given right to win any game and getting on the players' backs seems to me to make them all the more nervous.
Chris, I'd say go for it; we'll never get anywhere if we don't try. If this does get going, that's where I'll be looking to get my ticket. So, if there is enough support and you decide to do something about it, keep us informed. Then the 'real' Everton fans can just join in the singing when they've been given something for them to get excited about, and hopefully I won't have to listen to as much moaning when I go the match.
17 Posted 27/04/2011 at 22:53:57
18 Posted 27/04/2011 at 22:52:37
Gareth Humphreys, the back middle of the Gwladys had many great sing-songs through when you started going, up til about 95-96. You don't get an angry atmosphere every game, you never will. So what's wrong with fans trying to get behind the team vocally when everyone else is quiet?
19 Posted 28/04/2011 at 00:56:38
We have successfully negotiated with the club about letting us stand up during games, sing during games and create an atmosphere.
I know our efforts here in Australia are by far minimal compared to the likes of those in larger European clubs and leagues with history dating back more then 6 years! However, I do fully agree that the GP atmosphere would be enhanced by creating a standing-only section behind the goals in the Gwladys Street end. Those who don't want to stand wouldn't go there and, generally speaking, those who want to stand will want to sing and chant.
I am looking forward to getting myself over in the 2010-11 season for some fun! I for one would be overjoyed to stand and sing at the place I consider to be a strong point in my life!!
20 Posted 28/04/2011 at 06:50:00
It's simple: if the team performs, so will the fans... and that goes to any club you wish to name. People harp on about Stoke etc, but they are new to the big league still, that will soon change as their poxy away travel has proven everywhere this season compared to last.
It's the same with flag day too: many blues slaughter them lot across the park for those big daft banners with stupid sayings on; if we were to do it, you have to do it better, or you will end up looking like a London street party will look like tomorrow ? and that will just add more fun for our lovable neighbours.
21 Posted 28/04/2011 at 07:55:23
You couldn't have been going the match in the early 60s, when there was a military band playing regularly pre-match.
This gives me the chance to impress with the line, "Oh, yes, I used to sing with a band, you know."
22 Posted 28/04/2011 at 07:54:13
23 Posted 28/04/2011 at 08:06:45
It's fans like you that really do make Goodison Park a truly boring ground.
I really don't see the point of going to the game and sitting there in silence. In the days were you can watch any game on TV, I don't know why fans like you don't just stay at home home and get a better view of the game there.
Why do some Everton fans have this obsession with calling anyone who wants to have a laugh at the match a 'kopite' or 'wooly back'???
24 Posted 28/04/2011 at 08:13:04
I hate the orchestrated singing and banner waving across the Park and elsewhere. If anyone waved a flag in front of me at GP, it would get shoved where the sun don't shine.
I laugh at teams who regularly only half fill their grounds (Blackburn, Sunderland) playing music over the tannoy when they score.
I also think the pre-match bollocks we get at GP, delivered at ear-splitting volume, takes all the life out of any collective desire to sing and shout; fans stay buried under the stands until the teams come out. In the days of standing you had to get in early to get a good spec. I'm not advocating a return to standing, but I do think that this is when the atmosphere started to get much quieter.
Having said that there is a core of Blues supporters who sing their hearts out brilliantly, usually about 4,000 of them. The ones who go the away matches.
25 Posted 28/04/2011 at 08:19:58
I guess, in years gone by, it's the cheap(er) seats/terraces where some of the more boisterous fans have congregated and it's the spontaneity of these gatherings and the witty responses to impromptu goings on, on the pitch, that really sparked the raw atmosphere. Can such a formal arrangement elicit similar emotion? Probably not.
26 Posted 28/04/2011 at 07:59:40
Before the game, that grinning 'patriotic' oul' prick that you used to see at England games, walked right around the ground, raising and lowering Victory Vee symbols (no idea, don't ask).
He had a red one in one hand and a blue one in the other.
As he raised the red one, the Saints fans cheered.
When he raised the blue one - "booooooo" etc.
When he came down to our end, the response from Everton supporters (when he raised EITHER V) made my day and I remember thinking THIS is Everton.
That response was... nothing. He was ignored, completely.
Basically they said 'we're not playing'.
The old bloke was confused and doubled his efforts but all he got was hard stares. His expression became one of confusion and I watched him as he walked off, shrugging and saying (I'm guessing) "Well I don't know what else to do, it was just a bit of fun".
If only he'd known Everton away in the mid 80s didn't really do 'fun' (just winning).
The 'Everton Way' imo is not flags, bands, banners or manufactured self-conscious 'support' (that has always been the domain of the other shower).
Give me noise that's generated ONLY by what goes on on the pitch and I'll live with the long quiet periods in between.
(nb: Yes, I AM old and miserable...)
27 Posted 28/04/2011 at 09:03:37
Couldn't think of a worse place. Sound will be muffled be the roof, and you can't see shit so, to be telling people who want to sing to sit there, is tantamount to telling people to sing at home to the radio.
28 Posted 28/04/2011 at 09:07:00
But I agree with every "fucking" one of them.
29 Posted 28/04/2011 at 09:20:26
That is not manufacturing support. It is merely removing some of the barriers that have been stifling our support. It is not a flag fest or band day we're after. It is about like-minded fans congregating.
30 Posted 28/04/2011 at 09:43:32
Are you really out of touch with Evertonians today that you think that fans who want to get behind the team vocally will be some kind of dickhead who wants to play along with jesters?
So you only want noise from fans that's only been generated on the pitch? Many a time the singing in the Street End would start an hour before kick-off till about 20 mins at worst, so are you saying our support back then was manufactured?
If anything our support now is self conscious and manufactured and very contrived. Once you believe there's a set way of acting at a match that is when that behaviour becomes contrived and a parody. Sitting there purposely being self-consciously quiet aka 'moody' as that is how you're meant to act as an Evertonian is contrived to fuck.
31 Posted 28/04/2011 at 10:04:36
32 Posted 28/04/2011 at 10:50:49
Going by e.ticketing then. The seats 245-250 and the last 5 rows, 0-S, gives an area of 29 seats.
To start with this could be the aim to try and fill in a one-off trialled match...
33 Posted 28/04/2011 at 11:17:31
Culture and movement against the tide and expression should be encouraged so I'd love to see this happen.
34 Posted 28/04/2011 at 12:28:05
Organising people who want to chant into one area isn?t a bad idea. That area used to be the Lower Gwladys but, if it moves, so be it. Fans organising amongst themselves where to go isn?t comparable with Chelsea handing out official flags to wave at the game. The fans are trying to create atmosphere off their own backs.
The band idea is a giant NO from me. The only idea worse would be to play ?I feel good? through the stadium speakers after we score.
35 Posted 28/04/2011 at 12:23:03
For various complex reasons, the atmosphere was always incredibly hostile towards England and I feared for his safety. The response was exactly the same as you described. He might as well have been invisible. Sometimes a crowd can collectively come up with exactly the right reaction. I think when we win and play exciting football Goodison will rock again.
36 Posted 28/04/2011 at 12:39:16
You pay your money ? it takes all sorts. I sit more or less where the I used to stand, 2nd barrier in Gwladys Street. I've seen and have heard it all ? "Bless `em All", Eee-Aye, We Got Alan Ball", "We shall Not Be moved", "When You're Smiling" etc.
In the old black and white days, the crowd were always up for it because so were the players; 66-70 was pure gold ? didn't matter who we were playing, you could guarantee Everton (and the crowd) would entertain.
Totally agree with Steve @24 ? cringeworthy "Live from Goodison Park": I fuckin know, I'm here you daft prick; "Here's how it's shaping up". Jesus wept...
37 Posted 28/04/2011 at 12:54:37
Imagine in the 66-70 era everytime you went to have a bit of a sing or shout a bit you got a tap from the bloke behind you to stop it. You'd move wouldn't you? That is what these lads are trying to do.
38 Posted 28/04/2011 at 11:13:25
I think it's a nice idea and a good post; however, any bands and it'll be a fucking joke.
Next we'll have Eiffel 64 playing "I'm Blue" every time we score... oh hang on a minute...
39 Posted 28/04/2011 at 12:57:24
At the end of the day, everyone should be able to sit where they want without being grouped and categorised. All that does is break the support up into different 'types' of fans and will do nothing to improve the atmosphere and unity in the ground between fans. At Wembley I was amazed at the almost family like atmosphere between supporters and it made for an absolute cauldron.
Also, Fiorentina was a recent game which blew Anfield Champions League nights out of the water and I was sat down for most of the game which suggests maybe our ground was such a 'bear pit' because we simply had more to play for.
Personally, the only way I can see the atmosphere of old returning is through terracing the lower gwladys. That way there's virtually no segregation and pointing out differences between supporters and those who don't wish to stand there should be offered seats elsewhere in the ground for a cheaper price.
I know for a fact that the atmosphere would be twice as good in the whole ground in this case because there's easily 6 or 7+ thousand capacity in that stand and with a higher concentration of more vocal supporters, it could make an absolute racket for a big game that would spread to the rest of the ground.
40 Posted 28/04/2011 at 13:42:48
41 Posted 28/04/2011 at 13:26:06
I also agree that it's sad we have to have an official area of the groud but thats down to seating. In the 70s and 80s you could chose where you stood so there wasn't any need to a designated area of the ground. But with reserved seating I believe you need to organise things. It would be great if everybody joined in but that's only a dream.
It's ridiculous to compare us to Liverpool in terms of atmosphere, nobody has suggested that flags should be brought into the ground. I personally don't have a problem with people waving flags ? look at some of the games in the 80s, the giant blue banners and the huge Irish tricolors ? they certainly were impressive. As long as the flags aren't red or the typical St George flag with the name of a pub, I personally couldn't care if fans want to bring flags or banners.
42 Posted 28/04/2011 at 13:21:36
The idea of a dedicated 'singing area' COULD be a good one.
I'm not so much thinking of atmosphere, but at least that way there'd be more chance of being with your own ilk.
At one end, David S Shaw and his Dixieland showband Jesters, at the other, me and the moody starers.
They could spend the game blowing trombones and saying "Look at us, Sky! The Everton version of Geordies!", we could spend the game biting our nails, sending them moody death glares and muttering 'knob-heads'.
Everyone's a winner! (um... except Everton who drew 0-0 with Wolves... probably).
43 Posted 28/04/2011 at 14:21:17
I'm always at a loss though as to the stereotype of when people talk about singing at Everton they throw in trumpets, jester hats, Geordies and Sky?
Everton have had fans singing in the Gwladys Street since long before even my time without any of those associating factors.
The unofficial standing areas across the country are always reactions against the Sky culture.
It was the sitting down to be entertained and cheer along to the the play that was what Sky and the Premier League wanted.
44 Posted 28/04/2011 at 14:47:12
When opposition fans try to annoy us we just laugh, clapping the "Sign on!" chants. Amongst our ranks we have Communists, Anarchists, Facists, Nazis, Zionists, BNP members, Irish Republicans, Orangemen and Loyalists. Everton supporters have always forgotten their differences to just support the team.
If everybody took the view that they'd only support the team in big games, I'm sure we'd be in even more trouble. Just look at Wigan on Saturday ? our supporters in the concourse will bounce away singing all sorts of songs, yet when we get into the ground there's hardly any singing.
45 Posted 28/04/2011 at 15:19:13
Spot on and fair-does. I've commented before on how I "grew up" with a bunch of mates in "our spec" behind the goal and how we're now spread out all over the stadium.
We're still mates and meet up before and after but can't take the camaraderie into the match, just a polite few words with the next seats is usually it. When all-seating came in, we never had the foresight and/or cash to book a block of seats.
How I wish...
46 Posted 28/04/2011 at 15:27:08
Jesus, did you used to introduce the acts on 'The Good Old Days'?
"The tingly, spingly, amusingly, predictably, stereotypically (audience 'Ooooooh!').
You know what, you're talking out of your freckle when you say things like...
"Everton have had fans singing in the Gwladys Street since long before even my time without any of those associating factors".
No they haven't, not in the way you are inferring (ie: the WHOLE of the St End singing THROUGHOUT games).
What we ACTUALLY had was a bunch of kids in the MIDDLE of the Street End singing (nb: mainly threatening 'acting hard songs' towards the away end - eg: 'you're gonna to get your fucking heads kicked in' etc).
The rest of the St End WOULD join in with singing, from time to time, BUT (important bit) DEPENDING ON WHAT WENT ON ON THE PITCH.
Oh and I can tell you this as a fact because in the early 70's, I WAS one of those kids in the middle.
But you know what, I/we got to 16 or 17, discovered the pub and suddenly just wanted to watch the game rather than be part of the show.
Those who stayed 'in the middle' into their 20's/30's we generally saw as 'divvies'.
(keep in mind that wearing a scarf was, at one time, considered about as 'uncool' as one could get).
The truth is, I'm not sweating over it and tend to I agree with Phil Bellis (36) who says 'you pay your money ? it takes all sorts'; however, if I'm/we're asked (nb: and in the OP we are!) that is what I think.
And by the way as much as I loathe and fucking detest Murdoch and Sky, they had NOTHING to do with grounds becoming all-seater.
47 Posted 28/04/2011 at 16:29:39
48 Posted 28/04/2011 at 16:29:46
You remind of the kids I see walking around the Strand in fake tan trying to look dead hard and saying bitchy comments to their mates because others do not have the right gear on and not being as cool as they think they are saying things like "Oh my god ? you just don't do that."
It is about what fans want to do. Fans ages are neither here nor there. All Evertonians should be equal and allowed to have the match day experience they want.
Yes, it was the middle of the Gwladys Street and not the whole of the Gwladys who done the majority of the singing. No-one is suggesting that the whole of the Gwladys St is to be turned into this. We're talking about like-minded fans wanting to get behind the team vocally congregating. A moving of the old middle to elsewhere in the ground if you like.
For the Sky comment, I take it Murdoch and Sky invented singing at the match did they which was your original attempt at a dig? Part of the rebranding of football by Sky and the Premier League was to have fans watching it passively like you'd watch a theatre performance. Clap here, cheer there.
For someone who is normally progressive and encourages fans to get off their arse and do things about the club they love, your views are very surprising and staid.
49 Posted 28/04/2011 at 17:09:55
Wonder if my arl fella's rattle is still in the loft; hmmm...
50 Posted 28/04/2011 at 17:21:40
51 Posted 28/04/2011 at 17:46:12
Personally, if I wanted to just sit there and watch a game in silence, I'd stay at home. I've got no problems with fans who sit in lets say quieter parts of the ground. But when you've got supporters in the centre of the Gwladys Street who just stare at fans who start songs, then you've got a problem.
Yes, some of the chants that are started are pathetic and tedious. Why whenever Everton fans want to do something slightly different are they immediately shot down by other supporters. "A protest against BK would be far too much like Liverpool and Newcastle fans". We need to try and get younger supporters in and I don't believe we'll get many if our ground is like a library. That's why there's more young lads at away games than there are at home.
52 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:16:28
From speaking to local fans, I've a feeling there may be quite a few ex-season ticket seats spare in August.
Have to brush up on the golden oldies: "We're the lads from Goodison that you all know
We're the boys from the banks of the Mersey..."
53 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:20:10
And in response to the article I'm all for it, grown up on my Dad's tales of some of the songs (He also is a wool too Peter) he'd sing in the Lower Glawdys as Everton demolished everyone put in front of them. In my opinion I think night matches are the key to a good atmosphere, but suppose we have to get in Europe for them. Still, a singing area's a great idea!
54 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:16:15
Nothing like ripping up some newspapers, stuffing them in a carrier bag and chucking it over the front of the Upper Gwladys!
Of course, this is probably now illegal and banned on Health and Safety grounds by some European directive ? the same Europeans who like to set flares off at matches, but would get upset if we do the same!
THE WORLD AINT WHAT IT USED TO BE.
55 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:22:41
Tip: - slow down, walk away, re-read, re-write, ciggy....THEN send.
I mention this as you're getting very 'ranty' (nb: over fuck all).
You did say ONE thing I agreed with, however.
"It's about what fans want to do".
Because I want to watch the match without some balloon blowing a fucking a trombone in my ear and trying to make it all about him, rather than what's happening on the pitch ? If I can do that, I don't really give a fuck who does what (or where).
And Jesus, what happened with you and 'the cool guys'?
Did some WSAG sellers laugh at your Bluekipper t-shirt?
"He thinks he's so cool" is what I used to say at 13 (out of sheer frustration) about older boys who had the temerity to... er... not have spots or to have 'had their hole' or be old enough to have a Honda 50.
As much as you try hammering me with the 'cool' angle, it's really starting to look like a defensive thing ? ie: 'anyone not prepared to act like a show-offy cunt is... um... trying to be cool!'.
Well fine, meet... The Fonz!
Atmosphere/noise/singing in grounds that is NOT created by what's happening on the pitch, is, imo, just showing off, SELF-conscious and posturing.
Not a crime by any means but... that's what it is (and personally, I'd think it odd if anyone over 15 would be interested).
One more thing, you say 'fan's ages are neither here nor there".
Now this IS wrong ? they ARE here and they ARE there (and if you're here, I'm definitely there!).
56 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:46:10
But now? I'm too bloody arl' and miserable to sing and where I sit in the Upper Gwladys most people fit into this category. Match going punters are, largely, a lot older than they were forty years ago. As a proportion of the make up of the ground, the crowd is older and less likely to want to warble.
But fair play to you, fella', keep hammering them out! But do you remember that toe-curling month or so in the Johnson years when we experimented with a Sheffield Wednesday type band? Blood still runs cold...
57 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:59:03
58 Posted 28/04/2011 at 18:48:46
You have a lot of hatred issues for fans who want to support Everton in their own way. If fans don't want to sing, that's up to them; for them to start insulting those who do, though... I will get defensive. There are probably hundreds of thousands of Evertonians who have enjoyed singing at the match. Are you saying they're all show-offs if they sing and we're not 2-0 up? People like to feel they're helping the team by giving their vocal support.
A lot of the associations you have used like they must be Geordies, they will bring a trombone etc are unsubstantiated and are out of touch sterotypes, perhaps you know that, because you're arguments are not against mine. They are against text and language. Why's that? You can't substantiate your arguments and relate them to the subject matter?
Why are Evertonians who like to sing balloons? Why must they be kids. Go on.
59 Posted 28/04/2011 at 19:50:49
I say give it a go; many of us blame DM and the clubs hierarchy for not being innovative, I see young lads on here ready to try something in support of the team ? putting their heads above the parapet. Get in there lads, I'll write songs if you like ? I quite fancy myself at that sort of thing.
Try this for Tim Cahill (to the tune of "The Runaway Train Came Over the Hill and She Blew")
The Wizard of Oz is Tim Cahill and he's blue
A spring-heeled jack, he'll score a goal for you
In green and gold or royal blue
He's Everton's boxing kangaroo
An' he's a true blue, blue.
He's a true blue.
The Wizard of Oz is Tim Cahill and he's blue
He comes from a land where they play a diggery-doo
But we don't care...
It's legal there....
So why do they hide it under the stair?
He's a true blue, blue
He's a true blue.
Repeat until the lager makes you puke.
The frightening thing is I've got a million of these lads.
60 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:07:12
Yes, I remember being a teenager 'in the middle'. For a period it was actually 'harder' to go in the Park End, before it was all given over to away fans. Do you remember "Street End" ? "Park End" ? "Street End" ? "Park End" ? "Street End.... Street End... Street End....". Then off to The Salutation after the game for a well-earned under age pint.
61 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:36:58
62 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:22:45
Everton are different to these and so are other seasoned Premier league clubs and it shows when you see dickheads from Wolves and WBA turn up in their chav gear, wanting to take every Weatherspoons in the league and singing their knobhead songs, thinking they are big time charlies. The next season, these and Stoke are mustering 800 in the away end similar to how they all behaved in the 80s and we won't change either.
63 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:41:22
Fact (sigh!) I didn't say 'Everton fans who like to sing are balloons' ? I made it CLEAR I had NO problem with anyone singing IF it was a response to what was going on on the pitch.
Clear enough for you or do I have to keep repeating it?
As for anything else you asked (nb: the bits I could understand), you will I'm afraid just have to accept that they are they opinions of someone who thinks in a VERY different way to you.
End of story.
Brian, I do indeed remember the 'Street End, Park End' stuff (along with 'Celtic-Rangers!') and the bravery of those (us) in the St End urging those in The Park End (and later the Enclosure) to 'get into them!'
64 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:41:13
These days I'm a "serious", thoughtful match-student, stunned by what a lot of people around me will put with watching without ranting.
I think we should bring back cushion-throwing before we reinstate community singing.
65 Posted 28/04/2011 at 20:51:11
66 Posted 28/04/2011 at 21:22:24
"...Joe puts it in the goal
and as for Alun Evans you can stick `im...."
67 Posted 28/04/2011 at 21:03:15
I'll go in against Stoke say and want to get behind them from the off; I want those points. I don't want to wait to see if Everton are deserving of my support; some are the same, others aren't. Each to their own.
Who you're surrounded by has an effect on your preferential actions. If you go in the Family Enclosure, some actions are not acceptable for example. Some fans are in say the Gwladys St and are feeling they're restricted, like they would be in the Enclosure. Fans have been getting kicked out for starting off your standard Everton songs for example.
People are looking into this far far too much. All it's a case of is those who don't want to be told to sit down or be quiet etc, go in this space, yet they're getting mocked for making an effort? No doubt the phrase 'Singing Area' is conjuring up dodgy images. But that's the trouble with labels; it excludes, but in short title it has to be called something.
Imagine us two having to sit by each other. Jesus. That's thought alone is a reason why it should happen. With thousands of fans though, you're bound to have contrasting ways of wanting to support them.
68 Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:13:33
You say: "Atmosphere/noise/singing in grounds that is NOT created by what's happening on the pitch, is, imo, just showing off, SELF-conscious and posturing"
You then clarify by saying: "I made it CLEAR I had NO problem with anyone singing IF it was a response to what was going on on the pitch."
What about fans who engage in pre-match singing in order to motivate or get a reaction from the Everton players and / or intimidate the opposition? Do you have a problem with this? Do you consider this "showing off, SELF-conscious and posturing"?
How about the pre-match roar when Z-Cars is played and the teams are coming out the tunnel? Clearly this is not an event happening ON the pitch, it's happening OFF the pitch. Again, do you have a problem with this? Should the crown remain silent until the game kicks off?
I'm just errrmm... curious like... in case you construe this as a personal attack... or a comment of yours being quoted out of context.
(Sits back, doesn't light a cigarette, waits for an utterly HILARIOUS not-at-all contrived response.)
69 Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:42:30
To those who seem to have this idea that chanting or waving banners has anything to do with Liverpool FC, then you're crazy. Look at the Gwladys Street ? we had banners and songs that were far more witty than our neighbours across the park.
70 Posted 29/04/2011 at 13:10:26
I'm not really a singer myself, more of a screamer and a shouter, but there's nothing better than when Goodison Is bouncing and I certainly wouldn't have any Issues with anybody or everybody around me singing / chanting.
I do get the whole the fans will only repsond to what's happening on the pitch argument, but surely it works in the opposite direction too? Both in helping to get behind our lads and intimidating the opposition. When we played Liverpool a few years back and the whole stadium was singing "ladyboy" to Fernando Torres was absolutely hilarious. In retrospect and in light of Everton's recent ridiculously over PC stance on banning fans we probably all risked getting three year bans, but surely this helped Jags keep him in his back pocket that night? Maybe maybe not, but I enjoyed it and it still makes me laugh today.
I went to the Rhein Energie Stadion in Germany (home of FC Koln) a few years back when we were in the throws of Destination Kirkby. Although I voted against Kirkby I wanted to sample what we may well end up with. The stadium was much better than I expected and the atmosphere was up there with the best I've sampled from around the world. Main reasoon for this - they had a designated standing area behind one of the goals (no seats whatsoever) where all the chanting started and slowly spread its way all round the ground
Chris I sit in the top balcony, so I'm not too sure if there's anything I can do to help get this going, but if there Is anything please get In touch
71 Posted 29/04/2011 at 14:20:55
That you feel you have to protect yourself with your final paragraph 'If I get my retaliation in first, he'll be forced to go easy on me' TRICK, does you a disservice and more importantly, has NO consequence on how I'll respond.
(nb: been tried before by smarter than you)
As for your questions - "What about fans who engage in pre match singing in order to motivate or get a reaction from the Everton players and / or intimidate the opposition? Do you have a problem with this? Do you consider this "showing off, SELF-conscious and posturing".
That is three questions I count which I will answer as honestly as I can.
1) What about them?
You don't agree with me?
Fine, it's opinions, but I HAVE made myself clear (afuckingain!).
If we're at home, playing shite, getting beat 1-0 by Birmingham and you want to sing and dance and show how amazingly loyal you are, fill your boots.
I don't and I don't want to be surrounded by people who do.
Seriously how fucking hard is that for you to grasp?
Not asking you to agree, couldn't give a shite.
And...that's it, there's no more, it's an opinion, it's not fact-based, or science, you're not going to produce a document that proves me wrong.
The question was put in the OP and I answered.
Seems my (honest) answer has put a bee in a couple of bonnets - below is the amount of minutes sleep I'll lose as a result.
72 Posted 29/04/2011 at 17:15:20
I counted three further unanswered questions (although it's possible I miscounted and if so, can someone 'smarter' than me please correct me) These were: "How about the pre-match roar when Z-Cars is played and the teams are coming out the tunnel? Clearly this is not an event happening ON the pitch, it's happening OFF the pitch. Again, do you have a problem with this? Should the crown remain silent until the game kicks off?"
These were in direct response to your comments (NB: your actual comments about noise etc generated by events happening ON the pitch, not misinterpretations and fabrications such as wanting to sing and dance when 1-0 down to Brum in order to show 'loyalty')
As for your own question as to whether I agree with you...in that order:
1. Can't really agree with a question.
3. No. I believe it's a method of showing support and trying to intimidate the opposition and get a reaction from the home team. By singing. At events that have not (yet anyway) happened ON the pitch.
And yes, you have made yourself clear.
73 Posted 29/04/2011 at 17:10:25
I don't think fans sing to show their loyalty, more likely that it's their way of trying to encourage the team on.
74 Posted 29/04/2011 at 18:04:42
It could be an idea to do this without the clubs knowledge to begin with.
Once it takes off the you have more fans on side to argue with the club if the club sees it as a problem.
75 Posted 29/04/2011 at 19:35:51
This is the main point I'm making, if you do not wish to join us, that's up to you but those who want to join are more than welcome. GS5 is an area of the ground that seems largely empty for most of the games. There's readily around 300 seats for people to locate to, without disrupting other supporters.
The centre of LGS, due to being a quite popular area of the ground, it seems reasonably understandable why Everton would want to restrict ticket sales in this area. The club would be far more willing to set up an area in an unpopular area of the ground as there won't be as many people affected.
Derek, hopefully if there's a pre-season game at home, we can organise something.
76 Posted 30/04/2011 at 18:49:02
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