Moyes pleased with fightback

Everton....at home.....three points would have put us in 4th.....

A top v bottom clash. The points were there for the taking but DM needs to look closer to home for why we didn't win. Namely his team set up, with one of the best centre halves in the PL playing RB to accommodate Heitinga. Add that to late substitutions and guess what ? We struggled. We've been lucky last few weeks with results with JH playing and if I (and others) could see it why can't DM. He might be pleased but I'm not.

Why are you comparing this side to the ones that regularly battled relegation? .That was over 10 years a go and we have been an established top 8 side since then. It makes as much sense as me saying this side is shit and why are we only 5th when we we're winning titles and constantly at Wembley in the 80's.

You can only compare this team with current expectations. I personally expected us to finish the season in 6/7th position so we're only doing slightly better atm.

This fully illustrated the shortcomings and total ineptitude of our transfer dealing (lack of).
We were too late to get an alternative in once Fer was considered injured !
The lad is playing regularly and every footballer shows up injuries on a scan.

Another reason for the lad not being signed was drugs showing up in his system...what a joke !
Maybe we should keep out of Holland as marijuana is legal there.

Im sick of article writers on here giving reasons why our management do what they do.
FFS let them make their own reasons.

1/ Why was our activity too late in the transfer window ?

2/ Why is our squad the smallest in the league.

3/ How is it that we can loan OUT easily and not loan IN. ?

4/ We don't take FER because he has an injury showing up on his scan, but we take interest in Negredo who has had far more injuries.

5/ We sign future stars eg; Kennedy and Stones but none for the present.

6/ Why are our youngsters so poor

We have used LESS players this season than any other premiership side and that shows up the total inadequacy of our bench

I can't get over how bad he was for that first goal yesterday.

After more than a decade of defying the odds for Everton, you would have thought that David Moyes had earned himself a bit more respect.

Sixty-four minutes in and with the Merseysiders trailing 3-1 to a Villa side who had belied their own troubles at the opposite end of the Premier League, Moyes made a double substitution that was to be pivotal.

The tiring Kevin Mirallas and the tormented John Heitinga off, Nikica Jelavic and Bryan Oviedo on.

Cue a crescendo of insults from all corners of Goodison Park.

By the final whistle, the jeers had been replaced by cheers, the old stadium rocking like days of old after two Marouane Fellaini goals had earned Everton a point that might yet prove priceless.

Moyes said: “The fans don’t seem to be happy with my ­decisions. They were the same at Bolton last week. I don’t know what their problem was, but it’s fine.

“As long as they direct their anger at me and not the ­players then that’s okay. We’ll just keep going and we’ll keep trying to get the victories.”

---------------------

Eh? What are they on about? The only jeers I heard were for Heitinga when his number came up.

I got the impression that the crowd was booing the subs rather than Heitinga.

Next season, when Moyes, Baines, Fellaini and Jelavic have gone, and we are in the bottom half of the Premier League, don't come crying... You have all sat on your hands while he fiddled and the club burnt. It was the same with the Kirkby fiasco — you all know who you are.

It's obvious BK knows Moyes isn't signing a new contract as all the "We talk every day" shite is conspicuous by its absence.... Ah well, next season he will have an extra £60m in TV money to put towards those Other Operating Expenses... Why does not he buy back Finch Farm with it for a start?

Oh, I forgot, the interest from his friends at Winga takes up most of that. He is a fucking disgrace of a chairman.
Rant over.

Can't really complain at the subs. Mirallas coming off was disappointing but he's not fully fit

Ifs and buts of Moyes decisions has cost us countless times and it shouldn’t happen the manager shouldn’t be costing points or contributing to cup defeats.

Fair enough if the other team beats us at our best you can’t argue but once Moyes starts thinking it’s lethal.

Remove his options and he’s safe but decision making is like him tackling an unexploded bomb – “what to cut? ..blue wire or red wire? …. actually they both look purple to me” – KERBOOM!!

Any of his kindred spirits Mcarthy, Mcleish, Allardyce given the luxury of 10yrs could supply the nil expectation lingering like a black cloud over this once great club.

Fans wallowing in excuses for him and his thinly veiled sulks when criticized are beginning to grind now it isn’t just long term critics like me who are having a go. Then again look at the contempt he’s shown regarding his contract and he wonders why the peasants are revolting.

I have little sympathy for him as regards the transfer window. In the last 12 months, he's brought in Jelavic, Gibson, Pienaar, Naismith, Francisco Junior, Oviedo, Mirallas, Hitzlsperger, Stone - that's nine players, FFS! We do NOT need a huge squad when we're not in Europe. We have enough players, and he needs to utilise the players he does have, especially the ones whose potential is untapped - Oviedo, Barkely, Duffy, Velios. I'd add Naismith to that, because his natural position is behind the striker and he's never actually played there!

Just get on with it and manage (yes, "manage") your footballing resources, Moyes. Justify your salary... and leave the moaning to us - that's our job!

We can argue all day (and do) about whether he should be doing better, but those clowns aren't in the same league. It would be a thoroughly depressing day if any of them got anywhere near our club. You think your pissed off now?

We realise we are not Chelsea or Man U or among the elite, but is it too much to ask that the same mistakes are not made over and over again. Square peg theory doesn't work David, maybe you should sit in the directors box from time to time, you might have the same vantage point of many of the Goodison faithful.

I'm sick and tired of how DM is the be all and end all for Everton FC, without him we wll be fighting relegation, why? We spend 60million pounds on wages and 4million pounds of that goes to the manager, so why should we expect to implode because a manager may leave us?

Wherever DM goes he will not get the same patience and understanding from his new clubs fans, he certainly won't get 10 years to find a formula to obtain success. He's also got to remember that he has played a part in lowering Everton FC's standards, until this last 12 months he has produced some of the most unimaginative football that Goodison fans have witnessed and that includes games managed by his mentor Walter Smith.

He's failed miserably to produce a positive result at OT, Anfield , Emirates and Stamford Bridge because he is so fearful that Everton will get mauled, he plays safety first and for the most part still loses the match. In games at Goodison, where it is not unreasonable to expect the team to win, we invariably manage to cock it up.

Whenever his team is under pressure to win, they more often than not buckle under the expectations, he is a small minded manager, who should be in charge of a really small club and I for one do not consider Everton FC to be a really small club, we're not a big club anymore, but we're not Bury or Tranmere either.

I don't watch and support Everton in the hope that we keep our PL existence, I support the Blues because I hope that the players achieve great things and that the club gets stronger with each passing season.

This season in some ways encapsulates the David Moyes era, great promise, glimpses of what is possible, only to be totally screwed up by strange management decisions and self-inflicted gaffs that totally undermine whatever it was we might have achieved.

Also, there was booing yesterday...and there was against Bolton...but the reality is that Moyes brought Heitinga on and he scored against Bolton, and following the subs yesterday, we went from 1-3 to 3-3. It wasn't the win we wanted or needed, but it does illustrate, ultimately, that Moyes was right to make the subs that he did.

The booing really irritates me, because I am worried that frustration towards the board will be misdirected toward the manager by an ignorant few, and then we will lose the primary reason why we are still competitive near the top end of the Premier League.

And Moyes wouldn't have lasted 10 games at Liverpool? What kind of idiotic statement is that! Liverpool have not had a manager in the last 10 years who has overachieved at that club...they've not had a manager who has even achieved what he should, bar one Champions League win, given the money they spend. We have had...and that's why he has lasted for ten years, and why we have not spend millions of pounds on compensation payments to release inept managers.

Plainly Heitinga (who the manager should not have picked in the first place, given his recent poor form and the defensive reorganisation it involved) needed to be taken off at half time, but DM waited until we'd conceded another goal before being brave enough to swap things round. If he'd changed things at half time then we could have still won it.

Moyes core approach reaps rewards over a season and season after season in the league. certainly in comparison to most clubs. The only clubs who do better than us are the bastards who buy their way our of a slump in form, and who have two or three options in every position.What we need is for him to be more flexible and use different options when things aren't going well. Lime everyone I get frustrated by this.

The idea that we are ever going to be excellent under a polarised and top heavy financial structure in English football is fanciful. We all want it but it's just unrealistic. I'm not saying Moyes couldn't do better, but I can never understand posters here who don't see what he has done for us when every comparable club in our league is consistently beneath us.

How does anyone get a club like Everton to the next level? No one has done it anywhere else.

Moyes has his limitations, like any person, but he has worked wonders for the club.

Barry, get yourself to a doctor immediately.

He'll think 'look what's happened to the fan-base, they expect so much less than I thought they did. 'Never mind the contract Davey Boy' , I can manage, Sell Felli, Sell Baines, put Phil Neville in charge, anywhere between 8th and 17th will satisfy these fans and we can save oh so much money by cutting the wage bill, I never believed it was possible, I am such a clever Chairman!'

Maybe its generational but those who remember titles and European wins don't recognise a glass ceiling between 5th and 4th and that 15 or so quality player always used to win championships so why not now?

Was listening to TalkShite this morning and there's Saggers and Quinny (because first names is too posh you know) spouting off about Spurs not being able to add a striker in January because Defoe has 1 in 9, Adebeyor is off in Africa and another two not on form either... then they dismiss Everton as 'not seemingly wanting to cross the line'. Cheers, we've got one good striker not on form and a Victor. Oh to be Tottenham Hotspur.

Moyes cant win, people have been complaining that Neville should be dropped because he’s crap, myself being one of them. Neville gets dropped and Moyes gets the blame for not playing Neville. Maybe Moyes was in the right and we were in the wrong. If Moyes was given the money to buy some decent players Moyes wouldn’t have all this shit spouted at him.

Duffy is now 21. But what is his future? Is he good enough for 1st team action or not? If not, Moyes needed a centre-half, not another full back in the transfer window.

Duffy should go out on loan to gain more experience than playing in the surreal academy. The brainchild of the FA, who don't understand real football. Real football that should tell seasoned coaches whether a player by the age of 18 has any future in the most demanding football league in the world, the EPL.

Actually, the one who stayed on far too long was Gibson. Right from the kick-off he was clearly unfit and maybe DM wanted to get as many minutes into him as possible.

Whatever we think or say about the manager, he will not change the methods which have cemented his reputation throughout the football world. He has his own unique and strange way of doing things and he'll stick with it no matter what. (Watching Spurs. This Holtby, the Everton fan, is something else.)

With regard to the slightly negative tactics against the top sides, something we all hate... In a Radio interview, the Reading manager touched upon this particular issue. He said he had to learn quickly the importance of staying in games in order to compete in the Premier League. Even at two-down, you're still in with a chance. 3 or 4 down and you're out of it. So, who knows. Maybe DM had to learn the same lesson.

Spurs 1-0. How is it Lewis Holtby is not playing for Everton.?

Things like we’ve had no money for 10 yrs is a lie and “in a fight for 4th “ is a tremendous feat of self delusion, we’re not seriously fighting for CL because of managerial decisions like yesterday.

Don’t worry he has plenty more opportunities to add to yesterdays loss of 2 points including fun and games in the FA Cup, plenty of scope for more of your melodramatic whining.

Oh and stop with the finances vs success excuse - Bradford and Swansea have added another hole below the waterline of that tired old bucket adding to those made by Pompey, Brum and Boro. (cue cup win = relegation theory)

As anger grows about the Moyes contract the “ignorant few” as you sneeringly reflect may turn into the pissed off majority such is Moyes inability to read the runes.

Brilliant plan B.

Shame about his plan A though.

Over the last couple of years , we seem to have strung our good form together from the bowels of the league and ended up in 8th, 7th etc. Then everyone says we've only lost x amount of games and how great we are. Ultimately the prize has been nothing because there is no pressure to win a load of games when you are finishing 8th

I feel we are stuttering again and still have to go to places where we never pick up wins. Hopefully we can reverse the half season trend, but we need a run of back to back wins desperately to even stay in the top 6. Draws are just no good , especially against relegation fodder.

He brings back Barkley from The Owls, eventually gives him a short cameo, the kid gives the ball away a couple of times and then he gets shipped off to Leeds as punishment. He ain't gonna learn how to play in the EPL at Leeds, FFS!!!

Duffy — what has he done wrong? Playing favourites instead of managing, being bold instead of defensive. We have had 10 years of this shit, it's no surprise people are waking up to this and asking the question.

We struggled against Villa, Chelsea have recently lost to Newcastle, and thrown away two goal leads against Reading and So ton.
Spurs couldn't beat Norwich, Arsenal are more erratic than us and Villa beat Liverpool at Anfield.

There is no reason why we can't get fourth, and as everything bad is DM's fault, if it happens I hope that those of you that rate him the same as Allardyce et all will be man enough to apologize on TW.

We struggled against Villa, Chelsea have recently lost to Newcastle, and thrown away two goal leads against Reading and So ton.
Spurs couldn't beat Norwich, Arsenal are more erratic than us and Villa beat Liverpool at Anfield.

There is no reason why we can't get fourth, and as everything bad is DM's fault, if it happens I hope that those of you that rate him the same as Allardyce et all will be man enough to apologize on TW.

Sissoko flashed past Ashley Cole who is not slow and gave him two yards start.
These guys are athletes and if they cannot be matched then its no good bitching about Heitinga and a couple of others in the league including lescott who don't have enough pace to compete.

If Duffy is as slow as Heitinga (which people say) then he will be no better.
Distin has more pace than players five years and more younger than him and he is the perfect foil for Jagielka for now.
Im not so sure about Stones as he hasn't been tested, he is tall for a fullback and that is a concern regarding pace.

Its no use complaining about Moyes with the shabby bench he has to choose from.
I would have played Neville at fullback and kept Jags and Distin together but maybe he is keeping Neville for the UTD game as he cannot play every game.
No one expected Villa to start so quickly as they appeared to lack confidence recently.
In a way Im glad that JH played and now he has been exposed as lacking in the vital ingredients perhaps he will be relegated to the reserves.
At least we got a draw.

My fear is the coming fixtures as we have to play all the teams around us in the next couple of months and we cannot strengthen the squad due to the boards negligence.
I would like the fans to lay off Moyes and direct their vitriol to where it should be.
At our inept board.

Look, the issue is we are at the top part of the financial league of the non-monied crew and that's where we finish.

For others this is marvellous, Stoke, WBA etc would be organising the open bus tour but this is Everton for gods sake.

I have some sympathy for youngsters who know only the Moyes years precedented by Walter but some of their claims are just bollocks, especially shite football and no cups is entirely money driven.

The finances are what they are, Moyes knew the score and if he didn't he must have worked it out by now. He is paid to meet expectation it's that simple, and I will argue till the cows come home that the majority of Evertonians see our expectations as more than shit football as best of the rest without ever winning a cup.

In fairness to Moyes he's changed the style but there are signs he's drifting back to his bad old ways, Jelavic out of position, Johnny on at Bolton and Duffy and Barkley ignored. Throw in his decisions at Leeds and yet another arrogant stance over his contract and there reaches a point when people say "seen this film before".

Plus he's part of the Kenwright strangle hold and a bit of a Jonah bad luck seems to follow him - injuries, key match suspensions and the bloody transfer sagas are the stuff of Grimms fairy tales.

It's time.

When Heitinga had a 'mare against Wigan he was hauled off at half time and I think that damaged his confidence; he doesn't seem to have recovered. You can't blame Moyes for one players mistakes. JH had held his hands up... he plays in BLUE and we should get behind him.

Trevor, unless you are talking about off-the-mark pace (where short, low centre of gravity people have the advantage) I wouldn't worry too much about a lad who is currently 6' 2" and may grow a bit taller. Gareth Bale is 6'1" and can burn most contempory players for pace.

Average heights have rocketed with the latest generation and with most of them it comes with a proportional increase in other body dimensions so less of them are the gangly under-powered beanpole type you may be worrying about. Twisty, tricky wingers seem less common as well.

You have a viewpoint that is possibly as far removed from mine as possible yet I know we both see some merits in the other end of our spectrums. For me, I have to be positive because hope is all we really have in our locker. Moyes is guilty in my eyes of elevating our hopes and expectations and reminding silly old buggers like you and me of what we once had and believed we should hold. It has been far too long, but when we reached the final in 09, we had the hardest run of games that any team could possibly get and fell to the best Chelsea side ever (my opinion).

This is Everton and there is much to be proud of, we just need lady luck to call in on us again, but she does it so infrequently it is hard to keep faith.

But then we have Ian Allaker. Now, I like to believe that Evertonians are not just smarter about footie than any other Tom, Dick. Harry, and Cassandra, but smarter more generally. But then Mr Allaker comes along yet one more time to challenge the very basis of my cherished theory.

Ian Allaker (#469): 'Moyes makes less mistakes than most.'

Okay, 'most' what exactly Mr Allaker? But, more to the point, in order to truly substantiate this, you need to let us know the methodology and conceptual framework that allowed you to come to this conclusion. We will need to know the scientific practices and principles you rely on.

Have you, for instance (1) constructed a large enough sample to pass muster? (2) constructed a credible set of comparative statistics that are rooted in appropriate comparisons in the first place?

Are you able to provide exact figures to back up your otherwise unsupported generalization?

Or is this just yet one more example of your Allaker-for-Moyes blind how dare you knock the gaffer coz we're in 5th arid and predictable formulations/guesswork?

I didn't defend Moyes's team selection; Nor do I have an issue with the consensus view re: Heitinga. However, far too often it is Moyes's fault when we lose or draw, and his regular detractors frequently overlook his part in a win, or actively posit a narrative that we won despite Moyes.

"Moyes is an arrogant buffoon..." - says some guy on the Internet...

With respect to you as a fellow blue, I'm completely at a loss as to why you can't see this.

The fact that very occasionally a team outside of the money clubs wins something - and this is usually a league cup when the top teams often play a second string, doesn't detract from this. In simple terms - statistically we, like every other team outside a few money teams, are unlikely to win trophies.

We can agree its not 100% driven by money, buts the reality is such that the game at the top is getting very predictable. Your first paragraph is interesting. You acknowledge we are one of the non money teams. But you seem to be expecting us to still win trophies. Show me any team who regularly challenge for, and more importantly actually win trophies without the benefit of big spending power. You won't be able to, because there aren't any. Yet you expect us to jump out of the pack and break the mould. On what basis?

Secondly I am 40 and in my lifetime we have won 5 trophies, 4 of those in the space of three years, until Moyes came along even I have more memories of relegation battles than trophies and success.

Instead of trying to live in the past people should accept the modern game and realise that Everton will not be regular contenders for trophies unless the rules are changed to stop the elite few clubs buying success, or we get a new owner. Hopefully we can get an FA Cup win, but even that will require a bit more luck than we seem to get.

Prior to the obscene amount of petro-dollars that came their way, do you remember 'the force,' Man.City were when Shaun Goater & Nicky Summerbee wore light Blue..?

I do agree with you that there is no reason why we couldn't have picked-up at least one trophy, however.

"We can agree its not 100% driven by money"

Even Kevin Hudson is on board with this.

It's always been my point, the obvious question is how long do you stick with a manager who fails to win a cup given the above.

You always miss the point though Barry. Did any of your class mates from school get a better job and a bigger house than you. Could you really pretend that you could match them by being, well whatever you expect Everton to be.

I just believe in reality, what I can see and balanced with what I know about what I see. Life is shit, nobody ever said it would be fair. Get used to it and stop dreaming.

Tail wagging the dog in large measure.

Vent your anger at Kenwright — he is the one who is to blame that no payers were brought in.

Moyes has had enough and is spitting out his dummy as usual. Why the fuck we didn't at least sign Butland to replace Howard is beyond me.

Kenwright has fooled you all again, that man though will get his reward in Hell.

I notice also that you didn't answer my question. Instead you gave an answer you'd expedt from a third year maths student who's been on his dads voddy the night before. I really don't believe you're that stupid.

It is not 1966.
Everton are no longer the giants of English football.
You could have 35 titles in the cabinet, but unless you have an annual £50m transfer fund and £120m wage bill you will win fuck all squared. Even Man City are proving that by pulling in the spending.
You can't have success by signing a £25 grand goal scoring centre half, an ex bin man, and a battering ram Scottish crock any more.

The apologists understand all of the above, and see Moyes's faults, that he is still the best available manager of Everton football club (crazy, but the most important measure in an assessment of any manager).

The mob, just want change as perhaps the above is all wrong:-

Yep, Moyes is responsible for red cards like Fellaini, is responsible for botched transfers – perhaps he was here for Ravenelli, Mueller, etc. The mob know that as long as Moyes is around we will be the best of the rest, selling to stand still. Get rid of Moyes, is their high risk gamble that Kenwright goes, and perhaps John Moores comes back. Merseyside Millionaires... Littlewoods revisited. Get your football pools on, 8 score draws, the forecast is high.

The shite football is a subject I've acknowledged Moyes has had a go at primarily because he's had no "extra" money thus proving my point much to the annoyance of certain posters.

Identifying the cup failure follows the same line. Not sure how you translate it any other way.

As an aside, I think the monied league works not just because managers can afford the best players but the likes of Moyes and his kin are more interested in protecting their huge salaries before taking them on.

To protect your job, meet your club's expectation by ANY means... at Sunderland, Stoke, Wigan etc it's all about Prem survival. Here, the issue is muddied; some pretend it's not survival when certainly at board and manager level it is. Those slavishly following Moyes don't like to admit it but end up supporting this shite and now there is a generation who will openly say "10 more years" and mean it!

I have no truck with it; in my opinion, one day someone will come along and put together a team from the cast offs and youngsters of whom there are thousands and threaten to win the league. Whether they succeed is another thing and yes it will only last a season because the monied clubs will cherry-pick but it will be the greatest thing to happen to football in this country since 1966. The destruction of the money argument in the league would be immense.

At certain times we look like world beaters and then we are terrible. Money is the problem but then it's not. It's Moyes and his shit tactics causing the lost points but then it's the poxy referee. I thought a few months ago we would definitely finish in the top 4 but now it's a long shot I just couldn't back.

What is it with this club that splits the fan base and opinion like no other? Am I cracking up under the pressure we all feel or am I just too emotionally involved?After all, it's only a game... but we treat it as life or death, black or white. It's not.

Being an Evertonian is so complex and has many layers; none of us fans can ever be right all of the time — not even me.

Would the editor please stop these people from using the site as a platform for themselves.

Voicing concerns about players, boardroom, managers etc is OK but some idiots are just arguing with each other in print.

Shouldn’t league campaigns be judged at the end of the season?

The question is – What is success for Everton FC?

League Champions?
FA Cup winners?
League Cup winners?
CL?
EUROPA?
Survival?

Ian where you’ve got this idea I’ve ever said there is no relationship between money and success is mystifying, but just to clarify – it’s not the only thing – as proven once again by Bradford and Swansea.

What utter rubbish you spout, if you don't think that money matters then you know nothing about the game. Money has and always will be the main reason why clubs win trophies, they can buy the best players and higher the best managers.

The only time Everton have won leagues is because we could under Catterick out-bid any club and the same applied to Kendalls first spell. Now if you don't think money has a bearing can you explain why Everton were so poor under Kendall's second and third spells because in your world as long as you have ambition the money doesn't matter.

I watched Carey's reign and right through to Moyes; given the constraints he works under, he is as good as any of them and if he had a comparable spending power as Catterick and Kendall first time he would be challenging for the title.

By the way, don't think for one minute that Catterick or Kendall didn't make mistakes in team selection or transfers. Anybody who could sell Alan Ball in his prime can't be that good can he?

Fair do's, helluva post Barry. The last paragraph (above) is spot on. It would be one of the great achievments in football for any team to win a title without competing funds.

Maybe you're setting your sights too high, maybe mine are to low, but I agree that this should be our aim. Oddly it's Moyes who has come closest to this but is still some way away.

I reckon the polarised nature of the premier league means playing consistent good football is difficult. Having four/five teams richer and supposedly 'better 'than everyone has two effects - they cherry pick from the rest of the league, obviously making everyone else's job more difficult, and managers may as you say rely on things other than free flowing attacking football. I don't blame them for that though, 'free flowing teams' usually disappear without trace, Blackpool being an example although Norwich are also starting to realise they have no plan B.

I honestly believe given a moderate spend that Moyes would get an effective balance of attack and defence. With good players we've shown that in the past, and at times this season. I looked at Holtby today and thought how fantastic he would be just behind Jelavic and between Pienaar, Fellaini, Mirallas and an in form Osman. Then I thought so would Dembele or Bale, another two we couldn't get near buying. Ho hum.

It will always be a divide between the likes of thee and me simply because I can't see Moyes ever having money here.

We can only call it as we see it John.

Nice idea... very unlikely but I wouldn't say that it couldn't happen say once in the next 100 years. For the other 99 seasons however it will be only be the teams with the money that will ever threaten.

'Fuck off, Moyes'
'Moyes will never win anything'
'We have a wanker as a chairman'
'He is a fucking disgrace of a chairman.'
'Moyes is an arrogant buffoon'
'He is a small minded manager, who should be in charge of a really small club'

It's not about this game, it's about the whole shambolic running of EFC. It's about the lies and deceit continually being fed to the supporters by those running the Club.

Moyes goes... Moyes stays... it doesn't really matter. The Cancer within the Club is at Boardroom Level.

If Moyes does decide to seek pastures new, who will be responsible? When are the fanbase going to concentrate on getting rid of Kenwright instead of the infighting and division that has been caused by the lies that were spouted to try and get Kirkby approved?

And who was responsible for that? Surely not our No 1 fan. >As much as I hate the Gobshites, they would have run him out of town years ago.

A lucky lucky 5th in a very mediocre Prem season. Don't get me wrong, 5th is the product of: (1) some good stuff from us and (2) the fact that the usual suspects around us cannot go on good runs. If (2) happens we will slip a little as we cannot develop the momentum it seems these last few weeks to pile up Prem wins.

Our closing games are harder than the ones we have had to cope with up to now. Your shallow "arguments" and selective use of stats does not serve you well, Billy Walker.

There will be a sell-out crowd no doubt in the region of 76,000 and a worldwide audience of 5 billion. So what will the tactic be? Keep it tight and settle for a point? I expect that they will get an early gift and then shut up shop and add another 3 points to their tally.

This is really a big game and Moyes should not be down-playing it as just another game. Ten plus years and we've not looked like ever getting a win there... surely the man has to get his charges up and treat this game like a big Euro cup game?

Win at Man Utd, Mr Moyes, and I will give you a 150% respect 100% of the time. Capitulate and... well, what do we really expect?

I think our biggest problem besides Jelly being out of touch and Mirallas not playing enough games, otherwise he would have scored more goals, is that Osman and Pienaar have weak as piss shots on them. Those two, for all the minutes they get, do not score enough. The Manchesters and other sides around our position have any number of players that can pot goals for fun.

Our goals against is no worse or even a touch better than most teams around us, it's just we miss the sitters more often and really Osman and Pienaar are the worst culprits; we are lucky Felli has been in a bit of form and Baines has a great set shot on him, it could have been ugly.

Would it be stupid to consider giving Oviedo a run in the side? He does look like he has a pretty handy shot on him: move Pienaar to Osman's spot, I think Pienaar is more creative thinking with the ball... Osman to the bench.

That gives us Anichebe, Fellaini , Jelavic, Mirallas, Oviedo and Baines who at least can shoot. I have watched Osman especially miss more sitters than Torres, which could have turned 4 of our 12 draws into wins.

That says it all really. If we do well, it's luck. If we do badly its not bad luck, it's bad management.

Why are some fans so keen to knock the club? I'm no BK fan and I see DM's failings too...but some of the blinkered bashing on here is a joke.

However basic personal abuse regardless of the team's performance and results makes me question the motives of the individuals concerned. It just looks like abuse for abuses sake, which is no use to anyone.

We were expected to win on Saturday, but Heitinga was dire and with 20 mins to go and 3 - 1 down, coming back to 3 - 3 will have been of immeasurable benefit to the teams spirit and belief, which will hold us in good stead for the next matches. If we'd lost a 3-goal lead and drawn it would have been a totally different dynamic.

The fact that the "usual suspects cannot go on good runs," only serves to underscore both the difficulty of the Premier League, and the excellent job David Moyes is doing..

I was really thinking we would have won at Old Trafford last season had the ref played the extra time that was wasted by united after our 3rd goal. When Jags broke free, I really hoped that it was going to be our hour, but alas.....maybe next time.

I'll say this slowly and carefully: we are 5th not because of 12 out of 25 draws but because others around us are below par this season and our 5th place is the outcome of some cracking play and fight on our part and the "cannot be counted on," less-than-satisfactory performances of those around us.

Simple. It's not rocket science, is it?

"We are 5th because other teams are below par this season.."

Who would that be, Arsenal..?

Sure, despite more investment, (Giroud, Podolski, Mertesacker, Cazorla, the new left-back) indeed they are under-performing..

Again, this only re-inforces how good a job Moyes is doing with the comparative buttons he simply HAS to spend wisely.

Do you honestly believe that if asked, ANY of the eighty-seven managers below, or the remaining four managers of teams above Everton, (with their unlimited chequebooks...) would professionally share your insane attitude towards Moyes...?

Would they hell - and you know it.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid!!

Osman and Pienaar..!!?? What's up with these guys? Why are they so weak? Their shots are like back passes and whenever Osman takes a corner he has trouble reaching the six-yard area. Baines demonstrated against West Brom, exactly what they should be doing... ie, Bursting forward and hitting the thing.... hard!

We draw far too many games but our consistency keeps us in 5th place. We are very difficult to beat. Our team spirit is second to none. Nevertheless, as Paul and others have pointed out, the rivals for 4th spot have been anything but consistent. Their fans have almost chucked in the towel.

Personally, I think, on recent form, 5th place flatters us but a return to something like our best is confidently expected within the next few weeks.

Brian's stat – 17 pts dropped against the bottom 8 teams – this is truly awful. If there is a good reason for this, I am missing it. Does anyone have a clue? Heavy ground and missed chances haven't helped but there's got to be more to it than that.

Somebody said what a great signing Sissoko was for Newcastle – unbelievable – he's played one fucking game.

If Moyes leaves, who the fuck is going to come in and replace him? Hughes? Jol? Pardew? Lambert? Don't fucking wish too hard, it might come true.

No-one seems to have posted comment about the idiots in the ground at the weekend who actually booed individual players…

I understand that Mad Johnny hasn’t been playing well or that the goalie sometimes is uncertain at crosses, but do ANY of you out there actually think that singling out individuals and directing your anger at them is going to do any good whatsoever…?! It’ll just make them more nervous and prone to MORE mistakes.

I’m not surprised that Moyes took Mad Johnny off [other than the fact he was having a nightmare] and that Howard reacted that way he did towards the Street End.

You seem to forget that Mad Johnny was player of the year last season; the manager picks him after all, so I think you should direct your anguish towards Moyes next time. Jags plays for England at Centre Half and our manager picks him at fullback… Make of that what you will.

Jesus Christ, they’re all Everton players out there and no matter how bad they’re playing, booing them individually is counter-productive and stupid.

Get behind them – we need each one of them due to how threadbare the squad is.

COYB

The frustration of missing the opportunity to pick up a top quality midfielder last month was all too evident on Saturday when Osman was largely anonymous again, but options to replace him limited.

I'm yet to be convinced by Oviedo and where his best position is likely to be in an Everton 1st team, as without game time it's hard to judge. Moyes maybe easing him in; but I feel he's already consigned him to understudy and bit part roles. At least for this season.

Finally, I agree with Andy Callan's post about booing players. It was the managers mistake to play Heitinga and perservering with him for so long. Call me old fashioned, but I've always felt booing an Everton player isn't really gonna help anyone and is self defeating as a supporter of the 11 boys in blue.

The Goodison 'rallying roar' when we fell behind, is sadly less evident nowadays.