Sub-par Blues suffer Europe setback

When Wigan go down, I would rather have El Habsi than Howard and look how many he has let in, at least he looks like he knows what he is doing!!!

MNF the Shite win and a good start too the season ruined by false hopes.

Sky bringing us up at half-time saves people turning over to watch the Alamo on TCM. As a team that only plays good for one half, I fear for us in the second half...

Pienaar still doing jack shit but the pacy Oviedo who will have a go is still warming the bench, another Everton tragedy.

God, Moyes, you knock me sick. You have just given them their easiest 3 pts of the season. I hate you. Go and go now. Because believe me you will never achieve anything at our club.

Why the fuck do we usually play so poorly when on TV? This has been going on for years.

Time to just concentrate on the FA Cup now... oh and next weeks game with Oldham is on TV too.

What did Naismith do wrong when he came on? Nothing, finally in his right position he linked with Jelavic better than anyone before him did.

So easy to blame Heitinga but Baines was a disgrace in that game, everyone knows what he can do but every big game he just chokes — looked slow, didn't deliver one good ball all game, and constantly gave it away; don't worry — he won't be going anywhere.

As usual, once Fellaini came up against a top class centre-back, he got nothing out of him and so offered nothing apart from giving us an excuse to hoof it. Should have sold him when the stock was high and got in players with pace and strength and someone who can defend.

The fact that we mustered one shot in the whole second half is disgraceful and is all too typical of Everton in big away games. If it's Old Trafford or Anfield, then we just roll over — and that is the difference between us and the top 6.

It looked good at times but play in the final third - APU - wasn't good enough.

CL is beyond us now, but there's still a lot to play for.

ps: If / when Wigan go down, let's get Maloney... PLEASE.

WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY Heitinga????? What about Duffy? Throw anyone in at CB but Heitinga. Is Moyes such a numbskull that he cannot see what 4,000 Everton fans can see: Heitinga cannot defend at CB!

Then we have the Usual Suspects: Neville, Jelavic, Naismith. The sooner Moyes goes the better. He hasn't a clue. He plays Jelavic on the bench. He doesn't deserve to be in the reserves never mind the bench!!!! Why not give Vellios a chance? Oviedo? Thomas H? Even Barkley if he wasn't out on loan.

And please don't let me hear fans deride Vellios & Barkley. They would have made more of an impression than the crap we've seen dished out in the last half-dozen games. Mid-table dross is our destiny come the end of the season.

I'd rather Moyes focused on the cup now, shit or bust time, in what may well be his final swansong.

Moyes desperately needs to go to Specsavers. We need to change things... teams are learning how to play us.

Do people really think Moyes is keeping better players on the bench because they are young.

Complete bollocks.

I thought first half we were the better team for most part.

The second goal was a killer for me and we didn't come out for the second.

We have used less players than any other top side and that is because we are totally bereft of alternatives.
If you cannot see that then you must be watching different youngsters than me.
Barkley is supposed to be the nearest to the first team and he has shown that he is lacking !
He is not setting the world on fire in lower divisions.
You talk about using the youngster Stones when he has not even played championship standard.
He should be used very sparingly this season against teams we are beating, but not brought straight in against the league leaders.
Its unfair on him and the rest of the team.
How can you blame Moyes for the club not bringing any players in during the transfer window.
Virtually every other club did some business and Newcastle bought five fresh players.
We are turning out the only players who can compete in this league and most of them are either burnt out or carrying minor injuries.
Blame the board not Moyes.
The man has no reinforcements and ammunition so how can he fight ?

No chance of top four now, but we could win the National, I think the Distin news made the difference as he has been our best defender for weeks.

Pienaar and Osman in particular were a disgrace – did either of them actually win any 50/50 ball? I have long felt that the "courting" of Pienaar from Tottenham has given him a sense of security that he has no right whatsoever to justify. If Moyes thinks his form is excellent then all as I can say is that Everton's training sessions must be joys to behold!

Anichebe again shows ample evidence of being the muscle-bound, lumpen, oaf that he has long threatened to be. Can this lad not actually jump off the ground? His general posturing is so ludicrous as to be almost a pathetic joke.

Sadly even Baines's display must rank as among his most ineffective. Of course the second goal coming when it did and after a promising phase of play from Everton was a killer, but nothing should excuse such a lamentable second-half display. Limited though his options are Moyes's failure to introduce the youthful energy of Oviedo in place of either Pienaar or Osman or even the addition of Hitzlsperger's experience to keep possession seems quite ludicrous.

The loss of Distin also was a blow especially in the early phase when yet again Heitinga's basic mistake cost us the early goal. As my anger has begun to subside, I am left feeling just plain sad that so many professional players in blue shirts could be so abject. It was a disgrace.

We couldn't expect anything out of a game against the Champions Elect on their turf, Heitinga didn't do that badly and Distin wasn't available. We dominated possession but couldn't create clear-cut chances but then again if we have to pin our hopes of Champions League football on winning games against Man Utd at Old Trafford, then we have a pretty tenuous grip on fourth place if you ask me.

Trevor, true, you can't necessarily blame Moyes for not bringing anyone in if Kenwright has no money, but if we had £8m to spend what were we doing farting about on the last day or two of the transfer window.The paucity of our squad was most evident today.The usual capitulation at OT. And Moyes must take the blame for his lack of vision or insight re the substitutions. Oviedo would have been a better addition than Naismith, Pienaar was knackered and Oviedo could have been a straight swap for him.

Teams who want to compete at the higher end of the PL, cannot afford Neville, Anichebe, Heitinga, Naismith or even Osman. Yet three out of the five players form a core part of our team. If DM does sign a new contract he has to ship some if not all of these players out and replace them with hungrier and younger players.

Yes the team has character and fighting spirit, but that is not enough to overcome most teams, skill and ability are also required.

I don't blame DM, but sometimes he doesn't help himself, but BK and chums, should have a good hard look at themselves what is it they want from the team and the club.

There are still a dozen games to go, but let's be honest many of us thought that Top 4 or 5 was beyond this particular bunch of players up to a dozen games ago.

Unlike others we haven't chopped and changed the management so if nothing is coming through who's fault is it?

I would love to know what Jags thinks of Heitinga... We can't blame Moyes because most of the team didn't show up. You can feel the Kenwright cloud hanging over the team. I'm sure no-one can believe that the board didn't take a risk in January and back Moyes and the team...

I hope Distin recovers for the cup game.

They aren't 'childish' for simply having a different viewpoint.

A. Top four was always a massive long shot, B. losing a game against the best team in the country at the beginning of February isn't the end of the road. C. If you think it was the end of the road then see point A.

I'd also start Stones on Saturday. Perfect opportunity to give him a chance against a lower league club.

I also really hope the news on Distin is good. Heitinga cost us the first goal today, and Neville cost us the second, when he should know better.

Many on here saying Jags was our best player - er, did no-one notice the hoofs that turned possession over at least half a dozen times?

First rule of playing good sides, don't give the ball away easily. I know he made a couple of covering challenges, but his hoofing is becoming almost comical to me.

No other top sides play this way, we look like a pub team. Once we can learn to play out from the back, we may be in with a chance of beating better sides away from home. A top class manager would not condone this long ball shite from International players.

Heitinga needs to go back to wherever and free up some wages for someone else. On Saturday, we should pair Jags with Duffy and give him a game, play Oviedo and give Baines a break.

I laugh when some say certain players aren't good enough; Hitzlsperger as an example — why give him a deal until the end of the season then if he's not good enough? Oviedo has looked bright when he's come on, Pienaar has stunk the place out but not according to our manager...

Surely Oviedo deserves a start; as for Heitinga, the less said the better... and Fellaini still don't seem to be the world class player that everyone else sees; a good player, yes; world class? — never.

If you give away possession, to Utd, as many times as we did today, defeat is inevitable,

Our final balls are, for the most part, Business Houses standard.

Pienaar is either on the piss or taking it.

If you Look in the dictionary under 'pointless' there is a picture of Naismith.

From where Neville's level of performance is right now, he would need a couple of years intensive coaching by the world's top coaches just to raise his game to the level of total shite.

Fellaini will go in the summer.

Moyes won't.

Once I saw Heitiga starting I actually felt that I would sooner play with 10 men and so it proved.

He was culpable for both goals so that makes it 6 goals in the last 3 games.

Apart from that teams have worked out that if they block Pienaar Baines and Fellaini out of the game we will be fairly anaemic and so it proved.

I do feel however that the lads put a lot in for most of the game and but for 2 silly goals we were always in it until our heads started to drop in the last 10 minutes.

Just think if we had a Rooney or Van Persie up front but thereagain we used to have a Rooney until we were desperate for money.

Next week we have a great chance of a place in the quarter final of the cup - loose that game and then I'll be f'ing livid.

Although we were toothless in attack we controlled the ball for long periods.

I thought Gibson had a good game and he and Miralles will be keep improving once they stay injury free.

True enough, outside our best 11 we do struggle but I think we'll be there or thereabouts come May.

My criticisms would be Osman not knowing that he's not strong enough to hold on to the ball and thus surrendering possession. Pienaar's constant throwing himself to the ground when he's outmuscled and Victor's petulence in the first half when he had absolutely nothing to complain about.

I think if Moyes has any comparable job offers, he will be off this summer... and then BK will have a very big decision to get right.

What would you expect 3 men down

Osman
Heitinga
Neville

We needed so desperately to strengthen in January to give us a chance. Us challenging for 4th place this season has actually been harmful as we have forgotten the plight we are in with no investment, no money, no trying 24/7 and soon to be no David Moyes and no Fellaini etc etc

But Bill the actor will still be there playing us like idiots.

So fucking angry right now.

The problems I saw were, when we got it in midfield, we were mostly ponderous and slow to build, whereas United were on the edge of our box in three passes.

We had players like Osman (who I tend to like) who loses the ball far too much and gets bullied out of it far too much.

We had players like Anichebe who still has an attitude problem and seems to behave like he world's against him, in addition to that, he stops and turns like an oil tanker...
Having said that, in the first half I thought we were in it and actually played some decent joined-up football... but in the second half I only saw cardboard cutouts of the first half team.

Lastly. I'm 55 years old, and have had my share of health problems... but I'd still beat Heitinga in a race over 10, 30, 50 metres.... and I mean that!!!

How about some 'childish' comments. This is utter bollocks: 'We couldn't expect anything out of a game against the Champions Elect on their turf'. Er, are you under one year old Drew? Do you have a memory that cannot stretch back for more than say 104 days? A lot of people did expect something out of the game, actually, and, unlike you, they do not fly yellow/white flags before a ball is kicked.

We did not 'dominate possession', as you say, Manure had more possession although, granted, we had a very nice spell in the second quarter of the game until tithead and up-and-coming star coach Philip John Neville for the second time showed a total inability to read the game.

And so let's fall back on the ultimate escape clause, we were playing the champions elect. As Drew says we could have expected nothing from this one. Or, in other words, there's little or nothing the gaffer or the team might conceivably have done to help our cause, even though Drew also says that we 'dominated possession' (little bit of an irony there, methinks).

We were woeful in the 2nd half. Jags can hold his head high but so too, for once, can Timothy Howard. The rest? Granted, Distin was bad luck we could not afford, but Neville, Baines, Heitinga, fucking Osman, Miralles (even), Piennar (not unexpected), shitbag whinger Anichebe (back to his usual self today), and, guess what, Naismith as the 7th Cavalry, rushing to the gruesome scene to save the day for the troopers in blue. Yet another 2nd half no show and we can only wonder what inspirational words drip from Moyessiah's lips in the dressing room at half-time and look, over there in the plum middle of the dressing room, there's Skip clapping his hands, gesturing (such forceful gestures), and urging, always urging, how lucky we are.

Both goals came from Baines's side were once again he abandoned all defensive duties. he also cocked up every set piece opportunity we had just floating them aimlessly, whats happened to those fast curved ones he used to drill in? He also just took two long over everything and once again in another big game performed badly. That sadly is the difference between him and Cole, big game mentality.

Osman and Pienaar are just burnt out, which is what happens when you've got to carry the team through most matches this season. They've been our sole creative outlets with Mirallas injured and Jelavic misfiring. They're just mentally and physically fatigued. Moyes's fault for not freshening them up.

We also need a new formation other than the one with Fellaini behind the striker. Naismith looked promising with Jelavic there so why not try Fellaini and Gibson in midfield and give Osman a breather. Squad rotation, imagine!

Be honest, Denis, that game was over the minute Giggs scored... fuckin disgraceful.

I thought we played well for 30 minutes today, between the two goals... but, once the second went in,they just had to much nous and desire to let us back into the game.

Trying to glean a few positives, Jags was great but expecting him to play his own game and cover Heitinga is too much for anyone. Gibson played well in the first half and looks to be coming back to fitness and Jelavic looked quite lively off the bench.

However, overall... pretty miserable stuff.

Yet another half time wondering what was said in the team talk because 2nd half - nothing.

Yes Heitinga was at fault for the first two goals (alongside Neville) but this is a side with too many players playing low on confidence / puff. Dropping Heits and Neville won't necessarily change anything. We need to rotate. I know we don't have strength in depth but Oviedo, Vellios and Duffy are worth ago. Feck it, bring Barkley back too, give the boy a go.

This season was an golden oportunity to race ahead for cl qualification, but when Moyes sold Rodwell, there was no adequate cover. And it told when Everton lost Gibson for quite a while. And we had the unenviable sight of Neville partnering Osman. Probably one of the worst combinations in the premier league.

At the beginning of the January sales (transfer window), this was another golden opportunity to bring in loan replacements for injured players such as Mirallas, Gibson and Coleman. And a striker to replace the misfiring Jelavic. But what did Moyes do? Buy another full back, young enough to play in the Under-18s. And probably destined to play in that useless academy.

Players who should be considered to leave at the end of the season clear out:

Howard
Neville
Hibbert
Heitinga
Osman
Naismith
Anichebe
Vellios
Jelavic.

I agree the goals conceded were a bit shit - Heitinga unbelieveably at fault for the first goal at least - and some players were below par (Pienaar for example), however Everton weren't "toothless" as the match report suggests.

Did anyone not think that Man Utd actually defended superbly? Watch every time we attacked, they pretty much had two lines of four in the way of us. The difference then was them being able to break at pace with world class players like Rooney and Van Persie being able to turn defence into attack at the push of a button.

As for the slur about us "dreaming" of top four... Again, fuck off. Why can't we dream? We are six points behind Tottenham, not exactly a fucking disaster is it?

Also given the fact we have again spent pretty much FUCK ALL AGAIN then to be in the reckoning still in February for top four is not exactly something to be ashamed about.

I wish, pray and hope for the best for the Blues but some of you on here need to have a fucking reality check - probably starting with some of you going to a fucking game for once.

Unlucky today Blues, still fucking love you.

Congratulations for naming the majority of the first team in your out list as well. So that would be our best striker and one of our best midfielders this season out for the scrap heap then?

Sorry to say Heitinga runs like he is towing a caravan, I have arthritic knees and a pot belly but could still take him over 50 metres.

Oh and I would chew glass and boil my head to play for Everton. A lot of our players are just turning up and getting minted.... put a shift in FFS.

It's all very well going on 20-game unbeaten runs when the prize is a 7th or 8th place finish and there is no pressure, as has happened over the last three years. We need to do it now.

I'm sure the focus will be on the fact we can't spend £20 million per transfer window and any shortcomings of the coaching staff will be justified.

There is still time to make this season memorable, but unfortunately I just foresee the same old sob stories.

Time to justify your 'reputation' Moyesy, starting at Boundary Park next week.

I wouldn't sell Jelly or Ossie either, but that is a matter of opinion. Both are good players going through a bad patch. I remember Jags had a dodgy patch last season, couldn't get a game ahead of JH. Distin too. Both have come good. Can't disagree with the rest of your list, mind you, although don't see it happening.

The lack of expectation though meant that I could watch the game with a little more objectivity than usual and too be honest I have to agree with most on TW: we were shite. At times we'd lots of possession but we're no Barcelona, we'd a couple of chances in front of goal, which you'd rather have Van Persie or Rooney on the end of instead of Anichebe, Osman or Jelavic. We'd a few Utd attacks to defend and you could only wish we'd Vidic or Evans instead of Heitinga.

I'm not going to knock Moyes, because I suspect he knows more than me and chooses who he thinks is the best team from the pool of players he has... BUT I do think Moyes lack of confidence in his bench is having a detrimental effect on older players like, Pienaar, Osman even Baines.

The sharpness, the creativity the energy, the spontaneity they had at the start of the season is gone, what they offer at the moment is experience. What's on the bench may be lacking the experience but I wish Moyes was a little more adventurous from the bench and sacrifice the experience for the rest. Well here's hoping its onwards and upwards for the rest of the season.

And what the fuck does going to the game have to do with anything? Does that stop people caring? Really grinds my gears when people say shit like that. I have a mortgage and 2 kids and live in Rotherham on a low income. I was also made redundant last year. I would be a pretty selfish twat if I travelled up to Liverpool every other week.

Newcastle, Home 2:2. (2 pts dropped) Both their goals came from the Neville/ Osman partnership.

Liverpool Home 2:2. (2 points dropped) Where is the midfield when things go amiss?

Swansea. Home 0:0 (2 points dropped) And Osman missed a sitter in front of goal with his head.

That's 6points, the difference now between Everton and Spurs.

""how were they the worst in the premier league? What evidence do you have to back that up? Its just a ridiculous assertion based on the fact that both are a bit unfashionable regardless of what they actually do when they are on the football field.""

In all the games I have seen this season, without Piennar and Baines (especially Baines) there was not much from anywhere else once Mirallas got injured. And is still finding his way back after a go, stop, go, stop, go season.

"'Congratulations for naming the majority of the first team in your out list as well. So that would be our best striker and one of our best midfielders this season out for the scrap heap then?""

Howard has been criticised all season.

Hibbet has hardly played

Neville is thinking of retiring

Heitnga is a liabilty.

Naismith is not EPL standard (more like SPL.)

Osman is pushed aside too easily leaving gaps in midfield.

Anichebe can't put a good run of games together over a season (lack of consistency

Velios hardly plays even as sub (seems to have gone backwards football wise.)

Jelavic has stopped scoring goals (that's why he is picked and paid.)

Hitzlsperger: Why sign a player who does not play?

Today's display... well, it's not getting beat, but *how* you get beat. Mr Moyes will never be Man Utd manager as he is not good enough.

We have a good first 11 and then basically Heitinga (lost it), Oviedo, Hitzlsperger (a crock), and about 5 untried youngsters.

We just cannot expect our players to play 38 games at a consistent "Top 4" level, Osman, Pienaar, Baines, Neville are clearly goosed, and Gibson, Mirallas, Coleman are not fit.

Whilst we have a chance of getting into Europe (CL! or Europa) or winning the FA Cup Moyes cannot give the likes of Duffy, Stones, Barkley, McAleny a chance. We'll only likely to see them if we fail in our attempts to get into Europe. He'll have to play them then as I'm sure the likes of Fellaini, Heitinga and maybe even Baines will leave.

Furthermore I've grew up with generally seeing Everton being shite, and I first started going the game properly during the days of Mr Disappointed - so in my personal opinion I can tell you that under Moyes we are a hell of a lot better. There has also been numerous occasions were I genuinely have questioned whether Moyes should do one, as he has well and truly deserved criticism on a good few times. But overall, and especially this season, I would defintely rather have him than not.

As for your point that we were shit, I disagree. We weren't at our best, but we weren't shit, and certainly not as bad as some are making out on here.

As for your situation I totally understand and sorry to hear of your redundancy.

As ever, you only look at goals and try and blame the midfield for it. We made mistakes at the start of the season that costs us points undoubtedly, but as a makeshift pairing you can't say they were the worst in the league, the results prove you wrong. If they were we'd be down at the bottom because we sure as hell can't defend and none of the strikers seem to be able to score. Unless you're part of the club that thinks Marouane peerlessly carries the entire 11 through every single game.

Some of those players you name are good but out of form, funnily enough if you buy other players they will have good days and then days when they're out of form. how about a system were we just change players every season showing no loyalty whatsoever to ensure that players are always in top form.

Sell Howard, get in who for a similar price who is better? Sell Hibbert for buttons probably and who fills that spot? With what cash? If Neville's retiring why get rid of a squad player who is still made us of? Why get rid of Jelavic, could you not hear the away fans chanting for him today? He was in some great positions again but as ever no-one picked him out, he looked so much better with Naismith in behind him but I'm sure as ever the untuchable Marouane will be upfront again next week clogging up all our creative play but rectifying it by scoring from a corner.

Players that I earmarker for the clear out are considerations. Not definites

It's about making a judgment.

We are told certain players in the academy should be given a chance.

Oviedo
Stones
Barkley are considered as strong candidates.

Stones will be good cover for Coleman and Mirallas

Oviedo can be good cover for both Pienaar and Baines

Barkley should replace Osman to give midfield more strength and power

Next season, much more money is available from Sky tv.

Pardew has shown you can buy bargains from the French league.

Then there is the Dutch and Belgium leagues.

It really is about having good scouts on the look out.

Everton big need is for a goal keeper who can come out and catch the ball

A centre back if Duffy can't step up to the plate

And 2 strikers who can score goals.

"Its just a ridiculous assertion based on the fact that both are a bit unfashionable regardless of what they actually do when they are on the football field".

Unfashionable? Try unproductive. Pienaar has been woefully out of form for a couple of months and Osman has reverted to type by following a brief hot streak with an extended period of looking like he's running through a swamp with two 'space hoppers' strapped to his feet.

How many times did these two players needlessly give the ball away today? How many times did they go to ground? How many times did they lose out in a 50/50 challenge? Osman was left trailing in Ryan Giggs wake like he was the Flash, not a fucking 39-year-old.

You obviously have some ingrained personality trait that predisposes you to 'go against the grain' & champion the maligned. Hence your constant praising of Neville, Osman and Pienaar and your never ending bollock-stamping on Baines & Fellaini. Seriously, it seems like every single post you make turns into a Fellaini slagging session. We get it. He winds you up. You think he's hopelessly overrated and puts in shit performances. I feel the same about James Corden but I don't use every single conversation as an opportunity to rip into the repulsive, annoyingly unfunny fat fucker. Now it seems Baines has joined Fellaini on your shit list.

This duo may not be as good as some Evertonians proclaim, but they are by far the two most talented & influential players in this current team. If you would rather a team full of solid pros in the mould of 'Pip' & 'Ossie', than a team full of potential match winners like Fellaini & Baines then you obviously see the game a different way to myself.

Proof of Moyes' keep-it-safe policy right there. I mean, pushing your defence upfield should be the very first thing the team covers if they have any aspirations of attacking & winning games at all.

Beyond sick of him & he needs to go. I'd happily swap a year or two of mid-table with decent cup runs if it means Barkley, Kennedy, Hope, Duffy, Velios & Oviedo got a fair crack at reaching their undoubted potential.

It's no disgrace to be beaten by a side that is running away with the league, so everyone needs to get real. Jelavic looked lively when he came on and as game pans out he will get chances unlike Anichebe who will only get one chance a game, sits on his arse for the rest because for a big lad he's not strong enough to stay on his feet when he goes in for challenges.

Moyes did cock up here because I believe we play better football when Jelavic starts but we missed a chance in the transfer window to inject some competition for midfield and attack.

In games I saw this seaon, Neville was not able to quickly move the ball forward. Instead, either moved it sideways, then back and eventually found Howard. Who then hoofed it up field as a 50/50 ball that usually favoured the opposing defence.

Osman was often caught out in midfield which gave the opposition plenty of time to launch an attack, thus giving the impetuous and confidence to the other side.

We should be miles better off. Newcastle at home, Fulham away, Wigan away all games we should have won. Norwich, Swansea and Villa poor performances at home which cost us points. 12 to be exact.

Its just very frustrating as we have not done ourselves justice over the past 4 or 5 weeks.

Normal service is resumed.

The game I saw today, Jones in midfield picked up Fellaini.

Why? Because SAF knows that Fellaini is about the blues best attacking option.
Since Jelavic stopped scoring goals, which is a big worry.

So, in fact, Fellaini was marked by 2 players, which would not have happened if the blues had a real other goal scorer.

All I want is fairness and consistency when judging players but this site does not seem to possess any. I don't like Fellaini, that much is obvious, but I wouldn't go on about it as much if there wasn't so much deluded hero worship of him. I applauded him in the home game v Man U because he was outstanding, as he was at Fulham away. Other games he's been absolutely terrible. He never gets called for it though. We gave him years to settle in yet can't give the same to Naismith. He's missed loads of sitters for us that have cost us points yet its Osman and Pienaar that get called for when they do it. He gives the ball away more than a lot of players in the team yet its Jelavic that the groans start for if he has a bad touch. I think he makes us play a bad brand of football and doesn't have the pace to make it to the top of the game. In games like this against an aerially dominant centreback he's largely useless and contributed nothing but where is the criticism of him? Its muted becaus ehe's built up a bank of credit for performances this season. This bank doesn't seem to exist for Pienaar, Osman or Jelavic though does it?

Equally with Baines, i've called him the premier leagues best left back on here because I genuinely think he is. But I also think he has a problem with his mentality in big games. He didn't play well today but people would rather gloss over it and just blame Heitinga. Heitinga deserves blame but by equal token so does Baines.

The second half was a true embarrassment. What Manchester United carried out today was a controlled demolition.

Reading the various posts it would seem that a lack of strength in depth is forcing Moyes to use the same players, week-in, week-out, when one or two look pretty well burnt out. Of course we will never know why he prefers not to take a chance on younger squad members, especially when we see 17-year-olds performing well for Swansea and Southampton, but he'll have his reasons.

"'Sell Hibbert for buttons probably and who fills that spot? ""

How many right backs do you want?
There is 2 at moment, Stones and Coleman

""Why get rid of Jelavic,""
He can't score goals.
The same situation for a goal kicker in Rugby union who can put the ball often enough between the 2 posts

"'Naismith in behind him""
Did you watch him and Naismith against Southhampton?
I go the impression they never knew each other before that match.

Jelavic described "Naismith as the best attacking partner he has had in his career."

What does that tell you about Jelavic?

How low have we sunk ?

We've played poorly in 2013 the 2 useless draws against Southampton and Swansea ended our top 4 challenge. You have to take your chances we get chances and don't take them.

WTF does that mean? Please put me/us in the light? I'm fairly smart, I think, and it seems to mean people who don't go to the match regularly coz they do not live overseas, for instance, do not 'have an affiliation not too dissimilar to our loveable neighbours across the park?'.

Have I got it now? Is that what you meant? If not, then please say something coherent and not your fucking stupid link between Evertonians who watch at home are more like the twats over the park than those who go to the match. Because that is the only streak of an argument that I can see in this last post.

Back to our youth. If our academy is so highly rated and respected, how are all of our players just not ready to play against premier league sides? Hope Akpan was a castoff of ours that wasn't even considered for Everton and dishes out 2 assists in a rare Reading win his first game! Why did we buy Oviedo? He's can play winger or fullback and has CHAMPIONS LEAGUE experience. Naismith is a support striker with no pace. Moyes him plays him out wide at the expense of Oviedo, an actual wide player. As for Shane Duffy, I'm sure if he actually played, he wouldn't be directly responsible for 5 of our last 6 goals conceded in a 3 game span, like a certain Dutchman I know of.

As for the game, I would say that Mirallas was simply not aggressive enough and it was pretty embarrassing to see him actually defer to Neville passing backwards, rather than taking defenders on and making his presence felt. However, his worst day is much better than Naismith's best out wide and there was no reason for him to be subbed off in a game we are chasing. Whenever Naismith is subbed in, it should be to replace Osman.

That way, Fellaini can drop back to a position he can play (box-to-box center mid) and Naismith can play as a support striker, his natural position. At least that would make sense. Manchester United defended us very well. They had quite a few blocks when we were providing some pressure on their goal. On a positive note, Jagielka was excellent. So often, he swooped in to clean up a mess Heitinga made by having crap position.

We missed the two type of players that Moyes tried to sign. We had numerous chances, we just didn't take them, end of.

John Nelson was right on every point. I live in Australia now, I spend around £400 a year on merchandise to try and show my support, I still do not class myself as a proper fan though. That's people like John who put their money were their mouth is and genuinely support the club.

It used to annoy the crap out of me after games in the pub or at work "fans" putting the club down when it turned out they hadn't set foot inside Goodison for years. So sorry to offend Michael but, yes, that is Kopite behavior.

Before today's game we had lost only 3 games, the same as Utd. As for having a go at Moyes over the cup final, really? We had lost to injury the best centre back in the country, a playmaker in the form of his career and our leading goalscorer. Would Chelsea have beaten us if we had a full strength team and they had of had Terry, Lampard an Drogba missing, no chance. Please some of you on here get real.

I didn't see a lack of effort yesterday I saw a gulf in class, and in modern day football more than ever money buys class. It is the points we've dropped against weaker teams that will do for our top 4 challenge, not against a team who will surely win this league, and at a canter. It is for that reason I feel that some on here are overreacting.

However this defeat is the culmination of a poor run of form and in that respect the more extreme sentiments are understandable.

It ain't over til it's over, and ever the (blind and irrational) optimist I'll still believe until the bitter end.

If you look back on his press conferences, interviews and general demeanor, Moyes is a beaten man. Now don't say he he goes into that dressing room and changes into Jose Mourinho, because I have never set eyes on a more miserable looking / sounding bastard in football.

I don't blame him for being pissed off after the transfer window - but he is being paid far too much to let events translate onto on-field matters.

He is the manager who has held onto certain players for years on end, instead of selling them and bringing in a more vibrant, younger first team. He has total control over who comes and goes, that is why we find ourselves with one of the oldest first teams in the division.

A message to Moyes - if you are going, fine, let the Chairman know so we can find a replacement, maybe we can find someone who has some balls, and maybe his replacement will crack a smile once a year.

£63m a season in wages, a team full of Internationals, a manager on a £4m salary, it's not exactly the fucking budget of a relegation threatened club.

We are all the same in my book and always will be.

Gareth, you say your not a proper blue!!!!!!

Unbelievable comment

Essentially, as man and manager, he lacks courage and intelligence, not to mention sensitivity (unlike, say, Howard Kendall - who is in a quite different league as man and manager). For a man of conspicuously limited talent, though, he as done very well, indeed - for himself and for us.

I think we are beginning to see, in ever sharper focus, the effects of his strengths and weaknesses.

It was like men against boys yesterday.

I think Victor has done well this season but yesterday he was back to the cliche of sitting on turf, slapping the floor and gesticulating for a foul whilst the play continued. I can't stand that attitude. Get back on your feet lad and win it back FFS!

Osman is a neat and tidy footballer and has been good for Everton down the years but in these games he is ineffectual and his brushed off the ball too easily.

Neville shouldn't be on the pitch. He consistently fouls and gives the ball away. You can't have players against top teams who lose possession and give silly fouls away so easily.

Pienaar keeps stopping play and letting teams get back. It infuriates. A couple of times yesterday we got into good positions and he stopped, came inside and we lost momentum.

Baines was off form yesterday and so was Fellaini.

Gibson was solid but kept going sideways.

Howard did well. Needs to work on his ball distribution though.

Mirallas tried hard but things just didn't come off for him and he looked rusty.

Jags was my MotM but relinquished possession too easily with his hoofball.

Heitinga. Shite inga. We should stay away from Dutch players!

Wake up and smell the coffee, Blues.

He has served his apprenticeship in the Prem at Everton's expense and I sincerely believe it's time for him to go. If he goes sooner than later I do fear that he, like many managers do, take some players with them and these may be the likes of Jags,Fellaini and Baines.

God only knows how poor Moyes thinks Oviedo, Duffy and Vellios are if they are overlooked in favour of Anichebe, Naismith and Heitinga.

One of Moyes's better qualities was his ability to recognize the opposition's weaknesses and exploit them; what he is not seeing and is now failing to do is, recognize that opposition managers are doing the same and he has no Plan B. The game yesterday showed this as Man Utd stopped the Fellaini threat and Baines & Pienaar and Moyes had no answer to that — he must have known what was going to happen.

To me it shows Ferguson was very cautious and in fact defensive in his approach, showing great respect for what Everton might do. But his plan worked perfectly, and we couldn't break out of their grip. And they scored two awful goals from an Everton point of view, and then held out very strongly. Which goalie made the (admittedly few) saves? Not ours for sure.

I have been critical of many of our players in the past but I'm not sure they deserve it on this occasion. They played poorly at times because Man U wouldn't allow us to play our game. Fair dos to them they blanked us.

Like in Tennis nowadays, Federer plays lousy because Djokavic pressures him into errors. Give credit to the winner, don't automatically lambast the loser.

Well, a couple of instances spring to mind: the first being the Capital One League Cup, Moyes brought Garbutt on at half-time, he never put a foot wrong and looked confident on the ball. The following round, against Leeds, he never even got a run out and pretty sure he never even got on the subs bench... Another being Vellios, nearly every time he has played he's made an impact, as does Oviedo.

Jelavic seems out of sorts and that could be down to Fellaini playing more advanced; it could be worth dropping Fellaini back and either playing Naismith in his favoured position alongside Jelavic or go all out with Jelavic and Vellios in attack.Heitinga is costing goals and I agree — how can Duffy do any worse than a player making mistakes and goals coming from the mistakes?

I've said it before, Moyes has players he simply will not drop for whatever reason: Fellaini suspended and straight back in the team after a ban (now wait til I finish): a few seasons ago, Beckford gets stuck in traffic and late for the cup game — that was it for Beckford, even after scoring that goal against Chelsea.

The point I'm making is: had Neville or the like been the one stuck in traffic, would they have been treated like Beckford? Not a chance. It's time the likes of Duffy, Stones, Oviedo, Barkley and Vellios were given a chance — and not just for half a game. People said Barkley had his chance and looked ordinary. That was one game; give the kid a chance and not judge him on one performance.

Neville should have been dropped after doing that patheic dive in the mersey derby. It completely discredited our holier than thou attitude. He could put in for the next series of Splash when hopefully time is called on his playing career.

I'd take Beckford over Naismith any day of the week.

Some players must be good in training or have evidence of Moyes in an umcompromising situation.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to see EVERY young guy play and empty the bench. What I would like to see is 1 or 2 players from our best 11 given a rest when needed in favor of our younger players to give them some confidence/experience. Every top manager does that. There was a time when SAF didn't have billions to splurge on world class talent. He has always had the balls to play his younger players with the hope of uncovering a hidden gem in the process. Wenger too.

If Jack Wilshere was an Everton player, he'd be warming the bench because Moyes would be afraid of him making mistakes, as if every player doesn't make them regardless of age. Our squad isn't THAT small. Moyes just doesn't have the faith in our bench to play them, even though he bought most of them after scouting them. It's a peculiar situation indeed.

My concern is how do the rest of the players feel when Moyes continually plays out-of-form players. It must have an effect on them. They cannot be happy watching Heitinga have terrible games every time he is selected, and maybe it's affecting their own game. We know Heitinga is playing the worst football of his life, but he does not select himself — so the fault lies squarely with the manager. He persisted too long with Jelavic. When he comes off the bench, there's no difference to his form, and we then see Vellios pushed off the bench.

I just had a sinister thought: Maybe there's some clause in Moyes's contract that states he will remain with Everton if they qualify for the CL. Perhaps the deal with Man United is already done... as long as Everton don't reach the CL. That would certainly explain his absolute ridiculous team selections in the last half dozen games.

MOYES DOES NOT WANT EVERTON TO QUALIFY FOR THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE SO HE CAN BECOME THE NEW MANAGER OF MANCHESTER UNITED. I'll get me coat.

Can Baines tackle? I'm not sure.

Why does Victor punch the ground when the ball is still in play giving the defender an easy time?

Has Osman's form dipped since playing for England?

Why does our left back take corners?Can't our "wingers" cross a ball?

Why do I support this club?

I wonder who on here, hand on heart, thought we would get anything other than beat at OT?

12 games to go... every chance of a top 5 finish... maybe more! :)

Crossing into the box was terrible from all 4 of our wide players. Can no one ping in a decent flat cross in.

If jones is going to follow you all game, go and sit on the full back or Evans to create the space and send victor or mirallas to the gap. Basic stuff?

Heitinga is a liability and we need a new centre back - badly. It was 12 vs 10.

Moving fellaini back after jones went off was a mistake. The 2nd goal was a killer for us, with the 2nd half creating no chances and no possession up top. Vidic coming back for them was massive.

Just think about it. In the summer we sell Bainsey and Fellaini for a combined £50m+. Plus £30-40m extra telly money that could be around £90-100m into the club. This is the perfect business plan. Plus Moyes leaving in disgust (another £4m saved). The new manager will be given £10-15m to spend and BK will be seen as a financial genius who has saved the club from ruin. It's perfect when you think about it.

Gerrard missed the penalty as I was reading this startling revelation, which makes me think: by a sick twist of fate, we might just make it to CL all the while Moyes is doing his utmost to keep us out of it. That's what happens in the Greek tragedies. You do everything in your power to avoid something, but it proves impossible, because fate has decreed that it shall be so and not otherwise. I am more inclined to believe that Moyes is not extending his contract, because the board expects him to accept a pay-cut. If Moyes gets a better deal elsewhere, he will go. Money is the beginning and the end of all things. Money makes the world go around. WBA just scored.

"Well we're building for the long term with my footballing philosophy, there are definite signs of improvement, after all they gubbed us by three last time."

West Brom score against Liverpool and Moyes gets grief.

Incredible.

If Man U won the CL then the top 4 would qualify for the CL.

I don't think the winners of the Europa League has any bearing on qualifying for next season's tournament unless of course there is a last minute rule change to accommodate our neighbours.

So, in short, the top 5 and winners of the domestic cups qualify for European football.

However, let's look forward to Saturday: beat Oldham and then look at two perfectly winnable games.

I was as disappointed as anyone yesterday (the bad old days etc) but we need to move on.

Apart from anything else, WBA's smash and grab tonight has definitely improved my outlook.

I think it's odd-on he will leave now. Unusual for a PL manager to be on MNF.

I guess that one favourable draw on Sunday and a few of the other top teams drawing each other could just see us at Wembley, and as against Man U a couple of years ago, anything can happen.