Sub-par Blues suffer Europe setback

, 10 February, 190comments  |  Jump to most recent
Manchester United 2 - 0 Everton
A disappointing performance from Everton combined with wins for their top-four rivals gave the Blues something of a reality-check in their pursuit of Champions League football.

Though this was nothing like the meek displays of Premier League years past where the Blues have been convincingly beaten in all aspects of the game, the performance from David Moyes's side was well short of their plucky recovery last year where they came back from 4-2 down to draw 4-4 in thrilling fashion.

In contrast to that day, the final ball and the killer instinct was glaringly absent from Everton's play and two first-half goals made this a more routine victory than even Sir Alex Ferguson would have been expecting.

Moyes's plans were disrupted right before kick off wen Sylvain Distin was forced to pull out through illness and poor defending from his replacement, John Heitinga, allowed Giggs to roll the ball in off the post for the first goal after 13 minutes.

A dangerously high defensive line from Everton had been torn open early on when Robin van Persie ran clear, rounded Tim Howard but rattled his shot from the angle off the outside of the post.

That would serve in retrospect as a dress rehearsal for the goal that would render the game as effectively sealed just before the break. Van Persie again raced into space behind the defence and danced past Howard before slotting home.

The second half was largely a non-event, with Evertin unable to find any rhythm or penetration before a late flurry briefly offered hope.

Substitute Nikica Jelavic forced a decent save from David de Gea but the young Spaniard was largely untested by the Blues who lost for the first time in 2013.

Quotes or other material sourced from ToffeeWeb Match Reports



Reader Comments (190)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Kevin Day
1 Posted 10/02/2013 at 15:25:58
No sign of Johnny Heitinga in the team or subs.
Chris Morris
2 Posted 10/02/2013 at 15:54:21
Heitinga starts. Distin unwell
Trevor Lynes
3 Posted 10/02/2013 at 15:53:24
Heitinga is on the bench I believe
Trevor Lynes
4 Posted 10/02/2013 at 15:59:10
No Im wrong, Duffy is on the bench and Heitinga is starting !!!!!
Distin is unwell
Ralph Basnett
7 Posted 10/02/2013 at 16:52:06
Same shit, different week. Bullied in midfield, Anichebe not playing to the whistle, Pienaar, say no more. No wonder Moyes won't sign, what for, this is his lot, and it's not a happy lot!!

When Wigan go down, I would rather have El Habsi than Howard and look how many he has let in, at least he looks like he knows what he is doing!!!

MNF the Shite win and a good start too the season ruined by false hopes.

Sky bringing us up at half-time saves people turning over to watch the Alamo on TCM. As a team that only plays good for one half, I fear for us in the second half...

Ralph Basnett
10 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:28:21
If ever you want proof Moyes is feathering his Old Trafford nest he takes off our pace player Mirallas and puts on that creative midfielder Naismith, is that Scottish for NO SMITH!!!!!

Pienaar still doing jack shit but the pacy Oviedo who will have a go is still warming the bench, another Everton tragedy.

Andy Meighan
11 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:43:55
Fucking disgraceful. That coward reappeared once again — and let's not forget, this isn't the first time he has gone there and rolled over for them. He's fucking petrified of them, Chelsea and Liverpool.

God, Moyes, you knock me sick. You have just given them their easiest 3 pts of the season. I hate you. Go and go now. Because believe me you will never achieve anything at our club.

Ste Traverse
12 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:51:36
Well with other results around us this weekend all going against us, and today's defeat, this is the day when our top 4 ambitions ended. Or did they end on January 31st with those tight-fisted cunts in the boardroom?

Why the fuck do we usually play so poorly when on TV? This has been going on for years.

Time to just concentrate on the FA Cup now... oh and next weeks game with Oldham is on TV too.

James Martin
13 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:53:17
Ralph — and what did Mirallas do apart from cock up our best chance of the whole game? Absolutely nothing. Yet another person on this site who will let off anyone who has a biggish price tag but just bashes British players.

What did Naismith do wrong when he came on? Nothing, finally in his right position he linked with Jelavic better than anyone before him did.

So easy to blame Heitinga but Baines was a disgrace in that game, everyone knows what he can do but every big game he just chokes — looked slow, didn't deliver one good ball all game, and constantly gave it away; don't worry — he won't be going anywhere.

As usual, once Fellaini came up against a top class centre-back, he got nothing out of him and so offered nothing apart from giving us an excuse to hoof it. Should have sold him when the stock was high and got in players with pace and strength and someone who can defend.

The fact that we mustered one shot in the whole second half is disgraceful and is all too typical of Everton in big away games. If it's Old Trafford or Anfield, then we just roll over — and that is the difference between us and the top 6.

Patrick Murphy
14 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:57:08
Next weeks game is the biggest game of the season so far, win and we can still hope to win a trophy and play in Europe. Lose and the season's all but over.
Clarence Yurcan
15 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:58:15
Well, back to our rightful spot in 7th place, God forbid one year should ever be any different, I mean God forbid we actually win an away match against a top 4 team. Honestly, I would just put all effort into the FA Cup at this point, who cares if we finish 7th or 10th?
Peter Barry
16 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:55:20
Same old, same old — a typical Moyes team performance at a top four side. Have we got to suffer this big game battler in charge for another season?!?
Brian Waring
17 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:59:19
Fellaini never got a sniff, they kept him quiet the whole game.
Phil Davies
18 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:57:45
We need to forget about the League and concentrate entirely on winning the FA Cup if we are to get into Europe.... 12 games left playing 5 of the top 8 and 4 of those are away.
Anto Byrne
19 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:56:36
Moyes should've taken off Osman and Pienaar but no — Vic and Kev go off and, as predictable as Moyes is, we get Jelli and Naismith.

Fuck off to Man City or Chelsea, I really don't care.
David Cornmell
20 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:00:35
I thought we competed alright until the second went in before half-time. That knocked the stuffing out of us.

It looked good at times but play in the final third - APU - wasn't good enough.

CL is beyond us now, but there's still a lot to play for.

ps: If / when Wigan go down, let's get Maloney... PLEASE.

Max Murphy
21 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:50:26
Déjà vu, David Moyes. Same comments as last game, game before, game before...

WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY Heitinga????? What about Duffy? Throw anyone in at CB but Heitinga. Is Moyes such a numbskull that he cannot see what 4,000 Everton fans can see: Heitinga cannot defend at CB!

Then we have the Usual Suspects: Neville, Jelavic, Naismith. The sooner Moyes goes the better. He hasn't a clue. He plays Jelavic on the bench. He doesn't deserve to be in the reserves never mind the bench!!!! Why not give Vellios a chance? Oviedo? Thomas H? Even Barkley if he wasn't out on loan.

And please don't let me hear fans deride Vellios & Barkley. They would have made more of an impression than the crap we've seen dished out in the last half-dozen games. Mid-table dross is our destiny come the end of the season.

Tony Twist
22 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:58:08
What would really put the cherry on top of the cake of this miserable weekend is to reward Moyes with a new 5-year contract. Move on, Moyes — it's time you had a new challenge. Best of luck.
Joseph Strumm
23 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:54:24
Any chance we can leave Heitinga, Neville, Howard, Naismith, Chris Woods and, fuck it, Moyes and his side kick in Manchester?
Mick Wrende
24 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:55:27
Moyes must take the blame - some of the players are playing total crap but he will not put any young players in the team. Duffy couldnt be worse than Heitinga and why not put the young full back in cos he cant be worse than Neville. He just never will put a youngster in even to get experience. We will be lucky to finish top half at this rate.

Simon Harris
26 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:58:48
I agree Patrick. I sadly gave up hope of 4th after the transfer window debacle. I'll never forgive the board for missing the opportunity; again.

I'd rather Moyes focused on the cup now, shit or bust time, in what may well be his final swansong.

Jim Harrison
27 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:01:48
Yeah, because every team turns up at Old Trafford and rolls Man Utd over! Statistics prove it wasn't a meek surrender, until about 70 mins possession was in Everton's favour. Better decision-making in the final third is what we need.
Terry Maher
28 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:04:49
Crap today.

Bye-bye, top 4...
Brian Waring
29 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:08:04
Jim, it was a comfortable afternoon for the Manc's, they didn't have to get out of third gear, also, we could have played another 90 mins against them and we still wouldn't have scored.
Danny Moore
30 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:06:20
Spot-on, Max. Moyes has gotta freshen the side up and play some young blood. Barkley would've done better than Osman with a fresh pair of legs. Oviedo would've done better than Naismith, and Vellios would've made more of an impact than Jelavic. And Duffy wouldn't've got skinned like Sheitinga for the first goal.

Moyes desperately needs to go to Specsavers. We need to change things... teams are learning how to play us.

Jamie Barlow
31 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:03:36
Why can't Duffy be worse than Heitinga and why can't the new lad be worse than Neville?

Do people really think Moyes is keeping better players on the bench because they are young.

Complete bollocks.

I thought first half we were the better team for most part.

The second goal was a killer for me and we didn't come out for the second.

Nick Entwistle
32 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:09:47
Out classed by mainly no marks and an old man. That's Utd for you. The players look devoid of ideas. Moyes must be fuming after the window closed. I don't know if top 4 is all over but we'll need to kick on without the influx of January players. I hear Drenthe is still a free...
Trevor Lynes
33 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:04:41
Mick..we do not have any youngsters !
If we had youngsters good enough they would be in !

We have used less players than any other top side and that is because we are totally bereft of alternatives.
If you cannot see that then you must be watching different youngsters than me.
Barkley is supposed to be the nearest to the first team and he has shown that he is lacking !
He is not setting the world on fire in lower divisions.
You talk about using the youngster Stones when he has not even played championship standard.
He should be used very sparingly this season against teams we are beating, but not brought straight in against the league leaders.
Its unfair on him and the rest of the team.
How can you blame Moyes for the club not bringing any players in during the transfer window.
Virtually every other club did some business and Newcastle bought five fresh players.
We are turning out the only players who can compete in this league and most of them are either burnt out or carrying minor injuries.
Blame the board not Moyes.
The man has no reinforcements and ammunition so how can he fight ?

Peter Cummings
34 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:07:50
Obviously DM doesn't read this web: we all wanted an attacking game but all we got was samo samo...

No chance of top four now, but we could win the National, I think the Distin news made the difference as he has been our best defender for weeks.

Anthony Lamb
35 Posted 10/02/2013 at 17:52:57
Where on earth does one start with this woeful, abject second half display? Few can hold their heads up after such an abysmal display but some should hang it lower than others.

Pienaar and Osman in particular were a disgrace – did either of them actually win any 50/50 ball? I have long felt that the "courting" of Pienaar from Tottenham has given him a sense of security that he has no right whatsoever to justify. If Moyes thinks his form is excellent then all as I can say is that Everton's training sessions must be joys to behold!

Anichebe again shows ample evidence of being the muscle-bound, lumpen, oaf that he has long threatened to be. Can this lad not actually jump off the ground? His general posturing is so ludicrous as to be almost a pathetic joke.

Sadly even Baines's display must rank as among his most ineffective. Of course the second goal coming when it did and after a promising phase of play from Everton was a killer, but nothing should excuse such a lamentable second-half display. Limited though his options are Moyes's failure to introduce the youthful energy of Oviedo in place of either Pienaar or Osman or even the addition of Hitzlsperger's experience to keep possession seems quite ludicrous.

The loss of Distin also was a blow especially in the early phase when yet again Heitinga's basic mistake cost us the early goal. As my anger has begun to subside, I am left feeling just plain sad that so many professional players in blue shirts could be so abject. It was a disgrace.

Drew O'Neall
36 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:13:13
A few childish knee-jerk reactions on here.

We couldn't expect anything out of a game against the Champions Elect on their turf, Heitinga didn't do that badly and Distin wasn't available. We dominated possession but couldn't create clear-cut chances but then again if we have to pin our hopes of Champions League football on winning games against Man Utd at Old Trafford, then we have a pretty tenuous grip on fourth place if you ask me.

Ray Roche
37 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:16:15
Trevor Lynes @995

Trevor, true, you can't necessarily blame Moyes for not bringing anyone in if Kenwright has no money, but if we had £8m to spend what were we doing farting about on the last day or two of the transfer window.The paucity of our squad was most evident today.The usual capitulation at OT. And Moyes must take the blame for his lack of vision or insight re the substitutions. Oviedo would have been a better addition than Naismith, Pienaar was knackered and Oviedo could have been a straight swap for him.

Brian Waring
38 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:19:19
Why is it that when we get beat and lads start criticising, it's always 'knee jerk'?
Andy Meighan
40 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:11:21
James (#973) — I could not agree more. Your posts are always spot.on. I feel cheated today by a poor poor performance. I don't like the way we roll over for these teams — and it'll happen at Arsenał, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Patrick Murphy
41 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:04:07
While Everton didn't offer much of a threat to MU, most other teams apart from a couple have had the same fate at OT this season. It only goes to prove that this season's PL as far as quality is concerned is one of the worst since it began. Everton are a decent team on their day, but they are pretty average more often than not.

Teams who want to compete at the higher end of the PL, cannot afford Neville, Anichebe, Heitinga, Naismith or even Osman. Yet three out of the five players form a core part of our team. If DM does sign a new contract he has to ship some if not all of these players out and replace them with hungrier and younger players.

Yes the team has character and fighting spirit, but that is not enough to overcome most teams, skill and ability are also required.

I don't blame DM, but sometimes he doesn't help himself, but BK and chums, should have a good hard look at themselves what is it they want from the team and the club.

There are still a dozen games to go, but let's be honest many of us thought that Top 4 or 5 was beyond this particular bunch of players up to a dozen games ago.

Dean Adams
42 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:51
Drew O'Neall - hush. You will get lambasted on here for talking sense.
Barry Rathbone
43 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:19:38
Trevor lynes, yes we have no youngsters but you miss the obvious point of why not?

Unlike others we haven't chopped and changed the management so if nothing is coming through who's fault is it?

Mohammed Horoub
44 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:16:32
This is the time we really feel the pain of the draws early in the season. Jagielka, Gibson and Howard the only bright spots.

I would love to know what Jags thinks of Heitinga... We can't blame Moyes because most of the team didn't show up. You can feel the Kenwright cloud hanging over the team. I'm sure no-one can believe that the board didn't take a risk in January and back Moyes and the team...

I hope Distin recovers for the cup game.

Peter Laing
45 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:43
Against Oldham, start with Duffy and Stones, inexperienced as they are, could they do any worse than two former has been internationals in Neville and Heitinga.
Michael Kenrick
46 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:26:26
You're right, Brian (#000) — it's a totally disingenuous way of belittling valid opinions from many Evertonians who know what these players can produce. Once we allowed them the initiative in the early stages, and they scored with such ease, the game was up.
Ian Bennett
47 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:18
Apart from Jags, I thought the rest failed to justify any of their wages. Johnny liability at it again, who'd of thought it. Hope stones or Duffy play next time if Distin is out. The inevitable sale of Fellaini needs to sort out a number of problem positions, and I am talking 4 or 5 minimum – right back, centre back x2, centre midfield x2, right midfield, striker, keeper.
David Hallwood
48 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:26:18
The difference between the sides is the bench. Most of our players know that they are racing certainties to get selected regardless of their performance, whereas even RvP and Rooney will be dropped if they don't perform. We're back to the filthy lucre.
Ste Traverse
49 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:27:27
Fans are fully justified to come on and vent their spleen, Drew O'Neall #998.

They aren't 'childish' for simply having a different viewpoint.

Drew O'Neall
50 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:25
Brian, people just have to be realistic about where we are, eg Terry Maher (#990), 'Crap today, bye bye top four'

A. Top four was always a massive long shot, B. losing a game against the best team in the country at the beginning of February isn't the end of the road. C. If you think it was the end of the road then see point A.

Danny Moore
51 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:59
I can't wait for Moyes to go now. I don't agree with our youngsters not being good enough, especially with the weary look to the side. Moyes needs to grow a pair of bollocks. What a frustrating time watching a clueless weary shambles. Heitinga got a game, for fuck's sake, after last time out. I wouldn't mind Laudrup taking over next season... I drool at the thought.
Kunal Desai
52 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:31:44
Maybe big changes in the summer is whats needed if it means the pathetic and lying board are hounded out of GP.
Brian Waring
53 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:27:04
Dean, when one of the bottom teams get a result against us, the reason (by the way, we have dropped 17pts against the bottom 8 teams) is because they park the bus, are fighting relegation etc, when we don't get nothing from one of the top teams it's because they have more money etc, so at the end of the day it seems we should never complain because there is always a reason (excuse) for every dropped point.
Tony Twist
54 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:24:58
It is obvious we are on a downward trend... if this is to do with tiredness, then maybe. But therefore there is no excuse not trying the youngsters in this game or others before this. Thus giving the youngsters some needed experience and the regulars less than 90 minutes football, week-in, week-out. It's the manager's fault for not doing this.
Jim Knightley
55 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:30:52
Champions League is not a silly dream... we were impotent today, Neville was horrible, but 6 points from fourth, when Spurs and Arsenal have European commitments, and play each other in 3? weeks, is not unassailable. We need to beat Norwich and Reading, and get positive results against Spurs and Arsenal...but don't throw the towel in yet, because we lost 2-0 away to the best team in the league. We were not incisive enough, but it was not an embarrassing performance. Just very frustrating.

I'd also start Stones on Saturday. Perfect opportunity to give him a chance against a lower league club.

I also really hope the news on Distin is good. Heitinga cost us the first goal today, and Neville cost us the second, when he should know better.

Kevin Tully
56 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:32:46
Just shows how differently we all view players performances.

Many on here saying Jags was our best player - er, did no-one notice the hoofs that turned possession over at least half a dozen times?

First rule of playing good sides, don't give the ball away easily. I know he made a couple of covering challenges, but his hoofing is becoming almost comical to me.

No other top sides play this way, we look like a pub team. Once we can learn to play out from the back, we may be in with a chance of beating better sides away from home. A top class manager would not condone this long ball shite from International players.

John Keating
57 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:30:08
I hate to say it but we have to sell Fellaini in the Summer. I'd love to keep him but we are lacking in so many positions and depth we have to get the money from somewhere to get them.

Heitinga needs to go back to wherever and free up some wages for someone else. On Saturday, we should pair Jags with Duffy and give him a game, play Oviedo and give Baines a break.

James Stewart
58 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:41:29
That performance was a disgrace. That is all.
Patrick Murphy
59 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:40:21
Jim, football being football nothing is impossible, but I bet the odds of Everton finishing in the top 5 never mind top 4 are pretty high, I don't know what they were on Friday but I'll wager they have drifted out since six-o'clock tonight.
Peter Thistle
61 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:36:24
Kinda predictable result. Hoped for better but expected the worst. It's upto Moyes now to lift the team and push on for the remaining games. Would need to go on one hell of a run to bridge the gap, can't see it happening.
Stevie Leary
62 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:35:41
Jags for me was the only one who justified his wage today; Gibson looks unfit and overweight and Osman has been poor for a few weeks now – I think he's burnt out. For me, this is were Moyes needs to use the squad better.

I laugh when some say certain players aren't good enough; Hitzlsperger as an example — why give him a deal until the end of the season then if he's not good enough? Oviedo has looked bright when he's come on, Pienaar has stunk the place out but not according to our manager...

Surely Oviedo deserves a start; as for Heitinga, the less said the better... and Fellaini still don't seem to be the world class player that everyone else sees; a good player, yes; world class? — never.

Eugene Ruane
63 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:29:05
A few observations followed by a couple of guesses

If you give away possession, to Utd, as many times as we did today, defeat is inevitable,

Our final balls are, for the most part, Business Houses standard.

Pienaar is either on the piss or taking it.

If you Look in the dictionary under 'pointless' there is a picture of Naismith.

From where Neville's level of performance is right now, he would need a couple of years intensive coaching by the world's top coaches just to raise his game to the level of total shite.

Fellaini will go in the summer.

Moyes won't.

Jay Harris
64 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:32:27
It's very disappointing particularly with the way the rest of the weekend has gone but as I said before the game not many teams go to OT and come away with anything.

Once I saw Heitiga starting I actually felt that I would sooner play with 10 men and so it proved.

He was culpable for both goals so that makes it 6 goals in the last 3 games.

Apart from that teams have worked out that if they block Pienaar Baines and Fellaini out of the game we will be fairly anaemic and so it proved.

I do feel however that the lads put a lot in for most of the game and but for 2 silly goals we were always in it until our heads started to drop in the last 10 minutes.

Just think if we had a Rooney or Van Persie up front but thereagain we used to have a Rooney until we were desperate for money.

Kevin Tully
65 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:50:40
Patrick, we were 11/2 now 8/1 with the shite. Arse evens and Spurs just odds on.
David Cornmell
66 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:52:20
No Jay, it was Phil Neville who played RVP onside for the second. That killed the game stone dead.
Phil Bellis
67 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:50:22
Definitely Waltered in that display
We lost that match, momentum and any chance of 4th place (the new League Title, for younger readers) in the January transfer "window"
Denis Richardson
69 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:52:06
Jeez - reading some of these posts you'd think we'd come to the end of time. We lost at OT - what result do people realistically expect? We didn't play great but who can honestly say that they expected a point (let alone 3) from todays game? We lost and its not a massive surprise that we diid. Take it on the chin and move on. A lot oof players did'nt play well - deal with it.

Next week we have a great chance of a place in the quarter final of the cup - loose that game and then I'll be f'ing livid.

Shane Corcoran
70 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:58:14
I must be the only one who took some positives out of the game.

Although we were toothless in attack we controlled the ball for long periods.

I thought Gibson had a good game and he and Miralles will be keep improving once they stay injury free.

True enough, outside our best 11 we do struggle but I think we'll be there or thereabouts come May.

My criticisms would be Osman not knowing that he's not strong enough to hold on to the ball and thus surrendering possession. Pienaar's constant throwing himself to the ground when he's outmuscled and Victor's petulence in the first half when he had absolutely nothing to complain about.

Sam Hoare
72 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:03:56
Mathematically still possible but this weekend is when the CL became out of reach. 7 points is too much for us to overhaul to a strong Spurs squad with our very challenging run in.

I think if Moyes has any comparable job offers, he will be off this summer... and then BK will have a very big decision to get right.

Chris Perry
74 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:11:51
That must go down as the worst most toothless uncreative dross seen this season. Top 4, my arse!

What would you expect 3 men down

Osman
Heitinga
Neville

John Campbell
75 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:12:28
It's a good job we still have Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea all away still to come...
Steve Edwards
78 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:08:34
Never mind... look on the bright side: at least you have been put out of your misery. Let's hope we don't get into the Europa booby prize League that guarantees next season will be shite. They really need to bin that competition.
Phil Rodgers
79 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:19:38
2nd half was abject. Too many players just not trying hard enough for me. Not only that but we really needed to freshen up in January cos certain players look absolutely dead on their feet. I can accept losing to man United but not like that.
Max Murphy
81 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:06:21
Denis, it's not just the losing at OT - it's our performances in the last 5 or 6 games (possibly more). If we have the good fortune to reach the cup-final, you can guarantee Moyes will f@ck it up, like he did in 2009. Playing an out of form Hibbert ahead of Lars Jacobsen cost us the first goal. Malouda took him apart. The threat was nullified when Jacobsen replaced him at half-time. Chelsea's second came from Lampard, thanks to the pathetic Neville.
DM rewards his long-serving, experienced and favourite players by selecting them when their form is woeful. Any young player coming through that makes the slightest mistake is banished to the reserves or put out on loan. Is Moyes afraid his 'favourites' will give him bad tweets if he drops them?
John Atkins
82 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:21:13
Not good enough and never will be good enough with Widow Twanky at the helm, him and his cronies need to fuck right off, I'm sick and tired of this now.

We needed so desperately to strengthen in January to give us a chance. Us challenging for 4th place this season has actually been harmful as we have forgotten the plight we are in with no investment, no money, no trying 24/7 and soon to be no David Moyes and no Fellaini etc etc

But Bill the actor will still be there playing us like idiots.

So fucking angry right now.

Brian Williams
83 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:28:51
Dead on their feet? How the fuck they manage to be that is beyond me? Most of 'em play one competitive game a week so to be dead on your feet is absolutely ridiculous — and don't anyone try to give me the "Oooh they're playing under immense stress for a long period of time."

The problems I saw were, when we got it in midfield, we were mostly ponderous and slow to build, whereas United were on the edge of our box in three passes.

We had players like Osman (who I tend to like) who loses the ball far too much and gets bullied out of it far too much.

We had players like Anichebe who still has an attitude problem and seems to behave like he world's against him, in addition to that, he stops and turns like an oil tanker...
Having said that, in the first half I thought we were in it and actually played some decent joined-up football... but in the second half I only saw cardboard cutouts of the first half team.

Lastly. I'm 55 years old, and have had my share of health problems... but I'd still beat Heitinga in a race over 10, 30, 50 metres.... and I mean that!!!

Paul Ferry
84 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:09:20
Drew (998) 'A few childish knee-jerk reactions on here' (by the way, why are critiques after the match that are made over and over again at different times and contexts always 'knee-jerk': I think you'll find that many of these 'knee-jerkers' have in fact been singing the same tune for some time now)

How about some 'childish' comments. This is utter bollocks: 'We couldn't expect anything out of a game against the Champions Elect on their turf'. Er, are you under one year old Drew? Do you have a memory that cannot stretch back for more than say 104 days? A lot of people did expect something out of the game, actually, and, unlike you, they do not fly yellow/white flags before a ball is kicked.

We did not 'dominate possession', as you say, Manure had more possession although, granted, we had a very nice spell in the second quarter of the game until tithead and up-and-coming star coach Philip John Neville for the second time showed a total inability to read the game.

And so let's fall back on the ultimate escape clause, we were playing the champions elect. As Drew says we could have expected nothing from this one. Or, in other words, there's little or nothing the gaffer or the team might conceivably have done to help our cause, even though Drew also says that we 'dominated possession' (little bit of an irony there, methinks).

We were woeful in the 2nd half. Jags can hold his head high but so too, for once, can Timothy Howard. The rest? Granted, Distin was bad luck we could not afford, but Neville, Baines, Heitinga, fucking Osman, Miralles (even), Piennar (not unexpected), shitbag whinger Anichebe (back to his usual self today), and, guess what, Naismith as the 7th Cavalry, rushing to the gruesome scene to save the day for the troopers in blue. Yet another 2nd half no show and we can only wonder what inspirational words drip from Moyessiah's lips in the dressing room at half-time and look, over there in the plum middle of the dressing room, there's Skip clapping his hands, gesturing (such forceful gestures), and urging, always urging, how lucky we are.

James Martin
85 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:30:53
Don't understand the criticism of Neville in this game. He dropped back like you should in those situations, it was ridiculous that the two CBs were trying to play offside against Van Persie that high up the pitch. Other than that how often was he troubled defensively? He didn't even give the ball away that much.

Both goals came from Baines's side were once again he abandoned all defensive duties. he also cocked up every set piece opportunity we had just floating them aimlessly, whats happened to those fast curved ones he used to drill in? He also just took two long over everything and once again in another big game performed badly. That sadly is the difference between him and Cole, big game mentality.

Osman and Pienaar are just burnt out, which is what happens when you've got to carry the team through most matches this season. They've been our sole creative outlets with Mirallas injured and Jelavic misfiring. They're just mentally and physically fatigued. Moyes's fault for not freshening them up.

We also need a new formation other than the one with Fellaini behind the striker. Naismith looked promising with Jelavic there so why not try Fellaini and Gibson in midfield and give Osman a breather. Squad rotation, imagine!

Andy Meighan
86 Posted 10/02/2013 at 18:11:21
Denis (#045). What do I really expect? I expect an Everton side full of internationals to go and have a go at them. Unfortunately, we've got a manager who's petrified of so-called top teams...

Be honest, Denis, that game was over the minute Giggs scored... fuckin disgraceful.

Max Murphy
87 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:49:16
Brian, if you're in Oldham next Saturday, bring your boots, you're playing centre-back!
Graham Mockford
88 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:47:33
Heitinga really has gone... three consecutive woeful performances. If Distin is not fit for Norwich, it will have to be Duffy.

I thought we played well for 30 minutes today, between the two goals... but, once the second went in,they just had to much nous and desire to let us back into the game.

Trying to glean a few positives, Jags was great but expecting him to play his own game and cover Heitinga is too much for anyone. Gibson played well in the first half and looks to be coming back to fitness and Jelavic looked quite lively off the bench.

However, overall... pretty miserable stuff.

Amit Vithlani
89 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:56:08
We played ok for about 25 minutes after they scored and then Utd put some effort in and easily got a second.

Yet another half time wondering what was said in the team talk because 2nd half - nothing.

Yes Heitinga was at fault for the first two goals (alongside Neville) but this is a side with too many players playing low on confidence / puff. Dropping Heits and Neville won't necessarily change anything. We need to rotate. I know we don't have strength in depth but Oviedo, Vellios and Duffy are worth ago. Feck it, bring Barkley back too, give the boy a go.

Rob Smith
90 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:38:11
Osman and Pienaar burnt out? Fuck me, they couldn't create enough heat to singe a fucking tissue. Completely fucking useless, cannot score, weak as piss on the ball, thats why we are sliding down the ladder. If one of our Felli or Jelli don't score, we are fucked. They get the blame, Osman ,Pienaar, Gibson, Mirallas, Naismith, how many have these dynamos put past keepers? About as many combined as Felli himself. How many goals have the midfielders from the other top 7 sides scored in their teams totals. Do our Ossie and Pienaar match these players, they must of course, do they boss anyone besides the neighbours cat. Not fucking likely.
Patrick Murphy
91 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:17:29
Rob, My neighbours cat is very upset with you, he says that never ever has he been bossed by Ossie and Pienaar. and if you continue these ludicrous allegations he will seek legal advice.
Paul Dark
92 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:25:06
We will never finish in the top four with Leon Osman a regular starter. He's a shockingly bad footballer.
Clive Rogers
93 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:06:49
Pathetic performance. Absolutely nothing in the last third of the pitch and nothing creative through the middle. Great tactics Moyes starting with Pienaar right and Mirallas left - pathetic. Since Hitzlsperger was offered a full season, he hasn't figured, what was the point? Moyes just wants to play all his blue eyed boys every week. Lets hope he comes back for them from wherever he is next season.
Kunal Desai
94 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:41:48
New Chelsea boss Moyes in triple swoop on former club for toffee stars Osman, Naismith and Neville!
James Martin
95 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:33:48
Genuinely can't believe criticism of Osman and Pienaar on here. Especially the latter. Fine for this game but have osme perspective of the whole season please! Pienaar turned around our season last year and kick started this one. There's been so many games where he's been the best player but because Fellaini donked one in off a corner he'll get motm despite offering little else apart from better than average hold up play. I know people are angry about the result but some of the comments on here about players who have performed well this season and the majority of the time they wear a blue shirt are an absolute disgrace. If you want a team full of 6 foot 5 athletes then go and watch Stoke. Pienaar and Osman can out play some teams for 89 minutes yet the one time one of them is pushed off the ball everyone is up in arms about how weak they are, such an infantile way to view the game. Fellaini did nothing for us for four seasons yet is paraded like some sort of Messiah by the same people who also wanted Arteta out in order to keep him. Makes me sick. he's laughing at us now with his regular CL football whilst we're left hoofing it long to Maoruane's head. How times have changed. The School of Science is well and truly dead on here isn't it. Pienaar and Osman our worst players? Dear me some people's heads have gone. Xavi and Iniesta don't get judged on their goals do they (not a direct comparison before someone pipes up) but then again they're not judged by a motd fanbase that seems to only value goals and people smashing other people off the ball, footballing skill being neither here nor there.
Steavey Buckley
96 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:27:09
I don't blame the players for the anticipated loss of champions league place, I blame Moyes.

This season was an golden oportunity to race ahead for cl qualification, but when Moyes sold Rodwell, there was no adequate cover. And it told when Everton lost Gibson for quite a while. And we had the unenviable sight of Neville partnering Osman. Probably one of the worst combinations in the premier league.

At the beginning of the January sales (transfer window), this was another golden opportunity to bring in loan replacements for injured players such as Mirallas, Gibson and Coleman. And a striker to replace the misfiring Jelavic. But what did Moyes do? Buy another full back, young enough to play in the Under-18s. And probably destined to play in that useless academy.

Players who should be considered to leave at the end of the season clear out:

Howard
Neville
Hibbert
Heitinga
Osman
Naismith
Anichebe
Vellios
Jelavic.

John Nelson
97 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:36:59
If the pathetic match report wasn't bad enough then some of the remarks from the tits on here make it even more foolish. We got beat by a Man Utd team at Old Trafford that are on their way to set a points and goals record for fucks sake, not exactly anything to be embarrassed about is it?

I agree the goals conceded were a bit shit - Heitinga unbelieveably at fault for the first goal at least - and some players were below par (Pienaar for example), however Everton weren't "toothless" as the match report suggests.

Did anyone not think that Man Utd actually defended superbly? Watch every time we attacked, they pretty much had two lines of four in the way of us. The difference then was them being able to break at pace with world class players like Rooney and Van Persie being able to turn defence into attack at the push of a button.

As for the slur about us "dreaming" of top four... Again, fuck off. Why can't we dream? We are six points behind Tottenham, not exactly a fucking disaster is it?

Also given the fact we have again spent pretty much FUCK ALL AGAIN then to be in the reckoning still in February for top four is not exactly something to be ashamed about.

I wish, pray and hope for the best for the Blues but some of you on here need to have a fucking reality check - probably starting with some of you going to a fucking game for once.

Unlucky today Blues, still fucking love you.

Steavey Buckley
98 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:46:30
And Hitzlsperger as well for the anticipated clear out at the end of the season.
James Martin
99 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:48:24
Steavey Buckley dear me, the Osman/Neville combination kept us up and around 4th spot and outplayed teams such as Newcastle, Liverpool and Swansea. how were they the worst in the premier league? What evidence do you have to back that up? Its just a ridiculous assertion based on the fact that both are a bit unfashionable regardless of what they actually do when they are on the football field.

Congratulations for naming the majority of the first team in your out list as well. So that would be our best striker and one of our best midfielders this season out for the scrap heap then?

Gary Clark
100 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:44:52
I blame the board. Our team was crying out for at least two really good additions this January to push on for fourth, okay we bought the kid, but what for because Moyes doesn't want to give youth a chance.

Sorry to say Heitinga runs like he is towing a caravan, I have arthritic knees and a pot belly but could still take him over 50 metres.

Oh and I would chew glass and boil my head to play for Everton. A lot of our players are just turning up and getting minted.... put a shift in FFS.

Chris Corn
101 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:43:56
Today was poor, but really it is a culmination of the points we have continually thrown away recently. A pattern emerges when we actually have something to aim for and we revert to negative, tentative, dour football and the results are what we are seeing recently.

It's all very well going on 20-game unbeaten runs when the prize is a 7th or 8th place finish and there is no pressure, as has happened over the last three years. We need to do it now.

I'm sure the focus will be on the fact we can't spend £20 million per transfer window and any shortcomings of the coaching staff will be justified.

There is still time to make this season memorable, but unfortunately I just foresee the same old sob stories.

Time to justify your 'reputation' Moyesy, starting at Boundary Park next week.

Amit Vithlani
102 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:47:20
Jeez post no 120 hopefully none of the powers that be are listening to you. Big Vic - one bad game and we need to ship him out? You are having a laugh. Vellios hasn't been given game time, give the lad a break. Lets see him in action before making rash decisions.

I wouldn't sell Jelly or Ossie either, but that is a matter of opinion. Both are good players going through a bad patch. I remember Jags had a dodgy patch last season, couldn't get a game ahead of JH. Distin too. Both have come good. Can't disagree with the rest of your list, mind you, although don't see it happening.

Sam Fitzsimmons
103 Posted 10/02/2013 at 19:32:39
Today's game began with Everton 20 points behind Utd, so the result didn't come as any real surprise. The strength and depth of the united squad is something we can only dream of and then there's SAF, by far the most successful manager on the planet. Nevertheless, still hoped we'd get something from the game.

The lack of expectation though meant that I could watch the game with a little more objectivity than usual and too be honest I have to agree with most on TW: we were shite. At times we'd lots of possession but we're no Barcelona, we'd a couple of chances in front of goal, which you'd rather have Van Persie or Rooney on the end of instead of Anichebe, Osman or Jelavic. We'd a few Utd attacks to defend and you could only wish we'd Vidic or Evans instead of Heitinga.

I'm not going to knock Moyes, because I suspect he knows more than me and chooses who he thinks is the best team from the pool of players he has... BUT I do think Moyes lack of confidence in his bench is having a detrimental effect on older players like, Pienaar, Osman even Baines.

The sharpness, the creativity the energy, the spontaneity they had at the start of the season is gone, what they offer at the moment is experience. What's on the bench may be lacking the experience but I wish Moyes was a little more adventurous from the bench and sacrifice the experience for the rest. Well here's hoping its onwards and upwards for the rest of the season.

Peter Laing
104 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:03:28
John leave the dreaming to Blue Bill, he's living the dream his dream at the expense of Everton FC and its loyal fans.
Phil Rodgers
105 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:56:27
We were shit today, John, and if people can't vent their disappointment on an Everton website then where shall we do it?

And what the fuck does going to the game have to do with anything? Does that stop people caring? Really grinds my gears when people say shit like that. I have a mortgage and 2 kids and live in Rotherham on a low income. I was also made redundant last year. I would be a pretty selfish twat if I travelled up to Liverpool every other week.

Steavey Buckley
106 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:55:42
"'Steavey Buckley dear me, the Osman/Neville combination kept us up and around 4th spot and outplayed teams such as""

Newcastle, Home 2:2. (2 pts dropped) Both their goals came from the Neville/ Osman partnership.

Liverpool Home 2:2. (2 points dropped) Where is the midfield when things go amiss?

Swansea. Home 0:0 (2 points dropped) And Osman missed a sitter in front of goal with his head.

That's 6points, the difference now between Everton and Spurs.

""how were they the worst in the premier league? What evidence do you have to back that up? Its just a ridiculous assertion based on the fact that both are a bit unfashionable regardless of what they actually do when they are on the football field.""

In all the games I have seen this season, without Piennar and Baines (especially Baines) there was not much from anywhere else once Mirallas got injured. And is still finding his way back after a go, stop, go, stop, go season.

"'Congratulations for naming the majority of the first team in your out list as well. So that would be our best striker and one of our best midfielders this season out for the scrap heap then?""


Howard has been criticised all season.

Hibbet has hardly played

Neville is thinking of retiring

Heitnga is a liabilty.

Naismith is not EPL standard (more like SPL.)

Osman is pushed aside too easily leaving gaps in midfield.

Anichebe can't put a good run of games together over a season (lack of consistency

Velios hardly plays even as sub (seems to have gone backwards football wise.)

Jelavic has stopped scoring goals (that's why he is picked and paid.)

Hitzlsperger: Why sign a player who does not play?

Brent Stephens
107 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:15:18
Steavey, what's your calculation of how much we'd rake in by selling that lot? 10 million total? 20? I wonder where we're going to find another 10 players to replace that lot, for the 10/20 million.
Phil Sammon
108 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:19:23
So surely it's Moyes that you really want to see the back of, Steavey?
Lol McNally
109 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:17:21
Forget the players, Mr Moyes has played at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, and The Emirates/Highbury... played 48: won 0 in the Premier League. Say no more.

Today's display... well, it's not getting beat, but *how* you get beat. Mr Moyes will never be Man Utd manager as he is not good enough.

Mike Oates
110 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:05:33
Lets get real, Man Utd are the best team by a country mile, and by team I mean any team they put out from their 20 odd Internationals they have - 4 world class strikers, and 4 midfielders from Valencia, Giggs, Cleverley, Carrick, Jones, Anderson, Young, Scholes and 4 defenders from a pool of about 7 internationals.

We have a good first 11 and then basically Heitinga (lost it), Oviedo, Hitzlsperger (a crock), and about 5 untried youngsters.

We just cannot expect our players to play 38 games at a consistent "Top 4" level, Osman, Pienaar, Baines, Neville are clearly goosed, and Gibson, Mirallas, Coleman are not fit.

Whilst we have a chance of getting into Europe (CL! or Europa) or winning the FA Cup Moyes cannot give the likes of Duffy, Stones, Barkley, McAleny a chance. We'll only likely to see them if we fail in our attempts to get into Europe. He'll have to play them then as I'm sure the likes of Fellaini, Heitinga and maybe even Baines will leave.

John Nelson
111 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:09:39
Phil - my point about going the game stems from the fact that a lot of fans on this website seem to think that every time we don't win and win well that everything is doom and gloom, and more so that we have some sense of entitlement to glory - is this not an affiliation not too dissimilar to our loveable neighbours across the park? I.e. of whom who's fans generally are of the tellyclapping ilk?

Furthermore I've grew up with generally seeing Everton being shite, and I first started going the game properly during the days of Mr Disappointed - so in my personal opinion I can tell you that under Moyes we are a hell of a lot better. There has also been numerous occasions were I genuinely have questioned whether Moyes should do one, as he has well and truly deserved criticism on a good few times. But overall, and especially this season, I would defintely rather have him than not.

As for your point that we were shit, I disagree. We weren't at our best, but we weren't shit, and certainly not as bad as some are making out on here.

As for your situation I totally understand and sorry to hear of your redundancy.

James Martin
112 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:16:30
Steavey, I meant the Swansea away game you know the crushing 3 - 0 at a really good footballing side. As for the Newcastle game it was lost because the defense couldn't deal with one long ball and Howard made an error for the first one, how is that the midfields fault? Equally with Liverpool we conceded from a dead ball an an unlucky deflection but then proceeded to dominate the rest of the game.

As ever, you only look at goals and try and blame the midfield for it. We made mistakes at the start of the season that costs us points undoubtedly, but as a makeshift pairing you can't say they were the worst in the league, the results prove you wrong. If they were we'd be down at the bottom because we sure as hell can't defend and none of the strikers seem to be able to score. Unless you're part of the club that thinks Marouane peerlessly carries the entire 11 through every single game.

Some of those players you name are good but out of form, funnily enough if you buy other players they will have good days and then days when they're out of form. how about a system were we just change players every season showing no loyalty whatsoever to ensure that players are always in top form.

Sell Howard, get in who for a similar price who is better? Sell Hibbert for buttons probably and who fills that spot? With what cash? If Neville's retiring why get rid of a squad player who is still made us of? Why get rid of Jelavic, could you not hear the away fans chanting for him today? He was in some great positions again but as ever no-one picked him out, he looked so much better with Naismith in behind him but I'm sure as ever the untuchable Marouane will be upfront again next week clogging up all our creative play but rectifying it by scoring from a corner.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
113 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:31:31
So that's your analysis, is it, Mr Nelson? To justify your despicable comment about "not going to the fucking game for once," you say that Evertonians posting on here are in effect a bunch of kopites. Well, you just toasted your goose, sunshine.
Steavey Buckley
114 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:24:29
"'Steavey, what's your calculation of how much we'd rake in by selling that lot? ""

Players that I earmarker for the clear out are considerations. Not definites

It's about making a judgment.

We are told certain players in the academy should be given a chance.

Oviedo
Stones
Barkley are considered as strong candidates.

Stones will be good cover for Coleman and Mirallas

Oviedo can be good cover for both Pienaar and Baines

Barkley should replace Osman to give midfield more strength and power

Next season, much more money is available from Sky tv.

Pardew has shown you can buy bargains from the French league.

Then there is the Dutch and Belgium leagues.

It really is about having good scouts on the look out.

Everton big need is for a goal keeper who can come out and catch the ball

A centre back if Duffy can't step up to the plate

And 2 strikers who can score goals.

John Daley
116 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:42:40
James Martin,

"Its just a ridiculous assertion based on the fact that both are a bit unfashionable regardless of what they actually do when they are on the football field".

Unfashionable? Try unproductive. Pienaar has been woefully out of form for a couple of months and Osman has reverted to type by following a brief hot streak with an extended period of looking like he's running through a swamp with two 'space hoppers' strapped to his feet.

How many times did these two players needlessly give the ball away today? How many times did they go to ground? How many times did they lose out in a 50/50 challenge? Osman was left trailing in Ryan Giggs wake like he was the Flash, not a fucking 39-year-old.

You obviously have some ingrained personality trait that predisposes you to 'go against the grain' & champion the maligned. Hence your constant praising of Neville, Osman and Pienaar and your never ending bollock-stamping on Baines & Fellaini. Seriously, it seems like every single post you make turns into a Fellaini slagging session. We get it. He winds you up. You think he's hopelessly overrated and puts in shit performances. I feel the same about James Corden but I don't use every single conversation as an opportunity to rip into the repulsive, annoyingly unfunny fat fucker. Now it seems Baines has joined Fellaini on your shit list.

This duo may not be as good as some Evertonians proclaim, but they are by far the two most talented & influential players in this current team. If you would rather a team full of solid pros in the mould of 'Pip' & 'Ossie', than a team full of potential match winners like Fellaini & Baines then you obviously see the game a different way to myself.

Niall Hussey
117 Posted 10/02/2013 at 20:57:04
Anyone see Moyes' post-match interview? He said he had no idea why our defence was so high up the pitch for their second because "we don't coach playing that high up the field".

Proof of Moyes' keep-it-safe policy right there. I mean, pushing your defence upfield should be the very first thing the team covers if they have any aspirations of attacking & winning games at all.

Beyond sick of him & he needs to go. I'd happily swap a year or two of mid-table with decent cup runs if it means Barkley, Kennedy, Hope, Duffy, Velios & Oviedo got a fair crack at reaching their undoubted potential.

Damian Braithwaite
119 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:31:58
Shows you how much United wanted and SAF wanted to win, he played his strongest team which goes to show how how far we have come. A couple of seasons ago he would have played his reserves against us, we are a better team now and true to what Moyes said in the race for fourth spot, there will be blips on the way.

It's no disgrace to be beaten by a side that is running away with the league, so everyone needs to get real. Jelavic looked lively when he came on and as game pans out he will get chances unlike Anichebe who will only get one chance a game, sits on his arse for the rest because for a big lad he's not strong enough to stay on his feet when he goes in for challenges.

Moyes did cock up here because I believe we play better football when Jelavic starts but we missed a chance in the transfer window to inject some competition for midfield and attack.

Steavey Buckley
121 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:41:57
James Martin: Football is about perception.

In games I saw this seaon, Neville was not able to quickly move the ball forward. Instead, either moved it sideways, then back and eventually found Howard. Who then hoofed it up field as a 50/50 ball that usually favoured the opposing defence.

Osman was often caught out in midfield which gave the opposition plenty of time to launch an attack, thus giving the impetuous and confidence to the other side.

Stan Sheppard
122 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:46:55
The damage was done in the draws we have had earlier this season.

We should be miles better off. Newcastle at home, Fulham away, Wigan away all games we should have won. Norwich, Swansea and Villa poor performances at home which cost us points. 12 to be exact.

Its just very frustrating as we have not done ourselves justice over the past 4 or 5 weeks.

Gavin Ramejkis
124 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:53:35
It was like the end of an old Scooby Doo episode, the same old terrified shite, defend at all costs, rely on out of form or past it players despite weeks of poor performances, the only thing missing was Moyes being unmasked as the baddie at the end saying "if it wasn't for you Sky four teams I am shit scared off........"

Normal service is resumed.

Steavey Buckley
125 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:53:42
"'As usual, once Fellaini came up against a top class centre-back, ""

The game I saw today, Jones in midfield picked up Fellaini.

Why? Because SAF knows that Fellaini is about the blues best attacking option.
Since Jelavic stopped scoring goals, which is a big worry.

So, in fact, Fellaini was marked by 2 players, which would not have happened if the blues had a real other goal scorer.

Colin Wainwright
126 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:05:14
John Daley. Fuckin' spot on.
Brian Waring
127 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:06:39
Steavey, what Ferguson did was get Jones to man mark Fellaini.
Patrick Murphy
128 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:08:32
Where's Tony Marsh to add a little perspective to this debate?
James Martin
130 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:56:54
John I've never said that Neville is better than Baines or Fellaini or anything to that liking. You are right in the sense that I do have a streak in me that wants to defend those that are, in my eyes, unfairly attacked. Osman and Pienaar deserve any criticism levelled at them on the basis of this one game, they were both woeful. But I will stand up for them when people try and make out that they've been dragging us down for years and such, its blatantly wrong. If you prefer different styles of players then fine but why disregard the ocntributions they've made to the club. I defended Neville against Steavey's attacks not because he's a great player but because when he was called upon to do a job he did not make up half of the worst midfield pairing in the premier league. The results prove that to be erroneous yet I'm made out to be some sort of eccentric for pointing this out.

All I want is fairness and consistency when judging players but this site does not seem to possess any. I don't like Fellaini, that much is obvious, but I wouldn't go on about it as much if there wasn't so much deluded hero worship of him. I applauded him in the home game v Man U because he was outstanding, as he was at Fulham away. Other games he's been absolutely terrible. He never gets called for it though. We gave him years to settle in yet can't give the same to Naismith. He's missed loads of sitters for us that have cost us points yet its Osman and Pienaar that get called for when they do it. He gives the ball away more than a lot of players in the team yet its Jelavic that the groans start for if he has a bad touch. I think he makes us play a bad brand of football and doesn't have the pace to make it to the top of the game. In games like this against an aerially dominant centreback he's largely useless and contributed nothing but where is the criticism of him? Its muted becaus ehe's built up a bank of credit for performances this season. This bank doesn't seem to exist for Pienaar, Osman or Jelavic though does it?

Equally with Baines, i've called him the premier leagues best left back on here because I genuinely think he is. But I also think he has a problem with his mentality in big games. He didn't play well today but people would rather gloss over it and just blame Heitinga. Heitinga deserves blame but by equal token so does Baines.

Dominic Bobadilla
131 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:52:29
John Nelson is the paragon of a certain breed of scousers: assume an air of self-righteous indignation, sprinkle it with some working class bravado, indicate your local roots in a seemingly offhand manner, and you will have accumulated enough moral high ground to call the naysayers "tits" and "foolish."

The second half was a true embarrassment. What Manchester United carried out today was a controlled demolition.

Harold Matthews
132 Posted 10/02/2013 at 21:09:53
Jags had a tremendous game and Howard also did well. Wish I could say the same about their team-mates but I can't. They were very disappointing. I am not the slightest bit interested in earlier this season, last season or the one before. Recent form is all that matters and that goes for all sports.

Reading the various posts it would seem that a lack of strength in depth is forcing Moyes to use the same players, week-in, week-out, when one or two look pretty well burnt out. Of course we will never know why he prefers not to take a chance on younger squad members, especially when we see 17-year-olds performing well for Swansea and Southampton, but he'll have his reasons.

Steavey Buckley
133 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:21:37
Playing Heitinga may have been Everton's only option once Distin pulled out, but Man united were more confident facing Heitinga than Distin. No wonder they soon went quickly into a 2:0 lead and stayed that way to the end without getting out of 3rd gear.
Brent Stephens
134 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:22:01
James Martin, for what it's worth, mate, I think you're one of the most balanced posters on TW. I'm not saying some observations might not be debatable, but it sure beats the two camps of "see no evil" and "see no good" regardless of events.
Steavey Buckley
135 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:25:30
""Sell Howard, get in who for a similar price who is better?""
There must be a goal keeper somewhere at the right price who is not fazed when coming out for a high ball.

"'Sell Hibbert for buttons probably and who fills that spot? ""

How many right backs do you want?
There is 2 at moment, Stones and Coleman

""Why get rid of Jelavic,""
He can't score goals.
The same situation for a goal kicker in Rugby union who can put the ball often enough between the 2 posts

"'Naismith in behind him""
Did you watch him and Naismith against Southhampton?
I go the impression they never knew each other before that match.

Colin Wainwright
136 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:29:04
Deluded hero worship? The lad is still the best player we posess, even with three opposing players trying to mark him out of every game. Some people wont be happy until Fellaini's gone. I think you'll get your wish soon. Still got ozzie though eh?
Dominic Bobadilla
137 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:34:29
177: Was it Jelavic who convinced Moyes of the great qualities of Naismith, thus prompting Everton to sign this thing posing as a fooballer?

Jelavic described "Naismith as the best attacking partner he has had in his career."

What does that tell you about Jelavic?

Steavey Buckley
138 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:40:05
"'I defended Neville against Steavey's attacks not because he's a great player but because"" The blame goes to Moyes for not replacing Rodwell with an adequate midfield replacement when Gibson was injured. Although you could blame FIFA for scuppering the loan signing for a lad from Belgium.
Andy Crooks
139 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:47:58
Damian #155, you think that it shows how far we have come that Ferguson plays his strongest team against us?

How low have we sunk ?

Chris Butler
140 Posted 10/02/2013 at 22:44:01
I think we can effectively give up on Champions League football after that performance. The problem is that Big Vic isn't really good enough to be put up front of his own against United away particuarly when he doesn't get any service. Pienaar continues to believe he's a central midfielder rather than work the wings and help Baines. Heitenga has no confidence; you can see that the 1st goal was ridiculous, the 2nd goal was avoidable.

We've played poorly in 2013 the 2 useless draws against Southampton and Swansea ended our top 4 challenge. You have to take your chances we get chances and don't take them.

Paul Ferry
141 Posted 10/02/2013 at 23:21:36
John Nelson (143) thanks for clearing everything up with this post:
'My point about going the game stems from the fact that a lot of fans on this website seem to think that every time we don't win and win well that everything is doom and gloom, and more so that we have some sense of entitlement to glory – is this not an affiliation not too dissimilar to our loveable neighbours across the park? i.e. of whom whose fans generally are of the tellyclapping ilk?'

WTF does that mean? Please put me/us in the light? I'm fairly smart, I think, and it seems to mean people who don't go to the match regularly coz they do not live overseas, for instance, do not 'have an affiliation not too dissimilar to our loveable neighbours across the park?'.

Have I got it now? Is that what you meant? If not, then please say something coherent and not your fucking stupid link between Evertonians who watch at home are more like the twats over the park than those who go to the match. Because that is the only streak of an argument that I can see in this last post.

Peter Jones
142 Posted 10/02/2013 at 23:04:28
Maybe if we actually took care of business against the weaker sides and killed games off, this one wouldn't hurt so much. No shame losing to the best team in England on their home ground. The criticism of Moyes to play the younger players is completely justified though. Our central midfield is threadbare and what do we do? Loan out Barkley, (who has scored 4 goals in the championship for 2 different sides in less than 2 months mind you) and then the board fails to capitalize on a big opportunity to upgrade the squad in the one season we have a legitimate chance to challenge for the 4th spot.

Back to our youth. If our academy is so highly rated and respected, how are all of our players just not ready to play against premier league sides? Hope Akpan was a castoff of ours that wasn't even considered for Everton and dishes out 2 assists in a rare Reading win his first game! Why did we buy Oviedo? He's can play winger or fullback and has CHAMPIONS LEAGUE experience. Naismith is a support striker with no pace. Moyes him plays him out wide at the expense of Oviedo, an actual wide player. As for Shane Duffy, I'm sure if he actually played, he wouldn't be directly responsible for 5 of our last 6 goals conceded in a 3 game span, like a certain Dutchman I know of.

As for the game, I would say that Mirallas was simply not aggressive enough and it was pretty embarrassing to see him actually defer to Neville passing backwards, rather than taking defenders on and making his presence felt. However, his worst day is much better than Naismith's best out wide and there was no reason for him to be subbed off in a game we are chasing. Whenever Naismith is subbed in, it should be to replace Osman.

That way, Fellaini can drop back to a position he can play (box-to-box center mid) and Naismith can play as a support striker, his natural position. At least that would make sense. Manchester United defended us very well. They had quite a few blocks when we were providing some pressure on their goal. On a positive note, Jagielka was excellent. So often, he swooped in to clean up a mess Heitinga made by having crap position.

Gareth Fieldstead
144 Posted 10/02/2013 at 23:40:29
I cannot believe some of the remarks on here, for large sections of that game we dominated. Two soft goals and little threat up front, that was the difference.

We missed the two type of players that Moyes tried to sign. We had numerous chances, we just didn't take them, end of.

John Nelson was right on every point. I live in Australia now, I spend around £400 a year on merchandise to try and show my support, I still do not class myself as a proper fan though. That's people like John who put their money were their mouth is and genuinely support the club.

It used to annoy the crap out of me after games in the pub or at work "fans" putting the club down when it turned out they hadn't set foot inside Goodison for years. So sorry to offend Michael but, yes, that is Kopite behavior.

Before today's game we had lost only 3 games, the same as Utd. As for having a go at Moyes over the cup final, really? We had lost to injury the best centre back in the country, a playmaker in the form of his career and our leading goalscorer. Would Chelsea have beaten us if we had a full strength team and they had of had Terry, Lampard an Drogba missing, no chance. Please some of you on here get real.

Michael Kenrick
145 Posted 11/02/2013 at 00:14:55
Gareth, it is abhorrent when Evertonians find the need engage in this oneupmanship to judge the way others support the club. It is divisive and despicable; but when they do it by invoking those kopite bastards from across the park, that crosses a line. As you just have.
Terry McLavey
148 Posted 11/02/2013 at 04:43:59
Did we have a shot at goal?! I think we should look after the environment and save the coach diesel for the away matches at United, Chelsea and Liverpool — or maybe just bend over in the dressing room!
Dave White
149 Posted 11/02/2013 at 08:28:02
We were schooled yesterday I'm afraid. Anyone who's has played saturday footy or 5 a side will know that it happens sometimes that you just come up against a team that is better than yours and you have to hold your hands up.

I didn't see a lack of effort yesterday I saw a gulf in class, and in modern day football more than ever money buys class. It is the points we've dropped against weaker teams that will do for our top 4 challenge, not against a team who will surely win this league, and at a canter. It is for that reason I feel that some on here are overreacting.

However this defeat is the culmination of a poor run of form and in that respect the more extreme sentiments are understandable.

It ain't over til it's over, and ever the (blind and irrational) optimist I'll still believe until the bitter end.

Brian Waring
150 Posted 11/02/2013 at 08:51:59
Gareth (#199) just because you live in Australia doesn't make you any less of a fan than John Nelson who goes the game, as long as your passionate about the club and it hurts like fuck when we lose, then in my book your as much an Evertonian as John.
Harold Matthews
151 Posted 11/02/2013 at 08:25:52
Peter Jones. Very good post indeed. Excellent points throughout. Wish I could say the same about other posts but I can't. Too many people trying to prove, in a sarcastic manner, that they are smarter than someone else.
Kevin Tully
152 Posted 11/02/2013 at 09:15:41
We are all kidding ourselves if we believe that the managers contract situation is not affecting performances.

If you look back on his press conferences, interviews and general demeanor, Moyes is a beaten man. Now don't say he he goes into that dressing room and changes into Jose Mourinho, because I have never set eyes on a more miserable looking / sounding bastard in football.

I don't blame him for being pissed off after the transfer window - but he is being paid far too much to let events translate onto on-field matters.

He is the manager who has held onto certain players for years on end, instead of selling them and bringing in a more vibrant, younger first team. He has total control over who comes and goes, that is why we find ourselves with one of the oldest first teams in the division.

A message to Moyes - if you are going, fine, let the Chairman know so we can find a replacement, maybe we can find someone who has some balls, and maybe his replacement will crack a smile once a year.

£63m a season in wages, a team full of Internationals, a manager on a £4m salary, it's not exactly the fucking budget of a relegation threatened club.

John Audsley
153 Posted 11/02/2013 at 10:36:16
Spot on Brian @ 242

We are all the same in my book and always will be.

Gareth, you say your not a proper blue!!!!!!

Unbelievable comment

Tom Bowers
154 Posted 11/02/2013 at 10:33:35
Dominating a game means absolutely nothing. Goals do!
United came out on fire and showed purpose and determination even with 40 year olds like Giggs. The writing was on the wall early when Everton started giving the ball away cheaply
and being weak in the tackle. Sadly this has been the tone for a while but Moyes sticks with his favourites no matter what.
Cannot believe how stubborn he is not using the likes of Oveido and Velios etc.
This week could be the defining week for all Evertonians as with yesterday's poor performance.
the possibilty of a cup exit and Redshite climbing above the Blues by next Sunday with 2 home victories.
As usual it may all come down to beating Redshite in May just to remember the season by.
Paul Dark
155 Posted 11/02/2013 at 10:27:05
Moyes is a good buyer of players - but a poor tactician and very poor at picking the team, not to mention timing and selecting the right substitutions. His self-sabotaging predilection for certain players (Naismith and Osman at present) is shocking and has always crippled the club. He shows a marked reluctance to show faith in young players who have performed well (e.g. Duffy). He is also less loyal, I sense, than the Moyes ideologues make him out to be.

Essentially, as man and manager, he lacks courage and intelligence, not to mention sensitivity (unlike, say, Howard Kendall - who is in a quite different league as man and manager). For a man of conspicuously limited talent, though, he as done very well, indeed - for himself and for us.

I think we are beginning to see, in ever sharper focus, the effects of his strengths and weaknesses.

James Martin
156 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:43:32
'For a man of conspicuously llimited talent, though, he has done very well, indeed - for himself and for us' - You don't get lucky over 12 years Paul. He's either talented hence why he's done well, or he's not. Its a difficult one to argue though that despite him doing well you consider him short of talent.
Paul Dark
157 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:49:52
James - he's never won anything in his life, and he's always come up (conspicuously) short in big domestic and European Cup games. I stand hard by my statement but (disagreeingly) appreciate the counter-view.
Brian Waring
158 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:50:16
Well, a neutral point of view from a lad who I have been working with this morning (he's an Aldershot fan) his view was that we just didn't look up for it and some of the players looked like they didn't want to be there.
Brian Waring
159 Posted 11/02/2013 at 11:53:22
James, is it a talent not winning at any of the top clubs in his time with us?
Craig Walker
160 Posted 11/02/2013 at 12:53:24
We paid them too much respect as we nearly always do. I don't think this United team is as great as they think they are. The fact that they beat us at a canter speaks volumes. They could have rested 7 or 8 and still won.

It was like men against boys yesterday.

I think Victor has done well this season but yesterday he was back to the cliche of sitting on turf, slapping the floor and gesticulating for a foul whilst the play continued. I can't stand that attitude. Get back on your feet lad and win it back FFS!

Osman is a neat and tidy footballer and has been good for Everton down the years but in these games he is ineffectual and his brushed off the ball too easily.

Neville shouldn't be on the pitch. He consistently fouls and gives the ball away. You can't have players against top teams who lose possession and give silly fouls away so easily.

Pienaar keeps stopping play and letting teams get back. It infuriates. A couple of times yesterday we got into good positions and he stopped, came inside and we lost momentum.

Baines was off form yesterday and so was Fellaini.

Gibson was solid but kept going sideways.

Howard did well. Needs to work on his ball distribution though.

Mirallas tried hard but things just didn't come off for him and he looked rusty.

Jags was my MotM but relinquished possession too easily with his hoofball.

Heitinga. Shite inga. We should stay away from Dutch players!

Paul Andrews
161 Posted 11/02/2013 at 13:45:50
The issue is not about being beaten at Old Trafford. The issue is with mug punters who allow themselves to be lulled into thinking we could get 4th with a paper-thin squad, a manager who will always revert to type, and a chairman and board who have not given the club 1p between them since taking over.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Blues.

Tom Bowers
162 Posted 11/02/2013 at 13:51:17
These last few comments hit the nail on the head precisely about Moyes and the bottom line is that he has won nothing. Perhaps he could win something at a big money club but that remains to be seen.

He has served his apprenticeship in the Prem at Everton's expense and I sincerely believe it's time for him to go. If he goes sooner than later I do fear that he, like many managers do, take some players with them and these may be the likes of Jags,Fellaini and Baines.

God only knows how poor Moyes thinks Oviedo, Duffy and Vellios are if they are overlooked in favour of Anichebe, Naismith and Heitinga.

Bill Gall
163 Posted 11/02/2013 at 13:49:38
After listening to comments from AF and DM after the game it was obvious that AF was not worried about Everton and he showed that he had little respect for Everton in saying he only decided to put out his strongest team after the Man City result on Saturday meant they had a better chance of going 12 points clear with a win against Everton.

One of Moyes's better qualities was his ability to recognize the opposition's weaknesses and exploit them; what he is not seeing and is now failing to do is, recognize that opposition managers are doing the same and he has no Plan B. The game yesterday showed this as Man Utd stopped the Fellaini threat and Baines & Pienaar and Moyes had no answer to that — he must have known what was going to happen.

James Martin
165 Posted 11/02/2013 at 14:44:36
Yeah Peter he probably has enjoyed it considering he's spent all season on the bench. Of course Lampard won't be tired, its mid-October in his mind. He also plays in a team that shares around the workload and doesn't just rely on two or three players to create everything for them in every match.
Brian Dagnall
166 Posted 11/02/2013 at 14:44:00
Forgive me I'm a bit late coming to this thread but I do agree with John Nelson Post 121. A very strange game to watch for me. Man U were at home but they played 4- 5-1 against Everton including man-marking Fellaini, and doubling up Rooney/Evra against Moralles/Neville, and using Valencia/Rafael against Baines/Piennar. Valencia was rarely an attacking threat, he knew his job.

To me it shows Ferguson was very cautious and in fact defensive in his approach, showing great respect for what Everton might do. But his plan worked perfectly, and we couldn't break out of their grip. And they scored two awful goals from an Everton point of view, and then held out very strongly. Which goalie made the (admittedly few) saves? Not ours for sure.

I have been critical of many of our players in the past but I'm not sure they deserve it on this occasion. They played poorly at times because Man U wouldn't allow us to play our game. Fair dos to them they blanked us.

Like in Tennis nowadays, Federer plays lousy because Djokavic pressures him into errors. Give credit to the winner, don't automatically lambast the loser.

Brian Wilkinson
167 Posted 11/02/2013 at 15:24:31
A few differences of opinions on here so pretty certain some of my comments will hit home with some but not others. One point made on here is "Give the youngsters a chance" and others have said, "Do you think Moyes would leave them on the bench if they were better?"

Well, a couple of instances spring to mind: the first being the Capital One League Cup, Moyes brought Garbutt on at half-time, he never put a foot wrong and looked confident on the ball. The following round, against Leeds, he never even got a run out and pretty sure he never even got on the subs bench... Another being Vellios, nearly every time he has played he's made an impact, as does Oviedo.

Jelavic seems out of sorts and that could be down to Fellaini playing more advanced; it could be worth dropping Fellaini back and either playing Naismith in his favoured position alongside Jelavic or go all out with Jelavic and Vellios in attack.Heitinga is costing goals and I agree — how can Duffy do any worse than a player making mistakes and goals coming from the mistakes?

I've said it before, Moyes has players he simply will not drop for whatever reason: Fellaini suspended and straight back in the team after a ban (now wait til I finish): a few seasons ago, Beckford gets stuck in traffic and late for the cup game — that was it for Beckford, even after scoring that goal against Chelsea.

The point I'm making is: had Neville or the like been the one stuck in traffic, would they have been treated like Beckford? Not a chance. It's time the likes of Duffy, Stones, Oviedo, Barkley and Vellios were given a chance — and not just for half a game. People said Barkley had his chance and looked ordinary. That was one game; give the kid a chance and not judge him on one performance.

Tom Bowers
168 Posted 11/02/2013 at 17:06:04
Everton needed to be at their best to have had any chance against Manure and they were far from it right from the off.
Ferguson has a team containing players who are world class strikers even apart from Rooney and Van Persie so what chance did we have with Anichebe and an out of sorts Jelavic.
On top of that I have always said that we get very few goals from midfield and that contributes to our downfall not just in this match.
It is time to use the young bench players as it is for sure the current starters are not going to carry us through to a Champions league place.
Craig Walker
169 Posted 11/02/2013 at 17:11:37
Brian #368 - Absolutely spot on observation.

Neville should have been dropped after doing that patheic dive in the mersey derby. It completely discredited our holier than thou attitude. He could put in for the next series of Splash when hopefully time is called on his playing career.

I'd take Beckford over Naismith any day of the week.

Some players must be good in training or have evidence of Moyes in an umcompromising situation.

Peter Jones
170 Posted 11/02/2013 at 18:19:04
Just today, Moyes was talking about how maybe the reason we only put half of a season together is because of tiredness in a small squad. I would agree with his stance if he actually played Barkley, Oviedo, Hitz, Vellios, Francisco Junior, Naismith (in his proper position), and Duffy to spell our best 11.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to see EVERY young guy play and empty the bench. What I would like to see is 1 or 2 players from our best 11 given a rest when needed in favor of our younger players to give them some confidence/experience. Every top manager does that. There was a time when SAF didn't have billions to splurge on world class talent. He has always had the balls to play his younger players with the hope of uncovering a hidden gem in the process. Wenger too.

If Jack Wilshere was an Everton player, he'd be warming the bench because Moyes would be afraid of him making mistakes, as if every player doesn't make them regardless of age. Our squad isn't THAT small. Moyes just doesn't have the faith in our bench to play them, even though he bought most of them after scouting them. It's a peculiar situation indeed.

Colin Glassar
171 Posted 11/02/2013 at 19:13:31
Craig Walker — did Naismith play yesterday? Was he that dyed blonde haired fella who spent a few mins jogging up and down the pitch looking lost?

Ian Smitham
175 Posted 11/02/2013 at 20:12:41
Just got in from the Gym. Noticed Moyes and Neville discussing yesterday but there was no sound on. Prentice has just commented on Twitter about Moyes facial expressions as they talked. Anyone else seen it and what were they saying please?
Max Murphy
176 Posted 11/02/2013 at 20:32:04
Absolutely spot-on, Peter @426. We are now left with one of the oldest starting 11s in the league. Moyes has refused to bring in youth or untried players from the bench.

My concern is how do the rest of the players feel when Moyes continually plays out-of-form players. It must have an effect on them. They cannot be happy watching Heitinga have terrible games every time he is selected, and maybe it's affecting their own game. We know Heitinga is playing the worst football of his life, but he does not select himself — so the fault lies squarely with the manager. He persisted too long with Jelavic. When he comes off the bench, there's no difference to his form, and we then see Vellios pushed off the bench.

I just had a sinister thought: Maybe there's some clause in Moyes's contract that states he will remain with Everton if they qualify for the CL. Perhaps the deal with Man United is already done... as long as Everton don't reach the CL. That would certainly explain his absolute ridiculous team selections in the last half dozen games.

MOYES DOES NOT WANT EVERTON TO QUALIFY FOR THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE SO HE CAN BECOME THE NEW MANAGER OF MANCHESTER UNITED. I'll get me coat.

Andy Veitch
177 Posted 11/02/2013 at 20:58:05
So disappointed with the gutless performance.

Can Baines tackle? I'm not sure.

Why does Victor punch the ground when the ball is still in play giving the defender an easy time?

Has Osman's form dipped since playing for England?

Why does our left back take corners?Can't our "wingers" cross a ball?

Why do I support this club?

Lee Hind
178 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:25:46
Brian Dagnall #353 – spot on... I think SAF knew if he went toe to toe with attacking football, the result might go either way... so he adapted Utd to nullify our dangers. Utd have the players to do that to any team... I'm not sure you see Utd resort to a man marking job that often.

I wonder who on here, hand on heart, thought we would get anything other than beat at OT?

12 games to go... every chance of a top 5 finish... maybe more! :)

Ian Bennett
179 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:19:15
A couple of observations from me :-

Crossing into the box was terrible from all 4 of our wide players. Can no one ping in a decent flat cross in.

If jones is going to follow you all game, go and sit on the full back or Evans to create the space and send victor or mirallas to the gap. Basic stuff?

Heitinga is a liability and we need a new centre back - badly. It was 12 vs 10.

Moving fellaini back after jones went off was a mistake. The 2nd goal was a killer for us, with the 2nd half creating no chances and no possession up top. Vidic coming back for them was massive.

Colin Glassar
180 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:27:41
Max I totally agree with most of what you say except for the last bit. My particular conspiracy theory is that Moyes has been told we CAN'T afford CL football as it would require serious investment in the squad. Something which neither BK nor the board are willing to do.

Just think about it. In the summer we sell Bainsey and Fellaini for a combined £50m+. Plus £30-40m extra telly money that could be around £90-100m into the club. This is the perfect business plan. Plus Moyes leaving in disgust (another £4m saved). The new manager will be given £10-15m to spend and BK will be seen as a financial genius who has saved the club from ruin. It's perfect when you think about it.

Phil Rodgers
181 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:40:16
YES! COME ON WEST BROM!
Nick Entwistle
182 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:43:11
If we can't get 4th Colin, rather than Europe I'd take finishing above Liverpool. Their fans are leaving already.
David Hallwood
183 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:44:29
It's on occasions like these I wish I was at Mordor.
Kunal Desai
184 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:43:42
That goal was all down to Steve Clarke being positive, bringing of Dorrans and bringing on Lukaku. If it were Moyes we all know Heitinga would have been brought on for Anichebe or and offensive player
Dominic Bobadilla
185 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:35:38
"Maybe there's some clause in Moyes' contract that states he will remain with Everton if they qualify for the CL."

Gerrard missed the penalty as I was reading this startling revelation, which makes me think: by a sick twist of fate, we might just make it to CL all the while Moyes is doing his utmost to keep us out of it. That's what happens in the Greek tragedies. You do everything in your power to avoid something, but it proves impossible, because fate has decreed that it shall be so and not otherwise. I am more inclined to believe that Moyes is not extending his contract, because the board expects him to accept a pay-cut. If Moyes gets a better deal elsewhere, he will go. Money is the beginning and the end of all things. Money makes the world go around. WBA just scored.

David Hallwood
186 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:45:07
2-0 for thre baggies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phil Rodgers
187 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:40:49
YOU BEAUTY!!!!!!!!
Nick Entwistle
188 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:48:34
Yes Kunal, exactly what he did at Bolton. 2-1.
David Hallwood
189 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:48:34
Oh look at the Norwegians leaving early for the flight
Ian Bennett
190 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:48:43
Oh well it could be worst. No win against anyone in the top half. 2-0, super lukaku (his chance before was top class also :-).
David Hallwood
191 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:50:14
Rat boy's been booked it just keeps gettin better
Ian Bennett
192 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:50:27
Where's the crowd gone, hey YNWA.
Nick Entwistle
193 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:57:01
Mark Lawrenson is defending the no wins against top half with could won this coulda won that, and is just coincidence. Coincidence with what?
Kunal Desai
194 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:56:58
That's Bolton Nick, 1 game change in how many years of bringing a impact sub on? and it's Bolton not Arsenal, Utd, shite or chelsea.
Graham Mockford
195 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:55:11
I can already hear Rodgers press conference now.

"Well we're building for the long term with my footballing philosophy, there are definite signs of improvement, after all they gubbed us by three last time."

Gerry Quinn
196 Posted 11/02/2013 at 21:58:38
So much for the 3 points behind us and then overtake us shite that people were bragging about. That is why they have been fondly named the RED SHITE - because they are SHITE!
Gary Poole
197 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:00:46
Oh well... a comic last 10 minutes at Anfield lifts the gloom somewhat!
Ian Smitham
198 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:01:14
I queried on here a few days ago, What are the rules for CL qualification and also the Europa? Additionally, does it make any difference if the CL is won by a Premier League team? Does winning or losing the FA Cup Final alter anything?
Nick Entwistle
199 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:03:34
His subs turned round the Villa game, and Anichebe came on against Newcastle and scored the winner. Or are these too examples where Moyes does something but doesn't count? There's three examples in the last month. Go to bed.
Jamie Barlow
200 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:04:25
Is there any level some won't stoop to beat Moyes?

West Brom score against Liverpool and Moyes gets grief.

Incredible.

Nick Entwistle
201 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:12:33
I know Jamie, Lukaku on the bench - and comes on. Shocker!
Michael Winstanley
202 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:10:05
Yes that's right Nick, he waited until we were 3-1 down to bring off a defender who was having a shocker for a forward player. Genius mate. And as for turning it around, we were playing a team so poor and low in confidence that managing to turn it around resulted in a 3-3 draw, top result and you're right it's better than losing. These draws are what's keeping us in the hunt for CL.
Kunal Desai
203 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:10:19
Nick - your not understanding my point are you? the BIG sides, I have pointed those out, those teams which we haven't won at in 48 visits now. How come West brom can do it 2 years in a row. Not knocking Moyes but as he's witnessed the game being on the sky panel tongiht, surely he must take heed and learn.
Kunal Desai
204 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:14:15
Jamie - not giving Moyes grief, but he himself has witnessed this tonight in order to see how you win against the bigger sides away from home. Maybe it will happen in the up and coming fixtures.
Sam Hoare
205 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:16:19
West Brom were hardly positive tonight! They applied KITAP1 and it worked. If anything their approach was very Moyes-esque. Except it ended better.
Patrick Murphy
206 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:09:43
Ian, as I understand it, if Arsenal finish in 5th place and win the CL, they would – like Chelsea last year – qualify for the CL in 2013-14. The 4th placed team would then qualify for the Europa League. I assume that Swansea or Bradford will get a Europa League place and the other place would go to the Winners of the FA Cup.

If Man U won the CL then the top 4 would qualify for the CL.

I don't think the winners of the Europa League has any bearing on qualifying for next season's tournament unless of course there is a last minute rule change to accommodate our neighbours.

So, in short, the top 5 and winners of the domestic cups qualify for European football.

Dominic Bobadilla
207 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:15:31
As a man is, so does the world appear to him. Look at Moyes as a stock broker.
He will only buy stocks which entail little or no risk. Similarly, Moyes will not take
chances against the bigger teams, because the risk would be too great. Moyes
is on the record, stating: "we Scots are always careful with our money." Someone who is careful in regard to something as important as financial matters, is likely
to be careful in other walks of life as well. Moyes has taken us as far as he can take us. This is what you get.
Gary Poole
208 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:19:27
Yesterday was a poor performance, no doubt about that and, this evenings glorious capitulation by the RS aside, the other results went against us.

However, let's look forward to Saturday: beat Oldham and then look at two perfectly winnable games.

I was as disappointed as anyone yesterday (the bad old days etc) but we need to move on.

Apart from anything else, WBA's smash and grab tonight has definitely improved my outlook.

Kunal Desai
209 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:27:00
Sam - "Except it end better", why is that because Clarke brought on Lukaku for Dorrans and went two up top and gave the shite's defences something to think about with 15 mins left. He took a chance and it paid off. He made that decision at 0-0, not when they were losing. Lukaku changed that game.
Nick Entwistle
210 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:31:21
Kunal, well done for changing tack. But Moyes makes game changing substitutions, as above. He also makes attacking substitutions in big games, see yesterday. And yes, as we all know we haven't won away against the big sides under Moyes. 1 out of three isn't bad.
Kevin Tully
211 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:32:12
Is Moyes getting some practice in for his new position as a pundit next season?

I think it's odd-on he will leave now. Unusual for a PL manager to be on MNF.

Colin Glassar
212 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:42:50
Well the RS result has taken away some of the pain from yesterday. Stevie-Me's ugly mug after the missed pen was poetry for me.
Nick Entwistle
213 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:47:36
Wouldn't know Colin, I look away every time his face appears on tv. Had a quid on WBA ar 13/2. Rich I tell ya!
Ian Smitham
214 Posted 11/02/2013 at 22:48:04
Patrick #558, thanks, but I recon that our qualifying for Europe is getting less likely, as from what we both understand it, 5th is the minimum to get there unless we win the FA Cup. That seems unlikely as the teams that will be left in by Sunday night will, most likely be the same teams in the main that will be vying for the CL places and those that we, and everyone else, struggle to beat.

I guess that one favourable draw on Sunday and a few of the other top teams drawing each other could just see us at Wembley, and as against Man U a couple of years ago, anything can happen.

Tom Bowers
215 Posted 12/02/2013 at 18:30:03
The tiredness factor shouldn't be an issue for Moyes. He never brings on fresh legs for the likes of Osman. Osman always looks like he is tired when he loses possession and tries to win it back quite feebly at times and I don't mean in the last ten minutes.
Keeping on tired legs can be suicidal when you have younger fresh legs still available on the bench. I don't buy that argument Moyes!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads

© ToffeeWeb