Blues' defence collapses in Goodison goalfest

Eto'o should be a great addition and took his goal really well.

Great header from Mirallas and very unlucky not to get 2nd.

Lukaku didn't look match fit but linked play up well.

Naisy was great and hopefully he can continue his goal scoring run.

A lot of fight and desire in the team, despite the shocking lapses in defence and terrible luck at times.

I've deliberately ignored the glaringly obvious negatives.

We need to learn how to be cautious when going forward, not to leave defense to exposed. Defence – especially Jagielka – has no confidence... We were found out by bad quality man-marking and closing down.

On a brighter note, we played some lovely footie at times today. Bring in Stones for the next game.

I have been saying this for 18 months now on here but have been regularly shouted down.

Jagielka and Distin, loyal servants they are, need putting out to grass now.

We should have spent the money on Wilfried Bony who I believe would have been cheaper than Lukaku and can actually hold the ball up.

And Ryan Shawcross or Ron Vlaar.

Much derided on there, Shawcross does what you want big strong central defenders to do. Wins headers, he is strong and what I like about centre halves... he is nasty.

Just read the report on Man City 0-1 Stoke to see what I mean, I really donÂ’t think I need to explain any more to justify this.

Jagielka and Distin are too Mr Niceguy, it gets you nowhere in this game being Mary Poppins-like.

How this fella keeps getting picked for both Everton and England ahead of the likes of Shawcross and Curtis Davies is beyond me.

I canÂ’t believe how we concede so many goals when we play two holding midfielders either.

I am speechless after that.

Schoolboy goals week in week out.

14 goals in our last 4 games at Goodison... So much for our home record.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and think of you as a wum, nothing more nothing less.

Eto'o looked really good he showed his class

I thought Baines was poor as we'll again. All that said, it was the best attacking display I've seen from us for a long time in parts – especially from Mirallas, Naismith and Coleman. Bizarre game and we lost to the Champions in my view.

It was not the game to bring Stones into, but he has to start the next match.

If we have any funds left, we need to get Nastasic in from City. Distin and Jags can sit with me.

Barry looks well short of fitness. 3 years too much?

Lukaku needs to put a shift in.

Besic has burst the bubble on call of a start.

So Bobby, over to you. Or will we regret that main stand artwork?

㿈 million.....

No touch, no control.....

Hopeless!!!

As usual match officials were inept with their Â’nonÂ’ offsides, against us,but while Coleman had a great game, like last week, two goals came from left wing crosses, not including his OG, Naismith continues to be a revelation as was Barry and McCarthy but I beleive Luke is still far from the finished article McGeady had a good innings while Bainsy was his usual excellent self.

Overall I thought we deserved a draw on a team performance that was at times brilliant the only criticism being our old nemesis of poor passing and losing possesion in critical areas, I reckon we will win more games than we lose if we can carry on performances like todayÂ’s.(minus the lapses in defence)

I would agree with going for Vlaar but not Shawcross. I think that the defence must be worked on as they have gone from one of the best in the Premier League to one of the weakest. Maybe Martinez may use what is left of this window to bring in some solidity.

Today our attack was terrific and special mentions go to Naismith again and Mirallas. DM built a fine defence and that was his legacy at the club. The same four are under performing so far this season.

McCarthy allowed to many runners from Chelsea goal side of him today. Besic... weÂ’ll say no more. Worst first touch of all time.

Shawcross had just been voted man of the match to Man City keeping a clean sheet.

The trouble with Jagielka and Distin is they look scared of defending like they actually hate it.
As a centre half you need to love putting it about and attacking balls.

This is the worst defensive partnership I have seen at Everton Football Club in a long time.

Stubbs and Weir?
Gough and Weir?
Yobo and Stubbs or Weir?
Lescott?

They could all defend.

Jagielka and Distin?
The thought process is way too slow and frankly they just get bullied too easily.

They werenÂ’t the only ones.

Only Naismith and EtoÂ’o could come out of that with their head up.

Baines is nothing without Pienaar.

McGeady??
Not good enough for a club with top 4 aspirations.

Besic?? Why bother when he is only going to be a bit part player by the looks of it and we already have central midfielders if that ilk?

Lukaku? My god lets hope this lack of fitness goes quickly because at the minute there is Naismith who is looking the 28 million man and Romelu the free agent.

A long hard season in the waiting and the Honeymoon over for Roberto now.

The nitty gritty starts here and now and that may mean some big decisions need making such as dropping favourites from the Moyes era and maybe a change of policy and formation..

The next four games are

West Brom Away
Palace at Home
Liverpool Away
Man United Away

I would suggest unless the next two are won then we are going to be in a very bleak Autumn

Utter shite defending; also, Baines I thought was shocking again. We donÂ’t seem to pose any threat from corners or set-pieces like we used to...

I wish, Alderweireld is solid.

I really cannot agree with your assesments. Rom played well today, Mirallas was immense. Coleman was strong and quick. If anybody let us down today, it was without a shadow of a doubt, Lady Luck. She was certainly not giving us the rub today and that can really turn a game.

EtoÂ’o looks like an astute signing, and really giving his all. BesicÂ’s backheel definitely did him no favors but we didnÂ’t see much otherwise. IÂ’m sure us wishing Stones playing will bite back at us when he lets in some easy goals, but hell, let him play!

In any case, there seem to be mixed reports on just how good a defender he is. I havenÂ’t seen enough of him to say one way or the other but I will be interested to see if a centre half does come in before the deadline.

DuffyÂ’s sale suggests there might be.

I am one who has been calling for Besic to get on so I am mightily embarrassed by his give-away goal. But I still think this guy will do well for us.

What Besic did was ridiculous, but I can see RobertoÂ’s logic in bringing him on, the game was already lost! Would we want him to come on 1-1 in the derby and do that? HeÂ’s got that one out the way, letÂ’s hope he can learn.

Christopher@2 opened the thread so succinctly, by stating a defeat with positives, or words to that effect, if that is possible.

Well yes it is, the positives, the attacking play, the negatives, the defence. While I appreciate the defence on the whole is a team effort, the midfield and the forwards, could not be blamed.

But the central defensive partnership, and Tim to a degree, proved today that they are simply past their sell-by-date. Although in mitigation Distin improved slightly as the game went on.

I have always maintained, that it is of little use, to create, through hard work and guile, a goal at one end, that is all too easily snuffed out by circus defending at the other.

I am still reeling, but in defence of Mo (back heel first touch) which led to an instant Chelsea response. Why was he coming on with two minutes or less of normal time remaining?

I think a mention for Naismith, Mirallas, Coleman and EtoÂ’o wouldnÂ’t really go amiss, they were far better than their team-mates today.

I suppose another positive would be the Global Marketing, the neutrals would have loved watching that, just a pity that none of us are neutral.

Some of our attacking play was a joy to watch, on that performance we would have battered most other sides in the Premier League.

However, our defending resembled something straight out of the Zingari League, Jags, for one, needs a spell gathering splinters.

Naismith was the stand out player for us. What a transformation in that lad since he was the fans number one scapegoat.

Lukaku definitely lacked fitness and sharpness today.

However, his touch, control and link up passes were fine. He also deserves credit for creating the space for a lot of our great attacking play. Not sure what game you were watching.

You canÂ’t blame Lady Luck when you concede 6 at home,

If there was such a thing asday Luck she would probably score a free header against us.

I felt sorry for Naismith and Mirallas today. They gave everything and deserved better.

If we make it 2-2 its a different game, the fact we went 3-1 down meant we had to go for it and leave ourselves open and against a quality side like this new Chelsea side we paid the price.

IÂ’ll start worrying after the West Brom and Palace games.

On another point, Diego Costa showed Lukaku how a real centre forward should play, Lukaku’s real down side to me is his mentality – he need’s a good slap off big Dunc and to start playing with some fire and aggression.

Positives were EtoÂ’o, Mirallas and Naismith and if you look at the standard of the midfield and attacking play, we were a hell of a lot better than we have been for a while.

1) Everton cannot play 4-3-3, what an embarrassment;

2) Everton canÂ’t play 3 at the back unless possibly Stones is one of them;

3) McGeady should not be at EFC;

4) we are in trouble despite the pre-season euphoria.

We were suspect of RMÂ’s defensive thought but perhaps another thought is, do we have enough in the backroom to ensure instructions and maintenance is enough? Surely we love what RM brings to the club but we need to staff based on his skillset too. IÂ’m sure heÂ’s not a superhuman that can do all things backroom by himself.

Reason I say that is, the way I see it, the midfield structure today is subpar at best, pretty much why the floodgates are open. We were attacking, yes, but the transition back to defence is horrible...They play well in good stretches but am often caught napping at the worst possible moments.

Bad things happen but it can be taken easier if there are huge improvements from then on.

Clearly teams now know how weÂ’re going to play, so do we need to use another formation.

The defence needs sorting out, can we afford to have Stones warming the bench, when JagÂ’s looks lost.

I think we could end up regretting paying 㿈 million for Lukaku & after his recent performances, (certainly now weÂ’ve got EtoÂ’o), I think there needs to be serious consideration to sticking him on the bench to start.

As the fella sat in front of me today said, "WeÂ’re turning into Wigan."

Get a grip man you are fully responsible for the line ups the players and the system we play and if you are not aware of the mistakes over the last 3 games there is something fundamentaly wrong with what you have been watching.

Goals are what we want to see but it is the defence that win the games or earn a draw. We can not play in the Europa league with a cavalier attitude and allow the opposition to come to Goodison and score.

We need a midfield general to distribute the ball foreward instead having our defensive midfielders win the ball and then pass either sideways or backwards. Everton also need a strong vocal captain to light a fire under some of the under performers.

One of the top defensive back 4 from last season should not suddenly become poor unless the system that they played before has been changed.At this time Everton should bring in a top defensive coach before it is to late.

Lukaku looks massively overpriced at the moment, poor touch and complete lack of intelligent movement. Eto’o showed him up today.

Distin is not as fast as he used to be, does Pienaar make Baines look good because he looks like an average full back without him.

Just cannot defend like that against the next Champions in my opinion, we better had sort out the defending soon or we are going to be like KeeganÂ’s Newcastle and we all know what they won.

You could see as soon as he came on his touch his movement his goal.

Lukaku is still young and learning but for me he looks worryingly immobile, he doesn't look like he can do the basics of retrieving the ball, back to goal gathering it and controlling it, it just isn't stocking with him at the minute.

Naismith is a joy to watch, nit only does the lads run through brick walls but you never feel he is going to miss when a chance presents itself.

The defence has badly badly let the team down today, that goes for all the back five plus the midfielders who are meant to be holding their own.

Oh well another two weeks now before we can shit ourselves st the prospect of being bombarded by West Brom and then Neil Warnock's (oh no) alehouse style of play, which is liable to fuck with our heads..

Can't really see his we stem the tide at the minute though, time will tell but it's certainly been a sheer avalanche of goals conceded over the last 10 league games going back to last season.

Hate so say it guys, but hindsight, and jerky knees rule.

Too many players show that they're really average when we are chasing a game, McGeady, Naismith... Our midfield is sterile and predictable without Barkley.

Martinez has not identified and replaced aging players: Howard, Osman, Jagielka, Distin, Barry. Martinez hasn't prepared the players properly, physically and mentally, for top performances from the off. He's letting matches go away from us and not using the squad when change is obviously needed.

I'd drop Howard, Jagielka, Barry, McGeady and Lukaku and bring in Robles, Stones, Besic, Atsu and Eto'o for the next game.

We had no luck today. Their 2nd goal was offside, 3rd goal was a lucky own goal, 4th goal took a deflection. We hit the bar and post.

Things didn't go our way, but the defending was so poor we deserved what we got. To conce,de 10 goals in 3 games is just shocking. I for one am worried. I would like to see Gibson back. He has the ability to take control of games. We miss him.

We did have luck today as Howard should have been sent off for handling outside his area.

Why he didn't just boot it clear is beyond me.

You wonÂ’t get Howard/Robies past the lads and lasses on here but you do show exactly why we need to sign a new keeper and a new central defender. Both are essential. But sometimes I think that Bobby looks at the defence and goalie situations, rubs his hands and shouts Â’sortedÂ’!

Thank god we have two weeks to sort out the problem. For the first time, scoring goals is not the problem. Today it could have been 6-6 or 3-10, the manager needs to bring in Stones and Besic to give some pace in the defensive half. Also, a kick up the arse is needed as those individual errors were shocking by international players.

All those moaning regarding Lukaku need to remember he is still very young and having Eto’o to mentor him will be to our benefit. The team philosophy has changed considerably during the past 14 months and the manager needs to find a balance. Today was a freak result: 2-0 down after 5 minutes was always going to open the game, the game plan was dead.

It’s going to be an interesting season: after three matches, 10 goals against, and 7 scored! On a lighter note, I have removed Tim Howard from my fantasy league team!

West Bromwich Albion next?

We paid 㿈 million for Likaku, which is only ٢M less than Chelsea paid for Costa. There was no comparison today. For such a fee you expect better control and movement than he has shown all season. He doesn’t even look like a good prospect.

I’m beginning to think Mourinho saw us coming.

IÂ’m mad because we have been lazy in transfer market, we paid 㾹M over book for Lukaku, Dawson goes for ١.5M!!! Why didnÂ’t we get him, Curtis Davies probably about ٢M, Ben Arfa off to Birmingham, I could have had improved that team fore half the price!!!!

The two fullbacks need to spend more time on their defensive duties and the DMs need to up their game to protect the CBs. A few clean sheets are the priority now. If Barry runs out of steam Besic should come on sooner. I bet he'll not try anything flash for the rest of this season. Gibson should be available soon as well.

The attack seems in good shape – Naismith, Mirallas, Eto'o, Lukaku and Atsu will get lots of goals this year. Let's not forget Chelsea are a great side now with Costa and Fabregas, and the scoreline flattered them a bit with a streaky og, a gift form Besic and one which was offside.

As I said before, I don't have any confidence in RM's defensive coaching. It's all very well attacking gung-ho but you are asking for trouble against the likes of Chelsea. I can't understand those who prefer a 4-4 draw to a 1-0 win. I know which I prefer.

Lukaku at Everton and West Bromwich Albion, scored double figures. He doesn't set the fee and was bought by Chelsea for 㾾M. They wanted a profit considering he was the highest goal scorer at both clubs. Comparing the type of striker Everton and Chelsea can buy makes no sense, Costa to Everton, fee up front no champions league and no chance of winning the league. Costa's salary is double that of Lukaku and yes he is a better player at the moment. Bringing in eto'o will take the pressure of him and yes Lukaku still has much to learn.

The manager is trying to bring players that suit Everton at this time. No champions league restricts the player you can attract and salary paid. Do you think the signings we have made are due to the manager or the club? Sadly we will pay over the top fees if the club want to move to the next level.

Players will be overpriced based on need and market forces. The selling club will know how desperate a club is for the a players services. Fellaini to Man Utd comes to mind, 㿇M! One might say what goes around comes around!

My fear is, if we don't win anything this season or a top five finish, it will mean selling players to balance the books.

It pisses me off, every goal that's scored is supposed to be because of bad defending! The through ball for Chelsea's first was perfect, Costa timed his run, 1-0. Ivanovic should have been given offside 2-0. We now had a mountain to climb, what shall we do, all get behind the ball and try to keep it at 2-0?

Before the season started, we were assessed as the 7th best team in the league; we were well 2nd favs to win this game!

We all knew some of our players are past their best, so that's no great surprise; some are saying we need a class midfielder and two good defenders – of course it would help... but the manager will know that too – but where's the money coming from?

It's always a famine or a feast on here; we're either wonderful or the worst team in the world!

For a change I thought MOTD summed the game up very well.

I have no confidence that Martinez could buy in a fix to the defensive problems, he'll probably take a chance on someone with promise with a history of injuries. West Brom will be a true reflection of how poor we truly are, or are not.

Roberto (listen!) STRENGTHEN THE DEFENCE!

Now, 10 goals against in 3 games. OMG it's been so obvious for so long.

Samuel Eto'o - great start!

Besides fitness he's been played more on the right side. I honestly think some people on this forum are really fickle, we're not the RS!! We're lucky to have him. And speaking of Hull they'd never sell Davis for ٢m, it'd be triple that price the way the RS and United have inflated transfer prices this summer.

Yes the defending was abysmal at times. What worries me is how much of this decline in the Jags/Distin partnership is down to age and loss in form or defensive coaching. It's probably more worrying if its the latter cos it'll mean that we've abandoned the solid foundations that OFM made. While I'm all for the expansive football, I don't want us to become another Blackpool or Wigan albeit better.

That's probably an overreaction as we've played a hungry newly promoted team and two title challengers. If we're still shipping in the goals after the WBA and Palace games. I will be worried.

By the time of the aforementioned games we should hopefully have Stones playing and another option from deadline day. I really hope that we give Jags a break until he can get back in the team on merit rather than his reputation of the last few years.

ev was a treat throughout the match. McGeady is way too slow, he's a pass behind every time. I know he set it up for Naisy but still hope that Atsu takes his place soon.

I think Mo's friendly debut went to his head with his heart first touches. He'll learn from that. Thank god the game was actually gone by then. He'll still be a great signing.

Final word on our captain. I'd seriously drop him for Stones. Stones might make a few mistakes but I reckon not as much as Jags and in the long run we'll benefit. Jags has been poor for a long time.

Overall I think it is kinda positive. If we cut out the stupid mistakes we'll be good. We scored 3 good goals.

And yes, Nigel, I agree with you about McGeady. He has moments of class but for every sublime moment there seems to be equal amounts of ineptitude. He's good but I understand what some of the Irish and Celtic fans meant now; him frustrating with some of his decision-making.

Piss poor officiating which should have seen Fabregas sent off for plenty of off-the-ball antics, Costa should have seen his second yellow and been booked for the blatant dive which the ref ignored and was followed quickly by their fifth virtually walked into the net.

Very few positives from the game whatsoever besides Naismith who yet again bust a gut non-stop and deserved a goal with a great finish. Mirallas got better after the first 10 to 15 minutes of dross. Eto'o showed his class and played really well. Howard very lucky not to have walked for his catch outside the area and his handbags with Costa.

As much as McCarthy? I wouldn't have thought so but then again I wouldn't expect him to. There is a clear price to pay when fielding a player of his age who has never exactly been quick about the park. That is one reason I thought we would have seen a lot more of Besic in all three games so far, and also why I was obviously a lot less thrilled than many on here when he signed this summer. Not disappointed, just not jumping up and down and shouting "Yes, Gareth Barry has signed!"

I am of the opinion that we could do an awful lot worse than Gareth Barry but also perhaps get someone better. I would rather have two 'McCarthys' if we could get another (is Besic another McCarthy?). That is why I was hopeful we would sign another young, mobile defensive midfielder even before Ross Barkley got injured.

Still not sure Barry was guilty of coasting today though.

There was nothing wrong with the team's set-up overall so calling Martinez naive or even negligent is unbelievable. His comments after the game were fair and it is understandable that he would mention the positives as well as the negatives. We scored 3 very good goals - and it could have been more - against a team who hardly made a mistake.

This is a fantastic Chelsea team, strong throughout (including all of their bench) and better than they have been for a few years now. We will play teams of this quality a handful of times this season. Mourinho was sincere in his after match comments because he knows we gave them a game even though we shot ourselves in the foot at times.

No-one without a grudge would pick out Distin, Barry, McGeady or Lukaku for special criticism on that performance. They may not have produced really good displays but they all worked hard, did some good things and didn't really do much wrong.

None of us like to lose and we all hate that we conceded 6 goals, but to not be able to see anything positive in that game is mind-blowing.

I've said it on other posts, we need a centre half and a right back before this transfer window closes. Jagielka and Distin are are in steady decline, Stones is developing, Duffy has been sold and Alcaraz is not good enough. Nor is Hibbert even remotely an adequate cover for Coleman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Axhg-41TY

It's the basic defending principles of marking up, tackling and clearing your lines... none of which is occurring in the Everton defence. Tactics are irrelevant when you are not doing the basics.

We do have a squad of players so now is the time to start using some of them.

We need more defenders who tackle and not back off and back off. There are too many weak players, including Baines – he is frail defensively.

Barry needs to put his foot in more often, Chelsea didn't worry about getting stuck in.

More sweat and more aggression is what is needed in defence; until then, we will be brushed aside even by Everton Ladies.

Mirralas and McGeady we're excellent. Naismith played well too. Some of the football was breathtaking, but I am starting to worry that we haven't got a leader at the back. There's no-one to bully opposing strikers; we need a good old-fashioned stopper.

2 points from the first 3 games was not the plan but it is what it is and should hopefully give all the players and manager a massive reality check and big size 10 up the backside.

Eto'o will score loads of goals for us this season, which is a bonus; he may be getting on but his movement and instinct is still world class.

Time for a two-week break and see if we sign anyone else in the next 2 days.

I've been giving Man Utd fans stick but they're above us in the table!

BarryÂ’s legs have gone. He just canÂ’t get there any more to put his foot in. Watch him, heÂ’s playing at jogging pace. HeÂ’s there till 2017 and will be 36 then, but will be 㾶M better off thanks to our generous chairman who should know better.

Chelsea only offer over-30s 1-year contracts.

Good analysis – it’s nothing to do with the headline fee and all to do with attracting a top class striker with CL and ridiculous wages. We are just not in the mix.

After HowardÂ’s confrontation, I donÂ’t think Costa would ever want to come to Goodison.

Just one thing I noticed before the game: the difference in attitude in the warm-up training before the match was very noticeable,. The Chelsea warm-up routine was highly disciplined, almost military in nature and they were taking it seriously. They spent a considerable amount of time passing at mid-distance rapidly.

Looking across at Everton, they were relaxed in fact almost light-hearted. They were clearly just going through the motions. IÂ’m pretty sure which routine would give a team the psychological and cutting edge at the start of a game.

I cannot criticise any of our attacking players for that performance. The defence simply wasnÂ’t organised and we werenÂ’t holding the line we held last season, players are stepping out at the wrong times.

Do I think Jags needs to be taken out of the firing line? Possibly, yes. These are the same players though who had such a great record last season, so we canÂ’t blame ability and we canÂ’t blame the "Martinez approach". Distin hasnÂ’t lost his pace either so they just need to work hard at getting organised again.

The only two things that really worry me, though, are that Roberto (love the man) has failed to see that the defence in general was far from adequate to venture on for another season, with Europa League too. There has been little mention till recently of any defensive reinforcements. We on TW have mentioned this so many times, and have found it almost glaringly obvious, that drastic measures were needed regarding the centre-back and goalkeeping positions.

The other worry is a case of timing: the window is perilously close to shutting, we have let Duffy go (not that IÂ’m saying he was the answer, but was at least cover), so will we get, if any, the right players at the right price?

I think personally we still need, two centre-backs, a goalkeeper, and an attacking midfielder. I know that sounds drastic, but Tim has shown too many mistakes in both pre-season and the three games we have played to date. The centre-back position more or less speaks for itself: two great servants who are getting older and subsequently making more errors, and are losing the pace a tad.

Attacking mid, while the forward slots look to have been sorted (barring injury, and Traffic due back soon), I still feel we need someone to feed that ball through, or out wide with accuracy, it may be we already have him in Besic, he certainly has the passing accuracy, itÂ’s just whether they would consider pushing him forward a bit more.

"Lukaku linked play really well." – What game was you watching? He was a disgrace, his first touch for a so-called international is abysmal, and as for his work rate... well, let’s not go there, hey.

I said at the time we’ve paid well over the odds for this imposter. And nothing I’ve seen since will make me alter that view. He could do well to learn off the ever willing Naismith – not the greatest player at the club, but by god does he put a shift in, and his finishing is exemplary. In fact, Eto’o did more when he came on than the self-confessed "complete striker".

IÂ’ve had a bet with 3 of my mates after the match that he wonÂ’t score 10 league goals all season and IÂ’ve got a feeling IÂ’m going to be a few quid better off come May. And please donÂ’t say, "Well, heÂ’s not fit" because he shouldnÂ’t be playing. He actually cost us 2 goals because of his poor touch when receiving the ball in the middle of the park.

A truly shocking performance defensively and if Martinez canÂ’t see that defense needs shaking up, he really is deluded. 10 goals conceded in 3 games is atrocious, it really is. I feel embarrassed this morning, I really do.

I was calling for John Stones to be starting on the first game of the season (at centre half). Jagielka is way off the pace. Distin isnÂ’t playing much better but our captain is clearly struggling and needs to come out of the firing line now!

IÂ’ve seen Everton play twice as worse than that and still win. There is no need to press the panic buttons just yet but those dropped points have come back to haunt us more than ever. Due to the nature of that defeat, I think itÂ’s fair to say the Martinez Â’honeymoonÂ’ period is over!

Why do we stay square for most of the game?????.

It is must-win games for the next few weeks as, even at this early stage, we canÂ’t let sides like Spurs and Arsenal go 7 or 8 points clear.

To blame Tim Howard with that excuse of a defence in front off him is quite frankly ridiculous!! He is and has been a solid performer in our side and the only player who seems to be capable of giving out a few bollockings.

Jagielka?? This is not just any player we are on about but the club captain!! DoesnÂ’t lead by example, doesnÂ’t advise or give anyone the verbals, doesnÂ’t interact with the referee about decisions, and has been the player most likely to underperform and make mistakes in a worryingly long time.

Moyes said when he left that Jagielka wasnÂ’t captain material and I tend to agree with him.

The other factor is that the defensive Centre Back pairing are all over the place and making it difficult to cover without being over-exposed against pacey forwards, and also incurring a torrent of abuse by us lot on here. I like Barry, and still think he has a lot to offer, with his experience and ability.

There were a few plus points: EtoÂ’o looks class, Mirallas was outstanding, Naismith played well, as did Baines.

Get it sorted, Martinez – that was embarrassing.

A concise and fair view. I got back late last night after the game and the 3-hour drive had given me time to reflect. I was surprised at the vehemence of some posts... understandable, obviously born out of passion and frustration, but come on blues...

After 48 years as a match-going blue, I think we have some of the best players in like-for-like positions I have ever seen, a manager who gets the club, and – despite the almost pathological hatred – a chairman who backs the managers... It makes me despair sometimes.

3 goals
A post hit
The bar thumped
A keeper who should have been off early in the first half
68% possession
9 shots with 7 on target
8 corners.......

As mentioned above we came across a better, more expensively assembled team who didnÂ’t have to chase because of a poor start and a couple of errors and deflected goals that sealed our fate.

Ian, Chelsea paid 㾶m for Lukaku, less than they received in loan payments from us and WBA. Yes, he has a good goals to game record but, and I repeat something I said in a previous pre-signing discussion on TW , 㿈m is double what he is worth. Everton, presumably out of desperation , allowed Chelsea to shaft us over the price. You can look at fees for different players and see how we could have improved our squad, both in attack and defence, and still had change from LukakuÂ’s fee. Believe me, IÂ’m glad we have got Lukaku, but IÂ’ve never been happy at the amount we paid.
Thomas Vermaelen (㾻m) , Loic Remy (٦.5m), Eric Dier (٢m). Even Michael Dawson going to Hull for ٢m would have been good cover for Jags, or even played in his place. He couldnÂ’t be any worse.I think we could have spent LukakuÂ’s fee more wisely.

The squad is not deep enough. Aside from Barkley the only other ball playing mids who can keep it, knit play together and play all across the mid in attacking areas are Ossie and Pienaar. And Ossie cant really do that any more he has to play deeper. They are also both 32, on the wane and picking up injuries.

Therefore if we play a 4-2-3-1, the 3 behind Lukaku are all far too attacking and its more like a 4-2-5 with the full back playing as wing backs ffs!!

Its too much.

We conceded 3 against Palace with an absurd team selection. There is no need to try and blow teams away. We were great going forward yesterday but if you load it the way we did I should hope we would cause them problems.

It was like watching Nigel Benn.

It is at the expense of team shape and discipline. And points. Very boring things and without them you cant win matches.

The centre halves arenÂ’t playing well, but they are under a lot of pressure as are McCarthy and Barry. They have to do pretty much everything. McCarthy got done wide by Hazard yesterday, but if Hazard is presented with McCarthy in a one v one then heÂ’s regularly going to beat him. HeÂ’s made Zabaleta, cracking defender, look a cunt numerous times.

Jags is clearly suffering but I donÂ’t think just playing Stones will cure it. The set up and emphasis is wrong. Its difficult enough trying to cope with Costa without getting pulled all over the show and getting no help, because your trying to blow teams away.

It reminds me a little of those crazy sides Ossie Ardiles used to play when he was Spurs gaffer.

Its too much and Martinez needs to lay off the hippie attacking vibe and get a grip. We will get leathered in Europe if we try this.

We were playing Chelsea and if you open up that much you will get fucked. I saw the team and knew weÂ’d get beat.

More like Tony Benn.

A nice reminder that every team has its struggles and IÂ’m glad because they were looking like contenders for our spot this year.

At least we scored!

CanÂ’t see the defence being like this for too long, and as many are saying we look quite formidable going forward. LetÂ’s hope the 3 in the England squad cry off with a sudden mysterious injury and they can spend the next two weeks sorting these defensive errors out.

Two down after 3 minutes - but we showed fight and scored some great goals.

Defense needs a lot of extra training time. We havenÂ’t turned rubbish overnight. Weird games happen.

I was more disappointed with the previous two games being given away.

One off side goal, one own goal, one deflected goal and then the Besic bit of silliness. Lady Luck was wearing a different shade of blue yesterday.

Two weeks hard work and weÂ’ll turn the corner.

Agree with Rob #111 and Bob #112

IÂ’ll be listening with interest to transfer deadline day.
I think DuffyÂ’s move to Blackburn may be an indicator that someone new is coming in at CB. I hope so.

Other than that, IÂ’m giving football a break until after this international rubbish is out of the way. For once, I think itÂ’s come at the right time for us.

LetÂ’s call everything to date Â’pre-seasonÂ’ and get started proper in a couple of weeks.

Still canÂ’t help that we have been had by Chelsea there.

Diego Costa only cost 4 million more and thatÂ’s a fella who has done it at the very highest level.

Martinez says heÂ’d have paid 100 million for Lukaku, well letÂ’s hope that he can work him in training over the next few weeks to start doing the basics right, such as his hold up play and ball control which at present is shocking.

Swansea have 100% record and Villa have 7/9 points. I can (almost) guarantee we will finish above these two. We will be fine.

Unless you meant we will take 6 points from WBA and palace.

If we fail to win against two mediocre opponents (and we had FOUR games against West Brom and Palace last term and didnÂ’t win any) then the next two will seem like mountains to climb.

Anfield and Old Trafford back to back and sandwiched in between a trip to Russia.

Liverpool will simply tear us a new one with the way we defend.

Ok, United ainÂ’t what they used to be but your still not favourites to win there, given the likes of Rooney, Di Maria etc are there against our defence.

After United we then donÂ’t play again until October 18 .

So as you can see mate, failure to win the next two or at least one of them and your more than likely at the end if October without a win.

When would that become a mini crisis??

Certainly donÂ’t ever remember any club that has finished 4th without a victory up to the end of October.

5 transfers are cited, 3 of which are of local interest: Fellaini, Arteta and the hilarious transfer of Andy Carroll for a bargain 㿏m (just to make us feel better about the Lukaku deal). By the way, I think / hope Lukaku will come good despite recent form.

The first thing that sprang to mind after reading it was the McCarthy to Man Utd link. HeÂ’s shortly priced to go there with the bookies before Tuesday and United are certainly in splash-the-cash panic mode. Surely we wonÂ’t sell? It would have to be big money (㿀m+) and even then would leave us no time for a replacement. Still, itÂ’ll be an interesting Monday evening potentially.

We have to be looking at additions rather than off-loading.
CB and keeper for me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28835892

The thing with Lukaku though is his whole demeanor.

He never seems to have the ball under control nor does he look convincing when he attempts to run with the ball, he looks nervy and almost to be frank quite lethargic in his movement.

Naismith is playing and finishing like Lukaku should be.

Naismith chases men down and closes defenders down, something else which fails Lukaku too often in my opinion.

I know it was a good wankfest, spending all that money on one player, but what we could have done with that money, given our ageing, creaking, defence is starting to worry me.

At least now Lukaku can be dropped and replaced if he doesnÂ’t buck up.

Yes I do mate!!

I have said it time ans time again and was screaming it yesterday, how do we concede 6 at home when we have SIX defensive minded players in the team??

The thong that also troubles me is why McCarthy never tries to do more box to box play.

You gave Barry as the holding midfielder but McCarthy is young and full of energy.

He seemed to be more box to box at Wigan.
I never ever see him commiting to our attacks.

Why?

On Barry, I thought he was prominent in the first half but seemed to disappear in the second. I have to agree with comments about RM not using subs at the right time this season. Something he did really well last season overall.

Jim B (#131), those thongs can be troublesome. I think some of our players had them on yesterday.

McCarthy has all the strength and the raw energy to perhaps add more strings to his bow.

I love what he does ans at times last season he had me stating that heÂ’s the best defensive midfielder in England but thereÂ’s times when he needs to start as you say "making those crunching tackles and letting people know heÂ’s going nowhere"

The Anfield Derby in January for instance left me a bit disappointed by his no show, you just wanted desperately for him to go in for the type of howÂ’s yer father crunchers with their midfielders, the type Naismith did yesterday on more than one occasion.

I look at our midfield and think if the wide player donÂ’t create or try to support the forward then in general you never see a shot from McCarthy or Barry, or see them in the box enough.
Barry in particular scored a cracker last season against Norwich, why not try it more?

Jackie@121. Naismith would be the first name on the team sheet for me.

Jim@124. Pretty miserable post. We could win all four.

So you donÂ’t have to be a football genius to work out the problem is at the back. If the latest gossip is true (Shawcross in) I for one will be happy. He is just what we need - a big, mobile stopper who can head he ball.

There were plenty of positives to take from the game. EtoÂ’o showed his class not only with the way he took his goal but with his movement and eye for a pass. We have got a proper footballer on our hands here.

I thought McGeady played with intelligence and think he should start every game. However I feel RM has some tough decisions to make for the next game surrounding Jags, McCarthy and Lukaku.

Our problems for me lay with Barry who is basically too slow and is costing us dearly at the minute. In my opinion, he is going to cause McCarthy to become injured very soon if he keeps having him do a lot of his running. If youÂ’re going to stroll around a park, having people doing your donkey work, you have to score or assist; Barry does neither.

Next up: Jags is clearly out of form and his confidence is total rat shit. Stones is a must for the next game; he needs to be given a run of games and should no longer be held back as Barkley was under Moyes.

Criticism of some players on the day was justified. What surprises me is most people are singling out Jags and Distin this season only. They have never gelled together. Last season they were exposed with every set piece and helped cost us 4th place.

We have a second-rate goal keeper who has no competition in the club. Why was this not addressed pre season?

I pick up on Luke being overweight. Psychologically I think Howard has a problem- he seem to thinks heÂ’s important and his opinion counts instead of playing to the whistle.the guys around him were following his lead. The first goal was not off -side, the second was, and then Howard was lucky whern he handled outside his area.

The time our defenders gave to the Chelsea players to shoot or cross was unbelievable. In the Arsenal game, Coleman should have shut down rather than let the player into our box where he could not tackle. I the Chelsea game, again, close down Matic before letting him shoot rather than let him shoot. Everton played really well; we hit the bar and the post... those go in and itÂ’s a different game.

I think itÂ’s the training method that Roberto as introduced thatÂ’s got the team looking limp and ragged..

Martinez will be out on his arse in no time if he continues to run the club in such an amateurish manner.

Lets consider whatÂ’s happened, we have drawn with Leicester who since have drawn with Arsenal! We drew with Arsenal and lost by 3 goals to probably the 1st or 2nd best team in the league, who on that performance are going to hand out plenty of thrashings.

Following on from a cracking season last year, because weÂ’ve drawn 2 and lost 1, hardly a crisis, Martinez now knows nothing about conditioning and making substitutions

IÂ’m not suggesting heÂ’s infallible we all make mistakes + we donÂ’t get to hear the thinking behind most of the decisions he makes.
He did better than alright last year, but now 12 months later he is now lacking in judgement. I donÂ’t buy it.

ThereÂ’s several reasons why were not a CL side yet, but I donÂ’t think heÂ’s one of them.