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Blues' defence collapses in Goodison goalfest

30/08/2014  Comments (155)  jump
Everton 3 - 6 Chelsea

Everton crashed to their first defeat of the season amid a deluge of goals at Goodison Park that leaves huge question marks hanging over what was the third-best defence in the Premier League last season.

The Blues sleepwalked out of the dressing room and were, astonishingly, 2-0 down before three minutes had elapsed after Diego Costa had capitalised on a crucial error in judgement from Phil Jagielka to nut-meg Tim Howard and Branislav Ivanovic profited from the first of a slew of erroneous decisions from the officials to drive home from a marginally offside decision.

Roberto Martinez's side established their composure for the remainder of the first half, though, and after Romelu Lukaku had thundered a header off the crossbar and Sylvain Distin's "goal" off the rebound had been correctly chalked off for offside, Kevin Mirallas ended a fine Everton move to head home on the stroke of half time.

The home side were using the platform of that goal and the greater composure that had underpinned their display since those calamitous opening minutes but found themselves two goals down again just as Martinez was preparing to introduce new signing Samuel Eto'o. Eden Hazard eased past James McCarthy at the byline but was fortunate to see his cross fly past Howard off Seamus Coleman's out-stretched foot.

Everton were undaunted, though, and Aiden McGeady's second decisive slide-rule pass of the afternoon released Steven Naismith on goal and he finished with the kind of aplomb that is becoming his trademark to make it 3-2.

Again, though, defensive frailties at the other end scuppered the Blues' recovery attempts. Nemnja Matic was allowed too much space to engineer a shot from the edge of the penalty area and swept home Chelsea's fourth off the inside of the post to restore the Londoners' two-goal lead. And though Eto'o halved that advantage again a minute later with an excellent striker's header off Leighton Baines' free-kick, Jose Mourinho's men promptly scored again, Ramires this time the beneficiary of yet more abysmal defending as he rammed home a fifth.

Everton almost came back once more in a helter-skelter match when another lovely attacking move finished with Mirallas' first-time effort seemingly destined for the net. But Thibault Courtois pulled off a stunning finger-tipped save that guided his compatriot's effort onto the post.

The Blues' energy was seemingly tapped out by the closing stages and Martinez introduced Muhamed Besic with a couple of minutes left to make his long-awaited debut. It would be one to forget for the Bosnian, though, as it was his ill-advised backheel inside his own half that sent Costa clear again and the Spanish striker slid the final goal of the game past the goalkeeper to wrap up a bizarre evening of action on Merseyside.

Full coverage: ToffeeWeb Match Reports


Reader Comments (155)

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Christopher Wallace
2 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:33:49
Certainly not a defeat without positives, but our lack of defence is a real cause for concern.

Eto'o should be a great addition and took his goal really well.

Great header from Mirallas and very unlucky not to get 2nd.

Lukaku didn't look match fit but linked play up well.

Naisy was great and hopefully he can continue his goal scoring run.

A lot of fight and desire in the team, despite the shocking lapses in defence and terrible luck at times.

I've deliberately ignored the glaringly obvious negatives.

Clive Lewis
3 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:33:09
Wigan- and Swansea-like under Martinez albeit with quality of good attacking play. Loss of structure in the middle when Chelsea broke too many forward.

We need to learn how to be cautious when going forward, not to leave defense to exposed. Defence – especially Jagielka – has no confidence... We were found out by bad quality man-marking and closing down.

Chris Kendall
4 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:38:56
Lukaku was crap today. He moves around like an old carthorse. Glad we donÂ’t have to pay the full 㿈 million up front. If he turns out to be a loss by seasonÂ’s end, we can flog him on to someone else. ThereÂ’s a reason Chelski didnÂ’t wanÂ’t him. EtoÂ’o did more in 20 minutes than Lukaku did all game.

On a brighter note, we played some lovely footie at times today. Bring in Stones for the next game.

Jim Bennings
5 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:33:46
An utter shambles

I have been saying this for 18 months now on here but have been regularly shouted down.

Jagielka and Distin, loyal servants they are, need putting out to grass now.

We should have spent the money on Wilfried Bony who I believe would have been cheaper than Lukaku and can actually hold the ball up.

And Ryan Shawcross or Ron Vlaar.

Much derided on there, Shawcross does what you want big strong central defenders to do. Wins headers, he is strong and what I like about centre halves... he is nasty.

Just read the report on Man City 0-1 Stoke to see what I mean, I really donÂ’t think I need to explain any more to justify this.

Jagielka and Distin are too Mr Niceguy, it gets you nowhere in this game being Mary Poppins-like.

How this fella keeps getting picked for both Everton and England ahead of the likes of Shawcross and Curtis Davies is beyond me.

I canÂ’t believe how we concede so many goals when we play two holding midfielders either.

I am speechless after that.

Schoolboy goals week in week out.

14 goals in our last 4 games at Goodison... So much for our home record.

Colin Glassar
6 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:45:18
Ryan Shawcross and Ron Vlaar? Are you serious, mate, or is your hatred of Martinez is so intense you'd like us to buy these two carthorses?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and think of you as a wum, nothing more nothing less.

Sajid Patel
7 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:47:05
Jags and Distin need to go. Too slow and got caught out many times.

Eto'o looked really good he showed his class

Tony Hill
8 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:46:40
McCarthy was I am afraid terrible today, the way Hazard went past him for the OG was shocking. It's time he upped his game and contributed more going forward too.

I thought Baines was poor as we'll again. All that said, it was the best attacking display I've seen from us for a long time in parts – especially from Mirallas, Naismith and Coleman. Bizarre game and we lost to the Champions in my view.

Ian Bennett
9 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:54:52
Terrible. Simply terrible.

It was not the game to bring Stones into, but he has to start the next match.

If we have any funds left, we need to get Nastasic in from City. Distin and Jags can sit with me.

Barry looks well short of fitness. 3 years too much?

Lukaku needs to put a shift in.

Besic has burst the bubble on call of a start.

So Bobby, over to you. Or will we regret that main stand artwork?

Richard Nelson
10 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:59:02
Lukaku....

㿈 million.....

No touch, no control.....

Hopeless!!!

Peter Cummings
11 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:31:27
Anyone seeing this result would think we were played off the park but the fact is we were as good Chelsea for a large part of the game, the difference of course was down to bad defending and even worse goals, at least three of which were Â’giftwrappedÂ’,

As usual match officials were inept with their Â’nonÂ’ offsides, against us,but while Coleman had a great game, like last week, two goals came from left wing crosses, not including his OG, Naismith continues to be a revelation as was Barry and McCarthy but I beleive Luke is still far from the finished article McGeady had a good innings while Bainsy was his usual excellent self.

Overall I thought we deserved a draw on a team performance that was at times brilliant the only criticism being our old nemesis of poor passing and losing possesion in critical areas, I reckon we will win more games than we lose if we can carry on performances like todayÂ’s.(minus the lapses in defence)

Trevor Lynes
12 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:56:39
Everyone is blaming Jags and Distin but both Coleman and McCarthy made just as many mistakes without any blame being attached to them. Hazard went past each of them without challenge and our defensive midfielders did not defend.

I would agree with going for Vlaar but not Shawcross. I think that the defence must be worked on as they have gone from one of the best in the Premier League to one of the weakest. Maybe Martinez may use what is left of this window to bring in some solidity.

Today our attack was terrific and special mentions go to Naismith again and Mirallas. DM built a fine defence and that was his legacy at the club. The same four are under performing so far this season.

James Elworthy
13 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:01:36
I hear Toby Alderweireld is on his way, one year loan deal from Athletico Madrid, Duffy sold to pay the loan fee.
Stones has to now be selected also. Baines is suffering from a bad World Cup hangover.

McCarthy allowed to many runners from Chelsea goal side of him today. Besic... weÂ’ll say no more. Worst first touch of all time.

Jim Bennings
14 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:54:52
Colin

Shawcross had just been voted man of the match to Man City keeping a clean sheet.

The trouble with Jagielka and Distin is they look scared of defending like they actually hate it.
As a centre half you need to love putting it about and attacking balls.

This is the worst defensive partnership I have seen at Everton Football Club in a long time.

Stubbs and Weir?
Gough and Weir?
Yobo and Stubbs or Weir?
Lescott?

They could all defend.

Jagielka and Distin?
The thought process is way too slow and frankly they just get bullied too easily.

They werenÂ’t the only ones.

Only Naismith and EtoÂ’o could come out of that with their head up.

Baines is nothing without Pienaar.

McGeady??
Not good enough for a club with top 4 aspirations.

Besic?? Why bother when he is only going to be a bit part player by the looks of it and we already have central midfielders if that ilk?

Lukaku? My god lets hope this lack of fitness goes quickly because at the minute there is Naismith who is looking the 28 million man and Romelu the free agent.

A long hard season in the waiting and the Honeymoon over for Roberto now.

The nitty gritty starts here and now and that may mean some big decisions need making such as dropping favourites from the Moyes era and maybe a change of policy and formation..

The next four games are

West Brom Away
Palace at Home
Liverpool Away
Man United Away

I would suggest unless the next two are won then we are going to be in a very bleak Autumn

Mark Testrow
15 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:58:38
Agree 100% with Jim Benning.

Utter shite defending; also, Baines I thought was shocking again. We donÂ’t seem to pose any threat from corners or set-pieces like we used to...

Kelvin Thomas
16 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:58:10
Never seen Jagielka so poor. Completely out of it today. So many errors.
Dean Adams
17 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:08:23
James

I wish, Alderweireld is solid.

Geoff Evans
18 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:40:01
Just seen the champions elect they had another gear and used it. Our shortcomings were clinically exposed by some world class players.
Having said that some of our football was top drawer and a joy to watch, unfortunately weÂ’re carrying players that get exposed against the best. We need a player who bleed blue!
Rick Tarleton
19 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:06:50
The two centre backs look lost and their decision-making is appalling, but the way we play with two wing backs rather than full backs leaves them very exposed. If McCarthy or Barry doesnÂ’t pick up the attacking midfielders then Distin and Jagielka are left caught between going to meet the midfielders and risking leaving the opposing strikers in space. Today this set-up was brutally exposed. Coleman and Baines , gifted as they are must not forget the defensive side of their role.
Colin Glassar
20 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:09:00
10 points from those games Jim. Easy.
Dean Adams
21 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:09:07
JIm

I really cannot agree with your assesments. Rom played well today, Mirallas was immense. Coleman was strong and quick. If anybody let us down today, it was without a shadow of a doubt, Lady Luck. She was certainly not giving us the rub today and that can really turn a game.

Dennis Ng
22 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:08:29
We need defensive help, structurally and tactically. I think we have the players for a good season and just in a bad run. We can all panic and start worrying or just look at this as 3 bad games. And what the hell with all the talk of fitness? ThatÂ’s preseason talk, not now! ThatÂ’s a poor excuse! If it is fitness (and defensive problems), we need help in the backroom now!

EtoÂ’o looks like an astute signing, and really giving his all. BesicÂ’s backheel definitely did him no favors but we didnÂ’t see much otherwise. IÂ’m sure us wishing Stones playing will bite back at us when he lets in some easy goals, but hell, let him play!

Lyndon Lloyd
23 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:14:45
Sven Claes of HLN in Belgium has been insistent the past couple of days that there is nothing to the rumours linking Alderweireld with Everton.

In any case, there seem to be mixed reports on just how good a defender he is. I havenÂ’t seen enough of him to say one way or the other but I will be interested to see if a centre half does come in before the deadline.

DuffyÂ’s sale suggests there might be.

Richard Nelson
24 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:09:56
Coleman great today, Naismith, Mirallas, McGeady and EtoÂ’o not bad !
Brent Stephens
25 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:14:56
Jags and Distin filled me with dread all game, and not only today. But Stones to some extent and certainly Alcaraz would also not settle my nerves defensively. Shit creek - now where was that paddle?

I am one who has been calling for Besic to get on so I am mightily embarrassed by his give-away goal. But I still think this guy will do well for us.

Peter Morris
26 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:09:37
Just back from the game. Agree lots of positives going forward , but Oh my God how poorly the team defended, together with a fair degree of ill fortune. That said,Lukaku gives the ball away in a dangerous position and the ballÂ’s in the net, and enough has already been said about BesicÂ’s foolhardy first touch. Thank God for the international break! I think Roberto needs to sacrifice one of the wingers(probably McGeady,and Seamus is as good as a second winger anyway) and bring either Besic or Gibson in to shore up the midfield, at least until some dented self confidence is repaired! Onward Blues, plenty of teams will lose to Chelsea this year.
Robert Collins
27 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:12:24
Jags needs a rest (heÂ’s psychologically all over the place) and we need to get another central defender (or 2) in before the deadline, for competitions sake.

What Besic did was ridiculous, but I can see RobertoÂ’s logic in bringing him on, the game was already lost! Would we want him to come on 1-1 in the derby and do that? HeÂ’s got that one out the way, letÂ’s hope he can learn.

Derek Knox
28 Posted 30/08/2014 at 20:54:51
I have basically got to agree with all the comments thus far !

Christopher@2 opened the thread so succinctly, by stating a defeat with positives, or words to that effect, if that is possible.

Well yes it is, the positives, the attacking play, the negatives, the defence. While I appreciate the defence on the whole is a team effort, the midfield and the forwards, could not be blamed.

But the central defensive partnership, and Tim to a degree, proved today that they are simply past their sell-by-date. Although in mitigation Distin improved slightly as the game went on.

I have always maintained, that it is of little use, to create, through hard work and guile, a goal at one end, that is all too easily snuffed out by circus defending at the other.

I am still reeling, but in defence of Mo (back heel first touch) which led to an instant Chelsea response. Why was he coming on with two minutes or less of normal time remaining?

I think a mention for Naismith, Mirallas, Coleman and EtoÂ’o wouldnÂ’t really go amiss, they were far better than their team-mates today.

I suppose another positive would be the Global Marketing, the neutrals would have loved watching that, just a pity that none of us are neutral.

James Hill
29 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:17:31
The sky is falling on my head.
Colin Glassar
30 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:19:07
Dennis Ng, Big Dunc seems to having a positive effect on our forwards it might be a good idea to bring a former player back as a defensive coach. David Weir perhaps?
Gavin Johnson
31 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:16:09
I donÂ’t understand the calls for Shawcross. We may as well have kept Duffy if thatÂ’s the kind of defender youÂ’ll believe will take us forward; tough, strong in the air, yada yada. I think heÂ’s good but isnÂ’t he a bit of a hoof ball merchant??
Ste Traverse
32 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:14:35
I usually hate it when players and managers come out with Â’taking positives out of a defeatÂ’ but there was plenty for us today.

Some of our attacking play was a joy to watch, on that performance we would have battered most other sides in the Premier League.

However, our defending resembled something straight out of the Zingari League, Jags, for one, needs a spell gathering splinters.

Naismith was the stand out player for us. What a transformation in that lad since he was the fans number one scapegoat.

Christopher Wallace
33 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:20:20
Richard 10

Lukaku definitely lacked fitness and sharpness today.

However, his touch, control and link up passes were fine. He also deserves credit for creating the space for a lot of our great attacking play. Not sure what game you were watching.

Jim Bennings
34 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:14:36
Dean

You canÂ’t blame Lady Luck when you concede 6 at home,

If there was such a thing asday Luck she would probably score a free header against us.

Anthony Jones
35 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:16:35
Blackpool under Holloway. Great going forward. Too much space left at the back. ItÂ’s easy to blame the centre backs but in this game you defend as a team of 11. Still, much more fun than watching MoyesÂ’ boys lose 1-0.
Robert Pierpoint
36 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:27:19
Agree with Anthony Jones #36. Although it is clear that the centre halves are not playing well, the worry is that it is as much about the set up. When teams counter attack, it quickly becomes 4vs 5 situations. Our full backs are so advanced we are really open to the counter attack. I know that we were chasing the game today, but We need to be careful not to be too gung-ho at times.
Keith Glazzard
37 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:23:23
ThereÂ’s no way Roberto can spin it. Six goals is six goals. Plus four others so far. A change has to be made, and I canÂ’t help feeling that Besic has to be part of it.

I felt sorry for Naismith and Mirallas today. They gave everything and deserved better.

John Malone
38 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:14:39
Weird game, weird feeling walking away, nowhere near the same disappointment as the Arsenal game. Obviously some real concerns about the goals conceded and the lack of closing down in and around our area but on the other hand I would take the scoreline with a pinch of salt, up until hazard made it 3-1 we were right in the game had 25 mins possession and unlucky not to be level.

If we make it 2-2 its a different game, the fact we went 3-1 down meant we had to go for it and leave ourselves open and against a quality side like this new Chelsea side we paid the price.

IÂ’ll start worrying after the West Brom and Palace games.

On another point, Diego Costa showed Lukaku how a real centre forward should play, Lukaku’s real down side to me is his mentality – he need’s a good slap off big Dunc and to start playing with some fire and aggression.

Dave Harper
39 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:16:13
Plenty of positives, but have to agree that no confidence at the back. Distin seemed to be hanging back (probably waiting for Jagielka to make a mistake) potentially playing people on-side. Leighton Baines kept backing off players leading to their 4th goal. Besic will want to forget his first touch in the Premier League.

Positives were EtoÂ’o, Mirallas and Naismith and if you look at the standard of the midfield and attacking play, we were a hell of a lot better than we have been for a while.

Martin Mason
40 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:21:49
Conclusions:

1) Everton cannot play 4-3-3, what an embarrassment;

2) Everton canÂ’t play 3 at the back unless possibly Stones is one of them;

3) McGeady should not be at EFC;

4) we are in trouble despite the pre-season euphoria.

Dennis Ng
41 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:22:28
Colin, agree. Possibly more than that for backroom adds would be good. We had a small squad for years so perhaps that transition to a bigger squad and some key backroom personnel losses in the offseason is what really hurt us now? Some food for thought really.

We were suspect of RMÂ’s defensive thought but perhaps another thought is, do we have enough in the backroom to ensure instructions and maintenance is enough? Surely we love what RM brings to the club but we need to staff based on his skillset too. IÂ’m sure heÂ’s not a superhuman that can do all things backroom by himself.

Reason I say that is, the way I see it, the midfield structure today is subpar at best, pretty much why the floodgates are open. We were attacking, yes, but the transition back to defence is horrible...They play well in good stretches but am often caught napping at the worst possible moments.

Bad things happen but it can be taken easier if there are huge improvements from then on.

Matt Muzi
42 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:10:11
ItÂ’s now Roberto time, he has some serious decisions to make.

Clearly teams now know how weÂ’re going to play, so do we need to use another formation.

The defence needs sorting out, can we afford to have Stones warming the bench, when JagÂ’s looks lost.

I think we could end up regretting paying 㿈 million for Lukaku & after his recent performances, (certainly now weÂ’ve got EtoÂ’o), I think there needs to be serious consideration to sticking him on the bench to start.

As the fella sat in front of me today said, "WeÂ’re turning into Wigan."

Neil Roberts
43 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:36:55
Competition in defence is so definitely needed.
Peter Laing
44 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:37:04
Why all the hate towards McGeady, he provided an expert pass today which dissected the Chelsea defence for NaismithÂ’s goal.
Stephen Brown
45 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:39:49
Martin - I thought McGeady had a decent game - directly involved in 2 of our goals! I don't think he should be a starter but good squad player I'd suggest ?!
Bill Gall
46 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:27:46
After three games making the same defensive mistakes plus allowing the midfield to be overun Mr Martinez says he is disappointed with uncharateristic mistakes in this game .

Get a grip man you are fully responsible for the line ups the players and the system we play and if you are not aware of the mistakes over the last 3 games there is something fundamentaly wrong with what you have been watching.

Goals are what we want to see but it is the defence that win the games or earn a draw. We can not play in the Europa league with a cavalier attitude and allow the opposition to come to Goodison and score.

We need a midfield general to distribute the ball foreward instead having our defensive midfielders win the ball and then pass either sideways or backwards. Everton also need a strong vocal captain to light a fire under some of the under performers.

One of the top defensive back 4 from last season should not suddenly become poor unless the system that they played before has been changed.At this time Everton should bring in a top defensive coach before it is to late.

Clive Rogers
47 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:38:40
Barry looks past it to me. Ronnie Goodlass slated him on Merseyside and he’s right. His pace has gone so he’s stopped making tackles. To offer him 3 years and 㾶m was ludicrous, people were saying he was finished after the 2010 world cup when Ozil left him for dead.

Lukaku looks massively overpriced at the moment, poor touch and complete lack of intelligent movement. Eto’o showed him up today.

John Beesley
48 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:10:39
Worst game I have ever seen Jagielka play.

Distin is not as fast as he used to be, does Pienaar make Baines look good because he looks like an average full back without him.

Just cannot defend like that against the next Champions in my opinion, we better had sort out the defending soon or we are going to be like KeeganÂ’s Newcastle and we all know what they won.

James Stewart
49 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:57:48
Utter shambles. IÂ’m furious at Martinez. If that is going "eye to eye" he can stick it where the sun donÂ’t shine. Tactically battered by Mourinho and we are looking more and more like a Wigan side. Great attacking but all counts for nothing as we are utterly shambolic at the back. To defend like that was totally unprofessional and unacceptable.

Jim Bennings
50 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:55:02
Eto'o is world class.

You could see as soon as he came on his touch his movement his goal.

Lukaku is still young and learning but for me he looks worryingly immobile, he doesn't look like he can do the basics of retrieving the ball, back to goal gathering it and controlling it, it just isn't stocking with him at the minute.

Naismith is a joy to watch, nit only does the lads run through brick walls but you never feel he is going to miss when a chance presents itself.

The defence has badly badly let the team down today, that goes for all the back five plus the midfielders who are meant to be holding their own.

Oh well another two weeks now before we can shit ourselves st the prospect of being bombarded by West Brom and then Neil Warnock's (oh no) alehouse style of play, which is liable to fuck with our heads..

Can't really see his we stem the tide at the minute though, time will tell but it's certainly been a sheer avalanche of goals conceded over the last 10 league games going back to last season.

Kevin Tully
51 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:00:41
Don't ya just love Twebber's? Every fecker shouting for Besic, but suddenly, no mention of the boy wonder?

Hate so say it guys, but hindsight, and jerky knees rule.

Gary Heywood
52 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:29:21
A shambolic defensive display from goalkeeper to centre forward from start to finish. Our ball retention and passing was poor. Our lack of challenges was poor, we basically watched Chelsea pass their way into our goal.

Too many players show that they're really average when we are chasing a game, McGeady, Naismith... Our midfield is sterile and predictable without Barkley.

Martinez has not identified and replaced aging players: Howard, Osman, Jagielka, Distin, Barry. Martinez hasn't prepared the players properly, physically and mentally, for top performances from the off. He's letting matches go away from us and not using the squad when change is obviously needed.

I'd drop Howard, Jagielka, Barry, McGeady and Lukaku and bring in Robles, Stones, Besic, Atsu and Eto'o for the next game.

Tony Hill
53 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:10:24
Kevin, it was a stupid touch from Besic but the lad is class and should not be judged on a two-minute appearance. I for one would like him to start. It is clearly true that Jagielka and Distin are struggling but the real difference from last season is the much weaker efforts from McCarthy and Distin. It is clear that Barry can only last 60 minutes and McCarthy looks distracted to me and is becoming Wilkins like in his sideways passing.
Chris Gould
54 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:07:58
Lukaku can score goals, that's undeniable, but as others have said, he cannot hold the ball up or dribble with it. It's like watching a big kid who's just starting out. His coordination is shocking. The ball gets stuck under his feet or just bounces off.

We had no luck today. Their 2nd goal was offside, 3rd goal was a lucky own goal, 4th goal took a deflection. We hit the bar and post.

Things didn't go our way, but the defending was so poor we deserved what we got. To conce,de 10 goals in 3 games is just shocking. I for one am worried. I would like to see Gibson back. He has the ability to take control of games. We miss him.

Ste Traverse
55 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:35:08
Chris #55

We did have luck today as Howard should have been sent off for handling outside his area.

Why he didn't just boot it clear is beyond me.

Paul Ferry
56 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:41:12
Phew Gary! (#53): "IÂ’d drop Howard, Jagielka, Barry, McGeady and Lukaku and bring in Robles, Stones, Besic, Atsu and EtoÂ’o for the next game."

You wonÂ’t get Howard/Robies past the lads and lasses on here but you do show exactly why we need to sign a new keeper and a new central defender. Both are essential. But sometimes I think that Bobby looks at the defence and goalie situations, rubs his hands and shouts Â’sortedÂ’!

Ian Riley
57 Posted 30/08/2014 at 21:56:09
Today, we played the League Champions and not many teams will score 3 goals against them. May I remind you that leaking goals started at the end of last season: Palace, Man City, and pre-season games. Sadly the defending side needs looking at (saying the bleeding obvious) in terms of the defensive midfielders.

Thank god we have two weeks to sort out the problem. For the first time, scoring goals is not the problem. Today it could have been 6-6 or 3-10, the manager needs to bring in Stones and Besic to give some pace in the defensive half. Also, a kick up the arse is needed as those individual errors were shocking by international players.

All those moaning regarding Lukaku need to remember he is still very young and having Eto’o to mentor him will be to our benefit. The team philosophy has changed considerably during the past 14 months and the manager needs to find a balance. Today was a freak result: 2-0 down after 5 minutes was always going to open the game, the game plan was dead.

It’s going to be an interesting season: after three matches, 10 goals against, and 7 scored! On a lighter note, I have removed Tim Howard from my fantasy league team!

West Bromwich Albion next?

Paul Ferry
58 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:54:55
Besic has to start at The Hawthorns.
Gary Creaney
59 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:37:22
If Roberto is worth his salt at all he'll bring in another CB, a Ron Vlaar type someone with proper steel that dominates for the majority of the game. Unfortunately Jags and distin get dominated too easily. I've no problem with loads of attacking from the full backs, hell we suffered too much caution from the previous regime. Yes our CBs will get exposed from it, no doubt, but that just means we need better ones.
If we managed to snatch a point from that game it would have been barely deserved, terrible terrible luck on a number of fronts, 68% possession, Eto'o looking good.
Let's hope for a good defensive signing and the international break actually suiting us this time round followed by 2 wins over West Brom and Palace to get motoring.
Does Colin Glasser know anything of the Alderweireld link or anything else for that matter?
Clive Rogers
60 Posted 30/08/2014 at 22:45:24
Ian, #58,

We paid 㿈 million for Likaku, which is only ٢M less than Chelsea paid for Costa. There was no comparison today. For such a fee you expect better control and movement than he has shown all season. He doesn’t even look like a good prospect.

I’m beginning to think Mourinho saw us coming.

Ady Haggar
61 Posted 30/08/2014 at 23:00:44
Well I hope we have seen the last of Jagielka, dreadful, and maybe all of those crying out for Besic can see why now!! He had no one around him and wanted to be flash!!!! Twat. IÂ’am so mad, I thought we were the better team.

IÂ’m mad because we have been lazy in transfer market, we paid 㾹M over book for Lukaku, Dawson goes for ١.5M!!! Why didnÂ’t we get him, Curtis Davies probably about ٢M, Ben Arfa off to Birmingham, I could have had improved that team fore half the price!!!!

Roger Helm
62 Posted 30/08/2014 at 23:46:07
Poor old Jags has lost it all – form, fitness, confidence, judgement - had a hand in most of the goals conceded today – and has to be rested in favour of Stones.

The two fullbacks need to spend more time on their defensive duties and the DMs need to up their game to protect the CBs. A few clean sheets are the priority now. If Barry runs out of steam Besic should come on sooner. I bet he'll not try anything flash for the rest of this season. Gibson should be available soon as well.

The attack seems in good shape – Naismith, Mirallas, Eto'o, Lukaku and Atsu will get lots of goals this year. Let's not forget Chelsea are a great side now with Costa and Fabregas, and the scoreline flattered them a bit with a streaky og, a gift form Besic and one which was offside.

As I said before, I don't have any confidence in RM's defensive coaching. It's all very well attacking gung-ho but you are asking for trouble against the likes of Chelsea. I can't understand those who prefer a 4-4 draw to a 1-0 win. I know which I prefer.

Ian Riley
63 Posted 30/08/2014 at 23:21:20
Mr Rogers (#61),

Lukaku at Everton and West Bromwich Albion, scored double figures. He doesn't set the fee and was bought by Chelsea for 㾾M. They wanted a profit considering he was the highest goal scorer at both clubs. Comparing the type of striker Everton and Chelsea can buy makes no sense, Costa to Everton, fee up front no champions league and no chance of winning the league. Costa's salary is double that of Lukaku and yes he is a better player at the moment. Bringing in eto'o will take the pressure of him and yes Lukaku still has much to learn.

The manager is trying to bring players that suit Everton at this time. No champions league restricts the player you can attract and salary paid. Do you think the signings we have made are due to the manager or the club? Sadly we will pay over the top fees if the club want to move to the next level.

Players will be overpriced based on need and market forces. The selling club will know how desperate a club is for the a players services. Fellaini to Man Utd comes to mind, 㿇M! One might say what goes around comes around!

My fear is, if we don't win anything this season or a top five finish, it will mean selling players to balance the books.

Raymond Fox
64 Posted 30/08/2014 at 23:50:03
I don't see ANY mention of the opposition! Their players are at Chelsea for a reason, and its not because their poor players.

It pisses me off, every goal that's scored is supposed to be because of bad defending! The through ball for Chelsea's first was perfect, Costa timed his run, 1-0. Ivanovic should have been given offside 2-0. We now had a mountain to climb, what shall we do, all get behind the ball and try to keep it at 2-0?

Before the season started, we were assessed as the 7th best team in the league; we were well 2nd favs to win this game!

We all knew some of our players are past their best, so that's no great surprise; some are saying we need a class midfielder and two good defenders – of course it would help... but the manager will know that too – but where's the money coming from?

It's always a famine or a feast on here; we're either wonderful or the worst team in the world!

For a change I thought MOTD summed the game up very well.

Tony Twist
65 Posted 31/08/2014 at 00:22:36
Martinez has been given the money for the players he wanted and first and foremost he is letting us down so there should be no complaints there. Two down after 3 minutes is an absolute disgrace and then for Martinez to admit they will all have to go back to basics.... after the diabolical pre-season it has taken till now to concede this whereas the majority of us that are realists have known it for a while.

I have no confidence that Martinez could buy in a fix to the defensive problems, he'll probably take a chance on someone with promise with a history of injuries. West Brom will be a true reflection of how poor we truly are, or are not.

Bob Parrington
66 Posted 31/08/2014 at 00:51:32
At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time..............

Roberto (listen!) STRENGTHEN THE DEFENCE!

Now, 10 goals against in 3 games. OMG it's been so obvious for so long.

Samuel Eto'o - great start!

Colin Malone
67 Posted 31/08/2014 at 00:51:13
Sorry Tim Howard, but your time is up.
Come in Peter Czech, asap.
Gavin Johnson
68 Posted 31/08/2014 at 00:53:08
Ady #62 I think you're being a bit over critical of Lakaku, he's not hit form yet and we'd have never have got him for the 㾻m you're suggesting he's worth (remember Shane Long cost Hull 㾸m recently) Lukaku's only just turned 21 and got one of the best goals for age returns in Europe.

Besides fitness he's been played more on the right side. I honestly think some people on this forum are really fickle, we're not the RS!! We're lucky to have him. And speaking of Hull they'd never sell Davis for ٢m, it'd be triple that price the way the RS and United have inflated transfer prices this summer.

Yes the defending was abysmal at times. What worries me is how much of this decline in the Jags/Distin partnership is down to age and loss in form or defensive coaching. It's probably more worrying if its the latter cos it'll mean that we've abandoned the solid foundations that OFM made. While I'm all for the expansive football, I don't want us to become another Blackpool or Wigan albeit better.

That's probably an overreaction as we've played a hungry newly promoted team and two title challengers. If we're still shipping in the goals after the WBA and Palace games. I will be worried.

By the time of the aforementioned games we should hopefully have Stones playing and another option from deadline day. I really hope that we give Jags a break until he can get back in the team on merit rather than his reputation of the last few years.

Joe O'Brien
69 Posted 31/08/2014 at 01:09:53
Crazy game. A lot of good play. We played some lovely stuff for long periods but we were brutal at the back with Jags with the most errors. He had a shocking game. I thought Distin was actually okay and Coleman was very good. I don't know who earlier said Coleman and McCarthy had bad games?? Unreal... don't know what match they were watching. K

ev was a treat throughout the match. McGeady is way too slow, he's a pass behind every time. I know he set it up for Naisy but still hope that Atsu takes his place soon.

I think Mo's friendly debut went to his head with his heart first touches. He'll learn from that. Thank god the game was actually gone by then. He'll still be a great signing.

Final word on our captain. I'd seriously drop him for Stones. Stones might make a few mistakes but I reckon not as much as Jags and in the long run we'll benefit. Jags has been poor for a long time.

Overall I think it is kinda positive. If we cut out the stupid mistakes we'll be good. We scored 3 good goals.

Nigel Gregson
70 Posted 31/08/2014 at 01:35:32
For those who are hating on McGeady, did you even watch the game? He created 2 out of the 3 goals. He's unfit and fat, but he delivers goals.
Nigel Gregson
71 Posted 31/08/2014 at 01:48:07
Raymond Fox 65 - best analysis of the situation so far. However, it's not just today's shambles that worries me, it's the leaking points in won games (Arsenal, Leceister) that will actually ruin the season.
Gavin Johnson
72 Posted 31/08/2014 at 01:47:54
Sorry meant Southampton got robbed by Hull for the 㾸m they paid for Shane Long.

And yes, Nigel, I agree with you about McGeady. He has moments of class but for every sublime moment there seems to be equal amounts of ineptitude. He's good but I understand what some of the Irish and Celtic fans meant now; him frustrating with some of his decision-making.

Gavin Ramejkis
73 Posted 31/08/2014 at 01:49:00
Conceding 10 goals in 3 games isn't an uncharacteristic day at the office its piss poor defending. Distin's age is finally coming home to roost and Jagielka doesnt seem to be able to play this formation of football this season, his positioning and ball play are all over the place.

Piss poor officiating which should have seen Fabregas sent off for plenty of off-the-ball antics, Costa should have seen his second yellow and been booked for the blatant dive which the ref ignored and was followed quickly by their fifth virtually walked into the net.

Very few positives from the game whatsoever besides Naismith who yet again bust a gut non-stop and deserved a goal with a great finish. Mirallas got better after the first 10 to 15 minutes of dross. Eto'o showed his class and played really well. Howard very lucky not to have walked for his catch outside the area and his handbags with Costa.

Harold Matthews
74 Posted 31/08/2014 at 02:42:47
Did Barry get out of a walk? Or is he ordered to stay central while McCarthy tries to help both sides of the defence and ends up knackered?
Si Cooper
75 Posted 31/08/2014 at 03:29:16
Harold, I would say yes, he did move about a fair bit. He seemed to get stuck in and made himself available as much as he normally does.

As much as McCarthy? I wouldn't have thought so but then again I wouldn't expect him to. There is a clear price to pay when fielding a player of his age who has never exactly been quick about the park. That is one reason I thought we would have seen a lot more of Besic in all three games so far, and also why I was obviously a lot less thrilled than many on here when he signed this summer. Not disappointed, just not jumping up and down and shouting "Yes, Gareth Barry has signed!"

I am of the opinion that we could do an awful lot worse than Gareth Barry but also perhaps get someone better. I would rather have two 'McCarthys' if we could get another (is Besic another McCarthy?). That is why I was hopeful we would sign another young, mobile defensive midfielder even before Ross Barkley got injured.

Still not sure Barry was guilty of coasting today though.

Si Cooper
76 Posted 31/08/2014 at 03:49:42
There is a world of difference between defensive organisation and defensive mistakes. Four of their goals are directly attributable to individual mistakes; Jagielka's attempt to play Costa offside when Fabregas had already controlled the ball, McCarthy letting Hazard skip past him and losing Ramires, and Besic's terribly executed back-heel. Even Ivanovic's offside goal could possibly have been snuffed out if Leighton Baines had stayed closer to him whilst still playing him offside. Matic's was a speculative shot that could easily have been blocked rather than deflected into the bottom corner.

There was nothing wrong with the team's set-up overall so calling Martinez naive or even negligent is unbelievable. His comments after the game were fair and it is understandable that he would mention the positives as well as the negatives. We scored 3 very good goals - and it could have been more - against a team who hardly made a mistake.

This is a fantastic Chelsea team, strong throughout (including all of their bench) and better than they have been for a few years now. We will play teams of this quality a handful of times this season. Mourinho was sincere in his after match comments because he knows we gave them a game even though we shot ourselves in the foot at times.

No-one without a grudge would pick out Distin, Barry, McGeady or Lukaku for special criticism on that performance. They may not have produced really good displays but they all worked hard, did some good things and didn't really do much wrong.

None of us like to lose and we all hate that we conceded 6 goals, but to not be able to see anything positive in that game is mind-blowing.

Steven Telford
77 Posted 31/08/2014 at 03:52:03
It’’s not just a "player" issue, it’s just as much a tactical issue. At one point Distin was the highest player up the field. And for their 3rd Goal, did you see McCarthy completely withdraw and leave the challenge for a player (Coleman, I think) who was in a much worse position to deal with it.
Steve Brown
78 Posted 31/08/2014 at 06:08:13
This game was eerily similar to Liverpool away last season. Quickly fall behind and then overcommit trying to chase the game. We are hopeless when we lose our shape and positional discipline, especially against a clever counter-attacking side.

I've said it on other posts, we need a centre half and a right back before this transfer window closes. Jagielka and Distin are are in steady decline, Stones is developing, Duffy has been sold and Alcaraz is not good enough. Nor is Hibbert even remotely an adequate cover for Coleman.

Jim Harrison
79 Posted 31/08/2014 at 07:17:07
Not sure if anyone else caught this, but in Terry's post-match press conference he refers to dropping points at "lesser" teams. What a disrespectful dick!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Axhg-41TY

Mark Palmer
80 Posted 31/08/2014 at 07:23:14
It's not in Martinez's tactics that were are weak defensively, but in his team selection. Distin and Jagielka are just too easy to out fox in the box. Decent CFs must love playing against them. Of course the whole defence was weak which didn't help, inc our defensive midfielders.
Positive point; good we can sort this shambles out early in the season. Although, we beat Chelsea and Arsenal at home last season, so we're already 5 points down on our last tally.
Peter Barnes
81 Posted 31/08/2014 at 08:20:39
Let's face it, 2 down in the space of a couple mins totally set the scene for that game. My problem is that it was not too much of a surprise. OK, the 2nd goal was offside but we were the beneficiary of an offside last week. These things happen.

It's the basic defending principles of marking up, tackling and clearing your lines... none of which is occurring in the Everton defence. Tactics are irrelevant when you are not doing the basics.

We do have a squad of players so now is the time to start using some of them.

Joe Bibb
82 Posted 31/08/2014 at 08:33:14
Not only Distin and Jags but when they are beaten Howard is on the floor before the forward even kicks the ball.

We need more defenders who tackle and not back off and back off. There are too many weak players, including Baines – he is frail defensively.

Barry needs to put his foot in more often, Chelsea didn't worry about getting stuck in.

More sweat and more aggression is what is needed in defence; until then, we will be brushed aside even by Everton Ladies.

George Pearson
83 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:02:30
Let's face it, we defended poorly and it cost us big time.

Mirralas and McGeady we're excellent. Naismith played well too. Some of the football was breathtaking, but I am starting to worry that we haven't got a leader at the back. There's no-one to bully opposing strikers; we need a good old-fashioned stopper.

Denis Richardson
84 Posted 31/08/2014 at 08:59:53
Lot of angry posts on here and I can understand why. However, looking back at the game, I am going to treat it as a freak result. It can only be that when you're 2-0 down at home inside the first 3 minutes. (Ivanovic may has been just offside but the goal happened because all three defenders near the penalty spot rushed towards Ramires and left him unmarked.)

2 points from the first 3 games was not the plan but it is what it is and should hopefully give all the players and manager a massive reality check and big size 10 up the backside.

Eto'o will score loads of goals for us this season, which is a bonus; he may be getting on but his movement and instinct is still world class.

Time for a two-week break and see if we sign anyone else in the next 2 days.

I've been giving Man Utd fans stick but they're above us in the table!

Clive Rogers
85 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:19:51
Joe,

BarryÂ’s legs have gone. He just canÂ’t get there any more to put his foot in. Watch him, heÂ’s playing at jogging pace. HeÂ’s there till 2017 and will be 36 then, but will be 㾶M better off thanks to our generous chairman who should know better.

Chelsea only offer over-30s 1-year contracts.

Mike Keating
86 Posted 31/08/2014 at 00:58:34
Ian @ 64

Good analysis – it’s nothing to do with the headline fee and all to do with attracting a top class striker with CL and ridiculous wages. We are just not in the mix.

After HowardÂ’s confrontation, I donÂ’t think Costa would ever want to come to Goodison.

Ron Sear
87 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:36:47
I canÂ’t bear to comment on the match, much of it has been said already.

Just one thing I noticed before the game: the difference in attitude in the warm-up training before the match was very noticeable,. The Chelsea warm-up routine was highly disciplined, almost military in nature and they were taking it seriously. They spent a considerable amount of time passing at mid-distance rapidly.

Looking across at Everton, they were relaxed in fact almost light-hearted. They were clearly just going through the motions. IÂ’m pretty sure which routine would give a team the psychological and cutting edge at the start of a game.

Mark Pendleton
88 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:42:16
So-called fans criticising McGeady or Lukaku - get a grip! We werenÂ’t defensively naive in terms of a gung-ho approach that left us open at the back. The goals we conceded were easily preventable.

I cannot criticise any of our attacking players for that performance. The defence simply wasnÂ’t organised and we werenÂ’t holding the line we held last season, players are stepping out at the wrong times.

Do I think Jags needs to be taken out of the firing line? Possibly, yes. These are the same players though who had such a great record last season, so we canÂ’t blame ability and we canÂ’t blame the "Martinez approach". Distin hasnÂ’t lost his pace either so they just need to work hard at getting organised again.

Derek Knox
89 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:29:53
Having calmed down a bit, and seeing the replays quite often, I think the result yesterday, while not pleasing any of us, may just serve as a timely reminder of just how and where we need to strengthen.

The only two things that really worry me, though, are that Roberto (love the man) has failed to see that the defence in general was far from adequate to venture on for another season, with Europa League too. There has been little mention till recently of any defensive reinforcements. We on TW have mentioned this so many times, and have found it almost glaringly obvious, that drastic measures were needed regarding the centre-back and goalkeeping positions.

The other worry is a case of timing: the window is perilously close to shutting, we have let Duffy go (not that IÂ’m saying he was the answer, but was at least cover), so will we get, if any, the right players at the right price?

I think personally we still need, two centre-backs, a goalkeeper, and an attacking midfielder. I know that sounds drastic, but Tim has shown too many mistakes in both pre-season and the three games we have played to date. The centre-back position more or less speaks for itself: two great servants who are getting older and subsequently making more errors, and are losing the pace a tad.

Attacking mid, while the forward slots look to have been sorted (barring injury, and Traffic due back soon), I still feel we need someone to feed that ball through, or out wide with accuracy, it may be we already have him in Besic, he certainly has the passing accuracy, itÂ’s just whether they would consider pushing him forward a bit more.

Andy Meighan
90 Posted 31/08/2014 at 09:46:02
Christopher 2

"Lukaku linked play really well." – What game was you watching? He was a disgrace, his first touch for a so-called international is abysmal, and as for his work rate... well, let’s not go there, hey.

I said at the time we’ve paid well over the odds for this imposter. And nothing I’ve seen since will make me alter that view. He could do well to learn off the ever willing Naismith – not the greatest player at the club, but by god does he put a shift in, and his finishing is exemplary. In fact, Eto’o did more when he came on than the self-confessed "complete striker".

IÂ’ve had a bet with 3 of my mates after the match that he wonÂ’t score 10 league goals all season and IÂ’ve got a feeling IÂ’m going to be a few quid better off come May. And please donÂ’t say, "Well, heÂ’s not fit" because he shouldnÂ’t be playing. He actually cost us 2 goals because of his poor touch when receiving the ball in the middle of the park.

A truly shocking performance defensively and if Martinez canÂ’t see that defense needs shaking up, he really is deluded. 10 goals conceded in 3 games is atrocious, it really is. I feel embarrassed this morning, I really do.

John Crook
91 Posted 31/08/2014 at 10:29:09
I just watched the extended highlights, fully sober. Unbelievable the amount of ease Chelsea scored with.

I was calling for John Stones to be starting on the first game of the season (at centre half). Jagielka is way off the pace. Distin isnÂ’t playing much better but our captain is clearly struggling and needs to come out of the firing line now!

IÂ’ve seen Everton play twice as worse than that and still win. There is no need to press the panic buttons just yet but those dropped points have come back to haunt us more than ever. Due to the nature of that defeat, I think itÂ’s fair to say the Martinez Â’honeymoonÂ’ period is over!

Colin Malone
92 Posted 31/08/2014 at 10:20:51
Two defensive midfielders, who stay put as defensive midfielders?????. Chelsea, two defensive midfielders, Matic and Ramires, when attacking, one stays, one goes forward and helps the attack.

Why do we stay square for most of the game?????.

Andrew Hawes
93 Posted 31/08/2014 at 10:34:30
The only positive is that we are only a point worse of than this stage last year, but have played two of the top four sides. Having said that, conceding 10 goals in our first 3 games is relegation form and if it continues we will lose more times than we win.

It is must-win games for the next few weeks as, even at this early stage, we canÂ’t let sides like Spurs and Arsenal go 7 or 8 points clear.

To blame Tim Howard with that excuse of a defence in front off him is quite frankly ridiculous!! He is and has been a solid performer in our side and the only player who seems to be capable of giving out a few bollockings.

Jagielka?? This is not just any player we are on about but the club captain!! DoesnÂ’t lead by example, doesnÂ’t advise or give anyone the verbals, doesnÂ’t interact with the referee about decisions, and has been the player most likely to underperform and make mistakes in a worryingly long time.

Moyes said when he left that Jagielka wasnÂ’t captain material and I tend to agree with him.

Derek Knox
94 Posted 31/08/2014 at 11:14:06
Good point Colin#95 this could work for us but for two factors, it would have to be Barry who would play the more static or deeper positioned of the two, (never been the quickest and getting slower as time progresses) but there is no doubting his ability to read the game.

The other factor is that the defensive Centre Back pairing are all over the place and making it difficult to cover without being over-exposed against pacey forwards, and also incurring a torrent of abuse by us lot on here. I like Barry, and still think he has a lot to offer, with his experience and ability.

Mike Powell
95 Posted 31/08/2014 at 11:43:02
I said after the first two games if we keep defending like we have then we were in for a hiding. Jags and Distin have been woeful; we have got to get a centre half right now – you don’t conceded six goals at home... terrible defending.

There were a few plus points: EtoÂ’o looks class, Mirallas was outstanding, Naismith played well, as did Baines.

Get it sorted, Martinez – that was embarrassing.

Brent Stephens
96 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:01:58
Kevin #52 I think youÂ’ll find IÂ’ve mentioned the boy wonder since the Chelsea game! And others. ThatÂ’s not a knee-jerk from you is it?
Paul Dempsey
97 Posted 31/08/2014 at 11:48:15
Si Cooper (#78),

A concise and fair view. I got back late last night after the game and the 3-hour drive had given me time to reflect. I was surprised at the vehemence of some posts... understandable, obviously born out of passion and frustration, but come on blues...

After 48 years as a match-going blue, I think we have some of the best players in like-for-like positions I have ever seen, a manager who gets the club, and – despite the almost pathological hatred – a chairman who backs the managers... It makes me despair sometimes.

3 goals
A post hit
The bar thumped
A keeper who should have been off early in the first half
68% possession
9 shots with 7 on target
8 corners.......

As mentioned above we came across a better, more expensively assembled team who didnÂ’t have to chase because of a poor start and a couple of errors and deflected goals that sealed our fate.

Ray Roche
98 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:07:34
Ian Riley @64

Ian, Chelsea paid 㾶m for Lukaku, less than they received in loan payments from us and WBA. Yes, he has a good goals to game record but, and I repeat something I said in a previous pre-signing discussion on TW , 㿈m is double what he is worth. Everton, presumably out of desperation , allowed Chelsea to shaft us over the price. You can look at fees for different players and see how we could have improved our squad, both in attack and defence, and still had change from LukakuÂ’s fee. Believe me, IÂ’m glad we have got Lukaku, but IÂ’ve never been happy at the amount we paid.
Thomas Vermaelen (㾻m) , Loic Remy (٦.5m), Eric Dier (٢m). Even Michael Dawson going to Hull for ٢m would have been good cover for Jags, or even played in his place. He couldnÂ’t be any worse.I think we could have spent LukakuÂ’s fee more wisely.

Geoff Evans
99 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:08:16
We can criticise as much as we like but at the end of the day weÂ’ve just seen the best side in the premiership by a country mile. TheyÂ’ll have the premiership sewn up by March. Class players from keeper to the bench. They had another gear we didnÂ’t possess.
After last weeks performance the defensive frailties were there to be exploited and they were.
Colin Glassar
100 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:35:58
The good thing Geoff is this is only the 3rd game of the season. If we can improve our cb pairing we will be more than ok. We are very good going forward, our MF is a match for anyone (bar maybe Chelsea and City), and we will be getting a few players back after the international break. Tighten up the defence and the race is back on.
Bobby Thomas
101 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:18:46
Regarding players for the squad, Stones is first choice cover for right back and central. We need a genuine cover/first team signing.

The squad is not deep enough. Aside from Barkley the only other ball playing mids who can keep it, knit play together and play all across the mid in attacking areas are Ossie and Pienaar. And Ossie cant really do that any more he has to play deeper. They are also both 32, on the wane and picking up injuries.

Therefore if we play a 4-2-3-1, the 3 behind Lukaku are all far too attacking and its more like a 4-2-5 with the full back playing as wing backs ffs!!

Its too much.

We conceded 3 against Palace with an absurd team selection. There is no need to try and blow teams away. We were great going forward yesterday but if you load it the way we did I should hope we would cause them problems.

It was like watching Nigel Benn.

It is at the expense of team shape and discipline. And points. Very boring things and without them you cant win matches.

The centre halves arenÂ’t playing well, but they are under a lot of pressure as are McCarthy and Barry. They have to do pretty much everything. McCarthy got done wide by Hazard yesterday, but if Hazard is presented with McCarthy in a one v one then heÂ’s regularly going to beat him. HeÂ’s made Zabaleta, cracking defender, look a cunt numerous times.

Jags is clearly suffering but I donÂ’t think just playing Stones will cure it. The set up and emphasis is wrong. Its difficult enough trying to cope with Costa without getting pulled all over the show and getting no help, because your trying to blow teams away.

It reminds me a little of those crazy sides Ossie Ardiles used to play when he was Spurs gaffer.

Its too much and Martinez needs to lay off the hippie attacking vibe and get a grip. We will get leathered in Europe if we try this.

We were playing Chelsea and if you open up that much you will get fucked. I saw the team and knew weÂ’d get beat.

Geoff Evans
102 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:43:50
Colin 103, Agreed
Ray Roche
103 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:49:12
"It was like watching Nigel Benn."

More like Tony Benn.

Clive Lewis
104 Posted 31/08/2014 at 12:49:20
I think the problem is the midfield, not sure where people are coming from about Mcgready and lukaku . letÂ’s not forget we scored 3 and were excellent going forward. The problem I believe is the manager. It reminded me of a training game where everyone piles forward to score, leaving the defence exposed. Barry is getting on a bit however if you are expecting to be gung ho going forward you need midfielders who are quick at tracking back.
Peter Morris
105 Posted 31/08/2014 at 13:37:59
Peter(45),
Re: comment Â’hateÂ’ toward McGeady. I donÂ’t see any Â’hateÂ’ a very strong emotion, toward our players here on TW.I suggested sacrificing McGeady for tactical reasons, not because I hate him. Far from it, I love everyone who pulls on our shirt, but I will criticise poor play and/or tactics if I see fit, as is my right through the price of my ticket.
Jon Withey
106 Posted 31/08/2014 at 15:05:55
I see Spurs are having a nightmare and losing by 3 as well.

A nice reminder that every team has its struggles and IÂ’m glad because they were looking like contenders for our spot this year.

At least we scored!

Kunal Desai
107 Posted 31/08/2014 at 15:17:23
What a weekend, we get spanked for 6 and the shite easing to victory. Hate to say it but they will certainly finish above us this season.
Rob Halligan
108 Posted 31/08/2014 at 15:20:39
Agree with Colin #103. At the end of the day it is not a shock getting beat by Chelsea, but the manner of the defeat certainly is. So ok, we only got 2 points, probably should have been 6. After 3 games last season we only had 3 points after a potentially easier start.

CanÂ’t see the defence being like this for too long, and as many are saying we look quite formidable going forward. LetÂ’s hope the 3 in the England squad cry off with a sudden mysterious injury and they can spend the next two weeks sorting these defensive errors out.

Bob Parrington
109 Posted 31/08/2014 at 15:27:25
I feel too many are missing the point in picking on mid-field and attacking players who played OK. Our central defence is crap and crap. Fix it or be doomed. 10 conceded in 3 is not acceptable.
Jim Potter
110 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:27:16
Fantastic game for the neutral - but of course weÂ’re not neutral.

Two down after 3 minutes - but we showed fight and scored some great goals.

Defense needs a lot of extra training time. We havenÂ’t turned rubbish overnight. Weird games happen.

I was more disappointed with the previous two games being given away.

One off side goal, one own goal, one deflected goal and then the Besic bit of silliness. Lady Luck was wearing a different shade of blue yesterday.

Two weeks hard work and weÂ’ll turn the corner.

Mike Price
111 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:37:05
Lukaku needs to lose weight, at least 10 lbs, to regain his pace and sharpness. ItÂ’s so obvious and I canÂ’t understand how this has happened to a 21 year old athlete, itÂ’s a major worry going forward.
Mike Hughes
112 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:38:15
I see Chelsea have signed Remy on a 4 year deal.
They certainly needed to strengthen their attack.

Agree with Rob #111 and Bob #112

IÂ’ll be listening with interest to transfer deadline day.
I think DuffyÂ’s move to Blackburn may be an indicator that someone new is coming in at CB. I hope so.

Other than that, IÂ’m giving football a break until after this international rubbish is out of the way. For once, I think itÂ’s come at the right time for us.

LetÂ’s call everything to date Â’pre-seasonÂ’ and get started proper in a couple of weeks.

Patrick Murphy
113 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:52:36
Kunai - I think we can forget all about CL or even Europa League, I remained optimistic until I read that Everton goals for column after three games is the best it has been since wait for it....1993/94 and we all know how that season panned out. WBA and Palace are now six pointers IÂ’m afraid. I wonder if Gibson will be fit in time for the WBA game as his passing range is very good and perhaps give the McCarthy / Barry axis a rest or wake-up call.
Ray Roche
114 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:58:04
Patrick, Gibson was on the bench yesterday so he should be fit.
Danny Kewley
115 Posted 31/08/2014 at 16:58:33
Agreed on that one Mike(115)
Hopefully we can start the season in a fortnight!!
Jim Bennings
116 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:15:08
Remy cost 18 million less than Lukaku!!

Still canÂ’t help that we have been had by Chelsea there.

Diego Costa only cost 4 million more and thatÂ’s a fella who has done it at the very highest level.

Martinez says heÂ’d have paid 100 million for Lukaku, well letÂ’s hope that he can work him in training over the next few weeks to start doing the basics right, such as his hold up play and ball control which at present is shocking.

Rob Halligan
117 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:10:46
Come on now, Patrick. I would have put you down as better than that mate. To call the next 2 games as 6 pointers is a bit extreme.

Swansea have 100% record and Villa have 7/9 points. I can (almost) guarantee we will finish above these two. We will be fine.

Unless you meant we will take 6 points from WBA and palace.

Jackie Barry
118 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:21:07
OK Remy is ok but he certainly is nothing special. As for Costa while he may have only been 4 million more IÂ’m sure his wages are a lot more and he simply wouldnÂ’t have signed for us at the moment. I think Lukaku will come good again, if Martinez goes for a partnership of him and EtoÂ’o, I can see that getting a fair few goals. Nothing against Nais, he has done great and still has a job, but just the vision EtoÂ’o showed yesterday was pretty awesome. Lukaku and EtoÂ’o just need to develop an understanding of one another.
Kunal Desai
119 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:22:27
Patrick I agree, personally I donÂ’t think we have the strength or depth in quality to finish in the top 4 and on the evidence of the first 3 games a top 6 finish might also allude us. MartinezÂ’s honeymoon period is over, he needs to start fucking cracking a few whips, stop being a gentlemen and start getting ruthless with some of these lot. He needs to tell them either to start performing or look to be shipped out of the club in the near future. Some of the goals conceded were comical, you wouldnÂ’t even see in Sunday league pub team.
Patrick Murphy
120 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:29:13
Rob it was meant as tongue in cheek, however they really are extremely important games now we have only 2 points on the board. I would expect Everton to win both...but we do have a tendency to make life as difficult as possible for ourselves
Jim Bennings
121 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:26:27
The next two are possibly six pointers though depending on what ambitions we have for this season.

If we fail to win against two mediocre opponents (and we had FOUR games against West Brom and Palace last term and didnÂ’t win any) then the next two will seem like mountains to climb.

Anfield and Old Trafford back to back and sandwiched in between a trip to Russia.

Liverpool will simply tear us a new one with the way we defend.

Ok, United ainÂ’t what they used to be but your still not favourites to win there, given the likes of Rooney, Di Maria etc are there against our defence.

After United we then donÂ’t play again until October 18 .

So as you can see mate, failure to win the next two or at least one of them and your more than likely at the end if October without a win.

When would that become a mini crisis??

Certainly donÂ’t ever remember any club that has finished 4th without a victory up to the end of October.

Rob Halligan
122 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:35:08
Agree on the final sentence of your post, Patrick.
Mike Hughes
123 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:30:08
Off-topic but thereÂ’s an interesting article on the BBC website about transfer deadline day panic buys.

5 transfers are cited, 3 of which are of local interest: Fellaini, Arteta and the hilarious transfer of Andy Carroll for a bargain 㿏m (just to make us feel better about the Lukaku deal). By the way, I think / hope Lukaku will come good despite recent form.

The first thing that sprang to mind after reading it was the McCarthy to Man Utd link. HeÂ’s shortly priced to go there with the bookies before Tuesday and United are certainly in splash-the-cash panic mode. Surely we wonÂ’t sell? It would have to be big money (㿀m+) and even then would leave us no time for a replacement. Still, itÂ’ll be an interesting Monday evening potentially.

We have to be looking at additions rather than off-loading.
CB and keeper for me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28835892

Jim Bennings
124 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:38:30
Jackie

The thing with Lukaku though is his whole demeanor.

He never seems to have the ball under control nor does he look convincing when he attempts to run with the ball, he looks nervy and almost to be frank quite lethargic in his movement.

Naismith is playing and finishing like Lukaku should be.

Naismith chases men down and closes defenders down, something else which fails Lukaku too often in my opinion.

Paul Tran
125 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:45:26
We had three strikers out there yesterday. Two of them scored, had good movement, looked lively. The other one cost 㿈m.

I know it was a good wankfest, spending all that money on one player, but what we could have done with that money, given our ageing, creaking, defence is starting to worry me.

At least now Lukaku can be dropped and replaced if he doesnÂ’t buck up.

Al Reddish
126 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:51:48
I know the defence has been terrible so far but does anyone else think with 2 defensive midfielders, they should be doing more closing down before the opposition even get a chance to put the defence under pressure?
Patrick Murphy
127 Posted 31/08/2014 at 17:52:17
Paul if we hadnÂ’t have bought Lukaku on a hire purchase deal we wouldnÂ’t have spent 㿈m on more players it would have been around ٧-㾸 on a striker. Kagawa has returned to Dortmund apparently.
Jim Bennings
128 Posted 31/08/2014 at 18:01:26
Al

Yes I do mate!!

I have said it time ans time again and was screaming it yesterday, how do we concede 6 at home when we have SIX defensive minded players in the team??

The thong that also troubles me is why McCarthy never tries to do more box to box play.

You gave Barry as the holding midfielder but McCarthy is young and full of energy.

He seemed to be more box to box at Wigan.
I never ever see him commiting to our attacks.

Why?

James Elworthy
129 Posted 31/08/2014 at 18:27:58
DuffyÂ’s fee plus Forshaws sell on fee=3.5m
Expect that to be used for loan fees and wages for Alderweireld or Rolando

Al Reddish
130 Posted 31/08/2014 at 18:30:33
I donÂ’t go in for the popular view McCarthy had a good game yesterday compared to some. It wasnÂ’t as poor as others but I thought him and Barry left our defence woefully exposed when surely their first job is to protect the defence. I like McCarthy and believe he will be a fantastic player for us, but as you say Jim, he isnÂ’t box to box for us and we need to see a few more crunching tackles in the middle so as the opposition is shit scared from the first minute.
Dave Pritchard
131 Posted 31/08/2014 at 18:42:28
On Lukaku, I agree that his form is a worry and that we overspent on him. However, I think it is silly to give up on him after 3 games. One thing I believe he has done is to occupy defenders, giving Naismith more space. Maybe on current form they will start looking out for Naisy giving Rom more opportunities.

On Barry, I thought he was prominent in the first half but seemed to disappear in the second. I have to agree with comments about RM not using subs at the right time this season. Something he did really well last season overall.

Jim B (#131), those thongs can be troublesome. I think some of our players had them on yesterday.

Gerry McGuirk
132 Posted 31/08/2014 at 18:58:53
Brought my young lad over from Ireland for his first game. Comments: view from seats were rubbish. Last row in lower deck on Gwladys end behind goal at left corner. If everyone stayed seated we could all see the game....but no....spent half the time holding my holding my young lad up trying in vain to see the game.... Very frustrating. As far as the game went full points for the attack and zero points for the defence. Naismith is a genuine hero .... Iimited skill but unlimited spirit. LetÂ’s hope Roberto makes some wise decisions by midnight. Let reputations count for nothing....
Jim Bennings
133 Posted 31/08/2014 at 19:09:49
I agree with you Al

McCarthy has all the strength and the raw energy to perhaps add more strings to his bow.

I love what he does ans at times last season he had me stating that heÂ’s the best defensive midfielder in England but thereÂ’s times when he needs to start as you say "making those crunching tackles and letting people know heÂ’s going nowhere"

The Anfield Derby in January for instance left me a bit disappointed by his no show, you just wanted desperately for him to go in for the type of howÂ’s yer father crunchers with their midfielders, the type Naismith did yesterday on more than one occasion.

I look at our midfield and think if the wide player donÂ’t create or try to support the forward then in general you never see a shot from McCarthy or Barry, or see them in the box enough.
Barry in particular scored a cracker last season against Norwich, why not try it more?

Peter Cummings
134 Posted 31/08/2014 at 19:53:00
Just an aside to the comments so far, I have just read a Daily Post interview with Martinez before yesterdays hammering, he said Â’Â’ThereÂ’s no way our defence will let the game slip away again in the last few minutes if we are leading v ChelseaÂ’Â’, unfortunately he forgot to mention that instead that defence would give them a 2-0 lead in the first five minutes as well as an OG, methinks he should give up predicting
Jamie Barlow
135 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:18:55
I agree Jim@113. I felt worse after the Leicester and Arsenal games.

Jackie@121. Naismith would be the first name on the team sheet for me.

Jim@124. Pretty miserable post. We could win all four.

Peter Bell
136 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:17:41
RM needs to make some tough management decisions.
The two year contract given to TH suggests to me he may not have the balls to do it.
That was the one time he had the opportunity to show his assertiveness and blew it for me
Harold Matthews
137 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:10:50
Disappointing view for you and your lad but a game to remember. Agree with your conclusions. Big decisions to be made and let reputations count for nothing. Top managers have one thing in common. They are ruthless.
Harold Matthews
138 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:10:50
Disappointing view for you and your lad but a game to remember. Agree with your conclusions. Big decisions to be made and let reputations count for nothing. Top managers have one thing in common. They are ruthless.
Peter Bell
139 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:36:28
Harold, looks like our posts crossed, exactly the point I was trying to make
Kevin Tully
140 Posted 31/08/2014 at 20:37:16
Gerry McGuirk - Try the Top Balcony next time mate, great view for kids up there.
Harold Matthews
141 Posted 31/08/2014 at 22:02:21
Cheers Peter.
Harold Matthews
142 Posted 31/08/2014 at 22:02:21
Cheers Peter.
Andrew Hawes
143 Posted 31/08/2014 at 22:21:08
HereÂ’s one?? Our top eleven for the Europa league!! WeÂ’re not going to get top four with our current style of play. But weÂ’re going to scare the shit out of teams in a knockout set up?? Champions league for the winners??
Laurie Hartley
144 Posted 31/08/2014 at 06:26:53
Watched the full game on Foxtel here in Oz.
When you look at ChelseaÂ’s back four you would have to say they are a formidable unit. Terry love him or hate, him is still some centre half. Yet we still managed to put 3 past them. More than that all three goals were well worked and well taken - and it could have been 5.

So you donÂ’t have to be a football genius to work out the problem is at the back. If the latest gossip is true (Shawcross in) I for one will be happy. He is just what we need - a big, mobile stopper who can head he ball.

There were plenty of positives to take from the game. EtoÂ’o showed his class not only with the way he took his goal but with his movement and eye for a pass. We have got a proper footballer on our hands here.

I thought McGeady played with intelligence and think he should start every game. However I feel RM has some tough decisions to make for the next game surrounding Jags, McCarthy and Lukaku.

Ant Dwyer
145 Posted 01/09/2014 at 01:14:20
CanÂ’t understand why so many of our fans have decided to name Lukaku in our problems. Granted heÂ’s not in his finest form but heÂ’s set up 2 gaols in 3 games and been part of a fruitful attack which has scored 7 in 3.

Our problems for me lay with Barry who is basically too slow and is costing us dearly at the minute. In my opinion, he is going to cause McCarthy to become injured very soon if he keeps having him do a lot of his running. If youÂ’re going to stroll around a park, having people doing your donkey work, you have to score or assist; Barry does neither.

Next up: Jags is clearly out of form and his confidence is total rat shit. Stones is a must for the next game; he needs to be given a run of games and should no longer be held back as Barkley was under Moyes.

Paul Ward
146 Posted 01/09/2014 at 03:04:20
Once again a great variety of doom and gloom plus some unreal optimism from our divided supporters. The facts are, for all who seen the 90 minutes we were well beaten by maybe the best team in the league.

Criticism of some players on the day was justified. What surprises me is most people are singling out Jags and Distin this season only. They have never gelled together. Last season they were exposed with every set piece and helped cost us 4th place.

We have a second-rate goal keeper who has no competition in the club. Why was this not addressed pre season?

Jackie Barry
147 Posted 01/09/2014 at 04:55:13
It seems like Lukaku is injured and maybe this slight niggle has been part of his problem. Anyway I donÂ’t doubt his demeanor, it certainly wasnÂ’t a problem against Arsenal. I think this is a try find who to blame game, you can do that all you want but it wonÂ’t solve the problem. We scored 3 goals against a Chelsea side that are one of the favourites for the title, yet leaked goals like a sieve, thatÂ’s where the problem is, our darn defence. ItÂ’s the area that gives the rest of the team confidence, shows the other how itÂ’s done when you defend a corner or a freekick. It was simply the weakest link on Saturday and has been for the past few weeks.

Jackie Barry
148 Posted 01/09/2014 at 05:00:15
And Paul Ward makes a very good point about Jags and Distin not gelling, they simply donÂ’t work together well and certainly donÂ’t seem to communicate very well on the pitch. Jags is just about the last person, along with Baines who I would choose as captain, there simply too nice.
Chris Wilson
149 Posted 01/09/2014 at 05:54:37
Paul Ward. He may not have any competition, but there is no way-NO WAY Tim Howard is a second rate goalkeeper.
Max Wilson
150 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:13:16
Been numb for a couple of days and now come to see what my fellow Toffees have been saying. ItÂ’s all there from you guys- the problems I saw. Basically last week weÂ’d forgotten how to close up and finish a game, with poor subs. Saturday weÂ’d forgotten how to start a game.

I pick up on Luke being overweight. Psychologically I think Howard has a problem- he seem to thinks heÂ’s important and his opinion counts instead of playing to the whistle.the guys around him were following his lead. The first goal was not off -side, the second was, and then Howard was lucky whern he handled outside his area.

Nigel Johnson
151 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:31:32
IÂ’ve been involved in football for over 30 years and football is about two things: time and space.

The time our defenders gave to the Chelsea players to shoot or cross was unbelievable. In the Arsenal game, Coleman should have shut down rather than let the player into our box where he could not tackle. I the Chelsea game, again, close down Matic before letting him shoot rather than let him shoot. Everton played really well; we hit the bar and the post... those go in and itÂ’s a different game.

Max Murphy
152 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:03:07
It has been reported that SaturdayÂ’s game was entertaining - of course it was! When you have a bunch of clowns in the side - it will always be entertaining.
Mid-table crap this season, but on a brighter note, we will probably secure the most draws and most own goals.
Jack Cross
154 Posted 03/09/2014 at 00:39:26
Paul Ward. ItÂ’s pretty obvious IÂ’d say, Roberto obviously as faith in Robles as back up, wouldnÂ’t you say? The lad was pummelled for punching instead of catching that day remember? Can you just remind me by how many goals we got beat by in that game? Or anyone else for that matter?

I think itÂ’s the training method that Roberto as introduced thatÂ’s got the team looking limp and ragged..

Paul Burns
156 Posted 04/09/2014 at 19:48:42
I fully expected this piss-poor start to the season. It was definitely the worst pre-season in the history of the club, possibly any club.

Martinez will be out on his arse in no time if he continues to run the club in such an amateurish manner.

Patrick Murphy
157 Posted 04/09/2014 at 20:34:35
Paul you must have a very short memory mate there have been many worse close seasons in EvertonÂ’s history and IÂ’m pretty sure that there have been worse close-seasons for some other clubs, some have even been threatened with closure. Blackpool and Southampton might have outdone us this close-season, but hey letÂ’s all exaggerate and add to the hype. ItÂ’s no wonder that the media choose to cover news and sport in stark black and white terms when their readers and viewers are all too ready to outdo the Journalists and hacks when it comes to sensationalism.
Raymond Fox
158 Posted 04/09/2014 at 20:09:29
Hands up who thought we would finish top 4 this season!
We missed out by 7pts last season, and that was with Utd in crisis and Spurs almost.
We are also competing this season in the Europa, so all I can say is your lacking in rationality if you thought top 4 was a possibility.

Lets consider whatÂ’s happened, we have drawn with Leicester who since have drawn with Arsenal! We drew with Arsenal and lost by 3 goals to probably the 1st or 2nd best team in the league, who on that performance are going to hand out plenty of thrashings.

Following on from a cracking season last year, because weÂ’ve drawn 2 and lost 1, hardly a crisis, Martinez now knows nothing about conditioning and making substitutions

IÂ’m not suggesting heÂ’s infallible we all make mistakes + we donÂ’t get to hear the thinking behind most of the decisions he makes.
He did better than alright last year, but now 12 months later he is now lacking in judgement. I donÂ’t buy it.

ThereÂ’s several reasons why were not a CL side yet, but I donÂ’t think heÂ’s one of them.


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