Everton stadium at heart of city's Commonwealth Games bid

The distance between the nearest fan to the pitch should remain the same in the new stadium.

Problem is, this is a good way to secure the funding and get it cheap for Everton FC.

With the Athletics and swimming centre together surely that area of the waterfront and docks would benefit hugely and get even more development with a successful Commonwealth Games bid.

Definitely an exciting week for Everton!

Once it was announced we were in bed with council money, there was nothing more certain. Is this a spanner in the works? Are we tied into a Commonwealth Games bid because of certain contracts?

Obviously the stadium should still be built on schedule, I just hope the Commonwealth Games bid doesn't change the look or facility that a football stadium needs.

Maybe this was the only way to get the bid we need. Just don't make West Ham's mistake.

This seems the best way forward if they're going to have athletics there.

This makes perfect business sense for the club, to reduce debt and showcase the stadium. It's just another problem to solve.

I know how they did "it" at Etihad, after the Commonwealth Games the pitch was lowered to make room for a third tier, over the athletic tracks. What did they do at West Ham's ground except for removing some 30,000 seats?

The way it's been explained so far is that the council is merely acting as a guarantor for the loans; the club would seek to build the stadium – the money is actually going from the club to the council in the form of the ٤m a year or so payment to them from us.

That's the way I understand it anyway.

Makes sense now why there wasn't to be much happening (stadium wise) before the end of this year because that's when the winning bidder for the Commonwealth Games will be announced.

Stadiums of the future: a revolution for the fan experience in sport

The problem with London Stadium is that it was not designed to become a football-specific stadium after the Olympics. The Etihad was, and is a very good example in this context.

However, I would not want another Etihad as our new home, something more original and innovative is called for. If the architect design it with conversion in mind then it should be a problem and we can still get the fantastic stadium experience we want and need.

Hmm.

Trying to stay positive though until there's no choice.

I bet there'll be a few on here that'll claim we've singed Pickford and Klaassen so quickly, on the same day, to offset this potentially bad news regarding the stadium! :-)

So long as this is all sorted at the design stage and NOT an after thought it shouldn't be a problem. Just think how much that lot across the park will be fuming when it gets built and we move in!

I'm not sure that lowering the pitch to incorporate another tier would be a viable option. The river is only 15 m away!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Hampden_Park_%28panorama%29%2C_Commonwealth_Games%2C_Glasgow_2014.jpg/962px-Hampden_Park_%28panorama%29%2C_Commonwealth_Games%2C_Glasgow_2014.jpg

Then removed it all:

http://www.hampdenpark.co.uk/assets/uploads/images/crossfades/home/Crossfade_HP1.jpg

Admittedly this old stadium looks to have slightly shallow banking compared with Goodison Park and more (curved) distance remains between touchline and first row of seats for football, but it can be done. Hampden was originally a multipurpose stadium which might influence its shape.

Shallower banking may well be now required for new stadiums. NB the technology may well help our new stadium accommodate multiple uses.

Not a problem, our club is in great hands. All please chill out, and in some cases, seriously cheer up. The future is so bright I need sunglasses. This is the best revamp of our club, on and off the pitch, since Sir John gave us a leg up. Enjoy.

Is it realistic to suggest they could produce plans for us on a larger scale offering the same versatility?

We already know that running tracks can be hidden under a lower tier of seating, you wouldn't even know it was there on matchdays.

We have one of the most accomplished designers in the World working on this. He has been briefed and is well aware of the spec to include as cosy an atmosphere as possible.

We have to adopt a sustainable model to future-proof this from an Everton viewpoint. The Moshiri money may not always be there a la Sir John Moores and the Sky billions may dry up also. Catering for large concerts and sporting events will the stadium help pay it's way.

My only concern is the capacity. It's hard enough to get seats for games at the moment for those of us not living near Liverpool and make just a few pilgrimages a year. We can no longer get a seat in the Park End and have to make do with restricted view in Bullens Road or Gwladys Street and not always 3 seats together. The new venue will easily attract another 10,000, so I would like to see a capability for expansion to 60,000.

What happens if the city does not win its bid for the games? How will that affect the stadium plans.

Ray Barnes @ 25, Everton's proposed new stadium being tied up with the city's Commonwealth Games bid is far, far from your claimed "It's really very simple."

Why? Because the city is bidding for the Games. It is not the confirmed location for the future games in 2022.

How can the architect designing the stadium or the club itself properly move forward on such a 'maybe?'

Do we start building a stadium to briefly incorporate an athletics track for just 2 weeks in the summer of 2022, still 5 years away (assuming the city of Liverpool does win the bidding), or do we build a dedicated football stadium best suited to Everton's current and future requirements?

To try to plan and budget for the former of those two scenarios (a very hypothetical one as things currently stand) is, as I say, far, far from being "very simple."

I like what I am hearing from Dan Meis. He has obviously built up quite a reputation and solid body of work in the relatively specialist field of stadium design and his sound-bites are music to the ears of the supporters. His recent commentary on the merits of a sliding roof tell me he has evaluated the design priorities and understood completely the importance and driving passion of the supporters.

Recommending to invest capital on strikers instead of a potential 'white elephant' (which would have probably merited additional design fee revenue) tells me we are in safe hands. COYB

That means the running track would necessarily be above the football pitch in your scenario, and that makes it a lot more complicated than having a hole you can simply fill in later.

The bid announcement is due before the end of 2017. I think when OUR stadium was announced it was mentioned that there wouldn't likely be any moves before early 2018.

Wonder if this is to tie in with whether Liverpool get the Commonwealth Games or not.

Makes sense.

Replying to @Deanoheron

It is possible to accommodate a temporary track for CWG, but we will NOT compromise proximity, intimacy or atmosphere for football.

The very fact one of you mentions the need to have a Plan A and Plan B to accommodate an either/or/and build, depending on whether the city wins the Games bid, whilst the other alludes to a possible delay in revealing Everton's stadium build dependent on that bid just re-affirms what I'm saying.

It adds a further workload to Dan Meis's remit, delays the start and finish date of the project, and potentially prejudices Everton to having a 'straight out of the box, fit for 21st century purpose football stadium for the next 50 years (or more)', just to accommodate a 2 week athletic meet five years down the line in 2022.

Far, far from simple as Ray Barnes claimed.

The implication remains there willbe construction delays and an extra cost to include a running track. The further question is, does the track 'disappear' once the games (if held!) are completed, as with the Etihad and Hampden models, or will they be a permanent feature of the build and retained?

Again, either scenario involves extra cost and additional management.

The mayor's key point is that it would be a temporary track, to be installed after the end of one season and then removed before the start of the next. Nothing permanent. Zero impact on football.

Can a running track of 400 m with however many lanes be installed on the area between the first row of fans and the playing area?

How big an area does that need?

So taking Joe Anderson at his word, Dan Meis is charged with designing (in Joe's own words):

"The Club's new stadium will be purpose-built as a football stadium for generations of Everton fans to enjoy, keeping the intimate atmosphere and close-to-the-pitch feel that our games are famous for."

There will be no fancy 'permanent' 'now you see it, now you don't' 'hidden' athletics track. Joe says:

"I share that commitment and we won't make the mistakes others have made. Our plan is to install a temporary track after the final home game of the 2021-22 season, which will then be removed before the 2022-23 season starts in the autumn.

"Just like it would be if the Club was hosting a concert or another sporting event, the infrastructure will be temporary with all the costs of installation and removal met by the Commonwealth Games."

From those words, we can (reasonably) conclude that:

● Construction is going to start soon to be ready for (at minimum...) Everton to be playing there for the 2021-22 season.

● The cost of installing and removing the running track and returning the stadium to a 'strictly football' arena will not fall to Everton.

I can live with that.

I'd leave those sort of worries to the designers, eh?

If Kenwright was in charge of the design, he would say we'll just ask the fans to put their seats in the store room after the game. Save a few quid.

I'm happy!

Just joking, the technology we have today is astounding, so installing a temporary running track would be easy peasy for the experts. Don't forget they used to be able to flood the floor of the Colosseum in Rome for mock ship battle, seat between 55 and 80,000, and had a retractable roof, (albeit a piece of tarp and a bloke with a rope), and that was built nearly 2,000 years ago. I read somewhere the Reddicus Shiteicus Still got dodgious peneltilicuses...

Another first for Everton? I can't think of another club having two stadiums hosting a world event!

'Ahem'... Goodison Park, and the new waterfront stadium

My son has been doing the games with me for years. He told me on the way out that its the worst stadium he's watched a game in.

We were in Row 2, this is their front row. It felt like being at a cricket match. The action is all the way over there in the middle. No relation to football whatsoever.

Believe me, Dan Meis should visit West Ham.

It's a question of minimising the impact of accommodating it into the design.

I don't want my seat far from the pitch. I hope the bid fails.

Those games could help a lot of less fortunate people greatly improve their lives!

I suggest you read Joe Anderson's full statement on the official site before erroneously making the observations you do.

Link

"It is possible to accommodate a temporary track for CWG, but we will NOT compromise proximity, intimacy or atmosphere for football."

"No worries, it can be done without affecting the intimacy or proximity. Please trust, we will protect."

They'll obviously do their best, but the plans will surely be adapted slightly? Surely they can't build it exactly how they would if there wasn't a track and just throw one in there for three weeks.

Oh well, wait and see. At least Dan seems to know the score.

If, as I suspect, the project is not fundable without the Commonwealth Games, can we please go back asap to, eg, a second tier on the Park End and a new Bullens Road option?

Neither of which are anything like as intimate as Goodison Park.

Dan Meis Tweets

Having read them, I think the design and funding of our new stadium is in good hands. The big boys are in charge now.

Looks like "win-win" for Everton and the city to me.

"No worries, it can be done without affecting the intimacy or proximity."

He also mentioned:

"...that a big part of the Goodison-like environment would come from the fans themselves, and their level of engagement would determine the atmosphere."

That's not the same thing.

The only real question we should be asking is what to make the statue of Moshiri out of, Bronze or Gold!

He's put in place an incredible financial package that ensures we, Everton, the club itself, pays for the build completely over 40 years (yes, it's a mortgage) and then we own the Stadium out right, 100%, no ifs or buts, it's essentially ours from day 1, just like your own home.

He's engaged a world-renowned stadium architect and given him the clearest brief imaginable, build a modern Goodison Mark 2, replicate the proximity to the pitch, replicate the atmosphere and feel.

However, Everton need the council to come on board to provide all the necessary infrastructure, irrespective of a Commonwealth Games bid or not. The council's ability to fund this is restricted due to the current economic climate but they have already committed to upgrading the local transport infrastructure to support the new ground and make it viable.

A successful Commonwealth Games bid massively increases the pot of money available to the council for developing the infrastructure around the ground and the local area, it will propel the whole development forward at least 10 years, provide a massive cash and jobs injection into Liverpool and propel Everton and the City forward. If the Commonwealth Games bid fails, we just lose out on the additional infrastructure upgrades and 10 year fast-track of the area, the stadium still goes ahead as funded by Moshiri's ingenious plan.

The we get to Dan Meis, he has taken everything onboard and is completely engaged with the fans, seems to have taken Everton, Evertonians and Goodison to his heart and is sticking to the brief, intimate, intimidating, atmospheric and iconic.

A temporary athletics track, above existing seats in the lower stands is achievable without impacting the ground design at all, all it does is reduce the capacity for the games from the final stadium capacity, no big deal. Say 55,000 for Everton games and only 40,000 for the Commonwealth Games, 15,000 being under the track temporarily.

Either way, I'm confident the stadium of our dreams is coming, fully funded by Everton, but with a successful Commonwealth Games bid there is the extra bonus for the City and Everton ourselves, through better local infrastructure and facilities plus the increased exposure of Everton world wide.

It's right that we keep on topic and keep everyone accountable for what they are promising and have promised since Moshiri came on board, but so far they have been 100% true to their word, including Joe Anderson.

This is the most exciting time to be a Blue ever – let's enjoy it, back them to the hilt, hold them to account by all means and keep them honest, but lets enjoy the ride and support them. Moshiri is that man! COYB

Here is the proposed Dan Meis blueprint for the new stadium:

Waterfront football stadium and running track.

I agree with most of what you say, and things are moving in a positive direction for sure. There are huge issues and tiny ones and everything in-between.

Many are interested in the stadium design itself above wider matters of finance, partnerships, infrastructure, and on that particular point, you said:

"A temporary athletics track, above existing seats in the lower stands, is achievable without impacting the ground design at all, all it does is reduce the capacity for the games from the final stadium capacity, no big deal."

I haven't seen one stadium design from anywhere in the world that can or has incorporate(d) a 400 m international running track, that has terracing proximity and geometry remotely like at Goodison. It isn't feasible, if even possible.

A running track envisioned at Goodison Park as is would be completely out of sight under all four stands. This also puts the track straights some way below the upper Main Stand and moreso, Upper Bullens; so no second tier stands at that distance from the pitch.

The "High wall" effect is gone. People in higher seating positions will be further away from the pitch than before. A running track, whether permanent or temporary, essentially dictates a bowl design of stadium, too.

Short of a never-seen-before totally motorized structure running into several billions, of a complexity that would shame Thunderbirds, it isn't going to look like Goodison.

Meis is definitely the Real Deal and will produce the very best possible within the brief that he's given. If that finally does include a running track, expect a different looking "Goodison 2".

I'd put up with the obstructions at Goodison – at least you can see the players without binoculars. Just hope we don't get the Commonwealth Games. Sorry for being negative – why can't we have a ground that we have always wished for? Steep sides and close to the pitch.

The London Stadium was constructed to serve as the home stadium for the 2012 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, hosting the track and field events and opening and closing ceremonies. So, the requirements here were that the stadium, first and foremost would be designed as a stadium for hosting track and field events.

It was subsequently renovated as a multi-purpose stadium, with its primary tenants being West Ham United Football Club and British Athletics. So, West Ham's fault for not getting in early in the design stage to invest and consult in the design.

Now to our new stadium, this has certain specific requirements, first and foremost to be a football stadium, and Dan will understand the brief for the intimacy and atmosphere required by the fans. It's then his team's job to design a stadium that meets these requirements.

Confidence should be high within the fan base that he will get this right, and this is certainly supported by his tweets in Laurie's link, thanks for those Laurie. So let's chill a bit and let the people that are being paid to get this right do their stuff.

Will, Goodison is not that steep, especially when you look at some of the grounds built in Germany to host the 2006 World Cup. I'm imagining really steep seating, like the ground in Cologne, and just hope these engineers are good at their job!

Joe Anderson has said that what they have in mind will add more atmosphere to the athletics, so it sounds to me like they are going to raise the track off the ground and bring it towards the crowds up above. Or is that just my imagination running away with me? (Sing it!)

I have no fears here. I'm not desperate, Dan. I trust in you.

Then again, neither I nor I suspect anyone else on here has ever designed/built a sports stadium! We have no choice other than to leave Dan Meis to do the best he can with the brief he has been given.

Colin Malone (#63) – "there and back for the 100 metres." Priceless.

You're right to be cautious, Will, but after reading those tweets I try and read in-between the lines. Dan talks about very steep terracing to accommodate the seats and it takes me back to the wonderful time I had with my mates and Kids in the stadium of Cologne during the 2006 World Cup.

Joe Anderson is talking about increased atmosphere for the athletics so I can only imagine a raised track, to bring it towards the crowd? My only concern is people getting wet in the corners (but also think the architect might be a sarcastic yank?) Although this would help fit in a raised track, and doesn't quite fit with the design in my head!!

Reading the tweets, the one about an historic football club fills me with the most confidence and, whilst I don't think we need a roof, I do think we need something to keep the noise in, because when I think back to Rotterdam, it was just a night full of noise but, when I watched it again on the telly, it didn't really sound like that at all?

There seems to be an in-built desire for some on TW to be negative, so these last few days have been a bit abnormal, as all of the positive news seems difficult to comprehend.

As Brent sort of said, "Is there a problem?" I think even if there isn't a problem, some on TW will try and find one.

Here again is the link to that letter:

Link

Before this was made public I also expressed my concerns (in this very thread) at the need of building a new football stadium with the idea in mind of having to incorporate a running track for a 'possibke' 2 weeks athletics event 5 years down the road.

The designer Dan Meis's recent tweets on the subject and Joe Anderson's letter greatly allayed my concerns.

Joe was very explicit in his letter.

"The Club's new stadium will be purpose-built as a football stadium for generations of Everton fans to enjoy, keeping the intimate atmosphere and close-to-the-pitch feel that our games are famous for."

There will be no fancy 'permanent' 'now you see it, now you don't' 'hidden' athletics track. Joe says:

"I share that commitment and we won't make the mistakes others have made. Our plan is to install a temporary track after the final home game of the 2021-22 season, which will then be removed before the 2022-23 season starts in the autumn.

"Just like it would be if the Club was hosting a concert or another sporting event, the infrastructure will be temporary with all the costs of installation and removal met by the Commonwealth Games."

From those words, we can (reasonably) conclude that:

● Construction is going to start soon to be ready for (at minimum...) Everton to be playing there for the 2021-22 season.

● The build will not incorporate a running track, nor distance seating and supporters from the action.

● Should the city of Liverpool win the bid, the stadium will be the jewel in the crown of the Commonwealth Games and a temporary athletics arena will be installed in the summer of 2022, during football's closed season.

● The cost of installing and removing the running track and returning the stadium to a 'strictly football' arena will not fall to Everton.

People continuing to express their concerns about a West Ham-like scenario really need to read up on what was made public yesterday before shooting from the hip.

I am sure Dan Meis has figured out how to do it but I will be fascinated to see how he fits a 175-metre long running track into the football stadium footprint.

Maybe we are going to get our stadium in two stages? River end and two sides first then Vauxhall Road stand built during the close season. It has been done before.

All rather intriguing.

I can see a "new dawn" for Everton FC but I guess it will take a lot longer to convince some.

Spot on, and as you say, a great showcase for the stadium. It puts the club out there to the watching world, superb PR in my opinion.

These ideas about disappearing seating and so on are all very well but they will add millions to the cost of the stadium and involve onerous maintenance issues. It reminds me of the removable field that was going to roll out into the car park at Kings Dock to get some sun. Please!

Hopefully the Games will go to Birmingham. We need a football stadium that other teams will fear to go. Build it!!

Rather than have a stadium in the middle of a derelict and run-down area, we will have an iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey, surrounded by shops, cafés etc. It has to be good for the club and the city.

The dimensions of the actual eight lane running track aren't the end of the story. There are long-jump and triple-jump pits to add to the width. There is the steeplechase fence. Pole vault area. So, beyond the required running track, there is a heck of a lot more.

A rectangular football ground with steep stands bang up alongside the pitch creating a wall of noise just doesn't seem possible to me.

The reassurances of Mayor Joe and Dan Meis are helping me somewhat. When I get to see the cgi of the new ground, then I know that my reaction will be like a last-minute derby winner, I'm just praying the winner is Everton.

After all, I'm fairly sure there is a local team who are used to using our old grounds, name escapes me at the moment, and it could rejuvenate another area of the City at the same time.

The rest of the athletics stadium would be a temporary structure, to be removed after the event. A permanent second side to the stadium could subsequently be built. We could even have a temporary second side to the ground in the short term, prior to the Commonwealth Games.

Would anyone want our city to host a shambolic / laughable Commonwealth Games? If not, then the athletics facilities would have to be first class to support the efforts of world-leading athletes. I'm not an expert on athletics tracks but I'd be a little surprised if one could easily be constructed on a simple raised platform.

Good for the city Cafes, Shops, transport links. yeah great. But what about the fans that want to watch Everton with a decent view. After all that's what we Everton fans were suppose to be getting. A Footie Stadium.

A few months ago we were laughing at the loft conversion at the shite. Saying how far away their stand was from the pitch. However, we'll have four sides far away from the pitch.

Come on... we need a football stadium – not an athletics stadium. I just knew, after a good week being a Blue, a spanner would be thrown into the works.

And any extra cost should be recompensed by the council / Commonwealth Games funding.

Depends on the capacity of the footy ground and the required capacity of the athletics stadium but the track and field can be raised above the field level.

So where will the rugby and hockey be played? Could be a good use for Goodison Park before being put out to pasture?

Sacrifices will have to be made in the short term. West Ham United and Manchester City did it this way. Great opportunity if the club are going to go forward in a fantastic location.

"There and back for 100 metres" made me laugh out loud!!!

No, I think people are specifically concerned about, and are addressing, how the stadium itself will look finally. Since a stadium that can or temporarily does contain a 400-m running track will not look like Goodison Park. "Scope" provided by the Commonwealth Games is nothing to do with that.

Numerous posters on here have posted details of Dan's tweets to attempt to pacify to no avail, but to me they say that Evertonians need not worry as he has everything under control.

Raising the floor for the Commonwealth Games

Joe Anderson is talking about doing something similar between the end of one football season and the start of the next. I don't doubt that these things can be done in theory, but if someone gets their sums wrong, our club and the city could end up associated with an almighty cock-up.

I do not want a disused athletics track.

I do not want a bowl type stadium with shallow terraces.

I would really love a tip top modern replica of Goodison Park. No obstructed views.

After all we intend to live and worship at our new home for at least another 125 years. Being shoehorned into some hybrid compromise for the sake of a one off event is, to my thinking, putting Everton fans and players interests far behind those of tourists who will not be season ticket holders even five years later.

I just want the best and only the best.

I'm sure they'll be able to reproduce a similar atmosphere at the new stadium. Using it for the centrepiece for the Commonwealth Games bid can only enhance the reputation of the city and the club. Bring it on!!

Also some talk about a 10,000-seat arena being built at Goodison; I wonder if this will be permanent and or a velodrome?