Share this article



Reader Comments (116)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Alan J Thompson
1 Posted 02/04/2019 at 06:18:22
If Bill had leaned over and given you a kiss and a cuddle you'd probably gone away thinking you were Sly Stallone and probably never posted.
Tony Abrahams
2 Posted 02/04/2019 at 08:13:43
I’m punch drunk as well Alan!
Graham Hodgson
3 Posted 02/04/2019 at 08:28:14
Lee, I thought it was a great read with your personal insight into the current board and the general feel for where the club is at. Like you, I can only get to one or two matches every year or so, having emigrated to New Zealand nearly 40 years ago. Therefore my opinion can only ever be based on what I see on TV, talking to family when I call, what I read in papers and through this forum. If the physical separation from the Club makes me less of a supporter in the eyes of some people then so be it. I couldn’t be arsed trying to argue that point.

However, in my opinion, I believe that without Bill Kenwright as chairman over the past 15 years our Club will have become an Aston Villa, a Leeds, a Notts Forest, a Newcastle, a Sunderland. I could go on.

As Lee has suggested, Bill Kenwright’s made mistakes, however I also believe he has genuinely tried to get the best deal for the Club that did not result in us becoming one of the teams mentioned. Unfortunately the search for the “golden ticket” has taken many years and may at last be coming to fruition. Not this year, but hopefully over then next three to four.

Anyhow, I’ll be there for the Burnley match in a few weeks time. Beggars can’t be choosers!

Richard Jones
4 Posted 02/04/2019 at 08:33:56
Lee what a great day for you and the family. As for Bill Kenwright..... Have you got a couple of days to spare Lee ?
Dave Abrahams
5 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:33:19
Graham (3) read your post over half an hour ago, just finished wiping the sick up.

Lee, Kenwright most probably looked apprehensive in case you asked him something about football.

Bob Parrington
6 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:58:25
Lee- Great photo. Something to be remembered. Thanks for sharing! 😀
Derek Thomas
7 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:05:26
Bill appeared apprehensive eh, two things come to mind.

First; he has good reason to and he knows it and has memories of being fronted in the car park. But there is an element of 'nobody forgets when you get it wrong and nobody remembers when you get it right'...just how much he's got right is highly debatable though.

Second; maybe he really has been marginalized and is now truly a figurehead of the 'you just sit there and say nowt' type.

Anyway Lee,glad you had a good day out.

Stan Schofield
8 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:21:15
Lee, that's a nice photo and I'm glad you had such a great day with your family.

I agree with your sentiment that we're Everton and if we get back to the top we would like to do it based on great football and sportsmanship, just like Everton did when we were truly great.

Having said all that, I'd be careful about making any conclusions about praise or criticism of individual Board members based on a personal meeting like that.

Graham Hodgson
9 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:45:18
Dave Abrahams (5); wow don’t hold back. You obviously didn’t like my “opinion”, and I believe you didn’t like Lee’s either. Fair enough, that’s why we have the freedom to express ourselves like we do. I’ll remember next time though that some people become violently ill when Bill Kenwright’s name is mentioned!

Anyhow, while I have never been happy with everything he has done, I’ll say it again, for all his faults I would rather have had Bill Kenwright at the Club in the past 15 years than any of the turkeys that have been in charge of some of the clubs I mentioned.

Hope you get well soon, Dave!

Danny Broderick
10 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:48:04
I’m sure none of us wish Bill Kenwright any harm. But he blotted his copybook by refusing to sell us for so long. He was happy to just exist in the Premier League. All the while, our rivals were getting bigger and stronger. He’s put us back 20 years realistically.

When he took over, we would have all settled for being a steady club free from relegation worries after the 90s. The trouble is, this was no longer the limit of our ambitions once Moyes had established us as a top 6 club again. Bill’s refusal to sell us was right at the time when we needed investment. That money went to Spurs, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. We are now playing catch up, yet we seem further away from the top 4 than ever.

Kenwright has done a lot of good at Everton. I’m sure he’s a likeable guy and a true blue. He appointed Moyes, and has overseen lots of good like Everton in the Community etc. I just wish he’d sold us back in the day. Even when he did sell up, somehow he has managed to keep his seat at the table!

Dave Abrahams
11 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:53:47
Graham, I hope you enjoy your trip home and a victory against Burnley, you’re still a Blue no matter where you are, but definitely have very different opinions to mine,but as you say you are entitled to them.

Hope you have a good time back home in Liverpool.

Bill Watson
12 Posted 02/04/2019 at 11:56:40
Great read Lee and great photo.

Despite what some would have us believe others weren't exactly queuing up to buy when Johnson put Everton up for sale. Kenwright did and, yes, he's made a pile in the process but does anyone really expect him to sell for what he paid?

I'm not a great Kenwright fan but the club was in crisis when he stepped in and we're still in the top league so he must have done the odd thing right.

None of us know the inside story of what's gone on over the years, so none of us have the information to make objective judgements.

OK he's a showbiz luvvy but I draw the line at some of the vitriolic personal abuse he's subjected to.

Liam Reilly
13 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:02:54
Nice story and photo Lee. Mr Brands certainly looks the real deal.

As regards BK; he truly polarises opinion. My view is he's neither the Devil nor the messiah; he's just a businessman who happened to be in a position to take ownership of the club he loves; but like all businesses has had successes and failure along the way.

Jim Potter
14 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:15:05
Nice article Lee.

It looks from your photo as if Bill is hiding behind Denise.

Great to see she reacted like a proper fan!

Moshiri was obviously off counting his money somewhere.

Ray Roche
15 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:20:19
What Bill says @12.

I remember Kenwright standing outside the main entrance on match days happy to talk to fans about Everton and football aspects. I spoke to him several times. What other chairman would do that?
Of course, subsequent events have rendered that sort of action impossible because people have seen his mistakes and the resentment they feel would only prevent logical debate.
But some of the personal abuse is regrettable and unnecessary.

Kieran Kinsella
16 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:38:29
I think it is also possible Bill wanted to shy away as he has had ill health and doesn’t look great. Maybe he isn’t up to par and doesn’t want a lot of exposure with his health?
Dave Abrahams
17 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:50:17
Ray (15), Peter Johnson walked around the ground, inside, spoke to him three or four times in The Lower
Bullens, this was when he was Chairman.

Saw Kenwright a few times outside the main entrance on Goodison Road talking to fans, always when the team was doing okay, never in bad times.

Sam Hoare
18 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:58:10
I have no doubt that Bill Kenwright loves the club very dearly. I've also no doubt that he also loves making large amounts of money. Where he has ocassionally got into trouble is where he has maybe put the love of the second before the first. But the more time goes by the less I begrudge him that. He wanted to have his cake and eat it and doesn't everyone? We may not have flourished quite as some of our rivals have but we have stayed in the league when many others have not. I believe he works very hard for the club and he is a genuine supporter like the rest of us, for that alone he deserves some slack. Evertonians support our own right, despite their flaws.
Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:04:12
Dave, my sons have been going the match since they were three, and now my oldest one is twenty three. The team might have done okay “sometimes” but never nothing more than that though.

One cup final since 1995, that’s what Everton have become, and still Mr Kenwright has his good points?

He saved us from oblivion, is the biggest load of shite I’ve ever heard muttered, and as much as I hate Liverpool, after reading Lee’s last sentence, I do understand why the bastards laugh at us at times.

Thomas Lennon
20 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:07:27
The number of teams who have been there from the start and never been relegated from the Premier League is very short. Anyone old enough to remember the late 1990's/early 2000's will remember how close we got to not being one of them. Proper clubs like Newcastle, Man City, Villa, Leeds, West Ham and many more have all gone down, mostly down to poor management.

Given the paucity of our funding throughout that time and since, without good management how did we achieve that?
Who put us in that position? I would suggest the lack of forward thinking business planning since the 1980's

Lee Mandaracas
21 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:40:12
...and in direct response @Tony (19) I can see why they call us 'Bitters'!

Incidentally, my last sentence was simply: COYB!

Paul Bernard
22 Posted 02/04/2019 at 16:27:51
After reading the original post and seeing the picture, the only thing I have taken from it is that I may have a crush on Denise ! *Have to have a look at google images to confirm*
Kieran Kinsella
23 Posted 02/04/2019 at 16:37:31
In this day of overly sensitive political correctness I am just waiting for someone to jump to Lee's defence as a sexual harassment victim "She leaned in, gave me a hug, a kiss on the cheek"
Mike Gaynes
24 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:44:42
Lee, thanks for sharing your story and the family photo. I'm happy for you at having made a memory you can cherish for many years to come.
Kevin O'Regan
25 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:55:08
My mam used to say - "if you have nothing good to say then say nothing" - but of course all that changed when every tom dick and harry can say what they want online, hidden in their own 4 walls - and it seems that no matter how wrong they may be that their emotion and opinion is the only one which matters. Hence let's attack those above us, those on the board, pitch or leaders.. people who have made it... I have a right to write whatever I want to because I didn't make it that big and they are priveledged and earn too much and should expect abuse as leaders, public figures or role models.
Well folks, get real - most of those in such positions got there by working hard - that's what successful people do. And none of those writing or shouting such vile would ever become anything like a leader because of that negativity.
Sorry for the sermon - but I'm sick of that crap, online and in stadiums. Just because you are entitled to free speech doesn't mean you can be a dickhead. As you say Lee we are better than that - complain, point things out but do it the right way.
Lovely story Lee - thanks for sharing.
Ray Roche
26 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:20:58
Dave@17,

If he only came out in the good times I'd never have seen him.;-)

But fair play to him, and I am NOT one of Kenwright's biggest fans, he did try to mix with the fans in those days. But then he got found out, I suppose.
Ringfenced. Nuff said.

Jeff Armstrong
27 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:23:22
Is that the back of Snod’s head above DBB?
Lee Mandaracas
28 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:52:15
No Jeff, don't think so. Only other one I recognised was Jon Woods on the row ahead of this quartet. I'd have recognised Snods straight away but guess he was probably the other side of the ground in the press box doing the live commentary on the EFC site
Amit Vithlani
29 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:11:11
Wonderful family picture Lee, and glad to hear you had a chance to meet the Everton hierarchy.

As for Kenwright, a polite reminder that this is the man who oversaw our failure to land a stadium at King's dock, was duped by the Fortress Sports Fund, had the club in deep indebtedness to the banks, had strong connections to a retail tycoon involved in shameful scandals, and raised funding for the club from very suspect BVI based financing arrangements.

Ray Roche
30 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:21:59
Yes Amit, but, yer know, he’s blue through and through.
Innit.
Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:24:30
We don’t have to show the bile of the other crowd Lee? And you say that no wonder they call us bitters!

I’m glad you enjoyed your day Lee, come and have a look at the site, that Kenwright was prepared to move Everton to, when you are next up for a game. In fact give me a shout and I will take you there, and let you see for yourself.

Kenwright wasted time, money and effort, and then said he was glad that KEIOC, beat the billionaire lawyers of Tesco, because he really didn’t want to go to Kirkby, which is unbelievable really.

Incidentally Lee, I know hundreds of Liverpudlians, and they all know I hate Liverpool. They don’t call me bitter though, because they are all no different from me mate.

I think someone who is bitter hates everyone (Liverpudlians) whereas I only hate Liverpool FC. They wouldn’t have put up with Kenwright imo though, but they definitely laugh at us, for putting up with him instead.


Dave Abrahams
32 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:59:09
Kevin (25) “ If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing”_________. So it’s okay to praise some one but don’t mention all the cock ups, lies and deceit that they have paraded over many years, see Amit @ (29), or in your eyes maybe he is just making it up.
Graham Hodgson
33 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:32:27
Dave (11), cheers mate.
Stan Schofield
34 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:53:07
I haven't really taken much interest in the financial wheeler dealings at Everton over the years. But what I do know is the simple fact that we were a great club not so long ago, truly at the top. Not like Leeds or Villa or Forest, but at the top, to the extent that I've seen us win 8 trophies.

I was quite pleased when Leicester won the league, but when it happened I had a discussion with a Leicester supporter who unfortunately was ungracious in victory. Leicester beat us 3-1 in the next game after they clinched the title, and we were a shambles in the final days of Martinez. But instead of being gracious about it, this particular supporter inferred I'd wasted my time supporting Everton, because we'd won nothing as far as he could recall and were in disarray.

Well, I had no alternative but to tell him about the 8 trophies we'd won, and that the Leicester title was one of the one-in-20 year events that occur in the vein of Blackburn and Forest, and they'd soon be back to square one of mediocrity even in the unlikely event of retaining all their best players. And of course they now are, they are midtable mediocre like us. But the difference is they'll be dining out on that title win for years whilst being happy just to be in the Premier League, while we'll never be happy until we're back at the top, the position I was brought up with and which is a natural expectation, certainly for me.

The fact that this Leicester supporter could feel so ungracious and critical, like the fact that some reds are similar, stems from mismanagement of Everton right at the top of the club. If I had to choose an example of gross mismanagement from the top, taking a great enterprise from the top to relative mediocrity, I would choose EFC. I don't need to focus on particular individuals, I just need to look at the results of the management at the top, and that management has been utterly unacceptable.

So, for me, if I met with the Everton Board, I'd be courteous and gracious, and hopeful for the future, but I would not draw any positive conclusions about them regardless of how courteous or gracious they were to me as a supporter.

Kevin O'Regan
35 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:16:59
Dave - I'm definitely not saying not the criticise the crap decisions and bad management and whatever else needs to be mentioned - just make sure it's done with facts and not directed at the person themselves - if you mess up at work and get criticised by a colleague or boss you will want them to get their facts right and to criticise what you did rather than you as a person. Not many out there who go and make bad decisions and mess up for the sake of it.
Paul Birmingham
36 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:18:06
Good story Lee, and thanks for sharing and made up you and your family had a great day.

An I interesting photo, with Snods, gassing away there with his back turned. He must have been asking some one to get them in for him at tha bar. Great Lad, Snods, and one of the lads.

Let’s hope as we all do for better days to come, as for the main, it’s been in the main 30 odd years of pergatory.

We live in hope eternal.

Dave Evans
37 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:20:14
Nice story and photo, Lee.

Kevin @25,

Not so sure about the Kenwright arguments either way but there is truth in your general point. It was not so long ago on here that people were slagging off Barrett Baxendale after she made speech in Europe promoting the proposed new ground. As far as I could make out, the criticism was something along the lines that she had at some point in life got herself an education.

Like you, I have often wondered about the motivation of this sort of 'all the hierarchy' critic. That a successful day in their lives might be defined by managing to haul themselves off the fabrics and go for a piss.

Eddie Dunn
38 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:33:17
Nice to see it all Lee- thanks for sharing your little insight. I suspect that Bill may have been wary with you coming from the other side of the barrier. As Pickford has found out (rightly or wrongly) Joe Public can be a can of worms about to be opened. My only experience of Bill K is seeing him outside West Ham(when we won 2-3 with Lukaku and Baines the scorers) before the game as me and a mate were collecting tickets via a former player. Bill and Keith Woods were waiting to meet someone. I did consider talking to them, but didn't want to possibly be dissappointed by giving them any unwanted attention.

I did keep an eye on them though, and they hardly spoke to each other. I did get a lift to the match once off two of Woods daughters. Interesting

Dave Abrahams
39 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:36:34
Kevin (35), while they might not be making bad decisions for the sake of it, if they continually make bad decisions that effect the club and the fans then they deserve all the criticism they get, particularly if they come out of it financially much better off themselves and still seem to have a say in the running of the club, hopefully Kenwright’s time at the club is coming to an end.
Jamie Crowley
40 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:49:13
Lee -

Whether or not the powers-that-be are good or bad for the Club is a debatable topic.

But It's awfully nice to see how polite and pleasant they were to you and your family, Lee.

That's a great pic by the way. Really good photo of your family and the Everton Brass. Cool.

Happy for you that you could have that moment with your family.

Kunal Desai
41 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:25:15
Nice of you to share Lee. No doubt the evening made all the more sweeter with the victory.
As for Kenwright wasn't his decision to ban all supporters club association meetings and other independent supporters clubs meetings. He was the one who didn't want to engage with supporters if I remember correctly. I simply don't like the man on the basis of what those have mentioned above so won't cut him any slack.
Phil Wood
42 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:52:35
Great day out Lee on all fronts.
Well done to the Board for getting in the spirit.
Nice to have good vibes once in a while.
Have many more folks!
Lee Mandaracas
43 Posted 03/04/2019 at 09:51:03
Thanks for all the positives on this thread - more than I anticipated, which is nice. Obviously there are some negatives and mostly I have no disagreement with their observations. Except to say this: largely the negatives directed at Kenwright ignore the existence of anything good he may have done and my post never alleged there hadn't been bad decisions. On the contrary.

Those highlighting such seem to be incapable of seeing anything but the specific bad decisions (however serious some of those may have been) and, for that one-sidedness, I think they do themselves and the rest of us a disservice.

Most importantly, it demonstrates however deeply I love this club why (even if I were Brewstered beyond belief) I would not hold the rudder of this beautiful ship of ours. Pity that.

Frank Wade
44 Posted 03/04/2019 at 13:03:44
Great post Lee and I think you have summed the situation up perfectly in #43. I love the expression 'Brewstered beyond belief'. I look at clubs of similar stature like Villa, Leeds, Wednesday, Forest etc and wonder 'what if ? '. Great to be able to take in a game where we played 'School of Science' football.
Christine Foster
45 Posted 03/04/2019 at 13:42:24
Lee, lovely moments for you and I am sure that the board had a smile too. They say time heals and I do understand perspectives of Bill Kenwright highlighted by both sides, but for me I shall always believe the outcome of the Kirkby fracas and the blatant lies told to supporters. Built on the expectations of Bill's Kings Dock comments, one has to believe he had the best interests of Bill Kenwright, Philip Green et al, in the decisions made for his time as main shareholder.

It was the abject failure of the commercial sector of the club, the treatment of shareholders and lack of sufficient financial investment that left the club in a state of sinking for over a decade. Under Bills guidance.

People forget as time goes by, because they want to look forward with hope and expectation, but a revisionist perspective of the running and management of EFC under his tenure will not wash.

I look forward to the future too, I rarely, if ever, make any commentary on the board these days because its a far more businesslike approach with better incumbents. I too want to move on, but please, a little bit of balance we are not a VIlla, a Forest etc, we never were... we were a top club. TOP club.. On an equal footing with Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool. They had the same opportunity as we did. They moved on, we went backwards.. where then does the blame lie? Whom has responsibility?

We ARE a great club, we are not a TOP club, but the foundations are being laid to get there. But I am not sure what if any influence BK has in that or going forward. I wish him well in health and good fortune. But I do not credit him for all things good about the club.

Frank Wade
46 Posted 03/04/2019 at 15:59:25
Christine, we were a top club 62 to 71, 84 to 89, that's it in my lifetime. In the early 90's we slumped when the Premier League began, apart from a very brief resurgence under Joe Royle, we lost our opportunity long before Bill Kenwright was chairman. I mentioned those other clubs as they were of similar stature and have fallen away, Villa and Forest were European Cup winners and Leeds were close, so were as Top a club as Everton ever were. We were the league's equivalent of the Manchester clubs in the 60's and dubbed the Mersey millionaires, but soon fell away, when the money men departed. We chanced upon Howard's way, never built on it and in 6/7 years it was all gone South again. Top clubs don't appoint someone like Sam Allardyce as manager or a Kenyan sports betting company as shirt sponsor.
Tony Abrahams
47 Posted 03/04/2019 at 16:28:06
I think maybe Villa, would rank alongside Everton, Frank, but not Forest or Leeds.

Forest won the league and then two European Cups, on the bounce, but have never had the history of Everton, and although Leeds have had great times, I also don’t think their overall history would be comparative to Everton’s?

Arsenal and United, were on a similar number of League and cup wins to Everton, before the EPL started, but look at those two clubs now?

They are both miles ahead, and are no longer really comparable to Everton, who have been the train-set of a pauper, but didn’t he do well...?

Mike Gaynes
48 Posted 03/04/2019 at 16:55:13
Lee #43, time for a quick lesson in English English for us Yanks -- what does "Brewstered beyond belief" mean?

My best guesses:

1. drunk

2. crazy and/or masochistic

3. wealthy

Chris Gould
49 Posted 03/04/2019 at 17:21:08
No. 3
As in Brewster's millions.
Mike Gaynes
50 Posted 03/04/2019 at 17:25:33
I should have guessed. Cheers.
Jay Harris
51 Posted 03/04/2019 at 19:14:19
Lee,
Pleased that you shared that with us and glad it was such a pleasant day all round for the family.

I was based in Chelmsford for years in the late 80s but never missed a home game and probably got more away games in than before.

I will not talk about Kenwright as I don't want to spoil your thread by turning it into yet another debate on the good,the bad and the ugly but suffice it to say I am fully aligned with Christine and Tony Abraham and I have never been bitter in my life.

BTW is the Golden Lion still there?

Lee Mandaracas
52 Posted 03/04/2019 at 19:57:27
No Jay, it's not - unless you're referring to The Lion Inn at Boreham outside of town. I do a lot of weddings there as they have a lovely function room at the back and it's now a hotel with a well-renowned restaurant that's always busy, especially Sundays.
Lee Mandaracas
53 Posted 03/04/2019 at 20:00:26
I'm afraid I need to direct some on here to my comment #43. In particular, I think Christine seems to have missed my point about balance - quoting the 'time heals all wounds' missive instead. That is nothing like anything I have said.

Bill Kenwright got things wrong and there were some decisions I found undemocratic and/or unreasonable, such as stopping shareholder meetings. What some people refuse to accept is what drove him to that unreasonable, unfair decision. I am not excusing it but those who were making his life a misery at the time need to take some responsibility too. #justsayin

Tony Abrahams
54 Posted 03/04/2019 at 20:56:58
I honestly think these Kenwright threads should be stopped because they just goes round in circles. He’s done some good things, (EITC and Bradley Lowrey, come to mind) but with regards the running of Everton FC, I just think he’s been init for himself.

He pulls at some people’s heart-strings, and he makes others feel sick, such is the diversity of life.

Lee Mandaracas
55 Posted 03/04/2019 at 21:55:40
It wasn't a Kenwright thread Tony (although I anticipated it may become that regretfully). It only became a Kenwright thread with the help of yourself among others. Strange to make exactly the observations you want to get threads shut down for
Anton Walsh
56 Posted 03/04/2019 at 21:56:57
I met BK outside the ground first away game against Wolves. In the car park I hijacked him for some pics with my lads. I was very surprised how relaxed and approachable he was. We spoke about his new signings and the crap we'd shipped out. This was the day after the window shut and he was telling me some stuff about the club I thought I'd never hear off the chairman. Not bad stuff but just what he thought of some failed signings like Klasson. I felt like I had a two way conversation with him and was very impressed.
Dave Abrahams
57 Posted 03/04/2019 at 22:04:39
Lee (55), if it wasn’t a Kenwright thread why did you use four paragraphs talking about the way he has been treated by Everton fans, you invite comments about the man, even said you’d get dog’s abuse for doing so.
Kieran Kinsella
58 Posted 03/04/2019 at 22:07:53
Anton

To me that is unprofessional of Bill to talk that way and it isn’t the first time. I know he bashed a certain person (not that I disagreed) while said person was in a key role still st the club. More publicly he has slated Trevor Birch, Keith Wyness etc so people in glass houses

Jamie Crowley
59 Posted 03/04/2019 at 22:08:31
Christine @45 -

As a fan of one Ms. Christine Foster, when you say:

I rarely, if ever, make any commentary on the board these days because its a far more businesslike approach with better incumbents.

I hope you reconsider. Your submissions are missed, along with many others who have gone MIA, at least by one American.

That'd be me. ;0)

Christine Foster
60 Posted 03/04/2019 at 23:58:21
Lee, in your piece you brought up that BK had made mistakes but indicated in your opinion that he was somewhat driven to it by the unjust vilification of a minority of fans.. Chicken and egg
which came first?
I referred to having balance too, after all, it was you who made a case for a chairman who made mistakes but at heart did some wonderful things for the club. (A significant part of your piece) Just by saying he made some mistakes is like trying to varnish over woodworm.. surely balance was absent in your summation and responses?

Lee, just because he is an Evertonian does not mean he should be loved and taken at his word. Remember he associated with the shadier side of financial funding from off shore tax havens.. pawned the lawnmowers but never took a penny out of the club (or put one in) the list really is too long to state here and as I said, we have to move on. Perhaps it would have been better to remember what a lovely day you had and left it there?

Lee Mandaracas
61 Posted 03/04/2019 at 00:05:02
Dave (57), I dedicated 4 of the article's 10 paragraphs to the fact that I was (and remain) disappointed anyone involved with our club could be apparently jaded by and nervous of our own fans. For anyone to then allege the entire piece was a Kenwright thread is disproportionate. It also ignores my statement in the comment to which you refer (55) where I said: It wasn't a Kenwright thread Tony (although I anticipated it may become that regretfully).

I trust the mathematics of 40% versus 60% are now clear as well as understanding the direction of my point within that 40% was challenging us as fans and not him. That said, I have responded to those wishing to make it all about his failings and thus contributed to your misconception.

Now that I have clarified I am happy to withdraw from that element of the thread and hope readers can take this in the context it was intended. I will just refer you to my final paragraph of the original piece, which Tony Abrahams (19) found so nauseating. Have a good night all

Brian Williams
62 Posted 04/04/2019 at 00:13:04
Christine. I don't "think" Lee stated that Kenwright had made mistakes because he was vilified. I believe what he said was that Kenwright withdrew somewhat because of the vilification.

And why should Lee have "left it there"? People are quick enough on here to voice their negative opinions so why shouldn't Lee be free to voice ones that may be less negative or, dare I say, even positive?

It's all very well hanging all the blame on one man but does anybody truly know "for sure" exactly what was done and why?

I doubt anyone on here truly does, which makes in my eyes, any opinion, whether positive or negative, equally as valid.

And, if people don't know "for sure" exactly what happened, then all they write and opine to is no more than an opinion and doesn't represent fact — no matter how loud they shout or how many times they shout it.


Lee Mandaracas
63 Posted 04/04/2019 at 00:14:43
Christine (60), As for your suggestion: "Perhaps it would have been better to remember what a lovely day you had and left it there?" you may be right. How dare I have an opinion, let alone voice it! The fact that I tried to share it and be positive, resulting in some of these comments is a mere indictment in itself.

You stated: "I referred to having balance too, after all, it was you who made a case for a chairman who made mistakes but at heart did some wonderful things for the club. (A significant part of your piece) Just by saying he made some mistakes is like trying to varnish over woodworm.. surely balance was absent in your summation and responses?" I did nothing of the sort and suggest you actually reread the piece before making such statements that anyone can read are inaccurate for themselves.

That had to be corrected so now I am off to bed. I will leave everyone else to the Kenwright battle and hope anyone getting dragged into those comments might just go back to the original piece that was intended to be happy and positive in the main. Thanks for reading and the supportive comments. I don't want to turn this (for me) into anything other than the memory of a fantastic day for myself and my family.

Brian Williams
64 Posted 04/04/2019 at 00:20:24
Lee #63.

Lee, I feel for you mate. You wanted to share what was an amazing day and some on here won't let you have that, won't be happy for you to have had that day. No, they just, as usual, highjack the thread to go over the same old ground and lay the blame at someone's door because they have to have someone to blame.

You take what you got from the day and cherish it, mate, and, if people can't merely congratulate you and be happy for you, it's their problem – not yours, mate.

Lee Mandaracas
65 Posted 04/04/2019 at 00:24:37
Thanks Brian. Much appreciated. Whatever our opinions at least we will all share the same voice come Sunday afternoon, even if only for ninety minutes.
Anton Walsh
66 Posted 04/04/2019 at 07:58:49
Kiran #58
Besides slating Klasson he was quick to praise Morelas I think more of someone he liked rather than just football prowess. He was talking about players they missed out on. One player was Roco at man u. They missed him so ended up with Zouma. When I told him that he had dodged a bullet with Roco he listened and appreciated the advice of of my superior knowledge. I do take your point though but at the time enjoyed his company. Just saying.
Tony Abrahams
67 Posted 04/04/2019 at 08:00:22
“Very Strange” to say it wasn’t about Kenwright, Lee, when you read what you wrote in your thread?

I had a great day with my family, met some of the Everton board, but we’re better than to give the chairman stick, because he seemed very suspicious of outsiders? (Why even mention it Lee?)

Each to their own, but don’t try and say you never turned it into a Kenwright thread Lee, especially when your suspicions were always going to be proved right mate.

I also think it’s better to say nothing if you haven’t got nothing nice to say, but it might be good to be a “nice DJ” but we are talking about a professional football club here mate, one that used to win trophies, and not be happy with being the best of the rest, with a chairman who constantly robbed Peter to pay Paul, because he didn’t want to sell his train-set.

Dave Abrahams
68 Posted 04/04/2019 at 09:12:58
Lee, you knew exactly what sort of response you would get, and it was all based on your assumption that Kenwright was frightened to meet Evertonians, an assumption you felt, so nothing more than you assuming he was frightened.

Farewell to you as well Lee, hope you have a great life from now on

Brian, the thread wasn’t hijacked it was invited to reply by Lee’s four paragraph piece on Kenwright.

Paul Bernard
69 Posted 04/04/2019 at 09:47:26
Lee, whether or not you had any intention to turn this into a Kenwright thread, just mentioning his name ran the risk of doing so.

Do not blame yourself for that though, I read the piece and could see it was a positive piece but also a little insight/opinion on how BK may be a little on edge around his own fans because of his tenure dividing the fanbase.

I think you should just ignore the whole pro-BK/Anti-BK argument and remember the occasion you described. I have stated on various social media platforms that us fans seem to have developed this 'im a better evertonian than you' syndrome like those across the park. If you support BK then your a crap fan and support mediocrity, if your anti-BK then your a fellow saint.

Whilst BK made errors, I cant help but think he was simply the face of Everton whilst some people behind the scenes got away with murder. The whole board during BK's leadership has quite simply reaped the rewards of such a position on the gravy train that is the premier league.

Lee Mandaracas
70 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:10:29
Paul Bernard (69), that's spot on thanks and far fairer than some of the snide, distorted digs from the two immediately above that I won't dignify with a response.
Dave Abrahams
71 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:28:08
Lee (70), I’m laughing at the response you never made.
John McFarlane Snr
72 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:35:39
Hi Lee [70] I try to avoid getting into pro-/anti-Kenwright discussions but, having enjoyed the company of both Dave and Tony, I can tell you that they are decent people, and for that reason they deserve a 'Dignified response'; I think you could have ended your post in a more 'Dignified' manner.
Tony Abrahams
73 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:42:58
Paul, Bernard will tear us apart, again! Saint if you hate him?

It’s all just opinions mate, but Kenwright’s reign,has stood for mediocrity at best, when you consider that it’s the longest period in our long history without winning a trophy.

He said the “Kings Dock- money” was ringfenced, then tried to move us to Kirkby, even though he didn’t really want to go there?

He sold Bellefield, then sold Finch/Farm, before it was built. I think this move was going to cost Everton, around £80 Million over the long-term, until the council bought it and rented it to Everton at a cheaper rate?

This was described as an innovative move by Robert Elstone? so the next time someone asks you to play that “Elvis classic” Lee, (suspicious minds) just remember why loads of people would prefer it, if we just left Bill Kenwright, to just keep slowly drifting into the background, with as little fuss as possible, hopefully.

Tony Abrahams
74 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:51:52
I think “snide” is when people are false Lee, like reverting to your last sentence, when you knew quite well what I was going on about mate.

I think “snide”is trying to change people’s opinions, and then feeling insulted when they are not having it.

I’m many things, but undignified and snide, are not amongst them. You thank the people who agree with you, because they are much fairer !

James Hughes
75 Posted 04/04/2019 at 10:54:10
if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing !!

this site would be very quiet if everyone adhered to that, maybe a post a day.

Been a very strange thread and the original poster has been derided for even mentioning Voldermort. There has been no justification for using the 'we hate BPB cudgel' on the Lee.

I have no love love for BPB, he has earned plenty of dollar from us while n charge. I am even slightly, very slightly, glad Kings dock never happened. If he had been in charge they probably would have used chipboard and plaster board, it would have already be in a waste state the Old Lady.

Lee, glad you had a great day and more importantly saw us put in a great performance

Brian Williams
76 Posted 04/04/2019 at 13:39:19
Dave #68.

Brian, the thread wasn't hijacked – it was invited to reply by Lee's four-paragraph piece on Kenwright.

Dave, we'll agree to disagree, mate. :-)

Dave Abrahams
77 Posted 04/04/2019 at 14:04:02
Brian (76), well we always do when it comes to Kenwright, see you after the Man.United game.
Kevin Prytherch
78 Posted 04/04/2019 at 14:04:25
The way I read it, the original post had nothing to do with the merits of Bills tenure as Chairman.

It simply pointed out that it’s a shame if he doesn’t feel he can talk to fans anymore because of the abuse he has received in the past.

Personally I think that, if that is the case (and it might well have been coincidental and to do with something completely unrelated), it is sad.

Lee Mandaracas
79 Posted 04/04/2019 at 14:53:21
Dave (71), John (72), Tony (74) I have to clarify at no point did I call Tony, Dave or anyone else snide. I stated Tony's & Dave's comments immediately prior were snide and I stand by that but in no way does it mean they, as individuals are such. The reasons I considered them snide comments are

Dave: "Farewell to you as well Lee, hope you have a great life from now on. Brian, the thread wasn’t hijacked it was invited to reply by Lee’s four paragraph piece on Kenwright." It was a ten paragraph article containing four about Kenwright and a photo of my family & I. However, Dave's first sentence there says it all for the definition of snide: derogatory or mocking in an indirect way

Referring to Tony's: "I also think it’s better to say nothing if you haven’t got nothing nice to say, but it might be good to be a “nice DJ” but we are talking about a professional football club here mate, one that used to win trophies ."

Tony (74) My calling your comments snide and not wishing to dignify them with a response - something I have been invited to since do by John (72) - does not mean I was calling you such. My reference was to the comments and not the people who made them. I have qualified why I defined them that way and stand by it but that does not mean I hold any ill-will, resentment or judgement to anyone on these pages.

Thankfully, the majority on here seem to have read the article in the spirit it was intended (yourself included initially) and I thanked them for that. Not for agreeing with me as you allege but for interpreting the article in the spirit it was written. Nothing more, nothing less. Just as Kevin (78) put it so well.

Let's move back on to celebrating a good win against Londoners and hoping for another come this weekend.

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 04/04/2019 at 15:08:50
Brian@64, that’s why I said I think these Bill Kenwright threads, should cease mate.

Lee said it only became a Kenwright thread because of me and a few others, but I obviously disagree with that.

Read it again Brian, because it’s our own fault, that Kenwright didn’t want to engage, in Lee’s opinion, or rather the fault of people who have aimed abuse Bill’s way.

He then says that he would find it impossible for anyone to say Kenwrights actions, have not been borne out of anything less than an absolute unwavering love of our club?

I told Lee I’d take him to Kirkby, but I’m glad KEOIC, who definitely never earned a penny out of this court case, stopped a move that would have been the death of Everton FC IMO, but thankfully we will never know?

Lee highjacked his own thread the minute he wrote such lovely words about Bill, which is very unfortunate really because some people can’t accept that Bill has only ever been in it for his love of Everton Football Club, and that is very sad either way.

Lee I’m not snide or undignified, I’m glad you and your family had a great day mate, and think you should go more often, especially if it means Everton are going to play like that every time you go, The end!


Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 04/04/2019 at 15:27:39
Lee (79) have a look at your last paragraph @ (63)that’s what my “ farewell to you as well Lee etc” was about.

If I wanted to say something to you, I would have said it straight, nothing snide about it,there would have been no doubt about it.

Lee Mandaracas
82 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:06:05
Dave (81) your actual (carefully edited in requote) comment was "Farewell to you as well Lee, hope you have a great life from now on"

Nothing snide about that at all is there? Don't bother saying it straight. You officially have nothing I wish to hear.

Tony (80) you either did not read my comment (79) clarifying both 'snide' and 'undignified' before posting this or perhaps chose to ignore it. Then saying I hijacked my own thread, how deluded can one person be? You have made NINE comments on a thread you have almost exclusively directed as attacks on Kenwright and yet have the temerity in comment 54 to say "I honestly think these Kenwright threads should be stopped because they just goes round in circles." then repeat that assertion here. How about you go back to the photo and read the other 60% of the article you chose to ignore because it didn't suit your toxic agenda?

You have your opinions and I have mine. I tried to be polite with you both and repeatedly stated I was not being personal to either of you in spite of not being afforded the same courtesy. That's me logging out of my own attempt at being positive for our club. Well done!

Dave Abrahams
83 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:09:14
Lee (82)Thank God for that, I sincerely hope you keep that promise. Unbelievable.
Jamie Crowley
84 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:14:49
This thread is ridiculous.

Everyone apologize and knock it the fuck off.

You're welcome.

Your Dad.

Tony Abrahams
85 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:33:23
Boring Jamie, I know. I hadn’t read your post before I posted my own Lee, but it doesn’t really matter to be honest, because we both feel that the other fella, is deluded.

Steve Brown
86 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:42:23
Hallelujah Jamie Crowley.

Lee, lovely photo and hope you had an awesome day out.

Kenwright, time to retire with your millions so that great fans like the Abrahams won't need to get so annoyed with you.

Alan J Thompson
87 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:52:29
My apologies, Lee, personal experience should have told me never to kiss and tell even by two consenting oh,bugger, after the last one who knows where this will lead!
Tony Abrahams
88 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:58:11
Leave it Steve, I stopped being annoyed with Kenwright, the minute Moshiri took over, but he won’t be no good either, unless he’s got “BIG AL” waiting in the wings, to take us back to the promised land!

I just don’t know if I’m trying to be Positive or deluded though? Kidding myself maybe, but I’m not sorry that I’ve never had anytime for liars, and that’s why Bill Kenwright, usually brings out the worst in me.

Tom Bowers
89 Posted 04/04/2019 at 17:10:38
Has Tim Cahill gotten his O.B.E. yet for his services to football ?
Seems to me that almost anyone who has a job in the ''entertainment'' industry will get one just for doing their jobs.
Southgate !!!! really ? Anyone else agree that these awards are a joke these days.
Stan Schofield
90 Posted 04/04/2019 at 17:41:39
Tom, not just these days, they've always been a joke, and a lot of people have turned down these awards.

I think Harry Kane got one as well, which underlines how ridiculous it is.

Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 04/04/2019 at 17:45:16
I’m with you on that Stan, and I think I’d probably have more in common, with the people who have refused these awards.
Brian Williams
92 Posted 04/04/2019 at 18:05:06
Hey lads. Where's the meet after the Man Utd victory?

I mean our victory over Man Utd.

Stan Schofield
93 Posted 04/04/2019 at 18:10:20
Tony, when you think there's loads of people doing voluntary work for the good of others, the idea that someone gets an award for (in the words of Bruce Springstein) getting paid a King's ransom for what comes naturally, is bizarre.
John McFarlane Snr
94 Posted 04/04/2019 at 18:16:46
Hi Brian,[920 the get together is taking place in the 'Excelsior' Dale Street.
Brian Williams
95 Posted 04/04/2019 at 18:22:42
Cheers, John!
Tony Abrahams
96 Posted 04/04/2019 at 19:57:16
I’ve got no time for the establishment Stan, for mostly the same reasons why I’ve gone on too long on this thread!
Dave Williams
97 Posted 04/04/2019 at 21:21:00
I enjoyed reading about your day out Lee and it’s a shame that the thread became what it did rather than a celebration of what was a great day for your family.
Dave and Tony always come across as decent and reasonable guys and just as you are entitled to your views so they are entitled to theirs. No need for anything other than a friendly exchange of opposite views- ultimately we are all on the same side.
Phil Parker
98 Posted 05/04/2019 at 18:58:24
Nice piece Lee. Bill, who is just a fairly well off fan, took the club on when nobody would touch us with a bargepole. Nobody else with real money has tried to buy the club since, until Moshiri. Nobody, anywhere, has said they wanted to buy us but Bill wouldn't sell. King's Dock would have been great, but we couldn't afford it. Kirkby was offered to us by Tesco, free land and help with stadium build. It was the only offer at the time, but a bad idea, dropped as soon as we could. And we couldn't finance that move either. Then Moshiri came in with real money, and business sense. He now owns the club, and we move on. Bill is still a fan, who is pleased we have someone to progress the club, like us all. In my opinion, everything he has done he has done in the best interests of Everton. Only my opinion, others disagree. All the best Lee. Up the Toffs.
John McFarlane Snr
99 Posted 05/04/2019 at 19:06:38
Hi Phil [98] are you the 'Phil Parker who got me the photos of Alex Young, and John Charles, whether you are or not.
Joe Corgan
100 Posted 05/04/2019 at 20:14:42
I’ve been fortunate enough to meet most of these and a few Everton legends at Goodison.

There have been one or two former players who didn’t seem to want to engage with the great unwashed but I have to say, Bill Kenwright has never been anything other than welcoming and charming with me.

Perhaps you just caught him on a bad day?

Andy Crooks
101 Posted 05/04/2019 at 20:32:24
Lee, I have no time for Bill Kenwright, none at all. However, if I met him and he offered his hand, I would shake it. It may be lacking a principled stance but it would be courteous.
Phil Parker
102 Posted 06/04/2019 at 23:24:20
Tis I John. Glad you are doing ok. Up the Toffs.
John McFarlane Snr
103 Posted 06/04/2019 at 23:57:02
Hi Phil [102] it's along time since you heard Alan Jackson of Radio Merseyside saying, the next caller is John from Skem, If you're going to the match tomorrow, I'll look out for you outside the Winslow, or better still if you can make it to the Excelsior on the 21st we can 'chew the fat' .
Terry White
104 Posted 07/04/2019 at 01:38:26
Thank you, Phil (#98) for a well-reasoned post.
Tony Abrahams
105 Posted 08/04/2019 at 11:17:38
Come on Terry, Kirkby, wasn’t dropped the way it’s described in Phil’s post mate.
Christine Foster
106 Posted 08/04/2019 at 20:21:54
As I said Tony, its called Revisionism.. or BS... take your pick. I despair of people as I get older.. "bangs head against wall" and decides to make a cup of tea rather than respond to Kirkby post .amid mutterings of "government enquiry" stands on cat.. kicks cat.. Gets a can of lager instead of PG Tips..

Throws empty can at cat Cat remained Blue Bill no hang on, the cat doesn't deserve that..

Tony Abrahams
107 Posted 08/04/2019 at 20:31:40
I always think the only thing worth getting old for is a little bit of experience and Knowledge, Christine, but I’ve learned it’s better not to have an agenda though, in case it gets in the way of the truth.
Dave Abrahams
108 Posted 09/04/2019 at 00:17:54
Christine (106), I’ve had a few, just got in, but think I’ve still got my wits about me, but agree banging your head against the wall and making a cup of tea is a much better idea than responding to the Kirkby post, oh, and Christine, give your cat a saucer of milk on me, in fact make that a double saucer of milk.
Paul Bernard
109 Posted 09/04/2019 at 16:36:26
Tony @73, sorry fella only just seen your reply.
I do not view anti-BK or pro-BK as anything other than fellow blues with opinions. I see both sides of the argument.
He was an actor so maybe being chairman of EFC was his greatest piece of acting he ever produced? Maybe he had Evertons best interests at heart but didn't have the money?

Who knows, I just think the whole BK argument creeps up far too easily. Unfortunately it dominates most forums and cannot be discussed in a decent manner. It is often used on social media as a stick to beat people with depending on your viewpoint.

Jay Harris
110 Posted 09/04/2019 at 16:58:12
"There's none so blind as those that cannot see"
Dermot Byrne
111 Posted 09/04/2019 at 17:36:04
Just a simple nice story to me Lee.

Sadly I some of the sanctimonious comments re BK were inevitable but hey, each has a view.

I personally have never come across a very rich person who hasn't pulled a dodgy fast one or two. Often at the expense of people with less money. Do it as a footy Chair it will be amplified.

Not condoning it one little bit but don't expect to be a football fan in PL days and expect a saint as an owner. Contradiction. It is a playground of the rich and fans are the background noise that make the product sell so well.

To me it sadly feels a bit like extras in a Hollywood blockbuster questioning the morals of the owner of the Studio.

But back to your story Lee...just a nice tale and a great memory I hope.

Brian Williams
112 Posted 09/04/2019 at 17:50:27
I'd just like to see cold hard proof of some of the things that were "allegedly" done by "you know who."

Proof, because without it it's just someone's opinion no matter how hard they argue it and how loud they shout.

Tony Abrahams
113 Posted 09/04/2019 at 21:09:46
Like the RING-PIECED money.
Brian Williams
114 Posted 09/04/2019 at 22:12:34
Haha Tony. I think it's ring "fenced" mate.
But on that subject.

Where does EFC fund their £30M from? (for the Kings dock project).

  I have been told 2 equally plausible variations) but both Joe Dwyer (Liverpool Vision) and Mike Storey (Liverpool council) have said that EFC have PROVED the money is there.  As their necks are on the block for any screw ups, they will have made damn sure before expressing this confidence.  Obvious possibilities include more debt (aarrgghh!) or new equity from existing shareholders or new investors who are lined up ......etc, etc.
Dwyer and Storey in on it too?

Tony Abrahams
115 Posted 09/04/2019 at 22:21:30
A lie, is still a lie, however many people you get to tell it Brian, which I think is the only proof, I can conclude from the outcome.
Brian Williams
116 Posted 09/04/2019 at 22:35:58
I just think Tony mate, and have a "small" amount of info from someone who worked within the club and dealt with some of the finances, that the thing the man in question is guilty of is being a bloody fool, a goldfish in a pool of sharks.

I do believe he did have the clubs best interests at heart but was, as far as the finances are/were concerned a complete fucking amateur, out of his depth and unfortunately trusting certain people, and shit scared of those same people who played him like a fiddle and most certainly didn't have the clubs best interest at heart.

I respect the fact you have another opinion mate I really do but everything I was told has lead me to my take on it.

I could be wrong and I'm certainly not gonna fall out with any fellow Blue over it, let alone you mate.

I just hope that history will show it as a mere blip on our journey back to the top.

COYB.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads

© ToffeeWeb