Poor finishing and a sloppy defence at Ewood Park

Thursday, 26 July, 2018 219comments  |  Jump to last
Blackburn Rovers 3 - 0 Everton

The fifth pre-season game kicked off this evening at Ewood Park where Everton took on Blackburn Rovers. But poor finishing from Tosun and others, despite a bright showing from new signing Richarlison, denied Everton the goals needed in the second half to make up for a shameful first period.

With Davy Klaassen departing to Werder Bremen and new signing Richarlison expected to play a part, we could finally be seeing the clearer intentions of Marco Siva in terms of his preferred squad for the upcoming season.

Sigurdsson starts tonight's game (wearing the No 10 shirt vacated by the departed Wayne Rooney!), while Gueye and Richarlison are on the bench among a raft of substitutes.

Some 3,365 Everton fans made the reatively short trip into the heart of Lancashire, with Everton kicking off and Mo Besic soon showing off his ball skills with a fine pirouette. However, the early pace was set by the home side, Bradley Dack picked the ball up and fired a wonderful strike just wide of Stekelenburg's goal.

From a Blackburn corner, the ball was lofted over to the back post where a speculative header from Lenihan looped high over the stranded Everton goalie to drop just inside the far post, giving the home side an early lead.

Everton became rather tentative after that shock, with too much backward passing and very little inventive forward play, the front men being well isolated. It was 20 mins before Robinson put in a decent cross to the back post where Kevin Mirallas was poised to burst the net with a crisp and masterful volley... but mishit the ball completely!

Blackburn continued to keep Everton manly in their own half, passing back to Stekelenburg with irritating frequency and showing very few signs of playing the ball with meaningful intent up the field.

McGrew took out Jonjoe Kenny and picked up a yellow card (32'). Everton made nothing of the free-kick or the subsequent corner, and Davies petulantly grabbed the shirt of a sprite-footed Blackburn player, earning him a very cheap yellow card from Martin Atkinson.

Some better play saw Davies set up Sigurdsson on the six-yard line but he could only pass it back tamely to the keeper rather than leathering it into the gaping net behind him. Keeny looked to be taken out as he readied to shot from the corner of the area, but no penalty.

At the other end, hopeless defending and absent challenges let the unmarked Samuel hammer home the second goal of the game. Pitiful stuff on the whole... is Silva trying to prove a point here?

Half-time and Marco Silva made nine changes, with only Sandro and Stekelenburg avoiding the cut, Richarlison making his first appearance in the Royal Blue shirt of Everton FC./p>

Some better football ensued, a great cross from Coleman picking out Tosun who's header seemed to be a little over-confident, the keeper saving it well. Then a half-chance for Richarlison. That didn't stall Blackburn who continued to pepper the Everton goal with shots from distance, Stekelenburg saving competently. Tosun saw space for a shot that he launched, er, spaceward.

Dowell swung over a high deep free-kick from the right and Richarlison was the last man but could not direct his header inside the post. Richarlison showed some desire when he got back to dispossess a Blackburn attacker with a fine tackle.

Blackburn almost struck again, first from a free-kick where Baines was fouled as the ball whizzed along the Everton goalline, then a poor clearance that saw Dack try to curl one around Stekelenburg.

Baines got well forward off a Richarlison ball and Dowell seemed set but was taken out. Richarlison then tried an audacious chip from nothing that just evaded the top corner! Lovely improvisation!!!

Dack finally got his goal, impertinently pushing Jagielka off the ball and lashing home for the third Blackburn goal, despite the better forward play from Everton.

Richarlison was fouled, Sandro putting in a great deep ball that the keeper batted away. Dowell looked to run in on goal but passed instead of shooting. Then he tried to play in Richarlison, winning a corner that was wasted when Sandro failed to get onside fromm the short corner.

A good cross from Dowell on the right was intercepted. Then A brilliant ball in from Richarlison laid it on a plate for Tosun, who this time headed wide when it seemed easier to bury in the net.

A brilliant interchange between Richarlison and Baines seemed detuned for a super finish that was denied by a well-timed block that sent the Brazilian tumbling. Valasic, on as a sub for Sandro, had two bites of the rather sour cherry as the ball just would not run for the Blues.

Baines put in a fine cross after some good work on the left but this time it was Richarlison who could not get his header on target. Vlasic on the left did well, then Coleman on the right, winning a corner, over everyone from Kieran Dowell.

The lack of goals despite some excellent build-up play has to be a concern, while Everton continue to give away sloppy goals that continue to flatter their modest pre-season opponents.

Baines was aggrieved by a totally reckless tackle from Travis that was not punished by Martin Atkinson, leaving a rather foul taste at the end, a little fractious gathering in the middle.

Everton: Stekelenburg, Robinson (46' Baines), Williams (46' Jagielka), Pennington (46' Keane), Kenny (46' Coleman), Besic (46' Gueye), Davies [Y:34'] (46' Schneiderlin), Sigurdsson (46' Dowell), Mirallas (46' Richarlison), Sandro (78' Vlasic), Niasse (46' Tosun).
Subs no Used: Hewelt.


Reader Comments (219)

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Bill Griffiths
1 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:08:13
Red Echo says Brands is at the game, thought he was supposed to be in Spain sorting out the transfer business.
Derek Knox
2 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:13:51
Looks like he is giving the peripheral players another, and possibly final chance to show if they are worth keeping.

Only Siggy and Davies of the usual starters being given a run out, I suspect if most haven't shown any signs by half-time, there will be changes made.

Brian Williams
3 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:14:11
Bill. The Red Echo has probably previously reported that Lord Lucan and Elvis were at last seasons pre season friendlies.
Lev Vellene
4 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:14:28
Bill (#1),

Brands is pointing where the signing-guys should go! New age, new ways of doing things!

Allardyce might still be walking there on his knees, though, if they had an older and less excitable player to sell.

Bill Gienapp
5 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:22:42
Silva's certainly given Sandro every opportunity to impress this pre-season.
Derek Turner
6 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:26:02
Important game for Robinson, Kenny, Sandro and Pennington. See if they are up to it. Niasse to score hopefully. Narrow win. COYB.
John Wignall
7 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:30:02
Giving fringe players another chance. Besic, Sandro, Mirallas, Williams... it should be their last chance.
Rick Pattinson
8 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:30:43
It's a 2-0 win with Niasse and Sandro finally scoring.
Stephen Brown
9 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:40:02
That team would be relegated from the Premier League! Worrying!
Brian Harrison
10 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:52:26
No Lookman or Bolasie... are they on their way? Still no Walcott so basically he has missed all pre-season despite having had most of the summer relaxing.
Christian Hill
11 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:57:10
I think we will be looking for a new manager this time next year.. again!! I think he's left the transfers too late to get anyone of note who will make a positive difference for our progression to those European places.
John Wignall
12 Posted 26/07/2018 at 19:58:23
Any reason why Walcott is not included?
Craig Mills
13 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:18:14
Looking a very poor team to me, goal threat is virtually none.
John Wignall
14 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:20:05
Looks like same as usual.
Nathan Jones
15 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:24:43
Paid to watch the game on line, but a bit like our midfield it's frozen –not moving, not working and very frustrating.
Stuart Sharp
16 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:29:12
I'm a season ticket holder, but yet again haven't been sent the VIP code. Got the Porto one at half time last time after emailing to complain, but nothing so far tonight. Anyone willing to share it?
Brian Harrison
17 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:31:18
Link to game frozen. I saw the first 12/13 minutes, they look very poor, front 3 hardly touched the ball.

With just a couple of weeks to the start of the season, I can't understand why he has fielded practically a reserve side. Surely he needs to bed in his ideas with the players he will be expecting to start games – not this lot.

Rick Pattinson
18 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:34:20
Oh no, 2-0 down already... FFS... Sack him! Sack 'em all.
Joe McMahon
19 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:35:36
Christian Hill (#11), the squad is shite. Everton have never played in the Champions League, what do you expect Silva to do in a matter of weeks.

The defence is either old/awful and the only striker we've had in years who scores goals left a year ago. Everton have two good players, Coleman and Pickford. The manager is not a miracle worker.

Mike Powell
20 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:36:12
Shocking first half. It's that bad, it's embarrassing. Surely none of these are going to start against Wolves? I feel sick watching it...
Frank McGregor
21 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:42:18
A month ago, I predicted Everton would finish in bottom six this season and possibly be in bottom 3 with Watford and Huddersfield.

Is big Sam still available or should we wait till November?

Stephen McNally
22 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:42:30
OMG... Everton might need a new manager because of no new signings! Jesus, Silva has only been in charge for a handful of friendly games. Besides, it is Brands who will have the final say on new signings not Silva.

If Everton fans continue to press for a new manager, during every bad spell, the club will sink because of a lack stability. The cost to Everton in making its third managerial appointment in a few short years is enormous because of payouts to: managers, support staff and the issue with losing millions on unfancied players.

Brands/Silva must surely be given time to get the club moving in the right direction.

Stewart Lowe
23 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:44:04
Awful football so far. Williams can't make a simple straight-line pass and Stekelenburg has seen lots of action, but not from Blackburn attacks, just lots and lots of back-passes.

I have not seen Tom Davies play well for more than a year, and just because he is an Evertonian doesn't mean he can't be moved on too.

Karl Meighan
24 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:48:16
Results in pre-season mean little. Sigurdsson apart, I wouldn't expect any of them players to start in the Premier League. However, they should be ready and have a point to prove – not that it shows up to now.
Philip Bunting
25 Posted 26/07/2018 at 20:57:15
I'd say Graham Stuart pulled the plug out of the camera before ToffeeWeb goes into meltdown.

Do these players realise they are playing for their futures at all? It sure don't look like it.

Jeff Armstrong
26 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:00:22
Code is bburn18 but it's not actually working — just a blank screen with a massive pause button in the middle.
Nathan Jones
27 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:01:03
Yeah, the feed has started working on the second half.

No, it stopped working again.

Not sure who I feel more sorry for — me or the poor buggers who are there who have paid more and have to watch the whole shambles.

Gary Borrows
28 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:01:13
I really don't know why we bother... wtf!?!
Bill Gienapp
29 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:05:25
Literally every starter subbed at halftime except for Sandro (and Stekelenburg). I'll reiterate my point made in post #5, LOL.
Jeff Armstrong
30 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:12:42
Keane... WTF?
Amit Vithlani
31 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:17:45
Frightening stuff. Not going to go mental over this as it's pre-season, but I am scratching my head wondering how so many highly paid players can actually be capable of being so poor.

This is not so much deadwood, more like noxious rotting carcasses.

Craig Mills
32 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:22:59
Anyone starting to get just the slightest bit worried, we have scored 1 goal in 4 pre-season friendlies and in the main looked absolutely crap (forget the part-timers in Austria) the team looks disjointed, weak, slow and showing no desire. To think we kick off in a few weeks is a major fucking worry.
Pat Kelly
33 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:24:20
Isn't it also Blackburn's pre-season?
Joe McMahon
34 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:25:56
Amit – If we are being honest, even many of the younger players aren't delivering, Calvert-Lewin and Davies – would any of the top 6 start them (or even have them)?

As for Baines and Jagielka, they have been with us for years and we've done nowt. Both are too slow and Baines doesn't stop crosses and turns his back on shots. None of the above players would be in Spurs' squad, so why the hell us (as always)???

Paul Birmingham
35 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:27:16
Lacklustre, and lack of commitment... This is the last chance saloon and I'd say last game for many tonight, playing for EFC.

I can't see how there's not more commitment and care. Pre-season but to turn the players we have and what may arrive over 3 weeks into a decent team, a team that has the basic good team attributes, which we all know, will in my view take miracles.

Let's hope and hope for some more spirit, and miracles.

Stewart Lowe
36 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:28:15
What if Degne and Mina are watching this and thinking, absolutely no way.
Pat Kelly
37 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:31:20
Paul (#35), last game for many tonight, I wish. Unless we sign a shed-load, we're probably gonna see a lot of them during the season with injuries and suspensions.
Peter Gorman
38 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:34:14
Such awful footballers. There has been no hint of professional pride for over a year now (some would argue longer).

These last days of the window could see silly money being thrown about because who in their right mind would sign for us.

Pat Kelly
39 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:39:18
Once again, where are the goals going to come from? Still living with the failure to replace Lukaku with a proven striker. And none targeted apparently. It'll be a blight on the coming season again.
Mike Galley
40 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:41:56
I try not to pay too much attention to pre-season results and performances. I didn't watch it tonight so can I ask those who did the following:

1) Do we have a genuine reason to be concerned about the coming season?

2) Do we have a genuine reason to be hopeful about the coming season?

As I say, I don't usually pay too much attention to these games but I would prefer to win them, if for no other reason than a bit of confidence building.

Steve Ferns
41 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:41:58
I don't know what was worse, the club for the (lack of) broadcast or the performance on the pitch.

The only bright spark was Richarlison. I expect Silva will be talking up more than 6 new signings needed. He didn't look happy at all. We were terrible at both ends.

Karl Meighan
42 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:42:59
Guess that's why Silva said we need 5 or 6, to be fair 2nd half saw a improvement, not that it took much. It's always frustrating to lose but best the management weed out the shite now and not during the season.
Stewart Lowe
43 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:43:27
The worry here is that, even when a team plays poor, quality players should have one-off moments that put them above the rest; I saw none of that tonight.

A massive problem Silva has, is that he is using up all the friendlies to check out what Everton have on their books, which leaves no time to play a first 11 and stick with it.

We are running out of friendlies. Everton are going to have to use 6 or 7 Premier League games as friendlies to find a first 11. Not looking great.

These can all go, for me:

Tony Twist
44 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:45:47
Disgraceful, utterly embarrassing and no excuses for that performance. From the word go, Silva and our DOF should have sidelined the deadwood and concentrated 24/7 – and I mean 24/7 – on the first team and subs, getting them playing to their strengths and trying to improve their weaknesses.

Shambolic management of the situation.

Jim Bennings
45 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:46:20
Just a really poor team; end of story.

Overrated players that get smoke blown up their arses (to some fans the young players are great, I've watched enough football to comfortably say they are at best mediocre, regardless of some being Blues).

We don't have a single defender playing at the top of his game, where's the present day Sylvain Distin or Davie Weir?

Keane is simply shit, Jags and Williams need putting out of their misery as soon as possible, Baines can't do what he used to and is now only a 50 percent player.

The midfield will hardly strike fear into any of the top 6, Schneiderlin and Davies would struggle to get in Southampton's first team.

Gueye doesn't do anything worldly other than break a few things up and for £45 million Sigurdsson is too immobile to affect games in open play, has some attributes but doesn't do anything like enough.

None of our strikers convince me, some are effort players but none are top quality and none are top 6 material.

Outside Pickford, Coleman, Walcott and obviously Richarlison, I don't think any should feel safe.

Fran Mitchell
46 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:49:37
Stekelenburg (shit back-up), Robinson (46' Baines), Williams (shit) (46' Jagielka - old back-up), Pennington (not good enough) (46' Keane- not good enough), Kenny - back up (46' Coleman - should be captain), Besic - not good enough (46' Gueye - good), Davies (back up, needs to step up) (46' Schneiderlin - just go), Sigurdsson - starter (46' Dowell - back up, maybe go on loan), Mirallas - got to go (46' Richarlison - starter), Sandro - got to go (78' Vlasic - back up, send on loan), Niasse - nice guy, not good enough, especially as a starter (46' Tosun - hopefully can show his worth).

So essentially, if this team has any semblance to what we put out against Wolves, we are screwed

Bobby Mallon
47 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:50:08
Micheal Kenrick – don't you mean we are a rubbish team with no chance of finishing in top ten, and with very average youngsters. Very poor indeed.
Colin Malone
48 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:52:06
Need a midfielder with guile. Getting bored with two holding midfielders. Talking about guile, Richarlison has buckets of it, maybe too much. Wasted on the wing. I'd like to see him as our Number 10.
Christian Hill
49 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:52:41
Joe McMahon (#19), Stephen McNally (#22)

It's the way the league is, if you don't impress instantly, people get on your case.

I will admit that I was disappointed with the appointment of Silva, I just don't see him as the manager to improve Everton FC. Hopefully he proves me wrong but I can't help feeling that we will all be disappointed when the season starts and when it finishes.

Stewart Lowe
50 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:53:17
Being a blue, Tom Davies should be ashamed of himself. He was great in his first season after fans were pleading with Koeman to start him is games. Then, just like many young footballers, they get sidelined by all the trappings that come with being a young footballer, money, young women, gambling, their ego's. Suddenly, they feel that they have already made it.

Davies was woeful last season, and looking lazy in pre-season. Barkley wasn't good enough for Everton, neither is Davies.

Darren Murphy
51 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:54:28
Can't argue with that, Jim. Absolute shite atm, yes it's pre-season etc. The aging players and not replacing Lukaku's goals is not on.

We shall see where we are at the Wolves game so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully Silva and Brands have a few tricks up their sleeves.

John Audsley
52 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:54:49
Utter crap.

Why the hell Williams is allowed near the squad is beyond me. We can't score for toffee but I'm more concerned about the defence.

The defence is appalling and Silva needs to sort this right now.

No excuses.

David Barks
53 Posted 26/07/2018 at 21:59:45
Williams and Jagielka should immediately be removed from the squad. Both were pathetic and have been for a while. Set a tone with the rest of the team, that nice little retirement home Everton has closed its doors. And do so while staring directly at Baines, who has existed on sentiment over substance for years now.
Mike Oates
54 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:00:36
I don't know where to start except I'm basing this on only watching 50 mins due to that awful attempt at broadcasting the game.

What I learnt – well we have only six players at the Premier League level to kick off the season
Pickford, Coleman, Gueye, Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Tosun (even not sure about him). Walcott, Calvert- Lewin and Lookman aren't going to be match fit with all 3 missing 3/4 of the pre-season.

I have no faith at all in any of the 5 centre-halves (Jags, Keane, Holgate, Penningon and Williams) we have, all are error-prone, or too slow. Baines can still attack but is being targeted by opposing forwards and he cant cope at all. Davies, Schneiderlin, Dowell, Klassen are just too slow or not strong enough at all to compete and the two youngsters, Robinson, Baningime are not ready at all to play in the Premier League. Vlasic, if he can decide where best to play him, will I think be a good back-up player.

Upfront, Niasse tonight was poor, very poor, as was Mirallas (who normally is always poor).

I total agree with Stewart Lowe (#53) with his view of those players who can't or won't cut it at all, never mind Top 6, but Top 10 in the Premier League.

We are in a right mess.

John Keating
55 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:01:08
After the Bury game, I said we were shocking and I didn't see much difference from last pre-season. A few commented that they noticed a marked difference and improvement.

So tonight I don't say we were shocking I say we were a disgrace and repeat I see similarities to last pre-season.

The proof will come against Wolves and we wait to see significant improvement.

Steve reckoned we would see Silva's mark very quickly. Yet to see it but fingers crossed it starts at Wolves.

Derek Knox
56 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:01:48
What gets me is, we have overpaid in many cases, millions for players, and been outclassed by players who cost relatively buttons!

I know it's pre-season, but a bit more effort was needed, you can't blame Silva for anything other than his team selection for the first half. The only real stand-out player for the second half was Richarlison, and he had never played with them before.

It is worrying with the season not too far away, I know there were a couple missing, but still cause for concern.

Brian Harrison
57 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:02:46
First let me say I wanted Marco Silva as our manager; his teams have played quick attacking football.

But being a new manager, surely he should have concentrated on getting games into as many players he intends to start against Wolves. I know Sigurdsson and Gueye are just back after a break after the World Cup, but the rest have had a good summer break. So I can't understand playing our 4th serious pre-season game and he is still starting players who haven't been good enough for a couple of seasons. Also what must be even more worrying than the result is the fact we have only scored 1 goal in those 4 serious friendlies.

Any new manager has to get his players believing what he is getting them to do is working; otherwise, they start to question his methods. So another poor defeat tonight doesn't help his cause.

Also again Lookman not included in the squad, a player with an eye for a goal. Surely we are not waiting for Leipzig to meet the asking price? Can we really allow someone with goals in them leave when its abundantly clear this side lacks goals. I would also imagine Bolasie has been told to find another club.

Still no Walcott either – lets hope its a minor injury and he will play in either of the next 2 friendlies.

Silva is no fool and he will know more than anybody that the next 2 friendlies have to have better outcomes, as he doesn't want to start the season with fans starting to doubt another Everton managerial appointment. I genuinely believe he will turn it around – just may take longer than he or I thought, but with our recent history with managers, it needs to start happening sooner than later.

Frank McGregor
58 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:03:08
As I said in my previous post weeks ago, we are bottom three material along with Watford and Huddersfield.

The next season, we will be watching familiar teams like West Brom, Aston Villa, Swansea which won't be too bad.

The present Everton set up is so much like Randy Lerner's Aston Villa.

John Boon
59 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:03:34
Before the blackout at 20+ minutes, it was painful to watch. We have a whole truck of players who should not be anywhere near Premier League level. Hopefully Silva will be now be able to offload the dross.

Video came back on and, while we still have a long way to go, I felt there was a big improvement. Richarlison was really good and seemed at ease right from his introduction. Tosun missed two sitters with his head and we also came close on a few occasions.

I agree with those who feel that we now need to be playing our strongest eleven. Hopefully, the strongest team will include a strong centre-back who can both tackle and move the ball forward. We must sign one.

One huge factor will be the return of Pickford. Stekelenburg is not nearly good enough even as a backup. He makes me nervous and I am not even on the field.

Tony Twist
60 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:05:25
The annoying thing is, what we have just witnessed is nothing new – nothing has changed, a lot of people haven't been earning their money.

I know the DOF is all for youth, well I am not convinced at all that the standard of our footballers that we are producing are good enough and some of the blame for that is the people teaching them. Players coming through seem flawed – even Tom Davies and Jonjoe Kenny who have made the first team.

It is a slow process but there is absolutely no excuse not to be ready for the new season; we have enough to make a decent first team. Get your fingers out, M&M!

Fran Mitchell
61 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:05:32
Any player who is expected to be culled should not be playing in these games.

Sandro, Williams, Mirallas, Besic, Schneiderlin should simply be told to find new clubs.

I'd also say to Niasse, Jagielka, Baines and Pennington to look for new teams.

We would be better served seeing the likes of Denny, Feeney and other U23s than this lot.

Eddie Dunn
62 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:06:06
Williams was hospitalised recently... how is he even on a pitch yet, if his ribs were so bad?
Joe McMahon
63 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:09:24
Trouble is, David, Baines is one of the faves, as he's one of us, according to many.

I'd be one of us for years of £70k a week; this is the kind a sentiment that has plagued the once great Everton for years. It's pathetic!

Steve Ferns
64 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:09:26
John, you've seen glimpses of it. Quickly passing up the pitch with one or two touches. They did that tonight, they did it in the first half v Porto and in the second half against Bury. But it's not happening enough. We also lack a decent passer who can pick out a long pass and get the ball forwards quickly. So clearly, they are working on moving it quickly with shorter passes.

The defence is an absolute joke. The defence hasn't a clue defending set pieces, and it's comedy hour. Silva needs to pull his finger out and get that sorted quickly. Didn't we play zonal marking at set pieces under Koeman and Martinez? I can't remember, but I think we did.

Maybe Silva thinks these lads are just incapable of learning quickly enough and that's why he is asking for new players. That and the fact that the entire defence (Coleman included) were poor. It was panic stations when Stekelenburg got the ball, and maybe it would have been better if Pickford was playing, but that's only a minor point anyway. There's so much to fix, thankfully we have a 2 weeks after Rennes to Wolves, with only Valencia to play.

BTW what happened to the Africans? Aren't we meant to be playing them soon?

Tom McEwan
65 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:13:35
Brian @57, I totally agree with you, mate, except for your last paragraph. His Premier League record belies the fact when you say he is no fool.
Philip Bunting
66 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:14:05
Shameful display from what I did see from that broadcast. Davies looks uninterested to me, lazy and dare I say a little overweight.

What the hell sort of attitude are they showing?? Are they trying to get Silva sacked by October before they themselves get pushed out the door? I don't think it helps Silva saying he needs 5 to 6 players. Looks like a lot of unhappy uninterested players showing a lack of fight or desire to remain at Everton. I think that has certainly shaped a lot of their futures after that.

Silva should select his 25 players from that lot and let the rest train alone while their agents get them a move.

Stekelenburg in goal scares me – never mind the defence!

Gavin Johnson
67 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:16:30
Where was Lookman again?? We could have done with his speed and trickery. I like Sando's workrate but he's not useful to us out on the wing. I'm not sure he could do better than Niasse or Tosun, but I would have liked to have seen him play centrally.

Richarlison looked decent and I'm looking forward to the prospect of seeing him play with Lookman or Walcott. I just hope Lookman's got a genuine knock.

We still have much to do. Besides from Mina and Digne, we still need a mobile striker who can score, and a ball-carrying midfielder.

John Keating
68 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:16:36
Yes, it is only pre-season but losing – like winning – becomes a habit and confidence is a major factor, regardless of the opposition or result.

If we go into the Premier League programme like this, then, come January, it will be Groundhog Day...

Steve Ferns
69 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:17:42
Gavin, Lookman is "injured". As is Holgate, Walcott, Calvert-Lewin, and Baningime.
Sandra Bowen
70 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:18:18
Jim (#45). With you all the way, sir. As much as I'd love the youngsters to all come good, I can't see any of them ending up forging out careers higher than in the Championship.

The good thing about them is that they at least all hold some re-sale value to offset the silly purchases of the deadwood, so we may at least get some money for them over the next couple of years. Again, I hope I'm wrong as I love local lads in the side.

On a positive note, I thought Richarlison looked very good.

Steve Ferns
71 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:19:54
John, we had loads of losing pre-seasons under Moyes, only to turn it on when the season started. I wouldn't worry about the results.

The performances aren't good enough. Sure they will get better, but they need to quickly. I think we definitely need signings in.

David Israel
72 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:20:46
I fail to understand why Silva keeps giving chances to a host of hopeless performers.

Nothing else to add.

Derek Knox
73 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:22:27
Spot on, Philip, it's the lack of effort that really grinds, especially the first half, what little I did see, due to the poor coverage, off and on, freezing etc.

Second half was marginally better; you would expect it to be, because the nucleus will constitute most of the team come the Wolves game. Again, though, there was a lackadaisical approach; Blackburn wanted it more in every department.

Phil Head
74 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:23:47
Why is anyone suprised? The writing's been on the wall since the start of the summer. I don't understand how many clues people need, in order to fathom that this coming season was always gonna be a complete write off.

a) The fact it took us half the summer to bring in a head coach and DOF.

b) The fact Marco Silva must have known this was his next gig since last Christmas, yet on arrival stated he intended to work with the whole squad and see where it might need strengthening.

What we needed to hear was; "I've been extensively watching this squad for 7 months now and, on reporting back to duty, three-quarters of them will be informed that they have no future at this club. Therefore, we will be encouraging bids and if they are forthcoming sooner rather than later, interested clubs may find themselves getting a bargain."

c) The signing of Richarlison. A clear sign of utter frustration towards Marcel Brands and the lack of recruitment.

d) Marco Silva and his backroom staff, their facial expressions and body language during preseason games, have been that of utter despair and disdain.

As a result, with two weeks of the window to go, we still have 13-14 players at this Football Club who are stealing a living and we are still 5-6 players short of being competitive in this league.

I don't know about anyone else, but even the tackiness of the decor in and around the ground, training facilities and especially the matchday kits and training gear annoy the hell out of me... Just quite how can every facet of a huge organisation like this be so poorly managed???

Kieran Kinsella
75 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:26:37
Sandro. What the fuck?!?!
Chris Watts
76 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:29:12
I think people need to get some perspective here. Saying Silva is rubbish is so far off the mark. Even Guardiola had a poor first season until he got rid of old players and brought in the players he wanted.

It's obvious we literally have about 20 players in the squad who are not up to standard and the club needs to rebuild. This is going to take 3 years. We are not 3 players from the title anymore, which seemed the case a few years ago

The only players worth keeping are Pickford, Holgate, Coleman, Gana, Richarlison, Walcott Lookman, and possibly Tosun. I wouldn't care a bit if any of the others left. Sad times...

Bill Gienapp
77 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:30:18
Glass half-full: Richarlison immediately impressed. There are signs of the overall build-up play heading in the right direction (specifically the second half today, and the first half against Porto) – obviously it remains a work-in-progress, but there have been signs.

Tosun, Walcott, Sigurdsson, and Richarlison have the makings of a solid front four – they've yet to play a single minute together. The defense is no doubt a concern... but, if we bring in the left-back and centre-back we're clearly targeting (whether that be Digne and Mina, or whoever), that will be a big help.

Stekelenburg hasn't been particularly dreadful or anything, but I think Pickford's return will provide a boost to the entire squad.

I agree, though, that, at this stage of the pre-season, the preferred starting XI should be settling in together... I'm not sure about the logic of throwing away the first half on the reserves.

Joe McMahon
78 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:32:02
Phil Head, Goodison Park wouldn't be a good advert for anyone. Like our defence, best days where years ago and it's not fit for any Premier League team in 2018.
Jim Bennings
79 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:32:06
What Silva needed to do when he got the job was something similar to what Moyes said at the end of the disastrous 2003-04 campaign:

“There's no way I'll be going with that same group of players next season and there's a good few of them who won't be here next season”.

Moyes's words following a woeful season and publicly shaming the players.

I just hope Silva can be strong enough to not start letting sentiment and loyalties to certain members cloud his judgement on what is, I'll say again, a pretty poor group of players with no chemistry and no real passion for the shirt.

Craig Walker
80 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:32:10
I had a bad feeling about Silva’s appointment and nothing’s changed my view. That’s the problem. Nothing’s changed. Still players who aren’t good enough for Everton and we’re wasting a hell of a lot of money on potential. Very concerned!
Gavin Johnson
81 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:33:23

Fingers crossed Lookman does have a genuine injury and it isn't because he's been rested so he doesn't get injured before a transfer to Leipzig.

Tom McEwan
82 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:33:57
Steve @64, I know I keep getting at yer mate (and I will continue to do so until Silva proves you right and me wrong) but, genuine question, given your recent thread about possibly not buying anyone: What is your honest take on Silva, his tactics and motivation so far?

Given that we have only brought one player in so far, do you now revise your opinion of his motivational skills with regards to the 'talent' already within the squad, or do you think you may have overestimated both his skills and the current squad?

Also, given the fact that, prior to his appointment, you consistently defended the very poor latter part of his tenure at Watford with the assertion that our interest and Watford's intransigence in not allowing him to speak to us, was the reason for Watford's downturn in results, do you not think that he has had more than ample time since his sacking to have already formed a more than usually informed opinion of the squad he has taken charge of?

Steve Ferns
83 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:35:07
He has to give people a chance, Bill. These are the games where you do experiment. We saw against the better opposition in Lille and Porto that he had the same XI on the pitch for most of the game. He's done massive changes at HT in each of the games against the lower opposition.

Rennes is a decent side and obviously Valencia would be a strong test at the best of times. Expect his best side (whatever the hell that is) to play in both games with no major changes at half-time.

And yes, Bill, beat Wolves on the opening day and everyone forgets pre-season.

Paul Mackay
84 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:36:27
Let's all calm down and start making judgements after a few months of competitive football, not off the back of a few pre-season games and multiple changes.
Chris Watts
85 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:40:13
ps: Of course he's having a look at the players in the club. When in any job, would you come in and just get rid of people without seeing them perform?

Also, he said he wants to give the players a clean slate. They are hanging themselves with their own rope with these dreadful performances.

He could get rid of 15-20 and say he's given them a chance – I don't blame silva for this. If we look as bad this time next year, then maybe...

Tom McEwan
86 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:44:19
Chris Watts @76,

Man City finished 3rd in Guardiola's first season and – given his 'previous' at other clubs – with all due respect, you cannot possibly compare the two.

Steve Ferns
87 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:46:38
Tom, I can't comment on his motivational skills. He's very deadpan when talking and is nothing like, say, Klopp. He lacks that Charisma and so I don't think he's Mr Motivator.

He's a top coach. I have no doubt about that. But coaching takes time. It doesn't happen immediately. When he went into Hull he had 12 players. He had to work with all 12 and give them his time. Here he's got 38, it's obviously 3 times as much and therefore a lot harder. That's why he's saying he wants 25. That's a good number for him to work with.

And no I don't think I've over-estimated his skills. The signs are there for what he can do, and it will just "click" and start working. Some of the movement and the passing was good. We went straight through Blackburn a few times. And Porto. And even the second XI against Lille. It's just happening in bursts. Then the payers keep reverting to type and knocking it around slowly and back to the keeper. They clearly lack confidence.

As for having assessed the squad beforehand. He certainly can't say he's done so. Read elsewhere on this site that Watford are still after us for tapping him up.

Also, it was said in the Echo (paper or podcast) that we decided on Silva late, and not as early as we would have liked us to. Fonseca definitely was either interviewed or spoken to, according to Dave Prentice. Therefore, Silva hardly had the tapes of all the games, so it appears that he's had a lot less time to prepare than we might have hoped.

Then, what about if Mirallas, for example has been on fire in training? He's certainly showed his best in early pre-season. Silva has to take a look at that, he can't just ignore it and put him in the U23s. Mirallas is on massive wages and no one will want him after the Olympiacos fiasco.

He's telling us the squad is too big, and we're not getting rid of people as we would want to. Some bad news I saw from squad numbers:
10: Sigurdsson – shows we won't be signing a 10 if we've not kept it open;
18: Schneiderlin – shows we intend to keep him.
Don't know if anyone else spotted any other changes.

Sam Hoare
88 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:48:23
Seems a bit of overreaction on here. Lots of people saying we've only got 4 players fit for the Premier League or such stuff. This same squad (minus Richarlison) came 8th last season. Yes, it was poor fare but still. Let's not get out the relegation vibes yet.

It's preseason; the players are adapting to a new man and new style. The manager is dealing with a totally unbalanced squad who've no idea what to do after 3 different managers last season. There'll be more players coming in and more players leaving.

I totally expect Wolves to beat us on opening day. They have a settled team and a manager on a high after bossing the Championship last season. I totally expect it to be a painful season at times with us limping into the top ten or so. This team needs major overhaul and has done for about 2 years, if not longer. It's a long-term process. I have faith.

Paul Birmingham
89 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:49:01
The only solace I can take from this very piss-poor pre-season is that surely the exit visas are stamped and signed, but effectively you'd say we don't have a squad, so we will barely be able to muster a team. It kills me to see no fight, care, passion, or respect for the club...

Words can't express the frustration at the seemingly perpetual fall from grace and decline of Everton FC. I, we, live in hope... but another pre-season suggests, on the park, it is gonna be very tough. I can't help but think that this season amongst so many, could really bring home reality. The abyss is real and killing the club.

As it stands, the Bramley-Moore Dock project will be on the distant radar. Money and success is a recipe for good and bad fortune... but, for EFC, and fans of a certain age, who've seen success at the club... but, in view that all fans of the last 30 years expect full conviction, on the park, in the board room, with sponsors etc — that is what is needed.

Trust and hope and belief — life's most vital requirements, with health and family, in my view, are needing a massive top-up at Goodison Park and Finch Farm.

M&M, I believe, have a plan, but time is, as ever, reality — 23 years and counting is the monument that needs breaking and a new era to begin.

We all hope against hope... but tonight was Groundhog Day again, and another garbage showing.

Now for Rennes...

David Israel
90 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:49:50
Steve (#83), 'And yes, Bill, beat Wolves on the opening day and everyone forgets pre-season.'

If only. We'll probably be facing a defensively-packed team, even playing at home, and will find it hard to break through. We could also be shipping one or two on the break. I hope I'm wrong, obviously.

Phil Head
91 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:51:41
Chris (#76), I don't think anyone's saying Silva's rubbish; I only stated that he's made his first mistake by not doing his homework before taking a job.

Unfortunately, in the cutthroat world of Premier League football, you can't afford to waste a transfer window, whether that be buying or selling. I'm personally against against the idea of pursuing your 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice signings if you can't get your No 1 targets; that I believe, is how we got ourselves in this mess in the first place.

However, you do have to sell the assets you have, that haven't produced, that are on big wages, whilst they still have transfer value and are under long contracts. Because, the longer you leave it, the less likely you're gonna get anything at all.

ps: I agree almost completely with your list of retainees, minus Holgate I'd say, and I still wouldn't want all of those above mentioned in the starting 11.

Steve Ferns
92 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:53:19
David, I thought Nuno Santo played attacking football? Moutinho and Neves won't be sat back defending. I expect them to be a possession based team playing like Martinez's Everton.

Whilst Silva will have us sat on the break, hopefully Walcott is fit and then you'll see a proper Silva side trying to hit Richarlison and Walcott quickly on the break.

Michael Lynch
93 Posted 26/07/2018 at 22:53:57
Two things:

Firstly, everyone who was giving shite to Allardyce for saying that he was doing the best he could with the squad he inherited should have the good grace to admit he wasn't fucking lying. Sure, I'm glad the big man is gone, he was poison, but he wasn't wrong about how shite the squad was.

Secondly, Richarlison is a bargain at £35-£40m. Head and shoulders above any of our other players tonight. He and Walcott are the best we have. We need five or six more of their calibre; otherwise, it's going to be a miserable season.

Jim Bennings
94 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:00:24
A lot of people questioning Silva but not enough questioning these tossers that pose as Premier League footballers and have stolen a living at our once proud club .

Where's the anger, the passion, the pride in this crop of players?

Moyes's squads of 2004 right through to 2009 had character and pride in the shirt, people like Carsley, Cahill, Stubbs, Osman and Hibbert would run through walls.

Even players who left us to enhance careers gave everything on the pitch in a blue shirt during their time here, players like Arteta and Pienaar or Gravesen, they “got” what it meant to play for Everton.

Where is that in this squad now?

Sure they talk a good game but deliver spineless half-arsed shit too often and it's over too long a time now to be acceptable anymore.

Steavey Buckley
95 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:02:39
The situation with Everton is very dire: they don't have a defence, midfield or attack. Other than that, nothing has changed since last season.
Chris Watts
96 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:03:40
Tom, I'm sorry but Guardiola inherited a completely different squad to ours. They had won the title a couple of seasons beforehand.

Finishing 3rd was probably what was expected. However, after one year, he got rid of a load of older players and brought in younger exciting ones.

It looks like Silva is doing that.. he looked thoroughly unimpressed in the few minutes I could see from the stream tonight...

Rian Magee
97 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:03:45
Didn't see tonights game but, by all accounts, it sounds almost like a reverse of the Porto match.

Honestly, I can't say I'm overly concerned as I struggle to recall a pre-season that filled me with any serious amount of optimism. It's about fitness, trying things out, getting an in-depth look at players and how they react (or not) to specific instructions, formations and tactics. I'll be concerned if the performances during pre-season are what's being offered 4 or 5 games into the season proper; but not yet.

I can't wrap my head around those slating Silva aready. For fuck's sake, he's been here no length of time. It's all well and good saying he should have done this, that or the other, when he knew he was getting the job but you can only really learn by doing. He could watch and study all the clips he wanted but watching players under the instruction of a different manager and system doesn't provide much insight into how they'll react to your own methods.

I'm happy to see that he's given the fringe players more than a fair crack. He's being fair. It would be rash (considering he hasn't been privvy to watching a lot of these overpaid thieves shit themselves, week-in & week-out, like we have) to give them 45 minutes then say, "Nope; there's the door!" Not to mention, he'd be utterly crucified by some fans for not giving blues a chance.

As I say, he's been more than fair and I think it's safe to say from his expression on the touchline, he now knows and sees the problems that we've endured for too long. Of course, I'd love to see the starting XI starting to get more time together, but pre-season so far has been a crucial exercise in study and observation. More time to do so would have been ideal, but it is what it is.

From what I've seen, I agree with most: Pickford, Coleman (100% captain), Gana, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, Richarlison (haven't seen him for us yet but ill take a pretty safe punt), and possibly Lookman (if he stays), are the only ones I'd consider as Premier League starters; which I would say is a decent spine to build around.

Holgate, Besic and Mirallas (if he could keep his dummy in his mouth) are decent back-up, but the rest need shipped out or forced into community service for crimes against football. They're either past it or simply care only about their disgusting wages and nothing for the shirt.

The young lads need loans (Championship, I'd say), blues or not. Being a blue isn't a golden ticket to being of the quality or calibre we need neither is the ability to run, which as far as I can tell, all a good few, Davies, Klaassen, and Sandro on particular offer. Harsh? Yes. Do I like saying it? No. Is it the truth..? unfortunately, yes – absolutely.

You can guarantee Silva is not happy with what he's witnessed from this bloated, disjointed squad. I would be expecting (and hoping) for some sweeping changes in on-field personnel before the season kicks off. Although we all have to prepare for the fact that this rebuilding job is not going to happen over one season. If we're being realistic, it will be more like 3+ years to really start going places. NSNO

Stewart Lowe
98 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:04:55
What we have to realise here, is that most Everton players haven't cared or had given up on Everton since midway through Martinez's 2nd year in charge, and can only assume that it was this moment when they began to not buy into what Martinez was trying to do, just like us fans did too.

Another 18 months with Martinez from this moment, as well as the Koeman 18-24 months, and the damage had set in. Players stopped playing for Martinez, as they did with Koeman also. Koeman's and Martinez's styles of football were never based on pace, with Martinez's based on slow paced ball retention.

It's going to be very hard to change the mentality of this squad after not wanting to play for past manager's for so so long. It's obvious that Everton and Silva wanted each other long before Allardyce got sacked, so why wasn't he watching every game? Why wasn't he requesting DVD's of the players, to speed up his selection process?

Silva then turns up at Everton on the official day of pre-season, instead of demanding they come in 2 weeks earlier than they did. That would have been a better time to run the rule over the players that didn't go to the World Cup. Players get paid 12 months a year, not just 9.

He should have already known what his first 11 was, and then playing two friendlies at the same time, so that he can run the rule over players that might change his mind and force themselves into his first 11.

David Israel
99 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:05:42
Steve, you may be right about our set-up for that match, but Nuno E Santo, although indeed a fan of possession-based football, or so I hear, has a defensive, cautious, leaning. That's what I heard from friends both in Spain and Portugal. His teams are supposed to defend well, in contrast to the Martinez Everton side.

Neves, by the way, started out as a defensive midfielder, so he can perfectly slot into a defensive set-up. Plus, this is a huge game for Wolves, their first one back up.

Tom McEwan
100 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:06:29
Fair doos, Steve @87, but aren't a coach's or manager's motivational skills part of their coaching technique? After all, you can explain until you are blue in the face where and what you want a player to do but, if you cannot inspire and explain why you want them to do it, you are flogging a dead horse.

In other words, if a player is not motivated to see your 'vision', then he ain't gonna be onboard. So I class both motivation and coaching as one and the same.

The comparison with Hull I do not accept. If you compare his record (games in charge) and regardless of squad size with Mike Phelan's, they are not vastly different and therefore the hype surrounding him 'not having enough time' to save them pales into insignificance.

Finally, he was sacked by Watford in January so has had plenty of unofficial time to assess all things Everton. The Fonseca thing is just rumour. I agree about the Mirallas theory and any others who have been 'on fire' in training but matches, friendly or otherwise, are proving him wrong.

A point, which you may or not remember, me berating you about before his appointment, that training is one thing; results in a match are a totally different kettle of fish...

Steve Ferns
101 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:08:44
David, in his one season at Porto, they played a very expansive style. Very possession based. As you would expect from clearly the best side in the division. I couldn't comment on his time in Spain, and I only saw Wolves play twice.
Paul Birmingham
102 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:09:10
Wisdom and Miracles are needed. Walcott has been off all pre-season, so can we rely on him at all, realistically for this campaign 2018-19? I'm not convinced.

Some very tough days ahead, mentally and on the Park, training and on match days.

As for many years, EFC 1st team doesn't have any wow or fear factor, as a team for any opposition.

Let's give M&M a fair chance; Rennes will be a different match!

This season, my big hopes: I'm hoping to beat the RS, well, and Man Utd and Chelsea, but I know I'm looking at a mirage! Too much sun!

One day..

Christy Ring
103 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:09:27
At least Silva now knows the deadwood: Williams shouldn't even get a game; Jag and Baines are past it; Besic championship player; Ramirez needs to go back to Spain; Tosun is on his own up top; and Niasse is not good enough.

We badly need a playmaker in midfield, a left-sided centre-back, left-back and striker in the next 2 weeks.

Michael Lynch
104 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:17:56
Got to tip my hat to Blackburn though, they murdered us. Yeah, pre-season friendly and all that, but they were very good. They scented blood early on and didn't let up. Having said that, they probably won't have an easier match all season.
Steve Ferns
105 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:18:41
Tom are you saying Silva's record and Phelan's record at Hull was more or less the same?

As for Motivational and Coaching, they are often different. Alex Ferguson was not a top coach. He was possibly the best motivator British football has ever seen, but coaching was not his forte. But he knew how to get good coaches in, and when to move them on and get new coaches in to freshen things up. Again, tactics were not Ferguson's thing and he got in someone else to do that.

Silva doesn't need to be able to deliver great speeches. He can get someone else to do so if needed. He does a lot of work that you may class as motivational in one-on-one. The esteem that virtually every player he has ever coached hold him in, does show that he has more than sufficient motivational skills to get his message across.

The Fonseca thing may be a rumour, but Prentice knows what's going on inside Everton and he said Fonseca was interviewed / spoken to, I'm intended to believe that happened.

Mirallas scored 5 against the Austrian pub side, and looked one of the better players against Bury, he wasn't bad against Lille, he had good moments against Porto, and it was only tonight where he was poor. So I think he's translated that pre-season training form into matches. The thing is we know what happens next with Mirallas. The fact that Silva signed Richarlison shows us that Mirallas hasn't really won Silva over anyway.

Chris Watts
106 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:19:22
Sorry one final point. Silva and Brands are clearly looking for new players and the current lot most know their time is up. Therefore they probably don't feel part of the future of the club. Pushed out even.

Until we see who Silva considers his best team with a few high-quality new players, it is impossible to tell. What is possible to conclude is that Everton have undertaken the worst recruitment campaign in Premier League history over the last 3 years. Actually, QPR in 2014 might be comparable but you get the point

Mike Allison
107 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:20:24
Oh shit we’ve lost a pre-season friendly with our second string team.

Silva out.

Oh hang on, it was a pre-season friendly.

A pre-season friendly.
A pre-season friendly.
A pre-season friendly.
A pre-season friendly.
A pre-season friendly.
A pre-season friendly.

Alan Templeton
108 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:25:27
Well, that was brutal. Pre-season football at its finest! Many of these players will not see playing time. However, we do need to get on with culling the roster and adding upgraded talent.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
109 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:26:22
Scenario 1 - Marco, I know you have been sacked and we are being accused of tapping you up, but while you are perhaps being paid by Watford or at least sueing them, and I know we have not agreed a contract with you and we will not want it to be public as it might go badly on any Premier League investigation, can you act as though you will be our manager, but just keep it a secret. Oh, and if we can get someone better as manager, we may offer them a contract and so you will have spent all this time looking at our players and it has been a complete waste of time because we will never be able to pay you anything.

Scenario 2 - Marco, sorry about your sacking. When the season is over and we decide on a new manager, we will let you know how to apply. Enjoy the garden in the meantime.

And we all believe it should be Scenario 1. Right bunch of illegal operators you are. He had no guarantee of getting the job, and if he did, that was the only evidence that Watford needed. So spending 5 months assuming he was getting the Everton job was not an option.

Tony Twist
110 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:29:30
Yes, it was a friendly; no excuse. Yes, I suspect that everyone was run ragged in training before the match to try and get them to match fitness, no excuse.

No excuse for that performance and Silva needs to realise that most of these players have had poor seasons before and their confidence is soo fragile. Wins will only do for the remaining friendlies and away day against Wolves.

Tom Bowers
111 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:34:12
Just another nothing game and we all know this will be a far cry from the starting eleven at Wolves.

I know, I know, we would like to see a win in some of these games but the result is not important as much as getting all the players in tip-top shape.

They still have Rennes and Valencia to deal with and I am sure by the end of it all Silva will know who he doesn't want.

The quicker he settles on his number one starting eleven the better.

He must know by now that Mirallas and Sandro just don't cut it.

Steve Ferns
112 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:35:32
Phil I think it was more option 3.

Marco, we are still really interested in giving you the job. We will be getting rid of Sam Allardyce unless he gets 7th and wins the fans over. Rest assured they hate him, and so we will speak to you in the summer, we hope you are available.

And I have no doubt that when Marco interviewed for the job, he will have watched tape (even if it's only the extended highlights on the official site) at length. He's meticulous in his planning, and he really impressed them in his interview (again according to Dave Prentice). I guess that he impressed them by explaining things to them from his observations of the side, and suggestions about how he can fix things. Silva is said to be one of those guys who watches a lot of tape.

Whilst Koeman clocked off at 4:00pm and went down the golf course, and forgot about Everton, Silva is one of those coaches were it's his entire life. So he'll be working non-stop, meaning watching tape at home, both on us and the opposition.

Arild Andersen
113 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:42:40
I agree with you, Jim (#94) – where is the player's pride? Most looked like they couldn't be bothered. I really hope that Silva uses his starting XI in the next matches.

I thought there were positivities against Lille and especially Porto, but this was a huge step backwards. So, my take:

Goalkeeper – if Pickford gets injured, we are in big trouble. Stekelenburg gives no confidence whatsoever, strange Hewelt hasn't got any minutes.

Defence is a big concern, we leak easy goals and it's alarming that Jagielka is still our best centre-back. New faces needed.

In midfield, I agree with those here who are losing faith in Davies. Must say Connolly looked better in The Algarve, I think he deserves more chances.

And attack – well, at the moment, it's hard to imagine where the goals should come from. We have scored 22 against Austrian amateurs and 1 against Bury, that is simply not good enough. We need both creativity and one tall strong player up front.

Lots of work to do.

Rob Dolby
114 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:42:45
Pre-season isn't necessarily an indicator of what lies ahead... though, in our case, it is showing our new manager the old failings.

We already knew that we need to score goals as we haven't replaced Lukaku. We have a creaking defence and a midfield that doesn't protect the back four enough or score enough goals.

Giving game time to Sandro, Williams, Mirallas, Klaassen, Schneiderlin, Martina, Pennington, Dowell, and Vlasic is only going to prove what we already know.

Tom Dodds
115 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:48:07
If you were to use an analogy in terms of a sewerage system, with our squad depth I would say we have a "Fatberg" on our hands. A real lumpen one.

But don't you all be worrying guys, if it all slams then slides down the wall (or table), Blue Billy Liar will cheer us all up by toasting himself to another 20 more continuous years of parasitic procrastination.

Jack Convery
116 Posted 26/07/2018 at 23:59:28
If you believe Silva was brought in to get us into the top six this season – think again. The issue is keeping us out of the bottom six as this season is going to be a real fight to stay in the Premier League.

Too much money invested by most clubs who don't want to end up like Villa, shedding players to cut the wage bill and having to buy 2nd raters in their place and a long stay in the Championship. Silva will need at least 3 if not 4 transfer windows to sort this lot out.

There is something seriously wrong with this squad of players and the way things are being run at the club. Hence Lookman wants out. Moshiri has brought in M and M and sorted the board and the admin jobs out. Now it's the squad that needs sorting out and that's going to take a couple of seasons at least.

We can't sell them all, all in one window (I wish we could), so it's getting better players in – Walcott, Tosun and Richarlison are the beginning. Only Pickford measured up to expectation from last summers splurge. That's 4...

Coleman is the only player we have that a team in the top 6 might covet – that's 5.

Gueye and Sigurdsson just make it for me- that's 7.

So, 4 more to go – plus back-ups of course. A lot of work to be done. I'm expecting nothing from the Wolves game. It's our home form that will decide our fate in 2018-19 – so we need to get behind whatever 11 he puts out. I would have included Lookman as one of the back-ups but he's on his way by the looks of it and that will be a major mistake.

Tom McEwan
117 Posted 26/07/2018 at 00:09:51
Steve, according to Wikipedia, Phelan's record at Hull was Pld 24 W6 D5 L13. Silva's record was Pld 22 W8 D3 L11. So yes I am saying their records are more or less the same.

If you add in his record at Watford Pld 26 W8 D5 L13, given a 5 to 10% win ratio difference, then they are remarkably the same.

With regards to motivation, you seem to be wrapped up with differentiating between 'coaching' and 'speeches'. A good coach is a good communicator, simple as. You can have all the fancy 'tactics' you want but if you cannot communicate your ideas to the players you might as well be pissing in the wind.

You use Ferguson (regardless of his trophy haul) as an example of the difference between a good coach and a good motivator but I should remind you that during his long period of success and successive squad building he employed numerous coaches who may have had an influence on the squad but by necessity must have 'bought in' to his 'philosophy' of the correct way of 'doing things'.

After saying all that, I am reminded of the late Brian Clough and the late Bob Paisley who when asked the secret of their success, the former replied, (and I am paraphrasing here) 'It's simple really, when we haven't got the ball we try and get the ball thereby stopping the opposition from scoring a goal and when we have the ball we try and score a goal'. The latter replied, 'pass and move'.

This is why I have a problem with people like you, Steve; whilst I respect your right to voice your opinion, you totally over complicate things, you ignore facts, and you make out losers are winners.

It's symptomatic of all aspects of our society in general these days, there has even been a word, 'post-truth' accepted into the Oxford English Dictionary.

Post-truth is defined as, 'Relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief'.

As an old arse, I prefer the old saying, "Let's call a spade, a spade."

Mike Gaynes
118 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:16:20
According to the Echo, Lookman has a thigh strain.

Also according to the Echo, Leipzig is prepared to go to £25m to get him.

Mike Gaynes
119 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:18:26
Steve #112, and your thoughts on Robinson now?

Sharpe thought he was the best of a bad lot in the first half today.

John Keating
120 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:18:36
Everton made their intensions known last season regarding wanting Silva. He and his agent without doubt had been approached. To think that Silva did not know the final outcome after Sam's appointment is naïve at the extreme. Everyone and his dog knew Sam's remit and longevity.

If Silva had not kept tabs on everything Everton after his dismissal from Watford, then he is beyond contempt. He has to have known what we all know regarding the players at our disposal.

Pre-season should be a time of getting the players fit, understanding tactics and style, and not wasting time.

If he doesn't know who needs shifting, then he needs shifting.

Laurie Hartley
121 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:31:04
I haven't seen the videos – my question is: Does anyone have a comment on their apparent level of fitness?
Peter Cummings
122 Posted 26/07/2018 at 00:37:34
I think we can write off this season now; nothing has changed to give us hope that things will get better. Goals will, yet again, be hard to come by; no-one of note will be interested in playing for us.

And I can't honestly see Silva turning these sow's ears into silk purses anytime soon... His credentials with Watford were hardly mind-boggling... in fact, he could turn out to be another non-event in our lengthy list of managerial 'no-hopers'.

Ed Prytherch
123 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:43:31
Many of our second rate players are getting game time to keep them in the shop window. There can be no other reason.

I thought that Keane had a decent game and he is one of the few who did themselves any good. Richarlison was certainly fired up and Vlasic produced more in 12 minutes than Sandro did in 78.

Tom McEwan
124 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:43:52
Phil @109 'O sancta virginitas simplicitasque' 'Such pious maidenly innocence'
Mike Gaynes
125 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:43:59
John #120, for cripes sake "keeping tabs" is not the same thing as actually seeing the players in practice, in games, in the changing room.

"What we all know regarding the players at his disposal" is what we see on TV or from row EE, and it's not nearly enough for a professional manager to make decisions on a player's career or his role (or lack thereof) in the side.

And I sure as hell wouldn't want him choosing who to "shift" based on what he saw on TV of a demoralized side following the orders of that giant pile of shite we had fouling the touchline last spring.

You're welcome to your opinion of what preseason is for, but this man was hired to do the job his way. Let him do it.

Barry Williams
126 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:47:04
So, let me get this straight. People are questioning Silva on the strength of some pre-season games. Games in which we haven't had our 3 World Cup players available until today, and just for a half; games in which players like Walcott haven't been available and a pre-season that is still ongoing.

I care not what happens in pre-season, what happens in the season is what matters. We were poor today, no doubt, but it is pre-season folks, new manager, new ideas, new staff and a bunch of players that have failed to live up to expectation under 3 or 4 managers. He has one signing in the side... One!!!! And that guy has played a half only! How quickly do people expect the players to change?

I have no idea whether Silva is the right manager for us, I have reservations, but let's be reasonable here folks! Also, we no not whether he was aware or fully aware that he'd take over Everton. There may have been other clubs interested in him, we do not know. The media is not the be all and end all of what actually goes on in football and it feeds fans with a lot more bs than facts.

Let's say that Silva was bang on guaranteed the Everton job months ago with no other interest in him from other clubs and Everton not exploring any other possibilities also. Let's say he watched the Everton games and studied tapes. So, even with this, do we not expect him to give all a chance to see how they'd operate in a different system and set up?

If he'd just chosen a perceived first team people would rightly be asking why he isn't giving very expensive fringe players and promising youths a chance. Let's see what the rest of pre-season brings before condemning a man who has been here a matter of weeks in a world cup year and hasn't even had the luxury of a near fully fit squad to choose from!

Plus, even if he watched all the Everton games, how could he run the rule over players like Klassen and Vlasic if they never played? How could he assess Lookman and Sandro as they were playing in a very different situation to what they'd be getting in the Premier League? For that matter, Besic and Dowell too! That's 6 players right there!

Ed Prytherch
127 Posted 27/07/2018 at 00:48:02
What is going on with the feeds over there? I googled "free soccer feeds", clicked on a link and watched the game with a foreign commentary, maybe Portuguese. It beats listening to Martin Tyler.
Paul Birmingham
128 Posted 27/07/2018 at 01:04:06
It seems and feels like “Ground Hog Day, year 23, and churning, record, crap”.

The new club structure must be given time and patience, this season.

It does beggars belief, in terms of lessons learnt, of past failed campaigns, in the friendlies, and against, the real teams, how the performances of EFC, has been.

New Boss and DoF, you'd think, the players, would all give, blood, sweat and tears, for the Everton shirt.

Scary, and almost a senses of Witchcraft... but seriously, feckin disappointing, all in all, so far, this pre-season.

I've no expectation, and seeing how, it feels, it's gonna be rank, bar a miracle.

C'est La Vie...

Sean McCarthy
129 Posted 27/07/2018 at 01:05:48
When going into a new season and your central strikers are Niasse, Sandro and Tosun then you know your in the shit up to your elbows!! None of these would be anywhere near a team with aspirations of forcing their way into the Top 6 and beyond. To claim otherwise is to view the world with royal blue tinted glasses. Wages alone for those 3 must exceed a QUARTER OF A MILLION POUNDS EVERY WEEK!!! Unbelievable!!

Someone said Sandro is on £120k pw. If that is true then it's surely one of the worst deals in premier league history let alone Everton's. On those wages hes going nowhere as there can't be another club stupid enough to pay him anything like that!!

Niasse might have a lovely happy smiley face but he won't make a decent footballer while he's got a hole in his arse!!

Tosun I grant you is still very much "early days" but from what he's shown so far I'm far from convinced.

If any one of these 3 were in the RS squad we'd be pissing our pants laughing at them. instead all 3 are in our squad and it's definitely no laughing matter.

And that's before we talk about the shocking defence and invisible midfield!!

James Flynn
130 Posted 27/07/2018 at 01:06:32
My view of the game:

1. I can see why the Gaffer keeps playing Sandro. He moves the ball with skill, in a hurry, and to the teammate he should. From these few games, it also appears he's understood he has to put in the dirty work in the English game. I like him.

2. Anyone not seeing the difference in skill between Lookman and Richarlison needs their eyes examined.

3. Keane does turn slow. Not good. But he's pretty good at everything else you want from a CB.

4. Schneiderlin really, genuinely has no worth on the pitch. I'm not making fun of him. I'm not. And will go on a bit about him.

He puts on his kit, goes out onto the pitch, referee blows the whistle to start the game, 90 minutes later blows his whistle to stop it, and who remembers what Morgan contributed? He's just there because of a contractual requirement to do so. In an odd way, it's impressive!

I'm of the believe that, all the problems we have need addressing, getting this stiff off the books is Necessity #1. We ate some of Klaassen's contract to move him on? Small beer to eating whatever we have to to rid our Club of this worthless pay-check thief.

5. Please M&M, we need that CB and that LB.

6. See 4 above.

7. Season's about to start, COYBs!

Stephen Williams
131 Posted 27/07/2018 at 01:23:11
Let's not over dress this:

We were comprehensively beaten in both halves by (last season) a third division team both in the first half (when we played our reserve team) and in the second half (when we played arguably our first team). After a few weeks training including intensive abroad we should see some progress.

If anyone thinks that's remotely good enough then they shouldn't be anywhere near Everton or football generally.

I had high hopes that Marco would get us restructured, but the evidence so far is that he is failing miserably. Even our reserves should easily dispatch Blackburn. To see us so easily get dismantled by a shit team, even in a friendly, hurts and doesn't provide any hope for an improved season.

I feel that SF (and the board) sold us a pup - not that that should be new to us.

I'm embarrassed by that performance. The point to the future is: Is any of the management team?

Gavin Johnson
132 Posted 27/07/2018 at 01:37:49
James #130

I agree with your assessment on Sandro. He does pass the ball quickly, and I've been encouraged by his graft in recent performances. That all said, I'm not sure he has a role in this side unless he gets his goal scoring form back and can offer us something else when played upfront. We are crying out for a decent striker. I'm a fan of Tosun and think he's a very good striker and much better than Niasse but he really needs someone to play off him.

Hopefully we'll sign Mina and Digne, but I don't see us bringing in a striker and midfielder which are the other problem positions. I think there's a good chance we'll bring in a striker or midfielder but I'm really not sure which one we need more?!

Nicholas Ryan
133 Posted 27/07/2018 at 02:51:38
Usually, it takes me about 30 Premier League games before I post: "Doomed, Mr. Mannering, Doomed!" The fact that I'm doing it before the season has started, is somewhat worrying!

But seriously, folks: Things can only get better!

David Ellis
134 Posted 27/07/2018 at 03:32:33
Silva may or may not turn out great – but I don't think there's much point pretending we know the answer yet; the season hasn't even started. We'll know in 18 months.

One of the problems is the size of the squad and the need to give them all an opportunity when it doesn't matter – ie, pre-season. This is not Silva's fault and the idea he could have assessed these players whilst not working for us is fanciful nonsense. I'm sure he'll have done homework but you have to watch football live to see a player's full role.

I'm stunned by the money we are still throwing around on new signings (and reported new signings). Hopefully this won't simply make the problems worse!

Kieran Kinsella
135 Posted 27/07/2018 at 04:03:02
Question: does anyone think Rooney, Fumes Mori and Lennon were worse than Sandro, Williams and Mirallas?
Michael Kenrick
136 Posted 27/07/2018 at 04:05:50
Stephen Williams (#131),

Who is SF?

Christine Foster
137 Posted 27/07/2018 at 04:29:09
My take on this is that there is a major overhaul required after the Koeman era. Yes, we probably do need to offload 20 of the squad but it's not going to happen in one fell swoop as many seem to expect.

Silva has to decide his core and others that will do for now because the rest aren't good enough – either on an individual basis or a tactical one.

All we are really seeing at the moment is who he can keep for now and get the best out of whilst he fashions a team?

If you listened to what he said about needing 5 or 6 players and culling the squad to 25, that means half the playing staff are on their way out and that means he knows who are the definites, the probables, and the no-chances... By now, he will know his best 11 and most of the probables but it's got to gel – and quick.

You can bet your boots too that a few players know they won't make the cut and their attitude is reflected in their commitment – or lack of it.

A sharp knife is required and we need to cut the malaise out and move on as quickly as possible.

John Boon
138 Posted 27/07/2018 at 04:49:36
Paul Mackay (#84). At this time of the pre-season, that is the most sensible and realistic approach. As many others, I am really not impressed by what I have seen but it is far too early to attack a new manager who must give every player a reasonable chance to show what he has to offer. I am sure he knows by now that many of the players are far below the required standard. It is what he does with the rest that counts. I still have faith.
David Barks
139 Posted 27/07/2018 at 05:15:15
Haven’t seen a first team lineup yet. I honestly think he’s giving those older generation and second string players enough time to show to everyone why they have no place in his team, yet he can prove he gave them a chance. I think it’s obvious given the negotiations we are publicly in that he and Brands want a new defense.

Walcott, Richarlison and Gilfy don’t worry me at all. What does worry me is how awful Tosun has looked, but at the same time that’s how strikers can go. Hot and cold. Jagielka and Williams should not see another minute in an Everton shirt, but for different reasons. Jagielka has his solid years but is past it now, not capable at this level. Williams has just been awful. I think we can bet on Holgate being in defense alongside whichever CD we sign. Keane will be third choice.

Schneiderlin has actually been far more active so far. He’s taking the ball and actually driving forward and past defenders. What a concept!! I just have no what Davies brings to the team and can’t figure out what Gana offers alongside Schneiderlin.

I can see he’s wanting the players to assert themselves and attack. Chances have come and players are getting forward, getting into dangerous positions. The strikers have been very wasteful and players tend to make the extra pass instead of just being free in attack. And Baines continues to be one of the chief offenders in that department.

Lots of work to do, but I think there is a method to the madness in the team selections so far. Many players will be gone, a few more will come in. But it’s the old guard that needs to be removed most of all. That acceptance of losing needs to be ripped out of the team once and for all.

John Pierce
140 Posted 27/07/2018 at 06:04:55
Apart from Everton stealing $5.19 for the alleged stream, it would seem we are set for zonal marking under Marco Silva. Of all the whooey that was tonight's attempt at footy, the zonal crap was awful.

Whilst I can have always doubted the merits of zonal, akin to a bunch of statues at Crosby, asking two ardent man-markers in Williams and Jagielka to adapt this late in their careers is nonsense.

Despite the steamy pile of poo that it was through the snowstorm and time machine that was my stream, I could just about make out a style of play.

Everton and streaming are like Allardyce and football, best kept apart.

Dermot Byrne
142 Posted 27/07/2018 at 06:47:47
When Marco was appointed there was a piece by Lyndon about patience. It was one of the most united threads you would see on TW. We nearly all agreed patience was needed.

Well maybe Lyndon should have defined patience.

To some it appears to stretch to a couple of friendlies before we start making hysterical predictions and calling each other naïve apologists or doom mongers.

Get a grip, have just a little bit of emotional discipline and realise that changing a very shit team (and club) takes a little longer than a few weeks after a World Cup.

Of course that was crap last night. With those players, it is bound to be crap. Years of mismanagement, payment for producing shit week after week, not caring, scared of own shadows. The list goes on.

You think when Brands talks to a prospect, they think their dreams have come true? I suspect many wonder: Is this just a well-paid career graveyard?

"And if ya know ya history"? Well, of course, most don't or really care about what this "old" club did before decimal currency and the light bulb! So we have to pay over the odds.

Nothing hurts more than a false dawn but, for Christ's sake, we haven't even cleared up from that shit meal last night and got over the hangover yet. The dawn may be a while yet.

Derek Knox
143 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:24:38
Good and realistic view, Dermot.
Trevor Peers
144 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:30:37
Very poor display, the article by Lyndon about having patience will now be severely put to the test, a red flag for Silva would have to be when our goal difference reaches –20.

If that happens, god forbid, we can automatically assume we are in a relegation battle and, judging by last night's performance, that won't be too long in coming, unless there is a dramatic improvement when the season starts, our goal difference in the meaningful friendlies so far stands at –3.

Marc Hints
145 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:31:31
Dermot, about time somebody said that. I totally agree with everything you are saying.

Forget last night's game, this is a task of re-building this Everton team and will not be done this summer. It has started as we all can see, the likes of Rooney, Robles, Klaassen, Funes Mori already gone and more will be on that list. It takes a lot of time to change a team and we all have to be very patient.

Players like Williams will be hard to shift, wrong age and on good money, who is going to take him? Even a Championship club cannot afford his wages and he certainly won't drop in wages with his career coming to an end.

I certainly wouldn't like to be Brands at the moment trying to ship out the deadwood we have, it must be a nightmare of a job.

And we cannot keep buying players at the moment until that is done as Marco Silva says you cannot work with 35 players so some must go before we start adding quality.

Everyone on here needs to stop making comments on Marco Silva gone by Christmas after last night, ridiculous comments. He has inherited a very bad unbalanced team and I think with what has happened so far (getting rid of Rooney, Robles, Klaassen etc) is a very good start.

Marc Hints
146 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:37:18
Trevor, I think all us fans need to be realistic and start thinking that yes we are actually a mid-table team, nothing more at the moment. We haven't got the quality at the moment to challenge the top 6 and everyone needs to realise that. This is a huge job for the manager and Director of Football and doesn't help the short time they have this summer with the World Cup and transfer window finishing earlier.

We need to lower our expectations until the so-called dead wood has gone and more quality signings are in. Watching Richarlison last night certainly got my thinking we are on the right track for once in signing a quality player.

Jim Potter
147 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:41:00
This isn't Silva's squad. It's a bloated abortion that needs dramatic surgery. But who's going to pay good money to take the other managers' mistakes away?

Patience. It's going to take time. Some expect instant brilliance. It doesn't exist. What does exist is a lot of dross that needs a kick up the jacksee.

Miracles don't happen overnight. He has to instill his tactics and philosophy into 38 millionaires and try and make them give a toss. We have to get behind him and give him a fair chance. He's just arrived, ffs.

We are meant to be supporters. How about doing it?

Stewart Lowe
148 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:46:49
Our confidence at Everton has been battered for 3-4 years and it was the Martinez team that put us there. Koeman couldn't (or was incapable of) developing a team from the beaten squad that Martinez left us, and that stench still remains. It's like a poisoned chalice.

Being an Everton fan over the last 3-5 years has been like being an England fan prior to the World Cup in Russia, so many false dawns that you question your loyalty to a team that you just don't believe in anymore. I think we need to get rid of as much deadwood from the Martinez era as only then will that stench go away, and I'm talking wholesale changes.

We need to eradicate any trace of the past recent years and start all over again. Get rid of everyone from Mirallas to Davies, from Bolasie to Schneiderlin. Only then will the green shoots come. I would rather have a squad of 18-20 dedicated players that put their body's on the line than 38 past its, and players like lazy Davies who think they have already made it.

This is going to possibly take 4 transfer windows to get right. So many Martinez players and scatter gun purchases from Koeman to get rid of before we can move forward.

Dennis Heaton
149 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:48:08
If that lot was put in the shop window to sell, it needs to be a big window. I think Dickie Lewis's window should just about do it.
Andrew Ellams
150 Posted 27/07/2018 at 07:58:27
It was a friendly so the result is not that imporant. However, the performance and the seeming lack of a plan or system thus far from our latest Messiah is a major concern.

If this is a sign of things to come, we have a major problem and we all know that Moshiri deals with problems by sacking people.

Dermot Byrne
151 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:04:27
"Expectations" Marc. I think there some many expressions a shared hope.

There is the dream. We all dream of us being the best. There is nothing that makes you a "better" fan for expressing that dream. We can demand it, shout for it, go apeshit when it doesn't happen, and accuse others of not dreaming enough, but find me a fan who does not share that dream.

The more interesting debate is the expectations. Here we have differing views.

For some the dream cannot be easily removed from reality and everything therefore becomes an almost daily disappointment and blame is spread widely. Others like me bounce back and forth between a longer view and a temptation to have a hissy-fit after each does of reality gets in the way.

Then there are those who are realists and pragmatists who coldly see how things actually are and are looking for a plan and small steps forward towards the dream.

Then, with each new dawn, there are those who cannot forgive the past disappointments and understandably look for signs of the same happening again. At the other end of the scale are those who believe each new dawn.

Poles apart? No. Both just share a dream and deal with it differently.

Me? I tend to fall for any kind of new dawn. Thankfully that makes TW the brilliant, infuriating, expert, childish and addictive forum it is.

Bottom line, if you see things differently to me you have a respected alternative perspective or are a knob!

Darren Hind
152 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:06:55
Patience... Manana... Jam tomorrow... This time next year we'll all be millionaire's Rodder's.

I'm sick of people annually calling for inexhaustible patience. Its meaningless. The only "given" Silva can expect here is total uncomplicated undiluted impatience.

He may have just gotten here but its been thirty fucking years for the rest of us and in the words of the great Neil Young "and I'm getting old"

My heart went out to Silva last night. I swear I spotted a moment when this bright young coach full of idea's realised the monumental size of his task. He should be buzzing, a new job with a big club, money to spend... but he looked like he may need talking down from a window ledge this morning.

These calls for patience sound like wistful utterings of people of a bygone age looking back with a dewy-eyed nostalgia about the time "you could leave your front door unlocked all night".

Patience died in football when Murdoch rode into town promising untold riches to the most mercenary. If patience returns to football it will be the greatest sporting comeback of all time... Stop calling for it!

Silva will be criticised for last night and rightly so. It's not his fault he has inherited players such as Williams, Mirallas, Klaassen.... It's not his fault that the club cant move them on, but it is his fault that he is hindering the preparation by playing them.

Learn fast, Marco lad, Kick the deadwood to the curb. Let them be somebody else's (Brands') problem. Concentrate on players who can take on board your ideas and stop listening to people who tell you the fans will be patient.

Judging by the comments on here, you've got about 20 minutes of your honeymoon period left. Use them wisely.

Stephen Brown
153 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:12:40
Maybe these terrible performances are not such a bad thing?!

Silva and Brands can now see for themselves that a high percentage of these players are totally inadequate and need moving on.

I would now focus on a starting 11 for Wolves and Let Brands earn his money trying to offload the rest!

Rather he found this out in pre season than at the start of a season with points at stake!

Don Alexander
154 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:15:16
Darren (#152), you're spot on in my opinion re the players. They are a disgrace.
Sam Hoare
155 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:19:35
The biggest disappointment of pre-season for me has been the youngsters. I really hoped that one or two out of Davies, Dowell, Robinson, Vlasic, Sandro and Kenny would stand out in pre-season and show substantial progress and the right to a first-team spot. No evidence of that so far.
Andrew Clare
156 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:20:48
The only way this lot got to 8th in the table last season was by playing anti-football. The minute they start to play the game properly, they are taken apart.

What a poor mediocre bunch they are. I just hope we can off-load the majority of them in the next fortnight. We desperately need 4 key signings now.

Tony Marsh
157 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:25:50
I read an article this morning that said the Man Utd hierarchy put a block on Jose signing Persic and Willian because of their ages. Exactly the idea I thought Kenwright should've employed last season when Koeman and Walsh were signing Rooney and Sigurdsson. Kenwright should also have put a stop to the Klaassen and Keane bids. It was obvious both were crap.

Silva has his work cut out cleaning up 20 years of mismanagement. Last night's results should be a pass for Marco but it won't last long if he keeps playing Schneiderlin and Gueye in midfield.

I can't believe Kenwright allowed the club to give Gana Gueye a 5-year contract last season... The madness continues!

Ray Robinson
158 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:32:46
Darren, you're right about Silva having to learn fast but there is no instant gratification in football these days.

On a different level, Liverpool still haven't yet won the Premier League despite chucking millions at it; Man City still haven't won the Champions League; Tottenham still haven't won anything in God knows how long.

I'm afraid there is no quick fix while the deadwood is rooted out. Yes, Silva can and should immediately sideline the useless players but have we got enough really decent ones in the squad to make a real difference? Rooting out and acquiring better players may take several transfer windows.

I don't want to have to be patient but what alternative have I got?

Derek Knox
159 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:36:30
Sam @155, well said there, I too have been extremely disappointed with the youngsters, who let's be fair, have been given a chance to show what they can do, grab that chance, and come to the fore.

But, no they have emulated their senior counterparts, and just gone through the motions, like a spoilt kid who is on his tenth visit to Disneyworld.

There is something inherently wrong at the Club, but I can't put my finger on it, mainly due to mixed messages, you never really get the full story do you?

Dermot Byrne
160 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:39:41
"Stop calling for it" (patience).

Simple reply: "No!"

For me, I will stop when imho it is the right time.

As for all the "he can expect here is total uncomplicate undiluted impatience" – Evidence points otherwise... certainly at this stage.

Seems to me all many of us disagree about is the scale and speed of our hissy-fit!

Martin Berry
161 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:50:36
As stated in a previous post, it will take any Manager a season to sort out Everton's woes; Silva will do this.

Don't expect anything other than the new season being transitional; those expecting anything else will have plenty of chance to vent via this website.

Darren Hind
162 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:53:56
Dermot, as ever, posts, but says nothing

On a par with calling for rain in the desert and convincing himself his cries are not meaningless.

"Evidence points otherwise – certainly at this stage" ... What, you mean two weeks before a competitive ball is kicked?

You couldn't make this stuff up!

Brian Harrison
163 Posted 27/07/2018 at 08:59:30
I said after the game finished with the window closing earlier and with players coming back late from the World Cup their preparation has been hampered. Then throw into the mix the fact that we have a new manager and a new DOF then it takes time to make it all work. But my biggest criticism of Marco Silva is the game time he is giving to players that won't be part of his starting line up against Wolves.

I worry that the 2 forwards who have goals in them have hardly played, ie, Walcott and Lookman, due to injury we are told. I can believe Walcott is injured I am not as sure about Lookman carrying an injury. This seems as if he or the club have decided there is no future here and are waiting for Leipzig to match the clubs valuation of Lookman. I hope I am wrong because, to me, the lad looks a real talent and unlike many of the forwards at the club he can score goals.

So 4 serious friendlies, won none, and scored only 1 goal; this lack of goals has been the problem for the last couple of seasons. I would love to see Lookman, Richarlison and Walcott be our front 3 against Wolves, all with pace to burn and the one thing defenders don't like is a pacy player against them.

I would just finish by saying I wanted Marco Silva and I do believe he will get it right. But what has happened over the last couple of seasons probably makes us more impatient than ever. Let's hope we beat Rennes and Valencia and give us optimism for the start of the season.

Marc Hints
164 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:03:09

Yes it does make this website the brilliant, infuriating, expert, childish and addictive forum it is.

I do tend to fall for the new dawn everytime but what do I know? I actually thought Koemen and Walsh were the right appointment at the time and thought this is the start of a new era... how wrong was I!

Danny Baily
165 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:04:25
The Everton heirarchy was tasked with overhauling the squad this summer and so far they've failed to do so.

Let's hope we get that left-back and centre-back in as soon as possible. It's already too late to prepare them for the start of the season.

And 20 minutes left of the honeymoon? Silva typically only hangs around for a few months so this seems proportional.

Steve Brown
166 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:09:16
Silva shouldn't have patience with this squad. He needs to insert some serious edge and tension into the players to see who can step up. We have a decent attacking four in Richarlison, Tosun, Walcott or Lookman and Sigurdsson, plus a great keeper. But everything else in between is utter crap.

Centre-back, left-back, central midfielder and a back up striker all a must. And we must get more pace and passing accuracy into our transitions from defence to attack. We will have real pace up front next season but it will be futile if we do not get the ball to them quickly through passing movements on the ground.

As for the youngsters, hate to say it but not one of them looks ready including Davies. It would be better to send the whole lot of them out on loan again. Welcome to Everton, Marco!

Dermot Byrne
167 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:10:25
Darren, get a grip and realise that people have different perspectives.

It is easy to ridicule a view by exaggerating it and you are a master at it.

Thankfully a simple post I wrote about expectations and the job in hand didn't have your particularly thin skin in mind.

With that I kick myself for falling back into ever responding to your posts.

New resolution: "Don't respond to..."

Darren Hind
168 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:21:45

Despite me blanking so many of your attempts to engage me, you have, for some time desperately tried to get my attention. Now you've got it.

You are a perennial happy clapper. For years you have come on here telling people to stop being "negative" and be "patient" – like you... Remind me, How has that gone for you?

You have no right to tell people to be patient. You are a walking example of the futility of "patience" in today's Premier League.

John Raftery
169 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:22:48
The narrative in May, believed by many, was that we had a decent squad which was never going to be relegated and only needed positive management to perform better. What utter rubbish that is proving to be.

Pre-season results are never a reliable guide to the season which lies ahead but, after four games against mainly mediocre opposition, I would have expected some sense of organisation and an understanding among the players as to what system they are supposed to be playing. I would have expected the players, even the many proven to be inadequate, to understand what they are meant to do in defending set pieces.

The poor marking, the misplaced passing and, the brainless running into trouble all point to some fundamental flaws which nearly four weeks of coaching have failed to address. Yes, the squad needs considerable strengthening but even if several new players arrive in the next 13 days, they will need time to settle. Thus, our early season form will be heavily dependent on the core of last season's team.

Silva and Brands have inherited a difficult situation but, after nearly four weeks of the pre-season, the failure to put a few basics in place must be a concern. There is much to be done and not much time to do it before the real stuff starts.

Paul Kennedy
170 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:39:46
Sad to see Kenny at a loss in the first half for both goals — not ready to replace Coleman yet!!
James Marshall
171 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:40:48
I can't help but feel a lot of our players just aren't that good at football.

We do have a decent first 11 in there somewhere but a lot of them are just not up to the job in my view. This has been borne out by 3 different managers using the same players with different systems but the same results = they aren't much good.

Richarlison was head & shoulders above the lot of them last night, and 'Diamond' in commentary made a good point about him over the others – he has a football brain, whereas the rest of them might as well have footballs for brains.

Paul Bernard
172 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:44:41
I didn't see the game but, based on the report, hearing Jagielka get out-muscled seems like a regular occurrence over recent years.

We should've paid attention to this when we played Watford and they started Okaka at Vicarage Road. Problem is he is the best all-round defender at the club at age 35/36. That shows how poor our defence is.

Tony Everan
173 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:46:13
What an opportunity for our young 'talent' last night was. It was laid on for them to show they are Premier League class, maybe top six class.

While I expect dross from the usual suspects, the much heralded young lads should bet stepping up to the plate. It's a very harsh truth, one that hurts. Most are not teenagers anymore, most have decent experience. They need to improve or be moved on.

I may get slated for saying it but Premier League football is a different game to the schoolboy football where they've had past successes.

On last night's showing, many of them do not deserve to be at Everton. They would lucky to get a game for a Championship team. [Would Blackburn want any?]

Derek Taylor
174 Posted 27/07/2018 at 09:59:30
Rather looks like the odorous Allardyce got the best out of some very average footballers.

I was one who moaned about his tactics and the lack of excitement but what little was shown on the OS last night indicated that he had performed miracles with what was available to him.

With Sam given the 'bum's rush', my betting is on Moyes to be Moshiri's next 'saviour'. An all-round fecking mess!

Loko Sanchez
175 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:04:57
How many goals has Tosun scored since the first friendly? Some will say he is starved of service. I say good strikers will find the goal regardless. If he is our best hope, then we are all screwed.
David Milner
176 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:13:34
Crap performance 1st half, better 2nd half but what have we learnt:-

Kenny, Robinson, Williams, Pennington, Jagielka & Mirallas are not up to it and must be sold.

Davies still has a lot to learn, Niasse tries hard... but!

Sigurdsson is not worth his price tag, Sandro & Besic may yet save their careers.

This leaves 23 players out of a squad of 25 that Silva wants to work with.

Pickford, Stekelenburg, Hewelt
Coleman, Baines
Holgate, Keane
Schneiderlin, Davies, Besic, Gana, Baningime, Connolly
Dowell, Sigurdsson, Vlasic, Richarlison, Walcott, Lookman
Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse, Sandro

Connolly, Davies, Lookman, Baningime & Vlasic are all under 21 so I gather that they don't have to be registered in the squad of 25.

Major surgery is needed now. I hope that Digne & Mina are on the way as they are much needed. We still need another striker that can score 20 goals per season though, I don't think that will come from Tosun.

Paul Kelly
177 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:15:22
Not arsed about friendlies or the like but I will say that Koeman came 7th; Koeman, Unsworth and Alladyce came 8th; and, no matter if there is a rebuilding job going on, I expect at least the same position or higher, minimum.

Then I will vent my spleen, pitchside or otherwise. I can't wait till the season starts; don't panic yet, lads – panic then!!!

Pete Clarke
178 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:15:54
It may have only been a friendly but it was also a friendly for the lowly opposition. We should at least be getting goals and that's worrying.

On the subject of the youngsters, well, they should at least be given another year under the new manager but the seasoned pros who haven't done it for years should be first out of the door.

Only an exceptional manager can get miracles out of the current squad and I am hoping Silva becomes just that.

Andy Crooks
179 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:16:59
I have confidence in Silva but it takes a special kind of optimist not to be concerned about our pre-season. We are going to need the same dramatic improvement that Barney Curley finds in a selling plater with bad legs.
John Kavanagh
181 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:26:40
Sam (#155). I too am concerned. But last night I looked again at England under 20s. Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Dowell, Kenny ripping the best that the rest of the world had to offer to shreds (just to cheer me up). By what weird process of inverse alchemy are we managing to turn gold into crap?

Well let's start with role models. Watching experienced senior professionals on big wages repeatedly just go through the motions, openly disrespect the manager and the club (Mirallas and Schneiderlin) and yet still be on the books and selected, week-in and week-out hardly sets an example.

Having managers like Koeman and Allardyce not committed to developing your career doesn't help either – so it's no surprise when any club that seems to offer a way out is so attractive, as in Lookman's case.

You also need a plan. What is expected of the team and exactly what you are supposed to do. Not the hoof and hope, headless chicken or square-peg, round-hole approach of the last two seasons. This will take time, especially zonal marking (which I personally dislike because it can be a great responsibility dodger).

Having no leader on the pitch hardly helps – as was the case until Coleman's return. Why hasn't he been made captain yet? It will presumably be put right once the squad numbers are announced. Please.

Brands and Silva are at least offering a youth based strategy and I am still hopeful that our young players can turn their careers and the club's fortunes round, but only if they have some fit, committed quality players around them. Otherwise, Richarlison's promise will also soon be snuffed out as well.

John Raftery
182 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:27:47
Derek (#174),

I have exactly the same thoughts expressed in your final paragraph.

Jamie Evans
183 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:29:45
Darren (#168), stop being negative and have a little patience, will you. 😉
Tommy Carter
185 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:32:07
Klaassen gone for £12m. These are really dark days as an Evertonian.

Of all the Moshiri era signings, Pickford is the only one that could be a success .This is complete failure in the highest regard. I cannot believe our transfer strategy is really this poor.

There is real value out there and this club seems completely unable to identify it. We are signing players for fees that are ridiculous.

Nobody else wanted Keane;
Nobody else wanted Sigurdsson;
Nobody else wanted Klaassen;

It's not like we are competing with other clubs and outbidding them for these players. Literally no other board can see any value in the players we are being linked with.

Sure, for £20-£25m I think Richarlison would've had lots of potential suitors. But double that price and the only club stupid enough to pay it is ours. Can this board not properly value a player?

How about we value a player and stick to our valuation? If it falls short, we move on to another option.

For the really special player, I agree that we should do everything it takes to get them in. But none of the players we have signed would ever fit that category.

I'm so frustrated. I'd rather we were skint again.

I'm watching Liverpool, Man Utd and Tottenham etc playing in these pre-season games against top teams and putting in performances. Meanwhile, we get rinsed by Blackburn Rovers.

John Wignall
186 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:34:27
Marco, pick your best 16 players, buy another 4 or 5 players, get shut of the rest. The Blues who a have written on here are spot on; time to move on... we all know the problems. Time to sort it before it's too late. Good luck – you're going to need it.
Tony Abrahams
187 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:39:33
If you can't pretend you have got a bit of patience for the modern footballer, then you are truely finished, maybe even before you have even started?

So many of these players need shifting, and it's obvious that some of them are bad blood. One Stoke player said recently that too many players never even gave a fuck last year, and when you hear stories like this, then it makes me think of so many of our current squad.

If Silva had such a look, Darren, it's probably because he can see that way too many don't really care, and unless he can shift out Schneiderlin, Mirallas, Bolasie and Williams, I reckon Finch Farm is going to be one toxic place, this season?

It's easy saying be brutal, but to be brutally honest, these players will just do less and create massive tension behind your back, so the next couple of weeks are massively important now. Shift the deadwood, or die with the bastards, it might even be worth more long-term to pay them just to stay away?

Sam Hoare
188 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:47:39
Yes, John @181, hard for any youngster to show their best when the senior pros and general team are so incoherent. Even so, I expected a bit more and begin to worry that few of them will reach their potential.
James Marshall
189 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:54:21
We have to swallow any losses on players, that's just the way it is. Hard to take but if you buy players and they play badly (for whatever reason) then of course they're sold on at a loss.

At least we get them off our books and can start looking at incomings.

Kase Chow
190 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:55:04
Anyone refusing to give Silva any time / patience is slightly unrealistic/immature imho.

It's been around 2 months is all!!! What exactly should we be doing in friendly matches? Twatting teams 22-0?

We're showing some attacking intent and been rumoured to be in for players in problem positions (eg, imagine we were in for a right-back instead of a centre-back, then we'd all be like, "What's going on?" And recall we bought three No 10s last season so that stupidity isn't unheard of).

Silva's trying to buy young players with experience but also potential and hunger (Richarlison and the Barca duo, for example).

C'mon, guys, let's wake up and get a grip. As some posters have said, Pochettino at Spurs and Klopp at Liverpool have won nothing yet but we'd love our club to be in a similar position to theirs.

It will take time, whether you like it or not.

Steve Carse
191 Posted 27/07/2018 at 10:56:48
I could have been watching any Everton side of the last decade last night. The same pedestrian pace, no one taking responsibility to make things happen, failure to win the second ball, lack of communication between defenders etc etc. I would have expected some sort of indication of change, but there wasn't any – we even bring everyone back for opposition corners!

Silva will get time, and deserves it. But a bad couple of opening results and the pressure will be on.

Paul Tran
193 Posted 27/07/2018 at 11:50:24
This 'patience' debate is more nuanced than some people let on.

I'm very patient when it comes to us playing free-flowing football and flying up the league. I'm patient in the knowledge that like all clubs, we will make mistakes with player acquisitions, sell them at a loss and move on.

What I'm not patient about is watching that lethargic, directionless dross last night.

What I hope Silva (and Brands) learns from last night is that the players regarded as 'good servants' are no longer good enough to get us where we want to be. Back-up, yes. But no more. Some energy and genuine authority are needed quickly.

Chris Corn
194 Posted 27/07/2018 at 11:51:31
I thought we were woeful last night, but in fairness I do not remember a decent pre-season in a long time. Moyes' s were always filled with one crisis or another and the subsequent ones have just been filled with substandard opposition and different issues — whether it be not buying enough quality or as we saw last season buying too many average players.

Ironically, our best seasons in recent memory have been when we have been dreading them going into the first games. Whenever we've been optimistic, we've floundered. I'll clutch at those particular straws — or otherwise, I'll go mad.

Andrew Lum
195 Posted 27/07/2018 at 11:54:14
When is Pickford expected to be back? Will he be involved in the next two games? I can’t imagine going into the new season with Pickford lacking sharpness and match fitness. We need another keeper because Stekelenburg is just not good enough.
Jerome Shields
196 Posted 27/07/2018 at 12:06:20
You would expect to see something different, but that appears not to be the case. The defence isn't good enough. The midfield is non-existent. Forwards isolated as usual and quality sadly lacking.

Silva as a coach is coming under scrutiny. You would think that we would be getting some sense of his style in play. To lose like this with no coaching evident is worrying. . .

Ash Moore
198 Posted 27/07/2018 at 12:18:29
I'm a little concerned. If we don't get some early results in the league proper, then I think Goodison will very quickly turn toxic.
Lenny Kingman
199 Posted 27/07/2018 at 12:25:21
So, 22 goals in the first friendly and a big fat zero in three games since. That's going backwards in a hurry!
Darren Hind
200 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:01:56

My sympathies lie with Silva. He would have known there was a less than healthy atmosphere in the dressing room, but he'll fancy his chances of fixing that.

He will also have known there are several semi-committed players here that he will have to make do with for now... but there is something wrong with this club, has been for years and I believe he discovered that last night.

We analyse it every day. Yet I still haven't heard anybody come up with a feasible explanation as to why five managers, have been unable to get what must be 60-odd players to do something as simple as string a few passes together.

Silva has only been here for a few weeks, but I would bet a month's wages that if he was offered a "reasonable" price for every single player who was here before him, he would snatch your hand of.

Our recent past is dripping with the stench of mediocracy and needs to be wiped out. Maybe we don't need a manager — maybe we need a fucking exorcist!!!

Silva has somehow got to make way for new blood into his dressing room in a ridiculously short period of time. He has to rid the club of the acceptance of mediocrity which now flows through the boardroom, onto the pitch and all around the stands.

If he goes about it in a "patient" manner, he's already toast.

Andy Weir
201 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:13:36
Agreed, it was poor and pre-season has been poor but it there any reason or excuse for booing the 2nd 11 when they went off at half time?

Silva needs time; we need to be patient. We wanted Koeman out; we got it. We wanted Allardyce out; we got it. Two or three transfer windows at least before we get rid of players who are not good enough.

Booing isn't the answer.

Paul Tran
202 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:20:38
Darren, we've been here before. At the end of his first season, Martinez stated that he needed seven players. He was trying to push Kenwright for the budget. We bought Besic, Eto'o and the already-here Lukaku.

After saying that publically, Martinez had to manage the players that had been indirectly told they needed replacing. He couldn't do it.

Koeman was given the budget to do this, but foolishly placed his trust in the 'old guard good servants' who all know The Everton Way, but lack the ruthlessness to succeed. He also failed to turn his signings into a functioning team. Koeman was the wrecking ball that hit the wrong building.

I'm grateful that, despite last year's nonsense, Silva is clearly being backed financially. I hope that he and Brands realise that these 'good servants' are the ones in the way, the ones that need sidelining or replacing, so we can get an new identity on the pitch. That's the first step, while simultaneously replacing them.

Hard job, but it's the job we have to do. And we need someone to do it well, while we have an owner that will pay for it.

Ian Burns
203 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:42:11
Tommy Carter (#185) makes a point I was going to make and that is the quality of opposition some of the top teams playing each other pre-season and we are struggling against the likes of Bury and Blackburn (3-0 last night was so embarrassing).

I accept Silva has a job and a half on his hands due to the size of the squad but I think he now has to make a decision and work solidly with those he wishes to keep and sideline those he doesn't.

By playing those he wishes to get rid of, he is wasting invaluable pre-season time for those he is keeping. They are getting less playing time and less time to understand the type of system and football Silva wishes to adopt.

Time is now, Marco, me lad – not once the season starts.

Dave Rusk
204 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:47:53
I agree, Steve (#191) but I commented at Bury that we were moving the ball forward, on the deck and at pace, particularly in the first half hour. How could it revert so quickly?

Last night, the guy next to me behind our goal said "We'll have Allardyce back before Christmas." Although meant as a joke, the alarming thing was... nobody laughed — as the enormity of Silva's task was so plain to see.

Steve Ferns
205 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:49:50
Darren, it ain't Silva who needs to do it, it's Brands. That's his role. Silva has clearly given Brands his requests for players and asked for six. I expect he's also given a list of players to get rid of. It's therefore up to Brands.

Dunno if you guys know this, but Silva has been running double sessions in training. This is meant to include the day of the Blackburn game. So, that's why they were only playing a half. They're training hard and working on fitness as well as the rest of the coaching.

Not sure when, but the switch from pre-season and fitness work will switch soon and it'll be more match preparation and the amount of fitness work being done will decrease.

That said, it's no excuse for the poor performances by 90% of the 20-odd players who wore blue last night.

I still think it'll be “alright on the night” as I expect a centre-back, a left-back, and central midfielder will come in. Add Walcott, Sigurdsson, Pickford and Holgate to the second-half side, plus three new signings, and I think we'd all worry a little less.

Minik Hansen
206 Posted 27/07/2018 at 13:58:45
One word we need: Stability. We've lacked that in a few years. Moyes had us stabilized, but couldn't take it to the next level, though with a shoestring budget most of the time.

Silva has brought Richarlison in, just looking forward to another, as he seems a good signing.

I don't worry as much as others about the Blackburn game. I need to see the real first team playing most of the game before giving it a reality check. There is time though, for something to happen with signings, both ins and outs.

Steve Ferns
207 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:00:46
Silva has said that the team will have major changes at half-time again on Saturday, according to the Echo:

“The Portuguese chief also admitted his side are still ‘working to improve' as the Premier League season closes in and also confirmed the rotation policy he has employed this summer will continue in France this weekend.

“We are working really hard,” Silva continued. “We have been using two different teams, giving 45 minutes each because it's important we give time to many players and we will do the same on Saturday [against Rennes] as well.

“The first half was not good for us. It was a bit different in the second half but we made some mistakes and always when you make mistakes they have chances to score.

“But we had very good chances to score, more in the second half. In the first half with Gylfi [Sigurdsson] and then three or four in the second half. We did not have the final touch in these moments but that is something we are working to improve.”

Derek Knox
208 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:24:11
Steve @205, you mention the double training sessions, in which the evidence of what we are witnessing, albeit pre-season, don't seem to be having any effect.

As Ian Burns has succinctly mentioned, I too fail to see what Silva is achieving by giving the deadwood extra game time, to almost definitively prove that they are not part of the future plans. At the expense of those who are perceived to be starting certainties.

As has also been mentioned on many occasions, the results in pre-season have no significance in terms of the Premier League, but I would argue that the psychological effect of losing, can be become a habit, or an acceptable practise to the players.

I have supported Everton for well over fifty years, and I can remember many games where we have lost, okay you can't win them all, but the team have given 110% to a man.

If you have played a better team on the day, or have had an unbelievable slice of bad luck, or even refereeing decisions have gone against you (found later by analysis and slow motion to be incorrect) that is reluctantly acceptable.

At least they have tried, but to see the modern footballer stroll around and barely go through the motions, with the 'that'll do attitude' is all too apparent, and in my eyes unacceptable.

Pete Edwards
209 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:31:11
Anyone saying that their brief of clearing the deadwood has been a failure – have any of you lot tried selling shit for top dollar then telling the buyer they need to keep paying millions and millions more a year?

If no one wants the players, or the buyers aren't able to agree an affordable wage then they ain't going anywhere very quickly unfortunately... That's not Silva's or Brands's fault –I'm pretty sure they will be working hard to get rid of the useless lumps!

Craig Walker
210 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:31:34
Double training sessions. Hands on coaching. This all sounds promising. However, if Silva thinks that there is a future at the club for the likes of Mirallas, Besic, Williams and Pennington then he sees a different Everton team than the one I've watched for 40 odd years.

The problem with changing the manager is that the deadwood get a new opportunity to show what they're worth. Mirallas is the one that gets to me the most. He should have been sold after that penalty debacle under Martinez but instead, he hangs around like a bad smell.

Pennington, I'm afraid to say has never been good enough. He was woefully exposed in the Anfield derby under Koeman. I have a Leeds mate who was so glad that we took him back.

Besic has never shown anything at Everton. I had really high hopes for him when he signed but he's flattered to deceive.

I keep reading Evertonians listing our players and saying we've got a good XI. They list names like Niasse, Bolasie, Keane, Schneiderlin and Davies. I just don't see it myself.

We're all agreed that we finally have a top class goalkeeper (until he decides his future is elsewhere). Coleman is a good right-back, came back well from his injury and should be the club captain. I think Walcott is useful and at least has pace and Tosun could be a good striker. I'm prepared to see how Sigurdsson does now that Rooney has left.

Beyond that, I don't see anything encouraging in our squad. I can only see another season where the top 6 hammer us and we continue to disappoint on our travels. The only hope is that we can beat the teams around us at Goodison Park.

I've been optimistic in the past during our many false dawns but I don't think I've ever felt as frustrated or ambivalent about a forthcoming season as I do now. Instead of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, it should be Same Old Same Old.

Tony Abrahams
211 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:34:13
Get paid,Paul Tran, the old guard definitely need to be moved on as well, simply because they are too much of a reminder of the Kenwright years, where being best of the rest was seen as a magnificent achievement.

Just thinking about Everton puts me on a rollercoaster, but if we can't get some of Silva's first choice players into the club soon and get rid of some of Ronald's ill-thought-out disasters, then this is what this season might turn out to be, a complete disaster.

On the other hand, if we can make some of these changes quickly, then we could end up having a really good season imo, but I'm getting away from reading about it for a couple of days now, otherwise I might end up in Winnick.

Tony Everan
212 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:42:14

Or just shorten it to “Nil”, as in Everton Nil, Blackburn 3

Mike Allen
213 Posted 27/07/2018 at 14:44:28
I just hope lessons have been learnt. We have some okay players and that's it. It's time to try and mold a side with what we have for the new season. Far too many that are less than okay and have been hanging around for far too long.

We will only recruit similar standard with maybe youth on their side and then we will only be standing still as far as progress goes. Win, lose or draw – just get us competitive!

Tony Everan
214 Posted 27/07/2018 at 15:01:35
I don't think we should be getting too carried away though, pre-season doesn't count, it is a fitness and experimental exercise.

It's all nonsense until the Valencia match at Goodison next week. A lot of players last night won't even make the bench, the fringe players did not take their chance to impress and they won't get many. Others will be sharper and more focussed.

Against Valencia, I will be expecting a much more organised display consisting largely of our starting 11.

Hold fire until at least then!

Darren Hind
215 Posted 27/07/2018 at 15:44:17

I know it's Brands's job to move the unwanted players out of the club, but that could take a while.

In the meantime, Silva needs to move them out of the dressing room.

David Connor
216 Posted 27/07/2018 at 15:49:01
Let's not get our knickers in a twist. It was only a pre-season friendly. But it does show Silva how bad our squad is.

We've a lot of youngsters in our squad but I for one don't think they are good enough and I include Davies in that. Far too many of his passes go astray.

We need to up our game massively or we are in for another long horrible season. But we need to get behind the new boss and whatever team he puts out, good or bad.

Jamie Evans
217 Posted 27/07/2018 at 16:00:11
I wonder if he's playing basically two teams every game, not only for him to make up his mind, but also to put some in the shop window?

Brian Furey
219 Posted 27/07/2018 at 16:22:37
I'm usually a positive-minded guy but I'm afraid I don't hold much hope for us this season again. For a long long time now, we have been a mid-table side with 6th or 7th the best I think we can hope for.

Yes, I'd like to see us really go after the League Cup and not play new faces but we are the 7th best side in so many departments.

Even last season, which was a total nightmare in my eyes, we still managed to finish 8th, one place above Leicester who were the Champions 2 years previous.

I think what people are missing when it comes to signing new players, is that most of these "better" players don't see it appealing to come to a club like us and I think that's why we have to offer a high fee and high wages now. Even then, players like Sandro and Klaassen then just use that to get a newer better deal with another club. I find it hard to believe those two, for example, are as bad as they were last season.

Talking of such players, what did Geri do last season at Barcelona? I just read now on Wiki that Watford signed him in June on a permanent deal for €13M. Did Barca lose money on him then?

John Pierce
220 Posted 27/07/2018 at 16:52:39
Patience is, as Paul Tran points out, a contextual thing. But that doesn't and shouldn't preclude poor performances, pre-season or not, from being called out.

Last night was awful in many ways. Remember our Europa League qualifying last year, real bad... and that was the clue things were in poor shape.

I do not subscribe to any horseshit of "it's not his team", "give him time etc".

Target driven performance, progression and results. I don't give the fella 18 months to hang himself and check in after 16 and go "Oh, alright lad, 2 games to sort it or you're sacked." You are setting him up to fail.

You give anyone small manageable chucks to improve, if you want them to succeed. Surely knowing someone, ie, Brands, is over his shoulder should either produce the goods or establish quickly Silva is not up to it.

This oversight, lack of clear focus on targeting the teams, and coaches performance has been missing at Everton for ages.

Oh, I want my effing money back for that stream – you fookers!!!

Dermot Byrne
221 Posted 27/07/2018 at 17:24:01
John (#220): I agree totally about performance management and setting of targets. It is the what the rest of us set or have...

My original post re patience was not an argument for a "just keep trying" blank cheque, but really just trying to look at expectations In the context of a few friendlies and weeks.

Interesting to hear comments about it being the lack of effort or desire that is unacceptable. Totally agree and nothing drives me more insane in football or the "real world".

Joe McMahon
222 Posted 27/07/2018 at 20:17:15
Oh No — please, no more talk of Moyes, everyone. Can I just remind you, since Everton, he's been at FOUR clubs and never lasted a full season, relagating Sunderland (who our mate Big Sam had kept up). If that's not enough how about:

Shrewsbury 2-1 Everton (the year they were relegated to the conference)
Everton 1-4 Blackburn
Dinamo Bucharest 5-1 Everton
Everton 0-4 Bolton
Everton 1-4 West Brom
Everton 0-1 Oldham
Everton 0-3 Wigan

It goes on and on... 12 games at Anfield: zero victories. I think we've seen enough of Mr Moyes.

Derek Taylor
223 Posted 27/07/2018 at 21:56:18
Problem is, Tony at 211, the Kenwright years were better years — on the pitch at least!

I can't think of one aspect of the football side which is better now than in the past.

And don't give me that DoF nonsense. Just money for spending the Club's money. Crazy!

Alan McGuffog
224 Posted 27/07/2018 at 23:15:42
A little off point but I saw a photo of Ewood park with a stand half-empty.

I realise a few thousand made the journey to support Everton but obviously the good burghers of Blackburn couldn't be arsed. They would have been queuing up to see Klopp's heroes, methinks. How dreadfully sad.

Dale Rose
225 Posted 28/07/2018 at 13:17:37
We are very top heavy with dross on high wages. Silva has just come in and has inherited this dross. I think he has shown an open mind in giving them a chance, they don't appear however to have taken it.

It's a long process to get rid of many of these players. Not many clubs are going to take them.

I think things are moving in the right direction and I'm afraid that it is, a question of patience at the moment.

The club is work in progress at the moment, and will be so for the next couple of seasons.

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