Boring Winter Snoozefest as Blues spurn important win

Maybe he’s put Mina in for Holgate due to the expected high-ball barrage but, injuries aside, it looks like horses for courses.

Gonna be a massive battle today and psychologically a massive game bearing in mind the Christmas fixtures.

Hopefully no more injury casualties today. Take a win ugly, but it must be a win.

Holgate needs games to get back to where he was last season.

Delph didn't look comfortable at left-wingback when he came on last week.

What has happened to Olsen?

Players like Ralph Coates. Andy Lockhead. Willie Morgan had them challenging at the top end of the table.

Thankfully they"re nowhere near that good these days.

3-1 to the boys In blue.

So little of this makes sense to me. If this was a team that was stinking the place out every week I'd be calling for the manager's head, regardless of his level of experience. But we're not consistent enough to either do well or not each week. We're up and down.

Basically. Dunno. Hope we win.

Ideal: Goals, and rest some players @ 70 mins+ for the Chelski game.

Might suit Siggy this match later on as they're not as pacey as Leeds, can rest one of our key players. So once again, we need him to play his part and controversy or uproar expected.

Enjoy the game chaps, Carlo can stick that selection right up his arse, sick to death of certain players picked or included on the bench, while others are omitted.

Rant over

It’s all a little too comfortable at the moment. Win, lose or draw most of the players are guaranteed their spot!

Some of the serial failures should have been jettisoned by now but they still seem to get a pick!

Come on Carlo make a fool out of me today, I’m depending on it!!!

I’m not calling for Ancelotti to be sacked yet, but I am increasingly disillusioned with his selections. We should be controlling this game and be looking to put 3 or 4 past Burnley, instead we have a back 5 and an isolated midfield, which leads to an isolated front 3.

Our only hope is an early goal, so Burnley play into our hands.

No more excuses Carlo.

You’re right! And it’s made worse by 2 wings backs that are not really wing backs who don’t know the role!

I hope it’s Godfrey right back, Delph left back in a 4-3-3?!

I'm looking at my screen and Doucoure has gone wide. Allan doesn't have an Everton player within 40 metres of him in any direction. This is madness.

Not rocket science is it? We've actually got a midfield who can defend a bit, and give us an option when we play out.

The rest just comes down to whether we are better than Burnley, as opposed to giving them a head start.

Is it bad I was pleased to see Delph grab his hamstring?

Playing Delph at wing back just to ensue he's injured before the January transfer window so he can bring in a quality left back.

Always 2 steps ahead that man.

Another goal conceded in which the opposition didn't have to work for it. No problem with trying close passing to play through the opposition, but NOT in the opening two minutes around your own penalty area. Put us on the back foot against a Burnley side who specialise in defending one goal leads.

We've got forward well enough and had more attempts than them, but the poor close control and underhit passing means we have no fluency or building up a head of steam.

One piece of quality (and good referring in not buying the Burnley player going down under Allan's challenge) between Allan, Richy and Dom somehow sees us go in level.

I really hope this is one of those Jekyll & Hyde games in which we are terrible one half and world-beaters in the other.

Oh! And a great save by Pickford at a key point in the game to ensure we didn't go 2-0 down.

We switch to a back 4, put 3 in midfield and play better.

It’s not like we’ve ever tried this 4-3-3 formation or had any success with it.

In the summer *someone* made a decision to sign a FOUTH right footed centre back instead of wingers, a new first choice right back, or experienced cover at left back. Someone also made the decision to let Walcott and Kean leave.

He’s also now making decisions that include playing a ‘wingback focused system’ with no actual specialist wingbacks available! At least not in the left anyway, where he’s made the decision to play an ageing crock there instead.

To confound that, there’s the decision to have 3 centre midfielders on the bench, with no natural left footed player anywhere near the team. We could also moan about Siggy and Tosun ahead of some youngsters, but enough others are pointing that out too.

These seem to be very poor choices, indicative of a manager who seems to be too comfortable in repeating the poor decisions.

IMHO he needs to:

- Play 4 at the back. If he has to, then use Holgate on the right and Brathwaite on the left.

- whilst there are no first choice fullbacks fit, include at least one of Nkounkou, Kyle John, Small on the bench, and give them a go in unlikely even Jarrod or Mason let us down.

- play 3 in front of the 4. Gomes, Doucoure and Allan is much stronger than just Doucoure and Allan. Iwobi and Davies could do well in a 3 as well. If Gbamin gets back he’ll be ideal as a holder and shot blocker here too, but consider Mason and Godfrey for the role too maybe.

- when James gets inevitably goosed at 60 mins, put Iwobi in there, or move Richie across and bring Gordon or Bernard on.

Anyway, who am I to question a man who’s won so much. Maybe the time to judge is at the end of the year, but I’m genuinely flapping about the next 4 weeks of very tough matches. No points today abs we could drop like a stone.

Only positives from that were Gomes and Iwobi.

Doucoure is so bad I actually welcomed the introduction of Sigurdsson.

It shouldn't be a surprise that full backs get plenty of the ball. It's what they do with it that matters. Iwobi's end product is poor. He's just not much of a footballer.

As for the rest, who the fk knows anymore. There's endeavour but we're so hamstrung by poor selections that it's hard to judge anyone.

Carlo needs to pull his head out of his arse and make some of the more obvious decisions. I find it hard to believe that the team aren't thinking "wtf is he doing?" every week when he announces the team.

Duncan for Carlo

While he comes in for criticism, Pickford kept us in the game while his opposite number also made a couple of really good saves.

Passing is dreadful, defend like statues. Chsmpions League - you're having a laugh.

We have players who considering by their pay should be able to do this, but ultimately it was a fair result, we were only as good as Burnley.

Watching the game as a whole that memorable commentary for Brazil's 4th goal in the 1970 World Cup final sprang to mind "they seem to take it in turns", however, our midfielders seem to take it turns to play poorly during any given 90 minutes.

Gomes in my opinion was poor, giving the ball away more than the much-maligned Tom Davies usually does. Siggy had one big opportunity to win the game but fluffed it, and it was the only thing of note that he did during his brief cameo.

We have issues when our playmaker is Iwobi and not Richarlison or James. The lack of clear-cut chances made in the second-half is a concern as the front three aren't knitting together like they did in the opening months, Richarlison, in particular, seems less interested than he did before the international break. There were also occasions when the front three went for their own personal glory rather than picking out a team-mate in good positions.

We face a severe test next week against Chelsea, which is why I'm disappointed that we didn't go for Burnley with more gusto.

Now we’ve all seen it doesn’t work for the 3rd or 4th time this season, can we just revert to a back four and put proper players in there for the rest of our supporting days?!

First off, even Ancelotti has to consign that formation to history. We stunk until Delph went off and likely go on to lose without the change. Yes, I know Conte won the league playing wingbacks but it's his preferred setup (Inter are playing it now). Doesn't suit us at all. Even with a right-footed centre half and winger playing fullback we looked better in a 4-3-3. There's no debate any more.

He's making decisions he just doesn't need to make.

Yes we have better quality than burnley but without work rate we have nothing. Those who think we are to good for moyes or allardyce take a look. Are we any further forward than when they were in charge?

Oh, throw in lazy and lethargic for good measure.

Also we weren't lucky, the least we deserved there was a draw. We got caught cold but were much the better team after the formation shift.

Until Gomes came on, our two central midfielders were out-numbered again, not helped by their terrible passing in the first half. We had no pace on the bench at all, so could not stretch Burnley whose defence is not quick.

Another poor managerial performance from Ancelotti. Since the Derby, he has lost the plot frankly.

Not to me it isn't, Carlo. So lacking in intensity and desire. The team is starting to play like you, slumming it on the sideline and raising an irate eyebrow now and again, rather than getting stuck in and brushing aside these no-marks who should be cannon fodder for a man of your fantastic but now sadly faded reputation.

Numerous times they were gifted possession or won it back high up the pitch and broke quickly with a simple through ball or ball played into space.

Good tactics against our slow Central defenders who did well considering.

My main grief isn't against formations or starting line ups, its the amount of times we fail to pass the ball to a team mate 10 yards away.

Play it simple, play it forwards even if it's wacking it 50 yards into space rather than backwards or trying the impossible pass through an opposing player.

I'll let everyone's else moan about the team and subs which were very poor again.

Only at Everton after four years of prolonged massive spending could a team/club become worse.

I don't want to blame Ancelotti but let's be honest, we have a team of international players, on paper they should be producing better than they are right now.

The manager doesn't seem to have any kind of playing style in place and couple that with them still looking so unfit, its weird because a year in we should now be seeing both of these things implemented on the side.

As I say it just seems that at Everton these days mediocrity is acceptable, is Moshiri happy with that or is he not all that arsed, who knows but you couldn't see it being acceptable for a club like Spurs or even Wolves or Leicester to spend so much money yet have such low aspirations.

The bad news- Carlo continues to mystify with his team selection. No Nkounkou or Gordon even on the bench.

To bring Sigurdsson and Tosun on shows the shortsightedness.

It's either that or he is being told to put players in the shop Windows otherwise what sense does it make.

Another bad day at the office Carlo. You are gradually losing the faith of your supporters.

As for the team, we're inconsistent and underperforming. Ratings:

Pickford - 7 some good saves, but again beaten from range and looked uncomfortable with high balls.

Godfrey - 8 stalwart effort at left-back, very comfortable. Would have no problem seeing him line up there again.

Mina/Keane - 7 solid.

Iwobi - 7 our best player when at wing-back, did OK at fullback, unexpectedly. Final ball needs work.

Delph - 5 OK defensively but offered nothing going forward.

Allan - 7 started very poorly, mistake for their goal, improved a lot and instrumental in our equalizer.

Dacoure - 7 solid performance

Rodriguez - 7 couldn't get involved until we changed to a 4-3-3, effective thereafter. Could have had a goal and assist.

DCL - 7 took his only real chance we'll, isolated early on, starved for quality service from wide

Richy - 6 provided the assist but struggled to make an impact otherwise, similar to last week.

Gomes -7 decent cameo last week but impressed today. Looks fitter, stronger and dare I say quicker? Used the ball well, carried it and generally improved our midfield by about 100% Looks like the player we brought in on loan.

Sigurdsson - 6 great save from Pope to deny a winner, couldn't have done any better really. Only limited involvement otherwise. Impact sub if he is still here in Jan.

Tosun - 4 the invisible man. Only a cameo but as an emergency late sub I'd rather see one of the under 23s.

The reluctance to bring in two young natural full-backs and give the team some balance is pig-headed pedantic rubbish. I know the squad is littered with over-the-hill plodders and Championship standard millionaires but that team today was unbalanced, shapeless and slow beyond belief, just go 4-4-2 from the start and try to win the fucken game.

ps: Richarlison stunk, looks totally disinterested and no doubt wants away from this Titanic of a club, I expect Calvert-Lewin will be away too as soon as we are approached by a more "ambitious" club, Utter shite!

Carlo's job is to choose the best available players to him and for him to pick a system that suits those players. If this current form continues from now until the new year, Carlo won't have to worry about the strength of the squad because he'll be doing something far away from Goodison.

Even if it was true that Carlo is 'sending a message', the board is usually reluctant to spend money in January plus we'd have to sell a player in order to purchase one.

The youngsters could have been given run-outs in the last few weeks, even if only the cameos given to the likes of Siggy et al, which may have given them the confidence to play against the better sides which await us this side of Christmas. Putting them in now places unfair pressure on them and unless they are made of sterner stuff than the 'elder statesmen' they are being set up to fail.

That may have been the case in Italy circa 2005.

Delph at left wingback should be strictly forbidden in his terms of employment.

Quality wins games most of the time and Richarleson's pass to DCL for the equaliser and James nutmeg for Sigurdsson near the end where our only real moments.

I just don't see enough desire in the team to win a game of footy. Iwobi has improved but he lacks quality delivery. Thought Allen had his worse game in a blue shirt. I look at the bench and scratch my head at how we can change the game. Jjk must still be injured whilst Nkounkou must be an awful trainer. It's going to be a tough one next week.

My concern is the tough run of fixtures we have coming up.

Delph epitomizes this mindset, he turns back, ponders and the moment he applied any pace into his game broke down. I’d seriously consider canceling the lads contract. Mina & Keane struggled all day against Wood despite the reason for their inclusion, they should be able to handle a long ball.

The last 15 of the 1st and first 10 of the 2nd we did up the tempo and really should have wrapped the game up. We then lost any interest and intensity and Burnley wound the game down, delirious with a point against the mighty Everton.

Ancelotti, selecting Delph was poor, again. I detest managers who repeat the same errors, this is a terrible look. His substitution of Gomes did work systemically but most of those players who are the talent in that team, we’re rotten. James, Richarlison and Gomes, all stunk the gaff out and Allan tip toed around the pitch one booking away from suspension, and it showed.

Pickford, Godfrey, Iwobi and Calvert-Lewin all decent today and can rightly look at the rest and exclaim. WTAF lads!?

We're a mid table team. And we ain't going to be anything more.

DCL will sign for Utd, Richarlison will get his move to PSG. Digne will go too. And we'll still be bringing on Tosun and Sigurdsson.

He started at Burnley joined United in 1968 and returned to Turf Moor in the mid-seventies.

To bad Siggy failed to score late on.

A draw is a poor result. We're tumbling down in the table and it won't be long until we're in the bottom half.

We're only a top half side if all are players are healthy (and I doubt we'll be able to field our top 11 very often the rest of this season).

James is fine with our best 11 if Coleman is busting a lung and Doucoure and Allan on song. Anything less and he is a passenger.

If I pick this one apart, I say Burnley are lucky to come away with a point. They done the Burnley thing and tried to steal it with set pieces, throwing themselves to the ground to get free kicks in dangerous areas and were backed up by the media who are desperate to support an anti-football English manager and because he's English, no other reason as there is no footballing logic into supporting that approach to football. They were dreadful and I'm glad to have that fixture out of the way.

I'm disappointed with the result, but I'm more than happy to go head to toe with anyone on the performance. Unfortunately, many now seem to be like Covid obsessed / Brexit focussed politicians. They are worried about today's opinion polls and next week's league table, not the strategic picture and where we want to be in a year or two.

With that analogy applied to today's match. I thought Pickford was tremendous. He saved us as much as Pope did them (but Pope get's the credit). Our 3 centre backs were brilliant; Mina, Keane and Godfrey dealt with the awful aerial bombardment Burnley put you under all afternoon. I call out Mina in particular.

Allan and Doucoure were fantastic. I despaired when we took them off. Finally we have a Peter Reid replacement (Allan) and a box to box midfielder (Doucoure). When the latter was running at them, they were terrified. We have the makings of a midfield engine in both. And when Gomes came on, he showed how he can influence a game with those two patrolling like predators.

I wish the guy no ill, but I hope I never see Delph in an Everton shirt again. I have no idea what he has ever offered us or any other club for that matter. He was part of the fault for the first goal (although in fairness not the only).

Iwobi; I can only think that we have him on the pitch as he is as unpredictable to the opposition as he is to our own team. He confuses everyone as you don't know what is coming next.

We miss our full backs. With Seamus and Lucas on the pitch today, that is a nailed on victory. Don't underestimate that; but we are still in touch with our target.

As we knew at the beginning of the season, depth was always an issue but I actually liked the performance today. We didn't get the win but the way we are trying to play bodes well. It's not about today or next week, it's where we are going in the next year or two. For once. Stick with something and build.

I have my helmet and body armour ready for the incoming.

On the downside, this was Burnley, a seriously average team who are relegation candidates. They were almost our equal. Richie had a poor game by his standards while Pickford, who I thought was blameless for the goal, continues to scare me witless on set pieces. Burnley were confident enough to be landing it inside our six yard box and still he stays rooted. Some superb saves don't quite equalise the scales. Above all, it seems the manager has zero faith in most of the back ups. In some instances, with good reason because neither do we, but why buy Niels if he doesn't play when Digne is out? Why did we not sell Kenny if he is no longer rated? Why loan out Kean if the only alternative is Tosun? What has Gordon done to not even feature as an impact sub in a struggling side? Is he going to be our next Lookman? If we can't beat Burnley, how on earth are we going to pick up any points from the next 3 games? I'm hoping for an answer to that last one but I can't see it right now. God help us if DCL gets injured...

I can't see 4-4-2 working for us, at all.

Today's performance reeked of typical Everton. It was no different from all the preceding years of dross churned out by Martinez, Koeman, Silva etc. You would at least expect by now under Carlo to see a pattern of play and a game plan emerging... but No – it's back to one game at a time, shuffle the pack mentality. The substitutions are also just as bad as years gone by.

What is the answer to this terrible spiral downwards? My plan would be a face-saving exercise. Get rid of Brands, put Carlo upstairs, give Duncan Ferguson the job again until we sort things out.

This is unacceptable. Surely Big Dun can't do any worse than Calamity Carlo?

We are doing the right things. Let's look at the strategic picture, not the week by week rollercoaster one.

A team that shall not be mentioned drew 1 - 1 away to lowly Brighton in a fixture they are expected to win last week.

Hello Allan,

Football has been a traditional pressure release valve for the working classes for a long time, this is why Boris Johnson wanted it re-started prompto!

Some might cynically say that it distracts from the current grand Covid and Brexit F**K UP by the government we are having to endure.

Bile will always spat out at times like this and rightly so, but taking Covid and Brexit out of the equation EFC fans have more right than most to spit it.

Obviously, Carlo is one of the greats but what the fuck?

I'm seriously beginning to think Carlo may be great when he's got world class players to manage and depth to his squad, but when he's got a lesser outfit like Everton at the moment - not so much.

Coleman should be back soon, and I reckon there must be a chance of a loan full back in Jan. Anyone that provides insurance for James to play without worry on his defensive side, and can provide overlapping width in possession.

Godfrey will be class when the team is of better quality. Maybe have to sell our loan defender Gibson to part fund a right back... because proven Prem defenders like Godfrey and Holgate even with rapid pace provide evidence it's not easy to learn the game in defence in the top league?

One thing we miss is the usual drill of Digne bombing down the left to cross to DCL. But, there's no one who can cross with a leg peg with variation and accuracy, so without an athletic left foot wand like Baines/Hinchcliffe/Digne, no replacement probably meant players doing different things recently. So if we can stretch to two full back loans even better. But cover for Coleman to help James would by my priority loan in Jan.

He looks clueless and makes his task even more impossible by putting square plugs in round holes week after week. His task is made even more challenging by his failure to identify where he needs replacements with guts for the fight.

No point in calling for his head because his paymasters have vowed to stick with him come what may. Mid table is the new seventh, folks !

That thought has gone through my mind. In fact I posted similarly towards the end of last season given performances then.

Having said that, looking at the micro level (each individual player's touch, control, perception, passing etc), we have too many players who, regardless of a manager's tactics (fair or foul) just don't cut the mustard CONSISTENTLY. Delph can occasionally show some guile. Keane has had (for him!) a good season so far. Godfrey has performed with valour given his youth. Mina is a sucker for the ball over the top (Burnley looked to exploit it, as have Liverpool etc). The last two games, Iwobi has played well - for him! And then we have the bench that includes Siggy - say no more (Anika, no need to endorse that!); Tosun - who should have been on his way ages ago; Bernard who flatters to deceive (a lightweight like me!). And so it goes on.

I expect this manager to get a tune out of some of the players some of the time

That thought has gone through my mind. In fact I posted similarly towards the end of last season given performances then.

Having said that, looking at the micro level (each individual player's touch, control, perception, passing etc), we have too many players who, regardless of a manager's tactics (fair or foul) just don't cut the mustard CONSISTENTLY. Delph can occasionally show some guile. Keane has had (for him!) a good season so far. Godfrey has performed with valour given his youth. Mina is a sucker for the ball over the top (Burnley looked to exploit it, as have Liverpool etc). The last two games, Iwobi has played well - for him! And then we have the bench that includes Siggy - say no more (Anika, no need to endorse that!); Tosun - who should have been on his way ages ago; Bernard who flatters to deceive (a lightweight like me!). And so it goes on.

I expect this manager to get a tune out of some of the players some of the time

I’m surprised by your loyalty to Dunc given his wayward playing career here. He might do alright as a rabble rouser for a game or two but that sort of heart on sleeve approach never lasts for long.

I do agree with you on Brands. He’s been here three years and was involved in signing Gomez Bernard Delph Iwobi etc he’s also seen our once promising group of under 23s peter out and be shipped off for little or nothing to struggling clubs. There is no sign that the current batch of under 23s have the talent or a path to the first team. As the overseer of everything, money wasted on the first team, lack of development from the youth team all falls under him. There seems to be no overall plan or coordination. I don’t see anything positive really that Brands has bought to the club. The occasional coffee with Adeniran? Letting Moise Kean’s Mum down? Selling Robinson on the cheap. Offloading Tarashaj only to see him bizarrely returned by the buyers.

We need to hope that Gbamin comes back and be the player who can sit in front of defence. If not, try and bring in Sami Khedira on loan to see out is final 6 months of his Juve contract. Either option would mean the end for Sigurdsson. I still think Gomes can be a valid member of the squad. He did okay today.

Good on you for taking the positves out of the situation, but today Everton didn't really look like winning and even if Siggy had put that glorious chance away, it would have been welcome points, but far from convincing. The defence still allows too many chances for the opposition to score. We managed a draw, but I don't think we did enough to win the match, which is concerning because with the players we have in the team right now they should have created far more problems for Burnley than they did.

Firstly, Ancelotti has only been here ONE season!

Secondly, Dunc said himself last year that he didn't want the job yet (then). He has very little experience. His tactics during his tenure were a very basic 4-4-2 with direct play. There was a reaction (dead cat bounce?) first game, against Chelsea but we didn't look as good after that. He'd have needed to show a lot more than just lining us up in a basic manner and being fired up on the sideline.

Thirdly, switching managers AGAIN would made us look like exactly what we would be: a knee jerk panicky outfit with no long (or mid) term strategy. Teams that cut and change managers so rapidly usually end up getting relegated. I live in Durham, know several Sunderland fans and saw how that approach can go.

Is Ancelotti a spent force? I don't know. I certainly don't agree with his tactics and team selections but the idea of pulling him in favour of an absolute novice who'd only qualification for the job is he's an ex-player and coached us to one big win during his short tenure is ludicrous.

Would anyone have guessed from the efforts so far he was a CL trophy winner?

It's one match. We look like we are starting to do the right things.

Everton teams I have seen in the past lost matches and drew matches. Everton in December 1983 had a dreadful 0 - 0 draw at home to Coventry in front of 13,000 fans at Goodison Park.

But the Manager and team were trying to do the right things.

I saw the team trying to do the right things and play the right way today.

Back to my point. Stop thinking week by week, game by game.

Alternatively, let's go for the Moyes, Dunc and Unsy Dream Team and see where that gets us.

The xG for the shot btw was 0.39, or 39%, so was a good chance, but more likely to be saved than scored. it was our 3rd best chance, after DCL's two attempts (rated at 60 and 59%).

I don't think we can blame him for not converting the chance tbh.

Failing that, lets sack him, go back to Big Dunc and play Kenny, Davies and Gordon because they try hard.

We miss our full backs obviously. I don't rate Doucoure. That's about all I can muster.

One to forget.

Anyway, this thread is about today's match, which I have commented upon as have you - so we'll leave it there.

We have a bad squad. We’ve had a bad squad for years. That isn’t solved in ONE window.

I love Big Dunc but he has no managerial experience and got us a few results on pure aggression which works in the short term and it was mainly the fans who got us through that period.

Just take a look at the bench and you’ll realise why we’re poor. We have a good manager. He may make mistakes but ask yourself who comes in that’s realistic?

This fickle fanbase needs to get a grip and realise we need some stability and not call for the managers head every year because its not going our way currently. This squad will take a few years to mould into one that can challenge.

Never in dire straights? At this time in 1983 we were 18th in the league looking down the barrel. We are now 7th/8th well in touch with our pre-season target.

We didn't panic then. We shouldn't now just because we disrespect the name Burnley. I wonder if Liverpool win the league again they will focus on a 1 - 1 draw away to Brighton earlier this season

There isn't a manager in world football that can turn Tosun, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Davies, Bernard, Delph into world beaters. How many of our players would get into the City or Lpool team? Maybe 1 or 2 being generous.

A draw was probably a fair result today on another day we could have taken it with a bit more composure in front of goal. Blaming the manager every week for average performances from average players is tiresome.

I like what I'm seeing from this team.

We are now entering what has been anticipated as a tough run of games, compared to the "easy" last three matches. On paper, yes this is true but I've watched Leicester's last two matches and they were awful (defeats to Man U and Fulham). Arsenal have been poor the last three matches and although they beat United before that, they didn't impress me then either. Only Chelsea look a good outfit, currently.

Everton's record at the same stage in 83/84 Pld11 won 4 drawn 3 lost 4 scored 7 conceded 10 GD-3 Pts15, which is only slightly worse off than we are today and Kendall's team was 7 points better off than third from bottom Leicester City.

After the infamous Coventry City game on New Year's Eve 1983
Everton Pld 21 Won 6 Drawn 6 Lost 9 Scored 11 conceded 23 GD-12 Points 24. Still six points above third from bottom Notts County.

We'll see how the rest of December goes and I hope that we see a few unexpected wins for the Blues.

We rise to challenges.

Why is it we accepted and seemingly pine this type of decent start followed by poor October / November under Moyes followed by resurgence under Moyes but now we are outraged?

At least now we have better quality players and are trying to do better rather than be Burnley in Blue.

These players know they are going to be picked, week in, week out, at worst a role from the bench.

It has happened with Koeman, Sam, Silva and now Carlo, they keep on picking the usual suspects, and until these players are dropped and fresh blood come in, nothing will change.

I know we have not played the big boys in the cup, but each cup tie we have played on the front foot, and won with ease, as you would expect, the likes of Gordon and Nkoukou have been faultless, yet cannot even make the bench.

Gordon and Nkoukou have looked a decent combination playing on the left.

Just cannot get my head around how neither are getting game time, or at worst a stint on the bench.

Most baffling, playing Olsen and saying Pickford will definitely start the next game, before we even played Newcastle, what message is that sending out to the backup keeper, who can not even make the bench.

We have a decent team capable of finishing in the top 8 that with more quality in the transfer window maybe higher,but a poor squad to cover injuries and suspensions,and when you have a couple of players not playing up to their standards, today is what you can expect.

We play Chelsea next week who this summer spent 300 million in players and since 2010 has spent 5.59 billion on players,and this is the level we want to achieve,. This is the main reason why it is so hard to get into the top 6. Firing managers after 1 season is no way to improve a squad as every manager plays his own system, and the players are the ones who have to change as well. Bringing in a new manager will not make any player improve if he keeps having to play in different system and tactics.

A manager has to be given time to build a " SQUAD " not just a team and after previous managers this is going to take a lot more than 2 transfer windows. There has been a complete reshaping on transfers and youth development this season and as poor as some games are to even consider firing Ancelotti at this time will do more harm than good.

I didn’t watch today so I’m interested to see your views. To be honest, I didn’t watch as it was really early, and factoring in our injuries and our opponent I figured it would be a frustrating draw. It appears that others expected a showboating thrashing. As you say, this week to week every game is the be all and end all does nothing for one’s happiness or mental health. I think Carlo will get it right but realistically I expect some gloomy days this month. Does that mean I am accepting mediocrity and am content with it? No. It just means my rational analysis is that is likely to happen. Longer term I hope and expect better times.

What line up would actually entice you to watch the game?

Calvert-Lewin in the first half, Pope had no idea how he saved it.
James’ curler - decent tip around the post
Sigurdsson - regardless of what you think of his choice to go across the keeper it’s still a top save.

Danny O'Neill various. You are infuriating to those, like me, who want to see us playing like the greats, NOW. But you are right in the main. Patience, fucking patience. There may yet be rewards.

Ben Godfrey is going to be a top defender and I think we have a few of them at the club now with Branthwaite, Gibson, Nkounkou and Gibson.

Gomes showed some of his ability. On song, he plays in a way that is beautiful to watch. If only he could get his head right.

It's our faith and we have to keep it. Damn it.

Gordon should be at least on the bench as the usual suspects offer nothing.

I would agree that Richy isn't playing well, despite providing our assist today. He really needs a goal from open play. He hasn't shown his usual hustle the past 2 games either, even after the formation change back to 4-3-3.

Good point. Soucek is like a Cahill/Fellaini hybrid, and Bowen has some real skill. Money well spent by West Ham.

Then we judge.

Player ratings , can’t be arsed. All bang average

It was another game that makes me think 8th.

I’m left thinking “Why can no one raise their game ? “ Why can no one take games like this by the scruff of the neck ?”

We are missing intensity and urgency, the best way I can describe it is that we we are a passive team that will win a few when things go our way and lose and draw more when they don’t. We are not proactive enough and don’t have the ‘winning attitude’ intent to make things happen.

My partner's son paid £10 to watch Sunderland lose today, in League 1. Last week he paid a tenner to watch them draw and sack their manager afterwards. With financial restrictions in League 1 even if they get new ownership they can't spend their way to promotion. he thinks they could easily not get back to the EPL for 10 years. Kind of puts our deficiencies into perspective.

"Dr Pepper. Whats the worst that can happen ?"

I'm fairly sure that, if Kenny and Nkounkou were playing, we'd have got far more quality crosses in.

I never want to see Delph in a blue shirt again and would be happy if Sigurdsson and Iwobi followed him closely after.

Gordon and Nkounkou must be given a run. Can't be worse than a lot of this team.

Why are they frozen out?
Very disappointed with the hard-headedness of Don Carlo. I had great expectations again but looking similarly feeble.

Outside of Coleman and Digne our fullback options are limited. I agree, Nkounkou should be given a run but Kenny (sadly) is not up to it. I say that from having watched him at Schalke. A more defensive minded Iowbi. Headless chicken who you never really know what is going to serve up but generally a liability on the pitch.

I've watched the blues for over 60 years; my days of watching shite are over. I need to be entertained, in fact I demand it. ,P>I and many others my age have earned the right to become a bit picky. Let the kids learn from thier own experiences by all means, good luck to them.

Give him the ball to his feet and he will usually produce a good or brilliant pass which can create a goal but he poses a huge problem as to how to play effectively with ten men and accommodate such a luxury player. At present, we can't do it because we are missing our two full backs who provide him with such a great outlet.

Allan and Doucouré try to cover for him but they are also struggling to cover the defence in the absence of a defensive midfielder and this is why teams are cutting through our midfield.

The last player we had like James was Sheedy. Kendall bought Pat van den Hauwe who was so good he didn't need or want Sheedy to help him defensively and Reid and Bracewell were so good they didn't need help in controlling centre midfield and protecting the defence.

Carlo's team is not yet complete – he needs Gbamin back or a new signing to play defensive midfielder and allow Allan and Doucouré to play their natural game. He needs a strong right-back so that teams don't attack that flank. The three guys bought by Carlo will only show what they can really do once those two positions are filled.

That said, he really didn't help himself with his bizarre selections against Leeds and today (Delph – really??). A lot of us moan about a lack of tempo but, once Carlo gets the players for those positions, his team will be able to control a game without needing to run incessantly. He needs time but also needs to play younger players rather than tripe like Delph, Sigurdsson and Tosun.

I thought Iwobi and Godfrey did well today and Gomes looked much stronger and fitter, albeit his passing, like that of many others, lacked accuracy. Allan played his way through a poor start to be okay but our short passing has to improve – how many times did we pass to a Burnley player or pass straight out of play? It was good to see Godfrey have a go at James for playing him into trouble. I like what I see there, he will be good for us.

Maybe we will have more time on the ball next week... it will be an interesting game.

Never a trophy winning manager but credit where it's due, he gets limited teams organised quickly.

Yes, the club finished 6th to 7th. That was back in the day when it was easier to finish that high. It's a lot harder now that Manchester City was bought by a nation-state and spent billions on players.

Chelsea's billions have kept them cemented in the top 4. That was before Tottenham's owners figured out to run a much better modern-day organization. In fact, teams like Leicester and others have gotten smarter than us as well.

In fact, we are and have been a poorly-run club. When was the last time anyone outside of Merseyside praised our academy? Do we even have a real analytics department? The promotions department has been a failure for decades.

Liverpool for example, was bought by one of, if not the smartest ownership group in America. Their American flagship team has been the leader in baseball analytics and has won a handful of championships after not winning one for about 90 years – sound familiar? They will do nothing but win because that is what Fenway Sports does.

Our organization is a handful of guys who get in a room and talk. Liverpool's organization is a handful of guys making decisions backed by a room full of scientists and a plane load of scouts all brought together by a unifying philosophy that demands excellence in everything they do. They have a profile a player must fit to be eligible to play for them. We pretty much turn over personnel decisions to every different manager we hire.

What makes me angry is not the players who try hard but really are an island of misfit toys, it's not the manger who has been here less than a year and has vastly improved this team in only one window; it's the weak and directionless organization that is called Everton Football Club.

I read your constant criticism with the major culprit being Bill Kenwright, especially after a draw or defeat, and I thought maybe you had a good point on Kenwight, so I went back 1 year... then 2 years... then 3 years... going back 5 years and not once did I find him on a team sheet as keeper, full-back, midfielder, winger or striker.

It seems to me that you believe that, if Kenwright had resigned when Moshiri became the majority shareholder, the mangers we have fired before we signed Ancelotti would have had us in the top 4 competing in Europe.

I am not a Kenwright fan as the Kings Dock fiasco put me off, but since then we have an owner, who he brought in, an improved training facility at Finch Farm, plus planning for a new ground that is being financed.

Before you ask, I started supporting Everton in 1954 and one time I was a season ticket holder and 1 season managed all home and away games. I remember the good and the bad.

Shocking lack of urgency and drive and killer instinct.

It's hard to take positives other than we didn't loose, Pickford made a few good saves, we missed a few good chances.

Delph, well how many times has he completed 3 games back to back?That's him out till next year.

The lad's never gonna be fit. Time has come for putting Nkonkou and Gordon into this squad, to provide some drive and spirit, and hopefully if Gbamin is fully fit, he can add some belief and zip into this team.

Looks like a very tough end to this year, let's hope the spirit of Christmas can get some spirit and fire into this squad.

If today's to go by, then there's a massive challenge ahead with the fixtures over the next month.

Now Connolly was in that team and the best of them all was Jimmy McIlroy – great player, when football was worthy of the name!

My main area of concern is the fact that our two first-choice full-backs are out; they are arguably two of our most influential performers so far this season. We have a squad which includes specialist replacements (Kenny and Nkounkou), yet, rather than playing them, the manager chooses to alter the whole system to accomodate players who have never played where they are now being asked to play.

Now, I realise that I am probably in a minority with Kenny, but he is a right-back and he did have a whole season playing in Germany for a moderately successful team, yet he is completely ignored. On the one occasion he has come in, he wasn't awful, not great going forward but not horrendous overall.

On the other side, we have a young lad who is out of the same mould as Digne... okay, a little raw, but did really well against lower team opposition in the Carabao Cup.

There would seem to be absolutely no logic behind these choices.

My second area of concern is Iwobi. Lost count today of the number of times he was in a great position, he has the best one-touch striker in England, perhaps Europe, at the present time and yet every single cross is over hit or hits the first man. Woeful.

Finally, Allan. Goals against Leeds and today he is drawn to the ball, leaving huge amounts of space in the centre. Statistically, he is the best tackler in the Premier League and has a huge engine but positionally he is lacking, the key word for his position is 'holding' and at vital moments he goes missing.

I could mention the love affair with James but #105 and #109 do it well.

Will be an interesting window. Seen us linked with Isco and Khadeira, please God no. Whoever we get, we need pace and a willingness to press. Think it may be more interesting for who goes rather than who comes in.

Well, he's done a Moyes. Sits on a 1-0 lead – now getting beat. He's shite.

It was shite.

I respect the fact you have been a long-time fan.
On Bill Kenwright, it's very simple for me. Since he arrived, we have won nothing.

He hangs around the club poisoning everything. Now he needs to leave. This is rhetorical because I know he will never go.

I don't think anyone claimed that Willie Morgan was part of the Burnley title-winning team... certainly not I, as I only remember him from the 1970s with Man Utd and the Clarets and on International duty for Scotland.

Man Utd have lots of match winners who can turn a game; we don't yet and that's the gap we need to close between ourselves and the top teams.

You are correct about the January transfer window. We need a couple of players but I don't think we will offload anyone. Once again I stress, we will never finish in the top 6 if we keep firing managers. He needs his full tenure and we will finish top 6 this season.

Like a couple of others have already stated, I think the game was far from a snooze fest.

The xG was 2.2 for us, 0.92 for them, so on balance a 2-1 win for us. They had only one good chance in the game, for Wood on 41 minutes (rated at 0.45). Nothing else above 0.12. Brady's goal btw was rated at 0.03 (3%). We had chances of 0.6 and 0.59 (both for Calvert-Lewin, 2nd one the goal) and 0.39 (Gylfi).

Positives for me:

* It appears we will be going back to a 4-3-3, which worked very well for us early season.

* After an unsettling introduction at the club, Godfrey played surprisingly well at left back.

* Gomes is showing signs of being the player we brought in first season.

Don't give up your day job.

I'm sorry but quoting xG, cgi, or XTc means absolutley sweet fuck-all. Whatever happened to just watching the game and realising we were, for the most part, shite!

2-1 to us on xG? Well, what happened?

It's pretty clear that a better manager (Pochettino) would be getting better results out of this group of bottlers.

“Better manager Pochetino”? How do you define better? The person who has never won anything is best? The guy who's unemployed because he was sacked over a year ago is best? The guy who had one decent year at Southampton is best? Koeman must be almost as good.

Mission accomplished if you pick up 3 points, failure if you don't win, simple game, simple premise.

Delusional people on here who think this man is god need to get in the real world and have a good think at what he is all about.

Taking £11 million a year from your hard earned cash to give you this shite every week is what he's doing. Laughable conman. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I don't recall under Allardyce going so long without a clean sheet, winning one in seven, getting outclassed by two newly promoted teams (Leeds and second-half Fulham), putting Davies at right-wingback and Iwobi at left-wingback.

Anyone that says what we have seen from Carlo Ancelotti in the last 7 games is better than matches under Allardyce is lying to themselves.

I'm out. Bullshit.

We went 10 in a row without clean sheets under Sam in a run that began with a loss at mighty Bournemouth and ended with defeat at Burnley. We conceded four at Spurs and five at Arsenal along the way.

Just look at how much we've spent just to survive and then become a mediocre middle-of-the-table team in the Moshiri reign.

If Sunderland (anyone for that matter) had our money to spend, would they down there or be as mediocre as us?

This is the one thought that puts things into perspective for me.

I watched the game and posted before checking the stats (earlier in the thread) than in my view, using the Old Mk I Eyeball that although Burnley matched us, the least we deserved was a draw.

The stats confirmed that opinion; if anything I was a bit conservative.

Why is he a con man?

what is the going rate for a manager that has a proven track record of winning stuff?

Isn't Simeone the highest paid manager in world football?

Football is a game of opinions, and cliches. I think Pochettino would do a better job in the modern day, fast paced Premier League. It's just a hunch, I might be wrong, I'd be willing to give it a go.

Ancelotti's illustrious CV hasn't made a dent in trying to re-sculpt the culture of this Club, and he's been here 12 months, time-wise. Nowhere on his CV does it say ‘changed the culture of a fading giant, and coached average players into performing better' – so why are we expecting/hoping him to pull this off at 60, in his last dance as a club manager before settling for the Italy job?

We know we are not good enough to be in the top 4 or even 6 this year and so he has to be planning for the future. Delph and Sigurdson are not players for the future and so he has to be giving the youngsters like Gordon and Nkounkou a chance, so come next year we can realistically challenge. How are these youngsters ever going to get better if they are not given a chance?

We know what crap Delph and Sigurdson will dish up week in and week out so why persevere with these deadbeats. Hopefully this is the last time we see Delph in a first team strip.

Today was criminal not having Nkounkou on the bench as we know Delph cannot last any longer than 5 minutes. Letting Moise Kean go was also such a bad piece of business. If this guy is going to succeed, he needs to do it in the Premier League – not some substandard French league.

Looking at next week's feature, at least Lampard has persevered with the youngsters. I know he has also spent a lot of money as well but look how well his young team are doing. If Carlo does not get his act together for next week, it could be embarrassing!!

I remember on here when guys would hammer Martinez for playing either Naismith or Barkley out of position on the left because we hadn't many alternatives.

You could actually make the case that Richarlison and Dominic are best as a pairing and, if so, the manager has actually devised a system where he has managed to play all ten outfield players in an unfavourable position. That takes some doing...

Can I remind you that we actually did beat Fulham, whilst playing crap in the 2nd half? Unlike Leicester who got done by them last week.

“Nowhere on his CV does it say ‘changed the culture of a fading giant, and coached average players into performing better' – so why are we expecting/hoping him to pull this off at 60?”

Andrew, that's the very point for me! Nail on the head. I'm one of probably the many who don't expect him to do it with “average players” as I think you rightly call (many of) them. <

The vision as far as I was concerned was Carlo plus a decent number of really quality signings. The signings themselves will take time to happen. The bricks they built Rome with were in short supply.

I watched him play against Man Utd and, although he was enthusiastic, he was one of PSG's poorest players.

Well, at least he's supposed to be a great tactician and understand football and footballers. At the moment, granted with a poor squad, he's not even getting the basics right. With poor team selections, tactics and substitutions, he is making quite a lot of fans sick of watching Everton.

Injury made him change tactics today and the attitude of the players hardly changed from one poor half to the next poor one.

I'm not sure why we'd expect his run of bad form to change.

Let's hope some solid gold bricks arrive in January, at least two, or it's going to be more of the same.

How many bricks (through the windows) is this owner going to bankroll?

The set-up of the team today was utterly inept and the fact that the coach was driven to make changes is concerning. Carlo has won lots of stuff. In my view, he won't be winning any more. The way we play the ball around the back is just utterly fucking lamentable.

Next transfer window? One after? I would be happy to see the implementation of a plan. To see a sign, a bit of blue sky. Today was, considering the investment in the coach, his team and his squad, fucking awful. Is this the best Mr Moshiri can buy? Probably... anyway, we are stuck with it.

“The way we play the ball around the back is just utterly fucking lamentable”.

Andy, it seems Carlo is equally unimpressed judging by his reactions, caught by the camera and observed by the TV commentator.

It can get a bit black and white here sometimes. Wondered when somebody would pull out the old "fraud" remark, directed at Carlo.

It's possible for us to play and neither be brilliant nor shite.

Carlo's fuckwittery is a cleverly disguised plan to get the "money men to loosen the purse strings"...?!

We're not in free fall because of said fuckwittery. It's because we don't even have a proper "analytics department".

And his fuckwittery isn't really fuckwittery because, if you care to check, "our xG was 2.2".

I'm so glad I came back to this thread because, if I didn't, I would probably still be labouring under misapprehension that Carlo's fuckwittery is actually fuckwittery.

However, some fans complain about our dreaded injury curse; well, it actually brought us into that grey area you spoke of as it forced Carlo to play his scapegoat midfielder and system he tried desperately to ditch, forcing a few players into more natural positions.

Thank fuck for Fabian Delph as he was the architect of us getting a point.

Everton, average players, a budget to manage, youngsters more hungry and possibly talented than his weekly picks, etc etc.

Sorry to say it, but he is actually out of his depth, and it shows week after week.

And, btw, he “earned” £200,000 this past week, including today.

It seems even on your stats that there is little difference between the worst of Allardyce and the worst of Ancelotti. The only major difference is that Ancelotti has supposedly got better players and should be doing far better.

Another difference is that, for some reason, a lot of fans are giving Ancelotti a very easy ride.

We beat Fulham... but only due to a freak missed penalty. They also outclassed us in the second half. Yes... Fulham.

He's not alone at the top as Guardiola in his biography said, if you want a side to get into Champions League places, you don't put youngsters in – like we've seen with Foden, who's been around for at least 3 years in the Man City set up, without been given a run. You unfortunately could say likewise with Gordon when Richarlison was out: not a sniff, not on the bench, not in the squad.

You've got to ask the question: Why is our academy failing? They've only produced Tom Davies in the last 10-12 years, the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Holgate, were bought in as 17-, 18-year-olds. Just what is the Academy, Unsworth doing??? We've heard of Broadhead, Baningime, Adeniran, Browning, Dowell, Williams – all comimg through... but none ever did, and we didn't get decent money or any of them.

So Ancellotti sees no-one at all coming through, and he's been left with the likes of Sigurdsson, Delph, Tosun, Bernard, Gomes (albeit a crocked one), and a midget of a keeper etc. It's going to take him a few years to get his squad together. But what is worrying to me, is the regular, weekly, changes to the team, the back 4 are changed every game, the straight in-your-face fact that 2 in the centre midfield is not enough, and looking at them play, there is no identity, no set playing style, no pressing, no pace. Without Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison (when he decides to turn up) and James's creativity, we would be languishing in the bottom 6, not striving to be in the top 6.

Same old conundrum – how do we get into Europe with what we've got? And, if we don't, we start all over again as Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Digne go looking for Champions League sides.

Ancelotti must be wondering what he's done to deserve this, but again he's not soft, he knows his reputation will give him 2-3 years and probably a chest of monies for transfers to offset the dearth of talent coming up through the ranks. Let's hope he can deliver – but I'm not sure he's got the stamina or the determination to see it through. If he totally fails, he's yesterday's man. He's probably still got the acclamation of attracting a good Champions League side to give him a job.

Also, "the fans are giving Ancelotti a very easy ride"? Really?

I see a lot of discontent. A lot. A lot of anger against the mistakes of Ancelotti. Not believing he should be sacked immediately doesn't equal giving him an easy ride.

Let's bring back Big Sam and back him up with a dream team of Dunc, Unsy and the kids. That will sort it.

I saw us doing good things today. With Allan and Doucouré, we have the building blocks (not the right here right now) of a very good midfield.

Thats just my take, but I'd happily give way to fuckwittery and see where that gets us.

Over to so-called fuckwittery.

We are one point off our target. Still very much in touch where we can realistically expect to be and it's not even January.

Kendall must go.

What I do know, though, that no matter what system you play or what tactics you use, when players play poorly I, along with everyone else on here, can see it and are naturally pissed off.

We look, and have done since we went downhill quickly, slow and lacking in movement and ideas. No amount of tactics makes players pass badly, or cross badly. Tactics wouldn't stop me moving into space and/or carrying the ball forward and attacking with speed and aggression. So why the fuck can't our players seem to do that?

I watched the City game after ours just so I could enjoy some football because I'm certainly not enjoying ours.

Moyes left in 2013 after being in the job too long for a lot of people. Since then, we have the following who have been variously described:

Martinez – bullshitter; got rid of after 140 games.
Koeman – arrogant and aloof; got rid of after 58 games.
Allardyce – dinosaur long-ball merchant; got rid of after 26 games.
Silva – out of his depth; got rid of after 60 games.
Ancelotti – over the hill has-been; so we should get rid after 35 games?

What exactly are people expecting? We have a mish-mash squad of average players (or below-average players in a lot of cases) given large, long-term contracts who aren't going anywhere whilst we are paying them what we are. They are in part the product of chronic mismanagement at boardroom and the constant changing of managers after short spells.

Ancelotti needs time to develop his own squad – not polish all the turds of previous regimes. Yes, we are going through a bad patch but his win rate since taking over is 46% – which is the highest of any manager we've had since Howard Kendall left in 1987 – and is the same win rate as Harry Catterick.

Credit to the squad for hanging in to our target early in the season when we are missing key players.

If we were playing well, but dropping points that would be one thing, but we're not playing at all well, and we have an upcoming fixture list that would test the best of sides.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to believe that our next half-dozen results will be any better than our last half-dozen. Perhaps, Carlo and the team will raise their game against those better sides, but I don't believe that they can and that's the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Look at the top six and it has that oh so familiar look about it. Everton had an opportunity to give themselves a cushion going into this tough part of the season, with something to defend; instead, we are struggling to keep pace and we are faced with ending another year, with our hopes dashed and we will have to wait for another rotation of the squad, as the 'stars' seek pastures new, and the manager has to rebuild a team – "Déjà Vu" should be on the front of our shirts instead of a sponsor.

Can't wait till our side looks more like this, after Ancelotti's brought ‘his' type of players in.

Ancelotti doesn't even operate close to Martinez in his first 30 or so league games. After this weekend, we will be clinging on to the top half of the table before a December and January from hell, where our win machine will be facing top teams where his record so far is worse than Marco Silva's.

This excuse express and manipulation to big up this incumbent is unreal. Nice idea to throw in his Carabao victories to make him look slightly better.

If you rate this manager and think he is the man for the job, fair play to you... but please don't try to convince us this guy has done a good job so far.

On one hand, we are being told the team played poorly. Kevin counters with statistics that suggest otherwise. The stats are dismissed as only the results matter. Though Ian now flips that argument and criticizes the performance for the Fulham game we won.

Dave meanwhile has a pop at Carlo while acknowledging a poor squad with poor attitudes. Which would seem to support the argument that the squad has been the root of our problems with all our managers. But somehow Carlo is still on the hook.

The legendary Big Dunc got a win and a draw despite being dominated by opponents but no-one says “He was lucky.” He apparently is allowed to be judged purely on his two results. Meanwhile, the same people having a pop at Carlo sing the praises of Unsworth, who has produced from the ranks not one single good first-team player. It's madness.

In any other area of life, I'd be called an expert with that kind of lifetime dedication to one pursuit.

Tactics can make players play poorly. Case in point, the first 30 minutes. We had 2 midfielders of which one is given the option to press and roam. There were times where there wasn't an Amber shirt within 40 metres of Allan. Whenever we lost the ball, Burnley just had to outplay one guy in midfield.

People talk about the ponderous passing in defence. Who were they passing to? More than half of our team are in defence. 3 are in attack. It's Allan and Doucouré vs the opposition.

The charge in formation produced our best passing move instantly, Doucouré eventually playing in Calvert-Lewin.

We still had limitations after 30 minutes. Godfrey did well defensively but I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees he just has to give the ball to a better player when he receives it. We're a player down in possession. We could solve that by picking an actual left-back.

Generally, I'll bow to Ancelotti's experience. But if it's obvious, then it's obvious. He's getting it wrong. Do you have any confidence in predicting what he'll do v Chelsea?

On a serious note, we are very much in touch with where we need to be in terms of what we wish to achieve this season. At this stage, stay in touch. The run in is from February to May.

We used to afford Moyes this, why can we not do likewise for Carlo? Other than people that just don't want Carlo and wanted Duncan.

You say Chris isn't comparing like to like – then you compare Carlo's first 30 games with Roberto Martinez. Carlo inherited a team that had flirted with relegation in successive seasons. Martinez inherited a team that had consistently finished between 5th and 8th.

James and Richarlison were carried today and have been for the previous 4 games. Generally, we are not working hard enough, with or without the ball. That equals sluggish and easy to play against.

I'm guilty of it, bringing Moyes up in posts. He was the most successful manager since Joe Royle. Tells us a lot about our success in recent times. We are bored of being mid-table. A glimpse of success and realism kicks in and the team prove that. I love having Carlo at our club but realism is kicking in. His style and methods are for Champions League clubs.

I and all must remember our owner gave Carlo a 4½-year contract. Our owner knew this was a long-term plan. It's us that expected success sooner. Let's give Carlo at least 2 full seasons before calling for his head.

My point was not to big up Roberto but I'm worried about the next 2 months and don't want to be told how good we have been when clearly we have not. Don't forget, Roberto was working on a budget, unlike Carlo.

I think we are being conned out of seeing young talent coming through and are being given old past-it so-called players taking the piss every week.

Carlo picks the team so therefore is conning people who pay to watch and get given this drivel every week. Your hard-earned cash goes toward all the wages, I presume – not just his – and I for one am just making the point that I think it is unacceptable.

I understand he has a good CV but not giving young talent a run-out just makes me wonder what he sees? Granted there are other managers on more money but it is a ridiculous amount if you don't deliver the goods.

I'm not wrong, I think you've just misunderstood what I posted, mate.

I didn't say "we" can't call out Ancelotti's tactics; I said I am unable to – big difference.

From the 35th to the 60th minute, the introduction of Gomes (who I said should start in a 4-3-3 today) helped us control the game and pin them back. The rest of the game we didn't apply as much pressure as we should've on them, and we could even have lost it at the end.

Saying that, we could've also have won it if Sigurdsson hit it in one of the corners.

If recent history is to be a benchmark for the league placings, it's very rare for an unfancied club to break into the top six with a good second-half to the season.

After 11 games last season, the top six comprised of Liverpool, Man City, Leicester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Sheffield United. Final placings: Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Leicester City, and Spurs. The previous season, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, and Bournemouth were the top six after 11 games, it ended with Man Utd replacing Bournemouth in the top six.

Therefore, it would be most likely that, if Everton don't get unbelievably good results in the next half-dozen league games, we can forget about qualifying for Europe via the league placings and all our hopes will rest upon the vagaries of the cup competitions.

Moyes was given time because he had a plausible reason for Everton failing to achieve – because the club wasn't in a position to invest the money to build a side that was required to move the club up a notch; he still overachieved by most people's reckoning.

Fairly or not, Carlo is being measured by higher standards because money has been invested in the squad; not his fault that he inherited such an expensive but ultimately limited squad, it is his fault that he is adding to the problems rather than finding solutions to them.

What other manager over the last 10 years has given youth a chance at Everton?

Are our young players of today good enough?

"Simplicity" of course is based on certain "givens" when a team takes to the pitch. They are heart, fitness and effort, in spades. Add skill and you might just be in contention for a trophy.

If anyone else can identify why or who is at the top of our club during the decades during which our heart, fitness and effort have continually diminished, the "simple" game having perished accordingly, I'd like to know.

Chris is absolutely correct in stating that stat. You just don't like Carlo and want him gone, end of.

You make a great point regarding decision-making. You only have to look at the respective CEOs. Up until last month, the RS employed Peter Moores – a businessman who previously worked and made his name in Microsoft – and then you have our CEO, Miss Dynamite, who is nothing more than a glorified PA and reminds us every so often how EitC is doing well. The disparity in roles is far and wide.

I think I know, it's on the tip of my tongue. Fat guy, cheapskate, bullshits a lot... Oliver Hardy?

Why not just write 'Leviticus'? We'll all know what you mean.

In the Bible, a scapegoat is one of two kid goats. As a pair, one goat was sacrificed (not a scapegoat) and the living “scapegoat” was released into the wilderness, taking with it all sins and impurities. The concept first appears in Leviticus, in which a goat is designated to be cast into the desert to carry away the sins of the community.

We've had a relatively high turnover in terms of the first 11, with 3 guaranteed starters plugged straight in and a 4th regular now, in Godfrey. This is going to cause some disruption, particularly as we've basically replaced our midfield.

I think Ancelotti made an error moving away from 4-3-3 and not utilizing the promising youngsters we possess (assuming they're fit).

A team that is playing an unfamiliar formation and with many changes in personnel is going to lack cohesion. In game terms, this is reflected in poor positioning, lack of tempo, lack of flowing moves etc and this is what we've seen.

I'm hopeful that we've now binned this experimentation and stick with the setup that we had success with initially. Chelsea will be too strong but we have a decent shot against Leicester and Arsenal.

Ancelotti had made mistakes but he isn't some lightweight like Silva or a route one merchant like Allardyce, he knows how to put together a winning team. Yes, these were better players but the same principles apply. If it were easy, anyone could win with good players and most still fail. Generally, Carlo succeeded.

If we sack him, then what? Appointing Dunc is so obviously not the answer, I can't believe I'm actually having to type it out. Who else? The good managers on the rise are not looking at us, not yet anyhow. So we'd be gambling again, like we did with all our previous post-Moyes appointees. And with more players added under Ancelotti that the new bloke may not fancy.

This sort of lunacy gets teams relegated.

As I've highlighted, Ancelotti inherited a shit-show mish-mash of a squad of the four previous managers with players the club can't shift. Despite this, the fact remains that the win percentage I quoted is indisputable.

Does this mean that I am happy with how the squad are performing and some of Ancelotti's selections? – No, it does not.

Do I believe that he has got everything right? – No, I do not.

Do I want to see him dumped and the club getting a 6th manager in 7 years to try and get a tune from the squads of 5 previous managers with 2 or 3 of his own players added in before we inevitably dump him after another 30/40 games? – No, I do not.

Matches W D L Goals Points PPM
73 38 19 16 127:73 133 1.82

They came 2nd in the 2018-19 season and in the 2019-20 season, when he got sacked, they where 7th after not winning in 9 until they beat Genk 4-0. Napoli where the only team to beat Liverpool in 90 mins in the Champions League (2-0) and he had guided Napoli into the knock-out stages of the Champions League. He got sacked because him and the team refused to go on a week training camp organised by the owner.

These are the stats when he was in charge of Bayern:

Matches W D L Goals Points PPM
60 43 8 9 161:54 137 2.28

So for some poster to come on here and say "Well, he got sacked from his last two jobs" is just weak. Look what he did in those jobs before commenting. He got sacked by Bayern after 6 games sitting in 3rd, 3 points behind Dortmund and after being beat 3-0 by PSG. He had won 4, drawn 1, lost 1, don't make out he got sacked because he wasn't up to it – he was sacked because of politics inside the clubs.

We will never know if they are good enough until we see them play. What I am trying to say is there must be some younger players in or around the squad who would surely give us better performances than what we are getting. There haven't been many that have come through for quite a while but we keep hearing whispers of some so let's see them.

I am a firm believer in giving youngsters a crack at it, you just never know – we might unleash a real diamond. I would much rather watch a young up-and-coming kid rather than some old past-it kidder trying to fool us. This is my opinion, of course.

The “play Nkounkou, Gordon etc they couldn't be worse” argument is one I'm not buying. Because I've heard it all before. “Kids couldn't be worse than the ageing Horne and Ebrell” – Oster and Co were worse. Dowell was worse than Mirallas, Simonsen worse than Southall, Cadamarteri worse than Amokachi, Barkley worse than Osman, Deulofeu worse than Kilbane, Kenny worse than Coleman, and so on.

The grass isn't greener. It's either yellow and dying – or it never grew to begin with.

Some of the names you mention are right but they can't all be crap, surely to fucken goodness! If this is the mentality of the supporters and club alike, then we are truly screwed.

What did the Lord, Ellis, Longson, Swales, Ridsdale (and other chairman wankers) actually deliver to "their" clubs, given the first had the prospective (soon relegated) team of the decade, the next faffed about to the extent his recent European Cup winners (I wish!) were relegated, the next oversaw League Champions to relegation (seems familiar), the next never failed to spout total bullshit about what he said at the time was his "destiny" club (like the Lord and Swales did), whilst the last paid out way more than his club could afford for fuck all and all but twenty years of football obscurity.

Why, for Christ's sake (a blue blood if ever their was one) do we continue to have Kenwright anywhere near our club?

Seriously.

Having said all that, I still see the potential for at least a reasonable team. The main problem is that we do not have sufficient backup when injuries occur.

I would still like to see Godfrey play central defence. Other than that, why did we even sign him?

I was one fan who felt that Iwobi played well... I still think he has potential but would benefit from coaching.

One regular observation where we are extremely strong is that our players have the uncanny ability to pass to the opposition.

XxG over e = mc² plus 0,001 for every corner and half that for a short corner, obviously, gives you the answer that you don't play full-backs. This is why we use statistics! Alf Ramsey got it in 1966 but put the decimal point too far forward and ended up without wingers.

Now, does anyone know the equation for working out who the defensive midfielder in front of Brian Labone was? I know, but I'm from old school thinking that the midfield should support the forwards when attacking and drop back when not in possession. I know, but they didn't have GCSEs when I went to school, just GCEs.

I mean why is Mathew Pennington still getting games? He should have, in my opinion, been sold to a lower league by club now. Jao Virginia is another one. He should have staked a claim as 2nd choice keeper by now, especially with all the fanfare he came with.

If there is one player who should be in the first team and playing now, it's Branthwaite (once again only IMO). That lad is the complete centre-half and needs game time. If he's not going to get it, then loan him or sell him – it's simple.

Moise Kean was the prime example of a young player being treated badly by Everton. He should have played loads at Under-23 before the first team, to get used to the hussle and bustle of the league. Maybe a loan to the Championship, like Lukaku got. He should not have been given 5 mins here and there and he should never have been treated by Ferguson the way he was.

If they are good enough, they should come to the top. Our youth set-up needs changing. But first, Carlo needs a couple of systems and needs to stick with them.

To get anything from Chelsea, we have to be way better than recent performances. Chelsea are sharp, mobile, driven, motivated, and bursting with energy. They have class young players and a class bench and squad to choose from.

Against Chelsea (and forthcoming difficult matches), I think we have to be positive to stand any chance. A totally defensive set-up will yield nothing.

Back to the 4-3-3 and full intensity is possibly the best strategy:

Olsen
Kenny Keane Godfrey Nkounkou
Doucouré Gomes Allan
Rodriguez Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Play Gomes in a deeper holding role and the more mobile, combative Allan left-sided to help cover Nkounkou. Godfrey in for Mina as his pace and mobility compared to Mina will be useful cover also. Kenny is back in if Seamus is still not ready.

Rodriguez on until he tires, then Iwobi to replace him.

Massive responsibility for Gomes in that role, but tell him to step up to the mark and pass it intelligently and quickly so he doesn't get caught on the ball. Tell the forwards, as soon as André gets the ball, get ready, it's coming your way.

I am not optimistic by any means by this solution, but I am trying to find a way of how we can get back to top-6 form.

Any better ideas?

The Premier League changes with such a pace these days. People like Pep and "He who must not be named" have led the way. Never before have teams concentrated so hard on forcing the opposition into errors.

If you can get a side pressing well. You are okay. If you can force transition with good players, you are in business. Carlo has signed decent midfield players, but his tactics often leave them outnumbered and overrun. We don't press. We are pressed.

I hope I'm wrong when I say this old dog doesn't look motivated enough to learn new tricks. But, to me, he looks too laid back. We are miles from challenging in the league and I think he knows it.

Carlo will not have liked what happened to him at Anfield in the FA Cup. He will not want a repeat. He will know the limitations of his players this time around and he will make provisions.

I am convinced The Professor's hunger for silverware will return for the competitions he actually has a chance of winning. I expect his big match mentality to be like an old boxer's punch – the last thing to desert him.

One thing is certain. His growing number of critics will be eating out of his hands if they are scrambling around for Wembley tickets later in the season.

This manager has inherited as good a squad as any of his predecessors, was backed to fix the problem areas, and is rated the seventh highest in the division.

His 46% is an indisputable fact? Yes. Last season, when we played all the teams, it was 38%. Also an indisputable fact.

We now have played all the poor teams bar Sheffield Utd this season and his win rate against the teams we are to play before parity is 20%, another indisputable fact.

After everyone has played 11 games, we are mid-table despite these dream fixtures and no European football, a further indisputable fact.

Carlo took over a Napoli team who finished four points off the title and left them mid-table. Guess what... an indisputable fact.

Yes, Chris, you want this manager to get time and I'm sure he will get that as long as our position doesn't become precarious. As I said, trying to present something as being favourable when we are struggling against mediocre teams is just a little hard to swallow right now. If Carlo is operating at a 46% win rate come 25 January, we will all be absolutely delighted.

Lampard is not a great manager but his squad is exceptional. We'll face wave upon wave of attacks. Maybe Carlo can sit this one out and let Dunc take the reins, like he did last season.

Nothing to add except get well soon Lucas & Seamus.

Official stats:
Possession - Home 41% - Away 59%. (Alan @140 take note)
Shots - Home 8 - Away 13
Shots on Target - Home 3 - Away 6
Corners - Home 8 - Away 4 Well defended and no real threats from set-pieces today
Fouls - Home 6 - Away 9 ditto corners.

We should have won. The signs are there but, my god, we are crying out for a proper leader.

Mostly fair comments on the thread on all sides of the debate.

I retain my view that we actually played well yesterday despite the disappointing result. I think that's been an increasingly common trait over recent decades in that many struggle to look beyond a result.

The manager is working with a squad that is a collection of all-sorts, the result of a non-strategy in the transfer market. That happened over years and will take years to fix.

We improved the quality of player this season (please someone make a case that Allan, Rodriguez and Doucouré are not improvements on Sigurdsson, Davies and whoever else we used to chuck in there last season). We are without our first-choice full-backs, who are so important to us. But we've stayed in touch.

I don't care too much for past statistics, it's about this season. Everton came from literally nowhere to win the league in 1985 and look at Leicester. It can be done even if the odds are against you. And I'm talking being hopeful of finishing 6th by the way before anyone thinks I'm in complete Lala land!!

So, the much-needed improvements, quite rightly, focussed on the starting 11 in the summer. Beyond that, we are very much back to last season.

Understandably, the manager gets criticised if the selection and tactics are wrong. But he is using what he has at his disposal.

I feel we have improved as a team, but squad building remains a work in progress. That's not an excuse, that's just how it is and where we are.

For those who just don't like him, relax. Carlo is only here for another 2 or 3 seasons. But I for one believe he can make more of a significant change during that time than recent predecessors.

And I support Everton by the way, not individual managers or players. They come and go. We are always here.

I couldn't have put it better myself. It's hard to stay calm being a blue. I can understand the frustration on here though.

We played well the 2nd half I thought and yes, we coulda shoulda woulda won it: Sigurdsson shoulda scored.

But “sublime”? No, my friend, but equally not as bad as some are making out.

I can see why Carlo was “satisfied” publicly but I know he isn't happy with that first half.

I still believe Tosun, Sigurdsson and Delph should be nowhere near the squad. I know the chances of getting rid of them are zero. Marcel and Carlo letting Walcott and Kean go, both playing with renewed confidence, didn't make sense; they offered a hell of a lot more from the bench.

Chelsea next week; if Coleman is back, it'll definitely test his hamstring, but if he's not available, Iwobi will be destroyed. He can't tackle, and is not a full-back. He has to play Holgate if he has no faith in Kenny. He has to put Nkounkou into left-back, he couldn't be any worse than Delph. If Carlo has no faith in him, why not get Danny Rose in January, on a free; wouldn't he do a job, until Digne is back?

You're right: Sigurdsson should've scored – but he didn't have much time to react (and this is Sigurdsson, remember), Doucouré could've done better following up on the Calvert-Lewin chance that hit Pope's knee, and it's a shame James's curling effort was not struck with a bit more power.

Pickford and Pope both did their respective jobs equally well on the day and I guess my main disappointment was the number of high balls we lumped into (and over) their area when keeping it low or on the deck seemed the best way through. I don't think we won one header in their area, not unsurprisingly.

Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea have not been afraid to introduce young homegrown talent.

At the start of last season, a large number of ToffeeWebbers thought that Calvert-Lewin was at best a Championship player but, with perseverance on his part and patience on the part of successive managers, he has developed into a top striker.

If the two young fullbacks we have were given similar support, who knows how they will develop.

It's true what you say and I was disappointed that Delph was preferred to Nkounkou yesterday. It would have been a good opportunity for him to get some much-needed experience. ,P.Kenny is better than he has shown this season, I thought he would be staking his claim. This season was the moment for him to step up.

The trouble is playing the wingback system against Chelsea is also fraught with danger. It will be interesting to see what line-up Carlo goes for.

Well, for a start he packed one of them off to Paris. He has really made use of him?

Before a ball was even kicked yesterday, Ancelotti had forfeited the right to a sympathetic hearing to the claim that he was "using the players at his disposal". In short. He bottled it.

Instead of using the vastly superior players at his disposal to impose his will, he concerned himself more with the opposition. He sacrificed a footballer for a lighthouse in an attempt to try to stem the areal threat of Burnley's journeymen – something you would expect from the manager of the Dog n Duck.

When Niels Nkounkou burst on to the scene, ToffeeWeb lit up like a Christmas tree. "Carlo Fabntastico's pulling power has drawn another gem". It's a little embarrassing seeing supporters now backing Carlo for not playing him, even when he is the only fit left-back at the club.

Energy and skill traded for a clapped out old duffer who broke down at the thought of breaking into a sprint... Yeah, great use of the players at his disposal.

Carlo will stick with his under-performing favourites. Anyone whose face doesn't fit can find himself out in the cold as quickly as you can say Anthony Gordon.

We were playing against a group of players who have little more than hard work and willingness to offer. Yet our goalkeeper was head and shoulders our best player.

As Ciaran said way back up there, if you think we played well, you are very easily pleased.

For Everton in the Premier League era, unfortunately, this is the way. A shambles from top to bottom. I despair at this rotten club, and hate myself for bothering.

We ended up having played 62 games that season (compare that with our average over the last 5 seasons of just 46).

Iwobi never had a bad game but he was very wasteful at times, and again how easy it is to play against Everton because they make the pitch so big?

Delph getting injured helped us massively, and although I felt Mina really grew into the game, him and Keane could never be a good partnership unless we go back to the tactics we used after the restart, and even then I've got my reservations.

I said earlier, Tony, without wishing the guy any ill whatsoever, I would be pleased if we never see Delph pull on an Everton shirt again.

Iwobi confuses me. You just never know what is going to happen when he has the ball. I suppose a plus from that is if our own players and fans don't, what chance have the opposition got?!!

The main pluses I take from yesterday were the centre-backs and the midfield 2, with Gomes looking good as he grew into the game as well. I still fear the injury is affecting him psychologically – it's how he caused the VAR review into the tackle on the Burnley player. If you watched carefully just before, he bottles it and pulls out.

Big shout for Jordan Pickford too. I've been critical as much as anyone, but he showed what he is good at yesterday. Still needs to command the box better and take control of situations, but shot-stopping, he demonstrated how good he can be.

Richarlison had an off-day. Dominic wasn't at his best but still got on the scoresheet. We miss the full-backs, which is a major problem for us right now. But I agree with Geoff, it's not the only reason for the recent run of poor form (I wouldn't call it demise).

Digne in particular is a huge loss. I would like to see Nkounkou play next fixture. I'm well documented on Kenny and having seen him play for both Everton and Schalke, I just don't think he is good enough and, sadly yes, not better than putting a makeshift Iwobi or Godrey in there.

In a squad short of quality, that must have taken some great tactics to have him leading scorer at this point, coming from a team out of form because, when the ball is at his feet with time, nothing happens.

Forget players that are not here or playing, ie, Gordon, Kean... If they were good enough, there's no doubt he will play them. The manager comes from winning stock.

The players we have are stuttering too much and yes, there's tweaks required. We were too good for Burnley, it was easy to see that, but also easy to see we lack quality and cutting edge.

In a group chat, we were screaming after 20 mins how long we take to get the ball to James in space.

Until more quality arrives, he's stuck with a lack of quality – it's that simple and as frustrating as it looks when Kean is scoring for PSG (he still looks lost in games though), I ask myself: Would I take any of these Ligue 1 defenders he is scoring against though?

There's two sides to every Carlo story and he's not gonna toss a player aside if he trusts they are worthy of a place.

I think you were referring to me in part of your post, which is fair enough if it was me. I was having a go at Carlo because he isn't making a lot of sense to a lot of fans with the way he is setting the team up, selection, tactics and substitutions.

Sorry for repeating myself, one of my main moans was that the team came out yesterday for the second half and there was no change, that was noticeable, in the attitude of most of the players. Had Carlo said anything to them, told them to do something different? It didn't look like it.

That was the disappointing thing: the attitude of the players. The manager should have changed that attitude verbally or manually. He must have been as happy with the team at half time as he appeared to be at the end of the game, which stinks. How could he be happy with that performance against any team?

To rub it in, we played against a team second from bottom, who had scored four goals all season. They were at least as good as Everton yesterday, which isn't saying much.

Your hero Duncan Ferguson is the reason Moise Kean is not at the club. The lad wanted out after he was humiliated by Dunc.

There are many reasons to scrutinise Ancelotti but failing to keep hold of an ineffective striker is not one.

When I think back to the toxic and divisive discussion around the Allardyce period (myself included), this is a great place to come once more regardless of result.

He brought in 3 top players pre-season, he's inherited shite and is trying his best until he can get rid, he has totally changed Digne's and Calvert-Lewin's performances which were shite under the last manager, and I truly think he will change things given time.

He tries players in strange positions because he doesn't know them well enough. In January, he will buy a couple more class players and we will see improvement.

Love the blues.

As we see, Carlo knows the problem areas he has to fix, but it's going to take a bit of time.

The same players, still stinking the club out, but for whatever reason, they still manage to appear in the matchday squads.

Ferguson is getting a good battering for double-subbing Kean; that limited time he was on the pitch, he probably covered 5 yards, if that. No movement, no closing down just a lone figure with his hands on his thighs, blowing out of his backside. Okay, it hardly gave the lad confidence, but Dunc made a decision to try and hold out for the result and, in hindsight, he got a draw

Koeman destroyed and put a wedge between the first team and youth team, not allowing them to mix, train or eat with the first team.

Silva was stubborn beyond belief, never changed anything, never worked on defending set-pieces, and his zonal marking also playing square pegs in round holes with the same players.

When Dunc took over, he had 2 fit midfielders, the bench was filled with defenders and attackers. This was when the likes of Holgate was asked to play in midfield, because we were so depleted in that area. He made mistakes but he never stuck with the same starting 11. If things were not going to plan, some of the youngsters were given a chance.

I am not calling for Dunc to step in; what I am saying is he understands what Everton Football Club stands for. He got the players playing for the shirt again, he got the fans onboard, he got passion from the players and was not afraid to try some youngsters.

Now we are going down the same route as the previous managers, same old faces starting or on the bench, week-in & week-out. A promising left-back not even making the squad, a player that had the balls to approach Carlo and ask the question...

At any other club, managers would be saying "Gordon is young, he is hungry, I like that in a player, I understand why he approached and asked the question." Not Carlo, Gordon from that day has been excluded from the matchday squad.

We cannot keep playing players out of position, players who are clearly not fit. Something has to change. These players know they are not going to get dropped. Pickford knew it was only for one game he would miss, what message did that send out to Olsen, knowing no matter how well he played, he would be dropped for the next game?

I really hope at the very least that Nkounkou is in the squad for our next game, I am afraid the next time we will see Gordon will be in the Carabao Cup, if we are lucky.

I agree. For a man of Carlo's experience, he should be making a better fist of it. I can't remember one game where we have dominated.

We are like chalk and cheese from match to match. I know Carlo has won umpteen titles and cups but what I am watching is wretched football. His insistence with 3 at the back just seems to be a stubborn "I know best" idea...

Also, why has Olsen been left out of the squad? I think we can all agree he played well at Newcastle but now he's not even in the squad!

And surely Anthony Gordon is at least worthy of a place on bench? I am quickly losing patience and confidence in Carlo.

Maybe Kenwright, wouldn't have been able to keep hold of Everton if it wasn't for the sale of Rooney? But you wasn't to know this, Bob!

RIP Bob, I've just heard the news now, and I'm gutted🙏

I do think he makes more subtle changes than he's given credit for and for everyone (including me) who questions Delph at left-wingback, Iwobi at right-wingback and full-back has done a good job.

I would hate having James in my team. When loosing the ball or defending, there's no real desire to win the ball back, put a tackle in, and I hate the fact he goes to ground pretending to put a slide tackle in. He'll be sent off soon for such silly behaviour for endangering an opponent.

But his quality on the ball, his vision and passing are far superior to anyone else – it shows how poor our midfielders are.

For me, we need a proper winger. Someone who can take on and go past players whilst still being able to deliver a cross or pass.

Ricicharlison hasn't quite got the close control or pace to beat a man but his energy and determination make him a quality forward and first-teamer.

Bob was going to jack it in, being a scout. I told him scouting was his life, he loved doing it and the pleasure he got from it. Bringing a boy into the football world then seeing them make it meant more than any monetary award.

He kept at it, not because of me but because dozens of people told him the same thing. He was just a very nice humble man who liked what he did and was well liked for being the person he was. Rest in peace, Bob.

When you feel up to it, I hope you'll share his name and a bit more about his history with Rooney.

Condolences mate. Sounds like we have lost a good'un there. Always very sad.

If you feel you want to say a few words about him, click on FANS at the top of the page. Then click on Talking Points. I'm sure the guys would be happy to publish a few well chosen words to honour one of our own.

Sincere condolences.

'His tea was spilling all over the place because he was so excited'

Patrick Barkham meets the scout who discovered this 'timid young man', Wayne Rooney

Patrick Barkham – @patrick_barkham. Thursday 24 June 2004 02:49 BST

Bob Pendleton, a retired train driver, wanders up the touchline at Everton's football academy in Aintree, chatting to the eager parents of six- and seven-year-old boys. It's the same routine he performs every week, but the atmosphere is different today, now that the boy Pendleton spotted as an eight-year-old has become a fully fledged football icon. The 64-year-old scout is having to talk about Wayne Rooney rather a lot. A proud Evertonian, he doesn't really mind. "It's emotional at times", he says, "but I'm sure his family are going through the same."

Less than 10 years ago, Pendleton brought Rooney into Everton's Bellefield training ground and told the academy director, Ray Hall, to sign him up. Hall, who watched over Rooney's inexorable progress from eight-year-old to 18-year-old sensation, remembers when he first met Rooney, "a timid little boy", in his office. Rooney wasn't the only nervous one. Pendleton was trembling, Hall says, "His tea was spilling all over the place because he was so excited."

It was pure chance that Pendleton stumbled on the boy he still calls "young Rooney". In fact, he nearly failed to do so. A Liverpool scout spotted Rooney first and took him to their academy for a trial, but the coaches didn't like the look of him. It may not have helped that Rooney, from a staunch family of Evertonians, turned up in his blue Everton top. "They are still getting over that decision," smiles one coach at Everton's academy.

Pendleton was asked by the treasurer of the Walton and Kirkdale junior football league to collect refereeing fees owed by Copplehouse under-10s. "The treasurer asked if I could go and get them," Pendleton recalls. "I walked down to where they were playing and was talking to the manager when I saw a little fellow. He was so comfortable on the ball. I said to the manager, 'Who is the little fellow?', and he said, 'you're joking aren't you? That's young Wayne Rooney.'

"The manager points out his mum and dad, big Wayne and Jeanette, over on the other side of the pitch. I just introduced myself and said I'd like to take the young man into Bellefield. The look on their faces - because they were Evertonians - said it all. I was on to a winner. On the Thursday, I went over and had a little chat with Ray and said, 'I'm bringing the little fellow in'. He was signed there and then."

Rooney has always been a natural, says Pendleton. "From the word go, the things he could do with the ball, the goals he could score. Even then, he was one of them players. " Pendleton blows out his cheeks.

It was not just the skills, but Rooney's mental strength that stood out. His worried parents would phone the academy because he had not come home; he would be found in the academy gym. He was only 12 at the time. According to Neil Dewsnip, a coach at Everton's academy who looked after Rooney for much of his teenage years, he was "not tall, but he was always powerful" as a child. At under-12 level, he played for the under-13s; at under-15 he played for the under-17s and even the under-19s. By 16, of course, he was playing with the professionals. But at one stage, they had to bring the precociously skilful player back into his own age group at 14 "to stop him getting beaten up and allow him to regain his confidence".

As the sky darkens, Pendleton is still making tea for the parents of the next generation of Rooneys. Does he hope to find another Wayne Rooney? "No, Jesus," he says. "A good friend said to me, 'You only find one of them in your lifetime, so sit back and enjoy the ride Wayne is going to give you' - and I am enjoying it."

Wonder who was in charge of the club when Mr Pendleton was so browned off by his mistreatment?

Again today, 12 touches... goal, that's what is so confusing. Why on God's green earth can't we have even 90% of that ruthlessness in our team?

Sorry for your loss lads.

Carlo took over a Napoli team who finished 4 points off the title and left them mid-table. Guess what... an indisputable fact. This is what you wrote.

It is disputable, Conor. He did not leave them, he was sacked, because himself and all the players, all of them refused to go away on a week training camp organised by the owner.

He also got them into the knockout stage of the Champions League. I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who says Carlo needs to stop tinkering but he must have a reason why the young players are not being played. Are any of them injured? Does anyone who is around the Under-23s know anything?

He'll be watching down from the Top Balcony in the sky, with our Blue brothers in peace.

Apart from him being a thug, he is no good!

This is an old debate, but I would invest in a serious psychologist to free the minds of the team as a whole, of specific players and, indeed, of the top brass.

So much of sport takes place in the head, and we are a very troubled case with much traumatic history to unlock.

Taoist Wu Wei is what we need, or the cruder modern variant of "Fuck It" philosophy. We worry too much – all of us concerned with the club – and, therefore, we overthink and underachieve.

We are imprisoning ourselves.

Like so many others on TW, may I also extend my deepest sympathies to both of you and to Bob's family and friends.

By finding Wayne and persuading the club to sign him as a boy, Bob may have ultimately saved Everton Football Club, because without the monies that the club received from his transfer to Manchester United, lord knows what would have transpired. God bless Bob, all Evertonians owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

Let that sink in!!! Against the barcodes, he was iffy but, to be fair, so were the rest. The young man is at the start of his career and one or two think he should be the saviour! Calls for Rose of Spurs isn't the answer either.

Yesterday, we had to combat Burnley's Route 1 approach, they are a modern Stoke City. Testing time at the moment for Blues and – before anyone goes "Man City put 5 past them" – Burnley had an untried young reserve keeper in.

And finally it took Chelsea until the 92nd minute to secure the points against a very good relentless Leeds this weekend. Carlo Ancelotti has made mistakes but he has only had one transfer window to operate in. Last January, he had been at the club a matter of weeks, so still assessing his squad as to why it is unbalanced and lacking quality.

I knew him a long time and he'll be laughing at me now, spelling his name wrong!! Pendleton, that's the correct spelling. The man in charge of the bonus scheme for scouts was Mr Wyness.

You don't play players because they are young or old. You play them because you think they are good enough.

I would suggest Carlo has coached enough players of a standard higher than we have at Everton now or have seen in recent seasons to know what he considers good enough.

It’s interesting to read above about the management of Wayne Rooney, and how even the most prodigious talent we have ever seen needed patience and careful treatment. We have a manager with vast knowledge and experience, I am prepared to be patient with him.

Jim Aspinall, a Liverpool scout but an Evertonian, another gent, brought Robbie Fowler to Liverpool, well looked after by Liverpool when he retired, I heard or read that they finished his mortgage off and bought him a car.

Tommy Fairfoul, an ex Everton player who did the rounds before Bob Pendleton for Everton. John Bennison at Liverpool, Imthink he played for Wrexham and Chester.

Joe Armstrong, a Scouser, who scouted for Man.Unt. Joe did the job properly, by the book, phoned parents up and asked if it was okay to come and see you, came with his wife, all above board. He never discovered Georgie Best but was given the task to go to Belfast and persuade George and his parents to to get George to sign for United.

All nice people who it was a pleasure to get to know and have a good chat about football to.

After a run that had seen us keep clean sheets for only 2 of the previous 16 league games, we then went on to finish the season keeping 8 clean sheets out of the last 11. It was a remarkable turnaround, and it was also achieved alongside an improved goalscoring record.

No reason to believe Ancelotti could not do something similar.

Be honest here, does anyone think Gordon ripped up any trees at the back end of last season? I personally don't. And as well as Nkounkou did in the League Cup, he looked lost at Newcastle.

Look, their time will come most definitely, but the manager must have his reasons for not putting them in the matchday squad.

The defence was a shambles.

I am sure I read many moons ago the great Brian Clough used to fine his players for doing it. Jeez, if that happened today, our players would be fucking skint!

As for our manager, I think Darren Hind might be proven correct. For me, if he fucks up our League Cup run, then I want him gone!

Way too negative for my tastes... then again, he is an Italian, known for playing the game negatively.