Are we nearly there yet?

by   |   02/01/2021  88 Comments  [Jump to last]

I enjoy and admire the articles posted by Paul "the Esk"... but I find them a bit scary; we rely on Mr Moshiri and he needs Champions League football. Can Carlo deliver it? Perhaps, with a huge amount of luck. Luck beyond anything we have ever had before. The easiest way is to buy it. Unfortunately, that ship sailed with Koeman and his lamentable Director of Football, Steve Walsh on board. So Carlo can't buy it.

Build from scratch with a long-term strategy of producing and developing young players? Sell some, slowly improve quality and have an inspired Director of Football, along with a patient Board of Directors and a fanbase engaged, supportive and even more patient. That option is not open to Carlo. The new stadium dictates so.

What is Carlo's plan? I am not altogether sure. My view is that he is in an almost impossible situation that is reflected in his team set-up. Our best eleven can play some good stuff and get results but it is still, in my view, not good enough. A couple of additions might, just, give us a chance. However, factor in injuries, Everton luck, and "off-days", and you get what we have endured in the last week.

The lack of depth in the squad was a fair enough excuse for losing to Man Utd – though not, in my view in the tame way we did, but still excusable. It was not any excuse, to me, for the utterly abject showing against West Ham Utd, for the lack of urgency, confidence and guile.

Carlo doesn't seem to trust the squad; when you witness the utterly heart-stopping, soul-destroying, pointless passing around the back, one cannot blame him. (I am doing the coach the courtesy of accepting that this annoys him as much as us.) So it looks like the tactic is to keep it tight and gather points till all the squad are fit. Problem is, we are Everton; that day never comes and never will until we can buy a squad.

Another, perhaps minor, but still irritating point: Why two goalkeepers on the bench? Surely a young player could benefit from the experience. Back in the day, Man City had the late Eddie Large on the bench. In those days it was not impossible he would get a game but apparently it was for humour and motivation. So perhaps Lössl is also a gifted impressionist and motivator.

We are better off than a year ago. We have, in my opinion, signed James and maybe others because of Carlo. It is a positive. He is committed to short-termism, which is understandable. We have good young players and some are getting chances. Frankly, it is Carlo or bust, because there is no room in the Moshiri project for another coach. Who could it be in any case?

Here's my concern and it is based on our last six games. Pragmatism is good; top teams have loads of it, but they have more. I would expect at this stage to be thinking; yes, a blip, but I see the big picture, we're not too far away. I just don't see it and I believe we have too many players who don't see it either. Losing doesn't hurt them.

For this to work, it will require a quite remarkable alignment of the stars. A blend of personalities, a talisman signing, unprecedented fortune with injuries... and, most of all, belief. Who knows? It happened to Leicester.

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Christine Foster
1 Posted 04/01/2021 at 03:35:23
Andy, in a nutshell, it's how it is: we are half a team away from a good side who can challenge consistently. Ancelotti is making do with what he has. And it's not enough, and he knows it. Hence the inconsistencies; if he gets qualification to Europe, he will be rightly congratulated. Until replacements are found, we will have to persevere will inconsistencies and that can be good or bad.
Anthony Fitzpatrick
2 Posted 04/01/2021 at 05:21:08
I love Carlo and am made up with his signings which have elevated us, both in quality and profile. The drop-off in quality when Davies replaces Allan is frightening though. Allan's performance vs Leicester shows you what level we need to aspire to.

I am though concerned with how pragmatic we have become. Don't get me wrong: I love being hard to beat but we need to strike the right balance. Leeds at home was a sobering game but can we put that down to formation only??

Both games vs Man Utd plus recently vs West Ham Utd makes you wonder where we are at. I'm hoping the transfer window gives us the few additions that we need to be the team that Carlo has in mind for his Masterplan.

Darren Hind
3 Posted 04/01/2021 at 19:13:17
Are we nearly there yet? We haven't even fastened the safety belt and started the engine yet, Andy.

I keep hearing that the players are not of the standard required for this manager to be successful. What a cop out... a ready made excuse for a guy to achieve nothing... It can never be his fault.

The question we should really be asking is; is Ancelotti of the standard required for these players to be successful?

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... I've heard all the tired old arguments telling me about the trophies he has won in a former life... but let's be fair here. It would have been harder to fail than to succeed with some of the talent he has been fortunate enough to inherit.

He has no previous for actually building his own teams.

His job is different now. He can no longer sit back and watch the world class superstars he inherited annihilate inferior opposition. Now he has to improve the players he has got.

If I'm Tom Davies do I think being played here there and everywhere will enhance my game?

If I'm Alex Iwobi. How far is being played at left-wing back going to get me? Or if I'm a left back How much of a boost. does it give me to see a right-sided attacking player selected ahead of me?

Why would Godfrey, a centre-half, progress when he is playing at left-back? Especially when the guy playing centre-half looks like Bambi on Ice? And how does he feel knowing he will be bounced out as soon as the regular left-back is fit?

If I'm currently the hottest striker in the world. How do I feel when the manager changes the tactics that got me the goals and turns me into a pack mule, expecting me to chase a never ending stream of get-after-that balls?

The list just goes on. There is more to this management lark than massaging superstars ego's, knowing that if you keep them happy. They will probably beat anyone. Our boy has to show he can get a tune out of the players he has.

Ask not what the players can do for the manager....

John Keating
4 Posted 04/01/2021 at 19:46:54
Christine spot on.

It's difficult when a player can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away.

Thomas Richards
5 Posted 04/01/2021 at 19:57:12

One of our central midfielders actually split the two easy options he had v West Ham. Two players on the touchline, one 10 yards further forward and our midfielder split them precisely with a pass from 10 yards away. Ball straight into touch.

John Keating
6 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:33:51
Thomas, yes that's right. The passing was atrocious by almost all the team. How can the manager legislate for that incompetence? It wasn't as if one or two players were continually making basic mistakes and could be substituted.

We have to realise that we are not entitled to win every game regardless of the opposition; however, it's the way we lose games that is concerning.

100% effort and commitment should be a minimum. Fitness and stamina should be a foregone conclusion from everyone. We lack so much.

It was interesting to read Michael Ball commenting that the only players he could hear when at Goodison the other day were the West Ham players. Nothing from a Blue. Shocking.

Paul Swan
7 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:35:46
Interesting comments from Michael Ball in the Red Echo tonight re the difference in the level of communication and leadership he heard between West Ham and us during the recent debacle.

This is one of the main failings and consistent features of all the recent managers and explains why we revert to type in a lot of the games like this where we constantly fail to produce.

Nobody is called out, on or apparently off the field. If this is not fixed, Ancelotti will go the same way as all of the other failures and mercenaries we have had for too long now. There has to be strong leaders on and off the field.

Sam Hoare
8 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:38:47
It's been a strange season. At times we've shown good attacking verve, and in the first 4 or 5 games especially we seemed to create a lot of chances. At other time we have looked very solid defensively, against the likes of Leicester, Chelsea and Arsenal.

If we could marry those two qualities we'd be laughing but of course it's not so easy as that and we could equally go the other way and end up porous and uncreative.

Ultimately I think our strongest XI when fit and firing is pretty good.

Currently that XI for me is:

Coleman Godfrey Keane Digne
Doucouré Allan
Iwobi Rodriguez Richarlison

Coleman is perhaps the weak link (though he was good early season) and Godfrey has not played centre-back yet (you could replace him with either Holgate or Mina without much drop in quality) but it's a strong XI, capable of top 6/7 I believe.

But look beneath and the issues are close at hand. We currently lack the depth to sustain injuries and suspensions as we saw against West Ham where we especially missed the creativity of Digne, Iwobi and a fit Rodriguez.

So far Ancelloti has added 4 players of his choosing to the squad and they have all added something. The football has been poor at times but it's been fairly effective, to a degree. After this window and the Summer one, I expect the majority of the team will be his. That will be the time to better judge Ancelloti's Everton.

Rob Dolby
9 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:40:55
Darren, are you saying that it is easy to win things with top teams across Europe's top divisions consistently for 20 years?

Do you not have a modicum of respect for what Ancelotti has achieved in the game?

Regardless of who our manager, is they have an unbelievably hard job to bridge the gap between the top teams. It just so happens that our current manager has raised expectations based on his past achievements.

For the first time in years, we have some optimism around the club. Just over 12 months into his tenure, we have demonstrated an improvement in our offensive and defensive play. It's our best start for 15 years.

For us to seriously challenge the top 4, we have to match them with spending, regardless of who our manager is. If Moshiri wants us to compete, we have to break our transfer record multiple times.

Thomas Richards
10 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:47:26
I agree, John.

Never, ever an excuse for not giving everything you've got on a football pitch.

I recall Graeme Sharp years ago in commentary, a fellow commentator said to him after a defeat, "At least they all give 100% so credit there." Sharpie did his nut.

"100% effort should be a given, every week, don't be throwing bouquets of flowers at them for that."

We haven't got many leaders. We are far too quiet. Allan and Coleman are the only leaders we have.

Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:48:48
So what does this new national lockdown mean to football?

I'm reading accounts of your Prime Minister's announcement but I'm not quite grasping the implications.

ps: New York just announced the first confirmed US case of the new virus variant. Thanks a lot, guys.

Thomas Richards
12 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:52:02
You're not on your own, Mike.

Our Prime Minister is not grasping the implications either.

Peter Mills
13 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:58:43
Mike, from what I can make out, ‘elite’ football and the FA Cup can continue.
Rob Halligan
14 Posted 04/01/2021 at 20:59:56
Premier League, Championship and Scottish footie can all continue.
Tony Everan
15 Posted 04/01/2021 at 21:14:36
Are we nearly there yet, dad?

That is what my kids ask from the back seat, when we're are on a journey. They like to take the piss and ask it at the and of our road. They think it's funny.

With Ancelotti, the destination seems like it's going to be exotic. Not Skeggy or Cleethorpes but the Isle of Capri. Expectations are high and there's a bit of excitement.

Sam above shows what is close to consensus as our first choice team. (I'd rather have Mason than Seamus as right-back at the moment).

Even with that team, I would not go as far as saying we are nearly there. There's core areas that need back up and strengthening. There's half-a-dozen players on massive contracts that need moving on. The refreshing of the squad is only 30% done.

What makes me optimistic that we are on the right path to being “nearly there” is the players Carlo Ancelotti has brought in during his first real transfer window. Allan, Doucouré and Ben Godfrey. Really good additions. James Rodriguez is box office Hollywood, raises the profile of the whole club, we just need to get him properly fit and injury free to get what we need on the pitch out of him.

So Andy, not nearly there but about a third of the way and going, stutteringly, in the right direction.

Mike Gaynes
16 Posted 04/01/2021 at 21:24:16
Thanks, Pete and Tom.
Darren Hind
17 Posted 05/01/2021 at 06:59:41
Rob @9

No I'm not saying it was easy to win the trophys Carlo has won over the years.

What I AM saying it it was a fucking sight easier to win these trophies with all those incredibly talented players to choose from. the names (too numerous to list) simply drip off the tongue. No manager in history comes anywhere near close to inheriting the amount of truly world class footballers.

Look; I'm not here to begrudge Carlo his place in the haul of fame. He has earned it...I just don't think he had to perform miracles to achieve his success... WE require a miracle.
I didnt just start talking about Carlos career this season. I penned an article on this very site about him before he even got here. I know his career.I know he has not always covered himself in glory.

When I see so many falling over themselves in gratitude that such a successful manager has deemed us worthy of his services. I can only assume they are totally blind to the flip side of his CV.
Yes he has managed famous clubs like Parma, Juve, Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Munich and Napoli, but despite having all those world class players at his disposal. SIX of those seven clubs have ended up firing him out of a cannon.

World class players like Stoichkov and Zola fucked off because of his tactics. Half a dozen Munich players went to the board to complain about his out-dated methods. They pleaded for him to be sacked.
Contrary to what some would have you believe, Carlo has not always been an incredible success. He has had some proper howlers. If anything, He should in fact have won an awful lot more
We are talking about a guy who somehow managed his team of world class players to squander a three goal lead against a very ordinary Liverpool in a CL final.
We are talking about a guy who blew a league title despite having a five point lead with three games to go.
We are talking about a guy who has a very definite flip side to his CV.
A guy who's failures have been every bit as spectacular as his success's

I don't agree with your claim that he has improved our attack and our defence. He has put the handbrake on a veritable scoring machine by sacrificing the supply line in order to defend in greater numbers.
Defending in numbers is NOT the same as improving your defence - Thats were those who supported big Sam got it so badly wrong

I'm not trying to change your mind Rob. I think only Carlo himself can do that. I'm simply responding to the questions you have raised and defending my point.
You will not change my mind by basing your entire argument on Carlos achievements in a former life either.

For me, Carlo's CV is totally irrelevant with Regards to this job. Its like talking up the chances of a horse that won the Derby and the Arc five years ago in this years Grand national.
That wont stop people churning it out a daily basis.

The only reason I have even spoke about it, is to draw their attention to the fact that there is more than one side to it.

Jay Woods
18 Posted 05/01/2021 at 08:26:23
Well reasoned points, Darren Hind. He's a dinosaur in terms of methods for sure, the implication being we won't get to where we want to without appointing someone on an upward trajectory, like the Leipzig manager, Julian Nagelsmann. (Actually, while we're at it, could we not just acquire the entire RB scouting and planning system, as their teams are all ahead of most of their peers).

Carlo's motivational skills might be a bit out of kilter too, given the second half's continuation of the first half's sideways, backwards and kick-into-opponents' backsides passing in the cowardly debacle against West Ham the other night.

Thomas Richards
19 Posted 05/01/2021 at 08:28:47
Zola left Cagliari to sign for Abramovich's Chelsea for football reasons. Nothing to do with his weekly wage trebling.
Joe McMahon
20 Posted 05/01/2021 at 08:50:44
Thomas @19, I may be wrong but I thought Zola was pre Ambromovic, he signed for Chelsea in the 90s.
Thomas Richards
21 Posted 05/01/2021 at 09:09:41

Memory playing tricks there. You're not wrong.

Stan Schofield
22 Posted 05/01/2021 at 09:57:24
Are we nearly there yet? My answer is that we are not nearly there, we ARE there NOW!!!

I put the following on the Premier League – Week 17 thread, but it's probably better here:

LFC have not got a major injury problem, apart from one player, Van Dijk. He is their defensive piece that led them from nearly winning trophies to winning a couple. And his absence reveals their weaknesses again, which were evident before they signed him. That's why they go on about him being injured, but they pretend it's part of a bigger injury crisis, which it simply isn't.

Everton, on the other hand, have had, and are still having, an injury crisis. But the media ignore that. And despite that crisis, we still have enough quality to be contending at the top of the league.

One thing that is worse than the media bias, is the pessimisim of some posters on ToffeeWeb, which I believe stems from an unconscious bias influenced by the red media bias. Some on here simply cannot believe we can compete and are currently competing; they are constantly looking for explanations for our good results in terms of luck or the opposition playing badly. This unconscious bias extends to constant criticism of our current manager, despite our current competing in the face of the injury crisis.

Chaps, some of you really need to get a grip, see through the bias, and appreciate the reality. Beware of propaganda, it's very powerful, and can and does sway you against the very team you support without you realising it.

We've spent enough money on quality players, and finally a quality manager, to achieve success this season. We can win the Premier League, but we certainly won't unless we believe we can. Such belief is based on the current reality, not on blind faith.

Rob Dolby
23 Posted 05/01/2021 at 10:08:08
Darren. There is a flip side to every football career if there wasn't people wouldn't enjoy sport the way that we do.

Ferguson was incharge of Man Utd for 25 years he failed to win the title in half of those years. He lost the title with more or less the last kick of the season to Man City. Our last trophy win was against one of his best United teams does that make him a busted flush failure or is he the greatest British manager ever?

Mourihno at Spurs has had his good and bad times. He has still won things, his team's tend to be very functional but he wins stuff.

Moshiri has put 2 & 2 together and appointed Ancelotti on his previous track record in the hope that he can progress us.

The purchase of Godfrey has definitely improved the defence he is like a young Jagielka. The defending from set pieces has definitely improved from the previous regime.

The addition of Allan and Dacoure have helped the defence and Attack with their work rate.

The signing of Rodriguez has given us guile, class and improved the supply line to the attack.

He isn't a miracle worker but in 12 months we have improved.

Derek Taylor
24 Posted 05/01/2021 at 10:27:03
Stan, don't over-complicate the situation. Truth is that posters on ToffeeWeb are generally pessimistic because Everton haven't won anything for 26 years. Indeed, our club has rarely looked likely to do so except for a very brief period at the beginning of this season. And we should have known that a decent run is almost always followed by abject dross for games on end.

Blaming RS success for our feelings of doom is typical of our tribe. Face the facts and try to enjoy following a constantly ordinary team and ignore the Big Six – or is it Seven these days?

Brian Harrison
25 Posted 05/01/2021 at 11:01:54
Mike Gaynes 11

The elite sport is allowed to continue but apart from that the rest of football has been put on hold. But it seems as though the Marine v Spurs FA Cup game will at the moment go ahead. I am sure Paul Leary the Chairman of Marine will be delighted to realize Marine are now an elite team if for only 1 day. I am not sure what will happen to games in the FA Cup which doesn't have an elite club involved will happen. I know the fantastic response from mainly Spurs fans buying reality tickets for the game has made a lot of money for Marine, so well done to Spurs fans a marvellous gesture.

Well, with only days left and with your President getting evermore desperate to stay in power, I see the previous 10 defence chiefs have told the army not to get involved in Trump's manoeuvrings. Seems according to reports the only avenue open to him to stay in power is to declare war on somebody and use emergency powers to stay in power. So I guess Iran looks like his favoured country to attack.

Eddie Dunn
26 Posted 05/01/2021 at 11:44:31
Stan, how can you say the Reds haven't had an injury crisis? VVD, TAA was out for a few weeks, Thiago was out for ages, Gomes is out long term, Matip is out short term so let's be faIr!
Steve Brown
27 Posted 05/01/2021 at 11:53:59
Four points off top spot after 16 games. Just do the maths.
Derek Wadeson
28 Posted 05/01/2021 at 12:47:48
Steve Brown I did the maths

16 league games played = 29 points
An average of 1.81 points per game
1.81 x 38 = 69 points for the season

Current top of the league
17 games played = 33 points
An average of 1.94 points per game
1.94 x 38 = 74 points for the season

I think we would of taken that at the end of last season and especially around the Christmas before last.

Stan Schofield
29 Posted 05/01/2021 at 13:12:56
Eddie@26: Because they have purportedly got good strength-in-depth, that’s what they’ve been claiming based on signings that have made their bench supposedly strong. They’ve said it, the RS fans have said it, the media have said it, and many on ToffeeWeb have said it. But as soon as they have a few injuries, and that’s what they’ve had compared with last season when they were very lucky with injuries, they start moaning when things don’t go their way. And apparently quite a few ToffeeWebbers are buying into that shite.

The truth is, they are heavily dependent on a few key players, like most (probably all) sides are, and weaknesses are exposed without them. Just like us, but our injury toll has been higher, and when our weaknesses are thus exposed too many on here do the usual ‘jam tomorrow’ shite where we’re supposedly a ‘work in progress’, ‘need more transfer windows’, and other excuses for asserting that we cannot compete at the top NOW.

This is the mentality problem, and it has got to stop, otherwise it will ALWAYS be jam tomorrow. This mentality problem falls right into the hands of red propaganda shite.

Dennis Stevens
30 Posted 05/01/2021 at 13:13:37
Alternatively, if we are 4 points off the top spot after 16 games then we are losing ground on the leaders at the rate of 0.25 points per game & so should end the season 9.5 points behind the Champions.
Mick O'Malley
31 Posted 05/01/2021 at 14:09:55
Totally agree with Darren, What Carlo has won in the past is irrelevant. The way some posters go on you would thinkwe are the luckiest club in the world to have Carlo while ignoring the fact that we’ve made him one of the best paid managers in the world. He didn’t come here cos he love’s Everton or Crosby, he came cos we offered him a kings ransom, he has raised the profile of the club and we are currently competing at the right end of the table and if he gets us into Europe then great but I find “Carlo Fantastico” talk a bit embarrassing when we can hardly string together 2 halves of decent football and some of the performances would have had Allardyce strung up from the Gladys Street goal, let’s stop bigging the manager up until he succeeds here,that doesn’t mean I want him replaced I just want him to succeed with us, I’m not interested in what he has done in the past as it means nothing in the here and now.
Steve Brown
32 Posted 05/01/2021 at 14:39:38
Great interview with James where he is positively GLOWING on his admiration for Ancelotti.


Derek @ 28, that is excellent, 69 points for the season. Points are facts! The rest is just opinion.

Stan Schofield
33 Posted 05/01/2021 at 14:48:12
Mick@31: Ancelotti’s past achievements ARE relevant to us, as in all cases where an organisation (in this case EFC) employs someone with relevant experience (in this case Ancelotti). And no matter who is employed to do the job, they will be paid a king’s ransom. So the king’s ransom is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned.

The conversation about Ancelotti has got a bit ridiculous now. The fact is, he’s here, it’s better him being here than some no-mark like we’ve had before, he deserves full support, whilst at the same time being subject to ongoing assessment (like any employee), positive and negative as the case may be. Any other discussion about it, either over-praise or scepticism, is tedious.

Rob Halligan
34 Posted 05/01/2021 at 14:51:56
Mick, # 31. I've seen this said many times, i.e. Ancelotti only came to Everton because he was offered a kings ransom, or words to that affect, but what bugs me is this??


I mean, did he phone you, and everybody else who thinks similar, before taking the job, just to let you know that he was only coming for the money, or maybe drop you a line?

So come on, I'm intrigued as to how you and others, know he only came for the money?

Jay Wood

35 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:04:14
Dennis @ 30. You could take your pessimistic view of things. Or you could take a more optimistic view and consider where Everton were a month ago to now.

This was the PL table after our 1-1 draw at Burnley:

PL Table After Game 11

This is the PL table today:

Current PL Table

Even with the woeful home defeat to WHU, this has been the points swing between those two dates, listed in order of positions after game 11.

The following names the team, the points Everton has gained (+) against that team in this time frame, or lost (-) against them. The final column shows how many games MORE than Everton each team has played in this time frame (+). A dash (-) shows we have played an equal number of games played:

Team Pts difference Games Played
1 Spurs + 7 -
2 L'pool +5 +1
3 Chelsea +7 +1
4 Leicester +1 +1
5 S'ton +3 +1
6 United -2 -
7 City +1 -
8 WHU +3 +1
10 Wolves +7 +1
11 Villa + 1 +1

All but 3 teams - Spurs, United and City - have all played one more game than us. We have gained points against 9 teams. Only United have had better form than us in December, as this from table from game 12 to 17 shows:

PL Form Table Game 12-17

I will repeat for a third time in recent days:

We're doing all right.

Jay Wood

36 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:07:44
* Eds, could you possibly edit the format of my previous post so it is easier to read?


Stan Schofield
37 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:13:47
Steve@32: That’s a good interview. Obviously a very articulate and intelligent player, consistent with his ‘thinking’ style on the pitch. I like the reference to the need for anticipation and thought, over and above the talk about running.

At the start of this season, we showed this, with economy of effort, making the ball do more of the work, control and confidence, where Rodriguez played a large steadying part. A refreshing change from the over-emphasis on turgid gegenpressing in the British game over the last few years, Man City being the exception in terms of football quality.

This economy of effort, of thought over cross-country running, has characterised the very best Everton sides, and what we saw at the start of the season was a reminder of it.

Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:16:39
Are we nearly there? That title makes me think about Bramley Moore, especially when reading -today, that the people who are objecting,Link have told everyone to keep their Christmas decorations up until February, to add a little bit of cheer, like they did in the Middle Ages, and probably a major clue as to why they are objecting?
Thomas Richards
39 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:24:23
Rob #34

Very good post mate
The way the wages are repeatedly brought up is laughable.
You would think the moaners were paying the wages themselves the carry on out of them.
What has it got to do with ANY fan how much the manager is getting.

As for the other stick used, "we only employed him because of his past history"
WTF else do you they expect?

Mr Moshiri to an audience of architects" thank you for applying to be the architect for design of stadium.
Leave your name and contact number on the desk. No further info required. Not interested in what you have built previously. "

Mike Gaynes
40 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:37:49
Rob and Thomas... a big AMEN to your posts.
Andrew Ellams
41 Posted 05/01/2021 at 15:48:50
This is probably the most rollercoaster season there has been for a longtime and if we're going to crack the top 4 this is probably going to be the best chance for a few years at least.

That said, I'm not convinced our nearest and dearest will make top 2 so who knows.

Jay Harris
42 Posted 05/01/2021 at 16:06:34
Ive given up reading the over the top negative rhetoric re Carlo.

Personally speaking I can see the improvement he has made at the club and continues to make.

It takes more than 12 months to get the club to where we want it to be but to be within 4 points of top spot with a game in hand despite some horrendous results and performances speaks volumes to me.

This manager knows what he is doing and a bunch of negativity from certain Evertonians does not help the cause.

I couldnt care less if Carlo was on 100m a year as long as he is getting the job done he will do for me.

John McFarlane Snr
43 Posted 05/01/2021 at 16:06:57
Hi Rob [34] and Thomas [39] although I think salaries of both managers and players are obscene, this plays no part in my estimate of talent. If a player fails to trap a ball my reaction is one of disappointment, and I've never been a member of the "He's paid X amount and can't trap a ball" club. It's quite probable that Lionel Messi makes the occasional mistake, when it could be argued that a schoolboy would be embarrassed by making a similar error. I've often said that I've never missed a goal scoring opportunity from my seat in the Park End, but when I think about it 'no one's perfect'.
Paul Birmingham
44 Posted 05/01/2021 at 16:15:52
As all views are welcome, but their are some whom, will never be happy it seems with the way the club is being run top down and where it counts for, on the park.

Year on year, Everton’s in a better league position and are a work in progress, but there will be bad days at the office, like last Friday evening, that was a very bad performance.

The world runs on in every EPL club, but direct parallels can’t be made as each club is in constant eveloution, as are their squads.

So reference to Fat Sam, could draw parallels with Howard Kendal mk1, as a manager or The Cat., and bad days and good days at Everton.

It’s irrelevant now as, like my self at times, Its human nature, to become a prisoner of the past, in life and In football and matters Everton, related.

Carlo Ancellottis CV, is proven, a testimony of football achievement, ( but people, will have failures, and difficult periods as in normal life), good as any top manager in Europe, how and if he can add battle honours whilst at Everton, remains to be seen, but to write off, and subjugate him, in early January 2021, is baffling.

We want good football, and to win, but all considered would some rather be where we was 3 years ago...

Does media and marketing perception of EFC, count and is it important?

Yes, and good football counts, yes, very much so, to win in style and manner, but more so! To win.

As, Rob has said, as who knows, how and why, it’s all hyperbola, unless proven.

Results speak, lets see where Everton are in May or whenever the season is completed.

As a Jay has said, and proven by result based facts, Everton, have improved, and are hanging in, with some key players, long term injured.

Chewing the crud, on life and TW, but tough times for man kind, let’s hope Everton, can morph, into a team that can be successful and win honours and qualify for Europe, this season.

Brent Stephens
45 Posted 05/01/2021 at 16:31:52
Rob #34, Thomas #39 - and an amen from me as well. The architect analogy is a useful one.
Dennis Stevens
46 Posted 05/01/2021 at 16:36:17
Jay #35 I wasn't actually expressing a view, merely pointing out that you can play about with stats to produce all sorts of nonsense. We're nearly half way through the season, but there's no reason to assume that the 2nd half of the season will be consistent with the 1st anymore than the two halves of a match can be expected to be the same - football just doesn't work that way. As we all know.

Although, how you can view such a projection as pessimistic perplexes me somewhat, as we haven't finished as close to the eventual Champions, other than actually being Champions, since the "Double Runner-Up" season of 1985/6. If Carlo gets us close enough to finish within 10 points of the eventual Champions this season then we'll be doing more than alright!

I agree with your assessment as to where we are, but you're looking to counter a point I'm not making.

Bill Gall
47 Posted 05/01/2021 at 18:12:37
I agree that the players we have for a starting 11 are capable of not winning every game,but being able to hold their own and win the amount of games required to achieve a place in a European competition. the major problem is the lack of quality in replacing injured or suspended players.

The loss through injury of our 2 fullbacks showed this as all though Holgate and Godfrey were good replacements on the defensive side they did not provide the attacking options of Digne and Coleman, and this reduced the supply for D.C.L. and Richarlison. With the loss of form from Gomes and Davies not being 100% comfortable in the positions he is asked to play in, this is a weak area when we loose a player like Allan.

Ancelotti's problem is he wants us to get into Europe this season but has had to use what is available at the club. The transfer window being open gives him a chance to bring in 1/2 more players while selling 4/5 other players. I am like a number of other supporters who would like to see some young players tried, but stepping up from youth and under 23 teams into the premier is not easy, and not able to watch the development of these young players, have to rely on the manager and his staff to decide what level they are at.

This window I expect Ancelotti will go for the more experienced player or players for the midfield and backup for D.C.L. We are not established enough to sign young players for the first 11 and squad, and if we qualify for Europe next season, then it will be time to giving young players a chance.

As the comments say Ancelotti is not used to building a team but has always had top quality players to work with, but to me, he has brought in and developed quality players, and the future will look a lot better with more recruitment's. The last game was poor but Everton are not the only team in the premier that has poor games.
It took Liverpool 30 yrs to win the premier league and took Klopp 4/5 yrs to build a team to do it.
Its a shame supporters are doubting our manager after 1 yr.

Darren Hind
48 Posted 05/01/2021 at 19:39:29

The only reason Ancelotti's CV is relevant to those who are so outraged, is because they are clearly missing a very simple point. Nobody is saying the CV was irrelevant in getting him the job. I know that suits the foolish strawman response, but doesn't address the point which was actually made.

I doubt there is anybody out there who doesn't realise his past deeds were the only reason soft-arse Moshiri got it wrong again. The point being made, is that his CV is completely and utterly irrelevant to the job he will do now he's here. It's of no consequence whatsoever. What a man could do in the past is of no consequence if he is no longer able to do it anymore.

Let me put it another way: When Carl Ancelotti was being taken to school by the weeping German, Steve Bruce, Marcello Bielsa, or the baby faced Norwegian (to name but a few), his past glories were of no earthy good to him.

Winning trophies with players like Pirlo and Zidane years ago, did not stop him looking like the Lion from the Wizard of Oz when The Ginger Twat eye-balled him last week.

And where did this idea of his wages being of no consequence come from??? For a £55M contract, Moshiri could have attracted some of the finest most innovative young hungry coaches in the world. Unfortunately, he blew it on a sixty-something busted flush who plays ugly football and hasn't won a trophy in years.

You'll soon see the relevance...

Tony Abrahams
49 Posted 05/01/2021 at 19:49:00
If Carlo looked like the lion, then I’d say you sound like scarecrow, Darren!
Thomas Richards
50 Posted 05/01/2021 at 19:49:59
"For a £55M contract, Moshiri could have attracted some of the finest most innovative young hungry coaches in the world."


Barry Thompson
51 Posted 05/01/2021 at 19:56:40
That's a strawman response, Tony A (49)
Lyndon Lloyd
52 Posted 05/01/2021 at 19:59:52
Ancelotti's contract has variously been reported to be worth between £6m and £9m a year. Not sure how you get to £55m. It's £40.5m at the most, unless you know of performance-related bonuses that the rest of us don't, Darren. And if he hits those targets, I suspect he'll have paid for himself in added Premier League merit payments and revenue from European qualification.
Brian Williams
53 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:02:49
It's like being Bill Murray in Punxsutawney.
Will Mabon
54 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:03:59
Lyndon, I heard £11M per year more than once early on. Academic really. It's a shed load at even the bottom end.
Darren Hind
55 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:07:51

It was reported that he would earn £11M a year at the time.

More than happy to accept it was a £40M contract. Especially as I often quote the figures I get from this site.

That still makes him one of the highest-paid managers in the world. As you say, if he gets us Champions League football, it'll be money well spent, but, if he doesn't, he will become the latest in a long line of expensive failures hired by Moshiri.

Stan Schofield
56 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:10:08
I don’t give a fuck how much Ancelotti gets paid. The only pay I give a fuck about is my own.
Brent Stephens
57 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:13:05
"It's like being Bill Murray in Punxsutawney."

That's a coffee-spitter-outer! Brilliant!

Bill Murray~Punxsutawney!

Brent Stephens
58 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:14:29
Thomas #50 interesting to see if there's an answer to that.
Thomas Richards
60 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:18:33

It's doubtful.

My point in that post at 50 is that we are, repeatedly, told "We can get a better manager for the wages."

When asked "Who?" they can't give names.

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:28:26
Thomas, I see the point exactly. We can but wait. But don't hold your breath.
Lyndon Lloyd
62 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:32:18
The £11.5m-a-year figure came from The S*n so I think I'll take that one with more than a pinch of salt. They know the square root of eff all about what goes on at EFC.

The last figure I read was that he was on something comparable to Koeman's £6m/year.

Darren Hind
63 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:34:18
It came from numerous sources, Lyndon.

I doubt anyone on this site would have seen it in The Sun...

Brent Stephens
64 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:36:20
I'll go with Lyndon's figure. In the end, though, I don't care about the money as it's not mine, as others have also said. If Carlo brings us a measure of success, I'll be happy. If he doesn't, I won't have found that happiness but the last thing I'll be worrying about then is how much he was paid.
Darren Hind
65 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:41:14
It's kinda funny Stan. Many people said they don't care how much we spend on players when applauding Koeman and Walsh's spending spree. . . They care now alright. We could have paid for half of Bramley-Moore Dock.

There is a finite amount we have to spend. Once it's gone, it's gone. No club can afford to waste £40-50M.

Patrick McFarlane
66 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:41:56
I've looked at several sites listing managers' wages and every one of them cites Ancelotti as earning £11.5m per year. Obviously how and where they come by these figures is unknown and it only takes one outlet to print it as fact and the rest follow suit.
Chris Williams
67 Posted 05/01/2021 at 20:45:36
From what I remember, it was reported that the £11M covered the costs of Ancelotti and his entire team.
Thomas Richards
68 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:04:27

Tom Davies is on £25k per week. I could find many, many better midfielders for that wage.


It's a daft game that anyone can play.

Brent Stephens
69 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:07:58
Totally agree with the point you've been making, Thomas.
Bill Gall
70 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:14:27
Off topic but when we lost to Utd in the Carabao cup there was no VAR yet Brentford just had a tying goal disallowed against Tottenham after a lengthy view by VAR.
Sam Hoare
71 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:21:17
We pay over £11.5M a year in wages to Bernard and Andre Gomes, I can certainly handle it being paid to a manager who get us into Europe and hopefully more. If Ancelotti is that manager remains to be seen but it makes more sense to me to pay that much to the manager (and his staff?) than two players who mainly come off our bench.
Rob Halligan
72 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:21:29
Thomas # 68. What about the tea lady? We should go all out for Mrs Doyle from Father Ted!! Maybe cost a bit more but will be well worth it.
Thomas Richards
73 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:23:07
Gowan, gowan Rob
Rob Halligan
74 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:25:04
Bill # 70. I don't know why VAR is only being used in the semi-finals and final, but it it had been used in the quarter finals then Cavani would have been sent off, and not be on the pitch to score.
John Keating
75 Posted 05/01/2021 at 21:45:42
Ancelotti is shit. It's been rammed down our throats since before he signed. He's on megabucks and that alone is a sackable offence. Get rid asap.

Bring in Jordan Hadaway... yes, Jordan Hadaway. He's a Blue too so on par with Dunc and Rhino and therefore far better than an outsider. Jordan won't cost much.

Don't say you weren't told.

Stan Schofield
76 Posted 05/01/2021 at 22:18:02
Darren @65: I don't give a fuck.
Christine Foster
77 Posted 06/01/2021 at 03:53:01
Enough of the crap. Carlo Ancelotti was brought in by Moshiri because he is an established winner. Not a wannabe, not a young up-and-coming manager. (That got us a long way didn't it?) He brought in a manager who has a reputation of winning that is acknowledged by better players than we have had for a generation.

You can cut and slice, shape and bend to suit an opinion but the reality he is the best manager we have had by far for many a year.

What we have not got is a team that can deliver (yet) the silverware we long for; this is the project, this is the plan and realistically it's not going to happen with the squad we have. No magic wand or motivational talk, no amount of training or tactical nouse will turn a sow's ear into a gem. That's not to say there is no point because some players will benefit, others not.

Me, I am happy to see how all this unfolds, see who arrives and goes, it's transition, not play instant lotto.

Darren Hind
78 Posted 06/01/2021 at 08:50:30
This is me waving the white flag. I'm not surrendering to support of Carlo. I'm surrendering to the gob-smacking level of illogical, ill-informed apologism... There is simply no reasoning with it.

Carlo has inherited a squad choc-full of seasoned internationals. Yet we are led to believe the players are useless and are always the problem. He can't be expected to beat the world-class journeymen of Leeds, Southampton and Newcastle... he has inherited pure shite.

Yet, when these useless players beat teams like Chelsea and Leicester, it's because Carlo has improved them... but they are back to being "pure shite" when Carlo's cowardice is exposed by the likes of Steve Bruce, Marcelo Bielsa, or The Ginger Twat.

We can all get to our feet singing "Sixty grand, sixty grand, Seamus Coleman"... but the amount we paid becomes "irrelevant" where Carlo is concerned? Its bollocks.

I can't reason with people who will deny Zola left Carlo because of tactical reasons and instead, insist he left for the millions Abromovich was offering... Five years before Roman even got to Chelsea. Or with people who will contentedly plough through reams and reams of apologism, but think they are watching Bill Murray when the minority counter-argument comes back.

I can't understand how anyone can witness our pug ugly football over the past year and come to the conclusion that "We are already there". Or people who insist our problems are down to the media obsession with the RS... only to go on and repeatedly post about them.

Crackpot posts about architects turning up in their numbers for an interview... The excuses are endless.

There is no point in debate. It's long since been established that it's positive to support a manager who, even after a year, is still setting his team up to bore the arse off anybody watching them... But it's negative to rail against it?

It doesn't matter that we have bought a rusty old Bentley with an engine that sounds like a biscuit tin being shaken... It is still a Bentley, Right? Who gives a fuck how much we paid for it?

I blame Jordan Hadaway....

Thomas Richards
79 Posted 06/01/2021 at 09:00:16
Christine #77

"Enough of the crap"

Very apt.

Ray Roche
80 Posted 06/01/2021 at 09:19:20
Chris @67

I also remember that at the time Ancellotti joined us, the reported £11m was for him and his staff.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to slag off this washed up, useless, money grabbing waster, eh? Wait six months and the Ancellotti haters can have their hero, Big Sam, back.

Brent Stephens
81 Posted 06/01/2021 at 09:20:46

You say "it's transition, not play instant lotto."

That's a fine analogy – instant lotto!

Stan Schofield
82 Posted 06/01/2021 at 15:50:39
Darren@78: Those potential inconsistencies you point out, for example lauding Coleman’s low cost whilst ignoring Carlo’s high cost, are actual inconsistencies only if it’s the same people doing the Coleman-lauding and Carlo-ignoring.

You actually pulled me up on a similar point, about it needing to be the same people for an inconsistency, on another thread recently, and I accepted the point, which is an obvious one I initially overlooked. How about you now accepting the same point, unless you care to identify any individuals who are inconsistent in the way described?

I certainly haven’t been inconsistent in this respect, as you could verify by examining my posts, so your point isn’t relevant to me, and possibly most if not all others on here. How about it?

Brian Williams
83 Posted 06/01/2021 at 16:31:20
Darren. You don't have to reason with me (I was the Bill Murray mentioner for those that might not know) because I tend not to enter into discussion with you.
I tend not to either plough through reams and reams etc as you suggest or suggest the Groundhog Day reference when the counter argument from the minority comes back.
I referenced the Bill Murray film because you not only come back with the same counter argument every time but more or less the same post.
I actually don't disagree with the main gist of your point/s regarding Ancelotti, but by fuck man you make the same one over and over and over again, and it's fucking boring.
At least you realise you repeat more or less the same post over and over otherwise you wouldn't have known it was you I was referring to when I referenced Groundhog Day.
We get the message! Ancelotti is yesterday's man, a busted flush, a coward, blah blah blah.

Darren Hind
84 Posted 06/01/2021 at 18:37:38

I know what you mean, but I don't say the same thing every time. In fact, I search for new ways to counter the never-ending posts telling us how lucky we are to have Carlo. Or how successful he used to be – you know all those many many posts you don't ever complain about.

You are right though. No matter how many ways I find to criticise our boy, it all comes down to the same thing – busted flush, coward... blah blah blah – it must be so annoying

The reason I said I quit trying to swim against this tidal wave of opposition is because it's too exhausting. There are just too many posts from people marveling at the trophies Carlo used to win. I know you have seen them all and I know you know they all basically come down to the same thing – Carlo is Fantastico... I also know (despite your claims) that you are overwhelmingly in favour and you never complain about all those posts being repetitive

The good news is, Brian, you can sit back and mainly read the unquestioning support of those posters who will only ever offer their support for Carlo – the ones you never complain about.

But before I depart these debates, a little tip if for you if I may, Brian: If you don't want to read stuff from a particular poster, just skate over it. It worked a treat for me with a guy who for years has banged on about how many bottles of Desperados he could drink.

Anyway, Brian, it's a fair cop. No matter how many chinks I find Carlo's armour, it all boils down to the same thing. I just don't want him here.

I'll leave you to sift through dozens and dozens of unopposed posts telling you how lucky we are to have a guy who used to win things... Who knows? You may get another thread when two people post over 100 times between them telling us how wonderful he is and how swimmingly things are going.

I know that will be wonderful for you. Personal experience has taught me that one never quite feels as if one is watching Bill Murray when one secretly agrees with every word

Chill out Brian. Get yourself a drink. I hear there is a nice Tequila flavored pale ale you may want to try. Pour a few port-and-lemons in too. You never know who'll be popping round.

See you on the EitC thread.

David Cash
85 Posted 06/01/2021 at 18:53:20
Lol. I'll give you three days - Max.

You need a good growl like the rest of us need oxygen.

Grumpy bastard

Barry Thompson
87 Posted 06/01/2021 at 19:51:53
Maybe the king is in the altogether – maybe not. Maybe the majority can only see the king in all his finery and maybe a minority can already see a swinging dick.

Me, I'm currently still in Specsavers on this one. Carlo's CV shows us all that he is a past winner of many trophies and, as such, is the most successful manager Everton have ever employed but, as Darren has continuously stated, past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

The squad that he has inherited maybe choc-full of international players but most have been bottle jobs season after season and have always fallen short when the pressure was on and maybe even Pep would struggle to get a consistent tune out of most of them.

For me, Carlo will get more time to hopefully recruit more quality into the team and see how we then go on with challenging the Sky darlings and finally landing some silverware.

Until that happens, the king may be the most successful manager that we've ever had who achieved no more than any of the previous Moshiri incumbents and the number of people looking at a swinging dick may rise quicker than a covid tier level.

Dave Abrahams
88 Posted 07/01/2021 at 10:24:38
Barry (87), good balanced post Barry and I think the same as you, Carlo has a great record, one to be admired, but realistically, as you and Darren say and I’ve said myself, there is no guarantee his success will continue here. We all know the reason, Carlo has been handicapped from the start of his takeover with a very, very poor squad and he has only just began to build his own squad, let’s see how he does in the future, praising when he deserves the applause, which he gets an abundance of on here to be honest, and letting him know when we think he has cocked up, quite a of those sceneries because no manager is infallible.

Regarding Darren (Hind), he says his piece, wears his heart on his sleeve, never sits on the fence, I’ve never met Darren but I’ll guarantee if Carlo turns it round and gets us back to where we can be, Darren won’t hide, he’ll be on here with his hands held up admitting he got it wrong. I long for that time, not to see Darren proved wrong, but to see what all Evertonians want to see, Everton back on top.

Steve Brown
89 Posted 07/01/2021 at 11:33:15
The qualifications, successes and experiences of a candidate are not relevant to the job he or she will do once they start, Interesting recruitment and selection strategy!

Following the same logic, Everton should offer the national minimum wage to new players we hope to sign next summer.

John Keating
90 Posted 07/01/2021 at 19:48:51
Steve, that's why I stupidly put young Jordan Hadaway's name forward to replace the incompetent Ancelotti. I believe being a Blue is a prerequisite to being the Everton manager, eg, Dunc, Rhino... Jordan being a Blue obviously put him in the ring.

Then I realised my mistake. Having experience is no requirement for the job and with Jordan having experience of managing Caerwys FC, well, that was a big negative.

Then, of course, having a manager getting paid is another no-no. I thought Jordan being on minimum wage might be acceptable but then I realised as he is over 17, we'd have to up his hourly rate from £4.55 to £6.45. Nightmare and well over the top.

I'm not sure where we go from here? No manager perhaps, remember we just picked our teams in the school playground between ourselves, might be better, eh?

Anyone is better than Ancelotti – even Allardyce??????

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