Long Live Hate

Friday, 19 February, 2021 59comments  |  Jump to last
"Derby Day might be one of the few examples, at least from an Evertonian's point of view, when catastrophising appears to be a proportionate response.

"Liverpool have undeniably played a part in the formation of the modern Blue ... And underwriting the whole relationship, simple hate. A pure and undiluted loathing that has become an indelible part of the Blue psyche. Loathing not of individuals, although that can sometimes be the case, but of the body, the great heaving Kopite mass.

"While the Premier League and Sky will happily promote rivalries, you are meant to wear them lightly. A kind of ‘banter lolz' sort of rivalry. In short, you're not meant to fucking hate them.

"But why not? As long as it doesn't revisit the bad old days of football's violent past, there's little wrong with loathing the neighbours."

» Read the full article at Jim Keoghan

Reader Comments (59)

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Bill Rodgers
1 Posted 20/02/2021 at 15:45:20
Why not? Because hating LFC has made EFC into second-raters. Hating them has become more important than winning. To be more specific, the entire club - its owners, management, backroom and supporters - decided that hating LFC was so important that for 50 years Everton have chased the next quick fix. One after another. Whether it's a new manager, spending tons - a return to greatness was, and is, always around the corner without any of the nasty business of accepting what needs to be done and spending time and effort rebuilding from scratch. It's never been done because the next scrap with LFC is all that matters. It is a recipe for being permanently feeble.
Thomas Richards
2 Posted 20/02/2021 at 15:48:36
I hate them.
Paul Smith
3 Posted 20/02/2021 at 15:51:49
Hatred never ends well and Bill’s post @1has much merit but as a blue growing up in Liverpool the pain runs deep and I can help but hate them.
Barry Rathbone
4 Posted 20/02/2021 at 16:15:42
Until we overtake them or I die (more likely the latter) I will detest them.

Not only have they blighted my life as a football supporter their litany of criminality has portrayed the city in a dreadful light fueling the scouse scally stereotype far more than crap tv series produced in the area

I might add it isn't individuals most are ordinary, reasonable folk one to one it is the heinous entity they become when together.

The only saving grace is the entire country and probably most parts of Europe feel the same.

Paul Birmingham
5 Posted 20/02/2021 at 16:25:06
Destiny, fate but the CT, semi, in 1977, countless spawny goals, in them days and 1985, have it in my DNA, and that was a long time ago.

Matters since for EFC, in the scale of time have not kicked on but now in this era, I’m hopeful of better days for Everton Football Club.

But my loathing of the RS, will go into eternity.

Dave Ganley
6 Posted 20/02/2021 at 16:55:22
Barry Rathbone #4 nail on head totally. I've got plenty of mates who are RS fans and we discuss football amicably, collectively though its a completely different scenario. Its like they're injected with a severe dose of gobshiteness. Horrible bastards they are collectively. Not happy unless they're rubbing someone's noses in it.

As you say though, the rest of the country are finally realising what gobshites they are

Stan Schofield
7 Posted 20/02/2021 at 22:17:57
This is an issue only so long as we fail to achieve being an elite side, winning trophies like we did in the 60s and 80s.

Once we achieve that, the RS will not matter to us. They shouldn’t matter now, but their supporters are such ungracious winners and bad losers that it’s impossible for them not to matter.

For me, whenever we’ve been top dog, I’ve seldom had a passing thought for the RS, because they lay low and stay quiet. That’s all that we want.

Paul Kernot
8 Posted 20/02/2021 at 23:23:03
Bill #1. You make a very valid point but, as per posters above have said & particularly if you started watching Everton in the 60's as a lot of us did, it just isn't that simple. As a grown man, I know it's irrational. Anyone not from Liverpool & not of my generation can't & won't ever understand it & I don't expect them to. Doesn't change the fact though.
William MacLean
9 Posted 21/02/2021 at 05:46:58
Passion, yes. Guts, yes, Courage, yes, Hate, never. We do not descend to those planes. As a club we keep it above that.

I am as passionate an Evertonian as the rest of you (and I write this after the first win at Anfield in 22 years. I was at Uni when Kevin Campbell scored the winner, and surrounded by Mancs as I wore my blue top, with a bag of Everton mints watching the 1995 FA Cup Final). No room for hate. Ever. COYB, and let's win at Anfield next year!

Micky Norman
10 Posted 21/02/2021 at 19:20:26
As a kid in the 60’s I occasionally went to see them with my red mates but could never actually bring myself to cheer for them. There were plenty of mixed families around though. Everything changed after Heysel and then the Houllier/ Benitez years. Those two just didn’t understand the complex relationship between us and them. And Dalglish saw it to be too much like the Celtic/Rangers shite of his homeland. LFC gave Thatcher the perfect excuse to twist the knife into the city even more and football supporters everywhere. The results were the cages we stood in and we know what that led to. I don’t hate them. But I do hate the way they seem to attract a particular type of gobshite. Especially the ones who have never set foot in the city.
Roy Gardner
11 Posted 21/02/2021 at 19:57:04
My first game was seeing Everton beat Villa in 1966-67. We were there against West Brom in 1970 - what great memories. The road I grew up in, in West Derby, we were all Everton fans. But I remember the birthday parties we had as children, when we would chant round the table for Everton and Liverpool. It seemed like the whole world revolved around the city in the 60s. My Dad, a life-long Everton fan, and on their books in the late 1940s, used to say it was good for the city when both teams were doing well. And as a teenager, in the 70s, I would alternate between Goodison one week and then stand on the Kop with a season-ticket mate, the next. (Including one derby, with my blue and white scarf. Don’t think I would have the nerve now!) I don’t hate them, even now. But I can’t abide the collective whining and whinging if something doesn’t go their way. And I still blame them for not letting us go on to great things in Europe post-Heysel. But hate? They are not worth it!
Neil Copeland
12 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:04:55
I find it very difficult not to detest those fucking horrible bunch of moronic gobshite twats. As others have said, bearable as individuals, complete bunch of self pity, arrogant, self righteous, obnoxious shits.
Dave Abrahams
13 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:06:09
I hate them as a mass, the author is correct there, but individually I’ve got Red mates that I cherish, but not when it comes to football, they are different, see the rivalry in a different way to us and let’s get this straight as well, for all the success they have had over many years they fuckin’ hate us just as much as we hate and loathe them, yesterday’s victory will not be accepted by many of them, especially the armchair SKY Red supporters, they take everything as gospel that the media feed them with, even quote them word for word.

The author is right again, even if we win plenty of silverware for the next twenty years we will hate them,I’ll be in the “ Naughty Corner” in Heaven twice a year for some of that time if it happens but God will understand, he will say to me “ You’re right really to hate them, but rules are rules” and give me a smile.

Brian Murray
14 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:18:43
Even after heysel and they making fun of us ( nec stands for no European cup jibes ) With Hillsboro and now klopps mum dying we have tried to do the decent thing as human beings but they can’t help themselves even in their hour of glory. Graffiti on our statues and liver building firework attacks. All very juvenile but they are a very different species always have been.
Thomas Richards
15 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:22:58

The majority of them love us for two weeks of the year only.

Evertonians have backed them unconditionally for 30 years in thier fight.Rightly so.
The ones that matter know that.

The others thank us then quickly revert to hating us.

Brian Murray
16 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:30:08
Feelings mutual. Ok let’s put it another way, on my 58 years on this earth I have never seen title celebrations turn to pandemonium whoever has win it. Fighting throwing glasses intimidating ambulance staff trying to help. All amongst themselves which is daft putting it mildly. That’s before we get to the Man City coach disgrace and god knows how a kid or anyone wasn’t blinded that night. Pep was far too nice about it. Fergie or Jose would of made sure they was thrown out the competition ( again )
John McFarlane Snr
17 Posted 21/02/2021 at 20:43:23
Hi Roy [11] I take it that your Dad was Tom Gardner, a couple of years before my time, I've just looked his record up and it states, South Liverpool, Liverpool [October 1946] Everton [June 1947 to May 1948.] 1 appearance.

Tom Gardner failed to make Liverpool's first team and played once for Everton, partnering Eddie Wainwright in the home League game against Wolves in October 1947, when 46,000 fans saw the 1-1 draw. I think that you must be proud to know that he was considered good enough by both teams, and that he was never on the losing side for the 'Blues' not many can say that, the only one I can recall is Ross Jack, he scored a goal in his one appearance against Middlesbrough away in a 2-1 win, in March 1967.

Roy Gardner
18 Posted 21/02/2021 at 21:11:38
John [17] Good of you to look it up, but Dad was Jim Gardner.

The story is that, after the war, he was a goalkeeper in the Everton system. No idea how it worked then. In the 60s it was the Youth, B Team, A Team, Reserves, then the First Team. Not sure how far he progressed, but Everton wanted to keep him on.

In those long lost days, they were required to ask the parents first. Nana and Grandad apparently said no, unequivocally, as it was not a well-renumerated job in those days, Dad had no idea, and just thought Everton were letting him go. Mid-60s they told him. Can't imagine how that must have felt!

Peter Gorman
19 Posted 21/02/2021 at 21:23:44
As Nigel Benn might say, "Personally, I do hate them".
Roy Gardner
20 Posted 21/02/2021 at 21:31:03
Btw John [17], which website did you find the record of Tom Gardner on? Sounds like something well worth exploring!
Paul Hewitt
21 Posted 21/02/2021 at 21:46:04
As a kid, I couldn't stand them. But getting older means I've realized they don't really matter. Far more things to worry about, than a football club.
Thomas Richards
23 Posted 21/02/2021 at 21:51:53

I was just thinking. It is irrational for a man of my age to hate a football club. I genuinely try to see the best in people, give them the benefit of the doubt. With this breed, I can't do that.

Dont get me wrong. I have got red mates who have been on to congratulate and say we were the better side. All of them season ticket holders.
Sadly, they are a tiny minority of thier fans. They hate us and in return we hate them.

Neil Copeland
24 Posted 21/02/2021 at 22:20:42
Thomas #23, spot on.
Shane Corcoran
25 Posted 21/02/2021 at 22:23:04
I can just about fathom scousers hating them.

Non scouser fans hating them makes little sense to me.

Dennis Stevens
26 Posted 21/02/2021 at 22:28:03
I haven't got the energy to hate anybody, but I do rather despise that club & many of their gobshite fans. Nonetheless, I've known many reds that are sound.
Liam Mogan
27 Posted 21/02/2021 at 22:33:16
"This Means More'

Feck right off, you uber capitalist behemoth, win by any means, humility free zone, Euro League power-grabbing, offended by everything, ashamed of nothing, vile and deceitful shower. The mephistophelian manifestation of all that is wrong with modern football and modern football fans.

You are undeserving of my hate.

John McFarlane Snr
28 Posted 22/02/2021 at 12:39:56
Hi Roy [18 & 20] apologies for the mistaken identity, however you should still be proud of your Dad, to get to the stage of having a potential future in football is a real achievement. I gained the information from the book "Who's who of Everton." [Tony Matthews 2004].
Teddy Draper
29 Posted 22/02/2021 at 22:24:53
No matter what the scores have been in derbies ( 0-2 4-0 1-1 0-0 ) the cold hard facts are " kopites are still Gobshites.
Dale Self
30 Posted 22/02/2021 at 23:02:32
Shane, I could explain that but it would be best understood with a Guinness or scotch on the rocks. The sickness has spread to the States I'll just say that.
John Keating
31 Posted 22/02/2021 at 00:05:21
I wish I could say I didn’t hate them but getting it every day non stop for years from dickheads who don’t even know where Anfield is wears you down.
The early 60’s were a bit easier but when the knobheads like Hughes came on the scene things slowly started to change.
Their European success giving the worldwide exposure only inflamed their entitlement
We now have an entire generation in the City who have never been to a game as half their season tickets are owned by Thomas Cook!
I’m lucky we’re all Blues, apart from one red cousin, and nobody talks to him!
As stated by others collectively, or even in a group of two, they are arseholes. Individually they’re still pricks!
Michael Lynch
32 Posted 23/02/2021 at 00:15:44
For a number of reasons, often related to the timing of their peaks and troughs as clubs, the RS represent everything that is bad about the city - self-pity, arrogance, blame-culture, a particular kind of preening self-righteousness, excessive sentimentality, and wallowing in a victim mentality, whereas Everton represent everything that is good about the city - community, generosity, self-deprecating gallows humour, warmth and outward looking starry-eyed hope for a better future, even when the odds seem stacked against it.

Derek Thomas
33 Posted 23/02/2021 at 00:55:15
It never used to be like this, but in my mind it started with Tommy Smith, he was the first, the proto rs, patient zero.
Funds allowing I used to to with red mates to fill a Saturday afternoon and can reel off the names even now...but looking back, they never went to Goodison hardly at all...hmm?

There was an old saying, so old I can't remember how old, which summed them up in a not quite nasty, but deadly accurate warts and all, play on the word tell ...'you can always tell a kopite - but not much.' - and its true on both counts.

I think they only pretended to buy into the veiled anti Thatcher 'Merseyside' of the League Cup Final, there may have been elements of what is called 'Head-Pattery' in it

A South African I met once described it as...you're only biased against the rs if you hate them more than you should...only he didn't mean biased and the colour wasn't red.

But as Dave said, it isn't the individual family and friends, twice a year. It's the whole collective (why does the words Borg and Cult come to mind?) every day of the year.

Apropos of nothing, back in the day some sections of them used to get on 'well'...cross Pennine, reciprocal trips to pubs and social clubs 'well' with Leeds fans - by their friends shall ye know them.

Oh and I don't know about you, but you'll struggle to find a red item bigger than a tomato in my house...and I don't eat those either and anything thing they did or have sponsored, I immediately stopped used and never used again.

But I'm not really bitter, just wise to their perfidiousness.

Phil Bellis
34 Posted 23/02/2021 at 01:19:05
Dave (6), Shane (25)

I've had Blues from Canada, NZ, Turkey, Bakofthevanistan etc messaging "made up, at last, the bastards" after the match

However, I've had lots more from mates who support Southend, West Ham, Rotherham, Reading, Arsenal, Newcastle et al who are so pleased for us, adding they can't stand the entitled f'ers

They aren't living alongside the nasty neighbours (can't get a ticket for dem tourists!) but, still, have sussed them out

Kopites have no idea ( cos of the red-dominated "meeja") how other real fans despise their club and their supporters

Bill Watson
35 Posted 23/02/2021 at 02:25:55
A Blue for 63 years but I don't actually hate the RS; it's more a loathing and detestation of that totally unprincipled, money grubbing, club and their teleclapper fans.
Simon Dalzell
36 Posted 23/02/2021 at 02:28:18
Shane (25). I don't how you work that out. you don't need to be scouse. They are a repulsive stain on humanity, loathed all over the country, Europe, world. Arrogant, condescending, loud mouthed, abhorrent, ignorant, often aggressive specimens. I despise them with a passion. Individually, one or two are almost tolerable. Collectively, a dark force of evil.
Mike Gaynes
37 Posted 23/02/2021 at 03:28:30
Hey folks, quick question... regarding "hate" has there ever been genuine gang violence between Everton and Liverpool fans, like what happened a couple of years ago at Anfield with the Roma supporters?

I played semipro for years with a former Birmingham hooligan who would occasionally lift his shirt and show off the stab wound scars he got from a Villa fan back in the '80s.

Just wondered if any of you carry similar scars.

Derek Thomas
38 Posted 23/02/2021 at 08:06:36
Mike @ 37; not as far as I know, there will no doubt, have been more than the odd 1 on 1, but nothing organised... they save that for Man City buses.
John Keating
39 Posted 23/02/2021 at 08:37:06
Mike I remember a game at Goodison in the 80’s when there was trouble after walking down Everton Valley. It certainly wasn’t organised just flared up
I heard it carried on into town and in a few pubs there.
Certainly been more antagonistic at the actual games after segregation was brought in. Few more issues on the walks home too
Must admit though, personally, never seen or heard of anything organised
Mike Gaynes
40 Posted 23/02/2021 at 14:16:51
Derek and John, thanks, that's good to know.
Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 23/02/2021 at 15:15:31
Bill (35), Bill been meaning to ask you for quite a while but are you any relation to a former manager of Liverpool, Bill Watson, he is long gone, buried at Anfield cemetery, he was from the North East, he managed Liverpool FC from 1895 to 1912, he also played and managed Sunderland FC.
Anthony Jones
42 Posted 23/02/2021 at 19:43:11
Liverpool FC are a laughing stock outside of Merseyside. They are considered loutish, arrogant whingers.

They can take their brand and fuck right off.

Paul Johnson
43 Posted 25/02/2021 at 09:33:51
I think, Anthony, you hit the nail on the head. They are not a football club but a brand that people want to be associated with.

I personally detest the club, primarily because they have never shown any humility for Heysel, not just for depriving a fine Everton team of the chance to become Champions of Europe but for 39 innocent football fans for dying on their watch.

I laugh at the blind arrogance and misplaced faith. Their share owners don't give a fuck about anything except the top line re treatment of the local community around Anfield when looking to free up land to extend their shithole.

I, like many, have lots of friends and associates who follow Liverpool and, at the risk of a sound bite, only a couple of handfuls get what it is about. The rest are just riding the train til they get to their stop.

Laurie Hartley
44 Posted 25/02/2021 at 10:06:44
Not into hating but I must admit I can't stand them😇

Fortunately a Man Utd friend has provided me with the antidote - laughter!

Any excuse will do

Rob Halligan
45 Posted 25/02/2021 at 10:38:59
The RS are known as “The Tourist Club” for a reason.

Did you know in a stadium with a capacity with 54K+, they only have 27K season ticket holders, yet they keep on harping on about have a huge season ticket waiting list. The reason is very simple, out of the other 27K tickets, there are thousands of tickets that are sold as part of a package. Various travel companies sell them in a package which includes a weekend stay in Liverpool, it’s why all the hotels in the city are fully booked whenever they play at home. RS fans can also travel on a day trip from all over the country which also includes a ticket. The club know that by selling tickets on a match by match basis, they will generate a lot more money than if that ticket is sold as “A Season Ticket”

Quite simply, that club doesn’t give a monkeys about local fans, never have done, never will. I could tell you some stories about how they treat local fans, but that’s for another day!

Chris Williams
46 Posted 25/02/2021 at 10:54:08

That’s a staggering stat about the season tickets. Whenever I got into a debate with a local RS fan, I always asked them whether they went to the match. The answer was invariably No, there’s no tickets available. I hadn’t ever realised the reason why.

A few years ago there was some social media stuff circulating involving local supporters banging on about the huge number of people at the match interested only in taking selfies, and making sure they didn’t lose any of their many bags of club merchandise. Saying they weren’t real supporters.

I thought at the time it was a bit mean spirited but I hadn’t envisaged the extent of it.

I’m a bit surprised they managed to scrape together the small numbers allowed in for a short period pre Christmas

Brian Murray
47 Posted 25/02/2021 at 11:18:58
The hate goes two ways and now you can add nasty jealousy over Bramley-Moore Dock. They can have as many loft conversions as they want but polish a turd and it's still that. Less than 6 thousand season ticket holders from this area says it all.
Rob Halligan
48 Posted 25/02/2021 at 11:32:32
Brian, I’ve heard and read about the number of season ticket holders they have with a Liverpool postcode, and thought “Nah, that can’t be right”.


Rob Halligan
49 Posted 25/02/2021 at 11:41:39
If you manage to view that Twitter page, scroll down a bit and you’ll see a RS fan blaming the new premier league ball for their defeat last Saturday. We seemed to cope ok with it!! 😀😀😀
Thomas Richards
50 Posted 25/02/2021 at 11:42:58
The ball. The wind.

Have they ever lost a game because the opposition were better on the day?

Brian Harrison
51 Posted 25/02/2021 at 11:51:14
Given the headline of this post its probably not the right place to post this but I have just read that their keeper Alisson, his father drowned yesterday when out swimming in a lake only 57.
Brian Williams
52 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:16:05
Don't get me started!
Brian Murray
53 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:33:25
Rob post 48. Apparently they play spot the scouser on the kop !
Ernie Baywood
54 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:35:42
If it's not hatred then I don't know what hatred is. I hate everything about that club.

But I've got red mates, red family, red colleagues. Most of them are okay. I don't feel the need to key cars, smash windows or vandalise monuments.

I guess it's all a bit irrational. Except I've got a list of perfectly rational (to me) reasons for hating them.

Brian Murray
55 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:40:55
Couldn’t stand Moyes or his cosy relationship with his side kick but loved his people’s club remark which really to this day really gets to them. I’m sure when we really turning the screw deep into our bmd homes as we lift our second consecutive premier league the club will never forget it’s roots and second to none away following. Ok getting a bit teary eyed there. Don’t know where that came from because I’m not the worlds greatest Evertonian and started life in the st end not boys pen 😅
Ernie Baywood
56 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:42:48
While we're on irrational stuff. I've been mocked for this theory but I wonder if anyone on here is on board...

You know when you need an extra 5 a side player? And someone brings a mate.

On the occasions they bring an Evertonian - it's 90% they'll be at least a serviceable player. If they're a red it's a 75% chance they can't kick a ball. If they're a red from somewhere other than Merseyside then it's head in hands time before you reach the pitch. 100% fail rate.

Bulletproof theory.

They attract non football people. If you loved the game, how could you support that lot?

Ray Robinson
57 Posted 25/02/2021 at 12:58:18
Don't know about the football ability argument Ernie but I've never met an Evertonian who isn't totally committed and knows who they're playing in the next match, whereas some "Liverpudlians" wouldn't know the score in their last game. They're not all like that of course. Have got Red friends and Reds in the family - and they're all totally sound people and loyal supporters. It's just that we don't attract the hangers-on. Never really understood why my dad was a Red and yet I turned out Blue.
Jay Wood

58 Posted 25/02/2021 at 13:20:10
Never bought into 'hate' as a worthwhile emotion to expend negative energy on towards anyone or anything.

I prefer a much healthier option to things and people I find distasteful.


Pisses them off a whole lot more.

Steve Carter
59 Posted 26/02/2021 at 02:12:57
Nobody has mentioned Shankly as the father of 'this' ("There's two great teams in Liverpool - Liverpool and Liverpool reserves", etc.), encouraging the likes of Emlyn Hughes to sprout off.
Alan J Thompson
60 Posted 26/02/2021 at 03:53:23
Steve(#59); I can't remember when it was made but I remember something similar being said about Everton in the Wednesday Play- "The Golden Vision". It might be interesting to compare who said what first. In the play it was said;"I support both teams" and after looks of disbelief, "Everton and Everton reserves".

There was also, "Who played for Everton one week and Liverpool the next but no transfer fee was involved? St Martins band"

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