Huddersfield 1 - 2 Everton
Everton are into the third round of the Carabao Cup but they were pushed all the way by Championship side Huddersfield Town, particularly after Moise Kean was harshly sent off just before the hour mark.
Alex Iwobi had set the Blues on their way to what appeared as though it might be a routine victory with a goal midway through the first half, especially when Kean thought he had doubled the lead only for his goal to be chalked off for offside but poor set-piece defending allowed the Terriers back into on the stroke of half-time.
Kean's dismissal for an altercation just moments after the hosts had a goal disallowed for a perceived infringement seemed to signal an ominous turn of the contest in Huddersfield's favour but Andros Townsend struck 11 minutes from time to send Everton through.
Rafael Benitez made a raft of changes to his line-up, handing opportunities to a number of players who have been fringe members of the first team so far.
Kean was given striking responsibilities in the absence of Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, neither of whom were in the squad, while Asmir Begovic made his competitive debut for the club and Jean-Philippe Gbamin made his first start in an Everton jersey for two years.
Jarrad Branthwaite also made the team for the first time in 12 months following an ankle injury and then a loan spell at Blackburn while Niels Nkounkou got a chance to shine in the competition in which he did so well last season. Ben Godfrey travelled but was not included in the 18-man squad.
Everton carried all the early threat and came close to opening the scoring inside five minutes. Kean cut out a poor back-pass by Thomas and advanced to the Huddersfield box but fired disappointingly wide.
A minute later, Iwobi drove forward and fed Nkounkou who crossed low to the near post where Kean slid in to stab it goalwards but Lee Nicholls got down to make a one-handed save to keep it out.
Two more interceptions of sloppy Terriers passes in their own half threatened to let the visitors in but Townsend dragged an ill-advised and poor shot wide before Kean dribbled into a forest of legs in the area and his chance was lost.
A great ball by Jonjoe Kenny then found Davies free in space in the 19th minute but Nkounkou lashed his cross high over the bar. However, Benitez's men only had to wait another seven minutes before they took the lead.
Davies again found himself in oceans of space between defenders from Townsend's knock-on and this time he had time to push the ball in behind for Iwobi who made no mistake with an emphatic finish past the keeper.
Two minutes after that, a storming run by Nkounkou ended with him prodding the ball through for Kean and another one-on-one situation with Nicholls but the referee blew for a very, very tight offside ruling just as the Italian hammered the ball home for what he thought would be the goal that opened his account for the season.
At the other end, Daniel Sinani really should have levelled for the home side in the 34th minute, though, when Thomas got behind the Blues' defence down the right flank and crossed but while Begovic parried Sinani's first-time effort, he pushed it straight back to the forward who blazed over with the goal at his mercy.
Nkounkou had another sight of goal six minutes before the break when he ghosted in at the back post to meet a deep cross but couldn't keep it down and it flew well over off his shin.
Huddersfield grew in confidence, though, and after Frazer Campbell had shot narrowly wide after dispossessing Gbamin, the Terriers eventually got their equaliser after Sinani's curling effort had been headed wide by Holgate.
The resulting corner was whipped in where Tom Lees lost Michael Keane and rose unchallenged to head home just before half-time.
Buoyed by that goal, Huddersfield began the second half well with the all-too-often sloppy Gbamin losing the ball cheaply in the opposition half and the hosts counter-attacking where Sinani dragged a shot across goal and wide.
The same player then bounced a searching cross just wide a few minutes later before the game turned somewhat chaotic.
Huddersfield appeared to have taken the lead off another poorly-defended set-piece after Begovic had tipped Holmes's curling effort over but Pearson's "goal" was wiped out, harshly in retrospect, by referee Matt Donohue's whistle for a supposed foul by Campbell.
Three minutes later, Kean reacted badly to a barge by Holmes and was, ridiculously, sent off while his opponent was only booked for a tête-à-tête in the centre circle.
Benitez had already withdrawn Branthwaite in favour of André Gomes and the Spaniard then took Davies off for Lucas Digne and later introduced Demarai Gray for Nkounkou as Everton chased a winner to avoid a penalty shootout.
They did indeed take the lead again in the 79th minute thanks to a wonderfully-worked goal. Gomes and Digne exchanged passes on the left before the former picked up a return pass from Iwobi, drove to the byline and fired in a low cross where Townsend was lurking in front of the defender to sweep the ball high into the net.
Gray had a chance in stoppage time to put the result beyond doubt but Nicholls beat away his shot from a tight angle.
Ultimately, it was a much closer-run thing than it needed to be for Everton, with almost none of the players on show from the start, apart from Iwobi, coming out of the match with much credit.
Townsend atoned for what was a pretty ineffective display with the crucial second goal, Nkounkou was lively going forward but often didn't impress in his own half and none of the more senior defenders in the side — Keane, Holgate and Kenny — ripped up any trees against inferior opposition.
In midfield, Davies had an up-and-down game but at least weighed in with an assist but Gbamin betrayed two years of rust with a ponderous performance littered with errors while, up front, Kean, despite a fine finish for what should have been his first goal of the season, showed once more how ill-suited he is to the role of lone striker and how his temperament has the potential to hold him back.
Still, despite the obvious concerns over the squad's depth that the performance raised, the important thing was that Everton lived to fight another day and ensured that their name will be in the hat for the draw for the next round.
Man of the Match: Alex Iwobi
Reader Comments (224)
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1 Posted 24/08/2021 at 18:54:19
2 Posted 24/08/2021 at 18:58:07
3 Posted 24/08/2021 at 18:58:26
4 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:03:21
5 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:06:45
6 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:07:40
I dont think Rafa is arsed about the league cup then. Not having Richarlison and DCL on the bench is also a massive risk. He loses this and the fans who never wanted him in the first place, will be right on his back. Brave or naive? Well see.
Ill hope for the best but I now expect the worst having seen the defence. Absolutely horrific having Keane Holgate and Kenny together.
Only consolation to that defence is that I get to see Gbamin, Nkounkou and how Branthwaite does.
Where is Godfrey ffs ?
7 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:10:22
8 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:13:33
I would hope Davies and Gbamin are well stoked to be starting with something to prove before the manager.
Interesting that Iwobi gets a start again ahead of Gomes who is possibly still behind on fitness from (presumably...) being one of those isolating from Covid, or he is way down Rafa's pecking order and the clubs is looking to move him on before this transfer window closes.
It will also be interesting to view how 'enthused' Moise Kean is to be playing at Huddersfield on a Tuesday night.
Missed the Leeds-Everton game due to being in a rural wifi dead zone, so looking forward to this.
9 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:14:32
10 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:15:06
11 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:15:09
12 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:15:36
13 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:18:37
14 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:18:54
The defence terrifies me but ahead of that I feel pretty comfortable. Surprised Gordon doesnt make the bench though.
15 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:23:01
Kean must be relishing the chance to show his stuff at the John Smiths Stadium after his exploits with Neymar in the Champions League last season.
16 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:27:30
17 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:28:18
18 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:32:53
Breaking news story on the BBC.
This will now give Richy a MUCH needed break. All the more so that, due to the South America Covid situation, a block of WC qualifying games earlier this year was completely postponed. They have two fixtures to catch up on and in the upcoming international break Brazil - like all regional international teams - are scheduled to play not the usual TWO international games, but THREE! Away to Chile on Thursday 2 September, home to Argentina Sunday the 5th, home to Peru Thursday 9th, with Everton due to play Burnley at home on Monday 13th.
Colombia and Mina (+ James..?) face a similar schedule. Two away games to Bolivia and Paraguary, then home to Chile.
19 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:35:26
Thanks in advance for any help!
20 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:41:48
How was Messi's move to PSG received in Argentina?
I've got this very good live link for the game now. Later, I don't know.
The club now shows the entire game on the club site a day or two after the event if you have the membership, but I don't know if that is for cup games as well as the PL games.
¡Buena suerte hermano!
21 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:43:52
22 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:54:33
23 Posted 24/08/2021 at 19:55:59
Honestly, there's no good answer in terms of how best to approach these Cup ties. We played mostly full-strength lineups last season and Allan ended up getting hurt, which proved a significant setback.
24 Posted 24/08/2021 at 20:17:01
25 Posted 24/08/2021 at 20:42:22
26 Posted 24/08/2021 at 20:42:26
Townsend very sloppy. Davies anonymous and sloppy. Nkounkou is giving their winger and rightback, nightmares.
The goal conceded was the result of inviting pressure on to us through not controlling the midfield. We dont need 3 at the back, we need 3 in the middle. How Keane 63, Branthwaite 65 and Holgate 61 allow someone a free header like that is awful. Theres not a leader or a dominant aggressive defender amongst Holgate Keane or Kenny. We need Mina on as well Id say.
We need a 2 centre backs off, Mina on to dominate and get Gray out wide and put Iwobi in the 10.
Were not playing well at all but Huddersfield are abysmal and theyre there for the taking, even with our starting 11.
27 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:12:27
28 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:35:20
29 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:44:06
30 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:44:13
31 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:46:19
In my book, it doesnt matter how big your centre halves are. Ours were more than big enough tonight, like you said. But if you let a striker run and jump, hes often going to win that header against a static defender. Our goalkeeper was kept on the goal line by the presence of their striker also.
I couldnt see anything wrong with the one they had disallowed either.
Why do managers persist with this bloody zonal marking? Man to man marking. Put a man on each post. Oh, and leave someone on the halfway line for when it gets cleared.
We are back to the days of bringing everyone back for corners and zonal marking. FFS!!
32 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:47:47
Spreading the goals around
Next round now.
33 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:49:09
Two perfectly good goals disallowed and a sending off that should never have happened.
And we scrape through where once we'd have crumbled and gone out embarrassingly.
Not pretty but a few questions answered.
34 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:49:36
35 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:50:23
Without Calvert-Lewin, we didn't win one header up front all night...
We couldn't have complained if we lost.
36 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:51:00
37 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:51:25
38 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:51:48
Yes he gets clipped/bumped by the Huddersfield player after he played the ball, but he then runs after the opponent, bumps him, then goes head to head with him, and then raises his hands.
And all within about 2 metres of the referee.
39 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:54:50
Agree that the Moise Kean red card looked harsh; Thomas (the Huddersfield #16) was trying to get our players in trouble all night, including a ridiculous claim that Tom Davies deliberately struck him in the face. Delighted that his histrionics ultimately failed. COYB!
40 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:57:26
I think Rafa will consider that job done...So will I
41 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:57:31
We were well on top and in control for most of the first half and with VAR would probably have been comfortably 2-0 up with Kean's lovely goal following Nkounkou's storming run.
It was poor and frustrating to concede from a corner to a bread and butter cross to the centre of our six yard box. I wonder if the absence of Dom and Richy and their clearing headers at the near post influenced that?
It was nearly the same again in the 2nd half from what looked a perfectly legitimate 2nd goal for the Town. On replay Campbell does make contact on Begovic, but was also stood in front of him in an offside position from the header. My match commentary says the 4th official explained it was for the foul, not any offside interfering with play.
Did Moise's reaction really merit a red? Fair do's to the ref. He couldn't have been much closer to the incident, but it was more a barge than a lashing out of arms or fists. AND the free kick was awarded to us.
Thomas, who provoked Kean, was a bit of a snide having earlier gone down as if his nose was spread across his face when Tom Davies barely breathed on him.
Rafa's changes were all proactive, even when reduced to 10 men. Going to a flat back four and reinforcing midfield AND still looking to win the game rather than hold what he had.
All the subs made a positive contribution, never more so when all combining to create Townsend's winning goal.
A fine gritty win under challenging circumstances.
Well played the manager and the team.
42 Posted 24/08/2021 at 21:59:57
43 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:00:39
44 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:00:44
45 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:02:25
- made hard work of it as always
- preventable goals.
- Kean is a pleb
- Keane not great again
- Their goal was a goal
- we won against the tide (Rafa?)
- Kean should have had 2-0 and we'd have gone on to 4-5 easy
- Townsend, Iwobi, Gray
- Gbamin 90
- Gomes looks like he wants a place again.
- good runout for the wider squad
All-in-all, I'm buzzing. As much as my heart says no, I may actually be able to warm to Rafa if we keep fighting like this.
46 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:03:22
As for the Huddersfield disallowed goal, the linesman put his flag up. Campbell was directly in front of Begovic, directly in line with the header, and the ball went within about a foot of his head on it's way to goal. That's offside.
47 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:04:52
We're through, job done. I'll take that all day.
48 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:05:56
No Rodriguez so he must be in the window. Kean getting sent off isn't good. Let frustration get the better of him. Really needs to knuckle down and get silly notions out of his head. Davies and Iowbi played well, hope the latter is okay.
Gbamin, who needed time, now needs game time. Still hoping he comes good. . . but expectations are not reality.
49 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:10:25
50 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:12:08
51 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:12:18
Fair play to Rafa, and this Everton teams has shown more belief and grit and positivity in a few games so far, than in the previous managers time in charge.
A bit of luck and some good dealing, and hopefully a few incoming players and a few going the other way.
Good night for Everton, and the same again at Brighton.
52 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:14:01
Kean not really a red but he made the ref have a decision to make. Will he knuckle down and show a desire to play for us or will he sulk and keep everything crossed for a move?
If PSG sell Mbappé, they will have change enough to either buy him or Ronaldo. Tough call...
53 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:16:04
Apart from finishing his chance for our first goal, which Davies put on a plate for him, what else did he do what makes you say he played well?
Gray was on for 10 mins and looked more of a goal theat for me!
54 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:16:06
I question Rafa's commitment to this cup. He could've fielded a stronger side but chose to gamble because it's just the League Cup. Luckily the gamble paid off. We won't win the Premier League, so why prioritise that?
55 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:17:45
The only good thing about tonight was the result.
Michael Keane loses his concentration totally for the 3rd game in a row and the rest of the team were a shambles.
Only Moise Kean looked half arsed and he got himself sent off for a petulant reaction.
Our passing was woeful and our shape was very poor.
My first big disappointment under the overweight foreign caterer.
56 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:25:08
57 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:26:56
I have to give Benitez a lot of credit for getting the result tonight because his substitutions were positive and spot on. We needed to get back on the front foot after Kean was stupidly sent off and we eventually did.
Question marks all over the pitch but I think Benitez's ability to change what was going on on the field should be applauded.
58 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:27:24
We get a winner away from home with 10 men (our second string) and this is your first disappointment?
59 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:37:44
60 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:39:14
61 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:40:31
Like Silva, he's earning plaudits for playing direct, attacking football, even though we look vulnerable defensively... with the old zonal marking demons even rearing their ugly head again. On the other hand, we seem to have more mental toughness under Rafa, and he has a better grasp on things tactically, which are both causes for optimism.
Kean's Everton tenure is starting to feel a bit cursed. Some will say a lot of it is his own doing, but having a perfectly good goal disallowed, then getting hit with a soft red is a pretty unfortunate combination.
62 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:41:40
Get a grip, mate – he played a weakened team that still should've been good enough to beat them and made the right changes to get us the win when necessary.
Moise Kean buried his offside goal well but, that apart, did absolutely nothing.
Turn it in with the negativity, looking for any excuse to have a go at Rafa, his subs and changes have just won us the game with 10 men.
The time to moan is when we get beat, mate.
63 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:42:27
A bit over the top considering seven players started their first game of the season, and give Benitez a chance instead of insulting him.
64 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:43:19
I echo everything you said there. Made 9 changes and down to 10 men... but still managed to get the win.
Into the hat is all that matters.
65 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:44:45
Only caught the 2nd half but, based on that, Rafa will now have an idea about the 2nd string or lack of depth and quality on that showing.
Keane needs to be dropped and or sold as we need to play a slightly higher line and he is having a nightmare at the moment.
Thought Digne and Gomes done well when they came on and Gray may well be a very shrewd signing indeed.
All in all reinforcements are needed, we can all play fantasy football but right-back, quick dominant centre-back, pacy winger-cum-striker needed.
Let's see what the next week brings; hopefully 3 more points and few ins and outs.
66 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:45:34
The smelling salts have been out since the last manager left, and there's a sense of reality and belief that hasn't been seen for a long time at Everton.
Good substitutions and improved game management. Not a classic but a win's a win, despite the bulk of the team tonight not taking the opportunity to stake a claim for a squad place for Brighton.
Now to beat Brighton.
67 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:46:39
Surely in the long run, his position will be left side of midfield, rather than left-back.
68 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:51:15
I don't think any of them took their chance to shine and prove that they should be in the first-team squad. Still way too early in the season to make any definitive statements, but centre-back is a very obvious problem, as demonstrated in all three games.
69 Posted 24/08/2021 at 22:56:47
70 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:00:55
Overall, I thought the game showed the same problem we had last season with a poor squad. We need a right-back as Kenny is never going to replace Coleman, who is getting past his best. We also need a quality midfielder and, if we can't get one, James may be used but I don't think he will, so we will be weak in this area.
This game, with the knowledge we have about the financial position we are, in shows the job Benitez has is not going to be easy, so any win is a good result – no matter how we struggle to get it.
Today, the only ones that showed they will be okay as subs to the first 11 were the keeper and Nkounkou.
71 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:05:49
I'm warming to Rafa...
72 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:09:24
Glad Benitez is here; I didn't want him when he snuck in. It's like the end of an acid trip turned sour and we have the right man in place to ensure we don't do anything mad again.
I think Benitez is the right man at the right time. I just wish the League Cup mattered to him. It's the way to our hearts.
73 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:17:28
Totally agree with all your observations. Kenny is very similar to all the younger players who have been introduced over the past two seasons. They have been given chances to show their ability and, while they may be very "nice" lads, none of them have proved to have more than average ability.
Coleman is still the best right back we have at the present time. We need a Foden or a Mount to make any significant impact on the team.
74 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:17:30
75 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:17:39
They played well in shifts but poor passing by Everton kept Huddersfield thinking they could win.
It should have been all over but for an awful offside call by the linesman and of course that buoyed the home team who punished us.
Another bad official call could have been curtains for the Blues but to their credit they kept going with ten men when the home team seemed to play for penalties.
Sorry to see it but the likes of Davies and Kenny have not improved their games and Gbamin looked busy but rusty.
These are always difficult games when you don't start the strongest eleven as the nine changes made us look all at sea at times especially in our own third of the pitch.
Still, another win for Rafa.
76 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:21:21
Gbamin's first full game in two years, and you've already written him off.
77 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:29:54
Reserving judgement is a matter of infinite hope.
78 Posted 24/08/2021 at 23:41:28
79 Posted 24/08/2021 at 00:00:22
So let's take the positives, with Iwobi continuing to produce — with both the goal but also the pass to Gomes to set up the other goal — Townswend coming through in the end, Gomes and Digne coming on to save the day, and Gray putting in a tidy shift.
The less said about Moise Kean, the better, despite the nice finish that was pulled out. It's a shame that he clearly doesn't want to be here.
Referee weighing in here: There's no way anyone can tell if Kean was offside from the television angle. It was clearly close but a good chance he was clearly off if the assistant referee is in a good position.
As for the half-time goal and the one ruled offside, they were both offside, whether people like the rule or not. The actual goal was more egregious and should've been an easy call for the striker getting in Begovic's way and being way off.
The one ruled off is actually not the assistant referee's call to make; he simply says the guy was off and the referee decides whether it affected Begovic's line of sight or ability to save it.
What's amazing to me is that no Everton player knew the rule enough to even argue, but with VAR both are easy offside calls — even if both probably go in without the player in an offside position.
Feeling good about Rafa and the team. Let's hope Iwobi isn't out for too long. Also looked like Gray might be limping a bit at the end, sure hope not. Let's take down Brighton before the break. UTFT!
80 Posted 24/08/2021 at 00:00:49
Agree current zonal marking setup against set-pieces keep letting up goal. Benitez needs adapt quickly.
81 Posted 24/08/2021 at 00:03:09
I had a chat with one of the Workington players after the match and sympathised with him having to make the long drive home, he said he only had to go to Manchester, the killer was having to drive to Workington for training and home games!
I followed our game at Huddersfield on the Live Forum, which is not easy when you dont know whats going on. Sounds like it was a mixed bag, but were in the draw.
82 Posted 25/08/2021 at 00:51:58
83 Posted 25/08/2021 at 01:25:11
84 Posted 25/08/2021 at 02:13:32
Fell asleep again and it was 1-1 when I awoke.
Then ToffeeWeb went on the blink, searched for the score and found we were leading 2-1 with a goal from Townsend and it stayed that way with about 10 minutes of added-on time,
Sometimes I'm grateful for small mercies. This was one of them. Not great, apparently, but it will do me for now.
85 Posted 25/08/2021 at 04:13:27
Pretty impressive stuff. Even Tom and Gomes getting assists tonight. What's going on in midfield? What a turnaround from last season! More of the same, please. Do we even need James?
86 Posted 25/08/2021 at 04:52:05
87 Posted 25/08/2021 at 05:25:00
Messi's move to PSG? Pretty well, I believe he'll benefit greatly from it. And people here were quite fed up with Barcelona's board and ways of running the club so, although quite shocking and nostalgic as it sounds, seeing him in a new super team is a breath of fresh air for many.
Happy with our result today. Important win in odd circumstances above all. COYB!!
88 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:10:36
Mina costs us goal after goal with his grim determination to get involved in handbags. Take a look at the second goal Leeds scored on Saturday for the latest example. 1 game = 1 clanger. There are plenty of people who could teach Kean a few things, but I don't think Mina is one of them.
I have been one of Keane's biggest critics this season, but I'm not sure how he can be blamed for that goal. He was simply doing his job. Zonal marking is deeply flawed. When a group have ditched man-marking and trained all week marking space, defenders are not doing their jobs if they go with the runners.
Zonal marking cost Silva his job. His inability to make it work sapped all the confidence out of the players who just knew we were in trouble every time we faced a corner. Everything else went to pieces. Rafa either needs to do a much better job at it, or go man for man... Otherwise, he will go the same way as Silva.
It's the preferred way of most of the top coaches but you've gorra get it right.
89 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:11:20
I'll watch the highlights and then comment more.
Before I do, just touching on Brian's (@67) comment about Nkounkou. Was it just me and my circle of Evertonian friends at the time, but remember when we couldn't figure about whether Coleman was a right back or right midfielder?
Maybe gives us options for wing back or just a modern full back?
90 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:11:25
Yes, Keane was asleep but I would seriously question the goalkeeper's role. Begovic, for a lad of his size, should be commanding the 6-yard box.
I constantly complain about Jordan Pickford's ability to do same but I did expect Begovic to be better. Yes, he did make good saves but we already have a good shot-stopper.
91 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:24:56
Ciaran – having a pop at Gbamin seems really harsh. The guy has been through injury hell, he needs minutes.
92 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:46:20
Agree with you, Darren, that zonal marking is a problem we need to solve, either by getting much better at it or by ditching it altogether.
93 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:47:43
He said himself that the fans will be okay with him if the team works hard and wins games.
I think he was correct.
94 Posted 25/08/2021 at 07:48:03
95 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:10:22
I wasn't able to watch the game, only getting snippets throughout the evening. Seemed that Iowbi (on commentary and reports) was involved, got a good goal and comments seemed to confirm this. I also was hoping he was continuing on a good display in the previous two games, but I am concerned he is now injured.
I haven't seen highlights yet, but you have a different view having watched the game. By most accounts, the reports must have been trying to make a game of it.
96 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:10:25
97 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:13:29
98 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:18:52
If Real Madrid have £137M to spend on a player, I'd be very surprised. They will know if Mbappé wants to join them and will surely wait a year and get him for nothing.
If I'm wrong and it happens and PSG come sniffing round Richarlison, then it's going to cost them the best part of £100M to get him.
Now I definitely do not want Richarlison to leave but a huge fee would soften the blow and, if invested wisely, could really help the team. I appreciate that's a big 'if' based on our transfer record over the past 5 years… but we can but live in hope.
99 Posted 24/08/2021 at 08:22:01
Can look forward to the weekend now.
100 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:22:05
Iwobi looked good in a more central role.
What a strike and finish from Kean even though it was ruled out. Depending what happens this week, I'd be happy to have him in support of Calvert-Lewin.
Nkounkou looks like a fine understudy to Digne, and one for the future, which is what he was bought for.
Static defending for the Huddersfield goal. I'm not going to name names but one player should have dealt with that comfortably.
On zonal defending, I could have an entire separate debate on that, and I'd probably be of the opposite view from many. I know why teams want to do it. Theoretically, and if you get it right, it is the best way to defend because the defending team dictates where it wants to be and controls the situation. But it requires concentration of the highest order, organisation, and taking responsibility for your zone. That's the problem with it, not the system or concept. If you man-mark, the attacking team dictates and can pull the defence out of position to create a situation of their choosing. My view, I appreciate others won't agree.
A conundrum. Man-marking is what most are comfortable with. But get zonal marking right and the defence is in control.
Put into the context of rotating the team to field what was pretty much a second string and literally throwing players together, it's never going to look fluid or pretty. They will be like strangers dancing on a dance floor. We're through, full stop. ('Period' for our US cousins.) We're in the hat. Next please.
101 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:31:04
Naively or not, we have took Richarlison's word that he will stay after we let him jaunt wherever he wanted this summer. No way we have a Plan B or Plan C for it with a week left. Got to stay strong and hold firm, even if we get a big bid.
102 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:39:12
It looks like this move may possibly happen this week, especially if Mbappé pushes for it. Though we've no idea if Richarlison would be high up their list. Not the ideal time to sell him though his stock is reasonably high after Olympics and Copa America showing. £85M would get Richarliosn in a Covid market, you'd think, and that would be very useful for us in terms of FFP. With money like that, we could buy 60 Demarai Grays!
103 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:39:19
104 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:42:26
105 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:46:15
Opposition teams just need to work out who in the zone is the weakest in the air and then put their best attacking header of the ball in that zone and place the ball there.
Granted that is not always possible but when it happens the zonal defence is in trouble.
106 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:49:32
I woke up to a text off my oldest son, who never really misses a game. It was basically saying that he's really happy with the way Benitez is constantly coaching the team whilst the game is going on. He says it makes a big change from Ancellotti's time in charge.
107 Posted 25/08/2021 at 08:55:42
Ultimately, both rely on what Tony says; take responsibility for your man or your zone and aggressively attack the ball. Not jump from a standing position. I'm not naming names!
On Benitez; I've seen so many clips and pictures now and, even in his short time, I have noted how hands-on he seems in terms of the coaching. There was a picture this week of him stood lecturing Richarlison fact to face, with the Brazilian listening intently.
108 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:00:32
We got into the ground just before 7pm. It's only a small concourse for away fans at Huddersfield, with two refreshment bars. We got a pint and moved away, near to where there is the usual group of Everton fans who normally throw beer in the air whilst singing. I'm sure anyone on here who has been to any away game will have seen this. They are normally a small group of fans in their teens or early twenties.
Anyway, one particular chant, obviously a new one was "We're gonna have a party when Ancelotti dies".
Now, whatever we all think of Ancelotti, love him or hate him, particularly for what he did, this was an absolutely disgusting chant aimed at him. I doubt any of this group will be reading this, but if you are, I hope that you feel really proud of yourselves this morning for singing such an obscene and disgusting chant aimed at Ancelotti.
109 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:09:21
Rob. Unfortunately, we have our idiotic fans as well. It's embarrassing but I suppose every club has them. I'm always proud to be an Evertonian but I've met a few dicks down the years whose views I don't agree with and comments like that about Ancelotti are repulsive.
110 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:12:45
I know you don't wish to name the offending defender for Huddersfield's goal last evening but I think it was Brian Murray who made me laugh out loud, when he said this particular player was so dozy he would be the last to realise his kecks were on fire!
Second string thrown together, playing a third of the game with 10 men, and we are in the hat – that will do nicely.
111 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:13:04
I was there and heard exactly the same thing. This group of mainly lads in their teens are, as you say, regulars and I agree with your sentiments. We always steer well clear with my young grandson.
Overall, the atmosphere and support from the Blues last night was excellent – even during the ‘patchy' bits.
112 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:16:58
Danny@107, I think the best way to get through to anyone is by speaking face to face, one to one, because even if you dont agree with what they are saying, by talking personally this usually generates a mutual feeling of respect, and can also be the only time you can gain someones full attention.
So Id expect loads of one to ones between Benitez and his defenders over the next few weeks, because defending set-pieces is a must.
113 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:17:51
Reading that this morning is really disappointing, these morons probably think that's really funny. Whatever anyone's opinion of Carlo Ancelotti, unlike these morons he was a class act. Yes, he left the club and I am sure at some point in the future we may find out why he left so suddenly after only saying weeks before he wanted to be here when we moved into Bramley-Moore Dock.
114 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:21:02
115 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:37:38
116 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:40:51
Your leg looked pretty sore last night. I noticed you sat down during one spell of the game so I guess it was getting to you (or the football was).
117 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:41:43
No need to get nasty in my opinion, especially talking about the death of someone.
I've said it about England fans, but I've never understood the logic of throwing beer around.
Maybe it's my humble beginnings, but my aim is always to not spill a drop of my hard earned and increasingly expensive drink if I get caught with a drink in my hand when we score!!
Like any walk of life Tony, football is no different. You manage and coach a team, but you have to spend time managing and coaching individuals to get the best out of them so they better contribute to the team.
Ian, I still won't say it, but keks on fire. Very apt!
118 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:53:07
I honestly couldn't tell you how I celebrate a goal. It's not something I ever planned.
I know I ended up a few rows away a few times so it must have been good!
119 Posted 25/08/2021 at 09:53:58
Danny, I assume you mean "We've got a diamond called Ross Barkley" song? I guess that group have now grown a bit older and the next generation have moved in.
120 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:06:33
121 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:07:58
I reckon it's already a done deal as I noticed that at Leeds and Huddersfield the club used THREE team coaches!
122 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:09:58
I see Tom Davies only got 65 minutes. The guy from the Echo thought he was having a good game and unlucky to be subbed. Things not looking good for Tom at the moment.
I see some papers are suggesting that West Ham may go after our ex-player Vlasic as it looks like Lingard is staying at Man Utd. Only 6 days left before the window closes, time is running out... it will be interesting to see who is still here come 1 September. Nothing in the papers about James or Kean moving.
123 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:11:32
124 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:14:29
Cosmic Blue Waves - - George
125 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:23:02
Seriously though, I've called the surgery this morning, and had to send pictures to them. Just had a call back from the doctor who will put me on a course of antibiotics. Usually clears up after a few days, which I hope is the case this time round as I'm off to Tenerife next week.
126 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:24:01
It's after games like this that most level-headed observers realise that talk of Everton making 'top six' is laughable, given the group is still a dozen players away from being a sound top notch squad.
Meanwhile, we have got to get used to being 'mid-table' and 'potless' until BMD is completed and The Russian can re-commence his zany transfer funding. Or not.
127 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:38:22
Kean (pre-sending off)
128 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:46:34
I didn't manage to see the game either, but Everton's official site is once again showing the full game and you can access it, if you're a season ticket holder or a member. A useful addition to the site for those who haven't seen a particular game.
129 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:52:34
Nkounkou - looked good going forward;
Branthwaite - looked solid enough;
Davies - played well up to being taken off;
Gbamin - looked rusty but remember his long lay off has to be taken into consideration.
Kean - started off looking lively but slowly looked to be disinterested. If his goal had counted, I wonder if that might have given him the lift he needed.
130 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:54:22
Kenny was ok-ish.
Nkounkou was ok-ish. Good going forward but defensively iffy, especially early on. Credit to him as his position was switched several times: wing-back when we started with a back three of Holgate, Keane and Branthwaite, then to LB when we switched to a back 4; then left of midfield when Digne came on.
Branthwaite was ok-ish. Again, early on made a number of defensive errors.
Davies was ok-ish.
Gbamin was ok-ish. I really want this guy to be a big part player in midfield so I was "seeing" good bits in his play - getting into good positions and anticipating, winning some balls, shielding the ball in possession, getting safe passes away. Subjective, see.
Kean was ok-ish. As with Gbamin, I've really wanted this guy to be a big part player. Great disallowed goal but his first touch still disappoints.
131 Posted 25/08/2021 at 10:59:22
Kenny - Was average enough. Got forward well on occasion, but didn't do all that much.
Nkounkou - Started really brightly. Had the beating of his man every time, and his delivery is good. Didn't seem to have enough confidence to keep doing it though, and faded out of the game.
Branthwaite - Looked decent, but quite nervy I thought. I can definitely see a good player in him, but still raw.
Davies - Started well, and a good assist for Iwobi's goal, but for all his effort, he doesn't help us control the midfield. Maybe that's a case of the team having changed so much though.
Gbamin - Looked very rusty. He had some moments where he looked great on the ball, but he gave it away a lot! Looks way off the pace, but I'm sure that's just a symptom of having had next to no games in 3 years. I'm still confident he'll be a very good player for us.
Kean - I thought he played very well. Was always in and around the box. Had one effort flash wide of the post, another saved brilliantly, and a superb strike contentiously ruled out for offside. Never a red card as far as I could see. Possibly a yellow, but he didn't do much other than square up to the guy.
Townsend - I thought he was quite poor. His delivery was atrocious. He took a few inswinging corners and free-kicks, all of them way off the mark. He made a good run for his goal, and a neat finish, but other than that he was well below par.
132 Posted 25/08/2021 at 11:23:20
133 Posted 25/08/2021 at 12:17:52
As for the rest too many of them demonstrated a rustiness through lack of recent competitive action. It was pleasing to see Gbamin complete a full game but he will need time and games to reach the level required in the Premier League. Nkounkou is not ready for the first team but might in time develop into a decent wing back. Kenny looks destined for another loan move or a sale if we somehow manage to recruit a right back in the next six days. Aside from his red card Moise Kean demonstrated he is not a centre forward. I will be surprised if he is still with us this time next week but who will take him?
The game exposed how thin the squad is below the first choice players. When injuries and suspensions kick in we will struggle no matter how skilled the manager is in juggling his resources. The majority of Premier League teams and some of the top Championship teams would have easily beaten last nights starting eleven. As it was a poor Huddersfield side gave us more than enough problems to reinforce our concerns about the depth of the squad.
134 Posted 25/08/2021 at 12:26:23
The first one is that you have to use blockers to stop the opposition's main threat getting a run and jump. Your blockers are not your best headers of the ball, as they are marking the key zones. However, this was exposed at Man Utd when we had Lucas Digne blocking Harry Maguire. The ball didn't go to a key zone, it went to Maguire's head, and Lucas Digne was no match for him. So if the ball doesn't go where your big men are, you can be in trouble.
The other problem is if the blockers don't manage to stop the opposition strikers from getting a run and jump. It doesn't matter how proactive the defenders are in their zones. If they have a 2/3 yard run up before they jump, and the striker has a 7/8 yard run up, the striker has an advantage.
Some managers try a blend of both zonal and man to man. They basically do zonal marking but mark the opposition's key men. I've never been convinced by it myself. With man-to-man marking, we know who is supposed to be marking who. And the defenders get the same run and jump as the strikers, they just need to get to the ball first.
I hope we are not going to be a soft touch from set pieces again this year…
135 Posted 25/08/2021 at 12:49:38
Taking in to account everything so far we have to admit that the attack has somewhat more to offer with Townsend and Gray. The Kean scenario is dubious but he was very unlucky not to have a goal after only three minutes when somehow the keeper got a hand to his goal bound effort.
The defence will be better as long as the Holgate - Keane partnership doesn't get used too often.
136 Posted 25/08/2021 at 12:53:22
Whatever way you skin it, if players don't do their job, be it track the man or defend their zone the outcome will be the same.
Regardless of man marking or zonal, Michael Keane (I've cracked and named him), watched and jumped from a static position. Either way, be on your toes, anticipate and attack the ball. Defensively or offensive; zonal or man for man.
137 Posted 25/08/2021 at 13:03:43
That's my point. From what I saw last night, I was disappointed with what I saw even if he is only a backup.
138 Posted 25/08/2021 at 13:32:46
I posted an article on here a few years back talking about Zonal Marking. I have been at many coaching sessions where efforts to introduce it ended up in total confusion. One session being taken by the late Justin Edinburgh ended up with everyone involved rolling around the floor... and this guy knew his stuff.
The idea of attacking the ball isn't quite in keeping with the concept. Defenders seeing the flight of a ball only have to take 2-3 steps towards it and they are charging into a team-mates zone, often clattering into him.
To make zonal marking work, you need intelligent defenders and they have to be physically built to do it. Remember when yard dogs like Benteke would target Bainsey or Seamus knowing, if the delivery is right, they would murder them in the air? A good delivery to a tall man against a short man virtually guarantees a knock-back from the far post or a flick-on from the near. Worse still, a direct header on goal.
Your defenders have to be able to improvise. (Keane?) They need to be disciplined. (Mina?) And their concentration needs to be spot-on. (Holgate?)
If they are not physically up to the aerial battle (Seamus, Davies, Allan, Gomes, Digne), you are asking for trouble. Don't do it, Rafa. Like Silva before you. You don't have the players to do it.
I think I may have told this one on here before: George Graham turned up at one of these sessions. He spoke for about 20 minutes and everyone hung on to his every word. When asked Did he ask his fabled back four to mark zonally? He told us that he told them to Fuck Off when they asked him how he wanted them to defend set-pieces.
"You're the defenders! It's not rocket science defending set-pieces. You can send the ball anywhere. The attacker has to get it between the posts. all you need to do is show more desire than him.
"You make up your minds which way you want to defend, but don't ever dare come back into my dressing room and tell me the opponent showed more desire than you."
139 Posted 25/08/2021 at 13:52:22
I am just beginning to develop the slightest of interest as I have to be honest, the Benitez appointment has been a real turn off for me.
I like to consider myself open-minded and fair but this has been really difficult. However, I think I am beginning a process of looking beyond the obvious.
Last night was a progression into the next round and that's it. Gbamin I feel can only be judged when he's had a 6-month period injury-free and a run of games. There are so many intricacies involved in the recovery from these injuries and he must have serious trust issues with his body now. That alone will take significant experience to overcome.
The attitude he has shown to get back to first team contention yet again must be commended. The guy obviously has a strong mentality, and this is a trait often vacant in recent Everton teams.
As for some of the others, clearly we are awaiting a suitor for Moise Kean. A shame that this didn't work out, but it hasn't and at least we will recoup the fee we paid. Time for all concerned to move on.
If we could reinvest that money somehow then we should prioritise a right-back and a forward player.
This will provide opportunity for Anthony Gordon and Jonjoe Kenny to move on from the club. Which they both should do if they have any ambition about them.
140 Posted 25/08/2021 at 14:29:24
Truth is nothing will be done – but there is less excuse if they are doing it at home games though.
I once called out one of ‘our own' for racially abusing Sterling during a derby at Anfield and reported it to a Steward. Nothing was done other than shrugged shoulders. The abuse I then got from the racist dick's mates meant me and my daughter had to leave and she's never been to a derby since.
The authorities talk a lot and run publicity campaigns but not much actually changes, apart from the odd individual arrest and banning order.
141 Posted 25/08/2021 at 14:33:06
Hi Rob ,
I share your disgust at the vile singing at last night's game. It's a long time since I regularly attended away games, but I can't recall anything that resembles what goes on now. I may be considered old-fashioned but I call managers by their names, for example David Moyes, Sam Allardyce, and Rafa Benitez. I also can't remember booing an opposing team or player, and I certainly haven't booed Everton or any of their players. It's true that I have expressed frustration and disappointment at times, too many in recent seasons.
HI George , keep up the good work, and I look forward to meeting up with you again, in the Bramley Moore on September 25th.
142 Posted 25/08/2021 at 14:53:13
John 141, l try to live by the same standards. Although l did say fat spanish waiter... but l will take that back and back our new manager. Plus he seems to be trying to get the best out of all individual players and l like the effort
Newcastle fans, who don't seem to like us very much, have been sharing that video around social media since the first home game. Not a good look is it.
143 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:02:35
It doesn't work.
It is a freaking disaster waiting to happen.
It drove me crazy when Roberto did it. It drove me crazy when Silva did it. And it drove me crazy yesterday.
Mark your man. Put a good physical thump on him and then go to the ball.
As you lot would say, simples.
144 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:10:50
Another chant I heard at half-time in the concourse area was directed at the local police; something along the lines of ‘Watch the cops, murderers. No prejudicial labelling there then! This chant was led by a middle aged man not a teenager proving that maturity does not necessarily come with age.
See you at Brighton!
145 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:16:16
When you've played 11 minutes in two years, you aren't just rusty, you're fossilized. But he had some great confident touches, moved really well and wasn't in any hurry to get rid of the ball when he had it. Yes, he made some bad passes, but Townsend made more and worse. I'm really excited about Gbamin. He's really Gbonna Gbe Gbood.
And as dazzled as we all were by Nkounkou's explosive skills on the ball, we also saw why he doesn't play much. He's absolutely clueless about defensive positioning, the worst I've seen since Seamus' early days. He uses his speed well to recover, but he's constantly recovering, and at this point he's a long way from a Prem-quality defender. That said, with some good teaching he could be a star in a year, as Seamus was after a year in the Moyes Defensive Academy curriculum.
146 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:24:56
Gbamin jumped into the crowd as the away end was still filling up during the warm-up and received a huge ovation from those already in the stand. Some fans have reported that, in fact, the midfielder hit someone with a ball during the warm-up - before making his way into the stand to give his shirt to the supporter affected. Regardless he returned to the pitch with a big smile on his face, and hopefully that much was the same when he left the ground after a solid 90 minutes.
Some fans have reported that, in fact, the midfielder hit someone with a ball during the warm-up - before making his way into the stand to give his shirt to the supporter affected.
Regardless he returned to the pitch with a big smile on his face, and hopefully that much was the same when he left the ground after a solid 90 minutes.
147 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:43:13
I am finding Keanes performance frustrating given he is a good header of the ball and best defender at it in our squad. You never know whats going on behind the scenes but he needs to get mentally tougher - seems like his mistake against Southampton has made him a bag of nerves since.
148 Posted 25/08/2021 at 15:49:58
His pace is unbelievable when he turns it on.
149 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:19:52
Ian, l don't think it helped him playing as a wing back either as he was a bit isolated. I didn't like how static and deep the back 3 were either.
150 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:22:07
151 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:23:06
I agree with your view on zonal marking at corner kicks; if, as some claim, it's done properly, then there would be no goals scored. Marking space seems a high risk to me, and man-to-man marking gets my vote every time.
Another thing I find frustrating is the withdrawal of all ten outfield players to defend corners. I feel that leaving the fastest player upfield would require two men to mark him. As it is, by dragging everybody back, a clearance is generally snapped up by the opposition, inviting another attack to be launched. But, then again, I'm just an old man with an old-fashioned outlook on football.
152 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:26:12
But I'll give on you shouldn't do it if you don't have the players to employ it. We don't. And if you do deploy it, it's not as simplistic as lining up the defensive 4 and then the midfield 4 in front of them by virtue of who is on the pitch in certain positions. Like I said, probably an entire different discussion. For it to work, it needs practice, concentration and good organisation. Above all, taking responsibility. But then so does man marking.
Regardless, however you defend, players have to be lively, alert, on their toes, judge the flight of the ball and yes, come to meet it, not be jumping from a stand still position or caught with it going over their head. Judgement & decisive decision making however you decide to set up defensively or from an attacking perspective.
On the chanting, I could go holier than though, but I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Whilst I deplore that type of thing, lets not forget back in the day some of the vile chanting from the Gwladys Street about Munich and "Everton are . "
I'll stop there. No place for it, but sadly not new. No place for it. Let's not deny it, but let's be glad it is mostly gone.
153 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:42:14
The game is so fast and physical that any mere mortal who stepped onto a field with these giant mesomorphs, who are rapid, carrying huge amounts of muscle mass and hardly any body fat, would simply be obliterated in an instant.
These players, mostly, are throwing everything at every ball. And at astonishing pace. It is very fine margins and what May look to your average person as acres of space would in the midst of the action be absolute microseconds of reaction time.
The higher the level the more intelligent and incisive these attacking players are. It makes me cringe how an idiot in the terrace, with a red face, shouting angrily at a football pitch thinks that they would have the guts and ability to do what the majority of these players get right most of the time.
Can they do their jobs better? Of course and thats what they must strive for.
154 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:51:51
The problem is, it requires lots of practice, excellent communication and quick decisions, so it works only with a backline that has practiced and played together extensively. We rotate center backs almost every game and have munchkins at fullback, so it's a doomed system for us. I'm hoping Rafa has recognized that by now. Roberto and Silva never did.
David #149, that was Holgate's error in my view, not Keane's. Assuming Keane called for the ball, it's Holgate's job to get out of the way. He just backed right into Keane's path.
155 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:57:08
Many Europeans and South Americans grow up with it. Brits tend to struggle because it is against everything that has been taught to them. They are taught to pick a man and mark him.
I've noticed a marked change in recent years, maybe because we have so many foreign coaches here, They want their players to adapt to this system because they know no other way.
You need the personnel to do it effectively. You can give your players the very best instructions, but you can't instruct them to grow a few inches.
I suspect Kean was caught between 2-3 stools last night. He was trying to cover the far post and the center of the goal. Compensate?
It's simply false to say he took off from a standing position; he took at least four strides to get to that ball. The problem was that the Huddersfield centre-back had the luxury of stealing the march on him. He only had one job to do.
156 Posted 25/08/2021 at 16:58:05
157 Posted 25/08/2021 at 17:24:38
Zonal marking aint rocket science, many teams us it and use it well. The players have to be switched on. They are pro athletes, extremely fit and practice every day. Although by Townsends corners yesterday you wouldn't think it.
158 Posted 25/08/2021 at 17:37:57
He was never getting there in a million years and he knew it.
The lengths people will go to, to blame Holgate for goals conceded always makes me smile. I chuckled when people tried to blame him for the Southampton goal, but this one made me laugh out loud.
Mason; played two, Won two.
159 Posted 25/08/2021 at 17:50:39
With Keane alone and unchallenged for the header, Holgate had one job and one job only... stay the hell out of the way. I'd been souring on Holgate for a long time, and that finished him off for me.
Not excusing Keane's errors -- but that was most definitely not one of them.
Darren #158, still haven't learned to read, eh? David and I are discussing the Spurs game in April, not yesterday's goal or Southampton. Get a clue.
160 Posted 25/08/2021 at 17:52:57
161 Posted 25/08/2021 at 17:55:55
We forget how fast and physical the game is these days. You can see the difference from foreign leagues and from recordings of games in the past.
A lot of players are built like light heavyweight boxers and can run like sprinters. This is where, over the years, Everton have been a bit lacking, but hopefully the new regime will improve this aspect.
162 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:12:29
Keane was not getting there and ended up stooping and heading it straight into Holgates back. Thats why I dont think he called he for it. He thought he Mason would win it
You - true to form - want to blame Holgate months later for something he had no chance of avoiding. Oh sorry I was forgetting. You heard the call from over there
You are a funny man Mike. infinitely predictable but funny.
163 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:14:57
164 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:18:53
I have watched him, dozens of times, not react to a long pass until the ball is almost on top of him.
165 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:25:12
It does look like the players are having a good go right now. That's always something to build on, but we do need to do a bit of business before the window shuts, or pray we get no injuries.
166 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:27:27
Thanks for clarifying that what we all thought we saw was deceiving:
Obviously, Keane should have instantly re-routed his header around the truck that was backing into him. As always, I appreciate your expertise.
167 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:36:49
Holgate was doing what any defender in the world worth his salt would do. Straining every sinew to get there.
But if you heard the call It must have been his mistake :)
168 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:40:17
Michael Keane is a good footballer and capable of far beter but in 3 games this season he has looked like a little boy lost and whereas he used to be in with a chance of scoring for us from corners, he has not shown at all this season.
So, for me, Keane has to be taken out of the spotlight for a few games. Holgate played much better last night amid the dross around him and he also showed up well when paired with Mina a couple of years ago although I prefer Godfrey/ Holgate ongoing.
169 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:41:29
Early days but a decent start, as you say, we need players if we are to maintain the momentum and have a decent season.
170 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:48:32
Calvert-Lewin will become a much better finisher when he sorts his feet out!
171 Posted 25/08/2021 at 18:49:15
As for Kean... soft lad, he could've cost us dear.
Onwards to the south coast, Blue Boys... let's do 'em.
172 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:01:35
Obviously need more quality in the side but a good start.
173 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:02:55
Interesting though, but outside of set pieces, in my experience of playing German football, in open play, they are total annoying shits for man marking and literally following you around the pitch!
Brian @163 & Tony @165; it's us fans that make us Everton. Brighton on Saturday, I have my ticket for Burnley and then we have Norwich on 25th September.
None of this is yet declared to Mrs Danny, but I can feel the suspicion bearing down on me. I haven't mentioned Burnley as that is the day after we get back from a weekend trip to Berlin and I don't yet want to ruin my Birthday weekend. Norwich isn't even on the agenda, although I think she suspects something. I'm rubbish at hiding all things Everton!
She has pledged to match me spend for spend each time I go to watch Everton now that I'm more able to. By the end of September, that could be edging towards £3K in total cost already. It could be an expensive season. Especially considering I have to factor in Wembley!!
Back to the football. Agree, we are in a near similar position to last year. Good team if all fit, but lightweight squad if hit by inevitable injuries. We need reinforcements and still better players.
174 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:07:47
I don't feel its his feet I think he just loses focus and then his head goes walkabout.
175 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:15:43
Nkounkou going forward is good but primarily he really needs to switch on when defending.
God only knows what Keane and Holgate are up to?
Gbamin, well, until he gets games under his belt, it's difficult to say but last night he was well short.
In any cup competition, the outcome is to get through whatever way you can and last night we proved it just!
I think it just proves, as per the last few years, unless we have our best 11 on the pitch, against anyone, we will struggle.
176 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:20:24
It will always be more effective if you put a man on him who can try to impede his run and block him every inch of the way, rather than having defenders marking space.
I cant help thinking that this zonal marking was brought in from Europe, where teams traditionally didnt attack the ball aerially like we do in England.
177 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:22:23
I think Keane is very heavy on his feet, and can't change his movements because of this. Some people who were at the game said Michael was unlucky with the way the ball ricocheted at Leeds; I personally think he plants his feet into the ground way too heavily, and then becomes rooted to the spot because of this.
178 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:37:47
179 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:42:34
It's about execution regardless of which system you use, and of course there isn't only one form of zonal marking. It's a broad term for a number of different defensive set-ups that can be employed.
But there is a bit of a jumpers for goalposts flavour to this particular debate.
180 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:45:19
And he only gets on the end of his run if he loses his marker.
The theory behind zonal is that the defending team calls the shots and dictates. If you get it right. Many try but don't.
Man marking is traditional and what we understand in this country, but the opposition can pull you out of shape.
Tony, I think we've laboured the discussion on Keane. It's not just what you say about his heavy feet, which contributes to his turning circle, it's his concentration, anticipation and reading of the game. At 28, he's currently our oldest and most experienced centre back. As an experienced centre back, he should be a leader. He's not looking like either.
181 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:48:49
Calling tonight a "must win" game for Arteta.
I get he's probably the favourite for the early chop, but come on. We're 2 games in and this is the League Cup!!
182 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:49:15
And a note on Arteta, you know it's bad when the grauniad won't put up an MBM for a London club cup match.
183 Posted 25/08/2021 at 19:57:51
Norwich have a horrendous opening few fixtures. I'm glad they are back though so l can listen to their manager talk.
184 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:06:57
I see what you did there (presumably intended!).
185 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:07:16
186 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:07:32
3 years? We don't give managers 3 months these days.
I've spent a lot of time in Germany, but Farke most definitely has the most stereotypical German accent I've ever heard David!!
187 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:14:11
The first goal, Keane takes it off Holgates head by getting something on the ball.
The second goal, Holgate does what any Centre Back is taught, if you cant get to the ball then you jump anyway to put the striker behind you off. He didnt touch the ball and Keane watched it all the way into his head. Keane should have been anticipating Holgate to miss the ball and be connecting behind him. Both (although the first was unlucky) were more down to Keane than Holgate.
Keane is a brilliant defender on the edge of his own box and He suits about 15-20 games well, but if we have ambition and want to move forward then Godfrey and Holgate should be the pairing against every team we expect to beat.
188 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:21:19
Not just up front for corners, but as an extra man in midfield, permanently. It was very entertaining.
189 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:32:13
Back to Keane and for that Spurs goal if he was aware of what was around him he would not have panicked and darted over to the ball the way he did. I don't know whats affecting him. Maybe pressure to make the England squad? I don't think it would have been such a bad idea to have made him captain.
190 Posted 25/08/2021 at 20:41:07
A lack of pace isn't a crime and can be compensated for. If you have footballing intelligence, anticipation and an ability to read the game.
Michael is a good honest player. Just not good enough for where I want Everton to be. Both in terms of on the pitch and the league table.
191 Posted 25/08/2021 at 21:11:05
192 Posted 25/08/2021 at 21:20:06
You bring up the first goal. What you describe as taking the ball "off Holgate's head" is exactly what Darren describes on the second goal as "doing what any defender in the world worth his salt would do. Straining every sinew to get there." In other words, Keane leaps and gets his head on the ball, and it's a bad play. Holgate leaps and misses it completely, but it's a good play. Ohhhhh-kaaay.
Now specifically on the second goal, let's forget about the fact that Holgate never gets close to reaching the ball -- he's half a head shy -- or clearly had no idea his teammate is behind him because he hasn't bothered to look. Just do me a favor and freeze the video at the exact moment Keane heads the ball down towards Siggy. The flying-backwards Holgate is now maybe two feet in front of him. A fraction of a second later he literally bangs into Keane like a little old lady backing a Buick into a parking space without looking in the mirror. Where the heck was Keane supposed to put the ball? Even if he had time to adjust, which he didn't, he'd have two choices -- to the left over the end line for a corner, or to the right into the center of the box.
Sorry, but there is no way to portray Holgate's backing into his teammate and blocking his easy pass as anything but sheer brain-deadness. Not for the first time, and sure as hell not for the last.
193 Posted 25/08/2021 at 21:30:54
Both, ultimately, came down to a lack of communication. However I would put Keane more at fault for both, with the first being more Keanes fault due to a massive slice of bad luck.
194 Posted 25/08/2021 at 21:44:24
What the fuck does it mean? Honest to God what? It reminds me of monterism. I used to nod sagely when it was mentioned, without having the first fucking clue what it meant.
Why not man mark? It worked for Alf Ramsay. At least you know what lazy fucker was scratching his arse while Wally Brand stuck another one in the net.
195 Posted 25/08/2021 at 21:46:37
196 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:08:19
197 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:12:24
By the way, Ive never seen horse flys playing golf. 😂😂😂
198 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:26:58
199 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:30:46
200 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:39:08
201 Posted 25/08/2021 at 22:43:18
202 Posted 26/08/2021 at 03:59:08
The player who was born with eyes in the back of his head hasnt been born yet. That ball had a lot of topspin on it. Holgate did his utmost to get to it. Keane was further back and could see the bigger picture. He could see the ball was coming down fast he could see Holgate wasnt getting there. He could see how close He and Holgate where going to end up to each other if he charged into him. It was (in any football language) His responsibility to deal with the situation.
The guy who sees the bigger picture takes control.
I suspect it is your desire to blame Holgate that made you to hear Keane's call - months after the event...From over the USA.
There is a very strange desire to find a culprit for every goal we concede. but having watch over a thousands of games, played, manged/coached too many games to put a figure on. I have learned one thing above all else. Shit happens on a football pitch.
Holgate did nothing wrong for that Goal, no matter how hard you try to make it so. Thats what people are trying to explain to you. Keane was caught in two minds but didnt commit the crime of the century. A renowned predator was lurking. That may have panicked him for all we know. Unfortunately it fell perfectly for Kane and he did what he does.
Instead of hammering Keane for the Huddersfield goal. How about we say what really happened ?
How about we say this was one of those occasions where zonal marking had it flaws exposed.
How about we say; This was a great delivery and a an unstoppable header ?
How about we gracefully give credit to the opponent instead of making stuff up like Keane jumped from a standing position ?
Once we start doing that. We start to understand how this footy lark works.
203 Posted 26/08/2021 at 05:52:04
204 Posted 26/08/2021 at 06:09:43
It echoes a previous sentiment that we know what we're getting with Michael Keane. And at 28, I'd say he's done most, if not all, of his development.
QPR. Convenient for me if I manage to get a ticket. Not keen on the area around their ground. I was there several years ago (probably more) to watch an FA Cup fixture. I think we lost, but a young John Lundstram stood out for me that night.
205 Posted 26/08/2021 at 06:36:40
You are embarrassing yourself again.
You were as wrong as wrong can be about Ancelotti with your constant happy clapping and angry attacks on those who tried to educate you. Get over it.
Oh and you may want to let the memory of you claiming that you have had a 30 year love affair with Sheffield Wednesday because a West Ham player once caught the ball as Goodison, before you try to come on with smart arsed one liners
Actually. You have just helped me realise something...I'm begining to understand why a couple posters come on here and very carefully avoid actually talking about the game
206 Posted 26/08/2021 at 07:41:25
Just add to add a little fuel to fire. One concern for me on set pieces whether zonal or man to man is the role of Bergovic. He made good saves but never got sense he had any command of 6 yard area. From what I saw on Tuesday, I wasnt impressed. Maybe thats why Rafa got Lonergan as backup for backup.
207 Posted 26/08/2021 at 07:48:03
Im going to the Brighton game on Saturday and if I see them Ill listen to what they are singing, and without getting too involved and without getting wet from flying beer, show my displeasure.
However, at 70 my heart says sort them out, but my head says dont be silly grandad! Would have done years ago though.
Should be a good game, both teams unbeaten. I fancy us to nick it 😃
208 Posted 26/08/2021 at 17:09:17
I quite like your last paragraph. For years, I have held the belief that anything can happen in a game of football. In my opinion, little credit is given to opponents in the goal-scoring stakes, there are times when goals conceded are to be treated with a degree of admiration.
I have been mocked on this site for expressing the view that footballers are not machines that can be programmed, and I cannot understand how anyone who has been watching football for a minimum of a single season, can't see that. There may be some who are sick and tired of me saying that, but I'm equally sick and tired of players being made scapegoats, they don't make mistake on purpose, and don't deserve the treatment they receive. A comment of "He's not good enough" would suffice.
If you're available for the get-together at the Bramley Moore on September 25th I would really like to meet you; you never know, I might even like you.
209 Posted 26/08/2021 at 17:49:47
As was mentioned after your 119 post, it could well turn into cellulitis. Not nice and if not treated can lead to a serious operation. See images on the interweb. When I had it I had to go to A&E and had to have intravenous meds. Please keep an eye on it and see a doc.
210 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:06:32
211 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:17:51
And on your invitee, I've stayed a bit quiet on the Carlo thing lately while some have had their little revisionist rants but I'm quite willing to revisit those good times if it continues to get stirred up. We may accidentally be in a better place so it would be good to get clean and get with Rafa rather than reignite the wrath of the discontented.
212 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:37:43
Looking forward to the 25th. I'll be 9 days past my 50th then, have watched Everton win and be looking towards the site of our new home.
And I reckon most on here in the flesh would get on and like each other despite the passionate debates. They only happen because we are passionate about the same common love in our life!
Do they serve a good wine in the Bramley-Moore? I went off beer years ago!!
213 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:38:56
You and a number of other supporters seem to attend a number of away games, I wonder if you know my nephew J Blaine? He attends most away games, even in Europe.
214 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:45:49
Everton had a striker, J Blaine on their books in the distant past, is this the same fella?
215 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:49:25
216 Posted 26/08/2021 at 18:51:30
Yes, that sting in the tail!
217 Posted 26/08/2021 at 19:38:00
Oh yeah, Go Pacos and come on Red Imps of Gibraltar!
218 Posted 26/08/2021 at 19:44:31
Your first paragraph, if I'm reading it right, reinforces my view on the type of criticism that some players are subjected to. The 'abuse baton' that Gylfi Sigurdsson and Alex Iwobi held has been handed over to Michael Keane and Mason Holgate. I'm not suggesting that all criticism is abusive but I find some of it neither constructive nor justifiable.
Hi Brent ,
Another example of how the written word can be misinterpreted, my last few words were tongue-in-cheek, and I feel sure that Darren will understand that, apologies to him if he doesn't.
219 Posted 26/08/2021 at 20:29:14
I would also like us to do well in the FA Cup. I understand that for most fans the Cups are of no importance at all but it is always nice when you win a trophy.
220 Posted 26/08/2021 at 20:40:35
I have a family engagement on the 25th, but I only live 10 walk from the Bramley Moore, so I'm hoping to pop in for an hour or so to put a few names to a few faces.
221 Posted 26/08/2021 at 20:45:21
No that is not the same John Blaine. My nephew is a member of the Everton Shareholders Association, and I can't remember him playing football.
222 Posted 26/08/2021 at 20:55:22
I rarely bet on Everton and I think the Brighton game is such a tough call. However, I believe that a victory will buy Rafa huge breathing space.
Also, I think he put a result here ahead of win at Huddersfield. Brighton are committed to front foot tactics; we... err, really aren't. I think we will win well. Minus a goal, Everton to win.
223 Posted 26/08/2021 at 22:30:37
224 Posted 26/08/2021 at 22:56:12
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