ToffeeWeb Chatroom – Matchweek 15

What about the England team in the T20 World Cup semi final this morning against India. A great victory, inspired by an opening (and finishing) partnership by Jos Buttler and Alex Hales, who knocked off the required 169 runs with minimum fuss. Final on Sunday morning against Pakistan.

Bernie, Slante.

Always an emotional weekend. I'll be in central London on Sunday remembering people and friends who never came home and some who did, but with life-changing injuries, both mental and physical.

After we've been to Bournemouth for the second time in 4 days (technically 3 by the time most of got home). They own us big time.

Thanks Danny - Lest We Forget.

Rob,#1 Looking forward to that game, England have got better as the tournament has progressed which bodes well for Sunday.

Thanks Danny. I was supposed to be marching in London as a Falklands veterans this weekend, but elected to delay my return from 15 years in Australia to watch us play Celtic in Sydney. I fly back the day after. In hindsight that was a stupid decision!

Definitely Jeff. We should really have beaten Ireland, only for the weather to intervene, eventually losing by five runs by the DLS system. We probably would have beaten the Aussies as well only for a washout. Overall though, we’ve been great with bat and ball and even in the fielding, where’s there’s been some great catches and a few run outs. We should have no fear about facing Pakistan.

Repsect Paul. Poignant for you as it's 40 years. My era was Northern Ireland, Bosnia, the Middle East and Afghanistan.

My son is out in Brisbane but on his way back tomorrow. He thought about staying out for the Celtic and Western Sydney Warriors fixtures but has opted to fly home as originally scheduled.

Hoping there's decent online availability from the club to watch it.

I've got the Norwich away déjà vu!

Hope I'm wrong.

UTFT

Mark, correct.

Didn't Keane or Coleman (or both) mess up in that game? I hope neither is on the pitch tomorrow.

Joe McMahon,

Do you ever have anything positive to say about the players or manager?

Total negativity.

Christy. Very often yes and I also know you are a big Seamus fan, so apologies for questioning your golden boy.

Seeing as you are so observant about my posts you will have noted I'm rarely critical of Frank, or Rafa, Marco and I actually liked Big Sam. Koeman or Moyes (never a fan). I've never said anything (even when his form was poor) about Iwobi and praised Mykolenko many times. I'm allowed to say my opinions on players not putting in a shift with no commitment, like Gordon and I've never been a huge fan of Calvert-Lewin (as a player), although good with his head.

The players earn thousands a week (some more than your GP in a year), and yes I'm sick to death of decades of the Kenwright " Non-achieving Peoples Club" we have become. I'd like to, but I just can't walk away, none of us can.

Just seen some interesting stats regarding the Premier League over the last 10 years, and the influence that Guardiola has had since his first season in 2016-17.

They show passes from goal kicks were shorter.
Crosses less frequent.
Pass directness is lower.
Less shots % from outside the box.
More turnovers higher up the pitch.

I cant think of another coach who has ever had such an impact like this on practically every team in the Premier League. Now everybody wants their team to play out from the back.

The trouble is that Pep buys highly technical players who are very comfortable on the ball, but many who copy don't have the same technical players and therefore it leads to more chances for the opposition deep in their half.

Many coaches, like Frank, are so influenced by Pep that they slavishly copy his style, but it doesn't work for some teams and I would suggest we are one team it doesn't work for. We try to pass out from the back and, after 6 or 7 passes between the back 4, try and hit a 40-yard diagonal pass, so negates what we are trying to do which is retain possession.

I would suggest that unfortunately this team is happier when passing back or square than they are trying to play a forward pass. Our passing stats in the opponent's half must be the worst in the Premier League, and I would suggest that needs working on more than trying to build from the back.

Brian, excellent post.

Brian, the best counter to Guardiola is Klopp's gegenpress. 4-3-3 transition to 2-5-3 then 2-3-5, and pin the fullbacks in. It would work much better at Everton if only we had players prepared to run that much.

You're dead right, Brian, you need players of the same ability as Man City et al to play out from the back successfully.

It's results we need, I don't care what style we play.

Mike, I echo your post.

Danny.

I’m sure if you're back on the South Coast or wherever on the globe, you will raise a glass to the fallen, lest we forget. Horrific war as in casualties. Seen the colour version real footage (they won’t grow old) .

So deluded, young lads just wanted 3 meals a day, as they quote. Didn’t know what was coming. On a slightly lighter note, the girls of Paris made sure they never came back as virgins.

I wish to pay my respects today for the ones have that served in the armed forces, especially those who never came home., I was born in 1940 so as a child my remembrance of the time we are remembering today as the end of the Second World War, was a street party in 1945. I heard some stories from veterans but most of them were reluctant to talk about their experiences.

Paul @5

My lad Alex is in Sydney for a couple of weeks for family reasons. He's rightly been born a Blue, lives in Fairfield and the jammy sod has a ticket for the Celtic game.

He's also got one for the Sydney derby tomorrow to cheer on or take the piss out of Jack Rodwell (if he plays). He too flies back the day after the Celtic game so I've told him to ditch his mam (who's also got a ticket for the Celtic game) and seek out fellow Blues to go on the lash with – in a responsible way of course.

I've also asked him to promote my local Irish Club, the Brian Boru (oldest one in Britain) which managed to survive the pandemic and to mingle with Blues and Celts for photos and videos. What are the best Blue or Irish pubs in Sydney that he can go to in the lead-up to next week's game?

I can’t believe you are not watching the rugby league on BBC2, Dave, in fact anyone who likes sport should be watching because it’s some game. Both sets of players have just received a standing ovation leaving the pitch at halftime, because the speed, strength and overall standards, are surely the reason why World Cups, we’re invented in the first place?

Derek@ 9, the Aurora bar near central station is the main meeting point for blues. Free trains from there to the match. The day before is an Everton themed Sydney harbour cruise (I have a spare ticket - free, if he's interested) 0423859956

Cheers

Tony,

I’m only watching the football because Simms is playing, being honest he is on his own up front so it’s a tiresome job, he only had the one chance but he took it well, from around the same position Iwobi had his chance versus Leicester and he took it like a veteran!! That doesn’t mean I’m a big fan of his but let’s wait and see how he progresses.

Danny@7. I lost my ship (HMS Sheffield) in that conflict. 40 years now but seems like yesterday. I finally left the service last year and retired yesterday. Hoping to spend a bit more getting to the games from a bit closer to L4 (I guess Cornwall is a bit closer)!

Emergency Centre-Forwards?

Oh for The Angel Gabriel - to my mind the best of them all. Well I remember him putting Charlton & Hunter to the sword - they did not like it up em one little bit

Paul (11),

Me and my wife met Simon Weston, who was very badly burnt in the Falklands war, in London Road and with a few more people in the bar, had a good chat to him.

I think everyone who met him that night was overwhelmed by the way he composed himself and how he had come to cope with all the operations and the many other difficulties he had had to face after that war. He struck me, and I think everyone who was in his company that night, as a remarkable and humble man.

I think you and anyone who has served in war zones could name many more casualties like Simon Weston.

Alright for those who have fallen a little bit (or a lottle bit) out of love with football I present something worthy of football love:

Link

Just set it on replay for a while and whatever was bothering you vanishes.

I watched the rugby Tony, I honestly think England can compete against Australia, still a tough game against Samoa tomorrow, be a lot closer than the last time they played, a few weeks back but think England will beat them again.

Been playing really well England, assuming they win tomorrow and do not freeze with the Aussie fear factor, I honestly think England have a great chance.

Also Tony how refreshing is it to see the ref and the rugby equivalent of the VAR communicate, how they show the slow motion replays on the big screen, to check various offsides, grounding of the ball etc.

Would not be in the interest of var to follow suit, works fine for them, justifying putting a still frame and lines on the big screen, to help the elite out.

If they did follow the rugby way, so much corruption would be wiped away, but like I say, they need to protect the big clubs.

Joe,

My apologies, I was very harsh with my comment. I know you're a die-hard fan. I agree completely with your comment.

Personally I liked Moyes and would love to have seen what he'd have done if he had money, but the sneaky way he left finished me with him.

I still say Koeman was the biggest downfall selling Lukaku and buying 3 No 10s was the beginning of the shit.

The older I get, the more I prefer sports like rugby (either code) and cricket (any format). Compared to the corruption, fakery and mundanity long since so prevalent in so-called professional football players involved in those sports at every level exude integrity to and from the umpire/referees, whole-hearted commitment to the sport they love, and bucketsful of nerve-jangling entertainment.

Just watched the Aussie-NZ Rugby League World Cup semi-final. A fabulous pulsating match where both teams took a physical battering but neither gave an inch in their desire to win.

So different to professional football.

No worries Christy (even my wife tells me to cheer up), but we are all blues! That's exactly the reason I went off Moyes, that and the semi v Liverpool (we had it in the bag).

RE- tomorrow, I'm getting nervous already, Its mid November so how ridiculous is that! I suppose its because non of us want to be in the bottom 3 for the world cup break.

Don, I fully agree with every word.

Although I did want New Zealand to beat the Aussies tonight. Anyway hope all blues have a good weekend!

Don,

Perversely, the older I get. the more I love this club.

It's been with me longer than my wife, my children and most of my friends. They never get everything right either... perhaps there's a pattern?

Don - well said. I too am completely apathetic towards the creatures that inhabit football these days. We still have some decent guys: Tarkowski, Coady, Mykolenko, Coleman and Patterson spring to mind.

I recall us being knocked out of the Cup at Wimbledon in the late '80s and I had tickets through a mate in the players' lounge and Kendall brought them all in for a quick orange juice. I got Paul Power's autograph. They were shit scared of Howard and they must have had one hell of a bollocking as they all stood at one end of the bar barely daring to move.

Can you imagine scenes like that these days?

That's the frustration, Brian. In Rugby, they openly communicate, show visibility and hold themselves accountable. I keep saying, the VAR isn't the problem, it's the officials. Football has royally messed up the implementation.

Paul, I understand. Your experiences seem way more traumatic than mine. I lost friends and colleagues in Afghanistan, had people I was responsible for having life-changing injuries. Some of my closest friends are still mentally affected by their experiences. I attended countless repatriation ceremonies in Helmand Province as we sent the boys and girls back home draped in Union Flags. We'll remember all of that this weekend.

Apologies, it's Remembrance weekend.

Up and travelling tomorrow. Hopefully it won't be raining like it was on Tuesday night so I can come home dry and happy rather than wet, cold and miserable!!

Joe, you only had to go and mention that semi-final.

Still grates.

Me arguing with Kopites on the way to Wembley Park Station. I didn't even have a ticket, but as usual, watched in a pub near the Stadium.

Every single one of them.

But we bottled it that day, when it was there for the taking.

Leave Moyes at West Ham, he is preparing a bid for Michael Keane in January.

Eddie.

I recall the Wimbledon game. Kendall was absolutely livid in his post-match TV interview. His telling comment – trying to keep it civil – was “our season starts tomorrow”.

1987 it was…

Joe,

Tthat bloody semi-final! Watched in footy bar in Tokyo with my long-suffering Texan wife... loads of blues but more Japanese reds. I ended up nearly strangling a Japanese red with his daft scarf at the end. Everton that.

Paolo Rossi only scored 123 career goals.

Danny,

I tell you they are blessed by the devil, mate, the semi you are referring to all started with a shocking Distin back pass to let them back in it, followed by a winner with the player facing the wrong way, hitting his pony tail and ending up in the back of the net.

Then in 1986 when we had them rattled, only for Gary Stevens to play a sloppy pass, to let them back in the game.

It's not all down to them though, you can go back to the 1977 League Cup, Nichol scoring a once-in-a-lifetime thunderbolt, followed by an extra-time winner, when Darracott did a dummy, and completely missed the ball that ended up landing for Little to score the winner. I think in between Roger Kenyon did a shocking attempt of trying to keep one of the goals out.

Sore point, mention Bryan Hamilton, then you have the 1980 semi-final, when Lampard Snr scored, you could have picked any player to score, and Lampard would be bottom of the list.

The number of times Everton have shot themselves in the foot is unbelievable, or just awful luck, finishing off with Carlisle Utd, the biggest kick in the knackers of them all.

Everton that, Danny. I will take a piece of luck tomorrow, I don't even care if we get a winner off someone's backside, we are well overdue for a slice of luck.

10 May 1986, Brian.

I was a crying (yes crying) teenager that dark day. From thinking we had it after the disappointment of throwing away the title at the last hurdle to devastation within an hour was hard to take.

We blew the double and on both counts to them. That was difficult.

Anyway, let's take that piece of overdue luck to the Vitality today and go into the break feeling slightly better.

I'll be heading off about 9am to catch the train. Turn up Everton.

Brian,

I was at every game you said there courtesy of dad and his hackney cab decked in blue. Not being controversial but you may have a point about a spell on us and me personally. I won't miss Goodison: we need a new outlook and TO leave the relic behind. Well, two relics really, but i won't go into that as I'm eating.

Danny, don't worry, I'll be up at 3.30am to get ready for the match at 4am. You get the feeling reading the posts, a sound of knives being sharpened.. put them back in the draw guys, we need passion and belief not anger or resentment. Play with passion we will win.

Just finished watching the NZ women's rugby team win the World Cup over England, who were all power, but the Kiwis had belief, passion and the fans behind them. Brilliant, that's how it's done. They should show that in training at Finch Farm to explain to some of the numpties we have what passion is.

If you haven't got it, don't get out of bed.

Belief. Passion. Give it all.

Christine, not to mention that England were down to 14 women for 60 minutes.

Eddie,

I think the combined weight of the England women's team must have been three times that of New Zealand, what a power house they were, steam rollered the Kiwis.But they didn't give up.. and yes you're right as we were down to 14 for a while as well... but what a game!

I haven’t watched England play in this tournament yet Brian@27, and only fell on the rugby by chance because I’ve been in the house sick, but I can’t get enough of it now.

It doesn’t matter if it’s league or Union, I watched the Kiwis beat the English girls this morning in the Union final, and it was very enjoyable with no quarter given by either side.

The Aussie’s are kings, when it comes to rugby league though, so if you think England have got a chance then I’ll take your word for it mate, and hope we can beat Samoa today🤞

The way VAR is operated in football is embarrassing and watching the rugby only confirms this Brian. Saying football is corrupt upsets a lot of people, but surely not as many as the very inconsistent officials, who cause loads of controversy every week, and don’t after answer to anyone.

What a performance by Brentford, always in the game despite City having most of the possession but Brentford denying them only one clear cut chance the second half with their pace, movement, determination and most of all discipline, and Brentford missed a very good chance themselves and should have increased their lead in the closing minutes.

Tony, when looking at how the technology is used in rugby and further, there is nothing to conclude at this stage save that the specification of the VAR is maintained for the opportunity of interpretation and control.

i.e. it's corrupt.

So much for the bookies.

As of yesterday, they had Frank behind our Frank as a favorite in the sack race.

Courtesy of Brian Murray.

Nice touch on this weekend.

Link

Yes England win T20 🏏

An excellent victory for England in the T20 World Cup final. I also notice England had two rugby teams in one final and one a semi final, unfortunately losing both. Somehow I cant see our football team getting anywhere near the semi final or final of the World Cup in the next few weeks.

Rob, that last 2 tournaments England have had very easy routes to the final. Add Harry Kanes endless penalties, anything is possible.

Joe, I’m pretty certain we will get out of the group, possibly winning it, we might even get to the quarters but that will be about as far as we go. Of course, if any of our games go to a penalty shootout, then yes, anything is possible.

And just when we need a goal scorer … Moise Kean scores his 2nd of the night for Juventus. Everton that?

Has anybody seen the sky sports programme “Gary Neville’s Countdown to Qatar”?

There was apparently an article in the Guardian stating that 6500 migrant workers had died in the ten years since Qatar was awarded the World Cup, during construction of the stadiums. Apparently the actual number who have died during construction is…………..THREE!! Yes, THREE.
It’s true that 6500 migrant people have died in Qatar in the past ten years, but this could be anything from children, labourers, anyone in a car crash, anyone having a heart attack, doctors, nurses, management, basically any foreign nationals who were in Qatar during the past ten years.

Now I don’t know how true all this is, but surely it’s FIFA again spinning things, trying to cover up for their error in awarding Qatar the World Cup.

I also heard this Rob, sounds dubious to me, the terrible figures have been about for ages and only now we get the rebuke.

I watched that tonight.

Maybe if they get through the group stage, England have a decent route. Competition football is all about getting the luck of the draw vice winning a league.

But I'd be cautious if I was an England supporter. Okay, Iran is probably a free pass. But Wales and USA?

Tricky group to navigate. But they should come through, at least in 2nd place.

I think Southgate's bubble has burst. They won't get out of the group...I'm backing Wales. Gareth has been too conservative just like someone else we all know.

If the actual death figures were low, someone would attempt to spin them upwards for their ends.

If they were high, someone would try to minimize them to their particular advantage.

I highly doubt anything like 6,500 have died in the construction process alone. That's approaching two for every single day since the award a decade back... well before construction got started. Few of even the most corrupt places in the world could get away with that over that period today, outside of somewhere as closed off as North Korea. Even then.

Equally, only 3 over the period in an environment of exploitation and minimized costs would be a surprising result.

Potentially the last competition they will be called Wales (in English) as well Eddie. Apparently they will enter in future competitions as Cymru.

They definitely have the best national anthem.

England needs it's own and stop borrowing the UK's.

I’m not as confident in England, as I was in them before their previous two major tournaments, but one thing that intrigues me, is to see if they will look a lot fresher because of the timing of the tournament?

Well should England finish first or second, Danny, then we play anyone from Group A in the last sixteen………Qatar, Ecuador, Senegal or Holland. Shouldn’t be too much of a hurdle facing any of them, Holland included.

Yes, I don't think Holland are up to much right now Rob. Even Germany for that matter. I honestly couldn't pick anyone. I think the tournament is wide open. I was going to go for France, but watching the programme, the pundits seem to be going for Brazil or Argentina.

This is going to be a strange World Cup. Both in terms or timing and location. But I guess we'll all follow it.

I’ll be following it from very close quarters, Danny, as me and the missus are off to Dubai for ten nights. We arrive on the day England play Wales, kick off being 10pm local time. Not a cat in hell’s chance of us popping over to Qatar though.

Enjoy Rob.

Boxing Day will be on your mind, I'm sure!!

Rob, it’s well documented, and I won’t be going extra time to watch this tournament.

Normally a great festival of football and human Spirit, the World Cup, but for me, this is the brown envelope, gold watch, with diamonds, tournament, and neglect of care for the spirit of the game.

Blatter and Platini, spun and won, but for me Platini, the player, is now, nothing, along with Blatter the former FIFA governor, as they showed, their lust for money.

The lack of care in supplying this tournament, by the World Football Authorities, tells it’s own story.

But as Everton are in the 35th record breaking season of Duck Soup, there’s little to say, that’s not been said.

Flashbacks to Michael Branch, missed sitters at Chelsea, this week, for some reason, and in earnest, bar Cottee, Kanchelskis,, AJ, Rom, and DCL, for a season, we have been firing blanks, up front, for decades.

No strikers, no potency, and jeopardy management, now is needed to save this season, and arguably the future of EFC.

The plot is like some mystical script from Ancient Egypt, but it’s culling the Spirit of many Evertonians.

But hope eternal, and all matters Everton.

Fekk, it must get better, on Boxing Day,

I guess that's Ronaldo going elsewhere in January after that outburst at Man Utd and against Ten Hag.

I don't know how reliable the source is and it was a bit vague, but a Premier League club rumoured to be interested in Michael Keane.

Coupled with Godfrey making an appearance for the U21s. Pretty quick recovery and good to see him back to give us options after the restart.

Danny,

It’s rumoured to be West Ham that wants Keane.

Danny, it’s now also being rumoured that Notts Forest are keen on Michael Keane.

Understand all the comments, reflection, examination of the past. But the blame game, protests won't keep us up. Take a look at Juventus v Verona.

Juventus v Lazio. Our Forward came in deputised for their main man. He scored v Verona three days earlier. Got a brace last night in the win.

We saw a young 19-year-old, unhappy, (but took the money) player, couldnt adapt immediately to Premier League. But Juventus kept faith.Agreed to pay us £28million in June.

Okay, cut the crap.

Thelwell, Frank get your arses to Milan. Explain our situation, the dire mess we in No Forwards, goal machines. This is Juventus here, Not us "Everton" as big as we think we are.

Horse trade, who owns Kean. What are the conditions of his loan, deal. This lad just scored three times in four days for Juventus??? Serie A. We think it's a crap league.

Ask Juve to help us. Ask Moise Kean to come play for Frank?? Or give us two Juve forwards for 20 games. Do a deal, agree to discount £10 million, £15 million if they help us stay up.

This is Juventus??? They know agents of forwards. They have clout!!!! Thelwell gets on a plane to Milan, not Sydney. Sort out a couple of goal machines, Frank will be fine. Providing he improves his tactics to go win games. Not hope we can nick it 1-0.

The team, players are drained, knowing we ain't got a Mitrovic, chance in hell of scoring a couple or more every game we play. No wonder we make mistakes, leak. Frank, players all know, fans know the opposition is going to have 20+ shots on us. Us 0 before 70 minutes.

The Juve deal with Kean is an opportunity. Goals, we'll be fine.

Oh, Ronaldo is available for the rest of the season. Much cheaper than changing Frank.
See what he can do with his own Drogba??

Adrian, that sounds suspiciously like a plan and a strategy. Count Everton out.

We keep hearing there are up-and-coming wide and front players in Belgium and Germany. We have been down the route of the Premier League experienced (Maupay and O'Neil). Take a chance on one for a fraction of the fees paid to them two wastes of space.

I know it's scary and could cost Frank his job but what choice does he have left? He's been terrified to chance Stan Mills and Tom Cannon. Same with Dobbin and Simms – total knee-jerk reaction letting them go, relying on a crock like Calvert-Lewin, unfortunately for the lad.

I doubt Moise Kean would ever want to step in this country ever again, let alone Goodison Park or Finch Farm.

As Adrian says, they owe us, and are obliged to pay us, £28M, but only next summer. I suppose they could buy him permanently now, but why should they when they can wait until the summer transfer window?

What does everyone think of the Ronaldo shite with Piers Morgan that is going on? Personally I think that Trump, Morgan and Ronaldo are exactly the same awful personalities with their "ME, ME, ME" way of life...

Second that, Gerry. A bunch of tossers all of them.

Brian 503, just watched Moise Kean in Lazio game.

Well hes an Everton player.Yep, wait get the £28million.

But teading Allegri's comments, hes see's a different Moise Kean.Its why he played him.

So Kean aint 1st pick.So Allegri chats with Moise Kean.

Go back to Premier League you signed for, let down after they paid £30million for you.

Play 20games in Premier League, show them, come back a better player.

They will discount you in June, which is what we are asking for.

Watch him in the game!!!

Is it worth a conversation for Frank to have with Juve, the player.

Ask they to loan a striker.Tom Cannon, ??Didnt play twice for Juve, scored three in five days.Play for PSG.Simms, playing for ??

Sorry,our future in Premier League.I would give Dobbin, Cannon, Simms a go.

But we need proven Strikers now, 23games 69 points, gotta get 30minimum.We got 14 from 45.

Diaz, scores in the Championship??Our future on a gamble.

Sorry, sell Jordon, £60million England keeper, AG 70mins on tge bench, 20mins ??

Sell AG, £50million.

5 others raise £40million.Take £27million Moise.

So there is a War chest, but is their a tried test pair to be bought.

Or is it to late.Forwards that score 52 goals Mitrovic don't grow on trees.

Frank gambled on DCL, played AG thru middle.

Its a mess of club, Franks making.

Where do we get a ready made pair.Isak,Wilson??

Inges, 6 goals, 9games.

We could go on.We all know an Andy Grey,Sharpe type pair will fix us.

Anybody know of two tried tested, we have £100million.

Just heard from a reliable sauce Ronaldo on loan in January till end of season.

Geoff, "a reliable sauce"? Once the bechamel starts talking to you about transfer rumours, it's time to worry.

Geoff ...

"reliable sauce"...the deals on HP then?

Geoff, your source has been on the sauce by the sounds of it.

Robert,

I think it's pasta your bedtime.

Mois Kean. A young player with potential who landed in a foreign country. Add that to what he must have very quickly realised what he'd walked into, and no wonder it didn't work out. Yes, there were attitude and discipline rumours but ultimately a young player and powerful forward full of potential still only 22 as well. A shame in my opinion. He's not coming back so let's get the £28M and reinvest, providing it doesn't disappear down the back of someone's couch.

On protesting, no-one is suggesting disrupting the team. They were on the brink of administration, let alone relegation. And really on the cliff edge by all accounts (no pun intended). Fan protests pretty much led to what was effectively a board room coup. So far, the rest is history.

35 years. Soon to be 36. If you'd have told 15 year old Danny leaving the ground at Norwich on that glorious day in May 1987 that I'd still be waiting 36 years later, I'd have given you a strange look, convinced you were mad and carried on celebrating. Now it's me that's going mad!!

We stood still. We didn't invest and on the occasions we did, we didn't do it wisely often enough. We thought that being a big club would prevail because we were Everton. Stood still at best.

We are a big club. We just haven't behaved like one. Enough is enough.

Well, that was a cheery start to the day. It's going to be a long haul to get to Boxing Day.

What is the rumour?

The rumour is that Juergen Klopp has a very clever, undetectable doping system, Laurie. He's apparently never won anything during a World Cup season, with some experts citing Fifa's very stringent drug testing capabilities, and Klopp has already been on record saying he thinks his team will become a lot better, once this season's tournament is over!

I notice that Ivan Toney of Brentford is being looked at by the FA for 232 alleged breaches of the betting rules.

I wonder if he will get the same punishment as Tony Kay, if found guilty on any of them?

Just seen that, Bill. No wonder he didn't go to the World Cup…

Ivan Toney: Brentford striker charged by FA with 232 breaches of betting rules

No doubt a slap on the wrist for him. Unlike our Tony Kay.

Bill, it was reported that none of the bets involved the team Toney was playing for unlike Tony Kay’s. Kay was very harshly treated, a tragedy.

Lucky for Toney that we didn't sign him up!

Clive
I may be wrong but I believe Tony Kay was voted man of the match that day. Some people say he never played on merseyside after that, bUt in the 60s to the 70s I ran an amateur team the Norgreen and we played a friendly I believe it was against Crawfords and our right winger is still feeling the tackles from T.Kay's spitting double.

Bill (90), yes I read at the time Tony Kay was MotM in the game that was fixed, versus Ipswich if my memory is correct.

Tony did himself no favours by admitting his part in that game to a reporter from The Sunday People, he didn't have to say anything, just act daft and say nothing, too late now.

If you watched some of the mistakes Everton players made last season you could be forgiven if you asked “re they fuckin' at it?” and two or three this season!!

Yes, Tony Kay was MotM that day but the three of them were done for agreeing to fix the match, not really for betting. They had bet against their own team, Sheffield Wednesday. Some people believe he could have lifted the World Cup instead of Bobby Moore, he was that good.

Yes he was MotM in The People. Same paper that published the story that got him banned.

I know its not Premier League, but that miss from the Derby number 3 was a shocker.