Premier League — Matchweek 11

After a 10 minute check No goal for United. Well, at least they got it right. The Ten Hag sag(a) continues.

Ball drops right to Gordon's feet for an open goal at the far post... and he fluffs it up totally.

How did Bruno G not get a red for that???

Toon v Arsenal:

Now that's what you call trying to wipe out a goal with VAR... or not??

That was disgusting, Paul. Clear cynical elbow to head.

But the VAR looks the other way.

And the goal?

Ball out of play
Foul on the Arsenal player
Offside (only one defender)

Three reasons to disallow.

Rob Halligan will be seething!

Just about to post that, Michael. Absolute disgrace.

GORDON'S ALIVE!

Wrong Paul. Gordon's offside

It was, MK.

Do they still do the retrospective weekday punishments / charges? Snide Bruno should be on a red.

Does Rob H hate the barcodes enough to want Arsenal to win?

He should have been sent off three times.

Not offside when both attacking players are past the goalkeeper (or last defender for that matter). The ball has to pass the last defensive player on its way to the receiving attacker for it to be offside.

Will, Gordon was standing on the goal line when the ball was passed to him. Surely he came from an offside position?

Finally, a card for Bruno.

He wasn't quite on the line, Les.

The ball from the header would have to pass the defender forwards to Gordon, who would have to be nearer to the line than that defender.

Anyone still think VARs not bent?

3 reasons to cancel the goal – all ignored. PGMOL must be going on an expenses-free holiday come the summer.

I wonder where?

Jack,

I think they were perhaps "lucky" with the push - close.

The VAR couldn't call the offside because there were too many overlapping bodies blocking his view, making it impossible to draw the lines.

That's the best one yet!

Just reported by BBC.

The VAR could not rule, ball out of play, as no clear view to absolutely confirm it was out. No foul on Gabrielle as not enough contact. Offside lines could not be drawn as too many bodies in the box!

Also men with labradors making the decisions.

That is why Arsenal won't win the title, they can't play poorly and nick a result. Liverpool won their game with Geordies there despite being second best.

It's a two-horse race for me: Liverpool and Man City, they are both winning machines.

Labradors are very intelligent.

Crap, Marine got murdered in the FA Cup, first round.

We need border collies on VAR duty, Will, not labradors.

Borders are at the top of the pooch brain tree, Paul, but the Labrador pips it on empathy (and can be bribed with food).

We don't need no hangdog expressions at Stockley Park!

But hangings might help.

I think it's time for a pause to consider how it works; unlikely.

No chance, sadly, and I think the one change they might do at some point is – like rugby – letting us hear what they communicate.

That may help but I won't hold my breath. There are too many options available to the for "Interpretation".

Paul # 11… definitely.

Gutted that the skunks won. 😡😡

15 fucking minutes into the Sunday morning coverage and they are still talking about VAR. it will remain but had to be seen presently as a failure.

That poor kid, Notts Forest supporter. He's only eleven years old, playing the last post before the Forest v Villa game, when something happened halfway through and he had to stop. He was nearly crying as he walked off, but got a rousing round of applause as he walked off.

Maybe that is enough to tilt me to prefer a draw. I hate cheering for Villa results.

Forest ahead.

A cracker! Nice setup pass to the D. 1-0 Forest

Great to see the young lad get a pat on the back from the players, including our mate Digne
Not so great seeing Forest score
We need a Villa and, hate to say it, a neighbours win today

We are past that John. Enjoy normal PL viewing until Christmas for a reevaluation. I think we are okay to hate on your preferred target of enmity.

Incidentally, this, taken from the Red Echo:

'Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson's Al-Ettifaq suffered a 1-0 defeat against Khalid Al-Shuwayyi's side in front of just 696 fans at the King Abdullah Sports City Stadium'

696 ‘fans'. 🤦🏼

Bollox, we are down to 16th. Forest doing annoyingly well.

Joe. The current bottom 3 won't catch us.

Let's hope Liverpool smash Luton.🤞

Paul 40.

Let's hope they don't hey.

Why would any self-respecting Evertonian want them cunts to win a game?

Hope they get walloped.

Paul,

Wash your mouth out my friend. I know why you said it, but you are a blue and there are no circumstances under which you should be wishing Liverpool well.

Even if it meant us getting relegated, Dave? We must be practical and, tactical.

Dave, I think Paul is right, though: we need all teams below to keep dropping points – even if it means Liverpool win.

So why not just say "Let's hope Luton lose"?

Maybe a gentlemen's draw would do at home? A scumbags' draw?

I want Luton to win. If we can't finish above Luton at the end of the season we would deserve to go down.

[I've just realised while typing this they won at Goodison! 🙁]

Barkley and Townsend start for Luton!

COYXBs.

No Jimmy Husband?

Barkley still has his quality shooting, I see.

Alan, 49, no, he's not got over his miss in the cup final.

Dave the rs mean nothing to me.

If them beating Luton does us a favour, I will take it.

The Red Shite will call on their usual saviour in this game soon, a Salah penalty or a 95th-minute winner from whoever comes on as sub.

The RS are having trouble with Luton for the same reason we did. They have a whole lot of pace and they're willing to run.

Close by Luton!

Was that the miss of the season? Big save following that.

Fecking big LOL

Alan #49 – don't remind me.

Lost the final and lost the scarf my late aunty knitted for me. Awful day.

WOW!

Luton 1 up!

What a break! But VAR to rule out?

Uh huh. Lets see the refs

They''re trying too, Brent.

Love it!

FUCK OFF GET IN

to

Good work by Barkley

Good side this Luton. They could even beat us I imagine!

GET IN

I fancied Luton after 20 minutes.

This Liverpool side are ordinary as fuck.

VAR Victims!

And yellow for Bingo!

Not a good day,

Soren,

I'm now hoping for "two" if that makes sense!

Imagine if Luton were to win this, yet another team that can beat Liverpool since we last did.

brilliant to see Klopp and the Shite humbled.

Oh, sorry… "victimised".

Kabore has delivered on the right several times.

Barkley ain't done too bad either.

Havin' some fun, Adebayo.

Hopefully Luton, will see this game out, with victory!

UTFTs!

Eric Morecambe will be dancing somewhere

Larvley.

Villa and the RS missing the chance to keep pace with the top clubs, so far.

Was previously a specialty of ours.

Ffs

NO!!

One for papa.

Official. They STINK.

It is so written where the RS are concerned.

100 minutes - why ?

Kidnapped a draw, Paul.

A scumbags' draw it is.

Luton would have taken a draw — just like gravel-gob yesterday.

Ouch, Will!

One manager happy. One much less so.

The upside - we remain two wins ahead of Luton.

Where did 10 minutes added time come from??

Fergie time it once was, but it's always been RS time, for made up extra minutes.

They can't even do us a favour when it should have been odds on.

Just look after ourselves.

They are not beneficiaries, remember.

This is important: they are victims.

How fuckn' naive and unprofessional were Luton in those last few minutes? No time-wasting with their corners, throw-ins and goal-kicking, so near and nearly so far, but they put Liverpool back in their chase for the top.

Classical gold when Salah misplaced his header then Nunez further fucked it up with his effort 6 foot over the bar from 2 feet out, Salah rolling over in embarrassment at Nunez's miss, Klopp going into a Hitler impersonation, and the fourth official having a sly smile at Klopp's expense, loved it!

It's that snide smile and the banks of teeth that I hate.

Red shite on 606 asking for heavy fine for Luton for singing 'Always The Victims'.

Maybe we should get Barkley back. He bossed that game.

Paul,

I got called a retarded cretin by a Gobshite on Twitter cos I called them out on their Steua flags. Apparently our shouting at Bill and “attacking” Denise Barrett-Baxendale is as bad as killing 39 Italians.

I fucking hate the cunts!

There are fireworks going off all over the place by me. I presume they are Liverpool fans celebrating a draw at Luton.

Mark (101),

I couldn't understand your last line!

Off the topic … well done to National League Chesterfield and our Harry Tyrer, win and clean sheet against Portsmouth who are top of League One. They progress to play Orient in the FA Cup Round 2.

Mark, what can we expect, the truth does not matter, morals don't matter. And now a fella on 606 is complaining about Luton fans singing 'Feed the Scousers'.

Come on, Cray Valley Paper Mills!

Genuine question but did the fella who was complaining have a scouse accent, Paul?

Dave,

I'm sorry mate but I'm from an age when we used to get on with them. I worked in a bar with a red and agreed to go to one of their matches with him if he returned the gesture. I went to Liverpool v Man City for a 0-0 draw in the 70s and stood in the Kop (shithole stunk of piss). He never returned the gesture.

Point is, we used to begrudgingly get along with them. Heysel changed that. They are cunts and they know it. They are being aggressively defensive ever since. They won't accept blame and they over accentuate their victims' defence to the point that anyone accusing them of being cunts are the actual bad guys.

Cunts the fucking lot of them. Kopites are gobshites!

Cray Valley. What a story.

Mark (108),

I wasn't complaining about your last line, I was being sarcastic. I understood and agreed with it perfectly well.

He did Tony mate.

Thanks, Paul. 🤦‍♂️

Tarred with the same brush... standing back and thinking, I agree with the "Always a Victim" chant, but that's because I associate it with the RS, its club and fans.

But then in hindsight I remembered that actually that chant is used against the people of Liverpool, us included, by anyone and everyone who wants to stick the knife in to Scousers, who, the media seems to forget, are not just Reds. (Scousers are Liverpudlians, the city not the club.)

That's not to say of course that I have a righteous indignation when I feel every man and his dog is against us in a conspiracy of hate against all things Everton. It's just my paranoia after all… I mean I still believe Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot JFK.

Yet another week were the main topic of conversation amongst fans is yet more complaints about the VAR. This was supposed to be a system which rectified clear and obvious mistakes, but this is no longer the criterion.

Every goal is scrutinised to the minute detail, so now when a goal is scored, we have to temper our celebrations while we wait to see if the VAR is looking at it.

We had 2 decent shouts for penalties but the ref waived play on and I have no idea whether the VAR reviewed those decisions or not.

I was also interested to hear Mike Dean's comments a few weeks ago when he said he probably should have corrected a mistake made by the on-field ref when he was the VAR, but because he was having (as Dean described) a tough time, Dean decided not to intervene. So his decision was to protect a colleague who was having a tough time rather than correct the decision.

So we now know that there are other reasons in play why the VAR isn't being used properly as there are other considerations going through the VAR's mind.

We have now reached a point where players, managers and fans don't trust the decisions being made by the VAR, and there are multiple occasions every week which suggests that the VAR is not fit for purpose.

I think the only way we can restore any faith in the VAR is to use it for what we were originally told it was for: clear and obvious mistakes. So unless a player is clearly offside – and I would change the rule to say unless there is clear daylight between the attacker and the defender – then it's not offside. Then we don't have lines being drawn which many question, so no lines needed: if there isn't clear daylight, the player is onside.

I have to agree with Brian's comment on the VAR, especially the offside call. It used to be that there had to be another opposition player as well as the keeper between you and the goal to be considered onside; now, you are offside if you have bigger feet than a defender, and your toe is ahead of him.

I said at one time, although sometimes it is useful, it is taking the excitement of goal-scoring out of the game as they have to go back 2 or 3 moves before it is considered okay.

Brian @114

The VAR for the Newcastle game couldn't draw the lines because they weren't sure at which point the ball was played, in order to assess offside.

The whole of the ball may not have been out of play and it wasn't clear that the Newcastle player fouled the Arsenal defender in the build-up to the goal.

I was watching in the pub, with no sound on, and I thought it would be ruled out on at least one of those criteria.

As for the non-penalty decisions at Goodison, they both looked valid claims at the time, particularly the McNeil incident, MotD didn't focus on either but they did at least show them.

I see Doucoure says that Saturday's referee apologised to him for not allowing play to continue by giving an advantage, which would have left Doucoure through on goal, when the ref decided to blow for a free-kick to Everton.

That particular type of incident has happened too often in Everton matches for my liking, it can't be purely coincidence can it?

In Cricket, the team can ask for a DRS review.
In American Football, the team can ask for an Instant Replay.

Also, in both cases, the umpire can make the request, as is the case for the referee with a TMO in Rugby Union.

But the number of challenges are limited. I would like to see the same in football: 2 challenges per match. Any correct challenge keeps the challenge.

To make it more interesting – having used up their 2 challenges, teams may challenge with the loss of making a substitute. If they have made their 5 subs, then they can no longer challenge.

And put a time limit on the deliberations. What is the longest Cricket DRS? What is the longest NFL Instant Replay? I am sure that is not 5 minutes.

Oh and the other change, as suggested above: people who need a Labrador on fixed lead should not be allowed in the booth.

Looks like Richarlison has been dropped with Johnson coming in.

After the best part of one billion, that's not an especially daunting looking Chelsea team. Sterling, Gallagher and Palmer in the middle looks lightweight, though I'd have Gallagher at The Old Lady in a heartbeat. Can't say that about many others in that side: James, Caicedo, Fernandez. Spuds, on the other hand .......

I'm thinking a clear two-goal win for Spurs.

The Armed Forces Spurs Supporters Club?

Danny O'Neill might be missing a trick here – I've not heard that we have anything equivalent?

A tad poxy goal.

I thought the Spurs bugler was better than ours

Whatever decision that wipes the fucking smile off Son's face is fine by me.

Shite defending by Porro

Does Romero want to get a red?

Romero is a nasty twat.

Utterly, Will.

Wouldn't mind seeing a bit of football among the VAR now.

Why does that gormless twat Palmer put his finger over his mouth after scoring that, barely?

Crazy game this. Could have been two red cards for Spurs already. There will be about 15 minutes added on time in the first half here.

This added on stuff is just getting nuts, but how long was that VAR delay, another disallowed goal.

Crazy game, more reds on the way here.

More added time?

Spurs have come far since not so long ago being loaned over £100 million by the Bank of England.

I wonder if that helps them when it comes to VAR decisions? Dirty team. Reckon we'd be down to 9 players by now.

Don't players get booked anymore for diving in the area? A blatant dive by Sterling, yet no booking.

No extra extra time?

Check badge...lol

Will, I think Michael Oliver has had enough, and just wanted to get off for his half time cuppa.

Should've played a further 5 minutes, bad injury in the added time, another VAR check, someone in Olivers ear said end this as soon as, Sterling the cheating bar steward should have been booked, he's scott free to commit another offence, not fair on spuds that, game is bent.

Probably so, Rob - it did feel a long half.

So we need to remember the word “Petulant”, the next time we have a player sent off for an innocuous challenge.

I'll know that the officials aren't at all bent, when a team goes to the other place, scores an offside goal, has it chalked off but get a penalty awarded instead, plus they then get an opponent sent-off into the bargain - all in the same move. It'll never happen! Arsenal and Spurs have paid for the sins of White Hart Lane a few weeks back, haven't they? the other lot must feel justice has been done, and they'll stop moaning now, won't they?

If I was Oliver, I'd just refuse to come out for the 2nd half

Barry are you disagreeing with any of the decisions in particular?

One thing I'm surprised at is that VAR made the call that Jackson was interfering with play in the offside. Why isn't that the ref's call?

Shane @ 142
Not disagreeing with the decisions in the main, it was such a weird collection of incidents and shows that VAR is over-reaching, I'd have preferred as a neutral to have seen Son's goal given and the incident packed Chelsea goal given too. I just can't imagine a team visiting the neighbours getting the same treatment as Chelsea just did, that's all.

Good luck Spurs. Nine men for the last thirty five minutes. Udogie sent off.

utter mong challenge on a yellow

Ricky - correct!

Mad challenge that on a yellow, just could have closed him out.

not quite Nunez but that was a boss miss

Fucking mental this game!

Spurs to win 4-1

Hope the Spuds hold out

how shite is jackson

The difference in the squads compared to ours. Mind boggling, this is why we have 2% of the ball. Lol

The way Spurs keeper keeps coming legging out of his area to try and clear a through ball, he's going to catch a Chelsea player, and be sent off.

Spurs will try and get a Chelsea player sent off here, it's their only hope, too long left.

Ange gone too early with his last subs there, what about injuries?

Chelsea should have spent £2B! £1B is apparently not enough.

Finally seen a goalie that challenges JP for top in league..

Chelsea embarrassing themselves,they were better against 10 &11 !

Have to hand it to Spurs, they are tight and brave with that high line. Sterling standing offside thinking he can disrupt them, just getting ignored.

Anyone seen Andy Gray's interview with Tarks and McNeil at the BMD site?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1715689049199931480

Murdyk £88.5m ?

Chelsea scores

Tony, Damarai Gray is a way better player than Murdyk.

And an 8½-year contract for Murdyk – even Nicholas could not have missed that but Nunez would.

Jackson is offside for the pass to Sterling, yet he goes on to score?

Michael - "Second phase".

That 'goal' decision seems familiar…

Dyer did a Dunk.

Michael, I don't get it, the goalscorer Jackson is offside and in an advantageous position ahead of the defence but it's not counted as offside? Rules don't seem fair in that instance.

O/S.

Spurs fans could not have imagined a derby catastrophe like this. Two major injuries, two red cards, offsides cancelling goals... what a nightmare.

second phase stuff Tony

A toe-nail gets you offside but stand a yard off, so long as it's 'second phase' it's ok, what a load of tripe the rules have become.

Note to Everton players, when tackled, throw selfs to floor...oh add a scream also.. seems to work for other teams.

Artificial Intelligence is beginning it's takeover plans, starting with sport, particularly English top-flight footy.

Thanks, the rules don't seem fair in moves like that, unless it's Everton doing the scoring of course.

If it had been a free-kick, sent through to Sterling (onside) who then plays in Jackson in the same move, but Jackson had been offside at the free-kick, it would never stand.

What's the difference? A few touches from Sterling makes it "second phase"? I don't geddit.

I can't recall the teams involved but I saw a non-call due to second phase that allowed the winger to have a 10-yard distance from his cover.

He's out there no call, the ball goes through on the other side and he is in the clear for a square pass. It was absurdly not called offside even then.

Don't know why Spurs are moaning there, the Chelsea lad got the ball, well both of them actually.

Never thought I'd see Jackson 2

Michael, you've actually sort of explained it there.

You can be in a potentially offside position anytime you like. What matters is your status when involved with the play - in this case, when receiving the ball. He wasn't offside when he received the ball, in a later phase of play.

Thought Son was gonna equalize there.

Even more, Nicholas 3

Still time for another sending off.

Will @181,

Doesn't the fact that Jackson has an unfair advantage on a defender when running into the box mean anything in today's game?

I understand your explanation, just don't understand why the rules are like that, when they are so snippy for elbows and toe-nails being offside.

Only two more to go for the headline wet dream.

Nunez would have missed that.

Five Star, Tony?

Oh, sorry – wrong band.

Yes Mike a strange ending, could have been 2-2, seen Son score many in those positions, then three minutes later it's 1-4.

Cole Palmer looks like a virgin.

Barry, he could have gotten into the same position as from where he scored, from an initial onside position.

The play effectively caught up to his position, and not offside when receiving the pass, in the next "phase" of play.

Paul,

When I lost mine, I still looked like a little girl, so he's probably doing fine.

I got two mates who both lost their virginity at 45, one gay, one straight, one an Oxford professor, other a printworker.

Barry,

I agree about the toenails thing though.

Glad I wasn't a professor or a print worker.

Imagine drawing an offside line across the old Baseball Ground pitch!

On topic - what a great game that was, once the 85 VAR checks were done.

I thought it was horrid, Will, everything that is wrong with the VAR.

I know, but I fear the digital interventions will only get worse with time. It's the chosen path.

If a centre-forward stands on the penalty spot of the opponents box, whilst the ball is in his own half, he can remain there and not be deemed offside, so long as the ball only reaches him from the wings, he's not then called offside because it's second-phase?

I'm exaggerating of course, but I hope you can see my confusion about the whole thing.

Got to love Ange. No shiting on about refs. He's had decisions go for him and against him in his career. Move on.

Agree Shane, there's something straightforward about him. I suppose it will be put down to Ozzie candour.

More from Ange Postecoglou on the VAR decisions: "There will be a forensic study of every decision out there, I think that is the way the game is going and I don't like it. If you look at all that standing around we did today, maybe people enjoy that sort of thing but I'd rather see us playing football."

On Tottenham sending-offs: "You have to accept the referee's decision, that is how I grew up. This constant erosion of the referee's authority is where the game is going to get - they are not going to have any authority. We are going to be under the control of someone with a TV screen a few miles away.

"The decision is the decision. In 26 years I have had plenty of bad decisions, I have had plenty fall in my favour. It is what it is."

On playing with a high line down to nine men: "It is just who we are, mate, it is who we are and who we will be for as long as I am here. If we go down to five men we will have a go."

Pity Tim Cahill couldn't have persuaded his compatriot to come to Everton as our manager. Oh well… at least we have Sean.

Love that: 'It is just who we are, mate!'

Yes, Fair play to 'Ange', who probably was less than 45 when he first plunged into 'Flange'. Anyway, I digress.

Fairplay for him not having kittens about Chelsea's second goal. The rules are most definitely fucking stupid.

In days gone by, at least two of the disallowed goals would probably have stood. One was brought back for a penalty, the other (Dier) was a 50/50 as to final contact, Spurs or Chelsea.

But for me, it was a game full on, but for me the offside law now is a farce, the centre-forward 20 yards ahead of the last man, gaining an unfair advantage but not deemed offside…

To say he is not interfering with play is wrong. He is because the defence cannot ignore him, thereby he is interfering with play. He could stand on the goal line and not be offside unless the ball is played forward to him or a defender touches the ball. Why not just go the whole hog and ditch the offside law completely?

That would have been a far better game without the VAR.

Christine, I agree – if you're not interfering with play you wouldn't be on the bloody pitch!

Anybody in the game is ‘interfering with play' as the defenders have to keep an eye on you regardless, bollocks rule (and another that is subjective and goes against unfavoured clubs).

I have just had as much enjoyment reading that post explaining what the Spurs manager said, in Barry's post, as I have had out of watching football this season!

I said it on Saturday, when the ref booked the Brighton player for dissent, that this should now be happening all the time because it's obvious nobody respects the ref anymore but I suppose one of the reasons nobody respects these referees is because of how inconsistent they currently are.

The game has been ruined by the VAR and I believe football has become at least three times more controversial since it was brought into the league.

True Tony but fans, and none more than us on this site, are non-stop moaning about decisions.

Pre-VAR, the job of the officials was impossible but everywhere you looked, fans of every club were convinced the officials had it in for them. Imagine that. Every club being fucked over for an official not getting a close decision right in real time in that environment.

The VAR has improved the accuracy of decisions made but, in my opinion, it has reduced the quality of the decision-making on the pitch as the officials know, subconsciously, that they have the VAR to fall back on.

The VAR should have been a solution to previous incompetency.

It is simply masking that incompetency further, shrouded behind secrecy and a cloak-and-dagger mentality as there is no transparency.

A bizarre match. I don't think Tottenham can have any complaints about the sending-offs on both counts.

Also, if I heard correctly, Tottenham ended the match with only 4 of the original starting 11 on the pitch.

I've become so enraged by having to wade through knee-deep fields of utter shite about Everton as promulgated by the continuous NewsNow feed.

Perhaps starting each day by seeing what's on the Everton page at The Athletic is a better curation policy… Here's a meaty one for starters:

VAR survey results: More than 50% want to keep it but majority say game is worse off

I think I'm right in saying that serious journalism about Everton (The Athletic, The Times, The Telegraph…) doesn't make it into the shite-ridden NewsNow feed. Perhaps there's a clue there? Perhaps we should quietly withdraw our stories…???

I used to joke about how hard it was to explain the offside law to my semi-interest Mrs.

Last night, my Mrs tried until she was blue in the face to explain it to me. She failed. She failed because it is now so wide open to interpretation.

When they introduced this "first and second phase" lark, they opened a right can of worms. Now they can't get the lid back on. Why oh why do we complicate the simple? Fix what isn't broken?

As for the VAR? It's killing the game. Sure, there have always been iffy decisions, but at least it was proper footy, warts 'n' all. A decision was made and we all got on with the game.

Now we look at situations 10 or 15 times and still manage to miss the blindingly obvious. Waiting 10 minutes to find out whether or not we can celebrate a goal is killing that explosion of joy; fanatical footy fans are becoming completely disillusioned.

I blame the Yanks... and the kopites. I also have a suspicious eye on those Geordie fuckers. They are benefiting too much not to have had a hand in its introduction. New Newcastle without the VAR = Old Newcastle

Everyone else hates it.

I didn't see the game, only caught the highlights later, but the after-match interview with the Spurs manager Postecoglou was something that should be shown to all other Premier League managers. I haven't heard that sort of attitude to the refs decisions since the late great Brian Clough.

He said "the ref makes the decisions and we abide by those decisions, that's all I have done all my life".

The reporter then asked him "Was it wise, when going down to 9 men, to hold such a high line?"

He said "Look that's who I am. If we had gone down to 5 men, I would still want my team to go for the win".

How refreshing to hear a manager want to play the game the way it should be played. Yes, he could have sat deep and some will argue that had he done that Spurs may have got something from the game. But I know they will win a lot more games than they lose with that attitude.

I thought Spurs had taken a massive risk when they appointed this Aussie who had managed Celtic, doesn't look such a risk now, and he has done this despite losing Kane in the summer. That alone would have derailed many a team.

Brian # 214,

A winning mentality. It is rife in all Australian sports. That is why Australia does so well globally given the size of the population. <>When he brought Dier on for Maddison, Dier scored a cracker that was disallowed. They never caved in until extra time - caught on the break going for the equaliser with nine men.

P.S. and —- “if we go down to five men we'll have a crack”. I hope he takes them to the title.

I really wanted Ange as manager before we got Dyche. The guy's a winner. I used to watch the Celtic training videos, he never stopped his players for pressing and running, he demanded that.

Then we have Dyche against Brighton, total opposite. Hang on for a point, Depressing.

Brian #214,

Did I also see many of the Spurs fans still there towards, and at, the end?

Seemed to be a style of play that they are tuned into (or just while they're quite successful?),

I would have loved Ange here, too. Even many Rangers fans I know really liked the football his Celtic team played!

I suspect he was considered and asked. I suspect he took one look at car-crash Everton and waited for the better offer he ultimately got.

And I remember the furore amongst Celtic fans when they were 'certain' to get Howe and ended up with this Aussie bloke.

Brian,

I wonder if it's the same Postecoglu who always accepts the ref's decision who got booked during the game last night for stepping out of his technical area to question the ref's decision?

That high line last night with 9 men wasn't clever and it didn't make the manager some sort of tactical genius. It was tactical suicide. It reminds me of Silva doing the same at Mordour when we lost 5-2 and he got sacked.

Dyche often gets accused of having poor in-game management but always playing a high lane and not deviating from it to adapt to the game like last night is exactly the same. They lost 4-1 and that's the only thing that counts.

Chris, I said during the game last night, that the Spurs goalkeeper, Vicario, could have been in danger of being sent off, the amount of times he was coming running out of his penalty area when Chelsea were playing plenty of through balls through the Spurs high line.

Vicario was playing, in effect, like a sweeper, with his starting position on the edge of, or just outside his area. There were one or two occasions when he just beat the oncoming Chelsea striker to the ball, but any mis judgment, and he too would have been off.

So, right or wrong, who knows, but with such a high line, sooner or later Chelsea would have scored. When the RS were down to nine men at Spurs, they defended really deep, and it almost paid off for them. So yes, you're probably right in that it doesn't make Postecoglou a tactical genius.

Postecoglu and Spurs will crash and burn soon if last night was anything to go by. You can't survive in this league playing like that week in and week out. It's just not sustainable

It's nothing to do with being a tactical genius. It's about having the balls and trying to win a match. I like Dyche he seems a nice fella, but he sets up not to lose. The Spurs manager is different, it's win at all cost. I know which I prefer.

Rob, agreed 100%. Chelsea beat the high line with ease time and time again and but for the keeper it woud have been 7 or 8.

I'd have been more impressed if the manager had adapted his tactics and went compact and forced Chelsea to try to break them down as I reckon Chelsea would have struggled to get through them.

I agree, Andrew. It's all very well doing what he did in a two-horse race, Mickey Mouse Scottish league, but it's a whole different kettle of fish trying to do it down here. Celtic might have conceded one or two goals setting up like that, but they knew they would be more than good enough to score down the other end.

There was not a cat in hell's chance of Spurs even managing a draw last night, playing that way with nine men.

The fans did not stay behind to applaud these brainless tactics. They stayed behind because their nine men didn't stop working and gave it a right good go.

Spurs didn't attack in the second half until they went behind. They're forwards dropped, but the defence still pushed up. Their numerical disadvantage was compounded by the fact that the whole team was squeezed into the same 15 yards with a third of the pitch between the defenders and their keeper.

Once Chelsea went 2-1 up. They had to try for an equalizer. You can't get less than zero points.

Spurs go to the Etihad soon. If the Spurs defenders leave that much space between the keeper and themselves up there. The all-time record for the number of goals in one Premier League game will be smashed.

My money is on Ange changing his "unchangeable" philosophy by the time he gets to Manchester.

I'd agree with that Dave Cashen.

Recognition of a committed performance.

But those tactics and the high line, even with 11 players on the pitch, was risky at best and that's being polite.

Everton's 'fame' is resonating with the Spanish media if this report is anything to go by:

Real Madrid manager Carlo Ancelotti has been criticised for his latest comments following the draw with Rayo Vallecano and showing an Everton-like mentality.

Bernabeu Digital cover reaction the Italian manager today, specifically from journalist Javier Rubiano, who is keen to remind Ancelotti that ‘Real Madrid is not Everton'.

The Spanish giants drew 0-0 with Rayo Vallecano at home over the weekend, a result which naturally didn't go down well with the Real Madrid fanbase.

Who'd be a football manager, eh?

Let's see which tactical genius finishes higher in the league.

So Paul #229

You reckon Spurs with their billion pound squad will finish ahead of Everton's bargain basement all sorts.

Pretty bold shout!

Paul, playing like that every week, then Postecoglou won't see the season out.

Let's make it fairer. If everyone was fit, how many of our players would get into their first team?

Brendan. If we could swap managers. I'd bet we would finish above spurs.

Brendan, tot up the cost of both squads there and report back.

Ange didn't say he'd play this way every game. It was the last question and he wanted out of there. He said it's just who we are and if we go down to five we'll still have a crack.

He got too popular on here too quick. Back down to Earth with ya, Ange.

Brendan, on second thoughts, scrap that. These players don't have the ability or brains to play the way Postecoglou wants.

Shane @210,

Reading your post, I see so many contradictions but I'm not actually accusing you of contradicting yourself if that makes any sense, mate!

Spurs should drop the high line, avoid going relentlessly for the win, and ask Ange to watch Sean's masterclass from the weekend. Then they might begin to climb the table from 2nd.

Paul.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge, what with you having watched all those Celtic training videos. Especially as you had campaigned long and hard for Ange to get the Everton job on the back of them.

If St Ange tried that high line with Tarkowski, Young, Keane and Mykolenko, or indeed Seamus, he would have us relegated by Christmas!

Ange had some chips to play with so it is likely he did that for the home crowd knowing Chelsea were out of form and he might get away with it.

I hope some of you are right about future struggles but that squad believes in his tactics for now and that coming concerns me.

Paul, do you seriously think the Spurs players wanted to play a high line, with nine men, with over half-an-hour still left to play, because I don't.

If they had their way, they would have been defending on the edge of their own penalty area, soaking up everything Chelsea could throw at them, the same way the RS did a few weeks ago.

Spurs players deep down must have thought they would eventually concede, but hey ho, let's do what Postecoglou wants.

Tony, it doesn't, but not to worry.

Dave # 238, this is the key point. We can all look at other clubs like Villa and Spurs and think the grass would be greener if only we had Emery or Postecoglu.

However, look at the squads of our competitors and the spending.

We're about £300m of spending behind Villa and about £400m behind Spurs.

This is like adding Ward-Prowse, Mbeumo, McTominay, Eze, Tierney, Pedro Porro and Richarlison (and more) to our current squad.

The greener grass comes from spending big money.

Spurs only conceded two very late goals after having chances to equalise, Rob.

Dave I'm not saying he's the best manager in the world, I predicted Spurs would finish 8th before a ball was kicked. But his attitude is totally different from Dyche and refreshing.

I still think Dyche would play defensive if he was manager of Man City.

Paul # 243, we'll never find out how Dyche would play with Man City's riches but you're certainly right that he's no Guardiola. It takes a different sort of manager altogether to do what Guardiola has done, which is truly remarkable stuff.

That said, Dyche is following a pretty similar approach to Ancelotti who is not otherwise known for dour football and, despite his age, is no dinosaur – as the overhaul of Real Madrid's aging squad has shown. Add better players to the current squad and the football (not bad by the standards since Martinez left) will get better accordingly.

Personally I think 3 years of Dyche might give us the foundations to appoint someone to take us to the next level. It may even be that Dyche himself is able to kick us on to that next level having built a better squad.

Paul, all three goals Spurs conceded after going down to nine men, were all breakaways, as a result of the ridiculous high line. If they had defended deep, then they may have got away with a draw.

Rob,

I'm also a bit perplexed by people (not just on here) praising the Spurs manager for keeping the high line. They got humiliated as a result.

Okay, they would've probably got beat with 9 men even if they parked the bus, but his tactics were suicidal imo and guaranteed the heavy loss.

Just to be clear, I'm not praising the high line, just giving a rationale for it. Ange is a gambler and that could cost him in the race.

As a Dyche supporter, I would obviously have gone low block and definitely would have subbed Udogie.

That's their first league defeat so far and with nine men. Anyone would think Spurs are bottom of the league.

Duncan, I don't get it either. I always say, if you can't win the game, then make sure you don't lose it. It clearly looked like Postecoglou wanted to lose last night, but thought “What the heck, let's go down fighting”.

Steve Brown, if Spurs had watched Sean's tactical masterclass from the weekend then they might be another point closer to the top rather than being battered 4-1 at home to one of their biggest rivals with the most suicidal defensive set up possible when down to 9 men. Goal difference might matter to them come the end of the season too. They weren't actually losing when they went down to 9 men but his tactical set up cost them 3 goals that ensured their defeat, all 3 of which which Dyche's set up on Saturday wouldn't have been conceded.

Brighton managed 2 shots on target on Saturday and didn't score from either of them. Their XG was 0.51. It actually was a tactical masterclass from Dyche that nearly paid off!

I had a feeling it wouldn't make sense, Shane, but that's just the nature of this present system, mate.

The offside rule is so hopeless for today's high-speed game. Drawing lines to make a judgement on offside is ludicrous in my opinion.

The game contains 22 players, 1 referee and a football… all moving parts! I would change the rule to read that anyoverlap between attacker and defender is ruled onside. That should reduce the waiting time for the VAR decision and return an element of immediacy for supporters to celebrate a goal. We should get more goal per game also.

As for the confusing issue of added time at the end of each half of the game, why not adopt the 30 minutes for each half, using a clock counting down where the clock is stopped whenever the ball is out of play?

Players and fans alike would know how much time was left and, as a bonus, there should be a reduction in yellow cards for time wasting.

Just a few thoughts of mine. COYB

John, I think it is simply a personnel problem. My uninformed impression was that the refs demanded a governing role in a process that overwhelms them. Mismatch in training, separate skils to integrate digital tools, whatever, it is territorial minded stuff that got us here. At least now they are fully known to be culpable for this mess.

Get in. Dortmund lead the skunks. 👍👍👍

Great stuff 'Germans' in hideous red shite Boardman's accent

A fantastic Shaktar goal just happened. Long diagonal pass to the right flank with enough time for the winger to loft a cross into the box. Their 4-1-4-1 is giving Barca something to think about.

I think Newerton on the Shaktar's left is worth a look. They got him for €3M.

Not an image I'm comfortable with, Paul!

Me neither mate.

Get in…….2-0. 👍👍👍😂

Nice one Dortmund, sucker punch Skunks!

Skunks seem to be somewhat out of their league

Skunks have to win in Paris, though a draw might sneak them through if they beat Milan at home.

Would love to see Ten Hag and co dumped in the Europe League along with the skunks.

Absolutely brilliant Cope del Rey game between Gimnastica Segoviana and Sestao - GS down to 10 men since '55 and 3-1 down score two in add-on time to send it into extra time.

Sevilla need this bad so it should be a good watch. I like En-Nesyr, seems a potential PL striker. Do em Mikel!

I want Sevilla to win, lovely city, smells of oranges all year long, went to a bullfight there, like seeing 'teta rattled

Rattled by Kai's shitty header there.

i'm watching man-utd mate, I smell blood

1-0 man utd

I can't wait for a game that features Trossard and the CL ref that looks like him.

Is Brynhildsen doing anything?

Trossard will be at Fulham or Palace soon.

Not likely, he just scored nicely teaming with Saka. 1-0 Arse

Haavertz was the odd buy for me. I see it but I wouldn't have sogned him.

I'm watching United, and listening to Robbie Savage saying by the letter of the law it is a penalty. The spot kick has been given, but the laws are definitely killing the sport🤮

Man Utd lose 4-3…. The winner scored by Roony. 👍👍😁😁

Just talking to a Man Utd fan I've know for 30 years (from Altrincham), who looked after me at Old Trafford last season.

Writing is on the wall for Ten Hag.

Can't believe Paul Scholes doesn't think the Rashford red card shouldn't have been red.

For fuck's sake, he could have snapped the fella's ankle in half. Rashford completely missed the ball and carried on towards the defender's ankle. If Scholes doesn't think that's a red, then what is?

Rob,

Do you remember watching Scholes tackle? Whenever he did it was like that. He doesn't know how to tackle.

Just hope the new manager bounce doesn't help Man Utd at Goodison weekend after next!

It's an interesting one, Brian.

I wanted Ten Hag at Everton and my thought process at the time was that, given his Ajax experience, he could have been good at developing players.

Okay, he was at Bayern Munchen, but he was working with Bayern II, their B Team who played in the 3rd tier and regional leagues. A step between the youth set-up and the first team squad.

Just a thought, but out of his depth taking on the Man Utd job, like Moyes, so could have been a good fit for Everton?

Scholes was one of my favourite English midfielders that I've watched outside of Peter Reid.

But tackling wasn't in his locker!

To lose to Toulouse with two loose goals would be humiliating.

I don't usually partake in the Liverpool bashing but Steve McManaman in despair in commentary when that late goal was disallowed was comedy gold.

Some of the Sky pundits on Sunday were saying oh that Havertz's tackle was just reckless, it was a strong yellow. I couldn't believe what I was hearing as he flew in with two feet off the ground. I couldn't understand the reasoning of the ref or the VAR at all with regards that incident.

The review panel today said:

“The panel was unanimous that Kai Havertz should have been sent off for Arsenal in the 36th minute for his challenge on Sean Longstaff as it was "a very dangerous challenge and the type of tackle that needs to be eradicated" -- a decision which would have altered the direction of the game.”