Fan Article Nathan Patterson: Keep, Loan or Sell? The Glaswegian has played under 4 different permanent managers and is yet to make his anticipated impact on the Toffees. Billy Birmingham 11/07/2025 131comments | Jump to last Nathan Patterson joined Everton from Glasgow Rangers at an unbearable time for the club. The ill-fated Rafael Benítez made the right-back his second signing of the January 2022 transfer window, 3 days after the successful signing of Vitalii Mykolenko. Whilst both signings brought hope for the Blues, only the latter has emerged as a first-team starter, 3½ years on. In that lengthy period, Patterson has made just 49 Premier League appearances, with 23 of these as a substitute. Although a string of injuries has sidelined the ex-Rangers man for around one-third of his Everton career, the notion that he simply hasn’t been selected due to disappointing performances for the remainder of his Everton career is evidently reasonable. Notably, Sean Dyche was clearly not an admirer; however, it is difficult to judge how current manager David Moyes sees Patterson’s future at Everton. One of the right-back's key attributes is generally thought to be his crossing ability, which he was renowned for during his time at Rangers, yet Evertonians have merely seen diminutive glimpses of this. A simple 10-yard pass to tee up the dynamic Dwight McNeil for a twisting scorcher against Ipswich Town was his sole assist last season. In contrast, free agent Kyle Walker-Peters recorded 2 fine assists in an abysmal Southampton side last campaign and has appeared as a viable solution to Everton’s chronic right-back issues. If Everton do capture frequent target Walker-Peters, or a player of his level to fill the role, that would leave Patterson in an awkward situation. Does he remain as a somewhat inconsistent back-up, alongside veteran Seamus Coleman, with his playing time reduced at the age of 23? Or would a loan move to a high-level Championship club suffice for his missed minutes due to injury? Both options will likely depend on the Scot’s performance over the course of pre-season. Some supporters may suggest a permanent move would be beneficial for both Patterson and the club, yet for me, it not only seems illogical to list the 23-year-old – who perhaps still has a couple of years to realise his full potential – but also unlikely that there will be any concrete interest in the right-back from other clubs. In addition, the £16M fee Everton paid for him would only be partially generated back, given his awful injury record at such a young age. It is incredibly easy to forget that Patterson has been contracted at Everton for over 3 years, but it seems that now is the time for him to step up and find his feet – whether that is at the Hill Dickinson Stadium or elsewhere. Whilst his future will be divisively debated, all Evertonians can agree that Patterson must play more football to become a first-team starter for the Blues. Reader Comments (131) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Andrew Ellams 1 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:30:28 Keep due to lack of cover but for that reason only. Michael Kenrick 2 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:36:58 Good article, Billy. Nathan Patterson had been going below the radar but those eagle eyes at The Echo. Here's what Joe Thomas says:Nathan Patterson is one of a handful of players who, even in a small squad, face a summer in which they have work to do to convince the Everton hierarchy to give them a serious role in the upcoming season. The right-back has been plagued by injury since joining from Rangers in 2022 and had to watch from the sidelines as the likes of Jake O'Brien and Ashley Young shared duties during much of the second half of the campaign.The longer the club goes without bringing in a new option, the more time Patterson, still only 23, has to convince his superiors he deserves a chance. Unlike last summer, Patterson is fit for pre-season and, like Beto, could be heard receiving praise for his work in the one-v-one drills as he fought off the advances of Isaac Heath.I must admit personally I quite like watching him. But I'm an unashamed advocate of attacking football and like watching players who go forward and look to deliver the ball with intent. That's why I liked Dixon too… and Nkounkou before him. But apparently the smart money says they don't do enough defending… and so that's them done. Even though scoring goals is the name of the game and something we seem to have become increasingly incompetent at. (Yes, a personal word of thanks here for the hugely frustrating efforts of one Dominic Calvert-Lewin over the past 9 years... sorry, I wasn't going to mention him.) Kevin Molloy 3 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:42:24 sell? Loans is all we'll be offered. Liam Mogan 4 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:47:58 MK 2 - I've never seen anything in Nathan Patterson's attacking ability which would make up for his defensive deficiencies.He's never scored a goal and he's never provided any reliable delivery from wide areas? If we can replace him then I would. Rick Cole 5 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:05:24 He's had f all opportunity. There is a player in there for sure And we need that player.Give the kid some trust and I think he can be exactly what we need Billy Birmingham 6 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:12:40 Thanks Michael (2), like you, I am a huge fan of attacking-minded fullbacks. However, I'd say Digne was the last fullback for us who actually consistently provided quality crosses into the box for strikers to attack. I'm sure Patterson is a solid crosser of the ball, but we haven't seen this enough to make a clear decision, hence why a loan deal may give us a greater insight into what he can offer going forward. The decision to sell Nkounkou was incredibly poor. I also saw something in him that obviously Everton didn't. Hopefully Dixon can return from the rumoured Stockport loan and emerge as a regular starter. Steve Shave 7 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:14:21 Keep but only because we have no hope of anyone buying him, let's try and get a tune out of him as a back up RB. You never know. Andy Crooks 8 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:19:12 I have a feeling, based on very little, that he is going to be a top player for us. A run of games and a bit of confidence might just change things.To be fair, though, this is the only time of the year when I am mildly optimistic. Dan Parker 9 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:28:19 Keep. He'll get coached properly under Moyes and we need squad depth. Josh Horne 10 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:28:59 I don't believe that Coleman can provide the cover that we will need, I would not have given him another contract. However, I expect O'Brien will always be used as right-back cover ahead of Patterson and that's why Moyes has decided to keep Keane. I don't think Patterson has a future at the club, a loan at least takes him off the wage bill. Jarmo Rahnasto 11 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:30:02 He has the ability to attack but is a very poor defender. He gets beaten on 1 vs 1 situations all the time and cant read the game defensively. Maybe as a winger he could shine like Coleman at the start of his career. Dale Rose 12 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:31:11 Keep, there is a player in there. I'm sure Moyes will bring it out of him. Raymond Fox 13 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:31:13 He is as I have said already is somewhat of a mystery man.He's been injured a lot of the time but managers don't seem to fancy him much.If its a defencesive issue surely it can be corrected, workrate is the easier to point out to the player, positional play can surely be learned.I would imagine they and him have already tried so what do I know. Mark Boullé 14 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:42:27 The only hope I have for him is that Moyes managed to turn a raw, rough diamond that was Seamus Coleman into one of the finest right backs ever to grace Goodison Park. Perhaps he can save Patterson's Everton career... Ian Bennett 15 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:48:51 The lad needs to play 30-40 games. I am not convinced on him, but Leighton Baines also had a tough start to life Everton, heavily linked to Sunderland, and he went on to be brilliant.I am not putting him in that category, but you need 10-15 starts to get your confidence. Look at Obrien, Beto etc. Ryan Holroyd 16 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:50:06 Personally I dont think j hes premier league standard.If he played consistently for us, hed be ranked as the worse starting right back in the premier league. Cant defend, cant cross a ball consistently, slowSELL Ryan Holroyd 17 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:51:56 Baines turned Sunderland down for Everton Christy Ring 18 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:52:16 I reckon Moyes will make a decision during preseason, whether hes good enough for the first team. Hes been here 3 years, so its time to step up or go. His biggest problem in my opinion, is that he loses concentration, and often ball watching,, full back is a position we need to sort out. Im surprised he hasnt given Dixon a chance, he excelled against Spurs last season, in his only first team game. Colin Glassar 19 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:55:10 Sell. Ive seen enough to know hes an SPL player at best. Ian Bennett 20 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:59:34 He might of Ryan, but he was linked with Sunderland again when he couldn't get into the Everton side.His first season he played 22 EPL games. Danny O'Neill 21 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:04:31 Providing we sign a right back, it would be a sell for me.Then we would have Coleman and Dixon as backup. And obviously O'Brien if necessary with Tarkowski and Branthwaite fit. David Bromwell 22 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:06:09 As I remember, we paid a hefty sum for Nathan, even though he was not a regular in Rangers first team. At times he has looked okay to me, at least going forward, but any progress he may have made has been hampered by injuries.Hopefully Moyes can get him playing well in the first team; if not, he has been a complete waste of money and should be let go. Ryan Holroyd 23 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:08:39 He was injured, Ian. And Lescott was playing well there.Played 242 games for Everton under David Moyes. Anyway We've done all this previously. Colin Glassar 24 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:16:03 David, maybe the Dyche Slap ruined him? John Keating 25 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:19:09 I mentioned on another thread what I know about Patterson. At Rangers, he was a very attack-minded full-back. Anyone who says he can't put good cross in has never seen him.If we can just get him fit, a la Calvert-Lewin, we really have a player here.Personally, for me, I'd look at him wide right, if not more a winger. Compared to our Leeds loaner, Patterson is streets ahead. Ryan Holroyd 26 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:21:45 He played 27 times for Rangers. Awful player. Ian Wilkins 27 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:32:13 Poor acquisition that needs to move on. Several managers have given him chances and he consistently proves he is a naive defender who doesnt learn the basics. Just not sure wed get any money for him. May have to be loan with us paying part of his wages. Poor scouting. Julian Exshaw 28 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:32:15 Keep for now. Allow him time free of injuries, some good coaching and a run in the first team. Then decide. Eric Haworth 29 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:35:22 Both full back positions need a serious upgrade if we're to progress. We can debate the merits and/or deficiencies in these two all day long, but neither appears to have a basic football brain, particularly when it comes to defending, which as full backs should be high on their CV, and which you'd consider to be a fundamental requirement of a professional footballer, never mind a Premier League defender? Neither seems to recognise danger, or take charge and manage/direct the wide player tracking back to support them. Both are forever being caught out of position and on the wrong side of the man they're meant to be keeping in check, which then adds to the pressure on the centre-backs and keeper, due to them simply not doing the basics. Dave Abrahams 30 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:47:04 I've always wanted Patterson to get a decent run in the team- he has never had that, he's good going forward and can definitely put a good cross in. He has some deficiencies in defending like O'Brien has when he plays, especially at right back.Let's see how he gets on in the next few weeks. Derek Knox 31 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:48:09 This seems to be developing into a 'Marmite thread' although a bit biased, being a Scot, I like Patterson and as a few have mentioned he has never had a decent run. What I have seen of him, both for Scotland and Rangers, and fairly limited for us, his attacking flair is better than his defensive element. However, I think Moyes can help him along in that department. Rob Dolby 32 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:54:36 We don't have a choice really. He has to stay until we get a decent right back.I have seen enough of him to say his defending leaves a lot to be desired.He has been unlucky with injuries which have definitely halted any progress. I don't see a queue of clubs willing to buy him.At times last season I would have started him at right mid to see what he could do as I don't see a future for him at a prem club as a fullback. I rate Garner as a better right back. Jim Bennings 33 Posted 11/07/2025 at 16:10:46 Been here for more than three years and still doesn't look any further down the line than day one.Feel like he's the right back version of Darron Gibson, in that he'll never play more than 4 games on the spin and never play more than 10 games a season.I'd like to say keep and hope for the best but I truly believe he'll never make it with us now sadly. Mike Allison 34 Posted 11/07/2025 at 16:29:11 Sell and loan aren't options until we've signed 6-7 more players. So keep.None have us have seen him much, but he doesn't look as bad as the treatment he's received. It's a massive mark against Moyes that he didn't just play Patterson for the last 5 games or so of the season; it would have done him the world of good. Even if we didn't want to keep him it would have raised his transfer value. John Raftery 35 Posted 11/07/2025 at 16:43:18 First and foremost he needs to stay fit. He seems more comfortable as a wing back but up to now he's rarely shown he can make a difference in attacking areas. His only assist was from a low cross converted at the far post by Danjuma at Bramall Lane the season before last. Mike Gaynes 36 Posted 11/07/2025 at 16:57:33 I have no idea why every manager we've had has looked at him and our right back vacancy and said... no thanks. But they have, and there has to be a reason.Mark #14, agreed. If there's anybody who can save his career, it's Professor Moyes -- who not only turned a headless young Coleman into a star but just this year created a very solid young right back of an unused center back named Jake.Billy #6, strongly disagree on Nkounkou. He couldn't play defense. Four subsequent clubs tried him at left back and passed. He is now a reserve left midfielder at Eintracht Frankfurt, who are trying to offload him. Played less than a thousand minutes in all competitions last season, less than 400 in the Bundesliga. We missed out on nothing with him. Barry Williams 37 Posted 11/07/2025 at 17:33:09 Eric Haworth - 29I'd say the Mykolenko's strength is defending. He was almost forever present in the 4th best defence in the league last season. Stu Darlington 38 Posted 11/07/2025 at 17:40:58 Jim @33, Got to agree, Jim. Doesn't look like he's progressing to me. His tackling technique has looked iffy to me from day one, and I think that's why he ends up with so many injuries.I thought he might have been a promising find when we signed him, but I don't think it's going to happen now. I would say sell but don't think we'll have any takers, so maybe a loan spell is our only option. Robert Tressell 39 Posted 11/07/2025 at 18:58:30 Over an extended period, Patterson has failed to nail down the RB slot in a club absolutely crying out for a new RB. He just isn't very good. He needs to go.It might well be a loan because he's performed so badly that it will be hard to get any fee for him at all.Probably a return to Rangers - or to the Championship - or some mediocre team in a mediocre league overseas.No need to be sentimental. Move one. Just buy a new, quality RB please (maybe two). Brendan Fox 40 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:19:14 A lot of people believe Patterson is a busted flush which is a fair enough conclusion based on what you have seen to date. In my opinion Patterson and any player need to start being treated like a business asset of a well run and structured business.Patterson cost the club circa £16m in transfer fees alone and he still has 2 years left on his contract, just writing that off is the mistake the past leadership would have made.The current leadership need to do what they can to get a tune out of Patterson by giving him subject to fitness minutes on the pitch at either RB or RW so that he either becomes a profitable asset however unlikely that may seem at present or to increase his potential value in the market to limit the losses.The club needs to start acting like and running like a business if we are ever to get back to the top and compete for the honours we all crave. Mark Taylor 41 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:21:43 As Robert says, we need a new RB urgently. We also need a new LB if we have ambition (Myko would be a very good back up LB).That makes Patterson 3rd choice(arguably second and a half choice because we won't always have the option of O'Brien at RB), use the friendlies to find out if he is up to that. If not move on and get a proper RB reserve. Bless him, but I don't take Seamus as a serious option, he was being shown up last season and before, and it's another year and a very used clock. Maybe emergency RB but no more. Hopefully coaching beckons for him. Robert Tressell 42 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:22:54 Brendan, we aren't Sheffield Wednesday and we aren't skint any more. We don't need to jeopardise our already terrible right flank by playing Patterson in the hope he might rise in value from about £3m to £7m.We can just do what other Premier League clubs do and buy good players. We've had the worst right flank in the Premier League two seasons in a row now – it's time to buy. Brendan Fox 43 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:33:51 Robert, has Patterson ever been given an extended run in any team? I'm not saying he should be 1st choice at RB or RW but maybe if he's fit enough a run of games gives him a fair crack to see if he adds any value to the team and squad, he's still young and with the right coaching and guidance he offers options even as a back up. By all means, if the club buy a first choice RB to start ahead of Patterson, O'Brien and Coleman, then I'm all for that; I just don't think people need to write Patterson off just yet.Imagine having to play behind who Patterson has had to play behind when he's had the chances for the last 3 seasons and people are wondering why he looks poor. Get a good RW in front of him and we may see a different player if given the chance. Mike Gaynes 44 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:34:09 Correct, Robert. Folks here keep talking about the mistakes this club has made in the past... as if they are remotely relevant.They aren't.The people who made those mistakes are gone. New ownership. New management. New club. New stadium. Wealth far beyond anything the club has ever had, and the in-progress assembly of an entirely new management structure unlike anything we've seen before. What happened before isn't a pattern that needs to be broken. It's history and it's done with. People need to stop thinking it matters. It does not. Dave Abrahams 45 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:37:04 Robert (42), “We've had the worst right flank in the Premier League two seasons in a row now” Even with O'Brien, a lot of fans favourite, playing there, Robert? Colin Glassar 46 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:42:53 Only the FSW appears to have rated Patterson. Dyche didn't and it looks like Moyes doesn't…So what are we waiting for? That suddenly he discovers some hidden talent that many don't see? Ryan Holroyd 47 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:49:20 The main problem is letting go of JonJoe Kenny and spending £16M on a player with similar ability. That's the real issue imo Tony Abrahams 48 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:09:16 How many games did Patterson actually play for Everton, under Benitez, Colin? Danny O'Neill 49 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:21:27 Earlier, I said I was in the sell camp. I still am.I can see it going one of two ways.We sell and Patterson, retaining Coleman and Dixon as backup.We keep Patterson as backup alongside Coleman. If we keep him, he would need to play more, which will be difficult as back-up.Either way, we need a new right back.On Jonjoe, I really wanted him to succeed, but he just didn't have it at the top level. And I didn't just watch him for Everton.Mykolenko did well in the second half of the season. He has always been a good defender, nothing more. Maybe it was Moyes's influence, confidence and playing in a more settled back four, and towards the end of the season, he also improved going forward. Ernie Baywood 50 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:36:01 I still think his performances have been reasonable, considering how often it's happening off the bench and once in a blue moon.He still looks like a very Everton kind of right back. One fans can appreciate for his effort and bravery.Unfortunately he's suffered with injury and the simple fact that no manager has been prepared to give him experience at this level. Both have hindered him and it's unrealistic to expect that he be ready for this league without some learning experiences. I'm now coming around to the idea that he won't make it at this club and, for his own career, should be making a move for regular football. Shame. I quite like the guy. Jay Harris 51 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:43:33 He is the full back equivalent of Michael Keane, poor concentration and slow on the turn.He is more of a wingback than a fullback and is okay going forward with decent pace and good crossing ability.I am torn on this one. He might work in a 3-5-2 but never in a 4 at the back formation.Sell and recover some money before he ends his contract and goes on a free. Jeff Armstrong 52 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:45:29 Sell, if a buyer can be found. Not getting what Rangers got for him, that's for sure. Steve Shave 53 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:52:31 Robert, what do you think about the Coventry lad at right back? Sorry I've forgotten his name but looks good to me, Dutch lad. Mike Gaynes 54 Posted 11/07/2025 at 21:01:58 Tony #48, I assume you know the answer is zero.Rafa was sacked 12 days after Patterson signed. Robert Tressell 55 Posted 11/07/2025 at 21:22:44 Steve S - Van Ewijk looks okay and (like every single other RB being linked) is better than what we have – but is probably not better than Bogle (Leeds), Hulme (Sunderland) and Kyle Walker (Burnley).Across the whole of world football, we must be able to do better than that surely? Derek Powell 56 Posted 11/07/2025 at 21:40:22 Keep and give him a run of games Ryan Holroyd 57 Posted 11/07/2025 at 21:53:18 Yes, Jonjoe Kenny was not good enough for the Premier League.Same as this kid. Jeff Armstrong 58 Posted 11/07/2025 at 21:57:06 Patterson has been here and picked by at least 3 managers including caretakers, he has never been given a run of games, because he's been poor in a lot of the games he's played.He's Scottish Premiership or EFL standard, he's just not good enough for the Premier League, imo. Eric Haworth 59 Posted 11/07/2025 at 22:30:23 Barry#37 I agree that Myko is better defending than he is going forward, but the bar is set pretty low as far as his all round game is concerned. I also agree with Danny#49 that his all round game improved towards the end of last season, but like Ive already said, the bars been set pretty low. All Im saying, is if we have ambitions towards the top end of the table, does anyone seriously think that Myko & Nathan are good enough? Committed & wholehearted they may be, but good enough to get us into Europe & perform on that stage, I dont think so, and that surely has to be our ambition? Tony Abrahams 60 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:04:38 And I don't think for one minute that Benitez was behind the deals to sign Patterson, Mykolenko and the kid from Villa, who never played, Mike.When I think about the last few years, it absolutely 100% amazes me that Everton are still a Premier League football club, such was the disgraceful and unprofessional way we were being run.A ready-made first-team coach for so many new managers is simply incomprehensible, and that's before you consider people like Brands were just going along and taking the money, until an irate supporter made him unconsciously take his guard down.The board also showed their true colours before they left, and luckily for us, 777 Partners were complete charlatans; otherwise, we would have been truly fucked by the end of the worst era in our entire history.Hopefully the good times are coming, because we have seen more bad than most, and somehow survived sometimes through the sheer will of our wonderful crowd.We have been a crowd that have taken a lot of stick, when we haven't at times been able to control our exasperation – but how many consider it's because of the huge emotional investment so many Evertonians have got in our football club? Jack Convery 61 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:06:52 Palace demoted - Forest upgraded.Seeing as this has a bearing on EFC going forward - can we have a summary of why Palace have been kicked out of the UEFA League and downgraded to the Conference League. UEFA having done this because of Textor owning shares in both. Cheers J. Paul Kossoff 62 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:07:39 Get rid. If he has been seen as not good enough by four managers, means he should have been gone already.Bring in even a half decent fullback,Walker Peters, free signing has to be a massive upgrade on Patterson. If we rely on anyone from the reserves or Patterson, then we are in for it again this season.We are already scraping the barrel with Coleman and Keane signing, I wouldn't be surprised if Harrison comes back. One more thing, off topic. Why are the writers putting up pictures of players that are no longer here? Young, Decoure and Harrison recently, I know the squad is small but surely we can put up better choices than them. Would-be nice to have photos of players through the history of Everton, Dean, Ball, Collins, Latchford etc. Mike Gaynes 63 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:16:03 Eric #60, I think Mykolenko is one of the best purely defensive LBs in the league (notwithstanding his struggles last fall). He makes few mistakes and, in strong opposition to your opinion, I think he is near-flawless positionally and recognizes danger very quickly. Ask Salah how hard it is to get out of his pocket. So at this point, I think we need cover for him -- which I'm certain we will get -- but not a replacement. Of course we will eventually need somebody better to challenge for Europe, somebody who can contribute in attack. But with our tiny squad we're not close to that level yet. For now, Myko is just fine, and we have much more urgent priorities. Colin Glassar 64 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:27:50 The FSW signed off on the acquisitions of Patterson, Mykolenko and others. If he didn't play Patterson, it was probably because he realised he wasn't good.While we're on the theme of giving no-hopers a run of games to prove how useless they are, why not bring back Niasse, Tosun, Rondon, Alli, Vinagre, Maupay etc…,? Give them all 30 to 40 games each to prove themselves. Some people never learn. Ryan Holroyd 65 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:37:19 Jack 62According to Steve Parish, Textor either had to sell his Palace shares or put the Palace shares into a blind trust.He missed the deadline to do that. Ryan Holroyd 66 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:43:31 I was told a few years ago that Benitez had nothing to do with the signing of Patterson or Mykolenko. It was Brands and particularly Kenwright who signed those deals off. But who really knows??? Paul Kossoff 67 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:52:38 "no longer hear?" Jesus a I can't be that clever when it can't work out the obvious word! Here here they shout!😁 Barry Williams 68 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:53:37 Eric Haworth - 60 Agreed about Mykolenko's all round game needs improving, but given the tactics of Dyche - with, what I perceived as his reluctance to let his full backs overlap (correct me if I am wrong folks), I thought under Moyes his all round game had improved, he was getting forward more, overlapping and putting in some decent crosses and having a go at shooting too.That said, I like the old style view that a defender's first priority is to .... defend; maybe a wee bit old fashioned these days. But too many forwards defend and too many defenders attack in the modern game unproportionate to their skill levels.That said - we once upon a time had Mr. Mountfield!As for Patterson, he could improve under Moyes and certainly has the skill set to play on the right of midfield. Craig Scott 69 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:55:05 Mike @ 44. Your post made me smile. I get your point but re hiring a previous manager, who most at the time were happy to see move on, is about the most significant recourse to the past as you could get. Weve got our “dour Davey” back with his familiar style and approach which ironically most appear to be happy about. If that isnt a throwback to the past, for better or for worse, what is?New ownership, new structure, new money but crucially (and very relevantly) the same manager from the past! Si Cooper 70 Posted 11/07/2025 at 23:58:45 It's difficult to judge whether he has been hampered by poor handling wrecking his confidence or whether he just doesn't have the X factor to turn some fair physicality and ability into a cohesive functional whole.We need a decision this transfer window, based on the current manager's honest assessment of the player, to stick or twist. At the moment we don't have a proper, first choice right-back and that should be a clear objective.Personally, I'd be surprised if Nathan Patterson was the next incumbent and if he is I hope it's because he has stepped-up and not because our plans for recruiting in that position all came to naught. Christine Foster 71 Posted 11/07/2025 at 00:07:18 Palace are very unfortunate to be in the position they are, you can almost imagine their owners had no expectation of beating Man City in the FA Cup final, and "missed" the cut off date for selling or putting their shares into a blind trust ( what owner wants to do that? Indeed the rules are clearly constructed to make clear that a multi club ownership model (such as TFG) cannot have more than one club competing in the same competition. This is a very real / possible scenario we could find ourselves in within a year or two. Roma are almost perennial qualifiers of European competitions and I just cannot see under any circumstances, that we would be given the nod rather than them. The fans outcry would be very damaging to a club and hugely of TFG.Short of acknowledgement of the probability and stating well in advance who gets priority, I don't know how this circle can be squared, as Steve Parish is finding out. Chris Keher 72 Posted 12/07/2025 at 00:29:21 In the 22/23 season Lampard started him at RB and he looked good. I remember thinking that he was arguably the 2nd best player in the team during that period (behind Iwobi) and when he got injured that was when the wheels really started to come off.Lampard, who trusted him and was developing him was gone before he recovered and then Dyche never gave him a chance.Dyche brought in Young for the 23/24 season and played him every game no matter how badly he played. I never understood that.Personally I'd like to see him at least trusted as our 2nd choice RB. Steve Brown 73 Posted 12/07/2025 at 02:12:44 I wonder what Nathan thinks about his own situation?He must surely think he needs a change as the last 3 years have not gone well for him here. Mark Yeomans 74 Posted 12/07/2025 at 06:35:19 If my opinion on this is worth anything… I really do believe he will stay, won't be loaned or sold. I'm just surmising here, but an inkling Moyes will see O'Brien as our first-choice right-back for this season.He's worked wonders by trusting Jake there, he wasn't and isn't going to replace Tarkowski just yet at centre-back alongside Jarrad. But in the future, he will.So, if Moyes does buy a right-back, that's O'Brien back on the bench, and I think Moyes sees that as unfair, and also unhelpful to O'Brien, and his long term morale when he has played so well. This way, O'Brien stays in the team and keeps up his development and experience. Patterson will be kept as back up in my eyes.(ps: I don't rate Patterson at all btw. I also think he maybe has an annoying character – there were vox pops with players and many stated he would be worst colleague to room with. Loud etc. Plus Dyche slapped him on tour, perhaps all indicative of him being irritating! 🤣) Danny O'Neill 75 Posted 12/07/2025 at 07:40:30 I think it's harsh Christine, over an administrative oversight.For those interested, here's how the Manchester Clubs got around it with Girona and Nice respectively. It's not that long a read and from the UEFA website.LinkAs for Patterson, that's a good point Steve. What the player wants could play a part in any decision. We may find it a challenge to find a buyer if we move him on given his injury record.I don't think he is as bad as some make out. Not great, but not terrible and better going forward as many have observed. Sam Hoare 76 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:10:32 Hes better going forward than defensively and would probably make a decent wing back for someone but not a Moyes player I dont think.Still young so maybe worth loaning as a good season in the championship could double his value right now. Joe McMahon 77 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:52:47 I thought he was good going forward, and his legs a lot younger than Seamus. For me loan but with option to recall. Mark Murphy 78 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:58:41 I too think hes decent going forward. I reckon hes worth keeping and could develop as a decent overlapping full back or wing back.Dont know why, but Im rooting for him. Lester Yip 79 Posted 12/07/2025 at 09:46:50 We should sell when he's still have some value. Mihir Ambardekar 80 Posted 12/07/2025 at 10:04:09 Sell. He has been overlooked by all managers who have been here. He is not that great and is injury prone. We need to sell him and if lucky we might get upto 5 million. Reinvest to get a quality and experienced RB. Peter Moore 81 Posted 12/07/2025 at 10:05:29 I bet Seamus Coleman has been helping Nathan Patterson greatly.Moyes didn't play Seamus to start with, preferring Tony Hibbert of course.Seamus was excellent specially in the attacking side, when on loan at Blackpool wasn't he. It has surprised me, whenever Patterson has played, he seems not to 'smell danger' at all and neglects the defensive side, preferring to be on the front foot ready to attack.Dyche persisted with him at the start of Dyche's first full season. The team was playing well but not scoring and seemingly kept losing to a late goal caused by a gaping hole in the right back berth.That was years ago now. Not sure he has had a proper run of games since. If he is fit and with a full pre season, his extra maturity and the guidance of Moyes and Coleman will hopefully see him blossom into the right back that he can be.Could luck Nathan! Mike Gaynes 82 Posted 12/07/2025 at 10:11:16 Craig at 70, always happy to entertain you!I was supporting Robert‘s rebuttal to the allegation that we were “Skint“ when its clear that we are not, and my point wasthat everything businesswise has changed at the club that it would be possible to change. The manager has virtually nothing to do with our business situation or financial capabilities to buy players. Lee Courtliff 83 Posted 12/07/2025 at 10:41:47 I don't understand this feeling that Nathan is some sort of 'massive liability' defensively, at all. We've seen some shockers over the last couple of years that have actually cost us games, like the Seamus og away at Bournemouth. And the ridiculousness of Ashley Young picking up 2 yellow cards in the FIRST half at Anfield. Two of the most experienced players in the League making schoolboy errors.Now, I know Patterson has his deficiencies and has been poor on occasion, but he's also played in games we've won and kept clean sheets.Dyche gave him a run in the team from October to December in '23, and Nathan played well in victories against West Ham and Burnley away, he came on after 41 minutes against Chelsea in a game we went on to win 2-0! He also came off the bench late on against Newcastle and the got the assist for our 3rd goal (scored by Beto).It looked like he was on his way but after a poor performance (by everyone) away at Wolves, it appeared Dyche lost faith in him and he barely featured again for the rest of the season. He's certainly nowhere near as bad as some make out, and I hope he gets an opportunity under Moyes this coming season. An experienced manager like Moyes should surely be able to correct him on his positional sense. I wish him well, for some strange reason I've got a bit of a soft spot for him. Alan J Thompson 84 Posted 12/07/2025 at 11:34:14 It is of course a matter for the Manager but I think part of the problem might be the role he has been told to play.Under Dyche he seemed to be out of position against a touchline hugging winger as it seemed both full backs were told to tuck in nearer the central defender. As for the effectiveness of his crossing when he has played matters little as we rarely had many if any in the opposition box, something that may change with Barry, Beto and better organization.For me, give the lad more of a chance and perhaps, within reason, a role more suited to his style. Ernie Baywood 85 Posted 12/07/2025 at 14:13:49 Lee #84 - another with a soft spot for him here. He was a kid when he signed. A 21 year old from, with respect, a weak league. I've seen him make mistakes but that's what young players do when they haven't played at this level before. And it's certainly what they do when they're coming off the bench or making rare appearances. It's also what his right back competition was doing.Whatever anyone can say about Patterson's ability, I think the majority would agree that we haven't seen his best, nor really given him a chance to produce his best. He needed a manager with at least a medium term view. And he got a manager with no interesting in improving anyone.That's unfortunate. Moyes at least did take a longer term view... He just opted for Jake over Nathan which is hard to argue with. Dave Abrahams 86 Posted 12/07/2025 at 14:27:39 Whats there to lose if he does well in the pre season games? Moyes has to play him next week because there is hardly any players to complete a team, Nathan might be better playing more forward he is decent with the ball, good control, has dribbling ability and can put a good centre in, I saw quite a few of them go across the six yard box but didnt see anyone anticipating those crosses, defensively he could have done better to join a few playing in that position since Nathan has been here. Danny O'Neill 87 Posted 12/07/2025 at 14:34:37 Some very balanced views from Lee, Alan and Ernie.Whether he fits into the manager's plans remains to be seen, and despite the various opinions, don't think we should be crucifying a player who has come to a far more competitive league at a young age in a club in turmoil during which time he has been blighted by successive injuries. Martin Farrington 88 Posted 12/07/2025 at 16:02:44 We have a squad of 19 players as of this second. This includes:-ColemanKeanePlayers who have little to no PL experience:-ChermitiCharley TimBarryHarrisonTyrerWe appear to be making no inroads to adding the vast numbers we needed to replace the first team squad of 9 leavers I don't count Charly as a replacement because he was already here in the numbers.So we have signed 1Patterson, imo, isn't very good.Any half decent winger can skip past him. He is frequently out of position. His reading of the game is limited. His passing ability is low.Tackling is ok if he isn't caught out as above.Maybe Moyes can do something which improves him. Due to our chronic shortage of pl players, lets face it the real squad number is 17 (excl Tyrer and Harrison) or if you exclude Coleman due to injury likelihood, 16 or those who have hardly any time under their belt 13 (excluding Charly)Patterson would ideally go out on loan with Tim and Chim. But we sods law dictating we are bound to get a draw full of injuries and a ridiculous red card or two.I don't envy the crap that the new regime had to deal with which was left by the others. A failure to buy more players last January (when money was there) has been a killer.Everton have to get some bodies in and NOW !!!Nathan is not going to feature much, its clear from last season.Vit should be an understudy as stated above.Our CM'S are not strong enough nor skillful enough.Why arent we getting players in ???Answers on an advertising poster sized envelope to :-TFG WTF Mike Gaynes 89 Posted 12/07/2025 at 16:33:43 First time I've seen a player with 57 PL games described as having "little or no experience"... but that aside, Martin, the process takes time. Especially when we're clearly not looking for "bodies" to fill the bench but real quality players, whom we must compete for because they are wanted by other clubs, and who have no reason to hurry their signings until they fully explore their options. The window is open for seven more weeks. Put that on your envelope. Ryan Holroyd 90 Posted 12/07/2025 at 16:55:54 If we havent got players in (at least two) by the time we go to America then I willstart to worry abit. I think theres two weeks till we go to America. I expect the market to pick up in the next two weeks. Need some dominos to start falling Jay Harris 91 Posted 12/07/2025 at 16:56:22 As I said earlier Nathan would make a rwb position ok with his foraging runs and ability to shoot and put a decent cross in.However as a full back he is a liability on the scale of Michael Keane with lapses of concentration and slow on the turn.Coaching may improve that a little but you cannot make a championship level player into a top Premier league level player as 3 or 4 managers have concluded. Jonathan Oppenheimer 92 Posted 12/07/2025 at 17:37:57 I'm in the camp of not really knowing what we've got with Patterson, because we haven't seen him play enough consistent games while healthy.My concern with getting him that game time is if Tarkowski and Branthwaite are healthy (and we don't sign a new right back, which we clearly want to do given interest in Tete), it will be hard to make the argument that he deserves to play over O'Brien. Obviously Jake is our CB of the future, but for now, I want to find a place for him on the pitch, but maybe that means playing 3 center backs with wing backs, which might suit Patterson better anyway.I, too, have a soft spot for Patterson. Not sure exactly why, but probably some combination of coming here young, playing for a shitshow of a club, getting injured a bunch, and not being allowed to play through mistakes and bad performances. But maybe it's just wishful thinking that he's better than he actually is. Martin Farrington 93 Posted 12/07/2025 at 19:04:57 Mike @90 Who are you talking about? I listed the players with little to no Premier League experience. Patterson is not one of them.The process always seems to come as a shock to Everton.9 out didn't. Unlike other clubs we haven't lined others up likely to come.Do you seriously believe that 8 more (at least) will be in?Start throwing those names so that I can decorate my envelope.NORWICH xx Grant Rorrison 94 Posted 12/07/2025 at 19:28:21 You missed out shoot. Dave Abrahams 95 Posted 12/07/2025 at 21:12:42 Martin (93) Martin I think Mike might be referring to Harrison, I think you meant Harrison Armstrong and Mike maybe thought you meant Jack Harrison. Mike Gaynes 96 Posted 12/07/2025 at 21:22:19 Martin, I was referring to Charly. 57 games.And I was referencing the fact that we have no idea who is lined up to come. But I do believe that your expectation that a brand-new recruitment team would already have replacements lined up for the departed is wildly overoptimistic, to the point of unreasonability. It's simply not possible to find, recruit, negotiate with and finally sign that many players this fast. This isn't a fantasy league team. Roberto Birquet 97 Posted 13/07/2025 at 02:03:12 A sale would not be a big financial loss. The so-called £16 mln fee was almost half made up of bonuses that have evidently not been triggered. The fee was more like £10m and due to amortization would only be worth some £4 mln now.Either loan out to a Championship club or sell for at least £4mln Steve Shave 98 Posted 13/07/2025 at 07:40:15 Roberto, the sticking point might be wages. We are probably paying him too much for him to go back to Scotland or drop to the championship. Dave Abrahams 99 Posted 13/07/2025 at 08:50:34 Mike (96) Mike you did say @(89) that Alcaraz had played 57 premier league games, I think he has played 34 premier league games and you say @(96) he has played 57 games leaving PL out. Rob Dolby 100 Posted 13/07/2025 at 08:51:15 Mike 96,We have brought in a whole new recruitment structure when arguably we didn't need to.If the final decision rests with Moyes we all know he dithers.The new recruitment team are experienced I would be amazed if they hadn't suggested a dozen players that are within our grasp.There are lots of free transfers out there. Walker Peters would walk onto our team at full back. Instead we went for the injury prone tete who jibbed us anyway. Don't be surprised if any of the loan players we released come back.Obrien will start the season as our right back. The squad will be threadbare and we will be scrambling around in the winter transfer market for players. It's the Everton way. Danny O'Neill 101 Posted 13/07/2025 at 09:19:03 The way it was explained at the time Rob @100, the CEO wanted a flatter organisation.My interpretation of that would be the sit as a panel, of with the manager will be part of, to discuss and collectively agree on targets to go after. I don't think any one individual will have a final say. It will be decided by committee.I know it's important to some, but I personally don't get to bothered by the Premier League experience thing.There are plenty of players who hadn't played in the Premier League until we signed them. Jake O'Brien (I don't believe he played for Palace), Jarrad Brathwaite and Vitali Mykolenko.Former players like Duncan Ferguson and Time Cahill.Other clubs; Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry and even a couple across the park.There will be more, just as there will be examples of those who struggled to adapt, be that the culture, the club and surroundings and the difference in the game. Colin Glassar 102 Posted 13/07/2025 at 09:29:57 Its hot. Theres no footy to watch (I will not watch that infantino abomination). Theres not even any transfer rumours worth talking about. Oh well, its the wifes birthday so Id better get her breakfast going. Cmon lads, give us something to get excited about. Paul Hewitt 103 Posted 13/07/2025 at 09:58:15 Colin. Salford v Castleford is on at 3. Barry Williams 104 Posted 13/07/2025 at 10:00:14 Rob Dolby - 100If Moyes 'dithers' and it gets us the equivalent of another Martyn, Howard, Coleman, Baines, Oviedo, Lescott, Jagielka, Yobo, Distin, Heitenger, Stubbs, Neville, Carsley, Graveson, Cahill, Fellaini, Arteta, Pienaar, Mirallas, Naismith, Yakubu, Saha, etc. then long may it continue - Compare that to 2016 and onwards - the money wasted on big contracts for players and managers that dragged Everton into the relegation zone a number of times - please - dither away! Or is it due diligence?Oh, and so far the dithering - if the transfer were actually down to Moyes have gotten Everton both Alcaraz and Barry - at, if the reports are to be believed, a cheaper rate than the release clauses/desired selling price. Eric Myles 105 Posted 13/07/2025 at 10:12:35 Colin #102, I think the most exciting thing to discuss is, what's for breakfast?BTW, when you say it's hot what's the temperature there? It's 33C here at16:16. Feels like 42C according to the forecast but that's coprolite, it's just 'cos of humidity. Rob Halligan 106 Posted 13/07/2025 at 11:07:00 Paul # 103……..Colin said “Something to get excited about” Paul Tran 107 Posted 13/07/2025 at 11:31:23 Every club will have a countless number of players earmarked. It's about persuading them to come here rather than the competition, then it's about doing the deal with the selling club and player. And doing that within our governance measures.Patterson will be with us till his contract runs out. Can't see him getting a better offer. Ryan Holroyd 108 Posted 13/07/2025 at 11:44:12 Due Diligence MoyesHopefully well see movement this week Tony Abrahams 109 Posted 13/07/2025 at 11:47:38 Hopefully the players that Barry, mentioned who won the sum total of absolutely zero, whilst playing in the royal blue jersey, might be able to help you get excited Colin! Steve Cotton 110 Posted 13/07/2025 at 12:04:48 Anyone care to guess how many players will come in after the season has actually started.. those coming in on deadline day will hit the ground 4/5 games in with no training or familiarity with the regular guys..Any team wanting to get off to a good start will have this in place by vendor July.. otherwise it's a catch up and race for top half of table scenario.. make a statement blues...get good players in key positions in the next 2 weeks Peter Mitchell 111 Posted 13/07/2025 at 12:18:35 For those of you complaining about there being no footie to watch, there is plenty of high quality football on and free to view (at least in the UK) - the Women's Euros! Go on, give it a try - you might enjoy it! Barry Williams 112 Posted 13/07/2025 at 12:24:30 Tony Abrahams - 109 They at least competed - like the current lot under Moyes have.I am no Moyes fanboy - and often criticised his overly cautious approach on the pitch in his fist incarnation as Everton manager - and the dumbing down of expectations. Other than flashes under Martinez and Ancelotti and all the wasted money since 2016 - a bit of 'dithering' as it is called - might not have gone amiss and we might not have been staring relegation in the face season after season. I watched the great teams of the 80s at the time, so I never bought into the plucky little Everton tag. That said - criticising Moyes' record and effectiveness in the transfer market is something I will never understand. Kevin Molloy 113 Posted 13/07/2025 at 12:55:48 We've got ten spots to fill, so far we've done two and it's cost £40m. We've got limited funds thanks to PSR so we've got to drive hard bargains, and we can only do that at the end of the window. if we try and cut these deals now we run the risk of paying £5-10m more than if we'd left it til the end of the window. It's great to get them in early but we know how the transfer market works, it's only the teams who are flush who can do that. Danny O'Neill 114 Posted 13/07/2025 at 13:03:20 Peter @111, I've given it a go and watched Sweden v Germany yesterday evening. I've watched a few of them.My observations are that the women's game has improved over the course of the past several years, maybe longer. Admittedly, I've only watched it intermittently.I know football in general is a game of mistakes, but the women's is particularly littered with them, which in a way, makes it entertaining and unpredictable. And the goalkeeping is by and large not very good.Barry, I'm well documented on Moyes. Disappointed when he came back, but he turned us around.On relegation, we've had it since the 90s. Three last day escapes since 93-94. You could argue 4 if we count the Palace match, because the prospect of going to Arsenal to needing a win would not have been easy. That's an understatement by the way.We were heading that way again last season, until Moyes turned us around. In hindsight, I should have listened to my son, who insisted the eventually bottom 3 would go down. Regardless, change was needed, even if I didn't agree with the choice at the time. But again, in hindsight, probably the right choice for at the time.It's why I gave up completely blaming managers a while back now. The problems at the club have been way above any manager's pay grade. They can only be judged on performance, competitiveness and success on the pitch. Ryan Holroyd 115 Posted 13/07/2025 at 13:17:18 People have unrealistic expectations of Everton. Two titles in 40 years tells us that. Plus 2 fa cups. Players will have many options before Everton Peter Mitchell 116 Posted 13/07/2025 at 13:22:42 Danny - I would agree with most of your analysis on the Women's game. I do think that the standard across the board has improved hugely since the last Euros and that it is much more competitive this time around. Some of the football has been really good - you should check out Spain and some of the goals they have scored. Really high quality. Eric Myles 117 Posted 13/07/2025 at 13:30:53 Kevin #113, that's why I've said on another thread that league placings should be our priority as that's where the money is.Sure a FA or League Cup is a nice keepsake and bragging rights for a week until the rest of the world has forgotten about it, but our path to the CL is through earning the money to buy the quality of players for us to compete in it. Barry Williams 118 Posted 13/07/2025 at 14:11:24 Danny O'Neill - 114However you look at it, once Moyes left - we were much worse generally - despite having much more money.I was initially ambivalent about Moyes coming back - given the time of the season it was, what was at stake and the available options, I warmed to it. I think many fans, and I am happy to be proven wrong and maybe I have the same traits, aren't willing to let go of preconceived ideas and this can cloud what is actually going on. I guess most aspects of life are like this!As for the women's game - I haven't watched much of it to be honest, but there seems to be less histrionics, less cheating, more honesty and less 'girliness' about it, especially when it comes to hairdos - and this is coming from a man with long hair that is sometimes put in a man bun! Seeing as I lived in Japan for a number of years I pass it off as sumo-style hair! Alan McGuffog 119 Posted 13/07/2025 at 14:19:07 Eric...coprolites are gobshites Danny O'Neill 120 Posted 13/07/2025 at 14:34:25 I think we think alike on Moyes since his return Barry. The supporters certainly do at the match. Yes, there has been the odd flashback, but mostly we improved.Here's hoping he is given the players needed and opportunity to have a real go at it next season and drop his cautious tag. I won't use the D word.We certainly saw glimpses that he was willing to be more adventurous.Looking forward to seeing your man bun. I'm still mostly short back and sides. A lot of my mates have grown outrageous beards since leaving the Army. I don't mind not having to shave every day, and let it go for a few days, but I can't go full beard.I'll watch England v Wales later and keep an eye on the Holland v France match.Then we've got Chelsea v PSG, all on at the same time. Eric Myles 121 Posted 13/07/2025 at 14:56:31 Man buns? I'm just trying to go all Francis Rossi as the missus didn't appreciate my Sinead O'Connor look. Mark Murphy 122 Posted 13/07/2025 at 16:57:18 Francis Rossi you say?A ponytail then?Brave! Barry Williams 123 Posted 13/07/2025 at 18:07:26 Danny O'Neill - 120Agreed with the more adventurous hope - I think the older Moyes delegates more and seems to actually trust his players more than in his previous incarnation as Everton manager.Trust me - my manbun is nothing to behold sir. I only have one when training and try not to go out in public with it - though sometimes I do forget. I did used to have a complete shaven look, my hair grew back in lockdown, and I just let it grow and grow until it was as long as it was in my early to mid-20s. People who'd known me for 20 years with my skinhead look thought I'd had a hair transplant! Andy Crooks 124 Posted 13/07/2025 at 18:13:21 Ryan @90, I think you are right about that. Also, although I am as about impatient as it gets, I'm not too concerned about things. One previous signing changed my attitude; I was complaining about how slow we were in getting Ramirez signed up. I knew nothing about him but was convinced that we HAD to sign a striker and it HAD to be him. Well, that turned out to be a proper gem.Diligence or dithering, same sensible thing. Tony Abrahams 125 Posted 13/07/2025 at 21:04:24 Eric@117, I understand your viewpoint mate, but I think you have forgotten what being a true match going supporter is all about, by having those views in my opinion, mate.Any Evertonian, aged 30 years, or under has never witnessed Everton, win a cup, and whether you play for the team or support the football team, then nothing beats running around Wembley with the cup.Run before we can walk, and give the people who love the club the most, an occasion they will never forgot……PLEASE🤞! Tony Abrahams 126 Posted 13/07/2025 at 21:19:45 Thats a good assessment of the womans game, imo Barry, and I cant argue with you when you say Moyes, made us competitive either.If he dithered in the transfer market it might have been because he never really got that much money to spend, but when it came to being really competitive, he was a total failure imo Barry.We all have different opinions, and its already been done to death, but if Moyes is going to succeed, then more than anything else, I believe its his overall mindset that has got to change the most.Hopefully this is now the case because although I dont think hes ever been a bad manager, I think hes been a very lucky manager, except when it comes to that saying, about fortune favouring the brave. Barry Williams 127 Posted 14/07/2025 at 09:22:58 Tony Abrahams- 126 I actually agree with you Tony. I always thought Moyes did a good job under the circumstances, but when we had that plucky Everton guns to a knife fight mentality - it would drive me mad. If you were a player at Everton, and we did have some good ones, what sort of message does it send!? Anyways, thus far - he has exceeded expectations. Dave Abrahams 128 Posted 14/07/2025 at 09:51:50 Barry (123) and (127) Thats what Im, and I think a few more fans,are waiting for Barry to see if a leopard can change its spots, some good results after he came in to go along with some of his old faults so Im still on the fence but agree it will be a few seasons before we are able to compete fully with the top teams but think we should have a go, at least, in the FA cup and league cup. Liam Mogan 129 Posted 14/07/2025 at 10:34:06 Winning a trophy is what it's all about. Give me a cup over a top 6 finish anyday.You've got to believe you can though and I think thats where Moyes failed last time. Last night Chelsea beat PSG because they believed they could and had a tactical plan. It worked and no one saw it coming. Who would have thought to attack the PSG left side with Mendes arguably the best LB in the world? The Chelsea manager did though - this is the type of thinking that wins you trophies and it's not something that Moyes, for all his strong points, has ever demonstrated. Barry Williams 130 Posted 14/07/2025 at 13:59:58 Dave Abrahams - 128I generally like Moyes as a manager and I like his honesty - but yes, no more self-imposed glass ceilings please! Nick Armitage 131 Posted 14/07/2025 at 18:07:07 Sell him. Add Your Comments In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site. » Log in now Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site. How to get rid of these ads and support TW © ToffeeWeb