Championship Playoff Final

I fancy Sunderland to sneak it.

There is some speculation emerging about the increasing American ownership of Premier League teams, and how this might affect things in the future. Sheffield United would add another if they win today, and I expect them to come good.

Premier League football has become more of a commercial product since Sky appeared, and maybe this is part of the appeal for USA ownership, which appears to be done pretty well.

I feel very "British" in my ways, and I suspect many fans feel strongly about identity, and history... but perhaps this thought is for another thread another time... Sheffield to win 2-1.

I want Sunderland to win for some unfathomable reason. Maybe it's their stadium (brilliant but shit, copycat name) which is Premier League standard.

Twice I've been on the receiving end of a good thumping by Mackem hooligans (once at Roker Park and the other at Goodison) but I somehow have a soft spot for them.

If they don't come up, I hope we go for Bellingham and Rigg. Two excellent prospects by all accounts.

I don't “do” second teams but, if I did, I would choose Sunderland. Always liked them – no idea why – perhaps cos they're not Newcastle.

And by the way – that “Scouse Mackem” jibe – do the Skunks not know that Sunderland have won more league titles than them?

Mackems for me too.

Sunderland for me too. Probably no other reason than because of the Pickford link.

Be great if Sunderland do win, and Pickford has an absolute blinder tomorrow and keeps a clean sheet. That will really wind the Skunk Maggots up no end!!

I'd like Sunderland to win for old time's sake — always liked them since I was young with terrific supporters who knew the score.

The are more discerning than the Geordies, a bit like Everton fans — we know when we have a poor squad and don't pretend otherwise, while the Newcastle fans would follow eleven monkeys as long as they played in black and white shirts.

Nothing against Sheffield Utd fans or club either, they were also in the First Division when I was younger so I hope it is a good game and may the best team win — as we used to say in our old-fashioned way!

Got a good mate who is a Blade. Says most of them don't even want to go up.

Their experiences of getting beat every week in the Premier League has disillusioned them.

Dave @7. I too will be looking out for Sunderland today.

I have a few close friends who are Sunderland supporters. They've always reminded me of us in some ways.

I also have a couple of mates who are Blades supporters. Years ago, we went to a pre-season Sheffield United v Everton friendly that was arranged to mark the opening of their new stand when Howard Kendall had just re-joined us for the 3rd time, leaving Sheffield United for his true football love. I was sat amongst the Sheffield supporters and it was all good natured.

To echo your comment, I hope the best team on the day wins. On my morning run to the supermarket at 8 am after walking the dog, there were a lot of Sunderland supporters carrying 24-packs of lager out of Sainbury's. Good luck to them. it's going to be a long day!!

I like Sunderland but with Tom Davies at Sheffield Utd, it sways me to them.

We do owe Sheffield Utd one for taking Tom Davies off our hands!

Wonder why it's a 15:01 kick-off?

Sunderland's Championship play-off final at Wembley this weekend will kick-off at 3:01 pm, rather than the usual 3pm, to highlight the fact that 'Every Minute Matters'.

This campaign aims to inspire supporters to learn CPR, equipping them with vital skills that could save someone's life.

Thanks Ian...just done CPR stuff myself after my little grandson needed it. Really worthwhile!

Good to see Andy Hinchcliffe doing a nice job as part of Sky's presentation team.

I sincerely hope Sunderland win and go up.

I have no interest in watching Sheffield Utd. Sunderland appear to be a much less annoying version of your Northeast folk when compared to Newcastle fans.

Good start, very atmospheric...

Tom Davies not even good enough to start. I had such high hopes for him.

I watched 2 seasons of, Sunderland till I die, and they are real, proper fans that lot.

No radio commentary?

Oh... TalkSport. Yuek.

Colin, it'll be interesting to see whether he or Tom Cannon makes it into the game.

Davies's time at Blades has been a catastrophe. Three major injuries and some mental health issues as well.

That is a brilliant goal. Spectacular.

Didn't realize he's Kevin Campbell's son.

Great breakaway, Mike, very good on the eye

We all wanted Tom Davies to succeed at Everton. I was as critical as anyone of him. Nothing personal, just some of his performances.

Whatever has gone wrong, he might not be top drawer, but only 26, he is a talented footballer with a career ahead of him. I hope he sorts it out.

An Evertonian and his uncle, Alan Whittle played over 70 games for Everton. There is really nice footage of him sat on the roof of the boxes below the Main Stand talking to supporters after the Crystal Palace match.

If you read ToffeeWeb, Tom, best wishes and all the best.

Sad to say he'll never make it as a Premier League player, Mike.

Too short, weak and slow.

What a goal that was. Wow.

Boo, but wow.

Danny,

I met him years ago. He couldn't have been a nicer young man. And he scored 32 seconds into my first game at Goodison.

But I always considered him a mediocre player with a penchant for crucial mistakes.

Never offside. If they call this back it's just wrong.

He didn't impede him. Keeper saw it all the way.

Absolutely terrible call. Simply awful. In the line of sight my ass.

Terrible call.

Hard call that.

VAR killed the game. Now you can't be near the goalkeeper?

Absolute shite this VAR crap.

The league wants a competitive game, not a 0-2 at half game.

That has to be what motivated that call.

I swear to God above English football gets VAR so wrong so often. It's shocking.

Colin, stop being size-ist.

He's about the same height as Ndiaye and taller than Leon Osman, who used to have similar accusations thrown at him. Messi was only 5ft-7in. You don't have to be big or fast. Strong - yes.

But I know what you mean. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have it in his locker to make it at the top. I wonder if it would have been different in a different Everton environment. We'll never know.

I thought he was in the keeper's line of sight, Jamie.

Really, Mike??? He's off to the left of the keeper's sight, circling back to an onside position and wasn't even in front of the keeper??

He didn't even impede a move to the keeper's left when the shot was taken?

I dunno m'man...

Glad you cleared that up, Danny.

Sheer ability and awareness makes up for physicality. Sadly, Tom was lacking in that dept.

In the old days, my flag would have been up, Jamie.

The offside rules are more liberal now and there's VAR, but that was my gut reaction.

Fair nuff. What do the natives say? It's all about opinions.

On this showing, I’d take Rigg and Bellingham jr. The potential is there for all to see.

Mike #21,

I knew he had major injuries, sad to hear he had mental issues. It was nice to see him out on the pitch last Sunday at Goodison, still a Blue at heart.

Rigg is 17. Amazing.

He hasn't done anything, Mike.

But you can see the balance and football brain is there to be a top player.

Bellingham exudes class.

Deffo offside that second goal.

Agreed on both, Colin.

I reckon we as fans are always late to the party with these players.

I remember seeing a young Gascoigne play at Goodison and thinking 'My God, Everton need to sign that lad, quick before anyone else spots him'.

But the managers all know all the players from years earlier. Wasn't Sir Alex sniffing around Joe Cole when he was 10 or something ridiculous?

I think this Keifer Moore, striker for Sheffield Utd, is a really good player.

I'd swap him for Beto without hesitation.

6 goals this season, Jamie.

Maybe we should look at this Tom Cannon fella. He's got 10.

Really??? That's it? He looks a beast and his service in the first half with his outside right was sublime.

I'm shocked he only bagged 6.

Moore plays like Frankenstein’s monster. No thanks.

I've seen him for 45+ minutes.

I'll defer to Gaynes and Glassar on Señor Moore.

Whoever wins today will go straight down again next season.

Jamie;

Moore is 33 in August.

No opinion on him, Jamie, just reading the stats.

But he did just let a perfect pass roll under his foot.

He's 33? Looks 23. Good genes.

Clearly I've gotten this one wrong.

Keifer is valued in the Wales set-up.

He has a physical presence, but falls short too much for me.

Linesman flags for a foul on a Sunderland player, and Kavanagh waves it away.

Never seen that before.

Game on……..1-1.

Wow, all square.

Pure quality on that finish.

Get in!

My 6-year-old grandson is at the game in his Blades shirt so it's hard to be neutral in this one.

Sunderland have been Football League Champions six times.

Is that six more times than Newcastle?

He'll be having a great day out, Peter.

Hopefully our 6-year-old selves will do next season.

Unfortunately, Colin, the Skunks have four.

However, their last one was 98 years ago. 😂😂😂

Two ex-Blues coming on:

Tom Cannon and Tom Davies.

Tom Cannon on and young Tom Davies as well.

I didn't know that, Rob.

Tom's on, good luck to him and them.

Blades trying to call on The Spirit of the Blues.

Danny, as Liam #8 says, for the lads it's a case of wanting to win today but not get promoted.

Young Maurice became very disillusioned with losing heavily most weeks in the Premier League.

OHHHHH!!!!

Haha – great goal

Moore with a blunder for the ages.

He will live with that for life.

Still want Moore, Jamie?

That ball had eyes.

Awful giveaway, but great finish.

Blunt Blades.

Hahaha, Rob.

No. I believe I retracted that after a comment from Mike and Colin!

Now it's a hard, hard no.

Pete, condolences to them.

Even if they didn't want to go up, that's shattering.

Pete - the 6-year-old is building character and prepping for life, which can be unfair.

Slap some lipstick on this pig, m'man!

Quite a game.

Well in, Sunderland.

Sunderland till someone dies!

Congrats to them.

A big club back in the Premier League.

Can they stay there?

Pickford will be buzzing tomorrow.

He will be laughing at those Skunk Maggots! 😂😂😂

Sunderland had lost their last five games in the Chamionship..

Watson scored the winner, now on his way to Brighton.

Hell be singing his new song to them, Rob.

As will we.

The only thing I can say to the Blades lads is that we know how they feel.

Boy, do we!

Yep, Christy, he gets them promoted and now he'll play against 'em.

We can forget Rigg etc for 12 months.

I don't know, Ian.

The vultures, including us, will be circling tomorrow.

Probably added another £10M plus on the asking price mate.

I was hoping Sheffield Utd would do it, and we could pick some bargains.

What a bonkers game! My mum’s family is from Sunderland, so I’ve got a soft spot for them. Proper big old club too.

But I think they’ll struggle next season.

All three of them will, Paul.

The gulf is getting wider all the time.

Colin, Leeds are being touted, probably because of their name. A very good couple of mates reckon they will struggle.

They could do a Forest and service season one. But they could do an Ipswich, Leicester or Southampton and go straight back down.

You are right. The gulf is widening. It's why Man Utd, Tottenham and ourselves were secure this season.

I think Leeds will stay up.

Andy # 97,

After the Red Shite, I detest Leeds because they have the worst fans. I remember when they were last in the Premier :League, against Arsenal, their centre-back went straight through I think it was Martinelli.

Right in front of the Leeds fans, a straight red, and they gave him a standing ovation, horrible.

Aberdeen win the Scottish cup against Celtic.

So, at least in cup competitions, it's been the year of the underdog.

If you want to stay up, the very best chance is to grind out an ultra-defensive season. For the past two seasons, the Bottom 3 have been relegated because they ship far, far too many goals.

I think Dyche would have kept at least 2 of this season's Bottom 3 up.

However, daft as it sounds, I think some of these clubs are not too fussed if they get relegated. This many not be true but I did hear that Burnley are the most profitable team in English football. This is because of the huge parachute payments when relegated.

As long as they get promoted every few seasons, they will remain in very good financial shape (unlike us where relegation could have finished us off).

Burnley, therefore, will continue to entertain, develop young talented players etc and ship too many goals. Sunderland may do the same. But I expect Leeds to tighten things up in order to stay up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they have hired Dyche by Christmas in order to do just that.

Stupid system, it should be Bottom 3 down from Premier League. and Top 3 up from Championship.

Sheffield Utd finished 14 points in front of Sunderland, they must feel robbed.

So why don't they make the Premier League Bottom 2 get relegated and the 17th & 18th have to play off — the winner stays up?

That's no more stupid than these play-offs. Yeah, it's about the money and prolongs the interest and all that, but it does not seem like justice.

Christy, I agree, they are possibly the very worst. However, they are a "big" club. I will be backing them to say up.

I think one of the unlikely top clubs will go down. Fulham, Bournemouth, Brentford or, at a big price, Brighton. If all of them survive, I will eat my hat!!

Robert, a Blades mate said he's quite happy to stay in the Championship as they at least win a few games down there.

Robert, absolutely. The aim in the first season has to be to stay up.

If I recall correctly, a few years back, QPR got promoted. The owner boldy declared they would be challenging for Champions League.

Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford have demonstrated that, if you get a foothold, you can build on it.

Relegation isn't the be-all and end-all. Fortunately we have managed to escape it through hook or crook on several occasions.

Other notable big clubs have suffered that fate but came back from the ashes in my lifetime: Aston Villa, Newcastle Utd, Leeds Utd, Manchester City and Manchester Utd.

Pleased for Sunderland. Gutted for Sheffield Utd, who must feel aggrieved being the 3rd placed team in the Champiomnship by far.

Robert #10,

Burnley received 55% parachute payment for being relegated the first year, but they won't get the remaining 45% because they're back up now, the Premier League keep it.

I said that I believed the three promoted clubs will go down for the past two seasons. I had a little flutter on them to do so.. This time, I believe they definitely will. None of them will get 30 points in the Premier League.

The promotion and relegation arrangements between the Championship and Premier League are obsolete. The gulf is now too great.

I'll be jumping on the three promoted teams to go straight back to where they came from as soon as the bookies open the book.

Money well spent, Colin. However, I have a horrid hunch that Leeds will stay up. The wannabe skunks are already planning what to do with the parachute money.

Peter M: I won't ask about the in-laws mate.

I’ll go Burnley, Sunderland and West Ham.

What sort of odds do you get on backing the three promoted teams to go straight back down?

Surely its even money at best?

I'd love to get rid of Bournemouth, Rob.

Having said that Leeds will stay up, you look at 17th up and you can make a case for each one of them staying up.

Right now: Sunderland 4/11, Burnley 2/5, Leeds 8/11, Wolves 10/3, Brentford 5/1, Fulham 5/1, Palace 11/2, Us 7/1, Hammers 7/1, Red Shite 100,000/1 (get a tenner on it)

Paul, I'd love to see Bournemouth, Brighton and the furthest away club in London, Palace go down.

But ain't gonna happen.

Paul #111

Slightly better than even's then.

Fulham 5/1.

Seems like the bookies suspect something about Marco Silva.

Bnmouth 8/1, Brighton 10/1, Forest 12/1 Man U 16/1, Man City 20/1 (!!!!!!!), Spuds 40/1 Chels 100/1, Villa 150/1 Skunks 200/1, 'teta 1000/1, and tell a lie shite 1000/1

Brighton is quite a nice place to visit though Rob, especially if you book a hotel for the night mate.

I'ld fecking love to see Palace's poxy plazzy ultras go down. Seen the plans rebuilding Selhurst?

https://www.coliseum-online.com/builder-picked-for-selhurst-park-revamp/

For me, any team that can win three games in a row will not be relegated. Leeds will do that, the other two won't.

So where is the value? Certainly not in backing the promoted clubs at 11/8.

It's Bournemouth's time and, Paul, if that 8/1 is on offer, fill your boots!

Pleased for Sunderland.

But it hurts us, because Neil would have been a useful signing.

God, I hope you're right, Andy, but what great deals they got with Evanilson and Kerkez. (Imagine those two running out at Everton Stadium? Unfortunately.) Rob would go on a week-long binge if Bournemouth went down.

Klipperty gums is available apparently.

Rob, they would be my choices too for the same reason.

I think Bournemouth may do but not the other 2, not yet anyway.

Love to see Blackburn, Preston and West Brom get promoted next season but that's not going to happen either. Will Wrexham give it a decent go?

11/8 Andy #115

Mug's odds for that bet.

Are City’s odds due to the uncertainty over the ongoing case against them?

You're going all Hovis and clogs on us there Neil: Preston, Blackburn – my theory is that you want shorter trips.

But West Brom. Yuck. Inverted skunks. Never liked them. My first FA Cup Final was 1968.

Leeds are 8/11 To go straight back down PF. You may get decent value if you fancy them to stay up.

The bookies have clearly noticed the recent trend because they have shut the door on it.

8/11 + 2/5 + 4/11 works out roughly at 5/2 for all three promoted clubs to go straight back down. Stingy odds when you think the same bet paid 9/2 last season and 6/1 the season before

Good point Neil.

Paul, correct mate.

Replace West Brom with Stoke, Derby or Wrexham but can’t see any of those coming up either. Maybe Burnley will come back up for a real Hovis feel.

Unfortunately, Colin, Leeds being 8/11 to go down does not make them odds against to stay up. Football betting is an entirely different market to horse racing. There are thousands of people who have a bet on football every week( I am one) who will bet on their instinct, regardless of odds. It is monumentally tilted towards bookies, in fact a licence to print money.
So, I would reckon that Leeds will be, at best,1/2 to stay up, which would make them a silly bet. The idea for bookies is to encourage accumulators, which is really a foolish bet. The bookmaker always has the draw on their side.
Here's a tip that has made me a profit for a few seasons; look for a double on the lower Scottish divisions.
Most people reckon they could scour the divisions and find two teams to win at, say 1/2 and 1/3. Start with a £1 and keep doubling up, in ten weeks you will have £1k. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to do.
DON'T BET ON FOOTBALL!

Colin, you don't ever get cumulative odds on the same contingency. No bookie in the world will offer you a treble at 8/11, 2/5 and 4/11. It is a linked contingency.

Say, for example Everton to win 3/1 and Beto to score first, might be 20/1 and 5/1 but you ain't getting 100/1 if you want to bet on that.

I don't know much about much, but betting I do know, from a lifetime as a better and a layer.

Come on, Paul, you must like some teams?

Colin #122,

8/11 + 2/5 + 4/11 = 5/2

Those are individual odds. Doesn't work like that when you are betting on multiple teams to go down.

Maybe you have a very friendly bookie?

Ha ha, Andy #126,

Made the same point not sure it' s a good thing we know it.

I think they will all go straight back down – and in Leeds's case, I hope they do.

Points to stay up have been 34, 28, 35, 34, 26, 25 (unless Leicester win at Bournemouth).

In the last 2 seasons all promoted teams went down. In the 5 years before that, one promoted club was the surprise package and got well over 40 points and would have been challenging for Europe. So if one of them makes it, then it will be a surprise given the current gap.

Danny, at 104, don't forget to add Spurs to your big teams that managed to get relegated mid to late 1970s!

Andy

You are comparing apples to oranges

Naming a player to score first in a match when you are betting on his team to win. IS contingency linked. one can have a direct baring on the other.

Backing three teams to go down is a different kettle of fish. If Leeds go down it neither saves nor condemns Burnley. Its like any other treble. All three need to be relegated or your bet is a losing one.

You say no bookie in the world would give me a treble at those odds but I've only submitted one request-a-bet to one bookie (sky) and I was offered 5/2. I have decided against it because I think it is very stingy.

I would love to know where you got you 11/8 from For naming 3 teams to go down ???

Those odds are not just for mugs. They are for the numerically challenged and would not entice a single bet from anywhere.

Andy #126,

'Contingent' is obviously a difficult one to grasp though.

Same goes for you, Brendan

Where did you see "Evens at best" (post 109)?

"Slightly better than evens then" (post 113)?

And 11/8 (post 119)?

Which three bookies did you get these odds from?

I think you are the one struggling to grasp contingent. It's got you chasing yourself up your own arse...

As has been the case for years now, the Sunderland board (with Burnley's and Leeds) can now start planning just how to spend the utterly corrupt "parachute payments" one, two or all three of them will receive next summer.

Deafening applause all round? No!

Not if you've got the slightest grasp of modern-day allegedly competitive football.

Next season will obviously again feature three leagues in one in the money-spewing Premier League. You'd have to be thick not to notice.

As a Toffee I was thrilled to see the likes of Ipswich, QPR, Huddersfield, Forest, Leicester and other now "non-entity" clubs (according to the organised media/"governance" circus now engulfing us) win, challenge and entertain near the top.

Cue Mary Hopkin's most famous song folks. I really don't expect to see anything resembling "a level playing-field" again.

Seriously Colin #134,

What's with the hissy fit?

We're talking bookies' odds...

Fair, Raymond (127):

Us, Marine, Celtic, Queen of the South, Athletic Bilbao, Sekondi Hasaacas FC (used to live in Takoradi, Ghana), and big soft spots for Cambridge and Norwich.

Don #135

"Those were the days.. my friend"

Now there's a song for a new stadium.

We took the Stretford End / We took The Shed and North Bank Highbury / Highbury / We took the Geordies too / We fight for Everton / We are the Street End/Park End of Everton FC / nanananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananana / We are the Street End/Park End of Everton FC

(I counted out each one of those "nas" - x34)

Please no, Brendan — that'd be Kenwright pap! :)

How about this — the players might like it:

Eddie & the Hot Rods — Do Anything You Wanna Do

You're a hard man to please, Don Alexander #140.

Colin # 132,

The odds I was offered where in a betting shop and are truly pathetic. Betting shop odds always are for the mugs. (I bet in a shop every Saturday!)

I think 5/2 isn't too bad actually. Anything over 3/1 and I'll be tempted to cast my doubts on Leeds aside...

Genuine request: If you find odds to your liking let me know

I'm glad you wrote post #140, Brendan, because I thought Don's earlier post @135 was the perfect description of modern football.

I was reading this thread yesterday and it was the polar opposite views of two of our American friends who have both been referees, I think, that intrigued me.

Mike said his flag would have been up for offside in the old days. (That didn't make sense to me “in the old days”, Mike, because once the ball is in the net, I thought you were still supposed to put your flag up, if you think it's offside?)

Jamie said the league wants a competitive game, not 0-2 at half time, and then went on to say he's off to the left of the keeper's sight, circling back to an onside position and he wasn't even in front of the keeper, and he didn't impede a move to the keeper's left when the shot was taken.

It's all about opinions indeed, Jamie, and mine was (after just watching the highlights) that if the keeper was unsighted, it was because of the players in front of him who were either his own defenders or attackers who were onside.

VAR can sometimes be correct but, at other times, it's just making very subjective decisions that could go either way and this means that it's polluting football and making it a lot less natural to view.

The richest game in the world was turned by a very, very, very contentious decision.

Rob, nooooo! Palace and Brighton are my two nearest, and favourite, away days. We've had good times at those two recently.

Bournemouth is an interesting shout. I'm sure Iraola will be tempted by a bigger club (us please) and some of his better players could follow him.

I'll go with:

West Ham
Burnley
Sunderland

To drop.

Agreed Andy 143

Betting shop punting and online punting are almost two different industries these days. It's a wider audience online and you are almost guaranteed to be offered eye catching "price boosts".

You clearly don't need me to tell you about the pitfalls and snares hidden beneath.

Brendan,

I am guilty of the occasional hissy fits if I feel somebody is trying to misrepresent me, but 99.9% of the stuff I put on here is done tongue firmly in cheek. I like the craic. The Banter.

My comment about you chasing yourself up your own arse was a poorly executed attempt at humour. Apologies for the way it came out. I was trying to take the Micky. Not offend.