The clock is ticking on the January Transfer window…

I think Calvert-Lewin will be staying now that Dyche has gone and he is not on his own up front. I think under Dyche it must have been soul-destroying to play in the way asked. Moyes has changed the emphasis and Calvert-Lewin looked motivated more than he has for months.

I can't see anyone going that's going to raise a lot of cash though, with so many coming to the end of their contracts, their transfer value is minimal (some may say it already was).

Everton has been and will be (for the foreseeable future) a poorly run club

I would like to see a pacey winger and a midfielder who can consistently make the telling types of pass that Gana did for Ndiaye at the weekend added to the squad.

It's just Khusanov, Malen, Philogene and Agbadou. The others are youth development deals for U21-year-olds between about £5M and £15M.

Most clubs are figuring out what they can sell before they know what they can buy – so it goes down to the wire.

It's not that we're badly run, it's more that we just don't have the money to select a primary target or two and pay what it takes to get them.

In the last few days of the window, agents, selling clubs, players, and buying clubs will give up the brinkmanship and start doing deals.

We will probably sign 2 maybe even 3 players.

The actual positions are less important, more critical is that they are an improvement on what we have. Better quality in every area should be both the short and long-term aim.

A few bob coming our way!

It's understandable that the targets and strategy may have shifted with Moyes coming in. A fortnight ago, I would have said that a left-back and a right-winger were the clear priorities but actually Mykolenko has been improved for the last two games and Lindstrom was arguably MotM against Spurs.

I can imagine there may also be a tussle between Moyes and Thelwell for transfer control. Moyes is reputed to have clashed with Tim Steidten who was Techincal Director at West Ham over targets and between them they probably had more flops than successes there.

Thelwell's long term future at Everton is still unclear and no doubt TFG will want to wait till they are happy with all key decision-makers before committing to large spending.

That works out about £500,000 and every amount is helpful no matter how small.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vH2Qxe7FxN8

Given Spurs' injury list, I cannot see him coming in this window so it will be on the back burner, unless of course Levy does his nut at him for his parade around the pitch, him and Willian would guarantee survival quick smart.

It won't be happening this window and generally I think going back in for players seldom goes as well as you'd hope.

I think they were upset coz they brought Son to tears with their reactions to the players post match on Sunday.

Good enough for him like. :-)

1] we cannot afford to sign him – at least not in this window;

2] Given Spurs' current position, I cannot see Levy sanctioning a move to a rival at this stage.

The summer window may be different proposition as I understand we'll have more money to spend after end June.

Injury status permitting, I'd have Richarlison back. Given his ability level and work rate, I suspect he is a Moyes type of player too.

Even on a free his wages would be problematic. For a fee, it makes no sense at all.

Hopefully we never return to this disastrous strategy of 2016 to 2021.

Don't remember him doing much there.

If TFG is serious about restoring us to our former glory then this is the man to do it.

Melo is a crock, Edward.

Summer will be very interesting.

He's hardly played for Spurs this season because of injuries.

Sadly you're spot on, mate.

I thought we'd maxxed out on loans? Or is that just from English teams?

We will probably be looking to sell one maybe two of our own players to raise some cash, who knows.

No, we have no loan spaces left as it stands.

If deals can be made for them, then we could put a decent sized down payment on someone like Cunha.

Before you start with the PSR argument, remember no one pays the total amount upfront.

The second challenge (which becomes huge in the summer), is the low sell-on value of players now, and for many, that is zero come summer.

So it's a really big challenge at this time to make player upgrades, getting the most out of what we have, through fitness and rotation will be order of the day.

The loan situation, with Broja especially, is very frustrating, we don't really know what Chermiti can do, so can we risk selling Beto?

So it's get a balanced squad in this window by any means possible…

That makes our options a bit limited then.

Players like Cunha need to be found before they've made their mark.

I have often said these players don't start out as superstars, most have had a humble start with a club most have never heard of, it is just spotting them, which asks a lot of questions of our scouting network!

It is somewhat worrying that nothing has happened up to now, and of those we have been linked with, they have either gone elsewhere, or are no longer of interest, or available.

PSR worries lifted but still limitations on what we are able to spend. Moyes is historically fairly astute in spotting players, but is it his job to do so?

No way he'd come to Everton – we're no better than Wolves in reality.

Link

Once McNeil, Garner, and Iroegbunam are back, that should be enough to get us safe.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see someone like Evan Ferguson from Brighton on a loan deal.

Calvert-Lewin will stay till the end of the season and may (if happiness and goals return and terms are right) sign another contract.

Beto, despite wanting out, cannot be allowed to leave. We have no other cover and cannot afford a quality forward, no loan places left, unless we can settle Broja situation with Chelsea.

Despite seeing a much better performance from Lindstrøm for first time, we still need pace and width… options without loan spaces are limited… Willian, short term deal?

Midfield will have options on injured players returning but I would hate to see Mangala injured.. or Gana for that matter.
Centre backs fine, O'Brien provides another option at right back but we remain exposed at left back.

We won't buy Chilwell, possible loan if loan space frees up, but Walker Peters who plays left and right available at knock down price as contract expires in the Summer.

I expect a lot more ifs and buts in remainder of window, and maybe a couple of deals to emerge.

Even Moyes coming back irked me.

If we get all the injured players fit you just know one or two fit players will get crocked in the mean time.

It's very difficult maintain consistency when you have to chop and change specially if you don't have strength in depth like the money clubs.

Beto has not really blown us away but very few of our attackers have this season, however it's likely he will be kept till the season's end with Chermitti and Broja out unless they can bring in another attacker of that ilk but more quality. Hard to do I know.

Despite the last ten minutes of nervousness Everton showed a lot more liveliness and confidence on Sunday than they had shown previously so let's hope that is a sign things will get better.

Colin suggests we can, Christine says not.

A crucial question given the circumstances.

Leeds would have to agree and they're in no hurry to have him; they don't want to pay his wages.

We do have Chermiti as cover too, once he gets (and hopefully stays) fit.

It's very difficult to predict this window and will largely depend on who is made available in the last week or so and what Moyes says he needs.

The Nuamah chase suggests there is some money to spend and I can see us bringing in a player of his ilk and profile (Bobb from City, Fatawa from Leicester, Koleosho from Burnley, Belloumi from Hull etc).

And then it will be one or two short term practical signings to help us get over the line (Willian on a free or Chilwell on a loan etc).

I have truly never had any real doubts that we will be relegated and I feel in the summer a lot of the weaknesses in our squad can be addressed most likely with the sale of Branthwaite which in PSR terms means you could nearly spend as much as you want.

I would just like to sign Tyler Dibling and if we could put the money on the table I think it could be doable. If we could sell Beto and Doucoure or Keane just to get around PSR then I would do it. This kid looks like a cross between McMananaman and Bale in style and I think he could play in any of the 4 attacking positions.

It would be a signing in the mould of Lukaku, a generational player for us. It would signify a statement of intent from TFG.

Despite not being a Moyes fan, the signings of Cahill, Seamus, Pienaar, Arteta etc… even 6 month wonder Jelavic was a great signing.

He also bought some duds like Beattie, Kr°ldrup, Jacobsen, Van Der Meyde, Castillo, Neville amongst others.

We need to copy the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth and, dare I say, Wolves.

Mike @36, unless both parens clubs agree to accept then we are screwed. Great work by Thelwell.

Perhaps some amazing huge sponsorship for the new stadium will allow us to spend big this summer, PSR wise.
Return of The Don, who brings back Richi and a few Madridista cherries like Bellingham, Mbappe and Vinisicus Junior...

Gotta aim high!! We would need to increase the new stadium capacity to 152,888!!

Tell Leeds, you pay £15k per week, we pay the other £75k (£1,3M lump sum) and take him back for your promotion push. We then free up a space.

Yes, the players might continue to step up, but fresh blood is needed to keep the pressure on and give different options. Pace on the wings is needed and cover quality cover for midfield.

I'm hoping for at least two signings this window.

He was always good on the whole at spotting a player and deciding what is really needed. I should imagine not everything of Thelwell's shopping list, not that we're privy to it, may suit the new Manager.

The four players coming back from injury are all good and will improve under Moyes, maybe Beto will get a new lease of life too?

As for incomings, I predict two: Kyle Walker Peters is a real possibility as he covers both full-back positions. A wide player like Fellows from West Brom could be a steal as he could turn out to be another Jarrod Bowen coming from the Championship.

Dibling from Southampton could be exciting too but maybe not available until the summer and in demand.

When everyone is fit, we have a good team. I expect Harrison and probably Broja will not be kept, the latter due to continual injuries and the reason why Richarlison wont be considered, even if he were available.

One player we must do a deal for is Mangala, him and Iroegbunam could be a brilliant future pairing when Gueye starts to inevitably wane.

Poor lad still a virgin then?

Agree with Conor though, this lad will be a future star, could we afford him now…?

Goodison was known as a striker's graveyard for a reason. Since Lukaku, I suppose it is again.

I too would be amazed if Calvert-Lewin is an Everton player in August.

The level of abuse and hatred directed at him by a sizeable section of our fan base is way beyond anything I have witnessed in my 71 years as a blue. I don't think the online hatred is anywhere near as bad among the matchgoers, but he would have to be deaf dumb and blind not to be aware of it. I don't believe he feels he owes them anything at all.

I'm not really interested in people saying "I don't really hate him"; I don't buy it. You don't come onto a website to angrily target the same player week-in & week-out, simply because you think he isn't good enough. I think it's best for all concerned if he just leaves at the end of the season. The same applies to Harrison and Doucoure to a lesser extent.

I can't see any possibility of unloading any of them in this transfer window, which will hinder the chances of new faces coming in. So hopefully Moyes can get the best out of all of them between now and the end of the season.

I know it seems silly playing a player in his proper position. But it might just work…

The most practical additions to me would be Walker-Peters for a nominal fee and Willian on a free. Fellows from West Brom may be one for the future but would probably take time to adjust to the Premier League.

As for Richarlison returning, I'm with Robert @14 on this one. A nostalgic idea but an impractical one that is not going to take us any further ahead.

You have Phil Neville down as a dud. I always liked him and thought he brought a lot of professionalism and diligence to the squad – not to mention some really decent performances – and he was rightly made Captain.

Far from being a dud in my view.

Harrison is probably on loan for the season, unfortunately, and it doesn't matter which wing he plays, he's not good enough. Our best bet is to send Beto back to Italy, and bring in another striker.

I believe there's still a chance Calvert-Lewin might sign a new contract, he looks a different player under Moyes, with players supporting him, and the fans on matchday definitely appreciate him, unlike the ToffeeWeb Live Forum.

He should've stuck to cricket.

Igamane from Rangers would be a good addition, he's doing well at Rangers and he is what we need, a goal scorer.

I just hope, like everyone, we make the right choices and before too long!

Lucky for Phil Neville you're not a manager.

I thought he was a journeyman footballer but could carry out a manager's instructions. He's most fondly remembered for that tackle on Ronaldo.

Sorry James, I thought he was bang average. A trier, yes, but zero skill. Maybe it's just my dislike of Mancs which blinkers me.

I played to a reasonably decent level years ago, and all the best teams I played for had an old head in the middle of the park who conducted play. Phil Neville was that guy.

Someone who immediately changes us and excites the crowd.

We already have Ndiaye and he's basically the same player.

With Igamane, whatever money we have or capacity to recruit within the rules we have, in my eyes he would be a great addition.

Maybe he has a surprise or two in mind…

I think Chermiti has shown promise but he will only play cameo roles till the end of the season, and I don't think Beto is the answer.

However, players like this do pop up in the lower leagues (eg, Jadon Sancho at Wycombe) and it might be realistic to hunt them down at U14 to U17 level. Signings like Justin Clarke, Braiden Graham and Ciaran Loney that we made last summer.

On the other hand I believe we have delayed fees coming up for Beto and Chermiti so it may be prudent to let Beto go if he wants out and take a small hit on him.

Personally I would love us to get Walker Peters and Dibling but that aint gonna happen till the Summer at least.

Dont really rate Dewsbury-Hall but Nkunku would be a good addition if we can get him.

Tom Fellows is a risk but one we might take.

Broja, it seems is in limbo as even if he recovers from his injury he will still need to get match fit. this basically rules him out.

If Chelsea won't sanction his return then we are stuck with him. I would consider buying him in the summer although his track record is a bit worrying.

Harrison has gone backwards. In fairness, he has been played mostly as a winger which isn't his best position but he really is just short on quality.

Leeds though, might consider taking him back.

Only then we could get in a domestic loan.

An incoming gem will certainly help and freshen up the squad, but please don’t go for broke on some overpriced prima donna that is surplus to requirements elsewhere.

If Moyes and Thelwell are smart then they won’t press the Mosh panic button.

Get the round pegs in the round holes and we might just be ok. Or wait until the 11th hour and bring someone in on the cheap.

I always liked the ‘Everton swoop for ……’ headlines from the 70s/80s but now they fill me with dread.

Edward #15, that's an understatement. He only played for them once, when they got crushed by Napoli in the CL.

Kevin #74, can't argue with that.

Burnley spunked £100M in the summer of '23 and had a nightmare of a season. But, they regained over half that amount by selling just two players, Sander Berge to Fulham and Oderbert to Spurs.

Neither of them had a great season, they just showed some promise, but because of their age and relatively low wages it was easy for Burnley to move them on.

We on the other hand, gave huge contracts to players in their late 20s and were stuck with them for years!

We can't allow that to ever happen again, sentiment or not.

We are fine at RB and CB, especially if Moyes sees O'Brien as a sometime right back.

If Lindstrom can kick on between now and the end of the season, a right-sided player can wait until summer, but a versatile winger who can play either side would be nice.

That's all I'd go for this month, bearing in mind continued constraints. Were DCL to be injured, a newly fit Chermiti or even Ndiaye (if the winger is signed) could cover - sell Beto.

I expected minimal transfer activity this month; no more than one cheap signing and a loanee. Many of the clubs which would normally make waves are wary of their PSR position. Very few clubs have quality players surplus to requirements.

We need four wins and a few draws to be safe. With the current personnel and barring a further spate of injuries we should be able to achieve safety. We badly need additions to do more than that.

This discussion reinforces what a massive recruitment challenge we face in the summer. Replacing those out of contract will be far from straightforward. Where for example will we find a striker immediately comfortable at Premier League level? How much will that cost? How will we replace Gana? Doucouré? How much will we receive for Branthwaite? If Branthwaite leaves do we keep Keane? Will we pay the transfer fees required for Mangala and Lindstrøm? Do we sell Patterson and find a new right back? What about competition for Mykolenko at left back?

Who will have the final say on all the wheeling and dealing required? Moyes, Thelwell or someone yet to be appointed?

Moyes is looking to improve by targetting players who know the league, he certainly does.

I'm with you on the Neville question, mate. I wish I could have 58 caps and millions in the bank after 500 Premier League games for being a crap footballer.

He was a good player and a good leader when we needed one. Too many anti-Manc sentiments on here clouding judgement in my opinion.

With that in mind, on reflection I ,wouldn't let anybody leave; we must stay in the Premier League. It's the last season in Goodison and next season is the first in our new stadium, to go down now would be criminal and that's not counting the gigantic implications money-wise.

I'm sure the club will do all they can knowing all the above is at stake. I'm guessing two new faces.

I wouldn't want Richarlison back as well, his appearance record since he signed for Spurs is terrible. We don't want any more players who spend most of their time in the treatment room.

But then remembered that Michael Keane has nearly played that many...

Chilwell could be a signing with Brojas return part of the deal. Walker-Peters would be a great signing and Willian until the end of the season is a no brainer. He was fantastic at Fulham last season so if he’s fit, would add a lot to this squad.

I’d love to see Mykolenko, Beto, Coleman, Young and Doucoure moved out but that’s probably at the end of the season. Gueye and Keane will surely be let go, and I think we’ll be looking carefully at Patterson and Chermitti to see whether they’ve got a future here too.

Unfortunately, I doubt it will happen.

Pete, he's signed through the 2027 season. What would you see as the importance of extending him now?

My highest transfer hope was a longshot -- Tim Weah of Juve and the USA, whose searing pace would have been perfect for us on right wing -- and it's off the table now. He scored a fine goal for Juve over the weekend and they've now closed out all loan speculation.

The thing that’s been on my mind for months now is what John (80) brings up about how massive an issue our recruitment needs will be for next season. Because as nice as it is to have aging players on big wages off our books, it also leaves some big questions and holes to fill just to have a respectable amount of depth — nevermind mid-table quality — next season, especially if we sell Branthwaite.

Where will be find the money in the summer to fill all those needs, because there’s only so much quality to be found on a free? If we lose DCL, Lindstrom, Mangala, Doucoure, Gueye, Young and Branthwaite in the summer, that’s 3/4 of our bang-average starting XI.

In many ways I’m less worried about staying up this season than putting out a decent product at BMD to start the next one. In a perfect world, we will sell Branthwaite to fund 3 starters, and Armstrong, Mills, Iroebugnam, Patterson and Chermiti all take big leaps forward — but those are big ifs. All of which is to say, we need to get things right short- and long-term right now and not blow too much money now out of fear.

Love Richarlison, but no chance unless he takes a massive pay cut to come home.

I like that Ipswich lad Delap but someone like Manure will snap him up and besides I don't think Ipswich will let him go just yet.

We have a few youngsters of our own to build on such as Irregbonou and Armstrong but we may need a big sale to bring in some others for next season.

It's doubtful anything will happen for this season so we just have to hope the injuries clear up sooner rather than later and hope the league position is solidified,

That gives us plenty of financial room.

Apparently 90% of communication is non verbal. It’s my opinion that Moyes is unlikely to be impressed with the bulk of his signings and contract extensions. Poor, lazy and uninspiring with the noticeable outlier in N’Diaye

Although we have probably missed out on him now, it highlights that talented players are out there and can be sourced within budget.

It is not easy by any stretch but looking in the right places is a good start -

- Premier League academies
- relegated clubs
- championship
- more exotic low cost markets

Moyes has done all of this before so will be nothing new.

The only trouble is that the €5.3m spent on Phil Neville in 2003 probably works out at about €20m or more now. So we will have to work very hard indeed to find good value.

We have new owners, moving into a fabulous stadium, which will give us a lot more commercial and match day revenue, so we can afford to bring in better players.

Would Douglas Luiz be an option? He can't get into the Juve team, and would be an upgrade on Gueye who's gone in the summer.

I'll trust you, as I'm not a numbers guy. In my mind, to replace the ones that actually play of those I mentioned means a few £15-20M signings, not just wages, and I get that those fees are amortized over time.

Is the prevailing wisdom that we can do that and still keep Branthwaite, assuming he doesn't ask out, which I assume he will?

I've watched him a few times and been very impressed.
Dutch players, as we know, can be a big hit or miss, however, from what I've seen of him I think he might be suited to the English game. him a few times and been very impressed.
Dutch players

I've no doubt he'll have a few clubs looking at him but reckon he wouldn't cost a great deal. Might be worth a bit of a punt but as it's so late in the window doubt it

Pickford, Ndiaye, and Branthwaite are probably the only three remaining players who the club would get good money for, as we continue to be massively hampered by PSR.

It's really worrying when you stop and think about it because we can't just go and start spending money on players without receiving some money back and, although the club will soon be generating a lot more money through the new Everton Stadium, we still look to be in a very precarious position, unless I'm hopefully missing something?

We might not like it but selling high at the right time and reinvesting is the right model.

If we can get £1.99 as a job lot I'd snap it up.

On Phil Neville, not the greatest player, but a captain and leader. You could always tell when he wasn't on the pitch, his presence was missed.

Do you only rate players who are American, because you never seem to mention any English or European players.

I admire your patriotism but don't let that cloud your judgement; if a player is good enough for us, we've got to trust the manager or DoF in that respect.

Mind you Thelwell has hardly set the world alight since he's been here, bar 1 or 2 exceptions.

Sad for an '80s Blue.

Not sure what that will mean to us and our ability to buy, especially with so many out of contract, but it can only be better than we have been for the last few years.

I suppose that depends if Gyökeres stays at Sporting.

Get £60M for Branthwaite. Use it to buy a right-back, creative midfielder and a striker – but only do it if Everton have identified the targets first. I don't think that's happened, so forget it.

I believe, when we consider everything, the club should be looking for young players to bolster the squad, right now. Benched players who can come on as subs or be used in case of an injury to get the club into next season, with a view to becoming starters in 2025-26. Championship or second-tier players looking to take an opportunity with a big club, but not necessarily recognised. We'll be okay with a point a game for the rest of the season.

Moyes was in charge when Coleman was signed for £60k – we need three to five more of those kind of signings. Not too much to ask!

But he asks a very worrying question #80: “If Branthwaite leaves, do we keep Keane?” A compelling case for securing Jarrad.

I think Moyes should have two priorities.

We desperately need someone in an attacking midfield role as Doucoure is not creative enough to play that role. Maybe McNeil's return could sort that out but I would be tempted to be looking for reinforcements.

The second is at left-back, especially if at times we want to play three centre-backs, Mykolenko is another honest hard-working player but he desperately lacks quality. I'd be tempted to go after Kieran Trippier who is now second choice at Newcastle and out of contract in the summer. Not a long term strategy but I think he's still got a couple of good years in him and he's definitely quality.

If we could only do one piece of business, I would hope we could bring in Walker-Peters whose contract is up in the summer so maybe we could get him at a reasonable price? He looks pretty useful to me and would bring some additional quality to the squad.

John #109, agreed and I very much hope so.

Mike #98, excuse my skepticism but body language over the TV? I think perhaps you're reading your own opinion into Moyes's.

Graham #113, I differ with you on Trippier's "quality"... strongly.

We are losing that many players that we are definitely going to need a few quid to start the rebuilding process, unless we become very, very savvy in the transfer market

8 years service
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Important goals
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As of today there's no chance of any loan player so why speculate what could happen with regard to Broja... it's like saying if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle.

In terms of buying Premier league experience we'll struggle too unless the player it out of favour or there's PSR looming for the selling club.

If the new rules are based on turnover from July expect a quiet summer as our turnover is less than Championship side Leeds United.

In 2023 out turnover was £172m ranked 15th, we've got worse since. It's not so much about stadium capacity it's more to do with commercial revenue... and ours is poor, it's downright criminal.

Kit supplier value from Castore is abysmal at £2m per season, there's only Southampton Brentford & Ipswich who recieve less.

What makes it more palatable is the £18m paid by Stake as the shirt sponsor but again sleeve sponsorship is poor at £1.5m. A total of £21.5m per season for kit supply & shirt sponsorship

Villa are the next team higher on the list who recieve £40m overall. If you look at Man United be prepared to stay away from sharp pointy objects, Their total shirt revenue is £170m... yes, their shirt sponsorship alone is greater than our total turnover.

Sadly It's not about football, managers or players anymore it's pure and simply about money and what the club name can generate.

If transfer budgets etc are constrained by turnover the current status quo will easily be maintained. Their turnover eclipses our own... massively so. The top six will remain the top six as those teams flirting with it will inevitably need to sell their best players to remain compliant.

not even the richeat club in world football, Newcastle United can spend money as the club doesn't generate enough of it.

Everton's deal with Castore is worth £8 to £10m per season.

And that's just for sponsorships. That's not for kit SALES. The Manure sell over two million shirts worldwide every year (I won't share how many the RS sell, because you'd be physically ill).

And how many Everton shirts are sold? I don't know worldwide, but in the US it's zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Niente. NOT A FUCKING ONE. Because Everton shirts are not, to my knowledge, available at any store in America. Want one? Buy it online. Amazon or WalMart or the club site.

The only time I've ever seen an Everton shirt in an American store was at a soccer shop in San Francisco, where the owner had several Tim Howard shirts available around the time of the International Champions Cup game with Juventus. I asked where he got them. He shrugged and said he ordered them online and marked 'em up 100%. Couldn't keep them on the shelves.

Everton have been marketing morons in the US for decades. I hope and assume our American owners and their massive marketing operations (cars, movies, resorts, golf courses) will take care of that problem immediately.

Frequent rant over.

"it's like saying if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle."

A bit redundant in this day and age isn't it!

You can't have those players without someone doing all the other important stuff that people don't celebrate.

Neville was a necessity. And that's not intended to be a criticism of him.

While there are more important areas to get new faces in, I agree Walker-Peters appeals to me too. There is no doubt we have very little cover or competition for Mykolenko at left-back, and let's face it, he is not exactly consistent.

I think, provided Southampton have realised their challenge to stay in the Premier League is not only monumental but unrealistic, it would be a good chance to get him cheaply.

I'd love for Calvert-Lewin to stay and work under Moyes for longer but I figure he's off no matter what now. All the others out of contract can go.

Be interesting to see how Lindstrom does for the rest of the season and if he's worth keeping as he was impressive on Sunday but it's only one game.

Mangala, a definite Yes from me – such a steady player and I'm sure you could get him a bit cheaper than Lyon expect.

A couple of shrewd signings this window are still required. It's such a big ask to bed 10 new players in during one pre-season so if they can get 2/3 in now, it'll only help both this season and in the summer.

Walker-Peters would be a no-brainer, pretty cheap, covers both full-backs but easily good enough to be a starter at either left- or right-back for a few years. Mykolenko for all his faults is good enough until the summer and then you target the position properly.

Someone at CaughtOffside is ghosting you and has made up a pretty convincing Marcus Edwards link out of your post.

Kudos, bro!

Good professional /

Disciplined /

Soldier /

Brave /

Organised /

Water carrier /

Order taker /

Footballer xxxxxxxxx.

The man made Abdoulaye Doucoure look like Zinadine Zidane. His performance against Wigan in that cup quarter final will forever be part of Goodison folklore. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a worse individual performance.

I didn’t mind Neville, he got very far in spite of his limitations and always put in 100% whenever he wore the Everton shirt, imo.

My abiding memory of Phillip though takes me back to one of the most heartbreaking games, I’ve had to endure in my adult life. “We knew Liverpool, where going to throw the kitchen sink at us” - and this explains a lot about the Kenwright and Moyes era, and the diminishing of Everton Football Club, to me.

That Wigan game, fits in with what Roy Keane said Colin, even though I’m only having an educated guess that it was Neville!!

Neville walks into this current team at both fullback positions and across the midfield.

He was very underrated, probably because we got him from United.

I thought he was a good captain in the circumstances.

Obviously, DC-L would not consider such an offer and some players we perhaps would not want to keep hold of but to afford say, Mangala at 25M transfer fee we would need to reduce the wage bill by 500Kpw, or less if Lindstrom is 15M.

Is it likely? I don't know what some of these out of contract players might expect at their age and at probably lower division clubs or overseas but it is food for thought while we discover how a transfer kitty may be put together, and probably not much help in the current transfer window.

I think that's a bit harsh on the new owners. They have only been in a month and you have already given up on them!!!

The very last thing he does is “walk into this current team” – unless it’s to give them some orange segments at half-time.

Honestly, what makes people even think like that? Fantasy Football has a lot to answer for!

Mind, the current garbage so-called links and rumours, claims and counter-claims on the clickbait sites are quite maddening at the moment, so crack on!

Otherwise a younger RB to backup Patterson to get the attacking side of game back. I don't want to see Garner or O'Brien wasted there. They're at best a stop gap solution.

Probably the best goalkeeper in the world at his prime and I know he enjoyed playing outfield in training but no way would he get into the midfield.

I've been having a look round at the much more reputable Transfer ITK pages online, and all I can see, is that the club have spoken with Willian' representatives on 17.1.25, but nothing since.? That maybe good news, or it may be bad?

If we did go for him, I would hope it would be a smallish sign-on fee, for a six-month pay-per-game contract, or maybe a 'peppercorn' wage with a ppg incentive?

When I've been looking for RWF and backup 9/10s I came across these three guys below; which might of interest?

The first is a 24 y.o. Moroccan International, having a decent season at FC Toulouse;

Zakaria Aboukhlal

Looks a decent prospect, even at 24.

The other is a young 21 y.o. Polish player with age-group thru to his full debut for the Polish 1st XI team experience.

A much more 'development project', but he is rated very highly by the 'Breaking The Lines' website.

Here's a couple of links;

Dominik Marczuk

Here is what BTL say about him;

Scouting report D Marczuk

Another player I like, but I'm not sure if he'd be available or even fit in is Christoph Lang (see below)

Christoph Lang

He's only 23 y.o. and a little heaver and taller than the other two (and Lindstrøm) he plays in all the right positions, creates assists, but little end product himself. But... he could do a job for us.

Just a couple of gems (maybe?) and a well-known player, Aboukhlal, possibly available for £12-15mn.

I'd welcome your thoughts Robert.

What a difference in EVERYTHING around the club, from the players to the fans to the expectations. We were gutted to 'only' finish 5th and get to the FA Cup Final!!

I remember at the time being frustrated with Moyes and wishing he'd be more adventurous, but compared to the last few years it was champagne stuff.

And Phil Neville was a fine player for us, £3.5M for 8 years service and some real professionalism. His best season for us, imo, was 06/07 when mainly played RB and weighed in with around half a dozen assists. And I wouldn't hold the Wigan game against him as he was around 36 years old and retired only a few months later.

Anyway, let's hope Moyes can rekindle those days where qualifying for Europe was pretty common. I think we'd appreciate it more after being so close to the brink lately, if we'd have gone down in 2022 then we'd be a League 1 club now.

What a terrifying thought!

That's not because he was brilliant - it's because standards in the playing squad have deteriorated so badly.

As I've mentioned before price inflation in players means the £5m ish we bought him for would now be about £20m or so now. That's a good way to look at the budgets Moyes was working with first time around. In real terms they were much bigger than our budgets since 2021 - just not as big as the rich 6 which created his glass ceiling.

Thewell according to Barrett Baxendale added 32 new positions and She gave out new titles and probably jobs like there was no tomorrow.

So throughout the whole PSR crisis there have been no cutbacks on staffing levels, just cutbacks in the Academy players and the first team squad.

With 59 England caps and ten major medals including Champions League, I think we could use some more over-rated players.

It's amazing though how there can be two polar opposite views when people are watching the same player!

I think a lot of fans couldn't recognise an outstanding player even if they fell over him. I'm not referring to Neville in this case, just any player.

To be honest, the profile of players you list are more like the players Leeds and Norwich and Burnley have been buying. A bit like the Czech winger Norwich just bought for about £7m.

They might kick on, but our Premier League rivals are generally either buying those with better credentials or much younger players with very high potential.

Not a dig, I’m just wondering if there’s some noise around those names?

Btw, I fell over Pat Van Den Hauwe once, in the away pub at Arsenal. I recognised him immediately and obviously profusely apologised for tripping over his outstretched left leg.

Oh, and if Phil Neville hadn’t played for manyoo at that time he wouldn’t have got anywhere near 59 caps.

He was decent, not doubting that, but over rated in that he wasn’t THAT good. He wasn’t even the best right back in his family!

Having watched the video of his tour of Finch Farm, I got the impression that he was taken aback by the number of treatment tables on show, hoping that they may never be full. It all must have been a bit of an eye-opener.!!

Further, you simply cannot win even 1 Premier League trophy with a substandard player let alone multiple Premier League trophies.

So clearly he was elite.

It was one of those I heard from a friend of a friend and they certainly convinced me over the Edwards rumour :-)

Will have to do one on Gnoto now, see if they take the bait.

PSR seems to have scared teams off.

No wonder we're after him (apparently we're not after him).

Time to get into reality not fantasy

There are far too many experts on here for it to all die down after January!

I have been amazed that at both of his pre-match pressers, he has stated how many people at the club he recognises!?

Lord above, he's been gone nearly 13 years, and we still have people who haven't been changed or challenged to improve the club. Mind you, we all knew the club, once you got in, was like living on Easy Street!

Things have got to start changing surely...?

When Mansour took over at Man City, he cleared the decks and brought in professional people, and kept turning people and players over till he got it right.

I know TFG can't compete with the 'ole days' of the Premier League, pre-PSR, but surely they must see the ineptitude and complacency around the club's administration, but everything seems to be happening in slow-motion. I'm not saying that they are doing anything wrong, I'm just frustrated that the club still seems to be 'in a moment of time' which isn't the now!

The trouble was, Jerome, the old board weren't interested in trimming staff when there was internecine strife between Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale; and yet the amount of wastage spent on players, managers, backroom staff, agents and Kia Joorabchian was quite frankly ludicrous! Which has left the club where we are now.

That's when all the business is normally done anyhow.

It may as well be a one day transfer window.

Many thanks for your honest assessment on those players. I was just looking primarily at potential young players for the club, but who could add something for a lower fee than Lindstrøm, who was a RWF 'specialist', but who can play more centrally too.

I would think that Marczuk would still be worth a bet, as his progress has been hampered by a lack of playing time since his recall.

Thanks again Robert.

Mark M [151]

No, the club haven't, and aren't being associated with anyone I named in my post 'to' Robert. They were just players that I 'scouted' as it were.

As far as I have seen, the only serious conversation I've seen regards players is Willian. Even that was on the 17th of this month, with no details other than the club spoke to his reps.

Regarding Lyon, and picking up Mangala and possibly Ernest Nuamah, I wouldn't expect we'd be able to pick them up cheaply. Reports in the French press are saying that Lyon have still not met Ligue 1 financial requirements.

So, in order to do so, despite the club having to sell, they will be holding out for full market value, i.e. top $$$ for their players.

I'm not saying we couldn't shave £2-3mn off the deals, but I doubt very much more as they are desperate for player sale generated cash.

His wages aren't a concern. We've loads of players going through the door in the short to medium term, and need some level of experience. He can cover all three of the attacking positions, plays his heart and scores goals.

I'd sell Beto and stick in a bid of £25M, which is his book cost and see what Spurs say.

We played Peterborough on 9th Jan so we have had the Broja issue for 2 full weeks. if we send him back we have to pay his wages but we get to loan someone else, if we persevere with him we still pay his wages so stop dicking about guys.

If we are starting to look at alternative targets this late in the window then we are asleep at the wheel, we must be looking at numerous targets, if we just end up with Willian then we will be laughed at. This is the only window we have to ensure we improve the squad... again stop etc...

Ian #164, I think Everton will be very concerned about Richi's wages. £90K/week is quite a lump for a player who, as you say, hasn't produced in three years. And our two best attacking players, Ndiaye and McNeil, play Richi's preferred position on the left side of attack. So while there may well be a deal to be done, it will take some hard thinking.

Some of the players we were linked with might not suit the Manager.

It would not be Everton if we did not go to the final hours of Deadline Day still chasing a player or two :-)

Of one thing we can be sure with TFG, they won't be carrying any passengers.

There's some space for you, Mike.

I didn't realise until reading some of the earlier comments that we have so many player contracts ending in the summer. Even if the January window turns out to be uneventful, it sounds like we'll see a lot of change in 2025. I'd love to think that we'll be safely in the top flight come next season so we can look forward to a fruitful team/club rebuild.

The same McNeil who led us in assists last year and goals the year before, and has been vastly more productive than Richi in all three seasons?

Heartbeat, huh?

It might not be high up on the priorities with his age and length of contract, but Mcneil is a limited footballer. If I had the choice between Richarlison or Mcneil, then the Brazilian gets picked every day of the week.

Set pieces a side, and that can be replaced, Mcneil lacks pace, doesn't score enough from open play, is so one sided it's untrue. Too slow for a wing back, lacks the quality to play central midfield, can't play on the right and I'd argue doesn't do enough on the left birth of a three either. He can strike a ball, but not even his biggest fan in Dyche played him in a 10 in a regular basis.

He might improve under Moyes, but I think we need better.

Sure, this is worry time until relegation is not poss and scares me. Massively.

But. (add your bit after dots?

You same?

Virginia - won't renew
Begovic - possible 3rd choice/coach
Coleman - hard to see carrying on as a player. Squad cover at best.
Young - big ask, squad cover at best.
Holgate - release
Keane - release
Mykolenko - might take the money rather than renew
Patterson - got to make a stake or cash in
Branthwaite - hard to retain at club despite difficult second season. Big sides will be in for him, and might off psr support to rebuild elsewhere.
Doucoure - release, he's done
Mangala - depends on the fee, can play, and bit one paced and gets caught on the ball
Lindstrom - depends on the next 6 months. Or possibly another loan.
Gana - probably another year deal
Harrison - loan return
Beto - sell
Dcl - new chapter elsewhere I think. An attractive free for someone.
Broja - loan return

That's a hell of a list of players to replace even half of it.

I'd rather have a championship player willing to run through walls for their shot at the PL than a journey man who's played at the top and trying to get a last hurrah or pay pay day !

Only thing with the players in championship challenging sides is, the money they gain from promotion is so huge they will not be willing to sell in January without huge fees involved.

anyone remember Traore when Bobby Brown Shoes was in charge. He managed 1 goal lasted 60 minutes and never played for us again

Profile courtesy of TW

Link

Martinez is my least favourite manager of this century as he seemed determined to undo all the good foundations that Moyes had laid.

Lukaku
Delboy
Barry
McCarthy

The development of Stones and Barkley and transformation of Oviedo pre injury (a seminal moment in the downturn for me) to get a record breaking points total, 2 semi finals and football not seen since the holy trinity whilst still hindered by the Moyes tissue paper defence spending effectively 5 quid in relative terms was extraordinary.

I shall retire from proceedings because I'm about to kick off.

But, of course, Raymond you could.

You remind me of that clown Ryan Holroyd who the other day posted that Everton fans were the most 'clueless 'of all, having himself posted some 'clueless'posts on the same thread.

31 Million this summer! Wow, we are in the money! That will buy us a proven striker's leg.

But what the individual who first posted that was unable to realise is that we will actually have to give salaries to anyone we buy who might replace them! They might even be higher.

You couldn't make that up.

31M, 20M, 11M, 7M, 2.5M (we might be able to snap up a first division left back).

For whatever reason, I think Martinez, totally lost his way after the great football we played in his initial first season, and after signing those three very good young players, and the experienced Gareth Barry, I’m not sure he was ever successful in the transfer market again?

He deserved better after taking us to a much higher level, but just like the man who had left for Manchester United, they both had to suffer a chairman who was an absolute conman.

I read an article on the echo website before and was starting to get a little bit excited when I read the name Embollo, because I think he’s a very good player, and then I got to the end of the article and thought, why have they even printed this?

GB is still playing at 43 for Hurstpierpoint in some regional Sussex league (near Mark?). I think he was born down there, Hastings or somewhere.

I think that GB has manager/coach written all over him.

Callum McGregor would do a job for us at a decent price. (Celtic have had three goals disallowed by the same player!)

Also introducing his tippy tippy football for that second season.

His first season was phenomenal though, played some great football, will give him that.

Got my rod out, waiting for a nibble.

With the players they had, just like when he managed Belgium he underachieved.

Same with Lookman against City, four minutes.

Compared to the competition, our finances now are much, much weaker than when Moyes was first manager. Signings like Baines, Lescott, Jagielka, Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga, Distin, Yakubu, Beattie, Jelavic and Johnson would all now be £20m to £40m signings.

An ageing backline? jags, Baines and Coleman were in pretty fine fetal, it was just Kenwright had no dough.

Martinez had a good first window, initially sold well - but later it was pretty poor.

Martinez went straight back to Wigan and spent (if you include wages) £30M on Konem, Alcaraz and Macca.

And if he wasn't given another £70-odd million to spend, how did McGeady, Stanek, Besic, Lukaku, Holgate, Funes Mori, Lennon, Robles, Deulofeu and Tarashaj (to name a few) get here?

I know we sold to buy, but don't we do that now? £100M on players he chose should not be sneezed at.

I suppose we have to hope that Moyes, who I think would not have sanctioned that spending spree if he had had any say, gets adequate funds from TFG. Let's hope so. They have not had the best of starts, although it tickles me when someone posts that the evidence for their business acumen was bringing Moyes in so quick even though the same poster did not want Moyes!

The higher the level, the more the game becomes about making clever little angles, and this is where Barry excelled when you consider he had no pace whatsoever.

I remember being at Sunderland for a Sunday game early into Martinez’s, second season, with the fixture coming after a game in Europe, and by the end of the game, a one- all draw, I had already come to the conclusion that Roberto, was gonna concentrate on the cups more than the league (something I never really had a problem with - considering we hadn’t won anything except being best of the fucking rest, for nearly twenty years) but unfortunately for him, once we started going down the table, everything changed, and it wasn’t long before everybody felt that we were going backwards

The Bring Me Sunshine Xmas video and pick it up from there again and make better decisions in all departments!

My apologies, it was Kenwright, but Alcaraz was a free, and the two centre-backs were Jagielka, 31, and Distin, 36.

This is an over-simplification but this is what they were trying to find.

Moyes: 22- to 26-year-olds, 100+ games under their belt in a decent league, players who look to Everton as a step up.

Martinez: highly talented U22-year-olds, less experience but higher potential. Players who look to Everton as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

I'm hoping this summer we go for a mix of the two to stabilise the side and add a touch of genuine quality (even if that quality is yet to mature). It will take some wheeling and dealing though, given financial constraints.

We fucked qualifying for the champions league up after losing at home to Palace, and I suppose the only thing that was missing from that team, was the massive thing that Joe Royle, instilled into his dogs of war, imo.

Joe Royle instilled massive belief and I actually loved that dogs of war terminology, because I hadn’t seen it out of the players in Royal Blue, since Howard Kendall left Everton for Spain.

What did Lukaku, say he told the Everton players. I don’t think there is much difference between a lot of our players and a lot of the Chelsea team, I have just left?

The difference was that they had belief and a winning mentality, whereas our players had long come to accept coming 5/6/7th, as being successful.

We were fighting relegation until about a week before the FA Cup final against United, under Joe Royle, but I bet you his half time team talk that day at Wembley, wasn’t about United throwing the kitchen sink at us during the second half?

Perhaps, just perhaps, we may be great in 10 years? Well, we look back much further!

We know what happened in the past and, with all fingers tightly crossed, we hope to learn from what we know.

Not this weekend though – I'll be drinking Harvey's at the Amex whilst we post another surprise win on the jumped-up no-mark twats!

Hello mon ami. Re Broja, it has already been reported that Chelsea will not currently recall Broja, because that would mean that we would then have an open loan slot available.

I bet you a bag of beer nuts that, as soon as the transfer window shuts, they will recall Broja to oversee his rehab and recovery. I can't ever recall Chelsea doing us a favour, remember Zouma...

Kevin M [169]

I believe you mon ami, but I've not heard anything about streamlining, recruitment or dismissal yet? Also, we're only at day 34 of the 'usual' 100-day Operational Analysis that TFG do with newly acquired assets. I think it will be a case of suck it and see till then?

Good points in both your views, which I agree with.

A lot of it will relate to the financial affairs and commercial aspects of the club – even stuff to do with the footballing side could relate to things like scouting networks, use of data analytics, training and development at U6 to U14 level etc.

They don't really need a 100-day review to tell them we need to strengthen the first-team squad. They knew that before they bought us – and who the realistic targets were within our budget.

Yep, I'm sure that TFG will surprise us pleasantly (I sincerely hope!) and not do an AS Roma on us!?

It has been reported that TFG think we have some excellent staff (other than Colin Chong, and I presume by allusion James Maryinak, our Interim Chief Finance Officer. Whom, was important in the negotiations regards the previously outstanding Stadium Interest payment PSR issue.) I can't think of any in a senior management role who they could mean? Mind you I don't know the club infrastructure and make up intimately.

Hopefully, once their analysis is done and dusted, they'll replace the administrative 'dead wood', the slippers and pipe brigade and the nepotistic appointments by Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale; and then, we would hopefully employ top quality professionals.

It's going to take time to steady the ship, before altering course to a much more successful destination.

Onwards and upwards, tempered with patience and fatalism (pragmatism?)

he Friedkin Group will take a focused approach, one that is driven by innovation and business experience.

Our long-term vision is to harness the passion of fans and great qualities of the Club to realise Everton's full potential. Our goals are clear:

- Strengthening the men's first-team squad through thoughtful and strategic investment.

- Cultivating home-grown superstars through Everton's Academy.

- Fostering a distinct on-pitch and commercial strategy for the women's team.

- Respecting the Club's traditions and keeping Everton at the heart of the community.

- Maximising the potential of the new stadium through long-term commercial partnerships and events that benefit the city of Liverpool.

Also, it would demonstrate that TFG will not be throwing money at emergency buys this window.

I genuinely could see the sense of taking Willian on, if, and only if, the costs are right for the club. He could add something to this squad for sure. But would Moyes want him?

Going to your point regards the first-team and potential targets, wasn't that why they shipped out Mourinho? He kept buying his 'favoured players', ie, ageing stars, with little resale value, and high wages. All in the hope of getting in the Champions League; which Jose couldn't do, and he wanted to spend even more money after the Europa League Final defeat.

I believe that was when TFG and Jose fell out, and went their separate ways. Please correct me if I got that wrong.

I think Barry meant something completely different to starting a game of football! 🥊 🥊🥊

Also Edwards of Sporting, he has the potential to excite though I have read he has gone off the boil there. Could be another Moyes masterstroke, resurrecting someone's career. I am desperate for some signings.

I remain fixed in my view that, if we hadn't got rid of him, we would have been relegated.

I remember well his words of wisdom

“We don't practice defending corners and free kicks because you don't score from them.”

He smiled and said, “I’m being serious when I tell you it’s not even that busy today”

He elaborated and said the club, was completely over staffed, and if the club got serious owners, then he believed the first thing they would probably do is half the staff.

I bet you if you got a private detective, you would find that most people employed by the club, have been introduced into the club by one of their mate’s, I said, and after explaining myself again, he just nodded his head.

I'm still hoping the Nuamah chase might come to something as he look to have a lot of potential. Edwards from Sporting could be a canny move for £8M but I suspect that one is just agent talk.

Isaac decided to leave Everton after seeing that he wasn't part of the first-team plans and joined Standard Leige in Belgium. Maybe his ambition is paying off, we never had a sell-on deal for any future transfer deal and just got a compensation pay off when he left, think it was around £400,000.

Despite approaches from Everton and Italian clubs, RB Leipzig are ready to seal the agreement as @Plettigoal @schfer_g reported.

Still over a week left - but would be nice to see some movement.

Ipswich have brought in quality attackers in Enciso and Philogene. They are going for it.

Nice step up for each of Cannon and Price. They have obviously dropped down a level to get the games they needed and hard work is paying off. Good luck to them.

John # 229. Steijn is doing really well and should have earned a step up.

I like the cut of that Dan Neil. A definite Moyes type player. Like you said though, given Sunderland's push for promotion, it's unlikely they will part with him in this window. One for the summer.

My view is, if we do sign anyone, it will be a player of this profile. Tall, physical, midfielder.

Also Kyle Walker-Peters, because you can never have enough right-backs.

Other rumors going around that they will announce to the NYSE next week that they will be over. As they are on the NYSE, they will have to announce any FFP issues publicly.

When you consider that is already a substantial discount on the £25M numbnuts paid for him 18 months ago, we're obviously in for another haircut, especially as he has done so little to justify, nevermind boost that valuation.

Just another miserable transfer to add to the already massive pile of dross we seem to go on suffering. [I'm starting to feel a bit like Don Alexander now… maybe I should slot in a reference to Bill Knewright at this point?]

The surprises of Moyes in his first days back highlighted by

Myself #147: Moyes's surprise at the amount of Staff.

Ted #152: Moyes is taken aback by the amount of treatment tables.

Simon #161: How many Staff Moyes recognised from his previous tenure.

Tony #221: Who, on visiting Dyche at Finch Farm, commented on how choca the place was with staff. Dyche told him the place was overstaffed and a serious new owner would cut the staff by half.

This is against a background of years of PSR breaches and transfer cuts and loaning out most of the academy. In my case, on investigating the structure of Everton, I was amazed at the layer upon layer of staff, all with Titles, thanks in part to Barrett-Baxendale's affliction in that area.

But one area that stood out, confirmed by Barrett-Baxendale, was Thelwell's appointment of 32 staff, which Denise thought was strategic progress. If a 100-day review is taking place, I hope that Thewell's area of responsibility is looked at.

Though Moyes appears surprised I believe that his appointment was looked at favourably by those within the Club advising the new board, because he may help maintain the status quo. Dyche did not seem to be in a position to do anything, since it was the regime who employed him he dealt with.

Moyes has a different regime to deal with, it will be interesting to see will he have the stomach to favour much-needed change and accountability regarding Staff and Staffing Levels. Even more interesting will be his take on the performance of the Director of Football.

I think regards Beto... Rather than trying to recoup money this window, as reported at a heavily discounted rate, unless absolutely necessary for additions to the squad, I think we'd be better looking for a six-month loan at the start of next season, to give him a run of games and hopefully build up his confidence.

However, we did this with Ellis Simms, when he was on loan, he did really well. (Hibs wasn't it?)

Then, when he came back, he started to get splinters sitting on the pine again. So, when we did play him, he was rusty again.

BTW Michael

Regards the link I posted in the Deloitte thread, which you appreciated.

I would do this in all my articles, unfortunately, when you try and insert a thread in the article composer it freezes the screen. I've tried it in Chrome (latest ver), AVG Secure Browser (latest ver) and Firefox (latest ver).

This issue may need looking at by yourself or Lyndon?

Also, with regard to McNeil, he is probably going under the knife. It always amazes me with the wonders of modern technology and the so-called medical experts, why it takes over a month to decide he needs surgery.

He was also gutted that we didn't get Philogene.

From what I have heard, Finch Farm has been a major part of the problem regards the performance of the first team, and the rest and recuperation of players, and the treatment of the injured.

I'm still surprised at how many players actually get injured in training at Finch Farm? If I remember correctly, Moyes's teams got injuries via actual games, but very few training injuries. (I may well be wrong?)

Ever since seeing pre-season fitness testing and the pre-season gym and fitness training, it is one area that I genuinely hope is 'pulled up, root and all', and completely remodelled with staff who are proficient enough to train, hone and maintain the players' fitness and health, as well as employing the best medical staff we can.

Just like Liverpool did when they poached the doctor from Arsenal, who was widely considered to be the best medico in the league.

Guess who brought him to Arsenal, that 'it'll never work here idiot' Arsene Wenger!

Jerome, I think we just have to accept that, even after the 100-day review, TFG are going to have their work cut out to right-size and modernise the club to where it should be in the 21st Century.

Good wishes mon ami, and I've really been enjoying your posts for a long while now!

Everton are the only Premier League team that have Rest and Recovery Regime. All other teams have a High Performance regime which is orientated to building resilience through pushing performance.

The problem with Rest and Recovery is that it allows a structure to build up to treat injuries and by its nature encourage players to get treatment and in some cases allow players to avoid training. If training is not part of the recovery regime, rehabilitation often experiences a hamstring setback. Hence Moyes's surprise at so many treatment benches. He straight away thinks "Who is available to play for the first team?"

Rest and Recovery is the parasite that is feeding off the School of Science. There are remnants of the School of Science still there, hence Everton's Premier League survival.

Hopefully TFG will get more accountability and performance measurement into the School of Science and rid Everton of these drags in performance that have hampered Everton for years. They continue to think that survival in the Premier League to keep the gravy training is the only objective. Financially, this argument has been shown to be false.

I love the optimistic use of the phrase, 'School of Science'! When it comes to training and fitness, Everton haven't been at the races, probably since Moyes's tenure, and maybe even possibly as far back when Harvey was coach?

As a fitness professional, hence my late-night musings at times. I've trained several types of sportspeople, including cyclists, badminton players, rowers, weight-lifters, body-builders, footballers, rugby players, athletes (various track and field disciplines), boxers and several more to boot.

The only time I've used rest and recuperation (which may well be a misnomer for either myself or Everton's training staff), is post rehab, when you are building an athlete's strength and or stamina back up post injury or long-term illness.

Performance training, high or otherwise, is always preferable to maximise and maintain an athlete's ability. The main thing about performance training, is that it should be tailored specifically for each individual. Yes, there are general exercises for specific sports; however, to improve an individual, you have to use 'specificity'.

As you say, hopefully TFG and whomever is appointed or remains as DoF, work together to review and restructure all our 'footballing' backroom teams.

Jerome, I had been thinking about this since TFG were first mooted as being potential new owners. A question for you: Do you think that TFG could tap into the much more advanced American Sports and Medical Science, and parlay that into the Everton system? Or rather, completely revamp our backroom teams?

Please don't mention the gravy train, that is a major beef of mine! 😉hehe

Finch Farm to me has always been a mystery but before FF we had Bellefield (and Kenwright, for years by then!).

I've posted before about a match against Stoke in the 3rd round of the FA cup at their horrendous place in 2001. This is the TW report on it at the time - see the similarities today and many seasons since;

"With some of the recent pressure removed from Walter Smith's old and sagging shoulders by the recent if somewhat ambiguous statement by Bill Kenwright, a slightly less desperate Everton line-up took the field at the Britannia Stadium before ITV's feature-match cameras. You can't have helped wondering why they were there... other than to of course witness another great FA Cup upset.

And the chances seemed high � at least before kick-off, with Everton suffering a run of five straight league defeats and eight first-teamers out injured. And Stoke flying high at the top of the Second Division... but it wasn't to be.

Everton contrived to play their current brand of abysmally poor football, with the same litany of basic errors that are seen each week: poor use of possession; dreadful balls out of defence (straight to the opposition); lousy passing in general; limited movement off the ball; rare use of the wings; little penetration in attack; woeful delivery from corners... and so on, and so forth...

However, it was enough to contain a plucky but clearly limited Stoke City side who tried hard and often outplayed the laborious Everton midfield, especially in the first half. Stoke appeared to have a good height advantage in the area but probably gave the match away by playing only one true striker. They crossed the ball in reasonably well from the flanks, but never created any half-decent chances, with Simonsen awake to everything that came his way � including a few scary mistakes by Xavier!

Everton's own lumbering giant, Duncan Ferguson, looked fractionally more useful that he has done recently, and deserved a goal for a lovely turn and shot in the first half that was deflected onto the post. Jesper Blomqvist had the same post in his sights a little later but drove hard the wrong side of it.

Everton looked slightly better in the second half and it paid off when Ferguson was awarded a dubious free-kick for falling over on the Dee... It looked like the usual Everton muddle as six players argued the honour while Stoke built their wall. But a short sideways ball caused the end of the wall to break early and an excellent drive from Alan Stubbs curled around the remaining bricks and past the outstretched arms of the keeper. Such joy for the 6,000 long-suffering Evertonians packed in the stand behind: the first Everton goal in over 7 hours of depressing football.

The goal livened the game up for a while as Stoke tried to press Everton harder, but they were toothless in attack. And Paul Gascoigne was starting to enjoy himself after having a quiet first half. Everton held off the Potters and even looked like adding a second, Weir, Moore, Blomqvist and Gazza all coming very close.

In the end, one goal was enough and the slavering wolves of the press who had circled the ground, baying for an upset that would (in their eyes) increase the pressure Walter Smith, went away empty-handed while the Everton ball was placed firmly in the hat for the 4th Round draw."

The club doctor of Stoke is a good friend of mine and as such I was his guest. He took me to the changing rooms and treatment room as the teams arrived. Everton had months earlier signed Stoke's physio, a personal friend of the doctor, and we all three had a natter. The physio said he'd been taken aback by the primitive facilities at Bellefield in comparison to 2nd division Stoke's, was appalled by the lassitude afforded high-earning players at our club as they feigned injury (he cited Campbell, Pistone and Ferguson by name whilst alluding to others of the same ilk) and expressed his regret that he'd been beguiled by Kenwright.

So, on this thread there's speculation about dubious goings-on, still now, at the club, OUR club, centred on FF.

Moyes lived and personally massively prospered for years under Kenwright and his buffoonery in appointing ass-kissing Everton players to coaching roles they had little or no aptitude for - and OUR club failed, again and again, ending up as a laughing stock in the world-wide world of football so-called "professionals".

Friedkin, if he didn't know it before, has taken on a vast challenge in even trying to free FF of the decades long football knotweed that still thrives there.

Everton should have been relegated like those that competed around them and were relegated.Everton were able to pull together when it matters finding the performance that was necessary.But it was only when the pressure arose that they were able to do so.The basic framework was there.But when the pressure was off it was back to self preservation..

TFG are Professional Management based on Total Quality Management and in their due diligence they would have set what they found against Total Quality Management measurements This will further be analysed in their 100 days review.

It is my belief that they will formulate a Proper Strategic .Nothing like Barret Baxendales load of rubbish.Planing objectives and apply measurement targets for all areas of the business.The standards will be set by their existing knowledge of running their other Clubs. There is no way the existing wage percentage at Everton will be acceptable.They will find what works in the Club and will build from that.

They won't come in a confrontiational manner, but will effective change all areas of the Club.In the case of non footballing areas change will be immediate, because they know those areas

In the football side change will begin in the of field footballing side.I am not familiar with the core footballing of their other Clubs,but TFG will know the differences and will act were Everton are not up the scratch.

I do think that High Performance rather than Rest and Recovery will come to the fore under TFG. It was from Australia Rules football expertise that it was introduced into the Premier League and I would be surprised if it was not applied in American Sport and would hazard a guess that that is were High

Performance originated from.

Simon there is a fundamental core within Everton which has maintained Premier League status.It is that that has to be build on.I call it the School of Silence .Like good things it will stand up to Professional Management scrutiny and will be recognised and built on.

Lots of names thrown around by the usual nonsense-peddling sites, I only check about 5 times a day! Brobbey is an interesting name that's come up but is on West Ham's radar apparently, strong lad but 5ft 11in so not sure how he'd cope up against the likes of Sven Botman, week-in & week-out?

Dewsbury-Hall is another but I can't see it this window, definitely one we should be considering for the summer though, we are currently well stocked in central midfield, a good Gana replacement though.

Moyes padded for time in the presser when asked about this, citing not having had enough time to go through the options. However, it also made me wonder if they are still making a play for Thelwell's replacement? Leaving it bloody late in the window if they are. I for one hope he gets a contract extension.

Players with “knocks” don’t take weeks and months to recover. Andres Gomes proved that.

I think it’s a mix of professional incompetence (medical staff) and chicanery by some of the players (AVDM springs to mind).

We need a complete clear out of all remaining vestiges of the kenshite/Moshiri era. I’m not sure if TFG are the people to do this. They seem to be quite nonchalant about things at Goodison.

I’ve finally seen the first link to Kieran Tierney, which I think would be ideal for us and especially Moyes. He’s out of contract in the summer though so maybe it’s a case of waiting until then.

Zinchenko is available for sale but apparently no-one is interested. I’ve not read any links or even speculation over fee and wage, but I’d see him as a potential value-for-money signing. He’s played left-back, left-wing and CAM at a high level.

I also like the idea of Chukwuemeka. He has a lot to prove and lacks experience but is a real talent.

The other main link seems to be selling Beto and signing Nuamah, but that mainly comes from the less reputable, click-bait type sites. There’s also noise about Marcus Edwards, who again is an exciting player, but the Echo specifically said they understand we don’t have an interest in him.

I’d be looking at 2 creative options right now (maybe one more if we sell Beto), then the big rebuild in the summer where we’ll need around 8-10 new players and quality ‘Bosman’ deals like Tierney will be vital.

It's an incurable sickness, I'm afraid!

Good shout on Zinchenko.

I would love us to be trying to buy the guy from Wolves, Cunha, sadly out of our price bracket, but he's the type of ZNZo 10 game changer that makes the difference.

Oh to be back in the world where we could be linked with top players..

More bodies required and an interesting week ahead.

(How we would have been gobsmacked at his then lousiness!!!)

The best signings for us won't be available now – we'd be much better waiting for summer. But there's a few – like Chukwuemeka, Ferguson, Fellows and maybe Nuamah – who could be good longer-term signings.

With Calvert-Lewin now out for a few weeks, we need to get a striker in for sure, I reckon we can manage elsewhere with players coming back from injury.

I can see Martin Sherif and Tim Iroegbunam both starting for the U21s on Monday night and then being called into the first team training sessions for the remainder of the week.

We could always recall Maupay, not to use of course, but to warm up on the touchline and give the crowd some pantomime moments, that would get the fans off their seats and let out some vented frustration.

Anyway, let's see how Sherif does on Monday night and hopefully get a striker in as well.

Three big home games on the bounce now, our season could rest on getting that striker in sooner rather than later.

First things first: would he join us even if we can afford him?

He looks to be a very good player so probably out of our reach at the moment?

So we could likely have afforded him. Not now though, even if Wolves get relegated.

We can sign Tariq Lamptey on a pre-contract today.

His current contract expires on 30 June 2025.

I'd be surprised if Moyes risks another Dutch forward, after his Drenthe and Van der Meyde experience.

I like Lamptey and a good shout from many for him on a pre-contract for next season, give us chance to really have a look at Patterson and ship him out if he is not up to it. I don't feel he has had the chance to show it consistently for various reasons.

Not sure Lamptey looked like he'd want to sign for us based on his behaviour at the end of the game, him and Tarks aren't going for a beer anytime soon 😂.

So let's keep it realistic here, Brobbey is a possibility, as is Igor Jesus and the other Brazillian lad, Yuri Alberto. All talented and hopefully keen to ply their trade in the PL, signing ANY striker without PL experience is always a gamble and an expensive one at that.

My wishlist of plausible targets is Igor Jesus and Tom Fellows, though Nuamah shows real promise and pace and I think has the potential to shine like Outtara has at Bournemouth. Lamptey on a pre-contract for next season. Send Broja back and get Dewsbury-Hall on a loan with obligation to buy. As much as I like Mangala, I think this lad at Chelsea has a higher potential.

Striker wise it’s one of the hardest positions to reinforce and will probably depend on severity of Dom’s injury and also fitness if Chermiti who was meant to be returning soon.

I’m pleased Beto will get a run in the team. Not the most graceful but can be effective and should benefit from a couple of starts in a row. Bit of a Victor Anichebe throwback.

We cannot afford genuinely good strikers who could come in immediately and score 15 goals or more. These are very few and far between anyway.

We can afford players of Beto's standard - 4 to 10 goal a season strikers. Brobbey, Yuri Alberto and Igor Jesus all look of this standard or thereabouts. Not sure these take us any further forward.

We can also afford talented u20 players (or older underused subs at Champions League clubs) who could after a season or two develop into a 10 goal plus striker. Evan Ferguson is in this category - but would cost about £30m? Can we afford that?

In summer, we might (dreaming a little) even be able to afford Delap or Giminez of Feyenoord - if no Champions League clubs come in for them. Lots of other lower cost options will be available too.

But we won't be able to sign a genuinely good striker in summer if we waste money on another Beto standard striker on January.

The latest injuries leave us down to bare bones, a plan A with no plan B. If Beto gets injured, we have no one with Premier League experience up front. Can we risk it?

It would be nice to hear from him, or his son, about his immediate plans for the club. Or at least for them to show an active interest in the day-to-day goings on.

What say you, Mr Gaynes?

I have it on good authority that he's just waiting to exchange contracts on a bijou townhouse in Dane Street.

He would be just what we need IMO.

Not sure how many goals he'd get at Premier League level – but he seems to have more ability than Beto.

They should now be a little more comfortable in looking at 1 or 2 small deals, the urgency of which increased yesterday with 2 more apparently long-term injuries.

PSR has deflated the market across Europe which may assist us in getting a young striker at a reasonable price. Additionally, it will likely also mean there will be no Branthwaite bids at anywhere near our valuation price, so it's increasingly likely we may keep him.

Delighted to see the level of fight in the team the last few games under Moyes; and though we can never be sure, I highly doubt 6 points would have been harvested from Villa, Spurs and Brighton under Dyche.

It looks like Moyes has bought a sense of calm to the dressing room and, while it's early days, I'm hoping we will get to 30 points soonish, which – looking at the bottom 3 teams – may well be enough this season.

Two wins can easily turn into two defeats and we are right back in the relegation mix. If TFG want to guarantee Premier League survival, we need to loosen the purse strings now! No more arseing around.

His track record eg Harrison, el garzi, Vinagre, Cody, Beto, Borja (known for being injured), Maupay etc…. Hasn’t been great has it?

Just a question; if Mangala is 'broken' for a fair while, would we be able to return him, or is he a loan with purchase deal?

Otherwise we could open up an over-seas loan slot, maybe?

PS It's a shame that DCL got injured as 4-4-2 and MSN were both reporting that the skunks were being serious about making an offer for him... damn and blast it!

Re Mangala's loan, wasn't there a fella who read up on all the loan regulations and posted them here after Broja was injured? Can't remember who it was.... Silas somebody, or Sid...

What do they say about this?

I've just been looking at the two issues I raised. No news on Mangala, from any source I can find. However, @Physio on X (who is pretty good at general observational diagnosis') seems to think that DCL's injury is either a Grade I or Grade II strain, not a tear or what not, which is 2-4 weeks absence. So hopefully, he'll be back up to speed in 5-6 weeks 🤞

Just looked at the Mangala loan; it was a straight season long loan. As per Broja, it now depends on Mangala's injury (or length of absence) and if he's done for a long period, then it all depends on the loan agreement. I can't see Lyon taking on his wages, so hopefully we've insured against injury with Mangala..?

If you're hoping for Dan Friedkin to say something then you'll be waiting a Long time.

The Roma fans complain that the family say nothing and don't communicate with fans at all.

I suspect the new CEO will say more than DF ever will.

Ryan #283, I believe you are exactly right. That terse signoff on Dyche is about as expressive as the Friedkins ever get. To the best of my knowledge Dan Friedkin hasn't given an interview of any kind since 2020.

Also it takes ages to employ top level CEO's.

I guess the point I am trying to make is, PL experience is key, if not you have to play to the strengths of what you've got, Forest do that very well with Woods. Moyes has to get a tune out of whoever plays that lone role but we need someone asap!

I'll put my thoughts on grading next to each A - F, where A - F is Excellent, Very good, Good, Average, Poor, Failure! (L) = Loanee

Tarkowski Summer '22 B
McNeil Summer '22 B/C
Garner Summer '22 C
Gana Gueye Summer '22 B/A
Maupay Summer '22 E/F

Young Summer '23 C/B
Chermiti Summer '23 ??
Harrison (L) Summer '23 C
Beto Summer '23 C

Harrison (L) Summer '24 D
Iroegbunam Summer '24 C/B
Ndiaye Summer '24 B
Lindstrøm (L) Summer '24 C/B
O'Brien Summer '24 C/B
Begovic Summer '24 ??
Broja (L) Summer '24 C/D - Injured when loaned
Mangala Summer '24 C/B

When there is a double entry i.e. C/B, the first letter is the letter the player first achieved, with the second letter being what they have achieved as the season as progressed.

A ?? means that we haven't seen enough to judge them properly yet.

So other than Maupay as a definite failure when bought as a second striker for a manager who was sacked, Harrison who has been played on his wrong wing for the majority of his time at Everton, and Broja who was a calculated needs must risk, Thelwell's record, in my honest opinion, stacks up fairly well given the restrictions he has operated under.

I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on him? Or if I missed anyone?

Good assessment

Given funds etc I’d class Ndiaye as A

A lot of the others are subjective but I think Garner and Mangala both deserve Bs

Yes there's been mistakes, but if you are buying in the used or damaged goods section, you are going to get a few who don't fit !

Many say he will be gone when his contracts up, but I'm of the opposite opinion and believe he's actually one of the reasons we have managed to get through all the financial mess, and he should be given a shot with a few quid to play with.
I'd be really intrigued to see what he can do with budget.
Onanas deal was a clue to how he's done good for us.
A player bought 2 years and sold for profits.

People say look at Brighton or Bournemouth they find players
They are easily out spending us, give him some cash, without having to sell too and me ma see some gems arrive

Personally I see Thelwell as having done a pretty good job under difficult circumstances. Would be curious to see who he targets when increased financial stability hopefully enables us to land our 1st/2nd choices rather than 4th/5th.

I don’t understand any criticism of him. He’s been doing his job with both hands tied behind his back, hopping on one leg and a blindfold on. There’s no way we can make a fair judgement of whether he’s the right man to take us forward, we’ll just have to see what the Friedkins decide.

TFG won't be splashing the cash, especially if the Club is to remain compliant with financial controls, so he may be just the man to continue in the role for them. Hopefully, the budget will at least progress to tight from non-existent.

The lack of signings and quality and timing of the incoming players may have had an effect on our poor start to the season, which has put us on the back foot all season.

Whether Thelwell can recruit well under new ownership and new management, is yet to be seen, but one thing is for sure is that we cannot keep repeating mistakes of the past. Maupay being a prime example of that.

Two sixers, an eight and a ten, sounds like something you might have ordered from the chippy.

Richarlison definitely wants out of Spurs, but I very much doubt it will happen in the next week.

I realise that I had missed Onana, who was a 'brilliant' buy in respect that he fulfilled a role, even though Dyche dropped him. Yet we realised about £13.4m from his sale, and got his wages off the books.

Also, I missed off a couple of loanees in Arnie Danjuma, not played much because he didn't fit i) Dyche's system, and ii) Dyche wanted players who defended and attacked, not just attack, and I think he was seen as a luxury.

Then we had Mykolenko's backup, another loanee, Rúben Vinagre who wasn't given a chance by Dyche. However, it must be said that Myko probably had his second best season for us when Vinagre was here.

Ben [290] I was trying to be as objective as possible; as even our better signings like Tarks, Ndiaye, and Garner would struggle to get a bench spot on a top 8 team. Yet, as you say ultimately it is all subjective.

David [291] I agree with your sentiments entirely regards Thelwell. I honestly don't think his hit to miss ratio is poor at all, if anything, his record not even taking the situation were in, has been pretty good.

Hopefully between Kevin and David we may, with TFGs backing, be able to bring in a couple (2-3) of players before the window shuts?
Also remember, quite a few of those signings that the 3Bs (AFCB, B&HA & Bees) have made were either 1st/2nd choice targets for Thelwell, but the club wasn't attractive enough, would you sign for a relegation threatened team, and/or we didn't have the funds to sign them.

Just a few weeks back, and for a few months further too, the majority (I.e. the usual 80-20 rule) of posters were denigrating Thelwell for spending circa £18m on O'Brien, a centre back, that never play's!

It was stated. that when he played in preseason, he looked clumsy and hasn't got a left foot, useless going forward, against Roma, he looked very poor, a waste of money when we needed x, y and z etc etc, and yet, within two games, some clear instruction and some coaching (I presume?) He is now seen as a fixture going forward, maybe even a Tarkowski replacement!?

The other point you made, is that Thelwell has been having to go down his shopping list options primarily of what I described @ 301.

It would be interesting to see how he does, if given a decent purse to go and get the players he actually wants either for first team addition, development, or buy to sell.

However, that will depend if his services are retained?

At Roma, TFG an their DoF equivalent went their separate ways, immediately after the January window. So, in that vein, if Thelwell is still here by early to mid-March, I would assume that he'll be here till the summer at least. Maybe however, working with someone else; or even with scouting and recruitment heads working directly with Moyes?

Who knows... However, it is going to be an interesting seven days or so till the window does close.

Re Chermiti, I looked on a couple of site, they usually say "It's not days, it's weeks (Jan 7th)" Yet, I've also read on one site it may well be 1-2 months, because "his injury is notoriously problematic to come back from." Yet the exact injury seems to be RHS Vastus Medialis or his inner thigh (adductor)

Mike [296] The criticism I was referring to in the main, was from other sites, and general feedback on SocMed. I think it is nearly insane to call out Thelwell for the Clubs and Dyche's shortcomings when it comes to player acquisition and performance.

Wasn't it widely reported that Dyche turned down EIGHT possible transfers last summer, because they weren't the players he wanted?

Anyhow, bygones...

Mind you for Thelwell's first 20 months at the club had Kenwright there, thankfully by that time, Moshiri had stopped interfering!

The other thing I forgot to mention, is what a great job Thelwell has done in loaning players out, until either he managed to sell them, or their contracts expired. Even selling players like Simms, Broadhead and Cannon, who people would have preferred to keep, has meant we've managed to avoid this years PSR and will probably allow an incoming for the first January window since 2021!

Mal [298] Some good points made again.

I think the poor preseason and start to the season was more the after effects of the Euros i.e. Pickford's poor form in the first 4-5 games, Branthwaite being injured, Tarks playing thru a back strain, Myko not being fully fit, Tim not having a 90 min engine, too many players getting injured early doors, Seamus, Garner, Chermiti, Dwight was out for two weeks before he had his knee problem, an ever changing RB situation, the sickness bug in September, DCL wanting away and not wanting to play for Dyche, and the obviously counter productive preseason training that wrecked most of the team, from which we only started seeing proper 90 minute performance come late October early November... Plus the same old Dyche tactics being easy to counter, as everyone knew what's coming. We only beat poor teams, and a Fulham side that thought they'd won the game!

I like your idea, however, I doubt very much, from an objective point of view that Richi will be coming back to us. The reason being his new wage level, his recent injury record and his age.

Yet, I think we still have enough up front to challenge, even without Dom.

You could play a traditional 9-10-11-7 with Beto, Doucoure, Ndiaye and Lindstrøm; or change it up a little bit if you have more faith in a couple of players?

nb I bet this is how Davey goes... I'd love to see Armstrong start at 10, even if he gets pulled at 60 or HT for Doucs (if necessary?)

Ndiaye at 9, Lindstrøm at 10, Harrison at 11, and Patterson at 7

Garner and Gueye sitting in, with the (now) usual back four of Myko, Jarrad, Tarks and Jake.

However, we may well get reinforcements in yet, and it will always be in the eye of the manager how we setup.

Realistically and at best, from what I've read we'd get DCL back in approx 6 weeks, same or slightly longer for Chermiti up to 8 weeks (or longer) and forget about Broja. Unless Chelsea have a young striker they'd swap for Broja? I know the media have linked us with Chilwell, Dewsbury-Hall and Chukwuemeka. I know we need a creative MF, but if they had a striker it may be worth it? However, I've also read that they are reluctant to recall Broja and allow us to strengthen.

Another option, is if Mangala is out long-term, then try and return him and get an overseas loan in?

I think what you say about improving the squad, rather than growing the squad is what is slowing down any deals. As you say it is notoriously hard to buy well in January, due to a lack of quality and inflated Winter prices...

Richi isn't going anywhere this window, because I've just seen that Spurs have THIRTEEN injured players on theirs books; and the next worst hit is Bournemouth with NINE, and we've got SEVEN injured...

EPL Injury Table

I think I’d like to see us go for Ferguson on a permanent deal if it’s plausible, get seamus and O’Brien to have a word in his ear.

1. stop buying players from Premier League clubs (they are the most overpriced in world football in terms of wages and fees in world football); and

2. stop buying injury prone / older (ie over 26) deteriorating assets - unless on extremely favourable financial terms (i.e free or small fee and modest wages)

Evan Ferguson is probably the only exception to point 1 (or low cost players plucked from rival academies and benches).

There should never be any exceptions to point 2 (which rules out Richarlison).

Failing to do this will see us further deteriorating in quality compared with our rivals, and flirting with relegation and financial ruin.

Good pros like Phil Neville, Distin, Gareth Barry. Even van dijk is a huge player.

The other issue on our buying, was we were often bidding against ourself for players that had no real character or no real Premier league differential. They were ok, but had hit the ceiling in terms of career- Sigurdsson, Schneirderlin, Maupay, etc.

He's been injured and out of form and the most likely scenario is probably that he takes a few weeks at least to get up to speed and then maybe bags a few goals towards the end of the season at which point we have to start the striker search again and we have done Brighton (hopefully one of our rivals for next season) a big favour by bringing him back to form.

We'd be better off aiming for Tel from Bayern or even giving opportunity to one of our own youth players such as Chermiti or Sherif at a push. This is where ideally the recruitment team have to earn their corn by finding a young prospect in need of game time who would suit the PL and Moyes' tactics. Although Moyes has clashed with DOFs in the past (notably at West Ham) and is on the record saying he would prefer experience.

I would agree with this Robert, buying young players with potential from a lower division or from abroad, hungry to succeed in the Premiership. I’m still not convinced that Beto won’t succeed with a decent run in the team, something that he hasn’t really had.

I can't agree with you on point 2. It depends on the player and the position. Gana Gueye has been one of our outstanding players lately at the ripe age of 35. Paul Power was 32, when he signed for us and won a champions medal. Different era too, so you can put that relatively.

Jagielka was 27 when we signed him and about 37 by the time he returned to Sheffield United.

I like a blend of youth, young players and a good mix of experience.

Gueye certainly fulfilled that remit and has been an excellent (re)signing. What constitutes a 'small fee' these days is debatable but I'd think anything under £6-8m might be considered a small fee for a player who will contribute meaningfully to the first team for a season or two at least.

Ferguson is injury prone and has not played in Brighton's first 11 for a number of weeks.

We will do well to add to and more importantly improve the squad in the days that remain. We may need ever 1 of the 7 point cushion that we currently have!

Beating Leicester next Saturday would be a huge help.

Question is - at the end of the season will we send him back because not good enough or buy him?

None of these look of the standard of say Watkins or Toney of previous years.

But there are excellent players in the Championship.

Thanks Robert, do you know typically how much one of them would likely cost in today’s market. Guess I’m just trying to see where the best value may be, that lad from Rangers, now I would put the Scottish Premiership on a par with the Championship rightly or wrongly as I would the Dutch, French, Belgian and Portuguese leagues.

Alan Myers is usually spot on.

Top championship strikers will cost upwards of £15m

Third tier Birmingham spent £15m on Stansfield this summer from Fulham.

The top strikers in Portugal? Bournemouth paid nearly £40m for Evanilson and you might have to double that to get Gyokeres.

If we want someone really talented, we need to get them before they have made their mark. Which means giving them a season or two to develop.

I remember because the wife was a Villa fan and I sucking my teeth telling her it was a massive risk!!

On Igamane - apparently Rangers have no interest in letting him go mid-season.

We're more likely to buy the winger Angelo Preciado from Sparta Prague. He looks shit and has been injured since October so he fits the mould perfectly.

Robert, we've got as much chance of getting Igamane for £8-£12m as Paul Hewitt's got of predicting a correct Everton score!

James#338. Your understanding from ultra reliable websites I take it?

Nearly every signing is a gamble in football, and the kid who left Coventry last season, shows us a lot about how the recruitment game works.

Marseille, were probably over the moon to get their money back on N’Diaye, but he has probably already put over ten million on himself, if he was up for sale right now.

Marseille were unlucky, Everton have been luckier, but there is a lot more to it a lot of the time, and this is why you should leave no stone unturned when it comes to recruitment, imo

And if Josh Sargent is in your Championship top tier for strikers, it's a pretty weak place to shop. Poch gave him a couple of starts for the USA in the October friendlies, and he was totally unimpressive. Sargent is a relentless worker and a much better finisher than he was two years ago, but he lacks pace and power, and has a history of long injury absences.

Mike, absolutely - if they haven't made their mark yet then it's hard to know whether they will be any good. So you need to be prepared to buy (and sell) at reasonable volume and develop talented players over a period of years.

Our best signing of recent years by a mile is Branthwaite. We might say the same thing about Braiden Graham in a few years. Or Chermiti.

The highest risk though (if you do want a talented team) is buying likeable but largely talentless players like Beto or has beens etc.

You are a walking talking (well typing) encyclopaedia of global footballers.

You'd be a much better Sky pundit or writer for elements of the media that I tend to ignore!!

Come the summer, we’re going to need 10-12 players just to have a squad at all. I think we’re going to need to avoid ruling anything out on principle and look at everything case by case. A couple of older (late 20s) signings might be absolute bargains as they hit their prime whilst still feeling they have a point to prove.

I was going to say this elsewhere but might as well tack it on here - we need 12 players and have 5 main sources of them:

Contract renewals
Youth team progressions
Out-of-contract ‘Bosman’ signings
Loans
Actual transfers for money

I’d say we need to use all of these routes and no more than 3-4 of any individual one of them.

Every injury clause I've ever read about protects the parent club -- like they're entitled to recall the player if they have an injury crisis and need help (Spurs just did that, pulling Scarlett back from Oxford), or if he's not playing enough to get the necessary experience.

And I've seen clubs have the ability to terminate loans early. I suspect both are linked, although perhaps one is easier if you have the upper hand.

Why we couldn't do that for Mangala, Harrison, or Broja will have come down to negotiation I guess. If our offer didn't have the termination option, but our did - perhaps that's how we won the transfer race? At the start of the season would we have been happy to miss out on players by insisting on those terms? I suspect not.

Not a complete scouting report I’ll admit but me and my daughter enjoyed it.

He was a free agent that summer, I’d have snapped him up.

Wouldn't Chelsea benefit 2 fold if we could take another player from them paying wages and maybe fee for both ?

If its a no to loans then some creative contracts maybe ?
Buy a player say valued at 30m for 2m on 6 months contract with clause to take take them back ??

Harrison doesn't fit with the other two. He's obviously healthy, and in a season and a half he's started 43 games. I don't think we can send a player back because he's playing badly right now.

Nor, I believe, would we want to. Our worsening injury situation leaves us no room for that.

I think Moyes would get more out of him in that role than we've seen before. Not hard, I'd admit.

We can return Broja but it has to be with mutual agreement, I believe, or if there was an agreed clause inserted in the original deal that has been triggered.

Although I suspect that in the majority of cases it is the loaning club who have more clout, it would be utter fecking negligence if Thelwell did not insist on an injury clause for an injured player. But it looks like he did not. That's an F for Thelwell.

Perhaps the "we'll pay his salary until he plays for you" was the sweetener. But, even if this was indeed the case, it is still utterly remiss not to insist on an additional injury clause for a well-known crock who Thelwell turned to in desperation at the last minute after his failure to find us a credible starting striker over the summer.

I keep hearing/reading that Dyche said no to more than half-a-dozen players over the summer. I've not seen much rock solid evidence of this and it is not even clear if this speculative "no" was at the stage of suggestion rather than signing. Anyway, our loudest Yank on here keeps telling us that Dyche did not have a hand in our wheeling and dealing.

I just looked it up and apparently loan-players can be returned on the basis of:

Poor performance: If a player doesn't get enough playing time due to injury or poor performance, the loan can be canceled.

Technical or physical challenges: If a player is struggling, they may be recalled for further development.

Interpersonal issues: If a player has conflicts with teammates or staff, they may be recalled.

Administrative errors: If there are errors in the paperwork, the player may be recalled.

Three of these stipulate "recall" rather than "return" or "cancel".

Well, Thelwell got us into this mess and let's now see if he has the know-how to get us out of it. Fingers crossed.

We may see Ndiaye move central with the injuries so it could be a chance to give him a go on the left.

Leicester could be the game to play
Beto ST
Harrison LM, Ndiaye CAM lindstrom RM

As our front 4.

Stephen #352, unfortunately neither would be a surprise.

David #356, somehow I doubt Moyes is gonna take Doucoure out of the middle. He already is making two injury-forced changes for Leicester. Would he make yet a third after two consecutive wins? Doesn't seem likely, does it?

Every year its the same. The Championship, Ligue 1, Portugal etc all delivering up very, very good players at very reasonable prices. Even a few in Scotland! Furuhashi of Celtic has just joined Rennes for €12m.

If we concentrate on this for 2 to 3 windows we should be able to build up a very good squad indeed.

"He will now have several precious months to plot who he needs and who he wants to keep".

"He"? So, it's "He" and "He" alone who will pull all the strings? What ever happened to our DOF (etc.)? The loudest Yank on here keeps telling us that Thelwell and Thelwell alone pulls the strings (by the way, I will say that is seems preposterous to me that a DOF would not sit down with the manager and others to discuss targets to meet, for instance, the set-up and style of play of the said manager).

It might be a fair comment to say that if - IF - Thelwell and Dyche to some extent worked together over the summer then not everything went well: striker(s) more than anything else, an almost unforgivable piece of sloppy negligence.

Much in your post Kevin depends on Moyes' working relationship with Thelwell. We hear that Moyes is not fond of working with a DOF, but in the natural order of things a decent DOF would have better connections around the world.

For this and other reasons Kevin, I don't see the summer as a piece of smooth sailing. The elephant in the room (who we have not heard from since the banal formal introductory note), TFG, will need to release funds, but they ought to be doing that now as we drift towards the end of a dismal window when we need fresh blood.

I wonder if Thelwell will still be with us this summer (his winter has been piss poor and Broja is his permanent scar).

I wonder if Moyes will put pressure on TFG (after a successful second half of the season where we finished 11th) for the green light to take the responsibility on himself.

I wonder if we will replace Thelwell.

In an ideal world, sigh, I would like to see Moyes in constant contact with a new DOF over the summer.

Mike 348
To clarify
Yup, I have known returns of injured loan players to parent clubs, including us, but it was many years ago.
This case is different Broja was long term injured.
WTF we went forward and took him still baffles me.
Whilst it possibly shows how poor our situation involving recruitment is, desperation was not a good enough reason.
We have taken a long injured player with other injury history issues on loan.
It was so risky.
Unable to have the option to cancel because of this or other injuries is plain ludicrous in my opinion.
Payments we cant afford are now cemented for the rest of the season and occupies a desperately needed loan place.
Yes, Mike you are right regarding its occurrence.
My rant is about accountability for this and no matter what, it should never be repeated.

The best position for him should a permanent position on the bench as an unused substitute.

I know this sounds completely daft, but Moyes doesn't feel like a DOF to me! Wouldn't he much rather be the gaffer with first refusal on potential incoming?

Jesus, if anyone has over a 50% track record of successful buys they have earned their salary.

The transfer market is somewhere where I do feel more comfortable with Moyes and I agree with you that he has to be a major voice with or without a DOF.

Every Premier League club has a Director of Football (Technical Director etc.). I think it's unlikely that TFG would change anything. Their Roma/Forest choices suggests this.

It's the deal having to happen in the first place because of the utter failure to sign a credible starting striker over the whole summer that forced us into a corner of our own making for which Thelwell is culpable in my opinion. .

And, as it seems is the case, Thelwell not negotiating some sort of injury clause into the loan of a player with a significant injury history for his age. This if done properly would have allowed us to trigger a return clause and we would not be in this mess that we find ourselves in today, for which, in my opinion, Thelwell is largely to blame.

Option1;

There's the Owner and / or Directors of Football who buy 'the wrong sort of player' say a Tony Cottee, rather than a Chris Woods, then say to the Manager/Head Coach - you're supposed to be the Hot Shot Coach...and we pay you accordingly...Coach him so he can do the job you want.

Or

Option 2;

The Manager/Head Coach says to the DoF; give me a list of the top 5 Peter Reid type players we can afford and I'll grade them as to who I want most (and may even throw in a couple himself.)

Then the DoF goes away to try and buy No1 on the list.

There may even be further 3 & 4 options too.

If there has to be a DoF...and I'm not a fan...I'd prefer Option 2.

As Moyes himself recently stated (gist) I have no problem being sacked due to players I've brought in...but if others bring players in, they too have to face some consequence.

Seems fair enough to me.

As we've seen with O'Brien, the left hand may not be on the same page as the right hand.

Fellows and Rigg and both excellent prospects who would eventually strengthen this side and move us forward. Miller at Motherwell too. The silence is deafening right now though.

He's operated with a budget that's non existing, so I don't think he failed to get us a top striker, we were never in for a top striker.
We were never in for a championship striker this summer, we were looking what was on offer for no fee !!!
SO... unless teams were willing to take magic beans as payment we couldn't afford a decent striker.
Broja was a gamble, a gamble worth taking when you have a loan spot free, hindsight is a beautiful thing.

As to whether we can afford Broja's salary -- we're paying three players, maybe four, who likely won't play again this season. But we now have very wealthy owners and we're in the clear on PSR. Seems we're fine on that score. As you point out, it's the lost loan slot that hurts.

The next week will tell us how much margin we have available in our PSR calculations. My guess is ‘some but not much’.

Also, you have absolutely no idea what our precise financial state was over the summer (again your 6 quid quip is silly).

You are also wrong: “He's [Thelwell] operated with a budget that's non existing [SIC]”. You cannot buy players if your budget is “non existing” and we bought players.

I might be on my own here but the “he’s doing a good job with what he has at his fingertips” point of view can only go so far. You cut your cloth. Thelwell found 17 million in the “non existing” budget in a position that was not, arguably, our top priority. I think Jake O’Brien will turn out to be a fine buy, fingers crossed.

But when the piggy bank is a little thin you prioritise. It’s what households do to get by. It’s that simple. That money should have gone towards a striker or a winger who can actually run with the ball and cross it or a full back. Note, David, a “striker” not a “top striker”. A striker who would fit the model set out in a clear and smart way by Robert Tressell on this and other threads. That striker would be in the £15/£20 million bracket.

Ipswich coughed up an initial £15 million for Liam Delap. David, who did we need the most, £17 million O’Brien or £15 million Delap? Of course, this is nothing more than a scenario but it’s the one that I want to sketch, that gives full credence to Robert’s buying model: scout smartly and strategically, negotiate smartly and strategically, buy smartly and strategically according to what you have.

Ah, hindsight, a wonderful thing David, but you forgot to mention that more than a few on here, myself among them, warned against buying/loaning Broja at the time. Not now; at the time. You might remember that the rumours were circulating before 30 August.

Thelwell had 77 days to find us a Liam Delap type but he failed to do so. His desperation that was directly derived from this failure has landed us in this Broja mess.

So busy laughing after your "grandad". I couldn't even read the rest of your post.

Everyone in professional football sees Everton at best as a brief stepping stone to, for them, a way better career. A very few achieve their larger ambition though.

Alternatively we are seen world-wide as the Premier League's top top magnet for deadwood players looking for a mega-contract to cement the wealth they want for themselves as we, their/OUR club, still bumble along anonymously in a so-called "good year" occasionally.

I mean, Moyes/Irvine/Adam?

Which clubs did we have to beat off to win their signatures?

Sheesh.

One thing I'm sure of. Whatever moves we make over the next seven days will be portrayed here on TW as panicking.

I don't think that we really need to state day-in-day-out "the cause of all our woes", as for most of us it's obvious and it's a deeply entrenched part of our Everton in our minds.

There is nothing to be gained any more in stating what the greater part of us simply assume to be the case. It's instinctive. It's also no longer constructive. It doesn't help us now. He has gone. He's in his liar's lair somewhere. Remaining fixated on him damages the club. It's a diagnosis without remedy.

TFG is a new era. New plans, programmes, and perspectives. Your obsession Don only needs mentioning as we address the debris he has left behind. He only needs mentioning in terms of what we need to do to fix things.

We've started on a fresh journey Don. You need to wave Kenwright goodbye.

Two more weekend injuries, the extent of which I don't think that we know yet or it has not been revealed at any rate, simply magnify the importance of your post. TFG/Thelwell/Moyes - whoever - need to get a couple of players in before the window slams shut.

But Christ do I wish it wasn't so, or hasn't been!

What Kenwright and Moshiri did (with the notable exception of the best stadium in England) borders on unforgivable. If St.Peter cares about footy he would have not let that lying crooked narcissist through the pearly gates. But we need to look forward. Spurs get 5 million each match day from their new ground. I can see a path to a top-6 club Don. The problem is that back in the day when we were kings the league was much more open and even.

The other big problem is that our chances of getting back up where we belong is not in our hands but in the hands of owners. We have no choice but to put our hopes into TFG, remembering that we did the same with the Monaco absentee landlord. Warning bells might ring if we do not get a player or two in before yet another window slams shut. That might be hasty, but if TFG are as credible as the loudest Yank on here keeps telling us, they need to look carefully at our present playing needs.

So we would be in a worse position if we had brought in a right back a few weeks ago? We didn't. You, I, we, have next to nothing real knowledge of available funds. We have no idea of what TFG plan to do over the next week or so.

I assume you mean that if we had bought a right-back that would swallow the funds for a much needed striker. Am I missing something obvious? I don't think that that was what Gaynes was posting about, and in any case unless it passed me by we have yet to buy anyone in this window. Also, strikers tend to cost more on average.

I think Ed, that we just have to hope that TFG and Moyes and Thelwell are having the sort of conversations that might get us one or two new fellas in. Whether or not we got a new full back on board does not matter, I think, because, well, we didn't.

The only one on the list that we can afford already plays for us!!

I was miserable when Moyes came in, but I gotta give him bigtime props for giving Jake his chance -- and at a position he'd apparently never played before. Hell of a move by the manager.

Moyes loves playing a centre-half at full-back. We remember with amazement Lescott keeping Baines on the bench even after all these years. Unfortunately, football has moved in tactically since then.

O’Brien has acquitted himself well since he was selected, but he ain’t no full-back. He has probably done enough though to allow Thelwell to prioritise other positions this month.

Patterson must surely leave in the summer. If he cannot dislodge a 6 ft 6 inch centre-half after being stuck behind a 39 year old left-back, then he might as well move on.

'Big time props' is not English, as I understand English. But with my hopelessly liberal - actually socialist - academic open mind I'm willing to be informed about the derivation and meaning of this silly-sounding term.

Oh Paul, you’re really showing your age.

‘Time props’ are adjustable steel struts that temporarily prop up structures for a period of time.

Big time props are simply a much larger version that you might find in a more industrial setting.

Hope this helps.

I’m not getting too excited about the what’s, ifs & maybes. I doubt anyone is coming in before Saturday or the Cup match

We’ll see what happens after that as it will likely go to the wire.

Steve, I’m not sure it was our current manager liking to play a full back at centre back.

Baines was injured. Also and by his own admission, he had a confidence issue about his ability to play top flight football. We had Jagielka and Yobo, so Lesscott got used at LB for a sustained period.

More necessity than choice. That’s how I remember it. Reports that Rashford is close to agreeing a pay cut to join Barcelona.

If they think that Moyes is 'steady as we go' 2.0 it maybe loans only this January.
I don't see us having more than £10M in the January kitty anyway.
I'm sure there are bargains out there, but it would need to be a pretty complicated rabbit it out the hat job for us to get any real value at that price.
Can Moyes find an Arteta, Cahill, Coleman ( yes I know 60grand) Pinnaar for £1.5 M...adjusted for inflation.

How did I not know this? So, 'big time props' are BIG 'adjustable steel struts that temporarily prop up structures for a period of time'.

MK will probably ban me for a while for this engineering - engineering? - faux pas.

Have a good day mate.

The model certainly works - there's plenty of evidence for that. But following this model doesn't always lead to a Delap (although it does help manage the financial risk with every purchase).

Personally I don't believe there's a striker in world football who we could get now for £15m to £20m who would be better than Beto and DCL immediately. Or very very few anyway.

Ipswich did tremendously well with Delap because he hadn't shown anything like this form in the Championship on loan. I do wonder though whether Ipswich's gung ho style makes life easy for him (in the same way that Bielsa's kamikaze approach to defending flattered Harrison).

The one player who I thought might be good in that price range has already moved twice in the past 6 months: Mika Bierith, the London born Dane who came through Arsenal's academy, went to Sturm Graz in summer and then joined Monaco last week.

Maybe Igamane could be that guy? Really not many others at all.

Normally if you want real talent you pay a price or show some patience.

That is very unsettling. Do you think that we have the option/luxury of 'patience' in our current situation Robert?

Good point about Delap on loan in the Championship. I had a quick look,12 in 68. His best spell was his last one but that was still roughly 1/4. Thelwell can be forgiven for that.

Delap is exactly who we need in the summer to replace DCL, he is already a far superior player but will cost north of £50m even if Ipswich go down. Great find. Clickbait sites has us believing City will also consider offers for McAtee? Surely bollocks but if at all possible we should through ourselves at that chance.

Look at what Bournemouth and Brentford did this summer in their hunt for strikers to replace Solanke and Toney. £35m Evanilson and £30m Thiago from Porto and Bruge respectively.

They obviously concluded there was nothing better in the sub-£30m category.

But my knowledge of these things is well below yours.

Here is an extract from Lescott’s wikipedia page:

‘The start of the 2007–08 season saw Lescott move to the left-back position after Joseph Yobo and Phil Jagielka's successful partnership at the centre of Everton's defence provided manager David Moyes with a selection dilemma.’

Baines picked up his first injury (ankle) on 27 October and his second (achilles) on 8 December, but Moyes had already selected Lescott ahead of him. It was only an injury to Yobo that led to Lescott switching to central defence and Baines getting picked at left-back.

I have faith in them until they prove otherwise. I think that their calls have been sensible so far and I expect them to make another couple of sensible calls in the next 5 days.

Whilst our own resident transfer guru Robert Tressell provides insightful and knowledgeable insights to what may or may not be viable options we don’t really know what’s going on in the background.

I’m hoping for Igamane myself. Breathe in, hold and relax. It will all be ok.

These examples reinforce how hard it is to find a good striker who is also cheap.

And £15m to £20m is really cheap in Premier League terms. For the Premier League anything below £40m is cheap for a striker. Third tier Birmingham spent £15m on Jay Stansfield this summer. The chance of finding a ready made 10+ goal a season striker at that price is extremely low.

There's talk of £35 to £45m for Evan Ferguson and he's never scored more than 6 for a very good attacking outfit.

Where Bournemouth and Brentford have been patient though is with Solanke and Wissa. It took a good while before they started performing at Premier League level. It paid off.

The issue is we have not been stable enough since 2016 to integrate such emerging players. Hence we over-spent on forwards with higher transfer fees and salaries but limited runways left in their careers. We sacrificed Lookman for Walcott, for example.

If David Moyes does nothing else but stabilise us, it might enable us to scout players with future value, coach and develop them when they join, and start building something solid.

Either way, It was more enforced than through choice and it worked.

Once he settled Baines obviously went on to be a key player for Everton. I don’t need to tell anyone on these pages that.

Paul, tell me, I split my time between GMT, CET and US ET!!

Also with regards to O’Brien I’ve heard it said that it was another advantageous deal with little to pay up front for a long term target. I think a lot of our transfer dealings over the last few years has been dictated by which clubs are prepared to take very small fees up front. The likes of Bournemouth have presumably not been hampered in this way.

A tremendous prospect

The origin is "propers", a ghetto slang word in the 1960s that Aretha Franklin incorporated into her hit "Respect" (original writer Otis Redding)...

“Give me my propers when I get home”

60 years later it's still around, as "props". Quincy Jones, who grew up about a mile from my current home, added "big time" to describe large-scale respect.

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure, but I love word origins.

Howrver, you could also see him (in our present set up) scoring about 8 or so goals over the course of a season. Other very talented young strikers like Hojlund and Nunez have struggled in much much better attacking outfits.

It could take a few years for him (and our squad overall) to develop before he starts hitting more than 15 or even 10 goals a season.

I think a lot of fans would consider him an expensive flop in the meantime.

He will want to come here as will play every week. Give them a big loan fee on basis we have option to buy at end of season for agreed price with the loan fee deductible should we exercise it. Easy, problem solved with the striker.

The selection of Lescott at left-back was a choice made by Moyes and not enforced. He has made the same choice with O’Brien over Patterson at left back.

It was a long time ago though to be fair. I just see it as Moyes reverting to his tried and tested tactics.

I do initially think he put Lescott there due to injuries or the transfer of Baines not going through until late in the window, but it's no surprise he kept Jolean there given his form.

You have got to wonder if there is an issue with Patterson behind the scenes? I wonder if it's his attitude or something like that, there was an incident with Dyche last year and now another manager is picking someone else ahead of him. I think he looks a promising player and I would have played him ahead of Young, without doubt.

Maybe Moyes is simply playing it safe to steady the ship? Or maybe he just doesn't rate him at all? Either way we need to decide on him before we lose him for free as he is now 3 years into his contract.

O’Brien has done well there so far, but centre back will be his position.

Mike, other colonials, please clear something up for me. The term ‘Yank’. Minor point, but I’ve always associated it with those from the north east.

I know my Texan friends and those from the Carolinas don’t appreciate the tag.

With regards to music, when driving across the States, I like a bit of Eagles. I probably could have done with those soothing tones after that 2nd half on Saturday.

Personally i'm not so interested in developing other teams players for them but it may depend on what Moyes thinks of Beto and what other options there are out there.

He asks if Gana will sign a season extention, if not he will sign Mangala. End of the line for Harrison, Young, Coleman and Doucoure at the end of the season.

A creative No 10, a speedy false winger/ midfielder and a back up striker are a must, several squad players for cover.
But that's summer..
Right now we are more likely to see no major ins or outs this window.

I also recall Moyes describing Baines as the best left back at the club well before he became a regular. I think he knew they'd get there in the end, but that the defence needed to be evolved rather than thrown together.

Do you mean due to PSR or funds made available by TFG? I'm not sure that its clear at all how much money/wiggle room there is. Of course I'm not expecting us to go out and spend loads but that may be more due to it being a disadvantageous market in January.

There are a lot of games to go, Leicester, Ipswich, Wolves, all have some firepower and will find some wins.
We run the risk of further injuries with absolutely no cover. Keane will be up front, Young will be a wing back.
We really will be testing our luck and truly finding out how good Moyes and his quickly assembled team are.

I get that it's a tough market, we have PSR limitations, there's a reduced risk of relegation and not much likely upside in league positions. That changes the urgency somewhat.

But we are going to have to spend at some point in the next 6 months or there won't be a squad to select from.

Moyes won't want to add too many players in any one window. He's more of a gradual builder and always has been. And I doubt he rejoined without some kind of commitment, even if he's talking it down (which makes sense as a commercial position). I can see us making at least a couple of signings.

We need someone capable up top, but we don't know how much Thelwell can spend unfortunately.

We have wasted the money, but wouldn't it be nice to find the kind of goalscorers Liverpool seem to get, and have done for many years.

Ernie @432. That's probably a better assessment. Lescott was put there, played well and kept his place. As you say, it was a transition to that defence.

I think you're right Christine. I don't think we'll see much until the summer. Helmets and body armour on, it's going to be a tough run in, but we can do it.

I think 3 wins and a couple of draws, especially if we beat Leicester.

It looks like we didn't have the £20m required for Philogene either. We'll see.

Whether that's PSR or Friedkins or whatever its hard to say. But in the context of Premier League spending generally, it does look like we don't have much money still.

We had a decent August, a shitty September and October then the team gelled and we played some great stuff up until the Fiorentina loss on pens. That derailed our season and we only won 2 more games, I think?

I still maintain that spell from the end of October '07 to early March in '08 was the best football we ever served up under Moyes.

What we'd give for that again after the last few years we've had!!

Especially since the alternative for a £0 initial outlay might well have been no-one at all.

The £22m fee compares to something like the £6m paid for Jelavic some years ago. It's a small fee for a striker in Premier League terms.

That was because Baines was injured when he signed for us so couldn't play. Then when he did get on the grass he had a couple of injuries that kept him out for 2 months, and wasn't fully fit until the close season after he had an operation on his ankle.

Nevertheless he played 29 games in his first season so wasn't kept out of the side by Moyes preferring Lescott at left back.

The other reason Lescott was at left back, besides Baines injuries, was the strong centre back partneship of Jagielka and Yobo which kept Lescott out of his preferred position. The start of the 2008/2009 season saw both Baines and Lescott in their preferred positions

"The selection of Lescott at left-back was a choice made by Moyes and not enforced"

I think from the above you can see you are wrong on that.

Quote from moyes on signing Baines"Leighton is someone that we have been after for a long time and he is someone who will give good competition to our squad. We see him as a left-back. We already have Nuno Valente to play there and Joleon Lescott can cover in that position, but we really want [Lescott] to be a central defender"

I remember being at Fulham away. He wasn't playing, not even stripped. He stopped to sign autographs for the supporter as the teams walked past the stand as they do at the Cottage.

He was injured, but it looked more McDonald's or KFC induced than football related. Let's just say he was carrying a bit of 'timber'.

As has already been said, every transfer is a gamble. To use a Forrest Gump quote: 'life is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're gonna get'!!

Try £10m

He was shite before we bought him and he'll be the same when he leaves. Just another footnote in the long list of awful strikers we've had.

It's funny, we used harp on about all the amazing players and famous number 9's we've had, but in reality we're famous for having really terrible strikers.

The good ones you can pretty much count on one hand!

Looked like Rondon had a season ticket at his local all you can eat buffet, which got me to thinking of a Frankenstein makeover for an Everton player, Stuart Barlows feet, or Mike ferguson, Castillo thighs, Billy Wrights fat arse, Rondons gut and Bernie wrights head.

Whatever it is, it still compares with the £65m for Solanke

Yes we've had some mediocre strikers but we also have a habit of writing alot of them off despite them often playing thankless roles as lone striker in a defensive team.

No Anthony, you are wrong Jeff Stelling hasn’t a clue.

I always thought he was merely reading off other people’s opinions rather than his own.

I expect our shopping to be opportunistic. Usually here’s not much good value to be had in January but if the right deal arises it’s my understanding that our hands are no longer tied in the way they were.

I expect Moyes to persevere with Beto, I'm hoping it turns out like Marcus Bent leading the line, no-one rated him but he did a job for the team.

My worry is what happens if Beto gets crocked? Where is Chermiti? We could seriously be looking at Michael Keane leading the line eventually, and if that happened, it wouldn't be beyond him to still mess something up at the other end of the pitch!!

That slant on Evan Ferguson is really misleading suggesting he has a mediocre return of 6 for "a very good attacking outfit".

There is no chance of Evan Ferguson being sold for £40 million as Tony Bloom is a really shrewd operator unlike TFG.
I think if we are in for him we have a huge chance of getting him but only on loan for a number of reasons.

The club know what a talent he is, his finishing is top class but there is a problem between how the coach see him and Bloom. Ferguson hasn't kicked on from his injury and they are playing players in front of him who aren't in his class.

Bloom will want him progressing with a view to either getting him back for next season or commanding a huge fee that clubs were looking at after his maiden season. Ferguson is a 1 in 2 striker in terms of minutes played and this includes the period he was working his way back to fitness. He is elite.

For example he along with Fabregas are the only non English players to have 10 goal involvements at the age of 18 and under.

I have no doubt he will go to a club, firstly, where he is a guaranteed starter which would rule out the likes of Spurs and possibly Arsenal. Secondly to an outfit that won't challenge Brighton this season. I think West Ham will be seen as a rival so Bloom is too savvy to allow that to happen. That would mean a club at the top or bottom. This is why I think we would have a great chance especially now that Dominic is injured.

If he were to stay fit I would expect him to get a minimum of 8 goals for us now that we had the change in management.

Read the damn rules

‘Tony Bloom is a really shrewd operator unlike TFG’

Conor, what makes you think that the highly successful TFG are not shrewd operators. I think that the decisions made so far have been pretty much on the money.

At a push we could always play Ndiaye up front.

As limited as he is, he caused the pen to be given on Saturday with effort alone.

Do you not recall the skill and first touch for his disallowed goal, taking the ball out of the sky with the outside of his boot on the half turn and slotting against southampton?

He has made more impact off the bench and put more effort in than dcl all season and isn't made of glass like Broja.

I watched a bit of the u21 game last night and Sheriff looks a prospect and will probably make the bench for the next couple of weeks. Not sure he is ready for the first team but you never know until players are exposed to that level.

I think the future's just arrived.

Agree Rob, I don’t think coming off the bench every now and again constitutes a proper chance. Just because he didn’t perform to expectations for Dyche, you could say the same for DCL. He certainly performed well for Udinese, so who knows.

We need cover anyway though I suspect it’s just being done quietly as with all of TFG business dealings thus far.

Is there anything preventing Chelsea from recalling Broja from his loan as other clubs have done? Are you suggesting that this is not a possibility within the rules? Reports are that they would want his salary paid up.

Nice to see you have come round to Simons view on Thelwells signings after telling us how rubbish they all are all season.

Nigel

I think the opposite to you. Not having a manager in. Losing valuable time and points with Dyche which could have been costly as he was a dead man walking.. An unambitious panicky appointment. No executive decisions. No smart deals between clubs (Roma and Everton) to get around PSR. No signings so far. You would have thought the likes of Keane and Doucoure who will be surplus to requirements would have been used as makeweights due to their contracts. No movement on existing contracts.

They are no doubt shrewd business operators but their time at Roma was one panic measure after another and their net spend there and decision making has been appalling.

Bloom and TFG are different animals in the footballing world

If true, not the worst option on the table. Also, speculation on my part but Igamane of Rangers may be an affordable choice for up front. Not sure how much Moyes has faith in Patterson, but maybe, he could be part of that deal, if not in his future plans, or even a loan till next season !

Firstly, they have a free loan spot. We currently do not and have no idea if Chelsea will agree to early termination on Broja. Secondly, West Ham also lack a central striker but have far greater creativity in their ranks to supply him, Potter plays good football meaning any striker should get chances. Thirdly, it's an easy commute from Brighton where presumably Ferguson's family are.

Excellent prospect but as I've said a few times I'd rather not develop players for our competitors where possible. I doubt there will be a buy option.

I would agree with you on Chermiti Christy, a promising player already showing a susceptibility to injury. Real shame.

You forgot to mention Sam, that Potter also gave him his debut.

Sky aren’t giving us a look in with him by the looks of it.

None of that necessarily means they'll be spending much dough at Everton though. At least for the time being.

Would definitely prefer Ferguson to Brobbey Ian if there was a choice.

Latest rumour suggests Brighton prepared to sell Ferguson.If price was right, for a young guy with big potential, and comfortable with his injury record, then that’s a good buy for someone..

Signing a player who has been injured like Chilwell or Ferguson is a big risk if they break down again.

Going to need some money & some luck.

I’ve read that Chelsea don’t want to take Broja back irrespective of whether we pay the fee. Obviously it’s all rumour mill stuff but current, facts are, we’ve used up our 2 loan options. IF Chelsea took Broja back then I’d expect them to want us to take one of their other players. Hence stalemate

Where have I denigrated Thelwell’s signings? What nonsense are you spouting man?

Your Southern friends would most definitely resent being called Yanks because the origin word, Yankees, was the derogatory nickname for the Union Army in the Civil War (which many Southerners are still fighting, I believe!). When used by a Texan or a Carolinian it would be considered a serious insult.

Johnny Reb and Billy Yank wasn’t it Mike in the ACW.

Nigel, Christy and Jimmy, with zero supporting evidence I believe Chermiti will prove an excellent signing. He has size and pace, and I saw flashes of confident skill in his cameo appearances. In comparison to some of the other characters mentioned in this thread, I think he's got exciting possibilities.

Nigel #489, yep.

Ed #490, haven't heard that term before, got me chuckling here.

He's a year only, a little more physical, and more importantly has found the net more times than Sherif this season.

Regards PSR, and monies to spend. We still have to meet the June 30th PSR limit, before we migrate to the UEFA model and the SCR (Squad Cost Rule) which means more important than shifting 'deadwood', to coin a cruel phrase,' is for TFG to maximise our revenue via new improved commercial deals, and more sponsorship for the club.

The greater matchday revenue, I have been led to believe, will be offset by the excess from our current level towards servicing the much lower interest on the debt accrued via the stadium build, and completion.

From what Swiss Ramble has said, we have very little left to spend this window due to the 'probable' £3.75-4mn we paid Dyche and staff, and the book cost of £12.5mn first six months for Moyes at £2.5mn for this year.

nb That doesn't include costs for Mackinlay, Irvine or Adam, nor any (if any) increased renumeration for Leighton.

Which means if we had an approximate £15m purse (via Swiss Ramble) we now have something more like £5mn to spend.

This might put into context why we are struggling to get deals in place.

The only other news I heard, which I rate to any degree, is from the TtB podcast last week (or the one before) where Paul thinks that the club does have monies for a transfer or two..?

I just think we haven't signed anybody because the traditional Everton transfer window -- 10pm to 11pm on Monday -- isn't open yet. They haven't even tested the fax machine.

If we have 8 million headroom in the accounts then that would equate to 40m after amortization over five years less anything we have to pay for Chermitti and Beto this year.

So basically we are still working on a shoestring and Chelsea aren't being very cooperative. Harrison although limited I would not terminate his loan as he seems to stay fit and available and he is not the worst player in a relegation battle.

If the reports are correct and he is demanding a move I cant see Moyes wanting him to stay.

Why not just wait and see? 😉

Brian 499, yea, I'm just waiting to see who we will get for free or loaned in. It's not like they own the market.

More generally, I expect TFGs immediate aim is to stay up at minimal outlay. Although were not out of the woods, the panic is over - and although we're light on players we can probably manage.

But equally they won't look a gift horse in the mouth if a really good longer term option suddenly becomes available.

All I can assume right now is that the players we have fit and available right now are carrying us through the next match.

Interesting thread with a lot of similar and different views.

One view deserves it's own thread. Everton number 9s. Have there really been that many great ones? Separate discussion.

Simon H (492): Omari Benjamin, 'He's a year only'. That nicely fits the model of development Robert and others have talked about.

Or in the words of Tom Lehrer, it helps us forget for a moment our drab, wretched lives. (His intro to "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park.")

What else would I be doing this morning? Nothing productive, that's for sure.

Christy #505, I have no idea why I have a hunch about that kid. I just do. Maybe the Sligo game.

You wait 'til the window "slams shut" for the list of much repeated disappointed expletive ridden posts. 🤣

I know, I think the only way is to recruit young, and develop players to the core of 'what it is to be touched by the club!' Start them that early! Hehe

I meant a year older than Sherif, and physically more developed than the aforementioned player...

Goddamnitall PF, you are a flippin' pedant of a pedant! If that's not being overly pedantic? 🤔

Apparently after being rebuffed with our initial bid for Preciado, we have re-bid for the Sparta Prague Ecuadorian International with an improved offer of £5mn, which is still below Sparta's valuation of £5.61mn. A case of wait and see as per Brian at 499...

Preciado set to move to Everton

Secondly, apparently Beto has approached Moyes and management (Thelwell?) after the Brighton game and is still unhappy at the club, and wants to return to Italy (or leave the club) BUT he hasn't actually made a transfer request, and hasn't actively started to position himself to force a move.

The thing is, if we can accommodate Beto's wishes, it opens up more PSR wriggle room to bring someone in.

Which leads me on to the fact that Everton management, have been at various Rangers games, apparently with the intention to scout Igamane; however, it would appear that unless Rangers get a huge offer, he is very likely to remain at his club till the summer. (Various sources, most of them click bait sites!)

It probably wasn't top priority this summer having just signed beto. The priority was probably more the supply to te strikers & creating more, for them and the team.

You only have to see the net spend of Thelwell over the last few seasons to see what a measly budget he's had.
Some deals have Been quite shrewd.
The onana deal in and out was good.
Ndiaye looks a bargain.
Obrien doesn't look overpriced to me.
Lindstrom could work out with low risk if he doesn't.
The tim deal from villa with dobbin going other way was good for us.

It's all opinions mate. But the one fact we should all be able to agree on, is we've not had alot of cash to spend.
I'd think that's fair. No ?

If I remember correctly the last players we brought in was 2022, when we brought in Donnie van de Beek and Dele Alli, who now has an 18 month contract at Como playing for Cesc Fabregas.!?

2021 was good too, as we brought in Mykolenko and Patterson... Oh, happy days!

It was obvious (well it seems obvious to me) that the vultures were circling the club, and hoped to get Branthwaite on the cheap.

Credit to Thelwell, and Moshiri for that matter, that we didn't budge on our valuation and turned Utd down twice, but how many soundings out were made that weren't in the public domain?

However, I'm sure if Utd, City or whoever said, "OK, here's £75mn", we would have taken the money, and O'Brien would either be a new starter or first backup like Keane was at the start of the season.

So was O'Brien really such a FAIL and a poor buy for £16.3mn?

Also, remember that Keane is OOC at the end of the season, and Tarks turns 33 on Nov 19th. His form this season has been erratic enough to cause some worries, but hopefully we'll get another top season out of him next year.

We could have actually looked at Delap, and he may well have been on of the players Dyche didn't want?

Or we could have spent £15mn on Delap and in Dyche's system, he might not have flourished, and maybe even get to the point where if he was behind DCL he might well have reconsidered his future at Everton..?

Who knows?

But he makes no sense to me for two reasons. One, he's not an attacking or creative RB, which is supposedly what we want. And two, he's currently on the shelf after knee surgery and not expected to return for a couple of months yet.

Why would we be buying him now?

He fit's the 'elite' player bracket that Moyes has stated he wants.

When fit, he'll be a shoo-in at RB. Which means, we can either loan out or sell Patterson; as for some reason, it seems his face or abilities don't fit at Everton?

Or even keep Patto to further develop.

If we buy Preciado now for £5mn and we have him for two successful seasons, he'll only be 28 and I'm pretty sure we'll make a profit on his sell on.

Plus he can play RW, which frees up Lindstrøm, to play centrally or not have as many defensive duties, so it means we get two ball playing outlets in Ndiaye and Lindstrøm, rather than Lindstrøm playing RWB and defending as much.

When you look at it long-term it makes sense, because if all we have at CB for next season is Tarks, Jarrad and Jake, we can't afford to play Jake at RB.

That would be my 5 minute thought process take on it.

Yes it's similar to beto. Moyes may gt more from him than Dyche.

I don't think he's got the quality from what I've seen to be our main striker. I'd happily be wrong for him to bag 10 in the run in ! The change of tactics may suit him.

When your desperate, other clubs know, you end up paying over the odds (beto) I just don't go for this get a striker, any striker...

We need longer term thinking, strategy and if they're who and what we really need, then yes !

If there's not the player or players we require for the longer term then walk away !

Shortermism, is just a Cycle we need to break.

16m for Obrien isn't that much really nowadays, championship clubs spend that on players.

16m is like 4- 5m in Moyes first spell.

You have sides, richer sides who won't bother with a signing like Obrien, they would rather a team like us buys him, he progresses and they will pay 40-50 once proven.

That's our market to find value, the 10 - 15m market in my opinion.

Seems to be up to speed in the English game. 6ft 2 and 20, with a bit of Serbian aggression.

Christy, I'd take Willian too. In a heartbeat. What great electricity he could bring coming off the bench in the last 20 minutes.

Robert and Simon, could be. He is definitely going cheap for a player that young and that good. Definitely our starter next season with Coleman and Young retiring. But if the perception is that we need help right now, Preciado offers none.

On the plus side, Garner is back.. but its a blow.

No news on DCL.

Hopefully we will get a decent striker in this window ( please not Ings nor Ferguson ) and hopefully get Chermiti fit again soon.

I wonder if that one persistent TW poster will still say Moyes should have left him on the pitch to just stand there and keep a defender occupied.

Laurie #530, the timing couldn't be better. This time last season Longstaff was a core player for them. Now they've clearly moved past him. Only 5 minutes off the bench in the last 6 games. The guy is a winner, only 27. Go for him.

Unpopular opinion though... Mangala isn't that good. He's just a player who can pass the ball reasonably and, as a result, has looked decent in a team that struggles to pass the ball.

Replaceable... If we have the means to replace.

He starts most of our patterns of play, is productive in his passing, and he is the outball for the keeper and defence. He also has a decent shot on him.

He is one of those players who you only really miss when they are unavailable. I think his absence will cause us issues unless Garner is ready, as I don’t see Gueye, Doucs, or Tim Iro filling that role with confidence.

"we've not had al ot of cash to spend. I'd think that's fair. No ?

Absolutely. Although one thing that irks me is when folks type today that we have - Yorkshire - "nowt" to spend. We simply don't know that for sure and none of us have any idea of the nature of the current conversations between new manager and ownership.

Ipswich did not pay the full 15 million up front for Delap. I'm not sure what the opening payment was but this is not a million miles away from JOB.I agree, JOB and Delap are different cases but my point was that our priorities tilted towards a Delap not a JOB. But that does not mean that I think that JOB is a poor buy. Far from it.He's ours now. We get on with it.

Grant (H) 513: I for one in our present predicament as we drift - sleepwalk - ever closer to February 3 would take Ings and Willian in a heartbeat as a short-term fix.

Six days to go and you think we have the luxury to say no to credible short-term alternatives?

Firstly apologies if you thought I was having a 'dig' at your comment to PF earlier.

I was in fact supporting your counter argument to PF when he was berating the decision to buy Jake rather than a striker.

Well hindsight is 20/20 after all, because if I recall correctly, preseason we had a fit DCL, Beto and Chermiti, and knowing that DCL would not sign a new contract Thelwell may well have done a deal with Chelsea to loan and rehab Broja, with possibly a trade in the summer with a swap between Broja and DCL (Who knows?)

Yet, there was a very real possibility of losing Jarrad to one of the more monied teams, so buying a long-term Thelwell target, remember he tried to buy him in the summer of '23, to cover a very real possibility that Jarrad may leave makes perfect sense.

Who knew that Chermiti, then Broja and lastly DCL would end up getting crocked?

I hope that you're right about Moyes improving Beto, as that is the one position, striker, that Moyes has consistently failed to improve.

I agree too, that we at this point, should not panic buy any old player; which again may well be why there hasn't been any business done so far.

Where you said this below;

"We need a longer term thinking strategy, and if they're who and what we really need, then yes !

If there's not the player or players we require for the longer term then walk away !

Short-termism, is just the cycle we need to break."

I think you are absolutely correct.

For now, we have to stop thinking of ourselves as being a 'great club', and be more fatalistic for the time being. Until that is, the damage done to the club's core values, infrastructure and growth potential, since 1989 has been rectified.

We have a new stadium, which although it won't provide us with it's maximum potential immediately, it will in time set us up to improve revenues incrementally over time.

Again where you said this too David;

"You have sides, richer sides who won't bother with a signing like O'Brien, they would rather a team like us buys him, he progresses, and they will pay £40-50mn once proven."

This is again realising, for the time being, we will be a 'feeder' club, or a development club, for the larger, more storied teams in the league for the time being.
This in turn will help us turn a profit, increase revenue, improve our SCR, and make us more attractive to a better class of player.

The question I would ask, with a sparkly new stadium coming on stream, a new ownership group, the thoughts of money being available, and the potential to 'cross-fertilise' the AS Roma and Everton squads; Q/ Will the fans be patient enough to realise that the new Everton won't be built in a couple of seasons?

I see this as potentially a five to ten year project to sustainably challenge for, and get into Europe, before hopefully mounting a challenge for the title. Although I do hope for much quicker improvement in our fortunes.

The new SCRs will actually give us a small advantage over those clubs who are in Europe, due to the 85% SCR for non-European teams, vs 70% SCR for European teams (I.e. those playing in and not playing in European competition)

Just touching on Moyes, I would suspect that when he was negotiating with TFG, he would have been sounded out about managing the team (always under the assumption of comparative success) for his full 2.5 year term, and then possibly being given an upstairs or backroom role.

As Brian Williams all the way back at 499 said, let's wait and see... (Though that could have been MK imitating BW?)

Broja was sidelined for long spell at start of loan, and injured again right at the start of this January window.
Chermiti was injured pre season, hasn’t kicked a ball since.
Beto has been reluctantly used, he has been third choice when Broja was briefly available and as such asked for a return to Italy. Negotiations have taken place, offers have increased and he wants out..
DCL wouldn’t sign a contract, I believe we were open to selling him in January.
Admittedly his latest injury is sheer bad luck..
Surely this was a situation that needed urgent action at the start of January, not the final days of the window.
This was a problem simply waiting to happen.

I'd say a striker now would be very helpful indeed but the trouble is where to find one we can afford who improves us. Very few moves have been made by clubs in the January market and of course DCL's injury only happened a few days ago, till then we had 2 fit strikers available with Chermiti hopefully returning soon.

It depends what you mean by ‘get’. If you mean they will green light planning then yes, if you think they’ll somehow be given the funding to do it you might have been watching too much GB News!

Good chat with a United season ticket holder this morning Les. He was telling me about the state of Old Trafford at the moment, the stadium may be big but it’s a mess, unlike our sparkling new ground 😀😉

I reckon awoniyi from Forest is possible. Not blown away with that option, but we've got to get something done.

Agree with that. It appears a win win for all concerned.

As Brian Williams all the way back at 499 said, let's wait and see... (Though that could have been MK imitating BW?)

No Simon that was definitely me.

And to elaborate on that comment. Have people not learned anything from previous windows?

Listen, just be prepared for disappointment then anything else is a bonus.

I agree with your post on developing players as a way of improving our finances.

We shouldn't be ashamed of turning a profit on players, some fans see it as we are giving up by selling players like Braithwaite, but if you look at what a massive transfer can do if the money is invested wisely in younger developing payers, its the way to grow and be more competitive, untill the times comes where players rebuff the lure of other teams and belive they can compete for honours at Everton.

Hopefully now we can get on a good financial footing, not be looking at 1 transfer window at a time and filling gaps in the squad, but planning longer term.
Buying emerging talent to develop, while also improving the first team without the threat of psr hanging over us.

It's why I think Thelwell should be given the opportunity to take on the next couple of years and see if he can operate at the level we need, as in my opinion he's done OK under the restraints he's been dealing with.

Sam (546), it's not for me to put words in Ian's mouth, but I think that he was thinking that we should have anticipated potential issues and scenarios down the road last August. We could and should have factored them into priorities and strategies six months ago. We didn't. And that is one of the reasons for this mess we find ourselves in today.

For what it's worth, I do agree with this.

Also, Sam, we could only count on DCL and Beto at the end of August, as Chermiti was out of the picture (and still is). This is why we made the utterly desperate last-minute move for Broja.

Resources have been tight and buying a 5th striker with 4 on the pay roll already competing for 1 spot might have seemed wasteful. I don’t remember too many complaining at the time but then my memory ain’t what it used to be.

We have needed new players from the minute the transfer window opened, so it is hard to understand why we are still to sign a player.

Beto leaving and being replaced by another forward, wouldn’t surprise me, but I’m not surprised by our lack of movement in this window, even though it’s not easy to comprehend

". but then my memory ain’t what it used to be".

Are you forgetting your lines?

Yeah, he's only got one in the league this season, but he's only played 300 minutes. Give him time on the pitch. Sell him? In favor of elderly Ings and an untried kid from the Scottish League? No thanks.

MK - match report - "The ball up to Calvert-Lewin saw him pull up, and going down clutching his hamstring after just 10 minutes"

Yeah.

Given the options that are available we need him to make an impact!

I think that DCL was, in time, 'fit' to start and able do low 90% and if he was careful the odd high 90% but not too often.

No way was he able to do sustained 100% and not a shit show of full military power afterburners 110% as is sometimes required.

Now, with the advent of new Moyes regime, either under orders, off his own bat, maybe a combination of both, who knows, he's pushed himself too far.

Hopefully it's just 'one of those things' and back in six weeks.

The big worry for him and us is, he's now basically just not fit enough for the pace of flat out Saturday / Wednesday 100 % Premier League football.

Edit; Hence the quest for (slightly slower) European pastures new?

Still not much movement apart from Buendia to Leverkusen and the Duran to Saudi deal.

We will be picking them up if he stays injured in any case, so all we are losing out on is a handful of games at the end of the season at best.

I would take Dewsbury Hall on loan. He scores goals and adds a good quality body to the middle of the park. Loan with option to buy.

Not seen Igamane, but he seems to have a decent goal scoring record and will be gettable from Rangers. Loan with option to buy.

As for Igamane, Rangers won't let him go on a loan with option to buy and we don't have a loan spot free anyway.

I doubt we will get either of them with an option to buy Ian, more an obligation, still what do I know.

I’m hoping Dewsbury-Hall will be part of the Broja loan deal rearrange and Rangers aren’t letting Igamane go for less than £25 Mill, allegedly. That’s what you have to pay for a striker with a reasonable chance of making it, in January.

Good players don’t tend to go with options to buy normally, why would they?

Obligation to buy still counts as a loan.

And you seem to be ignoring Chelsea in your dreams!

Is there anyone who thinks maybe we'll get nobody?

Chelsea agree to take Broja back, cancelling his loan providing we take Dewsbury- Hall on loan so in effect replacing one with the other.

Igamane we would have to buy.

a) They get to treat the injury and know it is sorted so it doesn't impact a future medical/value,
b) we are still paying his wages so they don't lose out either,
c) they move Dewsbury Hall, who they don't want.
d) How are Chelsea losing out here?

Nigel - I would be surprised if he went for £25m, and if he did Rangers are not in a position to turn that down after paying only £2m for him. £25m would be a huge Scottish Transfer Fee.

Perhaps it is an obligation to buy for him, but I think it would be £15-20m.

Then maybe one or two of the low cost deals like Willian or Preciado.

It looks pretty likely that despite what we may all want, there's no chance really of cancelling a loan - and freeing up a new spot. So that limits our options.

I suspect TFG will be thinking there's enough in the squad to get the (?) 3 more wins we need to stay up - and they can use their money more constructively in summer.

If so, they are probably right. Boring but right.

As for Igamane Perhaps it is an obligation to buy for him, but I think it would be £15-20m. how can we loan him with an obligation to buy, or am I missing something?

Robert#587

I suspect TFG will be thinking there's enough in the squad to get the (?) 3 more wins we need to stay up - and they can use their money more constructively in summer.

If so, they are probably right. Boring but right.

Now that's the most realistic take I've read on this transfer window.

Thank you, that is exactly how the Dewsbury-Hall deal would work, as far as Chelsea are concerned two players they don’t need are having their wages paid until the end of the season by us. Apparently, this is being discussed as we speak.

Yes very expensive for Igamane but that’s the price they have apparently put on his head, teams know we are desperate. If he turns out well then we’ll make it back, plus some, if he doesn’t then it’s another waste of money, that’s the position we are in.

I'm hoping for Dewsbury-Hall replacing Broja on loan. Nuamah (or another pacy forward) for £15m and maybe some depth at full back (lamptey or KWP) for a minimal fee.

With Mangala out someone like Longstaff could make sense but personally i'd not want to spend more than £6-8m on journeyman type player over 26.

Why haven't we done so already? Brinkmanship on wages

and the risk we can't get a English deal over the line - meaning we are better having Broja for 5-6 games (if we cant get a English Loan over the line) than nothing else.

Sam, do you genuinely think Rangers financially can turn down a big bid? My understanding is that they are in a huge financial mess still.

That's going to be all bit impossible to replace under PSR rules.

Wages Ian or Chelsea could well be trying to add an obligation to buy for Dewsbury-Hall before they cancel the Broja loan and they are haggling over the price or Everton aren’t keen on an obligation to buy at all, something along those lines.

Without posting links, this is what I've gathered;

Broja will not be going back to Chelsea before the Window closes. Chelsea do not want to see us strengthen.

Mangala too will not be going back to Lyon. They don't want to pay his wages, and deal with his medical costs. Even though due to a couple of sales, they aren't in as much of a financial mess, they are still struggling.

There is a whisper that Leeds might want to take Harrison back to bolster their run-in for the Championship... I've no idea how true this is, BUT it would require our consent to do so.

Apparently, we approached Brighton late last night for talks about Evan Ferguson, no idea under what guise, as Leverkusen have withdrawn their interest.

The only serious challenge, allegedly, is West Ham (go figure that one..?)

The talks re Preciado are still ongoing, they may be quibbling over the extra £610,000 they want, or we might be struggling to meet terms?

Igamane is probably going to be summer business, as Rangers will not take less than £25mn now, and even then, would that guarantee a buy? Plus, that's a large chunk of money for an untried player in the PL?

The rumours about Marcus Edwards has resurfaced, for about £15-20mn.

The most interesting, is a rumour about Ward-Prowse at Forest, for about £16-20mn.

Anyway, as Brian (and not MK!) has said, let's wait and see; plenty of time yet, four days or so!

The latest I can gather is the deal is on for 25m and we are letting Beto go for 15m to part fund it.

V.7.4. subject to any conditions imposed by the Board in the exercise of its discretion under Rule V.4.2, the minimum period of a Temporary Transfer shall be the period between two consecutive Transfer Windows and the period of a Temporary Transfer shall not extend beyond 30 June next after it was entered into, save that the Board may, in its absolute discretion, permit a Temporary Transfer to be terminated before the commencement of the second Transfer Window (subject to such conditions as the Board deems appropriate);

And then further down as a footnote:

An example of the circumstances in which the Board might exercise its discretion in Rule V.7.4 is where a Player subject to a Temporary Transfer is unable to represent the Club temporarily holding his registration due to a long-term injury. In such circumstances, the Board might approve the termination of the Temporary Transfer on the condition that the Player is prohibited from making any first team appearances at the Club with which he re-registers, during the remaining period of the original Temporary Transfer.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrongly but it suggests to me that the Premier League (the Board) would only have considered approving a request to terminate Broja's loan agreement on the basis that the player has suffered a season ending injury only if the request was made before the January transfer window opened.

Dewsbury-Hall is the one I'd like to see most.
With an option to buy, because he could turn out to be just what our MF needs.

David@601 I like DWH but would depend on price. He cost Chelsea a pretty penny and I’m not sure I’d want us to pay much more than £15m or so for someone nearer 30 than 20 unless he proved a real revelation.

Possibly, because of American Corporate rivalry?

Other than that, I have no idea?

It's just been in the media that Chelsea don't want us to strengthen...

In all honesty none of the players mentioned (apart from Ferguson) look like genuinely good signings.

Igamane might be another but £25m is a huge fee for for someone with only 19 games and 9 goals in Scotland.

Furuhashi just went for £12m and he has much more of a track record at club and international level. Igamane looks talented and could really kick on but equally it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he's playing somewhere like Panathinaikos or Trabzonspor in a few years having proved to be a flash in the pan (like Chelsea's Fofana at Goztepe).

Still IMWT.

Can’t think of a forward off the top of my head who David Moyes, ever improved but, those Morrocans, all looked like they relished hard work, (admittedly it was in the World Cup) and you do wonder why Everton, haven’t been looking AS FAR!!

I also think if you say something enough it becomes gospel but, depending on how you recruit why is January allegedly a lot worse than the summer? Is it because clubs tend to pay an inflated price?

Selling clubs are still competing for things and won't want to lose a good player.

Ipswich might take, say, £40m for Delap in summer if they are relegated. But they'd only sell now for silly money - because without him they are almost certain to be relegated.

Everyone says January is not the right time to buy, but just a little look over the park, shows both Suarez and Coutiniho, being signed in the January.

Jelavic, didn’t end up being great, but for those first few months his one touch finishing was out of the top drawer and with a braver manager he might have took us to an FA Cup final that spring

Recruitment Robert, I haven’t seen Delap, but even £40 million sounds like a lot of money for a player who hasn’t played that much senior football imo mate

Tony # 613, £40m is not a lot of money these days. The £7.5m we paid for James Beattie probably equates to the £65m Spurs paid for Solanke. It only sounds a lot now because Everton haven't competed in the transfer market for 4 years - during which time prices have raced up.

Simon #596, your sleepless nights are highly productive.

There are, however, Premier League rules that restrict the number of loan deals that a club is allowed to do over a season. In the case of domestic loans [loans from another English club], teams are allowed two players from other English clubs at once but are allowed a maximum of four over the season, but clubs can only loan one player from a single team. = Harrison & Broja

As for loans outside of England, the rules come down to FIFA, which allows six ins and six outs. There is, however, an exception for club-trained players who are aged 21 or under.

The rules combined mean that Liverpool and their Premier League rivals are allowed up to eight loan players in their squad at any time over the season. The one restriction is that a maximum of two can come from other English clubs.

People also ask

How many foreign loan players allowed in Premier League?

Rules were changed ahead of the 2024 summer window

Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time. The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.

I'd like to see him given a run now in the team, with a new set of tactics, a new approach who knows what might happen.
He always seems to be trying too hard, to prove a point, to force his way ahead of DCL.
If the pressure is off him, he knows he's playing, the team can start to play to his strengths, we may get more from him.

He's not had a settled extended run in the side.
Maybe with Moyes putting an arm round him, he may prove himself.
Under Dyche, and his tactics he never looked to be good enough at this level, but who knows, it's almost like playing for a different team now Dyche has took his 1 page tactical book and done one !!!!

Surely you remember The Onana Pen? The nob.

Has anything ever come from these transfer threads of endless speculation ?

By that I mean do any of the players mentioned over and over again by those ITK and those endlessly guessing, actually sign for us ?...Ever ?

'Is there any interest in Player X from Club Y?'

'There's interest, definitely'

'Does Player X want to leave?'

'I don't know, but maybe he does'

'What about his Club. Do they want sell?'

'Not sure, but every player has his price'

24 hours a frigging day

If we sell Brainthwaite for £70 million, we might be able to spend another £30/40 million under the present PSR rules, at an absolute push.

I don’t know what changes are happening with regards the new PSR rules, but I don’t think £100 million is a lot to spend when you consider the state of our squad, just even regarding numbers, once this season ends

That Google search is wrong mate.

Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time. HANG ON WE HAVE

The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.

Read the first sentence again. We have 4 loans in Harrison, broja, Lindstrom and mangala. Yet it saids there's a limit of two - do you think we've submitted those illegally over the last 20 games?

This is because its referring to domestic loans only. There's a separate provision for overseas loans. I understand we still have 2 overseas slots.

The cunning bit is TFG buy Ferguson etc for Roma, and loan him to Everton if the psr is tight. Job done.

Vinnie O’Connor will be outside finch farm, freezing his balls off in vain, only to tell us at midnight, “lights have gone off and everyone has gone home. No business for Everton then in this window”.

Whatever you do, don’t read news now. Load of tripe.

You do realize that if Harrison and Doucourie are still here after the window shuts. Everyone will blame you.

If your going to be wrong, be wrong. Dont start trying to be right to prove it

Great shame. RIP Marianne

Always admired her gumption and honesty, especially after reading her autobiography, which is a cracker. 'Broken English' is a superb album.

A) I am waiting to see if I can sell rather than loan unwanted players. Or insist on an obligation to buy, rather than straight loan.
B) I am making sure I don't get a pile of injuries ahead of the closing window that forces a club back into the market.
C) I am waiting to see if I've qualified out of champions league or europa groups, as that will impact the financials, and force me to dump wages. This only happened tonight/yesterday.
D) I am looking at where my club is. Are we getting relegated, can we win something, can we get promoted, is there a new manager that's looking at players previously out the picture.
E) all the above goes into why there's activity at the end of window, and why most are loans.

And that's just loans.

Brian (#630) has given up but I'll give it a go with the proviso I could be 100% wrong.

Firstly it is confusing because there are multiple footballing authorities involved each with different loan rules.

But basically the Premier League's position is that you can only loan in 2 English based (I think the term is "homegrown") players at any one time and a maximum of 4 players of any jurisdiction throughout the season.

So either a team could loan in throughout a season 4 English based players but it would have to be for example two for the first half of the season and two for the second half. (Other machinations are obviously available)

Alternatively you could loan in two English and two "foreign" players for all of the season. Other machinations are again available but this obviously tends to be the more popular choice.

In a previous life I used to be involved in trying to decipher regulations like this and I often found it useful to look at the outcomes and work back.

"Transfermarket" has a list of players currently on loan in the Premier League. No team has more than 4 loans and no team has more than 2 "English/Homegrown" and/or 2 "foreign" players.

If I've got this wrong ToffeeWebbers, I'd love to know but please be gentle...

PS..now I know why Brian gave up!

Some people are just too thick to understand THAT'S why I gave up.

For those reasons there are not many players who have moved that (a) we might have been vaguely able to afford and (b) who would have made us better.

Possibly only :

Wahi (CF) to Frankfurt

Kayode (RB) to Brentford

Bierith (CF) to Monaco

Rensch (RB) to Roma

Skov Olsen (RW) to Wolfsburg

Esse (AM) to Palace

Philogene (LW) to Ipswich

Diao (RW) to Como

And its pretty obvious why we wouldn't have been first choice in each case too. Indeed we were priced out by Ipswich for Philogene.

I read the regulations same as you from the off but to be fair it can be confusing in how it's reported.

Be interested in your views on my post #599

Am I reading it wrong?

You are a knob !

Very, very close, and I'll give you a cigar but no light!

As Ian said earlier, a club can only have a maximum of four players on loan at any one time.

The maximum number of Domestic loans at any one time is two. BUT both must be from different clubs e.g. we couldn't loan two players from Chelsea at once.

The maximum number of Domestic loans you can register in one season is four.

The only way you can loan four Domestic players is as here;

2 Domestic players loaned from the Summer Window to the Winter Window.

Then both Domestic players would have to be released/recalled.

At that point, then 2 more Domestic players can be loaned from the Winter Window until June 30th. (There is the possibility of a longer period, but that is a very, very rare exception!)

Regards Non-Domestic loans, if you have 2 Domestic Loans, then because of the rule you cannot have 4 loan players at any one time, you may register 2

Non-Domestic loans, to bring the total to four.

IF you do not loan any Domestic players, you may then loan up to 4 Non-Domestic players, or if you only have 1 Domestic loan, you may have 3 Non-Domestic loans.

Simon#650.

I don't think Ian said that Simon.

I take it you are referring to Ian's post @ 619?

Six overseas, or Non-Domestic temporary transfers! Yes please... 😀🤞💙

"As Ian said earlier, a club can only have a maximum of four players on loan at any one time."

He didn't. He suggested that clubs could have a maximum of four English/Homegrown players on loan and and additional number of foreign players.

That's inaccurate and nothing you've posted supports Ian's claims.

Sensai don't smoke unless in protest.

Why I put Ian is because I'm very, very tired! 🥱

I was not, nor am I trying to support Ian's claims, because they are utter non-sense!

See my comment at 655

I was supporting yourself, and Brian opposing Ian's claim.

However, you both got a B+ for not quite nailing the loan regulation.

Re your post at 599. The PL will consider clubs requests to terminate loans until the END of the Winter Window.

A club cannot recall or release a player on loan (a Temporary Transfer) until the start of the Winter Window i.e. 1st January.

You cannot release or recall a player until the Window is open or June 30th UNLESS asking for special dispensation to continue a loan AFTER June 30th.

So there Sensei!! Yah-boo-shucks to you! 🫡

nb And it's not English or Homegrown players; it is Domestic players, how else could we have Broja who is Albanian classed as a Domestic loan, he's not English and he's not Homegrown, he plays in our Domestic League Structure.

Sorry that's just a pet peeve!!

Except in sniper school. 🎯

I can give you an A for comment 499 way back!

"Lots of "football manager" gaming going on on this thread. Just going round in circles.

Why not just wait and see?" 😉

I see what you did there Mark, very ingenious; and witty too! 😂

Just askin' 😉👍

Tiredness is a state of mind...not an excuse.

Pretty much what I was saying way back #599 when no-one was arsed.

The Premier League doesn't refer to "Domestic" players...it's "homegrown"

Feck the B+ Brian.#665..I want a recount.

(Too much training Simon?)

I've done the recount Brendan, and you won't like it, but it appears that Brian has out-done and you only got a straight B (for arguing back!)

I'm going to be away for a while, I'm off to read the relevant PLHB section... again!

PS My bl00dy legs are killing me!

Brian & I were playing 2-4-True formation.

As long as some one wins...

And of course bringing in Rob as guest star is genius.

Simon who?

They'd have to get rid of the Cockney cowboys bit, of course

I don't think we are able to bring any loans in as I think we have the allowed quota, that would only change if Chelsea or Lyon allowed us to send Broja and Mangala back, which seems highly unlikely. I am sure Moyes and Thelwell are very aware that any permanent signings will effect our PSR position, so they may decide to keep their powder dry and not bring anyone in till the next window opens in August. With Beto being the only fit striker it is a risk, but as you say a win tomorrow will maybe be when the defining decision will be made. Just on PSR, I cant understand why the Premier league clubs havent wanted the £105 over budget over 3 years hasnt changed since they brought in PSR in some years back. seems inflation has never considered.

A big loss losing Mangala, but we have Iroegbunam, Garner and Harrison Armstrong that can see us through.

The main area is a striker, time for Beto to stand up and let’s be honest, the first half of the season we went with Calvert- Lewin isolated, all Beto has to do is chip in with a goal or two and continue getting support around him.

Ndiaye could be our new Tim Cahill, playing just behind the striker, that worked out well with a lone striker in front of him, the added bonus is we can give the likes of Sherif and Benjamin a run out, may have been a different outcome if we lay 1 point outside the drop zone, but now could be a chance for the youngsters to make a contribution and impact, in the forward line squad.

Things may change before 11pm Tuesday, if not we go with what we have,I have a better feeling knowing we have a big forward, and two youngsters who look decent in attack, then a couple of seasons ago when all we had was Maupay as a lone striker.

Let’s try and get the three points tomorrow, then see what happens before Tuesday evening.

Chermiti three to four weeks away from being available.

Moyes said Mangala is going back to France for treatment on his ACL and no mention that Lyon are cancelling his loan agreement, and why would they. I think whats most depressing is although negative spenders in the last few windows, Moyes is saying because of our PSR position he is not able to bring in the players he or the fans would like and hopes the fans understand.
Just shows how badly run this club has been run that we still cant buy who the manager wants because of our terrible PSR position.

The good news is that Moyes believes our PSR position will be improved greatly in the summer, thanks to the new owners. But it very much looks like we bring someone in just to increase the numbers or hold tight till the summer. Moyes also said DCL hamstring isn't as bad as first thought but will still be out for about 8 weeks, and Chermetti is still weeks away. He was asked would he consider playing Michael Keane up front, he said that wouldn't be his first option but didn't rule it out.

You're right, the words "Lyon cancelling the loan agreement" weren't spoken but if you listen from 13:40 it's quite clear that Managala's return may allow another loan to be sorted.

"With Mangala and that loan does that enable you or make it easier to move in terms of the transfer market and then bring in another player?"

Moyes replied in the positive rather than the negative.

That would suggest to me that the loan may be cancelled. And I did say "may" in my original post.

Midfielder on loan?

Alcaraz?

🚨BREAKING! - Everton have agreed a deal to sign Midfielder Carlos Alcaraz on loan from Flamengo with an obligation to buy if conditions are met
Deal was all signed today.
(Source - @fabriziorom)

I saw this as I was trying to find out the loan situation regards Mangala.

This was only posted 16:49 today (31.1) so way after Moyes' presser...

Good news?

See post 689. ;-)

Racing Club (Arg) to Soton
Soton to Juve
Juve to Soton
Soton to Flamengo (Arg)
Flamengo to Everton... TBC

I was probably typing when you submitted.

I also feel a 'mea culpa' post coming on. And an apology to Sam Hoare too...

I only read what Moyes said in his presser, so it looks like you are right and we are now allowed another loan. Have to admit no nothing about Alcaraz, posters saying he is a midfielder, I would have thought a striker would be more beneficial at this time.

Get in, I partly posted this to be #700!