Barry finally scores in scrappy win over Dyche's Forest

Keane for Tim.

Need Garner in there.

Don't be surprised if his leg falls off mind.

He clearly states that he didn't want to move here but his father made it clear that he has a family to support and has to chase the money….

The lad looks so disinterested when he plays,it winds me up. Beto is miles better but we are trying to keep up Barry's value by playing him... 🙄

Come on, you Blues!!! These will let us have the ball and play their counter-attacking game. This is where having such shite focal points will kill us. Come on, Thierno lad!!! He'll get a brace today! I can feel it.

Two keepers as per usual and no trust in youth development.

Your comment on Moyes “lack of faith in the academy” is using the truth to tell a lie.

Or in Moyes's case, the action of omission.

Not putting nine players on the bench in the Premier League is just fucking madness.

Putting two goalkeepers on the bench is fucking madness.

Not using Under-21 players and giving them match experience is fucking madness.

There was... erm, Mustafi (?) and the Spurs centre back, who he wilfully refused to play ahead of Jags and Lescott, and, er.

Yeah.

Our academy is poor. But two keepers frequently that insults fans greatly. If I owned Everton (oh to dream) Moyes would be carpeted, fined and told not to be a belligerent childish twat.

And hard to believe Patterson is a right-back. What is the point of having him if you never want to use him? Might as well have kept JonJoe Kenny.

Then, when we try and offload them, we can say “he's been in the matchday squad” so it's a sales pitch. If we say even if we have no subs we'd rather have an empty bench then how are we ever going to offload them?

Also pleased that Charly Alcaraz is included, may just be the play to set up Barry to break his duck.

Say, the kid who scored 2 in the FA Youth Cup a spot on the bench presently in use by the Invisible Man even if it is a case of "why not" rather than "why"?

Come on chaps it's possible for Pickford and another keeper to get injured, not very likely granted but we look daft playing half a game without a recognised keeper.

Moyes has gone for players he trusts again, apart from 2 or 3 lapses, they have performed well.

We don't need centre-backs beasting our forwards at home!!!!

Get Beto on and Milenkovic won't play those games.

I love the lad. Yessssssssssssss!!!

I thought the early yellow for the Forest player was a bit harsh and I wasn't even sure there was a connection made.

The handball denied made me wonder about the Tarkowski one some time ago and, being kind, the least you can say is that there's very little consistency in the refereeing.

Also, I found the inscription on Dyche's trackie top "next" quite amusing.

No football to enjoy but that result, if it stays the same or more, will be enough for me to savour.

As soon as Ndyiae took off, you could see Barry's face light up and he took off like a rocket knowing it was his chance to break his duck. I was nervous but it was a lovely finish.

Maybe we can get a few more. I remember Norman Whiteside terrorizing these in the late 80s and it ended up 4-0 but I'm sure Dyche has other ideas.

In a game of mass mistakes and hardly any football being played by either team...

I was really struggling to adequately describe what was not happening out there, Dave.

Barry on the first step to a hat-trick!

What a ridiculous description.

Michael Kenrick never mistaken for a ray of sunshine

Now... how long will it take for the automatic table update to show???

Secondly, I'm heartily fed up with Michael Kenrick's bitterness and resentment to David Moyes -- he operates the site like this gives him the right to inflict his one-sided views on Everton fans who just want to celebrate some success.

Shame on you. It's no longer ToffeeWeb -- it's become AntiMoyesweb.

Delighted, especially for Barry, and up to 5th. A couple of players back for Chelsea to strengthen the squad.

While it was a good win, it was hardly inspiring. Brazil we ain't but 3 points it is.

How about Jack and Jimmy G too?

Scrappy, lucky, only beating the teams we should etc.

I don't get it, support the team instead of moaning all the time, tedious beyond belief.

Trying to create divisions on what should be a celebratory thread.

Scrappy, take a break, Mike.

I will take that every week... COYBs

Someone said were only winning the games we should. Oh yeah? We've won once at Old Trafford in about 30 years before last week. Bournemoth away, we never win there.

Do these people take pleasure from being so effing miserable?
Give credit where it is due. Moan when appropriate.

Michael, you are doing a great job keeping the site afloat but you do let yourself down with some of the same old biased comments. You are on par with Darren on the wind up front.

Well, I know one thing: we can all forget the R word now.

Tell it the way you see it, I do. I like to win but I also want to see us again do it in style. What was that Danny Blanchflower thing again and why are the "Holy Trinity" so revered?

I had a similar discussion some years ago on another site with somebody who said that Everton should aim to finish 10th. My answer was aiming for 10th and just missing puts you in a relegation fight, aiming for the top and just missing gets you European football.

Mediocrity isn't the answer, nor the motto.

The divisions are already there, some of the pre-game comments were ridiculous as are those damning with faint praise subsequently. It's tiring to read. A great result just enjoy it as you suggest. I'm delighted anyway.

Paul Kossoff #46 was that red comment at me? Give your head a wobble if so, pathetic.

What about Barry's brilliant first goal! That was admittedly a rare moment where football did break out momentarily and the boy finally scored off a great breakaway driven by Ndiaye.

Anything else of note? Dewsbury-Hall, he did well, made one, scored one.

But just be grateful I'm not doing that daft thing of marks out of 10.

Who doesn't want to see the team win with style? Expecting this to do so right now will result in continuing disappointment.

With better players (and yes, manager) we can... but be realistic in where we are coming from. Winning, however, gives you room to improve.

As an aside, I used to go to primary school with an Ellis Iddon, any relation?

How the fuck do you think that was aimed at you when all are having a go at Mike K? Isn't it obvious who I was talking to?

Give your head a wobble.

Forest sort of threw the towel in though Pickford made one great save. Could have had a few more. Dewsbury-Hall was great, Ndiaye also everyone else was okay.

Solid win but some of our players need to sort their barnets out.

Paul #56 it was the use of Michael/Mike, I'm easily confused. My head is duly wobbling….

Totally dominant performance with plenty of quality.

Credit to the team today and Dewsbury-Hall is becoming invaluable.

A question for today's match goers. Headline seems harsh, was it really scrappy?

We didn't play amazing football, yet performed amazingly!!!!
The will and desire is there, they are playing for each other. Yes, Newcastle done us a number... Spurs too, but it's a long season and we will lose games.

Considering neither of our strikers have more than 1 goal, then even a small uptick from either of them could convert to a lot of points.

All positive!!!

Great reaction since the Newcastle match, credit to Moyes and the players for not letting that be the start of a tailspin.

Top 6 with bollocks strikers and slow defenders. A winner that gets relegated?

A winner that gets relegated?

5th place, not top six.

Moyes has been back for 34 games and we have got 55 points. Over the last 38 fixtures we have 60 points -- which would be good enough for 7th.

We have scored 17 more and conceded 15 less in those 34 games than we did the previous time we played those teams.

This is looking be typical Everton fans. Scrape safety and we moan. Get to middle table and we moan, get a European spot and we moan, win the league and we moan because the football was not as good as 69-70 or 84-85. There are thousands of spouses and partners utterly delighted because they won't have the spouse and partner moaning and being depressed come March to May.

Yes, we might be tense if we do not make a European place -- but I would rather be depressed about that than worried about being in the Bottom 5.

And no, I'm not pissed... yet!!!

As much as l'm pleased for Barry scoring with a really good finish, l still don't see a footballer in there. That's as negative as l'm going to be.

A great 3 points, great position in the table, great the shite fucked up... and a large great whiskey to be polished off. UTFT!!

“Scrappy win”???

Seriously?? Fuck me!

Moyes and the boys deserve great credit as it was important to get the first goal early so that they could not just bank up against us. Had we not started well, it could have been a tough game; as it was, it was very comfortable.

This is a greater win than many are giving credit for.

Just a little stat for our Thierno Barry, who has just been labelled as bollox. He has started in 8 games, where we have won 6, drawn 1 and lost 1. When Beto starts, we have won 1, drawn 2 and lost 4.

He has taken a lot of stick but he's clearly a team player and is starting to get chances every game now as his team mates are starting to understand him better.

Delighted for him to get his first goal... hopefully there are many more to come.

We still need better players, but what we have is a good grafting group. The midfield coped well against Elliot Anderson, who I rate. Whilst Hutchinson was lively, he was out of the game for large chunks.

I'd like to see 2 proper full-backs that would go forward. A couple of times Grealish looked to play Mykolenko in, but the just didn't anticipate where he needed to be. Similar on O'Brien. He stands way off Ndiaye, and offers zero support on the attack. The crosses lack any ball shift, and are telegraphed into defenders' blocks regularly. Oh for a Leighton Baines in his pomp.

I'm going to make a comment on the classless Forest fans. Came, sang some poverty chanting, and then got off 15 minutes from time. Nottingham has its problems like anywhere else. Perhaps think before singing this vile stuff.

Am l right in assuming that Liverpool City Region has a higher GDP and a lower umemployment rate than Nottingham?

We may not win the league but, 'kin'ell, they make me feel good! UTFT

Hoping for the future headline -- ‘The weight for a loss continues after Barry hat-trick'

“Poverty chanting?” That's a bit rich from Nottingham fans.

A group of people whose hero is a common thief who went around robbing goods from taxpayers to feed a bunch of layabouts squatting in Sherwood Forest.

Forest fans are an embarrasment and they need to wind it in with their dogshit chanting of scousers.

Dewsbury-Hall in his preferred box to box role was immense today, MOTM by a country mile, what a player he is at the moment.

At the other end of the scale was Alcaraz, anonymous in the first half except for 3 10-yard passes to our centre-backs and 2 20-yard passes to Pickford, effortlessly turning attack into defense. McNeil was without doubt an improvement when he came on.

Add a left-back that can put a decent cross in, and a decent right-back and we will have a useful team.

Great to see Barry get his first goal today.

And Michael, scrappy win? Dear oh dear, if that's scrappy, I'll have another 20 games like that.

Not sure which documentary of young Barry you found but I found the following;

Link

If we've watched the same, I don't think your interpretation of the man is correct. Anyone else interested can judge.

He starts talking about why he came to Everton around the 18-minute mark.

Having only seen the second half today, can anyone comment on the reception Dyche got? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

I would hope he got a good reception.

I was absolutely delighted for Barry today, tidy finish as well. I'm really impressed with Dewsbury-Hall, he's beginning to become our most important player as far as om concerned. He's up and down the pitch, uses the ball well and is becoming a regular scorer from midfield which is a big help to the team.

He's turning out to be a bargain at £30M; surely Tuchel is keeping an eye on him for the England squad for the World Cup.

It's great to be slugging it out at the top of the table and to see the RS struggling, Nice pen by DCL. UTFT

I will start that chant at the next home game.

Number: 22, Dewsbury-Hall -- Average rating 9.00

Number: 11, Barry -- Average Rating: 8.33
Number: 10, Ndiaye -- Average Rating: 8.33
Number: 37, Garner -- Average Rating: 8.17
Number: 18, Grealish -- Average Rating: 8.15
Number: 24, Alcaraz -- Average Rating: 7.86
Number: 15, O'Brien -- Average Rating: 7.86
Number: 6, Tarkowski -- Average Rating: 7.86
Number: 5, Keane -- Average Rating: 7.84
Number: 16, Mykolenko -- Average Rating: 7.63
Number: 1, Pickford -- Average Rating: 7.55
Number: 20, Dibling -- Average Rating: 7.32
Number: 7, McNeil -- Average Rating: 7.21
Number: 9, Beto -- Average Rating: 7.02

Not bad ratings for scrappy.

I take it as he was happy at Villarreal and playing in the Champions League, but his father made him move to England for the money. Hence why he always looks so unhappy.

Just how I read it, of course.

But this Forest team are no mugs and did the shite 3-0 at Mordor. Funny how everyone we beat seems to have their worst game of the season.

We weren't beautiful today but we were efficient and energetic. Nobody was fantastic but there were no poor performances either. It could have been more than 3 and we were never in danger.

Anyone else smile when Tarkowski did that dribble forward, then when he backed off Keane took over? I'm as guilty as (almost) anyone when it comes to criticizing Moyes' overly defensive style, but it was nice to see our centre-backs going for the throat there.

Forest complaining that Tarkowski should have seen red after 10 minutes. Whinging owner no doubt leading the charge.

A group of people whose hero is a common thief who went around robbing goods from taxpayers to feed a bunch of layabouts squatting in Sherwood Forest and wiping their arses on leaves, the dirty bastards.

Yes we needed that 2nd goal and I'm pleased for Barry.
And we still won. Dewsbury-Hall had another blinder, could've had a hat-trick. And we won well in the end because he scored the 3rd to wrap it up.

3 points and the weekend's looking good. At times, the Referee made good common-sense decisions -- other times he threw yellow cards about like confetti. But we still won.

Another three points and over the moon for Barry getting his goal -- did he smile? COYB.

Liverpool conceding late was a sweet moment, and to Salah, you'll never walk alone, unless you get a bit older, slow down and don't score a goal a game. You'd be treated a lot differently if you'd won what you did at a proper club.🤷‍♂️

As wide as the Mersey...

Almost as broad as mine.

But for how far we've come from the past several seasons, you can call our wins whatever you want — scrappy, ugly, defensive, this and that — to be this high in the table at this point, despite all of our shortcomings, pretty impressive.

Barry has a long ways to go, but very happy for him. Dewsbury-Hall is class, just a few weeks ago people were calling for him to be dropped for Charly. Garner having a superb season. Jake is huge for us playing out of position, Keane coming back just immense. Ndiaye such a pleasure to watch.

Even when Jack has an off match, he creates big chances and slows the game down. We all know where we need to improve, but it's time everyone give Moyes the credit he deserves, because the numbers don't lie.

Lastly, Tarkowski really was lucky to get away with that shoulder. Away from home, against a Sky Six team, they could have justified another stupid violent conduct. But not today. UTFT.

Other than the three goals, Grealish set up Dewsbury-Hall to hit the outside of the post; he also cut one back across when Garner might have done better; plus the lovely little dribble by Ndiaye, which the keeper tipped over the bar.

Three goals, another three very good chances missed, and three midfielders, providing the springboard because they helped us to play with a lot more energy than our opponents, and also higher up the pitch.

The early goal settled us. I thought it helped us to play higher up the pitch. But so did Barry, who did a lot of unselfish running. So like everyone else, I'm delighted he got his rewards today.

Historically I have great respect for Forest but, reading on here about their fans today, I hope they go down.

Scrappy? What did you mean by writing that? We could've scored easily 3 more goals. Enlighten me, please, I'm dazed and confused.

Dewsbury-Hall is a Number 8, sky clear. So happy for Barry, although he is too lightweight, I suspect. Time will tell.

None of the goals could be called scrappy maybe the first was a bit lucky but I thought we played through the lines quite well today.

Apart from that, I never ever thought we would have 24 points and be 5th... COYB

I understand Michael's headline because we scrapped our way to the points. We won the battles. That started within 0.22 mins and didn't stop.

UTFT. Well played. Great game.

When both retired, Steve Waugh said: 'Everyone talks about my brother and his '20 beautiful Centuries'. No-one talks about me and my 32 'scrappy' ones!

I'm happy to take the points. Brazil 1970 we are not. Yet!

It seemed a tad odd to me to take off Barry with a third of the game to go. But it all worked out well in the end.

Giving them all a 'must do better' after a three-nil win Michael #53?

I don't think either team played poorly. I think it was scrappy cause neither side gave the other any quarter. There were a lot of well-timed tackles, there were a number of accidental handballs as committed players put their bodies on the line. It was full blooded and, in that sense, inherently scrappy.

But in my mind that's not a criticism -- it's actually a compliment to the commitment level of both teams.

Ultimately, we showed more class, creating and converting more chances. Forest battled hard. Hutchison showed some skill but mostly they were a hard-working group doing their best.

No lack of effort from either team. Good game.

I don't think for one second it was a red card but it was a stupid and unnecessary action from one of our senior statesmen hot on the heels of Gana's red card that should have been avoided.

We need these old lads to set an example not do stupid things.

The Forest scabs where doing the poverty chanting at The Old Lady last season. I used to have a Cloughy soft spot for them -- despite one of their greasy twats gobbing on me outside the Park End in the first game of the season, I believe it was after they got back up to the top flight.

I want to see them go down now, even sweeter with the three hard-boiled eggs in charge.

As for Moyes's use of the academy, he has the team in 5th, has Dewsbury-Hall, Ndiaye, Grealish and Garner playing exceptionally well and boasts a defensive that, although made up of 3 centre-backs, two of whom are veterans, concedes very few goals.

Not in any way ready to say the season is a success, but look at the turnaround from last year! TFG must be happy with how it's going so far!

They went around, as they used to say, kicking anything that moved and shouting at anything that didn't. And there were quite a few of them, yarddogs all. Anyone remember Dave Mackay almost ending Jimmy Husband's career with a thigh- almost waist-high tackle?

Careful, Eric(#112), you'll be labelled a whinger, as the Patpong becomes ping-pong. Oh, hang on it was part of the show, wasn't it.

Lovely Sean absolutely fantastic, oh and it was never a 3-0 game, right there snotty nose, it was more a 5-0 game.

I'll say this to Forest fans, get well used to that level of performance under that dinosaur because, believe me, there's plenty more where that came from.

Dewsbury-Hall, Ndiaye, and Garner were outstanding.

So glad Barry finally got off the mark and hopefully he'll go on.

Crowd were good today.

Please sort those fucking toilets out!!!!

I was surprised that Forest shaded the passing stats, and I was surprised they had that many attempts on goal, as territory-wise it felt all Everton.

The front 6, with the exception of Barry, are all fairly lightweight players. But all can play with the ball. At the start of the season, I wasn't convinced on a central midfield of Dewesbury-Hall and Garner. But very happy to eat humble pie on that.

Garner has stepped up his game significantly. No doubt looking for a new contract, but also being the go-to player for the manager. We certainly need more players like that.

Harrison Armstrong scored again for Preston. It could be a very nice midfield 3 of him, Garner and Dewesbury-Hall next season. That looks to have a nice balance about it.

Seriously I don't want to be that fella but it's all a bit snowflake -- not to mention, very Kopite behaviour.

I think James Garner has always stood out as a very capable player. He did with Forest for a full season and he definitely won't be worrying about a new contract.

If Everton don't satisfy his demands, there will be quite a few clubs ready to step in and give him one. He's been on the same relatively low wages since he signed and deserves better treatment than that.

Alan (118), I think you are too sensible to call Dave Mackay a yard dog, he was an exceptional player, and although it was a bad foul on Jimmy Husband, Jimmy was up and playing not long after that incident.

So Graham, it is most definitely not erm snowflake erm Kopite - that's pathetic - behaviour.

I spent $1,365 to fly for my first game at HDS and a lovely 24 hours in Crosby and my flight back to Chicago leaves in 2 hours. The Forest fans were textbook morons yesterday. I heard it. It is legitimate comment. They did it last season as well.

Not your finest moment on here, Mocky, but I still value you.

Snowflake. Kopite. I'll be chuckling as I board the plane.

Yes, Tarkowski was very stupid and I wouldn't have been surprised if he was sent off

What about the rest of his game? Brilliant, with a real captain's performance giving instructions out at corners and free kicks.

I hope you noticed when he saved Pickford's cock-up, there was no screaming and shouting at him like it has been in the past when the positions were reversed.

I said the more they play, the more they'll learn, and this is exactly how it's looking with regard to James Garner, who is definitely thriving with having better footballers around him now.

Hopefully Jarrad can return soon because it will definitely allow us to play higher up the pitch and let our “energetic midfielders” (going on today's game) go and win a lot more of those battles, even if none of them are really physically imposing.

Just like in the mid-eighties, the best place to learn is by looking at our neighbours, who have just had a very good few years, because they played with more “energy”, than their opponents.

Fast forward to today, and whilst we enjoy the fallout of the Salah, meltdown, I had the pleasure of listening to Radio Merseyside, at the end of their game yesterday, (they're all in meltdown, and yes Everton beating a team who have just put three past Liverpool, got a mention) while they were busy blaming anyone, none of them mentioned how they are simply not playing with the same “energy or intensity” that brought the bastards a lot of success.

That's how I see it anyway, because in a sport were you can't really tackle anymore, then you have got to be able to run, and also no surprises that I agree with James Marshall, instead of the hypersensitive modern human being.

Feed the scousers -- just look around our £1 Billion stadium, and fuckn laugh at them!

For me, the best footballing side / season was 1968-69. We were a joy to watch and were appreciated by football fans of other clubs too. Obviously with one exception.

1969-70 was wonderful obviously... but with a bit more steel and the mentality to grind out results when necessary. As well as the Holy Trinity, we had unsung players such as Tommy Jackson and Sandy Brown adding that touch of grit.

Brazil would have given us a good game... 😉

I'm not questioning the factual accuracy of the chant or whether it reflects changing socio-economic trends...

It's a fucking football chant.

Try a band, who I'm sure you will have a lot of time for, singing “That's Entertainment” and “In The Crowd”.

I'm glad you got to witness our fantastic new stadium mate. With 20 minutes left, I remember looking around seeing all the happy smiling faces, in a setting “fit for kings” and I thought to myself, they need to improve the logistics, but I fucking love this ground!

Link

I thought Dewsbury-Hall and Garner were outstanding, nullifying both Gibbs-White and Anderson, who were both picked for England under Tutchel, and the pair actually ran the game from start to finish.

We missed some golden opportunities; had we taken our chances, we could have easily scored 5 -- not bad for a scrappy performance.

As for Moyes's lack of faith in the academy players, it's because they aren't good enough and maybe naming 2 keepers was to send a message to the owners: "I inherited a shit show of club, our academy isn't fit for purpose. That's why I have sent the decent lads out on loan to get game time."

I think there are many on ToffeeWeb who just won't give credit for the job Moyes is doing. Match of the Day showed a stat that, since he has come back, he has us in 8th place level on points with the 7th and 6th club. He has just won back-to-back away games at Bournemouth, where no Everton manger has ever won, and at Old Trafford, where we very rarely win.

We are 5th in the Premier League; yes, it's close for the top 10 positions, but just enjoy being able to look at the table and not have to worry about teams in the relegation zone overtaking us.

Watching Forest yesterday was like watching us under the same manager: back and across football despite having some decent players. I'm delighted he is no longer managing us, forcing us to watch his turgid type of football he excels at.

It's all going a bit David Icke over in the anti-Moyes camp.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Everton move up to 5th in the table.

Incidentally I went onto a Forest site and their fans find the chant of "Scab!" equally infuriating. Job done!

We need to keep hold of them, the usual suspects will eyeing them already.

I thought McNeil looked sharp when he came on; he did well.
Next two games look tough but I wouldn't put it past us at the moment to get points from those fixtures.

Oh, and anyone bad-mouthing Moyes needs to start watching another sport.

veryone is entitled to their opinion but I do think he is not given enough credit by some.

A very old friend of mine is a Spurs fan and he even commented to me recently how good we are to watch this season. We finally have some actual footballers who play football yet people still think we're awful. And we're 5th after 15 games!

If we had a better striker up top we could well be even higher. I also think our squad is half decent, with McNeil and Alcaraz both doing well in recent games. We obviously still lack in certain areas (right back/striker) but, given that we lost Gana and Iroegbunam in the space of a few days, I thought we were excellent yesterday.

Grealish looked a bit tired but that's understandable. On the plus side, we've shown we can cope without Gana in the middle, and a special mention has to go to James Garner who's been really good -- his corners have caused mayhem as well.

It remains to be seen how much we miss Ndiaye but McNeil and Dibling can come in and play wide right so we at least have options nowadays. And we're looking up instead of down -- that's the main thing.

Supposedly on £30k, Dewesbury Hall on £90k... reasonable to expect parity or near it.

No matter what Dyche said, Garner was playing well with poor players around him at Forest and Everton.

I think he is helping players to thrive at Everton, including all the players who have come this season. Ndiaye has thrived since he got here.

As well as Dewsbury-Hall has played in the last five games, Garner and Ndiaye have been playing brilliantly most of the season. Yet strangely Ndiaye has plenty of critics on here even though like Garner he is one of the lesser-paid players on the books.

He has got 2 years left on his contract —- show him some appreciation by upping his wages now. He is getting envious eyes cast at him by other clubs — reward him now and Everton might feel the benefit of that gesture in the future.

His recent return to Everton has seen a significant upturn in form. Since his re-appointment, Moyes has accumulated 38 points in the Premier League, which would extrapolate to a 38-game total of 62 points at that time.

62 points would have secured 8th last season.

He has been getting slaughtered on social media.

Twice in the last few games he has gotten away with it -- time for Moyes to have a word, me thinks -- he won't get away with it a third time.

Pay those guys!

A great performance by the blues displaying all of the grit and determination that is so important in the modern game. Not only does a team need class, it needs fighters to be successful.

We showed all of those attributes against Forest. The hard part is maintaining it over the course of the season.

It is a new space, new standards, mate!

Hopefully that doesn't apply to the many people like myself who have just been wanting him to start using and integrating more of the players he has already got into his squad, mate?

I'm glad I read your next post because I have always had you down as someone who is not always so judgmental, Raymond.

Even if you were, I'd still go on anyway because I don't believe we are that far away and it has definitely become a squad game, says the scratched record that I've become on this issue!

Let's be clear the Fulham and Forest games especially have seen dominant performances, the like we haven't seen many this year. It's very encouraging that we have created a few chances in these games which has been an obvious flaw in the way we have generally been set up. We have also shown great character and mentality in the main something the manager can take responsibility for.

Four wins in five games is excellent form and bodes well going into the| next couple of difficult fixtures. I think Moyes deserves a lot of credit for this form and may even deserve manager of the month.

But let's also be fair that two weeks ago we were 14th and those jumping for joy about being 5th will need to cool their jets as everything is so tight and others have still to play their games this weekend.

It's also fair to argue that we have had a lot of luck with the timing of fixtures and this is not detracting from anything but it's a cold hard fact. In addition we have also been quite lucky with injuries in comparison to many we have faced although perhaps Moyes and his team could also be partly responsible for that too.

It is also fair to say that at times Moyes has been guilty of not taking the bull by the horns especially in games like our neighbours, Villa and West Ham when these teams were there for the taking.

Obviously its very exciting to see us in 5th place but we know the reality that those teams like Palace, Forest, Newcastle and Spurs have coughed up a lot of points due to their European commitments and no doubt these sides will improve in the second half of the season unless they go deep into their competitions.

For me Moyes hasn't been convincing this season. I think the common consensus is that we have a squad capable of finishing between 8th and 13th. If we were to finish in 8th then justifiably Moyes advocates (some of whom have only popped up in this thread) would be vindicated for their unwavering loyalty. If we finish tenth or eleventh I would view it pretty average, and considering the adverse effect he has on our younger players, I would view it as disappointing, anything on the bottom end of the spectrum will surely see his P45 in the summer.

There is everything to play for now and a win in one of our next two games and we really can start to dream and maybe we may all start hailing the Moyesiah.

Of course it was scrappy. Moyes was up against a manager who is even better than he is at spoiling games. This was always going to be attritional. Luckily scoring in the first and last minute of the first half meant we were able to go in with a cushion.

Having acquired more intelligent players we don't seem to shit ourselves when we take the lead like we used to. Our game management is far from perfect, but it is so much better than it used to be and we ran out comfortable winners.

Not for the first time Tony A sums it up. We had to earn the right and I'm delighted to say, we earned it.

I'm delighted we're 5th and I'm enjoying the moment but I'm under no illusions we will finish so high. I'll be happy with a mid-table finish and the FA Cup. But nothing less. We have to win that cup. Then Moyes can walk away a hero with his head held high and make way for a new, attack-minded coach.

But I hate this Moyesiah / Moyes Dinosaur polarised argument. Let's just enjoy what looks like a jeopardy-free season, with the caveat that we win that fucking cup!

Disappointed that the announcer didn't welcome back Dyche. Forest were definitely scrappy but we played some good stuff thanks to Dewsbury-Hall and Garner.

To bring on McNeil instead of Dibling at 2-0 was poor. Obviously can't say typical Moyes as some of the aggressive posters we have at the moment will take offence.

Hewey, your predictive skills have not always been the best but this might be even for you a real clanger. Or has the beast been unleashed? We'll find out soon enough,

With Everton finally leading a home game 3-0, Moyes thought it might be okay for Tyler Dibling to be risked for the last 5 minutes.

I can't stop laughing!

My second love after Everton FC.

I appreciate what Tarkowski brings every match as a leader and his physicality and willingness to put his body on the line to block shots. And his save off the goal line was massive yesterday, because at 2-1 that match would've been far less comfortable to see out. So credit where it's due. But again, he was lucky to be on the pitch at that point.

But I said before the season started that our best centre-back pairing would be Jake and Jarrad. For obvious reasons, that won't happen this season, but I hope they start the first match next season, with Keane back for another year and Tarkowski the elder statesman on the bench.

That means we have a new right-back, which -- if we don't -- would be absolutely criminal.

My larger point is Tarkowski is now too slow, too prone to mistakes, and not good enough for where we want to be. If he's playing, I'm happy enough, but he's still a liability. Kind of like the Michael Keane of years past.

'Our best centre-back pairing would be Jake and Jarrad. For obvious reasons that won't happen this season. '

Why could this not happen, Johnathan, if Branthwaite gets back to match fitness? Or do you mean that O'Brien would never replace Tarkowski?

Dave(#123); Dave Mackay was a marvelous player when part of that Spurs halfback line with Blanchflower and Norman which at the time was second only to our own but in later years he was not much more than a hatchetman at Derby.

Real shame, but it was probably inevitable. Had some great after-match sessions in there.

If???? ... If???? What sort of an argument is that?

If the Forest player hadn't planted a header past his own keeper.

If the referee stopped the game like he should have done when it touched him in the lead up to Barry's goal.

If Pickford didn't make a brilliant save from a shot which went through Tarkowski's legs.

If Tarkowski didn't make a last-ditch block.

And if Tarkowski hadn't stopped a certain goal from under his own crossbar... It could have all been so different.
There will be Forest fans offering up the 'if' argument, but only the exceptionally stupid ones.

If you had been paying attention, you would be giving the Everton players the credit they deserve for earning the right to play after winning what was an incredibly scrappy battle.

If you had not posted that Darren mate, I wouldn't have known your thoughts on this.

Hope your'e well Darren and PH.

Frank Lampard will be managing in the Premier League next season and in seven seasons' time. You will be in great health in 2036.

England will win a test in Australia in the next 12 years. Darren and MK will go on a bro holiday together to Scarborough next year.

Did it?? I didn't see that. I'll have to watch it back but made up on Barry's behalf that it was allowed.

Was it a beautiful game with free flowing football? No. But that's where the increase in quality within our team comes into it. Not only did the boys win, they scored 3 goals. Roll back a season and we'd have lost, probably not even drawn the game.

We're also sitting in 6th place in the league. Yes, things can improve further, but that's always the case. We were lucky at points throughout the game but we've also had games where we've not been so lucky.

Let's take the win and move forward!

He joined Derby County when they were in the Second Division and was joint Footballer of the Year, with Tony Book, when Derby were promoted to the First Division the same season.

Yes, he was used as a sweeper by Clough to convert the ball from defence to attack with his football intelligence. He was a hard man throughout his career but that was alongside his very good football brain.

I remember one foggy day game at Goodison, one of Alex Young's first games for the Blues, when following a corner for us in a packed penalty area, McKay calmly headed the ball back, over many heads to his goalkeeper.

Spurs won that game 3-1 by the way — admittedly in a truly great Spurs footballing team.

Who was the ref, Tierney? He hasn't got much good history with Everton, and I think he bottled it, although I think it's a rule that needs looking at in certain situations because if he had pulled it back with the ball very much in Everton's court, then it wouldn't have gone down well inside the stadium.

He apparently said that the ball never hit him and I've read another version that says it was inconclusive, but it did look like it brushed the ref, from my seat but I suppose it's just another one of those “ifs”.

There was no change in the spin or trajectory of the ball as it passed him.

But you and I never seem to see the same thing, so there we have it!

Add that to the fact that all PGMOL refs are scrupulously honest and... err... wait a minute. I think I lost the thread there somewhere.

Tarkowski has struggled this season, I doubt he wouldn't have played as much if it wasn't out of necessity because he wasn't 100% fit after that hamstring injury last season.

Your opinion that he was like the Keane of old... I'm not having that at all — I think, like a lot of fans, you're forgetting the many years of the way Keane performed compared to the better way he is performing this season.

That old Keane is still there but getting away with his mistakes mostly and his couple of goals adds to the gloss on him. But he will never perform as consistenly as Tarkowski has since he came here.

You want Keane back for another season after this one? Keep watching him, Jonathon, those two ridiculous attempted overhead kicks on Saturday showed me that the old Keane has never gone away.

I'm just making the point that according, to your definition, it would indeed have been a scrappy five-nil win, which I think is a bit mad.

I don't think I've ever heard of a scrappy five-nil win, or a scrappy three-nil win for that matter, until this weekend.

But anyway, next season I hope we'll see Branthwaite and O'Brien as our centre-back pairing as an ever younger Everton make further strides up the ladder. I've said it many times already but this new stadium is a massive game-changer for our club.

It was just a storm in a teacup, slapping him was a woman's style.

On the scrappy description, most games are littered with mistakes — even what we would call good performances.

The only crowd that ever got to him was Everton, closely followed by Stoke! I'd love to ask him if certain grounds never counted, unless he never refereed at Anfield or Old Trafford, the dirty, filthy, lying ex-policeman!

That's entertainment comes third, to Down In The Tubestation, with English Rose my own particular favourite, Paul. It's a song that would make a much better English national anthem than the shite that is currently sang.

Would you prefer Kante (Liverpool)? Apparently they are willing to let him go in January, hoping they will get a few bob for him. (I stress the word 'hoping'.)

The media have been telling us for some time that Kante and Van Dijk are the fastest centre-backs in the Premier League.

I would hate to see the slowest.

Ah, the national anthem. It causes plenty of arguments.

I remember being in a pub in town with five or six of my mates when this fella, well bevvied, kicked off about the Royal Family. None of us cared much about them but one of my mates started singing “God Save Our Gracious Queen”... we all stood up laughing and joined in along with a few more of the customers. Give him his due, the drunken nark started laughing and joined in as well!

God save a man with big ears, who talks to plants? How fucking depressing.

I think if you listen to plenty of Liverpool fans, they would gladly let Van Dijk, as well as Konate, be on his way. I hope they keep them both, they are part of Liverpool's problem, so I hope Slot stays as well and keeps their very poor performances on the go.

Liverpool definitely need a centre-back so it wouldn't upset me if they signed Michael Keane!

And we're talking about the hard fought 3-0 victory attended by over 52,000 and watched by millions around the world on the box. Not the free-flowing scrap-free 5-0 victory which was played out in your imagination... Nobody else saw that one.

And if you have never heard of a scrappy 3-0 win, I can only assume you are new to this footy lark.

Liverpool have bid £30M plus Konate in an attempt to sign Mark Guehi in the January transfer window.

Palace are rumoured to be holding out for the £30M only.

Tony Book was another one. I was at Maine Road (midweek game) I think about 10 days before the 1968 Cup Final when he kicked Howard Kendall in the head as he lay on the ground which put him in hospital. Was that the year they were going to scare the arse off Europe?

We, a mate and I, were walking down from the ground when we were almost surrounded, there was a brick wall behind us, by City fans who said, "Take the scarves off or you die" to which my mate replied, "We'll die before that now who wants it first?" at which they all dispersed.

I also remember that when we got to the bar in the train station, I ordered two half-and-halfs for which the barmaid charged us 1s/3d, so we had two more each.

On the other matter, Scooby Doo was shite after Scrappy joined.

I've an idea that the foggy Spurs game you mention was Young's debut, delayed by his injuries and National Service.

He probably should have scored with a header in the second half at the Gwladys Street End.

Seriously foggy night. Friday Night game I think.

Dave 170, I give Tarkowski the credit where it's due. He's a warrior and the fact he didn't miss a match for years until the hamstring, then came back as quickly as he did — remarkable.

And I agree: Keane is still a liability, but when healthy and given a run of matches, this season I see him and Tarkowski as level in terms of my fears that they'll either do something stupid, make an errant pass, shank a bouncing ball, get caught ball watching while someone zips past them, or otherwise keeps us too defensive because they lack pace.

They're both massive servants to the club, and as I said, I'd like them both back next season — riding the bench.

Fair enough, I won't argue the difference of them too much, it's nearly Christmas the season of goodwill and peace!

I don't know which part of the world acknowledges that!

You could be right about that game being Alex Young's debut because of the reasons you mentioned, not sure it was a night game though.

Nice to see you posting, Chris, hope you are okay, it's been a while since you posted. I used to enjoy your articles about football and general topics and your life in New Brighton.

Best wishes, Chris, and good health.

If you're an American like me living under a tyrannical monster, it doesn't matter that I don't celebrate Christmas, I will always reach out to others in goodwill and peace.

I think my true religion is as a Blue, and as I rarely come on here to pick fights. We can both agree that 'tis the season of Everton and joy and coming together on ToffeeWeb!

I always thought that Billy doing A New England would be a great national anthem.

I used to love another song about our country which was written by The Waterboys, called "Old England", with the very sad and poignant line about how “children stare with heroin eyes” which was an all too common thing for a lot of people in my neighbourhood, unfortunately.

Keep talking about music, now that Chris W, has shown his face, and after seeing the cup draw, then let's start believing (nobody wins anything significant without having real belief) and practicing the words to “our song”.

“We Shall Not Be Moved”, might be sung by many, but it's most definitely an Evertonian song.🍀💙

Definitely always better to reach out with goodwill and peace no matter what time of the year it is. You live in a mad country when it comes to picking and electing an egotistical monster like Trump who has just been given an honour for bringing peace to the world which proves that there are madmen all over place honouring this fella with this award.

I agree entirely with the last two lines of your post — see you at Wembley for the final of the FA Cup!

If ever there were to be some joy for me given this horror show in America this past year, it would be celebrating with tens of thousands of Blues at Wembley, alongside my family.

Sure was and it surprised me at the time as half a pint was supposed to be a shilling never mind two and two shorts. For those not from that foreign country, 1s/3d is about 7p.

Cheers Dave, I'm ok, so far so good is my mantra these days. You ok?

You're probably right about that Spurs match not being a night match. Probably that thick bleeding fog confusing me. Carey was still the manager then, and Wiggy scored our goal, in for Vernon, I think.

Tony(190)
Yes, keep on with the music, mate, keeps you sane, in insane times.

I came across a live album by Little Steven and The Disciples Of Soul, recorded live, in what they call The Cavern, these days, a few years ago. Worth a listen.

Take care.

He is still Crappy Doo to me though.

Yes, I'm fine thanks. I like your mantra, “So far so good." I use “Count your blessings” to keep me going.

I know you like your music and wouldn't be surprised if you knew and liked Woodie Guthrie's “This Land is Your Land” — he wrote and recorded it in 1944 in response to Irving Berlin's “God Bless America” highlighting both the beauty and social inequality in America at the time...

i doubt very much that social inequality has got any better anywhere in this world!

You're right, Dave, I do like that song, ever since I first heard it, as a little boy, and didn't know what it was about.

Do you know his song “Deportee”?

Could've been written today.

Keep counting your blessings Dave

I just played “Deportee” -- now what a very moving song, that is.

I've never heard it before, my loss. As you said, it could have been written today the way this crazy world is.

Yes, it is moving. It's based on a real incident. He heard a report on the radio, about a plane crash killing passengers. Described as “deportees”. This is his attempt to give them names and some dignity.

He wrote an album, “Dust Bowl Ballads”, based on John Ford's film of Grapes Of Wrath. This was heard by a young Bob Dylan, and inspired him. I did the book for O-Level English, and it inspired me too, but I can't sing for shit.

We could do with some people singing “protest songs” today. There were a few around in Thatcher's time, but not so many these days, at least ones I've heard.

Yes, the world is made up of many types of people, some beg for titles and honours while doing next to nothing and with little talent — others refuse these honours while doing plenty for the poor and oppressed people around them; people who really care about others and are never about “me, me me”.

Thatcher was one of those who kept working class people down and cared about none of them, even the ones who won an election for her with the Falklands War but cried for her talentless and grabbing son when the silly bastard got lost in the desert during a rally car race.

Chris, don't worry about not being able to sing a note, I'm the same and can't dance a step but we know how to appreciate the entertainers who can.

No doubt if you both like protest sings you'll also know Buffy Saint Marie? And of course some of Sinead?

No, I've never heard of Buffy Sainte Marie. I just read a bit about her now.

But I liked Sinead O'Connor a lot and how she lived a very troubled life which in many ways held her talent back, and she died far too young.

You must have heard "Soldier Blue" from the movie? It's what first got me interested in her songs.

Buffy Sainte-Marie has gotten some stick lately as she's been found not to be a Native (indigenous) Canadian but her songs still reflect their struggles and she's done good works for their plight.

Yes, Thatcher was something else, that's for sure. There were a few good songs though. “Ghost Town” was a hit, and a couple of decent Liverpool songs, spring to mind. “Does this Train Stop At Merseyside” by Ian Prowse, a great version by Christie Moore, brought the house down at The Phil. And “Going Down To Liverpool” by Katrina and the Waves” was surprisingly good. A few more besides.

Bert Jansch did “Just A Dream”, and Ewan McColl, Kirstie's dad, did “The Grocer”. I don't think he liked her.

Eric, yes Buffy was around the UK, in the early 60s, for a while, and appeared on Ready, Steady, Go, a time or two, playing her mouth bow. I got to know her through Donovan's hit with her song “Universal Soldier”. A good song.

He was still playing it about 50 years later, when I saw him at the Phil too. Still a good song.

I don't hear as much of that songwriting these days, if any. But I might be missing out. Maybe Taylor Swift?