Absolutely criminal penalty shoot-out from Everton

Unortunately for you, there is very little to also criticise among the subs as the options are so limited.

So now it is all down to the players.

Otherwise, pretty much the only line-up we have, with the only question around centre-forward.

This team can and should win and hopefully win well.

Living in hope for some real effort in every blue shirt.

Beto to get a brace.

I'll be staggered if we don't lose, but this team (and the manager) should get some slack from supporters given that we have 5 or 6 starters missing depending on who you think should be in the first 11.

Just look at our bench!

Lack of imagination but I do hope that these injuries that cannot be named are not something caught in the team bath.

84% of the ball for Sunderland.

Moyes should boot them both up the arse and explain they are playing top flight football -- not Sunday pub kick about.

How about the players take responsibility for inept displays instead of constantly blaming referees etc?

We're making Sunderland look like Barca. Two great saves from Pickford.

Then it went quiet again until once again poor defending allowed Sunderland to score, was it Garner with the nothing header? Then it all went to sleep again and it seemed more happened in injury (extra time?) than in most of the half.

Oh, and we are Everton, the home team, and we play in royal blue, so if there is a clash the away team changes so sack whoever is responsible!

We aren't out of it though, Sunderland aren't all that, we just need a bit of luck (which we aren't getting at the moment).

Goal for them. Awful.

Maybe Olayiwola could come on and play in his place. This kid has loads of skill, more importantly he knows how to use it and might give our fans something to get excited about.

Oh, and he's got a pulse as well.

Put me on that pitch at 51 and I'd do better than most of these. They look like they don't want to be out there.

People can blame the stadium but the players need to play with commitment and intensity as a basic requirement.

Even if we score, I wouldn't fancy us at penalties. Why do we always sign slow players?

We'd be out already if not for Pickford. Can Dibling just put head head down and take his man on?

A good manager even with star players missing would still be able to do these things. It's just dour dreadful football.

The question of Dibling isn't so much whether he can put his head down and take people on -- he definitely can -- rather why isn't he?

My guess would be he is being trained in the ways of definsive discipline, told not to be expressive, and the poor lad has had all confidence beaten out of him.

I'd imagine even a young Christiano Ronaldo would have struggled under Moyes.

Watching us in black at home doesn't feel the same. What a bunch of money-grubbing, heartless, soulless bastards.

Just saying like.

I don't think it was a penatly but we were due some luck.

He has changed the game... outstanding!!!

Disgraceful penalties.

Absolutely pathetic.

Worst pair I've ever laid my eyes on. Absolute dog shit

There was no way we were doing anything in the cup this year, let's face it. Not with those strikers.

Get The Fuck Out... Now!

It's become embarrassing.

Buy a fucking centre-forward, I couldn't care who, anyone would be better than those useless lumps.

That penalty shoot-out was pitiful and pathetic.

Looking forward to the rest of the season, and the inevitable relegation mess.

No games of any consequence until August. Not a good feeling.

Then on to penalties. I don't know who came up with the taking order but I'd never have let Garner take the first... fourth or fifth maybe after the keeper had seen others. And then Barry's effort which can only be described as childish to be followed by our other almost goalless striker.

It's been said many times; Everton that!

All 3 were woeful and the worst I've seen for a long time. Kids would be embarrassed if they did that and these guys are paid professionals.

Impressed with the few minutes I saw of Aznou —- the man that never was —- not a bleedin' minute before today. So out of the cup, more injuries, some which we might get told about... or maybe not.

Ditto his mate Beto, absolute joke recruitment.

Mission accomplished,

Let them eat cake

There's no commitment, no competitiveness, no direct forward passing. It's just hoofed hopeful balls to forwards who never win them. Rinse & repeat.

Barry is an embarrasment of a footballer and for the most part so too is Beto.

RS win shoot-outs. We lose them.

Addition by subtraction.

That's out of order mate.

Moyes went for the win at 1-1 by bringing three full-back substitutes on.

What, for a holiday!!!!!

Sorry for the fans trying to get behind that shit show.

Dwight McNeil has the down and out demeanour he had when his partner was very ill. Hopefully they aren’t going through the same again.

I severely doubt Barry will ever be good enough. Got to at least do the simple things well. Allowed defender to easily slip by him when he should have had him pinned on his own goal line.

Dibling looks like he has no instinct of what might be his best option at any time. Is it something he’s just lost for now and can potentially recover?

Aznou and Armstrong showed enough for them to be involved for rest of season.

What a shambles.

Don't think I would trust the current committee to spend money wisely. Barry, Dibling. Rohl tell you everything you need to know...

The only bright side was Aznou, who showed more fight in his short time on the pitch than our £42M signing Dibling. Moyes said there probably won't be any signings in the January window... after this showing, the owners may take their finger out because a striker and full-back are essential.

Nothing to say but invective.

For me, Patterson was outstanding and certainly didn't look like the liability most maintain. Maybe left-back is not such a problem. He just needs competition. Aznou was incredible when he came on, so there is hope for right-back.

As for strikers, I had thought Beto was better than Barry but will change a game for us. Overall, Sunderland were quicker and technically better footballers, I'm reluctant to admit.

Those who think OBrien is the future are delusional. He may be a back-to-the-wall defender but offers nothing creative. In possession, he either passes to Tarkowski or Pickford.

Enjoying my visit to HDS but bitterly disappointed with the result. Moyes is an easy scapegoat for those who will never accept him but he didn't miss the penalties.

What are your thoughts on the substitutions?

3 full back substitutes at 1-1.

Aside from that, as a coach, what value has he added to any of the players at the club? Dibling's career is in free fall, Barry did score goals in a competitive league, Aznou is apparently not good enough.

He has run his course for me. I don't trust his instincts on players. His teams are negative and predictable, his approach to game management is do nothing or make like-for-like changes when there is no other option.

The stadium has come way too take, it should have been Kings Dock years ago, but the Kenwright/Moyes combo really did damage this club and set us back years. And now we have one of them back.

My MS makes games harder to attend, and I'm certainly not going to consider until the football is better on the eye and he (Moyes) has left our club for good.

Patterson played decently and Aznou was excellent.

If we had sneaked through on penalties, having equalised with a penalty that never was, we may have drawn Macclesfield and that really would be the story.

Phew, what a relief.

We're that used to watching a big clumsy centre-back there that our expectations have dropped.

Forget injuries /suspensions, we are missing basic football ideas from him. I don't know now he he can lift the team from here.

Perhaps we have avoided an inevitable 4th round exit today?

Same old same old every year.

Here is the question -- is David Moyes the man to nurture and develop that talent?

We're buying absolute dross, and unfortunately Moyes and Kinnear have contributed their 10p worth with Barry, Dibling and Rohl. None are good enough to put an Everton shirt on.

Brentford, Sunderland, now join Brighton and Bournemouth as clubs who know what they're doing, excellent cheap players with good tactical, managers, who aren't afraid to get youth in early.

Moyes knew this period would be tough with Afcon, injuries etc but never ever tried to bring on Dibling, Aznou, Rohl, with 20 minutes here and there, with odd game thrown in to get them ready and available.

I won't be surprised if Moyes doesn't make it through the next two weeks.

I've been a supporter of him for many a year, but his lack of courage in youngsters will bring him down.

Why weren't the lads wearing royal blue at home??? It's infuriated me. Money grubbing cunts.

If those two centre-forwards never play for us again, I couldn't care less. Another shit show.

Thank god I haven't got to go for a couple of weeks. Just pathetic to watch.

Ordered mine already as I remain a passionate but, it appears, idiotic fan of the Gs.

Here is the answer: No.

Wearing that stupid kit for a home cup tie when you are facing a side that has 7,000 with its away following, talk about making the new stadium a cauldron... my fucking arse.

That and the way we haven't seen hide nor hair of these new owners in basically 12 months, we've had nothing from them at all in the way of input and what expectations they have. Unlike when the Saudis took over at Geordie-land and told everyone they wanted Champions League and a trophy within 2 years.

What have we got?

We sit here and try to make light of watching two of the worst strikers that have ever graced the football club and make out that it's something that we must do like we are a Sunday league club or something, we've sat here all season and not had a proper right-back at the club.

Zero aspirations of ever being anything other than a mid-table to bottom side, and we have the same discussion every year but never move forward.

We don't create pressure. I can't remember the last time we truly battered anyone and had them under constant pressure.

Everything is just fleeting moments, players playing out of position, no pace, no guile, and no fucking hope.

Football is built on tradition and it tells me these new owners view us purely as a business and nothing but. Fuck Off, Danny Boy! You're not welcome here after what I've seen today as a whole.

Say what you want about old Bill but he knew the club… We'll fight, fight, fight with all our might for the boys in the Royal Blue jersey.

Friedkin Out! I said it first.

David Moyes, he had 2 assists in that game. Would free up Garner, Armstrong and Dewsbury-Hall next season.

For a right-back, Óscar Mingueza from Celta Vigo, also out of contract next summer and has 4 Spanish Caps, age 26.

Centre-forwards, not much available on a free who might be interested in coming to Everton.

Please fuck off out of our club, you miserable soul destroying bastard. l've seen enough of your exhilarating football to last me a lifetime.

Three absolutely lamentable performances on the trot... two cup exits at the first hurdle.

Are you just unlucky, a loser -- or fucking both?

Now we are seeing the real Moyes. Dire football, playing on the back foot. When we do win, we just scrape through, poor possession stats, never dominating or controlling games, etc etc. I could go on.

Very very disappointed... but not surprised.

We had the weakest squad in the Premier League. People insist on buying youth, but then want instant results. So Moyes is criticised for not giving youth a chance, and in the same breath, hammered for buying young duds.

We've had two draws at home this week against Premier League opposition, whilst we've literally got a whole team injured. And people are blaming the manager.

Clearly Everton are expected to beat Premier League opposition with ease, even with eleven players out. Where did this level of expectation come from?

It seems that the improvement Moyes engineered was instantly banked, with no credit given. Demands are made for a 'progressive coach' -- whatever that is.

How about steady improvement, can we not settle for that for a couple of years, with an experienced hand on the tiller, without demanding West Ham style for god knows who?

The players don't set the price tag so we can't blame them. But it is truly a piss-poor run football club.

I can't see us competing for trophies ever again, regardless of whoever the manager is. The club is rotten.

TFG need to show they have the appetite for what's needed on the pitch. And start by replacing flat-line Davey and the muppets who make up the recruitment team.

This is the same fucking 4-5-1 we have played all season. How are they not able to anticipate what the play is and where the options should develop? They look as though Moyes has not spent adequate time with them or they do not have belief in his methods.

That play improved so dramatically as Aznou was brought on is frustrating. These players could have been drilled into functional form but are not familiar with each others' tendencies and preferences to make plays.

We have some serious problems in asset management going on. Moyes is culpable. We are about to experience a similar deterioration as when Dyche first found defence competence but never developed any courage in possession.

I hope I am wrong but players look like they are losing commitment to the project.

Between them and Beto, we've blown £115M on substandard players; we'd be very lucky to recoup £40M.

Recruitment and favourable negotiations are the worst in the Premier League... only Man Utd seem to be equally inept.

Okay, injuries, suspensions, and Afcon... but things will have to pick up soon based upon that effort. The owners must know where we are up to with that shit show.

I give up.

Classic Moyes is to follow a disappointing cup exit with an unexpectedly good result in the league, like the 4-4 at Old Trafford.

Time to focus on next season. We've got a couple of decisions to make on recent big-money signings. Perhaps a loan move for one and a transfer for the other -- it's never too early to cut losses.

We have a small squad and at least 8-9 players out from injury, suspension and Afcon.

Let's judge him, and the team, at the end of the season shall we? Let's learn from the West Ham fans, shall we? They'd have Moyes back in a heartbeat!

We also got a slice of luck for a change (it was never a penalty for me).

Xhaka head and shoulders above any of our lads. At 33, he has been a worthy signing for them, still has lots to offer.

When I think back: How the hell did Howard Kendall do so well at a club who so obviously put profit before results? Nothing has changed, has it?

Moyes is just here for the dough. So are the majority of the players and the staff -- a cash cow, under seige by leeches.
I am convinced that this clown-like relic is on its way to oblivion.

Frowned upon by football authorities, ridiculed by the media, and laughed at by its peers. I ask, in all seriousness: What other club than bloody Everton would countenance not one, but two absolutely useless, pathetic, lethargic, stupid twats like Barry and Beto to score in or win games of football for you? It must be a sick joke, right?

The strikers that have been jettisoned -- Simms, Cannon, Dobbin -- would score 10 times as many goals as these fuckwitts.

What is the point of Everton, David Moyes? Answer that, please. I just have an enormous amount of respect and admiration for the fans who are true loyalty but continually disrespected and used by the club.

We should of stayed at Goodison and built a new regime based on youth -- irrespective of relegation. I love Everton, but I hate EFC.

So what was the dour bastard's excuse against Wolves in the Carabao Cup??

Same as today, he'll shrug his shoulders and won't give a fuck.

We never move forward. Moyes should have been gone last summer and a new fresh coach brought in with his targeted players. This is just 2½ years of more stagnation under Moyes.

Why should we perpetually be building and waiting for 2- and 3-year projects? How about some of that sweet-tasting jam now?

But no, people say a few more transfer windows, couple of more years. I'm disappointed with TFG so far -- show the ambition or just become another useless custodian of the club.

Yes, Everton were depleted, Sunderland started with a number of second-string players, but they could all pass and move, and were comfortable with the ball. We were the complete opposite.

This can only be down to coaching.

I know we were missing players today, 'get a grip', don't forget Sunderland have 6 players at Afcon, and they outplayed us today.

What I find amazing, Patterson and Aznou, two players who haven't been given a chance by Moyes, and Armstrong who was sent on loan, were our best players today along with Garner.

You have to question Moyes's selection and tactics.

Clubs like Brentford have last summer lost the manager, three of their best players, yet continue to move on a forward trajectory.

Yet at Everton, there's always a ready-made excuse to buy more time and write off another year and put another season in the bin.

Our Fans... still waiting for Silverware... and still the best in the land!

This is not Moyes's fault. The team was doing well before injuries and Afcon; I think Moyes is one of the best in the Premier League.

Recent seasons have seen us survive relegation on the final day twice, so we have improved quickly. In a month's time, we will be fine.

For us, that was the end of the season.

If, if, if.

If me auntie had a dick, she'd be my uncle.

Did Macclesfield have better players than Crystal Palace today?

No.

We didn't have enough desire did we?

We move the ball too slow and we have wankers as strikers that I wouldn't put in a kids' team.

We're 4 points off 5th spot, and have 11 players due to come back from injury. So I expect there will be further significant improvement this year when compared with the last 10 years.

Were you hoping though for a run to the final as well? Well you can't always get what you want. But that doesn' mean we've got a dud manager, the opposite in fact. We've just come off the back of a 60-point season.

The lack of understanding and good grace to a chap who's done us proud this last year is quite amazing. We've drawn our last two games with 11 players out and it's 'Get the useles git out!'

Take a fucking bow lad...

It's on Moyes this season, he plays it safe with his favourites.

Sack his sad, boring cunt before it gets worse... which it will!!

Define "being fine", Jimmy?

Will we be back in the cups?
Mid- table obscurity?
Stuck with the dross up front or goal scoring strikers brought in?
A proper right-back signed?
Same predictable football from the manager?

Barry for Dibling is a positive move.
Anzou for a tiring and ineffective Rohl.
The other subs were like for like.

For me Patterson was nowhere the liability most people think. For me, he was solid all game.
Aznou was a revelation when he came on.

Must admit I don't know much about Welch or Campbell but if they are both full-backs then they were like-for-like.

We are way too slow and ponderous. For me, O'Brien offers very little going forward, keeps passing inside or backwards. At least the much maligned Keane can deliver a long pass and score the odd goal.

So much for the much-called-for pairing from the Forest game of Tarkowski and O'Brien. Utterly disappointing but consistently looking to putting it down to Moyes is a cop out.

The plan was to shoulder much of the responsibility. In possession, we are way too slow compared to Sunderland.

Finally, it wasn't Moyes who took the penalties.

Barry and Beto are terrible but the worst player on the pitch by a country mile was Dibling. Anzou looked good.

Our recruitment is shockingly bad -- if this is down to Moyes, sack him.

If not, I feel sorry for him as half the team are not Premier League standard.

We are 12th, marginally above the bottom feeders in a very weak Premier League. He has failed to beat Premier League opposition in three attempts that has seen us exit all cup competitions under his stewardship by the second hurdle.

The quality of football is poor, and he has not strengthened the squad. Garner is the only player who has, slightly, improved as a player -- and it looks very much like he is about to leave for nothing.

The young players that he has bought have been frozen out. Aznou's performance today makes a mockery of his lack of opportunity until now.

Andrew @99: West Ham fans would have him back in a heartbeat? Go on to their fansites and see if you can find much evidence to back that up.

Their reasons for wanting him out are well-documented and the same ones that have followed him around his entire career. Negative, boring football. No crystal ball required to foresee more of the same for as long as he remains.

I'm also a shirt collector too!

You could tell by Moyes's press conference his heart wasn't in it. And that pessimism passed on to the players.

"The FA Cup is one for the fans," he said.

Just what does that mean exactly???

We need to be realistic. We're missing our 3 most creative players. Rohl looks lost, as does Dibling and McNeil. For sure, Moyes is working on Dibling's defensive side. He'll turn him into another Jack Harrison if he's not careful.

Just give him the confidence he needs and let him play freely. If you can't do that, send him back to the Championship on loan where he can make mistakes.

I'd keep Aznou on the left and have Grealish play central until Dewsbury-Hall is back. McNeil and Rohl look shite and can't start again.

If Forest are interested, I'd sell McNeil while he's still worth something and bring in some reinforcements with pace and guile.

We are running out of players, and the ones we've got aren't good enough.

Rohl's obligation to buy looks a waste of money.

Mykolenko miscontrol out, demonstrates him to a tee. We've been hugely patient with the Ukraine national. Too patient.

McSlug is dreadful.

Beto and Barry are limited players.

Dibling looks a waste of money.

Just how many players can you carry, before fans will wake up and see you aren't going to win, if the attacking players can't create anything or control the damn thing.

Despite all of that, we took it to penalties, and lost in classic style.

I was fortunate to have seats immediately behind the dugout. I felt really sorry for Dibling. He looked absolutely distraught when brought off.

Stared into empty space for ages after. Obviously going through a very bad time.

I fucking do, Kevin -- and so does everyone of my blue mates. l absolutely cannot believe what you've said: "Who gives a bollox about Milk Cup?" Is this a piss-take statement?

What kind of fan says that????

This is why fucking fraudsters like Moyes make a living out of football... because they're allowed to.

We shame the FA Cup.

And we definitely shame the League Cup too!!

Something will need to give in the summer.

Like for like is my point.

We were at home in an FA Cup tie. Against Sunderland
Could he not have brought a forward on?

We -- as a football club that hasn't seen success since fucking Teletext was the in thing -- should absolutely definitely definitely certainly give a shit about every single competition and stop being fucking picky.

What?

Should we throw the cups to concentrate on winning the Premier League? Lord give me strength, just weird.

Why teams don't try their utmost to win one of the remaining two is beyond me. What is the point in existing as a football club if it's not to win trophies?

Please tell our manager.

Look at the team we finished with, Elijah Campbell, Reece Welsh, Adam Aznou... I've never even heard of half of them, and cos we lost on penalties to another Premier League side, everyone is losing their minds.

It's very odd.

This "be happy to get a point" shit from some fans sometimes does my head in.

Man Utd started the rot by not playing in the FA Cup one year in favour of the World Club thingy, as I recall.

I think there was effort. They're just not very good.

That side is nowhere near good enough to get anywhere near silverware. There's just not enough players with a goal threat.

This club is existing, which is an uptick on the 777 Partners debacle and points deduction not so long ago.

Yes, we have some shocking players currently... and just to disagree with you a bit, if they had all shown the same commitment as Anzou did when he came on, we might have had a different result.

PGMOL would never allow us to be winning anything.

I'm not sure how much longer I can watch Twit and Twat up front each week.

Fair point defending Moyes's selection today as we had no other options and he didn't at least gamble with a cup keeper.

Clearly these lot aren't good enough. However, the bigger issue to me is that, when we had a fully fit squad, he gambled vs Wolves and lost.

You know and he knew Afcon was coming in January so we'd be short on numbers aside from inevitable injuries. So if you have two shots at a cup and know you'll be handicapped in one, why the he'll do you gamble with the other one?

He should have absolutely focused on the League Cup, getting through hopefully to the latter rounds before Afcon began. Instead, he threw that away.

Then he has his ready-made excuses for going out of the FA Cup too. That to me is unacceptable.

The crosses are aimless. Most lack basic dribbling ability, most can't control the ball, most lack pace. They can only play it backwards, as they can't take the ball under pressure or beat a man, to make a positive pass. When you add that up, its no surprise we look impotent without Grealish, Ndiaye and Dewsbury-Hall.

I put in another post, weve footballers in Garner, Armstrong, Dewsbury-Hall, Ndiaye, Grealish. May be you can add in Aznou. But there's a long list of limited players thst seldom show technical ability.

How frequently do you see technical quality from O'Brien, Tarkowski, Keane, Mykolenko, Beto, Barry, McNeil, Alcaraz, Rohl, Dibling, Patterson, Coleman? Hardly any. Some perhaps you wouldn't expect, but when you have a list like that, you're doing nothing.

A great shout regarding Wilson on a free, if he could stay fit.

Definitely an upgrade on the worst strikers in the Premier League.

Only Everton could buy not one,but two "Bambi On Ice" blokes to play up front -- both fucking useless and equally lacking in any football nous.

They are right up Moyes's street come to think of it. He doesn't want nous -- he wants control so his shit system is never "out of shape". Boring football, played to the percentages -- not for me thanks.

And it's only gonna get worse now. Moyes's downfall has always been lacking integration of squad players -- he has his ways and his favourites, so okay.

Aznou looks good to me -- so play him.
Barry looks shit -- so don't play him.
Beto looks shit -- don't play him.
Armstrong is good -- play him.
Put Keane up front -- he is a liability in defence.

Get Vardy or Wilson in January. Bring in quick defenders -- your reliance on slow defenders kills any attacking football because you make the pitch too big.

I don't care if we win a few, lose a few... as long as we are going after games. Which we are not. Hence your crap record at home. Fortress? It's more like an orchard where the visitors just amble up and help themselves!

Injuries are an excuse; use your squad properly and rotate. Oh, and get staff who challenge you and the tactics.

Thanks to Pickford and a stupid penalty, we limped into extra time where we had to suffer the most embarrassing penalty shoot-out ever witnessed. At least my recurring nightmare of the Onana penalty will now be replaced by Barry's.

For the third time in a week the opposition completely out passed us. The hoofball we operate is an embarrassment. As for the shirts... heads should roll.

There's a lot wrong at the moment... so I suggest Friedkin gets his arse over to Liverpool and bangs some heads together.

Our 'style' (he, he!) reflects the dour personality of our revered coach.

He's just pulled his hamstring.

Even injured, he'd be an upgrade on these strange characters we've got up front at the minute...

The first half in particular was simply dross. Does the FA Cup 3rd Round not mean anything to anyone anymore? Where was the passion, the crunching tackles to ignite a (potentially) vociferous crowd?

It was the dampest of squibs. The ridiculously early kick-off time didn't help.

Watching it, I had the impression that we were feeling sorry for ourselves; as if our injuries and the recent vile VAR decisions had somehow given us licence to perform in such a lacklustre manner. It was bad.

It took the entrance of an inexperienced young defender to get this grumpy 59-year-old off his seat. That lad showed more desire in 5 minutes than many of the others over the previous 85.

The worst was yet to come; the two penalties taken by Beto and Barry were the icing on this lump of turd.

There are mitigating circumstances, we all know that, and nobody was expecting a dazzling display here... but this was a major disappointment which results in another season ending in early January.

This team needs some right narky fuckers in it.

There's always hope, I suppose.

People bigging up Garner for the England squad, well that's the level you need to be at.

As for ‘money grubbing', people do understand the club needs to make money so that there can be investment in players, don't they?

No one is forcing anyone to buy the replica kits and the club should do all it can to maximise optional spending. Only other option is to raise ticket prices; is that really what people would prefer?

James is a bit of a darling among many fans, and while he does seem to be our best midfielder, he doesn't have much to beat, does he? A bit like being voted the nicest Nazi.

I hope the scouting staff who spotted Beto and Barry have been shown the door.

I don't really like to slate Mr Moyes, but all his staff sure look a bit long in the tooth, and maybe rather old-fashioned. Our attacking style seems 1930s. Get it across and Dixie will score. Based on hope rather than design.

Rapidly moving through the stages of grief here, anger has already turned to apathy.

Just what is the point in watching us right now? We must be the most pointless team in the Pemier League -- there's zero entertainment value (unless you take some perverse enjoyment in watching graduates with honours from the Onana School of Penalty Bed Shitting)!

Realistically, we're looking at a fight for between 10th and 17th. It really makes it hard to give a fuck. At least the relegation battles had some drama attached to every match. But who wants that? Is that seriously the only competition we're good for, a relegation escape?

Okay, I guess the anger isn't completely gone. But the apathy is becoming very real. Season done early January... fuck me.

I'm not a Moyes fan at all but I don't especially blame him for today; options were limited to put it mildly. But how many times does he need to see Barry and Beto to realize they are both completely fucking useless???

Never mind the service, you could lay 10 goals on a plate for those wasters and they'd conspire to miss at least 9 of them. So stop playing them! Try something different, for fuck's sake!

We're essentially starting every match with 10 men at the moment, that's how little they offer. But Moyes's latest wrinkle is to switch to both of them on the pitch at the same time? Oh good... now we're down to 9 men (at best).

The squad is admittedly awful but Moyes's inflexibility is just as bad. For opposing managers, we have to be the easiest team to prepare for by a country mile.

Apologies for the ranting, just feeling really beat down by this shit. A cup run would have at least been something.

We had next to zero chance of winning the competition so I wont be losing any sleep tonight. One or two more rounds would have been nice, though, and would have put a few bob in the club coffers.

It's a bungle of laughs supporting Everton, it's more like a penance.

Neither can control the ball or pass it or have any football intelligence at all.

Barry in particular plays like he's just escaped from the funny farm.

We've still not seen him at one Everton game.

Not to mention his subs on 75 minutes every week. You can set your clock to him. If the 4-5-1 system is not working, then change it! No, not Davey.

That’s the thing with Garner he’s better than the others but does that mean he’s great? There were times when the same could be said of Scott Gemmill or Lee Carsley but did anyone champion them as potential international stars? No. Garner like many players is capable of the odd good game but is generally mediocre. McNeil had good games less frequently, Dibling and Rohl for us so far none at all. So it’s all relative. Even KDH is being hailed after a few good games before injury but he had several sub par games earlier in the season. The most frequent performer is Ndyiae, followed by Grealish but neither of them do it every week or thereabouts like a top player.

The attraction of buying a football club with a ready made brand new stadium and huge TV revenue sure us attractive. Time will tell but. show me your money Dan!!

He / his company bought the club not a season ticket. His (non-) attendance isn’t necessarily a measure of his long-term commitment to EFC. He may be happy leaving the places in the director’s box to those who are actually running the club on his behalf.

I’m not ‘defending’ anyone, just saying I don’t see it as reason to get the pitchforks out of storage.

Moyes comments are revealing to me. He accepts losing as long as its in the 'right way'. He's an average manager of average or below-average teams. That's his MO.

I cant think of any tactical masterstroke or game changing intervention in all the years hes managed us. Hes simply not capable of anything other than what he always does. That's why he ultimately accepts failure. Its inherent to his limited approach and ability.

Same old blues.

I should have known that you would come along

I can't believe I ever doubted you

My old friend the blues

I could excuse our manager if we at least had a go in games. But no, always safety first, slow going forward, keep it tight at the back and look to snatch a 1-0 win.

West Ham would take Moyes back in a heartbeat? Their fans would riot if he went back there.

Anyone who believes Moyes wasn't heavily involved in the summer recruitment is delusional. Moyes left West Han because he wanted full control there and refused to work with a director of football.

As I have said repeatedly, he will never change his outdated, boring tactics. So, whilst he did have a threadbare squad to select from, it doesn't excuse his constant use of the same tactics every single game.

Every manager in the premier league must love playing Everton because they know exactly how we will play because they know exactly what system they will be up against.

Mid table and out of both cups, yes I can definitely see the progress our magnificent manager is making. But don't worry, everything will change when we have all our missing players available. I don't think

Anyway i'll reserve my judgement on them against this summer and next summers transfer window. Three summers to build a side, we'll see how that shapes up.

My concern is what quality we have will leave well before Mr try to cling on to one goal leads does.

Same today, I'd have had Pickford step up before Beto and Barry such is the slipshod nature of the way both play.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the leadership at this football club

Who you playing instead today then?

Graham? Malik Olayiwola?

Keep going, drop Mcneil, Dibling. Who we playing instead King? Travers?

We can all see the problems. But credible solutions are in short supply.

Let's turn things on their head, shall we? Ian did you see anything in Bozo or Bongo today that made you think that Braiden Graham should not be given a chance? And, if you did, what exactly was it?

The manager brought 3 full backs on instead.

Mental as it sounds, if we can't sign a striker this month, when Keane is back I honestly think you'd get far more off him in terms of nuisance factor, shooting ability than the two "strikers" we have.

Either that or just play Ndiaye there and keep the ball on the deck, is it that hard really?

I can't tolerate more of seeing Barry get out muscled off the ball like a 5 year old and play terrible passes and Beto come on and look like he's just come out of working in KFC last week instead of 7 years ago lol.

It can't go on, we can't keep on making excuses for being shite year in year out.

Is it acceptable- no

Is it progress - absolutely.

Pickford (Captain)

Pattison

O'Brien

Branthwaithe

Aznou

Armstrong

Dewsbury - Hall

Grealish

Garner

N'diaye

Dibling

Last 5 exits before today: 4 4 3 QF QF

Recent league form: unacceptable

Falling or rising in league: falling

Is it acceptable- no

Is it progress - no

I don't think many managers have the balls to drop senior players for kids. Its fine when your Pep, as you can replace any dissenters. Certainly today, the team was picked on status.

I was disappointed Graham didnt get on. As knew mcneil on the right would be a waste of time.

Looking a head Ndiaye could play up there. The problem will remain that we have no one on the right. Dibling and Rohl have demonstrated theyre not good enough or ready.

Keane might have a decent dig on him. But I don't see him doing too much damage. He went up front a while back, and looked like a centre half going up front rather than a striker.

All I can reasonably hope for is a beto swap for a roma striker. And may be a loan for the roma lad with hear condition like Eriksen, Bove. He cant plsy in Italy.

But having done so, we really needed to manage him well,, ease him in, play to his strengths and let him grow and develop.

Instead I see a shy nervous 19 year old, who’s had his minutes severity limited because he was deemed unreliable in his defensive duties imo.

He’s now been drilled in the latter, but no longer has the confidence to use his skill and take a man on for fear of losing the ball, which he did a few times today.

Now I see a kid bereft of confidence wishing he was somewhere else. Bit of a mess really.

Ideally, if we had the squad depth, he’d go out on loan to a nurturing manager. It’s spiralling downwards at the moment.

The last 2 seasons we ended up with 48 points (if you ignore the deduction in 23/24). We are currently on 28 and the way it is going we will struggle to get another 20.

We might not be in a relegation scrap but the bottom 3 are almost sunk this season anyway.

C'mon Ian, it's not like leaving out Kane, Aguero, Latchford, Rush.

Our "strikers" prove themselves completely useless week in week out. Not leaving them out is borderline negligence at this point. I'm not looking for an argument, just really fucked off with those 2 and our manager and Everton in general right now. Sorry for being a miserable c**t but this hurts. Anyone who thinks the FA Cup means nothing is living on another planet from me.

Going on about losing these two players mentally?

I hope we lose them both physically this summer too lol.

Pair of them are not fit for purpose.

We have to stop being a charity, stop being nice and start being a hard-nosed business, that's how you succeed.

Same with dishing out all these contract extensions to Seamus Coleman really, it's just pure sentiment nothing else to it, the player (and I love Seamus he's been a great player for us) but he's finished at Premier League standard.

Everton Football Club will continue to copy and paste every season unless they become a hard-nosed business model

Ian, you're talking about Barry and Beto for goodness sake. They look lost already. How about challenging them to see how they respond? 'Bad result'? Six of our seven last games have been 'bad results'.

Tony-A. You know more about players mentalities than anyone else on here. You sound concerned, so I'm concerned.

I hope that Barry does not live alone in some hotel room.

Having bought my ticket for the game, I was unable to attend nor watch it on telly. Nor was I able to see Marine in their FA Trophy match at home to Gloucester. However, I did watch Macclesfield, 3 places below Marine in the league, knock out the FA Cup holders. They were magnificent.

All I have seen of our game are the pathetic efforts in the penalty shootout. It was what I expected when I saw the result after 120 minutes. Marine, on the other hand, justified my faith in them by winning their shootout 4-3, aided by two saves by on-loan from Everton Fraser Barnsley, described by manager Bobby Grant as “a huge presence on the field and in the dressing room”.

It looks as though the other loanee, Idon Samuels-Smith, will be returning to Finch Farm, with endorsements from no-nonsense Grant about his excellent play, enthusiasm and respectfulness.

What am I rambling about? Personality. We are so lacking in it. Players come to us and seem to clam up, others go elsewhere and thrive. There is something fundamentally wrong with the mentality of Everton Football Club. Occasionally it works, it did so very recently at Forest, but the occasions are very few and far between.

60 years on from beating Sunderland at home in the FA Cup 3rd Round. We are a long way away from that Everton.

The only alternative is Ndiaye going ias a false 9, and hes not here. The player, not considered good enough by a number of managers is Patterson, and there's plenty of calls on here to play him.

A new manager would continue to plsy beto and Barry. To change it requires someone to buy one of them, and I cant imsgine many are prepared to pay decent money to do so.

What a disgraceful comment by Moyes. He was beaming when we lost to City as we didn’t get thrashed so in his knife to a gunfight small mind that was a result. But there isn’t a “good” way to lose to a newly promoted team of journeymen who are without 8 of their own players. If you lose to them at home in any way shape or form that is inherently bad. Talk about lowering expectations FFS is any Prem team now a matter of knife to a gunfight?

I feel equally as dismayed and bereft as I did exactly this time last year.

Numb

Personality; you can’t buy character in John Lewis, is what Rafa Beinitez, said when he was managing Everton, although with the money taken out of the club, by so many people who have offered nothing more than mediocrity, then I’m sure you could have bought the actual shop, a few times over?

My view of David Moyes, is that he hasn’t got the capabilities to keep everyone happy and that’s why he has never really managed a big squad. People point to finances, but the more I look at his record, the more I think that David Moyes, actually prefers to manage a smaller squad, because he hasn’t got the personality, to manage a big squad.

'Someone has to win a penalty shootout and someone has to lose it but I do think there is a way to win it and a way to lose it. I didn't think the way we lost it today was the right way in the taking of it'.

Rambling rubbish. Meaningless junk. Embarrassing.

Pissed off with the attitude with the new owners " give them Moyes that'll do for now"

Not good enough so far from TFG, not good enough by a long way.

Absolutely fantastic manager and the way Aston Villa have been transformed from the team that struggled under Gerrard when we had our struggles at that same time, it's all about a positive football club with sky high ambition, making the right kind of acquisitions and overseen by a bold brave manager.

We need a manager who's first thought is "how do I win this game"

I actually felt sad looking at Moyes post-match. He looked awful, shocked, grey, defeated, confidence drained. He just did not want to be there. I just can't imagine him being inspiring. The gaffer of our personality graveyard.

An appointment by owners or sporting directors or whatever they call themselves who have idea about our club or the Premier League.

Agree 100% on Emery.

Great to watch the way he changes and adapts his team formation during games when he sees how opponents set up to play.

Very good tactician.

Well, we had half a season of relative optimism. But now the wheels have well and truly come off. I agree with Kunal (127), the recruitment is not joined up. Piss-poor really.

"... Tim Iroegbunam, who is withdrawn from this vital clash as a precaution: "He's just got a slight injury at the moment, so he wasn't available to play,"

Possible translation we may be able sell him and we don't want him cup-tied

The Debacle finished at 1 am my time, anyway back to the top to read on.

Did he really say this? Really? His position should be untenable if so. Unfuckingbelievable.

Our crack recruitment team knew that this was an AFCON year. They let us meander into the season without a senior striker. They left us right-back-less. Injuries are inevitable and the right preparation is squad depth. Instead, correct me if I'm wrong, our crack recruiters got rid of more fellas than they brought in.

If you or anyone else can stand it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmZeykLZb5U

"Overall result wasn't so bad "

Should be his epitaph after another loss. If he doesn't care why should we? Such an inspiring leader. I'm gutted we're out of the cup but hey-ho, it wasn't so bad. Fuck off.

"Sunderland are a good team we knew they would cause us problems so we worked on that"

He should have worked on how we cause Sunderland problems.

Throws the "we were short on options today"in.

We had 8 squad players missing.Sunderland had 8 squad players missing,they played us off the park in the first half.

I used to love the FA Cup. The third-round draw and matches was a highlight of the year. I used to love the day-long final show, even It's a Knockout. It was a magic day in 1995.

I am gutted for me and us. I can't help but cling to hope and a now distant past when our third-round kicks off. I'm gutted, but more than that empty, and even a smattering of well at least that's over and done with for one more year - the thirty-first year.

We were playing with 10 men (with Dibling) and maybe 9 with McNeil.

Cancel Barry's and Beto's contacts -- cut your losses.

If they'll have him, send Dibling back to Southampton -- he's no use here.

McNeil and Iroegbunam -- sell or bench.

Leave Grealish on the bench -- he's costing a fuckin fortune and he slows everything down too much, we're slow enough as it is.

Until Ndiaye and Alcaraz get back... pick two U21s forwards upfront -- they can't be any worse.

Left to Right: Anzou, Armstrong, Garner, Rohl, Patterson did okay... there's your midfield -- for what it's worth.

Back 3: O'Brien, Tarkowski, U21 player.

Pickford: did well -- again.

Keane; you're a brainless dickhead - Fuck Off.
Moyes - Fuck Off
The 3 Amigos - Fuck off.

Last but not least, TFG: the fact that they recently paid themselves the FSTE standard rate dividend on shares of £43M (3.5% per share on a total of 1.62 million shares which values the club at £1.2B) shows we're just a commodity, an investment.

You too can Fuck Off, or sell us to somebody who actually knows what the fuck they're doing when it comes to 'Soccer'.

I do not think we have made the progress expected in any way, shape, or form.

However, our beloved manager will indeed believe we have made progress...

As I posted earlier, there are some decent younger players in the squad -- Armstrong, Aznou, Branthwaite, O'Brien, Garner, even Rohl, Dibling and Iroegbunam. Is David Moyes the man to nurture and develop that talent? I don't think so.

Back to TFG. The departure of Ndiaye and Gueye was pre-determined, injuries to Branthwaite, Dewsbury-Hall and Coleman were known 4 weeks ago. The situation was worsened by absences of Grealish, Iroegbunam, Keane and Alcaraz.

The response to that crisis? Our CEO did an interview to boast of our world-class analytics and recruitment team before confirming that neither would be deployed in January.

He claimed it was because they have a long-term plan and don't want to disrupt it; the reality is that they have taken £40+ million out of the club so do not have funds to spend. If we got a offer for McNeil or Beto, I am sure we would accept it. But, honestly who would buy them?

The manager is playing a useful role in providing cover for complete inaction of TFG in supporting the club. That is the only reason why I am cutting him some slack.

Yeah, Angus Kinnear's interview was embarrassing. Given he came from Leeds — a massive club that barely crawled into the Premier League — I'm not shocked he hasn't exactly blown the roof off.

Just as Moyes Mk I was a heat shield for the owner, Moyes Mk II is the same.

I did watch the whole game live on TV here in India, and while we were clearly second best and didn't deserve to go through this tie against a better opponent, I feel that with the squad that we had available, I am not too dejected.

The initial 20 minutes or so, we were outplayed by Sunderland; then our midfield slowly started getting more of the ball, and with better composure (and better class), we should have gone 1-1 at the break. After that, who knows?

It was glaring to see that Moyes had to call on the likes of Aznou, Welch and Campbell to see out the game. At that point, I knew that, if the game were to go to penalties, the result would be a foregone conclusion.

I am quite positive that, with the return of the likes of Branthwaite, Gueye, Dewsbury-Hall, Grealish, Ndiaye, etc, we will be a very different team. Moyes also needs to give meaningful time to his second-string players; otherwise, he is just throwing them under the bus when they are called upon in times of emergencies.

It has been rumoured that pre-season TFG arranged something similar with a full-back that none of us ever saw in a blue jersey.

As for our current two, Monday morning at Finch Farm I'd get them taking a penalty in front of the rest of the squad and if they make a decent effort ask them in a loud voice, "Why the fuck didn't you do that on Saturday!" Can it do any harm?

Yes, I noticed that but you can't be at the centre of the defence and have such a blocking record, never mind be the point at which the rest of the defence should swing around.

But I think he was more indicating the poor header of Rohl or Garner, I think probably the first named, which played a major part in their goal.

And BTW, my #235 would be as a transfer free temporary measure for this season.

Plus no sending off for Moyes to hide behind.

Also the sanctioning of that kit to replace our traditional blue home kit was a fucking disgrace. It robbed us of our identity before a ball was even kicked. We're at home for fuck's sake... disgraceful from the club, fucking disgraceful.

Penalties:
1) pick a corner.
2) stick to it.
3) 1 ft in from the post... gives you a margin of error.
4) 3 or 4 ft high*...again, gives you a margin of error.
5) Hit it hard.

* Q) why 3 or 4 ft high?
A) Goalies can dive but they can't fly, by the time they've reached the post, always assuming they've not got too clever and decided to pick a corner themselves, come what may, gravity has them on the floor.

There's even a way for keepers to 'read' or 'slightly anticipate' -- without the need for a crib sheet on the water bottle -- the direction the ball is going by watching where the non-kicking foot is facing.

Penalty Coach? Gis a job, I can do that job.

He's an actual footballer, but I doubt he'd come to us. It's going well in Turkey, and Villa are linked.

So, unless you're going to pay huge wages, we aren't getting him.

Now the Cup is no longer considered a major tournament.
My sons both in their thirties disregard it as anything worth worrying about.

Although the Champions League has given us all the opportunity to watch the best of the best in action, it has in my opinion taken a lot away from the domestic game -- especially the FA Cup.

One thing most people agree is that Moyes was brought in to stabilise the club but we will need a more investment and a technicality better manage to bring us to a regular competitive level.

You said we should have gone for Emery when he was available. Great call but it’s also 20:20. Who would you go with now that would take the job with the current squad to move us forward to the next level.

I e said previously that many mentioned here in the past are struggling at their own or new club.

Surely there’s a couple of mugs who would take them. After all we did. To think one of them wears the famous number 9 jersey. Nightmare.

TFG. recently paid themselves the FSTE standard rate dividend on shares of £43M (3.5% per share on a total of 1.62 million shares which values the club at £1.2B)

Dividend is expected to be around £20 per share... so 3.5% would value each share at £571.43... which is indeed a strange number not seen in recent times, to my knowledge. The stated value of shares (as determined by TFG) is £175, so the £20 dividend would be more like 11.43%... which is pretty high!

TFG (dba Roundhouse Capital) hold a lot more than 1.62 million Everton shares... more like 2,190,966. (So yes, x £20 each = £43.82M total dividend payout to Roundhouse Capital).

Total shares in the club (including the downtrodden minority shareholders) are 2,198,935. If the shares are valued at £175, the total 'value' of the club is a lot less than £1.2B... more like £384M.

Now the true value of shares may well be more than £175 each -- heck, the stadium alone should be valued at more than £800M, so you may be right. The latest share auction should shed some light on this... although the tiny group of minority shareholders prepared to trade can hardly be considered representative of the current 'true value' of Everton Shares... if there is such a thing.

Glasner lost to Macclesfield. Bournemouth's manager couldn't get through a shoot-out with a North East club either. The latter hasn't won anything in England so why would he make us successful and the former looks a million miles away from repeating last season's FA Cup triumph.

We've got 8 players missing yesterday. Other's look off the pace and probably not even fit to play but we don't have an alternative.

Our strikers are terrible.

Once we get our players back, which we will. I expect us to finish the season well and secure a top half finish. It wont be success, it wont be greatness. But it will be progress.

1. We were beaten by a more technically skilful team with regard to speed of play, passing accuracy well orchestrated by Shaka

2 Those critics of Moyes assume we have equally technical players which I contend we don’t. Pickford has 2 options punt in hope Beto/Barry win their duel. No evidence that that is a good percentage option. Pass it to our defenders who are no footballers. They are slow Tarks better than Keane who is better than O Brien in finding a pass. Where Shaka is the conductor our most creative player is Garner but at best is a second violin although works hard as does KDH.

Grealish is a major culprit in slowing down or game and the less said about our strikers the better. So in summary the manager can only work with those available to him and after yesterday I was looking a chalk and cheese in terms of of technical ability. We need a lot more that Moyes out to fix our problems even with Gana Ndiaye KDH back

Very few is the answer especially under Dyche and Moyes. I wonder why, is it because we are one of the most negative teams in the league. How often do we see anyone shoot from outside the box?

How many times does Pickford hoof the ball up the field to a lone striker surrounded by defenders?

If I was a striker the last club I would join would be Everton.

Barry and Beto aren’t the problem. Both were scoring goals at their previous clubs.It’s the manager and the low possession defence first game he plays.

Changing manager too often? Sticking in a situation that clearly has a ceiling of mediocrity at best lacks ambition for me. I have seen Everton win things, I’d like to see it again but particularly for my sons and the many thousands of youngsters who support through thick and thin and deserve better.

So more of the same… ? Not for me.

Plus the brand of football is so negative. I watched a freshly promoted club, also with a second string out, play far more attractive football yesterday. All coached to pass and move, comfortable with a football.

I’d like to enjoy our football again. Be entertained.

Asked who should replace? It’s a fair challenge and I can’t give an answer. It’s true the mentioned ( not by me) Potter, Postecoglu, even Frank, have not made successful moves. But I prefer Iriola’s brand of football, like I preferred Sunderland’s yesterday and Brentford’s the week before.

There are progressive younger managers out there. It’s not my job to recruit the right one, we have a highly paid, much lauded ( by our CEO) team to do that.

Only thing planned this morning is to go through the remaining fixtures and guess where we can get another 10 points from to ensure we stay up

Barry and Beto waste of space. Rohl, well God knows who found him. Dibbling, better kids playing Sunday League.

Get Garner signed asap and don’t even think about shipping out Armstrong again

Who is up for debate.

Why is in the hope that a new manager would give us entertaining football to watch.

The most sensible and measured post to date.

I wonder who would replace Moyes and although Iriola has been mentioned as a progresssive manager, so were Martinez and Silva before they came to Everton and we all know how that worked out. The selection of next manager must be measured with a clear football strategy and appropriate investment to delivery the brand of football we all crave. However we we tried that in the past with Martinez we were great going forward but awful defensively. If we are looking for an up and coming manager how about BBM of Cardiff. Now that would get the punters going just like the Andrews appointment at Brentford but he had not experienc was going to doom them to relegation. Now lying g5th

Sunderland also under strength made the game a pretty dire watch.

Both of the strikers will get Moyes the sack, both aren't good enough.

We bought Beto at a time when the club had no money and DCL was injured so I understood he was a stop gap.

Barry on the other hand is a Moyes buy for £30m. He has an average season in Spain. No other club wanted him and villareal tripled their profit on him!

Dibling looks like the most disinterested football I have ever seen. I had high hopes for him after a good season with Southampton but he looks lost. Something isn't right there.

We need to bring players in this month. I can't see us winning another game until Dewsbury hall and Ndiaye are back.

It's around this time of year I start getting the Jonny Logan texts from mates.

I think the problem with bringing in new managers is that they haven't been part of a wider plan. I said in another post that we need to build the club around the new manager, not expect the new manager to work in the structure Dyche and now Moyes enjoy.

I think that means allowing them to have their own people top to bottom and players that work for them.

I hope Moyes goes at the end of the season. I don't want him to go "upstairs". I want a fresh start built around a new and cohesive plan.

He wont be changing now.

Another 5 months of this turgid,toothless football to watch.

We need a right back at the very least. Why does this club just plod on all the time.

We have tried half the managers on the planet with no effect.

I think he is a stabiliser, but no more.

I want more than settling for mediocrity and I’ve never enjoyed the safety first, don’t lose, Moyes brand of football.

I don’t hate the man but I do think he’s a vampire personality. He sucks the lifeblood and the joy out of everything.

I just want to see a new plan, a fresh vision, under new owners.

One that I can actually enjoy and one that just might be ambitious enough to get us closer to the trophy hunt again.

Otherwise what’s the point.

I don't hate Moyes personally.

I hate the brand of football his teams play.

A very dour,boring style of play,with the emphasis on not conceding

Supporters are simply pointing out the obvious issues on the pitch. In football, rightly or wrongly, the buck stops with the manager.

The main observation being these players are shite and that we shouldn't be playing Beto, Barry, Rohl, Dibling -- delete as appropriate. That's all great, but it's £130M of botched transfer fees plus wages, and no world beaters to come in to replace them anytime soon. So what's the plan? Banish these to the reserves and play with 8?

Frustrating, but it is a case of waiting for the better players to come back or get the cheque book out. We can play the kids, but most aren't good enough.

It's a modern phrase that the millennials have invented that pisses me off.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism and wanting to do better... and knowing the club as a business model and on the pitch should be doing better.

We are a bigger club than the likes of Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, but we are run atrociously compared to those three.

We live in an era where nobody likes criticism.

I certainly don't love him, so I am genuinely interested to understand a very different view to my own on the footballing strengths of Moyes and his teams, as demonstrated in his 20-year Premier League history.

Why does David Moyes, the man, make you feel this way? What is it that he has done, or is currently doing for Everton, that has decided you to be so completely devoted to him?

Nobody on these pages will be getting £100,000 plus per week to come up with solutions.

It's nonsense. A badly run club is a badly run club. There is no doubt that Moyes can stabilise a club like that -- but that is his floor and his ceiling. You won't get relegated and you won't win anything.

No, that isn't competing, it's nothinging. I always believe you should try to win. Not everyone can, but those that try have a chance (Palace last year). Simply existing isn't football, it isn't sport.

To truly move on we have to rip it all up and start afresh - not just replace 1 manager for another and expect the to succeed when everyone else has failed.

And frankly, with the obvious exception of Ancelotti and perhaps Silva -- we've hired badly based on very little research or PSR.

We've got a right winger, small and fast who would give a lot more than Dibling; he's on loan at Accrington Stanley and doing very well there, Isaac Heath. If he was playing here, he wouldn't be getting the moans Tyler is getting because of his energy and effort up and down the wing —- and he is playing against some very tough and tumble full backs.

Heath in, Thatcher out — sorry for bringing politics into the debate!

Have we had 30-years of poor managers?

1. Strip Tarkowski of the captaincy.
2. Recall Martin Sherif from his loan.
3. Make a few loan moves this month.

Some good comments on here about improving Everton so I'm having a go too...

After supporting The Toffees for more than 65 years, at least at the beginning for me, we were pretty successful, so I have a lot of sympathy for the younger generation of fans. 

What do the players do in training??? Practice penalties ad nauseam? Probably not. Passing accurately? (Not enough apparently.) Long punts upfield... okay, but rarely please.

Otherwise, short pass, pass, pass until it sits. You can't avoid a giant oil tanker (centre-back) with another one. Use a speedboat instead. I know... it sounds obvious.

If Beto and Barry scored goals at their previous clubs, then that's why we bought them. But why aren't they continuing to score? Tactics, anyone?  Or are they hopeless cases???

If so, get rid. It's not rocket science... but our rockets are exploding on the launch pad!

No club has shown strength and character in the face of the adversity of a Premier League relegation fight as often as Everton. We have never lost one but we are badly scarred for the experience. We are one of only 6 Premier League everpresents but all we have to show for that is the dubious record of having lost more Premier League matches than any other club.

I'm afraid that this has become the club's identity. It has infected managerial appointments we have made and it has shifted the mindset and expectations of supporters.

I would love to see us win things but I'm realitic that it isn't completely in our control and there is a seemingly unbridgeable revenue gap.

However, the brand of football Everton are currently playing is an assault on the eyes, and this is far from new territory. That is a choice and it is about the culture at the club, particularly the choice of manager and the tactics he employs.

Moyes fits Everton like a hand in a glove that he cut the cloth for. We will never play without fear, on the front foot, with this manager.

With better recruitment and given another season, we might make progress. I'm doubtful of that though, I think the game has left Moyes behind.

I am also fearful that, if we did get closer to his ceiling, stability will be celebrated as if it is success and he would be rewarded with more time, or more influence at the club.

I'd like us to abandon our fears and move in a new direction that prioritises exciting football.

You could play £500k per week, but it ain't making Beto a better footballer.

I wouldn't have thought that wages would be a problem as Roma and Everton have the same owners and, according to our CEO, he is leading the best negotiating team available.

But what hope is there if you can't liaise, never mind do a deal with yourselves???

Are you agreeing with my point? Or disagreeing?

I know we are suffering from injuries, Afcon and suspensions, so passing the ball out from defence is a no, no and booting the ball up top is definitely a no, no.

At least when playing hoof ball, get the Barry or Beto on the wing, to drag their defenders wide, as Calvert-Lewin did with some success.

ps: We need a centre-forward ASAP because all the hard work from the players behind goes to waste. They must be truly pissed-off.

I was surprised and disappointed that our owners, who have proved ruthless at Roma, didn't pay him off with thanks last May and appoint a progressive manager to commence the rebuild required to massively improve our playing squad.

Moyes has performed this season just as I expected: generally dire football, no interest in cup success, minimal use of youngsters... but with enough wins to comfortably stay out of the relegation dogfight.

After watching three dire performances in the bitter cold in s6 days, I would happily see Moyes ditched tomorrow.

In addition to what you've highlighted... throw-ins on the opposition's 18-yard box are constantly thrown backwards towards the half-way line and then swept back to Pickford to hump up the pitch. This is not natural and l can only assume is coached.

Anyone who has played at even the lowest of levels does not play like this. This is unique to Everton, along with the Everton pass... you know the one... a yard behind the man its aimed for.

Our passing breaks down attacks far more effectively than the opposition defence!

I see Arsenal have appointed a long throw-in specialist.

The mind boggles!!

Your post I think sums up our situation very accurately. The big positive I take from that is that, despite all we have been through over the past few years, we have survived where others like Aston Villa, West Ham, and Leicester ity have not. We are resilient and I think a lot of that is down to the fan base.

Moyes was brought in to stabilise the club and he has achieved that but, as you say it, there has been a price to pay for that. Some of the “football” we have been offered has made my eyes sore.

I wonder if the owners have a long-term vision for the club? Having achieved stability, what is the next step? I hope the owners have a plan...

I think the best way forward for Everton is to have a Director of Football who has the football pedigree to change the culture of the club.

The best football Everton have produced in the last 30 years was under the stewardship of Roberto Martinez. I see he is in the running for the Celtic job. Pity because I think he would be the perfect “change manager” for our club.

I would like to see him appointed as our DoF and for him to appoint our next “Head Coach”.

Sin Miedo.

I think he's much better at working with young players and he could turn our academy into one of the best in the country by completely changing the way our young players are coached.

His success was built on Moyes's rigid defensive mindset so, when he took over, he allowed the players to express themselves. Like leaving a dog off a leash.

Unfortunately, he had no idea how to set up a team defensively and, in his second season, we were so open we leaked goals like a sieve.

He managed the best set of footballers to come out of generation and should have won at least a Euro with the talent he had available. Even Lukaku raised his eyes when it was announced that he had become the Belgian manager.

We said it with Moyes: never go back. At the time, he was the one available and willing to take on the job but it definitely applies to Martinez. We have more time to make a measured decision.

Even though, when we do have a fully fit squad to choose from, your darling Moyes will still play the same, safety-first, boring tactics he has always played.

One of the most sensible posts I have read in a long time. Well said and I fully agree with all the points you make.

Martin Sherif has already been recalled from his loan at League One Rotherham. Hasn't played since November due to an injury.

Tony and Laurie, we already hired a technical director to oversee player development and restructure our academy system. Nick Cox arrived from Man Utd 3 months ago, where he oversaw 35 Academy players make first-team debuts. I'd give him some time.

Martinez hasn't managed at any club since we sacked him 10 years ago, so as a choice to oversee an academy or a "club culture", he wouldn't make much sense to me.

I wouldn't want Martinez back as "the manager" for the same reasons as you but I would like him (or someone like him -- Bielsa?) as the Director of Football for his mindset because I think change has to come from the top down. My suggestion is he appoints the Team Manager / Head Coach.

Mike #290,

Agreed he hasn't managed a club since he got sacked by us but I imagine he would have learned a thing or two since then based on the players he managed at international level, the club managers they were coached by, and the games he has managed. Celtic (a mighty club) apparently think so.

I have to admit I was not aware of Nick Cox's pedigree, which is impressive, so it appears TFG are heading in the right direction as far as the academy is concerned and that is encouraging. The question for me then becomes what type of manager mindset will take advantage of the players Cox produces. Based on past performance, Moyes wouldn't be my pick.

My view is that this sort partnership: DoF + Team Manager or Head Coach + Academy Director is the way forward provided they are all singing from the same song sheet.

1) Buy a right-back in this transfer window.
2) Hire a specialist set-piece coach in this transfer window.
3) Drop Tarkowski and select O'Brien and Keane until Branthwaite is fit.
4) Sort Garner's contract extension and make him team captain.
5) Stop playing centre-backs at fullback and give Patterson and Aznou more game time.
6) Buy a striker in the £40-50M range in the summer and complete a deal for Grealish.
7) Buy a pacy left-back and a central midfielder in the summer.
8) Sell McNeil, Beto, Mykolenko and retire Coleman.
9) Integrate Issac Heath and Harrison Armstrong into the first team squad.
10) Focus resources on the Academy development.
11) TFG to communicate their plan for the club to supporters, including the commitment not to take any more money out of the club for the next 5 years.
12) Target Andoni Iraola in the summer as part of a succession plan.
13) Move David Moyes to a football leadership role providing strategic direction, developing our scouting structure, and mentoring coaches below the first team.

All of the above might be bollocks, but it is more than I have heard from Angus Kinnear since he took over as CEO.

I would see if Davide Ancelotti was still interested in taking the top job at a club as he expressed interest in the Rangers job. I have heard it said that he is the strategist who sees how to change a game which is what we need.

35 players is a lot, even for a club like Manchester United, who have always had a conveyor belt that has seemingly produced many great players over the years.

They had a young scouser playing for them yesterday, he got sent off, although I was reading he was the brightest spark while he was on the pitch.

United have always produced great players, so this Nick Cox sounds very interesting, Mike. I'll be interested to read anything you can tell us about him but this doesn't stop me thinking that Roberto Martinez would be perfect for what I've got in mind, especially because he's gathered so much experience over the years.

It's probably below him, although this depends on what he has got planned for himself in the coming years.

But that ref who sent him off is a cunt!

I never really rated Martinez or Marco Silva. When they were hired, I wondered how they managed to get the job after leading their teams to relegation from the Premier League.

I do rate Iraola, but it is of course a risk. Davide Ancelotti took most of the training when he was at Everton, but the job here would be a massive first step for someone new to management. This is a massive club with huge pressure no matter how crap we have been for 4 years.

Overall, I blame the CEO and TFG far more than the manager for the current state of affairs. Most new players were signed late in the summer window and the owners left him with big structural gaps in his squad at the start of the season.

They have then sat on their hands while the squad strength has reached a state of crisis over the last 4 weeks. I doubt Moyes has ever had such restrictions on selection as he faced against Sunderland.

Not that this is letting David Moyes off the hook, as his usual preferences have worked against him. But I am sure he has been asking for reinforcements for the last few weeks -- time to start demanding as they are letting him down badly.

I think Moyes is too dour but it's only 13 months or so ago that people were saying we needed to move fast and get Potter in. It was similar a few years ago with Lopetegui.

I've seen people hoping Ancelotti will make a return but it's worth remembering we dropped from 2nd in the Premier League on Boxing Day to finishing in the bottom half and our home form was dreadful. Once Rodriguez got injured, we resorted to KITAP1 football. We also got hammered at Chelsea and at Man City.

Martinez's football in 2013 was sublime at times but, again, it all fell apart because he was too stubborn to work on the defensive side. Another false dawn.

I have Leeds fans at work who idolise Bielsa. It's worth remembering he looked at our play and decided he'd like to work with the youth team and let someone else manage the first team because we couldn't play his style of football.

At least Dyche had the balls to take on the job and actually kept us up, against the odds.

I like the Bournemouth guy but I've lost count of managers who do well at smaller clubs where they are overachieving (Thomas Frank, for example) but they cannot hack it at a massive club like Everton.

This city lives and breathes football. Every passing year, the history gets more distant and the desperation to see a winning team increases. It would take some manager to have the ability to pick up the pieces from other managers and build something.

Ultimately, a football club is as good as its players and our players, on the whole, aren't good enough. I'm not sure the manager makes all that much difference. We've signed slow, pedestrian footballers or punts.

We have to look at our scouting and recruitment because clubs like Crystal Palace, Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth continually buy players that improve their team, can play to their style of play, and can be sold on for a profit.

Bielsa might be too old now, he might not have the same energy, but if there's one thing an Everton crowd has always fed off, it is when they see a committed team playing with real desire and energy.

We get one central defender passing it to the keeper, trying to play out with our full-backs? If football was an exam, then I don't think many people would pass, trying to use those tactics with our defenders.

But no, he's just the largest symptom of the underlying problem... probably caused by Kenwright.

However, when you have new owners come in and their answer is to go backwards, then right now I have no faith that we are going anywhere other than being the team that's always around but wins fuck all.

Moyes was a sound appointment last January to keep us up, but it is a total embarrassment that our near billion-pound stadium has Moyes's football on display for its first season.

Even more so when both full-backs are uncomfortable in possession.

Regarding Bielsa -- when you think about it, a man with his track record and background offering to work with the academy instead of taking the manager's job is quite remarkable.

No stereotype, Bielsa -- I am impressed by people like him. They are game changers.

If so, before you and most of the people on this site continue with your campaign to get the manager out, I would ask you to look at the example of West Ham. They too were wanting a progressive manager who would 'get the fans on their feet'.

And fair play, they've appointed three different managers since Moyes left 18 months ago, but I'm not sure it's going according to plan. Now you could say 'well that's West Ham'....

But I just had a look at Grand Old Team, and their hoped for successor to Moyes, and they have Glasner and the chap from Ipswich. Both of whom, needless to say, are below us in league placings.

In my view, Moyes has done a fantastic job here in the time he's been here; compared to any of our previous managers he's the best since David Moyes. But there is a determined clique who want him out. Just like they had at West Ham.

West Ham... who will now be pondering their fate in the Championship for the foreseeable.

I agree with pretty much all of it, but that being in place for Burnley, Wolves, Sunderland and Villa, is sadly not the case.

By your own admission, most is summer stuff or landing at the door of the CEO or TFG. For the here and now, with suspensions, injuries, and Afcon, the personnel pick themselves.

At least you put something down. It is far more than the moaners who expect things to get better by 'motivating the players more', whatever that means.

Perhaps bring a pet to training day, leaving a chocolate on their pillow, or bringing fresh fruit in will improve the control of Beto, the pace of McNeil, and the crossing of Mykolenko.

The fact that Lampard, Dyche & Moyes are finding the same issues with the players might give us a clue where the problem is.

Nigel Cox was in charge of Man Utd's Academy for many years so I imagine, hopefully, that he will shake that part of the club up which has needed doing for many years.

He will be like Ray Minshull was at Everton in the 1980s, signing and looking after the young lads who signed at a young age.

One thing he advocated to all the young lads and coaches was “Be brave and believe in yourself -- you can't really succeed if you don't."

I don't think he's been down Moyes's ear with that quote —- yet, but I'd advise Tyler Dibling to work on it.

Delap went to Chelsea, the winger stayed at Lyon, when you are down at the bottom, the good players will not come, it's as simple as that.

So if we want to start shopping upmarket, we need an incremental shift up the table over a couple of years. So that the players have confidence you aren't going to be down at the bottom again.

We did well to get Grealish and Dewsbury-Hall this season (and the credit for that goes to Moyes) but we have to remember that the football world regards us currently as barely above relegation fodder.

I think we need to get our players back (all eleven of them) and then go again in the second half of the season for a top-half finish. If we get that, it will have been a very good season, despite some of the expectations on here.

I've never hidden the fact I don't like Moyes's style and the culture he brings to our club. The fact that so many people seem happy to accept not winning anything is a weird notion to me, but it's all opinions.

Whatever we do isn't a case of simply replacing Moyes with somebody else. I hope TFG have been putting in the foundations to support the sort of football and football manager I think we all want. I thought it might come quicker but perhaps they are learning from what they did at Roma.

Imo though, you won't get there with Moyes.

General impression of the stadium is that it looks magnificent. However, for whatever reason, the lack of atmosphere was really noticeable.

The Sunderland fans apart, the stadium was really quiet and it all felt a bit sterile. It all felt flat and there seemed to be an acceptance, even expectation, of poor performance and outcome.

There are mitigating circumstances for the poor performance and I can fully understand the lack of excitement in the fans watching the quality and style of football on show, but truly I was a bit baffled at the whole experience.

It was completely lacking any passion -- and that covered the players on the pitch and the atmosphere in the stands.

What's not to like about Grealish, Dewsbury-Hall, Ndiaye and Garner running midfield? You put in good full-backs and a proper striker and we'll be Top 6, playing good football.

We have owners who can afford to buy any player if they want, and can't do it. I'm talking from a selfish point of view as there are obviously other clubs who haven't got such rich owners, and unlimited spending does come with drawbacks, but how else are we going to get on par with the best?

Continually changing managers won't do it, we need a squad of players that are on par with the best. To do that, we need to buy the very best. Sure... we can find one or two gems -- but a whole squad? Forget it.

Problem is the usual suspects and poorer clubs are never going to vote for removing limited spending, are they, so here we are stuck in limbo.

But he can't, he won't, and we are back where we were in his first tenure.

I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing though -- just not totally in agreement as to who should lead us.

And Raymond, if clubs like Brighton, Palace, Bournemouth, Sunderland, Brentford -- even Villa (who only 9 years ago were playing in the Championship) can keep competing -- why can't we?

That being said, the manager has not helped himself -- his over-reliance on a small squad, preference for playing senior players, picking players out of position, not giving squad players game time, refusing to make timely substitutions.

He has had these glitches in his decision-making as long as I can remember.

There is a demand to play the younger players. But with it needs to be an understanding that they will make mistakes on our dime. It is why the moneyed clubs invariably stuff them out on loan, to make the mistakes elsewhere.

There was quite a fanfare on here over Aznou. Not wanting to piss on the parade, but in a league game VAR rule the penalty out as it was not a penalty.

Armstrong and Iroegbunam were out of position with Larsen for the Wolves equaliser, whilst Dibling was ball watching from Rohl's poor headed clearance. Those were off the top of my head outcomes that have led to goals.

Moyes is being paid for results. But tell me, are fans on these pages going to cut him slack if the kids make mistakes that cost points? I am not sure they are.

It is result first, then performance, then the personnel. 300 odd posts on the back of a defeat vs 90 on Forest tells its own story.

Why is the centre-forward often isolated? Why is whoever plays on our right wing even more isolated?

My own guess is that Moyes doesn't want his full-backs getting to far forward, because our two central defenders have got no pace.

But we won at Forest playing in a different way, with different tactics (the team played a lot closer together) and I'm not sure there will be many people who don't think that we weren't helped by having a much better balance right the way across the pitch that night?

Our forwards have simply not been good enough, but it's play with one, swap him for the other, and this is replicated all over the pitch because we are rarely fluent, with us being very rigid.

I think Moyes could have got a lot more out of this team from an attacking point of view if he had shown a little bit more innovation.

That's not a criticism. I've read up on him and he does seem to have his own opinions that make me think he's not just another stand-in-line yes-man that the game is littered with, and which can often be the reason for promotion. (Why am I so fucking cynical??)

I am intrigued because, if I had anything to do with Everton, the first thing I would try to do at youth level is to try and replicate what Manchester United have always done: they have always been very good at bringing kids through.

One thing we can all agree on at this point is that the first goal in any of these games is absolutely crucial. As such, I can't blame Moyes for being cautious at full-back, none of our full-backs add anything to the attack, so what is the point in encouraging them to go forward? It only makes us more vulnerable to a sucker punch.

We were doing just fine until Dewsbury-Hall got injured and the Afcon arrived. And once they're back, we will be fine.

I agree, the centre-forwards are a real issue. I would say it's the one big problem we have. We really needed Barry to offer more than he currently is. And Beto now just needs to be sold.

I suspect both will go in the summer. Barry is like Benjamin Button, he's getting younger every time I see him, he looked about 15 at the weekend, and is disappearing from view.

He has alienated Dibling, likewise Patterson, and to a lesser degree Alcaraz and McNeil... but maybe I'm wrong and none of them are good enough?

Could he have played with four stay-at-home defenders and a holding midfielder, and let the five ahead play with a lot more movement and flexibility?

I know you really like Moyes, Kevin, and although I don't blame him for our current slump, I just don't think he will ever be anywhere near good enough for where I'd love to see Everton go, simply because he's very, very easy to read.

If the fans in the seats can read him, then it's obvious that so will a lot of his opponents, which means he will never be better than average, in my opinion, unless he suddenly learns how to implement an element of disguise.

Stuck with Moyes - stuck with Moyes - on the Mersey, very bored, very cold, and feeling old.

He'll certainly do for me in the next couple of years to get the squad sorted and put us around the European placings.

I don't give him any credit for getting a point against Wolves though, although I suppose Pickford deserves a lot of credit for a save that ended up getting us a point after we had gone down to nine men.

I still think we have got a chance of getting into Europe, Kevin, and because the leopard hasn't really changed his spots, then perhaps he will win another Europa Conference League trophy, and give the Evertonians a cup!!!

This is what I don't get, Tony, we've spent over a decade chasing this dream of progressive football, and have mostly been fighting relegation, and spent half a billion.

Moyes turns up with his pragmatism, gets us 10 places up the table, and gives us a midfield of Dewsbury-Hall, Grealish, and a revitalised Garner to add to Ndiaye, and the vibe is 'A leopard doesn't change his spots'.

And this is after he's been here barely a year. And people are wanting to get rid, and put in Silva or Glasner, or well anyone, as long as it's not Moyes. I find the whole thing bewildering.

At the very least, surely knowing him as we do, it makes sense to hold him for a couple of years to at least consolidate the club, get us among the European spots again.

Did I see someone saying they'd have Lampard back in a flash? I don't get it.

A very weakened squad and team still had the chance to progress and await reinforcements for the next round... but those two blew it. Neither should play for us again, in my opinion.

Neil Cremin @ 248 - specky bloke in a massive blue beanie/bobble. Was that you??

I listened to an interview with Henrik Larsson. The interviewer asked him had he watched any decent games recently... "I don't watch football anymore it's boring, there are no dribblers, nobody tries to beat a man."

Dyche's pragmatism was doing exactly the same thing until he lost his head, imo, and that eleven players out isn't doing much for your argument, mate.

The defence was what it has been for most of the season, and when you add Barry, Garner, Grealish and Iroegbunam, plus Pickford, then it actually wasn't that many players short of the team that started on the opening day of the season, against Brighton.

No Gueye, no Ndiaye and no Dewsbury-Hall... and no pro-active subs when a few of our players began to tire.

Marco Silva is the obvious example.

I wore the beanie like a baker hat.

Before I start, I declare my position in that, although I was lukewarm on Moyes's appointment, Dyche had lost the dressing room and we urgently needed an injection of something to try and get something out of the squad.

I was surprised he got a 30-month contract as I would have been in favour of an 18-month contract and let's see how he would do. Delighted that he did so well, took us out of a relegation battle quickly, and this season, despite some uninspiring performances, has us in a position where we are not fearing relegation.

That being said, my criticism of him and most frustrating thing I have about him is his substitutions which always come late in the game. Those who argue that he should be giving the young players a chance, how would he do it? Drop Grealish or Ndiaye for Dibling?

Many asked for him to give the new players a chance against Wolves; now that we lost then and on Saturday, he is being vilified for not taking the cups seriously.

He will never be accepted by a core who, no matter what he does, will find ways of criticising him, even going on a rant the day before the game about the team he was not going to select.

As for analysis of the match, from my perspective, Sunderland were technically better, played at a much faster pace with accurate passing. We do not have players that can move the ball quickly....

Not O'Brien, always sideways or backwards; not Tarkowski although he will now and again launch a missile to our strikers but, by the time that ball is kicked, the opposition defence is facing the ball, making defending much easier.

Our full-backs are what we have. I thought Patterson did okay on Saturday. Mykolenko is a solid defender but, if he does go forward and we lose the ball, he is not great at recovering. So why would he expose himself?

Our midfielders should be coming back looking to take the ball from our defenders and working up the pitch but we have no movement.

When Jack Grealish is playing, we invariably pass the ball to him, he puts a foot on the ball, allowing the opposition defence to set up and no chance to give our limited strikers a chance.

Everything is pedestrian, whereas Sunderland and Brentford move the ball quickly. We moved the ball quickly against Forest for our second goal. Also, we have no midfield general, no Rice, No Xhaka, who orchestrates the game.

Jimmy Garner is the nearest we have. He has a great engine, he huffs and puffs but doesn't blow the house down.

We have a saying, that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Yes, it is the manager's job to get the best out of the available resources. In that reagard, he has done well.

Many here want him to play expansive football, with Patterson and Mykolenko haring up the wings, but we saw how that worked in Martinez's second season.

Moyes is safety first and for the moment, although frustrating, that will do until the start the next phase, which I now believe would start in the Summer.

However, we should be very careful who we do recruit. Hiring a new manager with the same team may not deliver the results everyone craves for.

I also agree that the atmosphere was dead bar the first few minutes and after the penalty equaliser. It was my first time I ever saw Everton lose in all my visits to home or away games.

Not that I get to many but I try to get to one or two a year, One home and one away in London. Hopefully my next trip will be better and we won't have such a divided fanbase. COYB

Looking forward to our pint when I come over.

You sound like Moyes.

'The overall result wasn't so bad it was just the end part'.

I've never read anything so limp and pathetic.

Cox was at Man Utd for 9 years, first as academy operations manager, then as head of academy and finally Academy Director. The Man Utd website provided the figure of 35 players into the first team under his oversight. They won an FA Youth Cup.

According to the website Training Ground Guru, while he was director, 25% of United's available game minutes went to homegrown players, and he continued the club's streak of 85 years with at least one homegrown player in the lineup for every game.

He also directly generated about £100M of sales of academy players as director.

Everton headhunted him -- apparently TFG settled on him early.

If you'd like to hear from him directly, he guested for an "exit interview" with the Talk of the Devils channel on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7eHomt3Ig

Seems a modest, low-key chap, no flash or flair but good sense.

Besides, I think he's already got his last career picked out. He's quite a charming and humorous TV pundit when I've seen him.

Man Utd have always brought young players through but just as important to me is the undoubted ability that a lot of the players who come through their system possess.

First touch, the ball already out their feet and ready to play. It can't be underestimated just how much young footballers develop if they are taught right.

But you will have to do a detour to Ireland. When I say home game it's to Liverpool and a London game as I have a daughter there, so I try to time my visits to when Everton are in town.

The answer to your question about Cox's coaching badges can be found in this article he wrote three years ago for a website called Coaches' Voice. He goes over his philosophy in detail, and as a one-time top-class youth player yourself, I'd be very, very interested in your opinion of it.

Coaches Voice | Academy Life — Nick Cox

I have thought that Roberto Martinez was much more suited to developing kids, rather than managing seasoned professionals, but this is just my own opinion that I started making about the man during his time at Everton.

Never been, but I've been singing Irish music since I was a child and would love to find a pub with a fiddle band playing the old stuff.

I was drawn to something that I liked which had been written about Cox when I started trying to find some information about him earlier, so I will have a read of this tomorrow and get back to you.

It sounds like he’s worked with a lot of good people, I remember coming home one night to find a man who he gives a great accolade to in the article, Dick Bate, actually sitting in our living room, with Dave Sexton.

It makes me think I made a couple of wrong choices but, the biggest thing I did wrong was probably being a little bit too pigheaded.

I needed help, none was given, so it was refreshing to hear Cox, talk about David Brooks, who probably would have found himself out of the game, if it wasn’t for his coaches thinking outside the box, because they knew the kid had ability.

Work hard, stay humble, practice, listen, learn and go to bed early, because talent alone is not enough and I’m sure that there are many very successful footballers, who will be able to tell you that they have outlived players with treble their ability, so hopefully Cox succeeds.

He talks about four years not being much time to spend at a club, doing his job, so hopefully he stays at Everton for a very long time and helps us to develop a lot more young talent than we have done in the last few years🤞

It also resulted in me digging deeper into his appointment and led me to this article and video of an interview with our CEO Kinnear.

Link/

So my suggestion of a DOF is not going to happen because the club has decided on a different approach where the manager is supported by a “Football Leadership Team”.

The article and the video are well worth following up and have made me have a complete rethink about things. One thing I am certain of now is that the owners and CEO have a long term vision and plan for the club. Two things I questioned in my post @ 284 and if I am being honest I think it is a better approach than the one I suggested.

My understanding - the CEO via his “Football Leadership Team” would provide the foundation for the short and long term success of the Manager and club.

I remain unconvinced by Moyes but no one can argue with Kevin Molloy’s assertion that he has improved our situation so I am going to try and cut him some slack until after we get Ndiaye, Gueye, and Dewsbury-Hall back and settled in the team.

I will however be watching very closely to what Kinnear and his Football Leadership Team come up with in the summer window having had a full season under their belt.

Tony #339, glad you found those links and delighted that one of the people Cox talks about was actually a past contact of yours. Your perspective as a youth star in a professional system is highly valued. We won't hear much about Cox -- he's not involved in transfers, and building an Academy system is a long behind-the-scenes process -- but I share your hope that we've brought aboard someone who can truly change the Everton system and nurture young talent the way the club did long ago.

Bate, was behind the group who started the National School of Excellence in the mid eighties, taking young kids away from home to board in Lilleshall, and learn the beautiful game.

This was seen as very innovative but looking in front the outside, because I possibly refused the chance to go, then although the first bit was innovative, I’m not sure about the rest because the coaching seemed very methodical, (when I close my eyes and think about the players they produced) and my own view is that if you really want to improve young footballers, you have got to coach them right?

Was that Dick Bate with Dave Sexton? Maybe he was there to observe because he never opened his mouth all the time he was there, except to eat the boiled ham cobs your mam made for them.

They bleedin' whoofed them down, your mam made them some more after they said how much they enjoyed them. You had just come back from training with Liverpool Boys and went to see Everton play Aston Villa in the first leg of the League Cup.

Me and Mick, my mate with the sticky fingers, went to Goodison to meet Bobby Robson and finished up with tickets for the Directors Box — so your football ability wasn't completely wasted.

Thanks, Laurie (341), for that link, not sure about committees planning our future transfer business — isn't it said that if a committee came up with planning the perfect animal they'd come up with a fuckin' camel!

The edit button is still not there Michael!

If my technical hands were working, I'd reproduce it but, like Moyes, I'm absolutely useless in the technical box!

My only advice is that you definitely need to find some better hosts!!

I was in The Dispensary recently and they had a fiddle band fronted by gorgeous Irish twins. They had the place rocking!

I read the article and liked the fact he talked about the value other people had in the young players not just his own, he was happy if some of the players gave him credit for their success but knew it wasn't just him.

I think Everton's young players will learn from him just by listening to him, he doesn't seem to be ‘me, me, me' sort of person but more interested in the lads learning and making as much success as they possibly can.

Meeting nice genuine people in any walk of life will always benefit the people who meet them — I've been very lucky in that respect!

I started reading Carragher's book because the lad who was driving my cab, (a mad Evertonian, who was mentioned in the book for running on the pitch by name, after Sharp scored at Anfield) had left it in the taxi, and I was very surprised when he said he had attended this national school of excellence.

Another was John Ebrell, who I can remember playing against once, and they were both very methodical footballers imo. They both did very well, especially Carragher, but neither of them was what you would call very technical, and this is what this school of excellence claimed it was going to do.

The claim was that they were supposedly going to be moving away from physical strength, and were going to start concentrating on teaching the more skilful players the technical side of the game, and yet just before I stopped reading the book (because I couldn't take much more of Carragher) he mentioned that in one training session at Lilleshall, that a no nonsense coach from Yorkshire, actually stopped the session and told a young Joe Cole, to stop doing cruyff turns, because he didn't want any of that in his session.

I've seen comments about the FA Cup kits. I know there are some very keen Everton historians on here, but can anyone help with what we wore in 1966 -- Coventry at home? White, I think. Then, in the following round against Man City, I think City wore maroon and we wore white with black shorts for all 3 games, but I stand to be corrected.

And was there a much-awaited toss of a coin for which team wore blue in the Final, maybe on the preceding Wednesday?

To make it into Lilleshall, a series of local, regional and national trials took place to whittle down around 2,000 of the country's finest 14-year-olds, with just 16 players selected to attend the FA's School of Excellence each year.

The fundamental problem was the process Tony. Scholes and Butt said that they were picked up, because Bruan Kidd had watched 10+ games first. The Lilleshall trial process just rewards big, explosive, fast types like Campbell, Hesketh etc.

It's one of my biggest regrets, but if I'm being honest, it's not because of the football. I had a feeling I might leave home at sixteen, so I didn't really want to leave home at fourteen, but when I got a guaranteed apprenticeship whilst I was still at school, I gave my education up almost instantly.

What a fucking fool. I thought I was clever, but I obviously wasn't clever enough and I often think to myself that I might have ended up with ten O'Levels, if I would have went to Lilleshall, instead of the absolute zero, I ended up leaving school with.

Education has got to be a massive part of any academy system, imo, it would be if I had anything to do with it, but even more important than that, would be to oversee that my coaches had the ability to teach the kids how to constantly pass the ball and move! (I'd also make sure they could dribble, once they mastered these absolutely massive fundamentals of the game!!)

The mid-eighties might have been one of the toughest periods in our city's entire existence, but the people had spirit and were always looking for a laugh, and Everton were absolutely fucking brilliant!!

You got to the attention of Bobby Robson by two recommendations, one of them was by someone at Liverpool FC I believe. One of the referees in East Villa's league, your local club, gave your name to his brother-in-law, Geoff Twentyman who was a scout at Liverpool. He knew you through Jim Aspinall, the Liverpool scout who got you training with Liverpool. Jim was a real genuine man and a good Bluenose but a Liverpool scout at the same time!

The manager of Liverpool Boys persuaded me to swerve Lilleshall and let you continue playing for Liverpool Boys instead. I know your mother wasn't happy for you to leave home at 14 either so she was glad to see you stay. As for me.... well, that's another story!

I saw those three games v City and I've had a good think about those colours but I honestly can't remember what colour we played in.

Thinking of the last game at Molinyeux, I'd go with your black shorts and white shirts and I think we did toss up with Sheffield Wednesday for the right to wear Blue at Wembley.

Thanks for your thoughts about kits. I'm meeting a pal on Monday who assures me he knows the answers, I'll let you know what he says.

I hope you are well, you deserve some peace after all you've been through!

Derek Temple told me when he scored his goal he was running on to meet a cross from the right and he tripped up, fell and went past the ball, all he could do was make an attempted back heel and it went into the net. Looked great though.

I think he said Westie had a blinder that night as well.

Don't mention 1969.

Is this what you meant Dave?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYisPP55Atw

The player I remember from those games is Johnny Crossan the City inside forward. I don't know what happened to him after he left City, an Irish international.

He was very good in those games although possibly not as good as Ray Wilson who handled Mike Summerbee brilliantly in those games. If I'm not mistaken City where in the 2nd Division at the time but on their way back up at the end of the season.

i will look him up, he was just before my time. Always enjoy yours and Tony's comments.