Everton U21s defeated at Tamworth in the National League Cup tonight

Just gather the troops and gird their loins ready for the encounter. I could open the Live Forum in anticipation (or should that be trepidation?).

He does know how to put the ball in the net.

I need to count up how many he has got this season!

Plenty — I doubt Moyes knows he's on the books even though he trains with the first team squad!

I feel sure that the excellent Data Analysts and Performance Statisticians at Finch Farm will be keeping dull dour dithering Davey fully informed of the high-energy analytics exhibited by young Braiden Graham in the form of his excellent goal-scoring prowess -- a talent that cannot be ignored.

Poor defending from a free-kick = 2-1 to them

You didn't need much sucking in Michael, but believe it or not James Wallace, I think he is a coach at PNE now, not sure, anyway Wallace played in a pre-season friendly v Tranmere for the first team and had a pretty good game.

After the game, Moyes admitted he didn't know who he was. James later played for Tranmere but had a load of injuries so his career was spoiled by this.

Not sure I saw any concerns for players in the 1st team squad about their places, except young Graham.

You left out drab and dreary when describing the man you really love!

They even hate us at this level.

Anyone who thinks Moyesy won't look at him must have forgotten about James Vaughan (17), Jake Bidwell (16), Jose Baxter (16), Wayne Rooney (16), Jack Rodwell (16), Richard Dunne (17), Michael Ball (17), Ross Barkley (17)... more to mention but point made I'd say.

However, I was not overly impressed by our lads who seemed unable to keep hold of the ball or pass it to a team mate.

Hoping they all get better as the season progresses as I look forward to the time when we have our own young players pushing for the first team.

Anthony # 22, you have made your point very well I think but you won't persuade people who have decided that Moyes doesn't trust youth because of his handling of Rooney. It becomes an emotive subject so you won't win with logic.

As for the current crop, with Graham coming up to his 18th birthday, he's behind hitting the point where he needs a loan or debut.

The standard of the U21s is very, very poor, so hopefully he doesn't stay there. A spell in the Eredvisie or Belgium would do him wonders.

I also thought Jake Bidwell had played for us... and it was a Europa League game. Info thanks to Wiki, career section.

Give him his due, David Moyes is not averse to putting in youngsters in the first team although I think he manages their game time.

Robert, I like your 'A spell in the Eredvisie or Belgium would do him wonders.'

Or a spell in the first team with us would be more of interest to me, but understand the point you are making.

"He broke the record as Everton's youngest ever player to play in a European game."

I identified my source because I know it's not necessarily accurate. I also didn't peruse it for long. My bad.

So only zero appearances in respect of League games.
I'm impressed anyone remembers anyone who only played once for us.

I'm not sure including him significantly strengthens the case for Moyes being blasé about using the youngsters. He still seems pretty cautious about it to me.

Seems like every time I hit the edit button it submits another post.

Michael Ball? Made his debut a few years before Moyes got here. Richard Dunne? He made his debut under Joe Royle.

Jake Bidwell played once along with a few others in a Euro game where the result meant nothing, gave Jose Baxter his debut but never looked after him.

James Vaughan made his debut and scored in a game where he came on with Everton leading 3-0 I think and James scored the last goal

Moyes never trusted Ross Barkley, sending him on loan after a mistake at Blackburn, so I doubt you've made any lasting conclusion.

Moyes did play the likes of Bowen, Andy Johnson and Radzinski, Joe-Max Moore etc as shorter, trickier players in the past though.

I hope Braiden Graham gets in the squad and is used as an option off the bench soon. Good luck, Master Graham.

Holgate made his debut under Martinez I think and Garbutt played once under Moyes in the second half of a League Cup tie v Leyton Oreient when we won 5-0 — he only played 5 times in the 5 years he was here, too much money too soon seemed to cock this lad's career up although he is still playing somewhere!

Forgot to mention earlier on, although it doesn't need saying— everyone who saw Rooney when he was only 15 would have played him, including his first manager, Walter Smith, who said he would play him now but he's still at school.

Rodwell had a special talent when he was very young — pity he never worked harder to improve that talent.

Apart from wanting to put Barkley in his team before Barkley got a bad leg injury.

What a load crap!

This site is full of fucking dickheads like Abrahams and Kermit.

You're supposed to be adults and all we see is ‘dreary... doesn't trust young players'.

Then we have people wanting Graham in the first team squad because he scored v fucking Tamworth!

Fucking dickheads!!!

Braiden Graham can finish, but is slight and struggles to affect the game imo. Nobody near a step up to the first team.

We need to step up academy recruitment, organisation and overall quality.

I wrote you a couple of replies but deleted them. I'm honestly far too old to get upset by them but you seem to be having these outbursts of anger a bit regularly, can't you control them?

I sincerely hope you are okay, best wishes, mate.

I think Moyes has moved on a bit and to judge him as the same fella from 15 years ago isn't quite right.

Early days yet for the season but the most important player to the way he wants the team to play appears to be Garner in the No 6 role. We missed him there against Villa even though he had a good game as temporary left-back. Röhl is the other option there, I guess, and he's 19.

I have never seen either of them post shite on here.

That said, I think Moyes does give the young lads a go, but maybe only in certain positions. For instance, it may be difficult to play a 17-year-old kid when he's calling Barry a young lad and saying he's not ready.

Imo, we are in very good and steady hands for now with Moyes; if we have lads good enough at any age, he's likely to cast an eye over them.

I myself have a 17-year-old... believe me when I tell you it takes some stepping up to play against men. Imagine Tarkowski nailing the average 17-year-old, they would certainly know about it.

This isn't a computerised manager game, this is real life and the Premier League is very physical, ask any player who's come from any of the other top 5 leagues, they all say the same thing.

Best to be realistic, ideally positive if possible too, we've had a half decent start, we should have beaten Leeds or at least got a point but we weren't at it. Villa we completely dominated, but unfortunately our strikers are average; we have an Ollie Watkins that game and we win comfortably. But where we have spent our last few seasons, it's difficult to get strikers of that level; everyone wants them.

If Beto or Barry steps up, then great; if not, we have another window in January. Beto will fetch close to £25M, maybe add McNeil -- he's also around that value. Put the whole £50M on someone who's more likely to bag and hopefully push on for Europe.

I myself go to all the home games as a season ticket holder, we are so much better to watch now than we have been in years, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

I was called a dickhead on here the other day by a fellow ToffeeWebber.

To be fair to him, I was being sarcastic, but I don't think I'll comment on any of his posts in future. Feel sure it won't bother him too much :)

- have a strong record with relevant youth international team through the age groups; and
- debut before age 19 at the latest; or
- have a season-long loan in the Championship or decent Euro league by age 20

The sooner you debut or get your loan, the better your chances. If you play more than about 20 U21 games, your chances seem to decrease dramatically.

For those saying Moyes doesn't trust youth - please look at other clubs!

In Dyche's last full season with us, Everton were something like 10th for minutes given to teenagers.

The loan system seems to now be treated as the way to get experience -- ahead of 5 minutes here or there at the end of games.

I understand the physical difference a young lad faces when he plays in first team games at a young age. Braiden Graham played in the Irish Football league at 15½ years of age and came on as a sub in the Irish FA Cup Final for Linfield.

One of the very best goalscorers and footballers I ever saw was Jimmy Greaves, he was very slight and played when the game was a lot tougher than it is now regarding the physical stuff at about 16 or 17 years of age.

Not saying Braiden is in Greaves's class obviously but he looks a natural goalscoring poacher to me. Yes, it is only at a very lower class of football but, given that he would play with top professionals that Everton now have up front, he might just put away some of the chances our present strikers are missing.

I think Ryan loses his rag too easily and I didn't take his anger seriously or personally. I don't think things like that cut deep when you get older.

I always remember in a film when a fella lost his rag and apologised by saying, “Sorry Sir, outburst of anger instantly regretted.” He got a walkover instead of a court-martial.

The Premier League is so quick and physical that, unless your body is well honed, you can get seriously injured.

Moyes was making that case with Harrison Armstrong, saying he is technically ready for the Premier League but needs to fill out a bit more so a loan at a slightly lower level will enhance his progress.

Who are the young players he hasn't used in his two spells at Everton that have proven to be top players?

My late father would agree with you; he said Greaves was the best goal scorer he ever saw (rated Denis Law pretty highly too). Sadly, I never saw either.

Unfortunately, I am old enough to endorse that. It was an absolute disgrace that Greaves was left out of the World Cup-winning side in 1966.

Although my dad always maintained that Tommy Lawton was the best centre-forward, he ever saw even better than Dixie. He also said that the best centre-half he ever saw was TG Jones and the best midfield player was Duncan Edwards.

And talk of the need to be physically up to it is to me exemplified by Anthony Gordon, an enthusiastic but spindly lad with us, but a much more filled-out young man of note with Newcastle.

Maybe we need a crate or two of "the dog" at Finch Farm perhaps? :)

'twas Johnny Briggs...he was flogged, then sent to Coronation Street

I remember everyone saying we should give Tom Cannon a go a few years back. I could see straight off he didn't possess the speed of thought or power to succeed at the highest level; same with Ellis Simms and Lewis Dobbin.

The gulf is massive.

I saw T G Jones through the eyes of a very young boy but could never forget what an absolute brilliant footballer he was. Duncan Edwards... what a player, as good a midfield player I have ever seen — what a tragedy that he died so young.

I saw Tommy Lawton but not for Everton — Notts County in the Second Division, but Tommy was well past his best. Many people thought he was a more complete footballer than Dixie but goals count a lot and Dixie scored plenty.

Was it really Johnny Briggs? I remember the film about people getting highjacked and put on slave labour aboard ships but didn't know it was him. I think his dad was Sam Kidd who seemed to appear in nearly every bleedin' English film that was ever made!

As for Johnny, he should have asked to be flogged twice instead of being sent to Coronation Street — was Sam Kidd in Coronation Street?

I could see him making his debut this season - or better still going on loan.

I don’t particularly buy into the idea you need a loan to toughen up. For me, the loan is to play with and against better quality footballers - since that’s the real challenge. I’d rather see him in the Eredivisie playing decent football than in the third tier in England.

Hard to find such players, but they do exist; and if we went to your favourite website, Transfermarkt, and totted up the values, then I'd say there's at least £300M worth of talent in those 10 players listed.

Plenty for a mid table side, but few would be genuine starters every week of a side competiting for the title or European Cup.

Ben White replaced by Timber, Semenyo might get a big move but wouldn't be a guaranteed starter. Watkins probably would have started for an Arsenal.

He was mostly out on loan, not being good enough.

And even those who get a debut or a loan may still not make it; the standard is so high, it's tough for these kids.

Something to tell his grandchildren!

I don't think either player actually liked football, which is a bit weird.

Starting appearances may come when the team overall has a better structure with Branthwaite and Mykolenko to provide a good base, and Garner can return to the midfield.

Be good to see him get minutes in games though, which I am sure will come soon enough.

I also wouldn't get too hung up about his price tag. £35M isn't a big transfer fee. It's just a sign of us improving in quality that there are £35M players on the bench.

Not heard that before about them, though I have heard the odd professional does see it as just a job, something they happen to be good at that pays the bills.

Lineker I've always felt found football stressful to play, and was more interested in talking about snooker and cricket. Whenever he's asked about his career, he shrugs and cracks a joke. I think he found it all a bit daft.

Alan Smith said in his autobiography that Lineker had said to him, "Once you've been playing, it's relatively easy to get to 20 goals a season, isn't it?" And Smith was not of that view. I might be wrong on the above, it was just a quite strong impression I got.

An old article from 2017, but an U8s team lost an entire team to professional clubs. Very impressive. Included within it, is the highly rated Amari Moses. 16 and called up to the first team.