A message from the ToffeeWeb team

Not al! impressed!!!!!

Someone has replaced ToffeeWeb with a monstrous turd.

A betting site with its own fan forum.

"Who are we?

For over 10 years, Toffee Web has become a reference for Everton fans and sports betting enthusiasts.

Our mission : To help bettors make better decisions with in-depth analysis, reliable data and passionate expertise.

Our motivation : Sharing our passion for Everton and betting. At Toffee Web, we live and breathe sports. Every day, our editorial teams work to bring you the most accurate and relevant information, ensuring you can bet with confidence and, above all, enjoyment."

I think you just lost 80% of your audience this is a disgrace.. this was our site too once..

Don't worry this post will self destruct in 20 mins...disappear completely..

Such a shame it used to be fun.

Give the owners and administrators a chance to clean up the detritus. The mission statement Christine quoted has already been changed.

Let's see how it looks when the process is finished.

The day ToffeeWeb died.

I, for one, will mourn its passing.

I feel for TW founding father MK whose true-blue commitment I always admire. He has an integrity that is not reflected in our beloved once award-winning TW becoming a pimp for gambling. I suspect that we might see MK slip away and then where will we be?

Thank you Darren - 54. I, too, hated and was embarrassed by those 'fuck-witted fish jokes for 90 minutes a week on the Live Forum'.

Perhaps we can now turn to the 'grown ups' in the autumn of their lives and younger who go on and on about Myko, Pats, Picks, Brannners, Tarks, Keano, Ily, Bets, Baz, Timmy, etcetera fecking etcetera

All the best MK.

God help us one and all.

I've got certs for the 14-45 at Hereford and 15-11 at Huntington.

Thanks Toffeebet.

'Sports'.WTF. 'Sports'. This is Everton. A proud football team with a distinguished history from a city called Liverpool.

'Betting'. How dare you. Remember all the posts slamming our choice of sponsors?

Can we now have job adverts for call-centres please?

The login page is all skew wiff as well. Lyndon!!!

How have ToffeeWeb been a betting site since 1994 as the home page banner says?

I know there were some betting links hidden away but with the settings on my browser I couldn't see them, or any other ads. Now it's in yer face!

Seems to be some issues with it though, "Recent Comments" has disappeared and also one thread.

But it's interesting that we're now allowed to edit the articles and reply to them as a site moderator.

It's not 'change' PH, unless you are 100 per cent behind it.

Mind you, I did enjoy your 'But I bet. ' and I can see TWEB becoming a Rugby League site if the punters are lining up with their wagers/wages.

But then the incentive to become a gambling addict takes over.

Getting a new site up and running takes time, this site looks different, and there will be teething problems like links from older news not linking but I went for positive vibes. Not a fan of the betting links, but the site has to make money. Probably better than being inundated with adverts poppong up every where, but I'll learn to ignore the betting links.

I don't do betting. It's evil.

Probably better than being inundated with adverts poppong up every where, but I'll learn to ignore the betting links.

Erm, everywhere?

This is the home-page for you to check and relax.

https://www.ToffeeWeb.com/. It's been a betting site and 'SPORTS' site since 1994.

Enjoy Ian.

Not sure how this one will go but so far I’m confused.

I’ll wait and see. I wanted to leave the site when Lyndon left but felt there was nowhere else that offered what I was used to. So I stayed.

EVERTON AND MARINE

Michael?

GO TFG.

I hope this feedback is taken constructively and if necessary, a paid, no-ads option should be made available.

Apparently I'm in the editorial team with access to edit articles and other people's comments.

That's the only way I interacted with the site.

Definitely some interesting teething problems! They will take a while to sort out, I fear.

Please bear with us.

Dreadful.

These writers are typically the ones generating the clickbait AI content that no-one on here wants to read or engage with.

There are plenty of great contributors among the ToffeeWeb population. Did you think of engaging with them? I suspect they'd have contributed for free and you'd have a more authentic site.

I think I might actually be done now.

Fucking hell!

Who are we?
For over 10 years, Toffee Web has become a reference for Everton fans and sports betting enthusiasts.

Our mission : To help bettors make better decisions with in-depth analysis, reliable data and passionate expertise.

Our motivation : Sharing our passion for Everton and betting. At Toffee Web, we live and breathe sports. Every day, our editorial teams work to bring you the most accurate and relevant information, ensuring you can bet with confidence and, above all, enjoyment.

I'm looking at some real chancers here. My account can be deleted.

I am willing to wait and see if things change but I will be looking elsewhere.

Whoever is running ToffeeWeb be like Fagan in Oliver Twist and review the situation —- please— you know it makes sense to do so.

Next thing we'll have adverts for "Dignitas" and all those cremation adverts presently on the telly.

A complete ending for the life of all Evertonians.

As I am now able to reply as a site moderator, I'd like to take this new TW incarnation off to Dignitas. It needs a dignified death now.

ToffeeWeb has never been a betting site to support bettors. It has never been a 'Sports' site. At times, it has bemoaned the role of betting in our club and football more generally.

It's been my browser homepage for a decade or more. No longer -- I wish you all luck for Everton fun, insight and entertainment here, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Our common bond of Everton kept me coming back for more but sadly that now ends. The chant of 'Premier League corrupt as fuck' sadly now extends to this beloved site.

Goodbye one and all.

It's making it more annoying to post on here!

Playing devil's advocate however, all I would ask those who are saying they're done / leaving etc is this - websites like this one, which require enormous amounts of time, manpower and dedication to run, can rarely do so on goodwill and nothing more forever. How else is ToffeeWeb supposed to support itself? Wasn't some form of advertising inevitable? Is this worse than it going behind a pay wall...?

I read ToffeeWeb every day though I rarely post. I despise how ubiquitous betting has become in football, and view it as a predator on young men who are being raised by a hyper-monitised internet and media culture.

And now here it is on ToffeeWeb, an audacious reverse-merger in the bag and the brazen lie that ToffeeWeb has been about “Sports & Betting Since 1994.” Absolutely gross.

I hope Lyndon can make Evertonia into more of a blog than a magazine. Probably not. There’s clearly a desire for ordinary Evertonians to have a place to congregate on the internet. ToffeeWeb will no longer be that place for me.

I would think going back to the TW we knew just a few days ago, and which we had come to (reluctantly?) accept, would be like turning an oil tanker 180 degrees in the ocean - a massive task. So the reality might be that there is no going back to the recent version of this site.
However, I think it might well be the death of ToffeeWeb, if it’s not already in its last throes, if it doesn’t do something about several things.
One is obviously the prominence of the betting bait. I doubt more people will go onto the betting sites from here on out - so demote their prominence.
Other changes that should be reversed or modified??

While they have endeavoured to preserve and bring over all of the legacy content that ToffeeWeb has built up over many many years on the internet, the homepage has changed drastically, and many are understandably shocked by the emphasis given to betting and online gambling.

But most of you will I hope understand and appreciate the effort and investment that goes into running a modern website, even if it iis nothing like what you are used to or were led to expect. But sadly, monetisation of the asset is essential to its existence and survival.

Such realisms run counter to the ideals and morals of many of our readers, especially those who have grown up on Merseyside and lived through the deprivation and destruction that has been wrought in the name of change and fiscal prudence (aka 'austerity').

I hope you can stick with us through this change. My personal mission is to ensure the continuity of the football side of things as I have always done, focussed on presenting and discussing issues of the day for Everton Football Club with some of its ardent fans.

The primary mechanism of daily news stories and other articles, each with the facility to comment will continue, hopefully just as it was before... although it will clearly never be the same again.

Gambling is anathema to me.

What a shame this website has imploded. It's hard to believe I once had ToffeeWeb as my home page. Goodbye and good luck Evertonians.

It looks like a lot of people are going to be leaving this website by the look of things, but before you go, in the words of Derek Trotter, this time next year, some of us will be millionaires!

I’d be a hypocrite if I was personally bothered about gambling advertisements, because I used to always have a bet, but I can understand the outrage and the paragraph (2) that has really stood out to me, in this whole thread, was what Robert B@69, wrote.

There’s so many clever and observant people on ToffeeWeb, but something tells me it’s not going to last if this is the road, it is taking.

I might be wrong, maybe it is going to reinvent itself and become a place for serious and sensible gamblers, but if I’m being honest this new website, looks a little bit to technical, for an old dinosaur like myself!

Ray @2, What the hell has happened to ToffeeWeb? Is it now primarily a betting site?

The way I look at it, a lot of betting links have been added to the new homepage but behind that, the news stories and articles, Live Forum etc, will continue as before.

That said, the ‘Who We Are' section is disturbing and an insult to every reader and contributor to this once wholesome site. It simply is not true.

I'd have been slow to take to the change, but may have done. Not with the taste this leaves behind.

I'm not sure anyone has the right, owners or not to claim such a thing.

I object to them when watching sport on TV be in football or golf in particular/ when add breaks are full of adds from Betting companies.

I object to being bombarded with Betting Ads so I see my engagement as being minimal unless it changes.

Mike Gaynes, I enjoy your level-headed comments but felt disappointed with your comments about giving it a chance. I can accept the need for revenue generating but not being bombared with betting ads.

It's easy to skip over the betting ads but that big blue square at the top of the home page is annoying.

Now I've figured out how not to view the big blue square thing, things have improved.

Arguably those who who are that strongly opposed gambling ought not to support Everton. Or perhaps the alternative, to lament the decision but carry on watching (or commenting)

I have no skin in the game with gambling -- pardon the pun. I don't bet, I might even be one of the very few people alive who has never even bought a lottery ticket. But when I look at AI (which tbf I don't entirely trust) the data suggests that something like 98%- 99.4% of gamblers are not addicts. That's still leaves a lot of ruined lives but equally it is a context.

As for the cosmetic changes, I have a small number of sites I visit, most of which have had 'updates' and I'm in the camp that doesn't like change and for the type of forum site that ToffeeWeb is, plain and functional works best for me.

That said, I'll likely get used to it as I have with the others. What would have been nice, though maybe too expensive?, would have been to add a feature that notifies you when a reply to you is made. This exists on other sites I use.

My guess is that like all new sites, there will be a long list of bugs to work through, not least how it works on different operating systems. One site I use a lot, albeit way more complex than this, is still working on fixes 3 years after re-launch.

The main bookmakers want you to play the casino's and slots and that's where the problems of addiction raises its ugly head. Let's not pretend otherwise.

I don't bet on Everton as I've never won on them and the last time was the 1968 FA Cup Final, bloody heartbroken.

I don't think posts have been deleted. But the boilerplate stuff you highlight is a bit much, I would have to agree. I will see if the team can do something to tone this down as it is a bit much.

As I say, it's mostly just the Homepage, and you have to scroll down to see all the betting links. Behind this, the old ToffeeWeb is still there, if you are interested? But no, I think you'd decided already to leave us.

Rest assured, you will be missed, and a personal thank you from me for all your contributions.

Thanks for your post and appreciation for your patience and understanding. I think it will take a little while to sort things out.

I really hope BETo's form improves and he's starts banging the goals in.

Because if you remember last year, when he was on form, there weren't many BETter.

In fact I'd WAGER if he gets one, he'll get a few.

Come to think of it, for all we know, his lack of goals might be due to a medical condition (maybe he's a diaBETic?).

TBH, the whole BETo/Barry striker drama at the club the moment feels almost Shakespearean (like MacBETh).

Maybe Moyes should take a leaf out of Kendall's book and take the squad for a Chinese and a few sherBETS.

My TIP is give him time, although I understand supporters only have so much patience and if he doesn't score soon, there won't be a club from here to tiBET who'll want to buy him.

I've not been a poster, but now it seems to be a haven for 4 or 5 people to outdo whom is the better fan... I travel from here, I travel from there...

I get it, but it's about the football, not about long-winded travel tales...

I didn't think we had that many travelogues but Danny O'Neill's pieces appeared to be pretty popular. Still, I'm with you, I'd much rather talk about football than people's travel exploits. Point noted.

Paul Griffiths #43, I've been looking forward to the opportunity to congratulate you on finally, after all these years of cowering behind an alias, finding the courage to post under your own name. I'm proud of you.

I did keep all your secrets, but I'm delighted to see that you finally feel free to drop the mannerly Griffiths veneer and return to your insult-slinging self.

However, do work on the spelling.

As for those TW readers that don't like seeing betting ads, I suppose you don't watch any football? And don't watch Everton in particular with "Stake" plastered across their chests?

Surely this isn't what the final version of the site is going to look like?

I haven't been involved in the redesign of the Homepage, which is I think what is upsetting most people.

I am more of a content provider and, since the original switchover back in February, I have done what I can working with the new owners to keep the site relevant on a daily basis and provide material that I think is of interest to Evertonians (not all, it seems... but it was always put up on a "take it or leave it" basis). If you're not interested, you don't have to read it, you don't have to comment on it.

As said above, it appears that those aspects of the old site have been preserved and will continue going forward -- as long as all you new Moderators don't trash the Admin Dashboard!

So it all comes down to whether you can get past the betting stuff or not...

I like a nice, clean, uncluttered look to any site that I go to, and just hate it when ads pop up. I hope this feedback is taken constructively and if necessary, a paid, no-ads option should be made available.

I kept meaning to check if the 'patron' membership scheme Lyndon implemented was still working, and if that ad-free capability was still something people could subscribe to. I haven't discussed this with the new owners but I will definitely raise it with them.

No option to view latest comments?

I thought the Recent Comments heading on the Homepage would bring up a page that had the last 50 or 100 comments, with links back to the corresponding threads. This would be a big plus, I think.

Okay, it should link to this:

Recent Reader Comments -- but we need to have a lot more showing so people can catch up easily.

ps: Just added the link. Now, if only I could fix the rest of the issues raised about the Homepage...

Was sad to see it disappear, but good to see the feature still exists, just have to scroll down the homepage a bit. Thanks for pointing me to it MK.

I can't say these changes bother me to much, I have a little bet on a Saturday, nothing crazy, I also understand that they need revenue to keep the site going so I'm not bothered about all the gambling links but I'm not a fan of change.

I've been on this site for a good few years now and even though I don't post all the time I've no intention of leaving, as long as I can read the posts and comment I couldn't care less what's on the homepage.

Most of the other fan sites like GOT of which I'm a member have lots of childish arguments on them, posting GIFS and emoji's which I absolutely despise and other nonsense about cheese on toast (don't ask). I'm sure we'll get used to it before long and as MK says it's not the finished article.

I've had a look again at the site and I think I'll withdraw my earlier comments!

It's been like an episode of Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy this week. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but I keep watching.

I guess I should scarper forever now. Especially as I've been promoted to lofty heights of moderator.

Tempting offer but there'd be carnage!

I will keep popping in to see what you lot say about the matches. It's 2025 -- the genie is already out the bottle and it will never go back.

I like the new set up, but there is a little too much given over to the betting adverts.

As far as some people's objection to gambling is concerned, you don't bet so its not a problem to you.

Millions of people get lots of pleasure from having a gamble, the people who foolishly get into trouble with it are minuscule compared to how many bet.

Alcohol is many many thousands of times more fatal than gambling. It's all about moderation.

We had several lengthy discussions about Stake. Many were willing to live through it understanding the financial side of the issue. This could not possibly be reasonably read as being alright with the development.

So then we enter a period of decent growth, some oldsters reluctantly return, and a genuine opportunity to engage the community was possible. It was then possible to float a controversial move and not lose most of us.

With this move, we see a hardline shift and no real effort to get feedback. Just a move that looks like Michael is supposed to smooth over while no compromise looks likely. I bet this goes over like a Red Zeppelin.

I have got used to going on ToffeeWeb every day for a fix but, if all the regulars are departing, it will not be the same.

I will check out Evertonia but initially did not think it matched the "ToffeeWeb" experience. That may now change.

We will see but the only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain.

It could change but we should respect Lyndon's preference.

That's just daft. What is going on?

For 20 years the site has been an oasis in a desert of click bait and you're right, if you can navigate through the obscene first page, the ToffeeWeb of old is still there, but buried under the weight of something it never was, a betting site.

I have loved this site, it's articles and banter, because it was more than just football, it was meeting your mates.

I want to thank you too, personally, for your help and advice during my time here, I would never have persisted if not for your advice in 2004 I think, it's been a joy to write for ToffeeWeb and I was proud of its stand against the management of the club in its dark years.

All Things Must Pass...

Thank you, Michael, I wish you well. I'll miss your unforgiving bluntness, brilliant, if not frustrated analysis every game but most of all, your love for Everton.

Thank you. The Parting Glass lies empty...

I'm getting used to the new look and the betting adverts don't bother me anyway.

Having now navigated the site, comments etc on my laptop, I can see that nothing has changed other than the prominence of betting ads and the house style / layout (if they're the correct terms).

The ads I just skip, as I did previously. The style / layout I'm already used to (and the glitches in things such as having to continually sign in are merely temporary, so can be discounted).

The content is the same. The regular posters are still here, and the community hasn't changed. So I won't be going anywhere else.

Now that's 'cowering'. 'Insults'? Nah. Home truths, but you knew that already.

Agree totally with you, I can get to home games but don't fancy aways due to health reasons.

The adventures of others amuse me, long may they continue.

Then you have nothing to moan about.

This is not about the changed look of ToffeeWeb, this is about the total carpet bombing promotion of gambling.

I know people won't care what I think, but this promotion of betting is plain disgusting and gambling addiction is a real and serious problem.

I am out.

Thanks for all the articles and mostly constructive, but sometimes over the top, arguments and discussions, but I am not visting this site ever again.

Again, my compliments.

Any recommendations for Everton sites. Thanks.

Everyone knows bookies etc never lose in the long run. So if their shiny persuasive promotions get people deeply in financial shit as they try and win back their losses, think you may find the reason many of us think this deal should never have happened.

I wasn't paid out by a bookie on a bet on the National. I have never bet again since but not everyone can do that. There lies the problem of addictions.

Thank you, Michael, for your always brilliant analysis and at times barbed responses. I think this site has moved away from its original values and is losing brilliant contributors like Christine and others.

I wasn't a regular contributor but a loyal one. Where I am now I'm not sure.

If the Live Forum is still up on matchdays, I might pop back but this monstrosity is not for me. Goodbye, Au revoir, Aufwiedersehen, Adios, Ciao etc…..

I'm trying to chase down this repeated login thing. Does it happen when you switch to a different article and want to submit another comment?

Thanks for any description you can provide.

@45: A few things not right here. Why can I reply as site moderator?

That is odd, and a bit worrying from a security perspective. The Tech guys are looking into it.

@47: Apparently I'm in the editorial team with access to edit articles and other people's comments.

Where you actually able to see the meat in articles and comments? Or was it just the buttons at the top of the article that you could see, but that didn't lead anywhere? Can you still do it?

@52: These writers are typically the ones generating the clickbait AI content that no-one on here wants to read or engage with.

Some of the writers certainly have a different style from me, but I'm not sure any are generating clickbait AI content. Do you have any examples?

@52: There are plenty of great contributors among the ToffeeWeb population. Did you think of engaging with them?

We've always made it exceptionally easy for our readers to submit articles for publication. I wish you'd've written something!

@56: I'd like my email address to be removed from any records this site holds.

I think we should be able to delete your information, but you won't be able to post any more comments.

Change is what it is. People will get used to the site layout and ads.

It's the change in purpose that finishes me off. I know you'll provide Everton content but I fear you'll be swimming against the tide. Personally I don't want to be used by a betting company.

If that is the case here then the owners of ToffeeWeb are essentially putting out a tempting buffet of “new customer only” offers in the hope that you click through and open an account. And if you do then they'll get a fee. Fair enough I guess, as that money comes from the bookmaker like a finder's fee. But really the ToffeeWeb owners will also stand to benefit financially if anyone who does this goes on to lose a lot of money gambling on that account. So they have a vested interest in Everton fans losing money as that becomes a revenue stream for them.

For my colleague's website I think that such a notion was fair game, as his website was exclusively designed for people looking to gamble - but ToffeeWeb is entirely different; it's always been a pretty safe website that only really attracts Everton fans of all varieties. I appreciate that any business needs to find a revenue stream, but this is a pretty insidious one as far as I am concerned.

Michael Kenrick and other ToffeeWeb owners; apologies if none of this applies to this current rebrand, but if it does then I think it's a big problem.

I've learned so much more than just Everton related stuff and it's been an education in itself and the names in type became real friends. Those of us that leave will find somewhere new to go and there is so much more that unites us than divides us as Evertonians.

Btw, I have never written a post on a laptop and always on a mobile hence my awful spelling and punctuation, Michael. That's my excuse anyway. See you all on the other side.

A sad day for Blues. I have logged out and logged in again, just to check what I am seeing and it remains appalling.

Michael Kenrick, I have admired your work since I first logged in 27 years ago. I wish you all the best and thank you for what used to be the best fan site in football.

I am finished.

Cheers, Michael. Keep up the good work on the site.

Bet it doesn't last long. Odds on to fail. Gone to the dogs.

Perhaps some of the critique will be noted by the design team and the betting stuff might be made less obtrusive. The Homepage to any website is extremely important, and ToffeeWeb is no exception. If the content is repellent, then the impact will be inevitable.

A huge thanks to those who have said they will stick around. The legacy content has suffered massively from a lack of updates since February, which are finally being addressed now as we transition to the new website.

But ironically, a new fault has just developed in the main Dashboard for updating the news and articles... it never rains but it pours!

Oh, and to Christine @121... what a wonderful, heartfelt and touching message, deeply appreciated. Thank you.

However, unlike the intended targets, I can ignore the gambling links so I’ll keep getting my daily fix of compelling content.

Michael, I appreciate the costs and effort of the migration and running of this site are substantial so I understand what it takes to keep this site free to users.

The only change I’d request is to remove the home page header which is a straightforward lie.

Good luck ironing out the site. Don't envy you.

I will probably move over to Evertonian permanently but pop back yo TW on match days.

PH it's not pathetic just because you don't agree with some posters decisions to leave. But it is pathetic to criticise some peoples principles

Ads? There's ads on the home page? I've gotten so used to the page now that I don't even see them, just scroll right past.

Mike #106, 'jump to last' is still there but the obtrusive moderator links hid it, but we're all no longer moderators so it's clear to see.

Not had any problems logging in. My big problem is the big blue 🟦 header with the bullshit statement that it's been a betting site since 1994, but I can avoid that.

There’s some extremely predictable and dramatic reactions to this. Some read like a romantic poet who’s imbibed too much Laudanum, and simply can’t face the cruelty of the World anymore.
You’ll all be back in a few weeks when you realise it’s just essentially the same place. Where else are you going to go?

It’s sad, yes. But it’s also, not really a big deal.
Let go of wanting things to stay the same forever, would be my advice.
And also, don’t be so offended by them claiming that TW has been a sports gambling site since 1994. This is what scumbag capitalists do, they lie, get over it.
It would be a much more powerful act to stay on this site and constantly comment on what a shit-show it is, than leave.

And most importantly, don’t ever click on any of the gambling links! Ever. It’s pretty straightforward. Or, pay money to subscribe to TW and have zero adds - if this was possible. Or, start your own Everton fan forum website.
Do something, rather than crying like it’s the end of the World.

Really?

Shame, it used to be a home for Everton enthusiasts.

I despise gambling for personal reasons. I get that it's everywhere anyway and football in general is riddled with different ways to try and tempt you in. I get that the majority will be able to see past the adverts and simply not engage.

However, this just doesn't feel right. No matter what MK says, this isn't our ToffeeWeb anymore. It has morphed into something far less appealing. The intentions are clearly set out in that "Who Are We" description.

And for that reason, I'm out.

MK, it was genuinely brilliant here, at it's peak. All the best to you. Cheers.

I think Andrea's words are very wise in that.you can only make change from within. Better to fight than walk away.

Michael K I was wondering why you hadn't replied to my email..now I know lol. I don't envy you sorting all this out. Good luck and get yourself plenty of paracetamol.

Bottom of your browser page there's 3 lines. Tap and it gives you a range of options for the page, including font size.

I am now officially deleting my shortcut and account after over 20 years..

Once the site changed ownership, it began putting out such garbage from Anjishnu — who is clearly not a Blue — that it really isn’t surprising that there were ulterior motives to the purchase and that the odds were always pointing towards the site further declining in time. Only Michael was really left to save its soul.

But then we’re reminded that the community of true Blues is the real soul of the site. So can we stomach what it’s become to carry on the community so many of us hold dear. Only time will tell. Clearly the new owners are scrambling to tone down the gambling messaging, but in the end it’s unavoidable. The site has been sullied, and we’ll all choose whether we can scrape off the grime to get our fix.

Truth is that I dabbled in Evertonia but haven’t been there in a couple months. I suggested this awhile back, and my hope remains that Lyndon — in addition to his truly excellent writing —can create a space for threads on topics people want to discuss. So rather than reading 6 paragraphs of quotes from Gana about his love for Everton, someone can propose a topic — eg: Should Garner remain at right back for the remainder of the season, assuming we don’t sign someone new in January? — and then the comments can follow.

But agreed that this new site just feels gross. It’s what happens when any passion project eventually dies and either it ceases to exist or the vultures come to feed on its scraps.

I am not a fan (yet) of the new layout of the website and the betting links are a bit in your face.
But as I have had a massive £20 in my online account since January I am sure I will be able to resist temptation.

Secondly. Yep the new betting ad dominated site looks like crap.

Thirdly, if you haven’t posted in two years under your own name as opposed to various pseudonyms (David, Dave etc) and you only like reading the views of about 3 people then why are you coming on here acting like Lord of the manor berating those who’ve continued to use and support the site and complaining about it? Sorry no one turned ToffeeWeb into a permanent creepy shrine to Tom Davies.

Stephen (152): Joseph MPUTU is a top-flight WUM who has not been on here for ages, He nearly always pops on with provocative stuff like this. It's nice to see you again here Stephen but don't worry this Joseph MPUTU will not be back here in a month. If he replies, Stephen, note the tone and tenor of his 'reply'.

What I really want to say is well done Michael Kenrick. Let's not forget, MK is the only one of the editorial team with the balls and respect for posters to discuss these changes with us and offer an opinion of how things might work. He has done this repeatedly on this thread responding respectfully to collective and individual concerns

Shame on the people who imposed these changes on us - and MK - who clearly lack the integrity to explain or defend these changes to the people that matter - us.

This they ought to have done on the first day. An article should have been prepared - Jesus, they have had plenty of time to do it - to be released on this new day, but they chose not to do this.

Meanwhile, MK is left alone carrying the can. Today, it's not yet midnight here, was ToffeeWeb's lowest every day but it was also MK' finest ever day on this site.

Another meanwhile: where are you Mr. Roy?

And yeah, maybe he took the money and ran — though don’t think we ever got the whole story and would be interesting to know just how much money it was — but we can still lament what’s become of TW since he left.

Never in a million years under previous ownership would it have become a site where the owners (who pretend to care about Everton) are preying on readership built up over many years, by people who hold the site dear, all in hopes we gamble so they can make more money.

And perhaps I should add that I like the format, design, and colour code of the new pages if I can avoid those shocking invitations to gamble.

And credit where credit is due: some one has noted the pushback on here and dumped the 'sports and betting' since 1994' and reworded the accompanying lines.

Thanks for that and perhaps that gives us hope that this new set-up and (yes) reconception is something that we can have a conversation about.

To some extent, this reminds me of the many times I have seen really successful cafes and restaurants sold and the new owners (arrogantly) change the theme of the business and lose everything in the first few months. I've also seen previous owners buy back and make the business thrive again.

Clearly, the new website has more than disappointed a massive proportion of the TWebber's on here. That's unsurprising 'cos imo they've not recognised what they were buying and this makes me think that the management has 2 thirds of f all squared brain power.

Mike Gaynes gave a level headed view. Give them time to analyse the response from the current "clients". I think this is fair but better do it quickly because, once you've lost your customer base you'll have to fight like hell to get it back.

Not sure how many months I would give this lot before the site is sold or closed!

Gambling and its pervasive influence on the game turns my stomach, so sadly I will have to take my leave.

I wish you all the best for the future and thank you once again for your incredible effort and for creating my Everton family.

But how often has it been said that the best thing about (Old) T W was the contributors and what they have to say.
So apart from the very poor taste window dressing, what has changed.

Back in 2004/5(?) there were individual Club HYS sections on TeamTalk, the Everton one was mega busy and trust me it was seriously cut and thrust on all manner of topics.
Anyway they stopped it because, 'participants' were, I think spending more time on the HYS than clicking on their shite articles and Ads. and tying up editorial time for no profit,

As far as I know TeamTalk is still going so they called it right from their perspective,

So unless they shut down the comments or make it compulsory to join one of their gambling sites to comment.

Continue to Have Your Say.- (and don't click on or scroll across the Ads)

Thanks Michael. I do hope it all works out - fingers crossed.

P.S. Moyes out.

There are a couple of things that I’m experiencing. First, being logged out each visit and secondly, I browse from my phone and for the life of me I can’t find the link to latest comments.

Reading, admittedly between the lines, Lyndon's hopes for Evertonia, it seems that he became increasingly unhappy with the many meanders on here as posters took threads in another direction, sometimes infusing lectures on politics, religion, and. take your pick. And so a thread that was once ostensibly on something to do with Everton, fights Middle-East wars, for example, and so on.

This happened all the time, with erm 'experts' often talking quite ignorantly and highly politically in a rough rudimentary way about a geopolitics that they did not really understand.

I prefer to read The Guardian and The New York Times.

Maybe Michael, who I think is the only one of the 'editorial team' to care enough, could 'police' this, but that might be asking a lot. Perhaps MK could quite simply cut any off-topic post with an editorial word somewhere to say why this is happening.

Now I love full and frank discussion of politics or literature but I have my places for that. The heat of politics and religion and their multiple angles inevitably ignites the back and forth on here. Our preferred politics subverts threads. I'm sure that I have been guilty of this too.

But keeping ToffeeWeb about Everton will help the moderators in their work and, I think, let us enjoy this site more and we bang heads about something that each one of us cares about - Everton. That, after all, is why we signed up to take part in this site for three decades and counting.

But the recent Betting turn that the site has taken today has really caused me concern and I am now considering whether I want to contribute to such a site. I would miss the true Evertonians of this site, who have agreed and disagreed with me over the years.

Are you backing these new invitations to gamble and the new conception of the site? You seem to suggest that it doesn't matter and move on and look away. There would be uproar if it was an alcohol company, and you yourself, forgive me if I'm wrong, enjoy your drink but do not gamble.

Your 'look away' might work for you and I. I don't gamble. But remember Paul, there are people who spend some of their lives, if not longer, hovering over the gambling addiction line, and a single trigger might send an unstable person on a spiral. These adverts are deliberate and callous triggers and the people behind them do not give a shit about someone going off the rails into addiction. They have made a money-minded profit-driven decision to put gambling centre-stage on a site that attracts what they think of as a vulnerable demography, quite likely to take the bait.

It's all about data collection and profiles - logarithms - PH.

The shift to betting is a calculated cold decision, based on exploitingg individuals, but PH remember the great deflection - gamble responsibly, don't have another can of Carling.

How on earth do you know? Another claim based on no substance. Or perhaps you have solid evidence to back this up. If you do, let us know; if you don't, don't bother.

My first shite in the morning and my final shite before I retired to bed.

God knows in the early hours of the morning, if I can't sleep, I sometimes feel the urge..

I feel empty somehow.

Feck, I should have put a bet on us winning the FA Cup.

I do appreciate your efforts, by the way. I seem to have disagreed with most of your views but would never question your passion for the club. This site has been a big part of the 'on the couch' moments of my life.

Though I don't gamble, I'm not particularly anti-gambling. I just have no interest in being part of a gambling site and I have a real mistrust for the owners of the site.

This isn't some emotional reaction. It's a considered response. I'm very comfortable with it and wish those that remain all the best.

@Michael K - Clicking on the profile icon at the top doesn't seem to allow me to delete my account. Can you do that for me please? I would very much like my email address to be removed from any records the site owners could use or sell on.

Just practicing my posts on here while I make my mind up whether I’m staying or not—- my old age is turning me into a Dithering Dave, mind you I still know a good footballer when I see one unlike the real Dithering David!

You went up even further in my estimation after that post. It’s a big man that’s not afraid to apologise

Always professional, never Corporate. For me, this changed the day it was sold. The day, I think, ToffeeWeb lost its soul.

Mike K has tried extremely hard to retain the unique essence that made TW special, but when new owners claimed ToffeeWeb had been the ‘home for betting since 1994’, I think it’s a lost cause. After all, aren’t we supposed to ‘know our history’?

I am going to miss the many regular contributors here. Danny, Dave and Tony, Christine, Mike G, Mark, Paul T, Derek, George, Dale and so so many more. It was also great to see Paul F return.

Thank you Mike K for all your input and work to the site. Your ‘hot off the press’ football reports reminded me so much of the old Pink Echo reporting style. That’s a huge compliment!

Take care everyone.

Thanks folks if you know

Who is not an Evertonian.

Think TFG taking us over and not giving a shit about results, so long as we stay up and Taylor Swift plays at Hill-Dickinson.

Thanks folks if you know

The new layout is great.

The gambling ads sees me delete my acct here.

Good luck all.

For those leaving without any history of gambling problems, I'd just suggest doing as I do and ignore the gambling ads. I (and presumably you) have just ignored any gambling ads on the site previously.

I would suspect that some leaving now might be back 'ere long (if only for the Live Forum?).

Your only post from yesterday is still there… I can’t see any that have been turned off.

Login page is still skew wiff for me, mixed up with some of the articles.

Things I'm pointing out are not meant to be a put-down by the way, I realise you're working on glitches, the /' being one as well I guess. Just helping you to improve, they're things I used to screenshot and email Lyndon about, hence me crying his name every time I encounter a glitch.

What made/makes ToffeeWeb interesting is that the writers are all Evertonians with a deep knowledge and pronounced point of view about the club.

I’ll be posting this one now — let’s see if it’s got there!

Weird.

ToffeeWeb was acquired by Moveup Media. They are based in France but appear to be very international in their outlook.

One of their existing websites is The Playoffs, which caters to the Basketball sector, primarily in the US, but clearly shows their gambling ethos.

The navigation around the site is worse than useless. The whole thing is a disaster and indicates that I and many other users will abandon the wreck and look for a site which is not motivated by greed and is dedicated to the fans and the club.

Goodbye Toffeweb, stick your betting sites up your arse.

I'll be back on ToffeeWeb once the lunatics running it now give the Asylum back to us contributors so we can post to our hearts' content or not.

Please reply on the back of a £20 note.

I know there's still a problem with the Comment Edit facility.
And the Magic Format Buttons below don't work for comments
And The Rumour Mill page ain't working properly
And there's still that horrible banner at the top of the Homepage...
And on and on and on...

I think we'll celebrate with a fantastic all-singing, all-dancing Grande Reopening of the Live Forum for Tonite's Big Match! Get your fllags out now, Boys and Girls!!!

The Welsh 200-metre butterfly champion Owen Money ended up at Gamblers Anonymous. He couldn't resist a flutter.

Unreal but not totally unexpected. Too bad too. I guess that's it for TW.

I must admit that during all the years I have been here I don't remember gambling being a topic of conversation either in articles or the live forum so not sure why there is now a need for 'expert guidance'. Being honest, I am more than capable of losing a bet without anyone telling me how to do it.

I will take a look at the Live Forum during the next game but not sure I will be sticking around given the direction the site has gone -- ironic given the Premier League teams voted to get rid of gambling shirt sponsorship.

I want to thank you for your valued input and time spent looking after this site. This site now has a pretence attitude towards Evertonians. Money has dictated the future course of this site. The new owners have no loyalty to the club or its supporters. I have enjoyed your thoughtful insights and comment even on the few occasions we might have disagreed.

The contributions made by genuine Everton supporters over the years were brilliant. There are too many to name but a few like Danny, Paul Ferry. The Abrahams, Colin, Paul H, Kunai and definitely Christine's contributions I looked forward to reading. There are a couple of other folks not mentioned that also had a real love for ToffeeWeb. It saddens me to see these fine people choosing to leave.

I fear this site will be populated by red shite infiltrators that will nod their heads to the new owner's posts. Best wishes, Michael, but I won't be inclined to visit this site again.

Nevertheless the changes made on here are now laughable. You've got different fonts and texts and speech marks on each comment... What's that all about?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Going down with the Wolves TW.

Strange thing is, you can get to the old ToffeeWeb Homepage if go to the News Archive and then click on the third button 'News' near the top. This is probably a glitch but may be preferable to link to in place of the new Homepage!

We will see but I think probably I will choose to avert my eyes from the gambling ads and go to the articles and reader comments that I am really interested in. When I think about it, that is what I do every day in a world where we are increasingly offered content and “services” which would have caused outrage when I was a kid growing up in the 60s.

But thanks for the heads-up on the Edit button -- it's on the list!

And the 'Flag this comment' obscures is over the first line of each post.

Checked out the site on my laptop and it looks good, the blue square is a rectangle so looks better. I guess on a 'phone it's squished inwards to fit the narrower screen so I'll just have to live with it and learn to love it. At least it's blue.

It occurred to me today that if you have inevitable teething-problems and big loud hiccups on a site like this one, then it's smart to plan them for an international break.

I tried the 'Contact Us' route to request deletion, but got an error message from the website.

Surely it's our legal right to have our private data removed, especially considering ToffeeWeb is now a business?

Michael, could you please delete my account and provide confirmation? I no longer want to be associated with this site. Shame to see it go.

Too late? Dammmit.

And Napoleoin, they are rightfully concerned about negative fallout so it isn't that surprising. There should be a process on the profile link if it works.

@MK, best of luck for the future, but can this please be actioned. If it's not possible to do so then please let me know.

Can anybody provide me with an update?

Should be sorted now. Sorry to see you go. Ditto Ernie.

The website has changed a little bit with the new Homepage and redesigned fonts and formats... but underneath, it's still pretty much the same. Oh, and you might see some new gambling links further down the page.

We aim to crack through the clickbait and track daily news and articles that we think may be of interest to Evertonians who want to stay current with what's happening at the club.

We will still provide our matchday coverage and hopefully, if we can get one of the last glitches sorted from the switchover, the Live Forum should be back up and running for the next Everton game a week on Monday.

Cheers!

As a certain Charlton Heston once cried, whilst playing Taylor at the end of Planet of the Apes.

"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! God damn you all to hell!".

He delivers this line after discovering that the planet is actually his beloved Earth, now changed forever.

Not sure the option to delete your account is working yet but this might work.

Select News from the menu banner at the top of the page. A drop down box will open. Select News Archives.

This will take you to a new page with three further options shown on a white banner. Select News.

This will take you to the home page but in the pre-gambling style.

There is a Profile option at the top right of this page which should take you to your profile page. At the bottom of left of this page there is the option to Remove My Account.

I haven't clicked on it as I'm not looking to delete my account but it may be worth a try.

All the best.

No thanks, Friedkin Inc. I'm not really interested in the new Friedkinstein website.

Thanks to all on the editorial team in the past. Michael Kenrick is the only name I know from before the infiltration and corporate America takeover, so thanks, Michael.

ToffeeWeb is now up the revenue stream without a paddle. That's the way of things, I suppose, but I don't want to be part of a gaming site dressed up as a fan forum. I never contributed anything useful anyway but I enjoyed those who did.

Good luck with the revenue stream.

Are your facts really that fuzzy or are you just taking the piss?

Friedkin and Everton have absolutely nothing to do with ToffeeWeb. Neither does corporate America.

TW's new owner is MoveUp Media, based in Paris. It is totally unconnected to the club or its ownership.

As for the gambling links -- it's purely for profit isn't it? Nothing else.

As an ex-professional gambler (now retired from the game), I have to say I'm not impressed either. Aren't the powers that be trying to remove gambling from sponsorship and moving away from it?

It's bad enough we have 'Stake' as our shirt sponsors. I think it's pretty clear this has been a major own-goal by the new site owners that has and will continue to alienate users.

As a workaround, if you bookmark this page, it shows the old site: https://www.ToffeeWeb.com/season//news/

How long that'll work for I don't know but I would suggest there are ways to avoid all the gambling nonsense, and that would be to only ever visit the link I posted which takes you direct to the fan articles. And let's face it, most of us are only ever interested in those anyway.

You can also bookmark this page which will show you articles only: https://www.ToffeeWeb.com/season/25-26/comment/editorial/

There's more than one way to skin a cat so just use the 'News' and 'Opinion' pages to subvert the gambling links and TW is pretty much the same as it used to be.

Some excellent points there. The huge quotation marks around each comment are just plain daft. I shall bring this up with the design experts who presumably thought otherwise...

To be fair to Moveup Media, I believe the vote by Premier League clubs only applies to halting gambling entities from being the main sponsor emblazoned across the front of the shirt. Their logos will still be allowed on shirt sleeves, etc.

And as long as gambling is still legal and taxable... I'm not fully convinced by all the moralising on here. Is it true what Mark Taylor says @88 that the "data suggests that something like 98%- 99.4% of gamblers are not addicts"?

Yea, addiction is a terrible thing... but so is the nanny state pandering after and trying to compensate for the imperfections (can't say abnormalities!) of some group or other -- when we are all imperfect to some degree, and most of us have to just buck up and get on with it.

I must say I felt seriously affronted whilst trying to watch the egg-chasers yesterday that CASTLE BINGO was blasted at me in huge electronic lettering whenever there was a view showing the stands... what is that all about? Horrible. I shall never watch Rugby ever again!!!

The adverts for the gambling don’t really bother me, but the tone of the website has definitely changed for the worse, and people aren’t really trying to positively engage as much as they used to do, (again imo) because there does seem to be a lot more people, waiting to jump on a fellow poster, because of little spats they might have had in the past.

That’s how I currently see it anyway. A place that used to enlighten me has become a place with too many petty arguments, (and not many respectful counter arguments) but I suppose it’s just the way modern life has become?

I think England, are going to have a very good World Cup, (just a hunch) and was wondering if there are ways to get better odds, by putting on a bet in another part of the world, where maybe they are not so fancied?

If the DA on your post is me attacking Darren ( Hind ? ) then I think you might be mistaken.

I had plenty of debates with Darren but we were always civil with each other whether we agreed or not. Who is KK by the way?

Think it's Kieran Kinsella. Don't believe DA is you but can't for the life of me think of another name that fits.

Davide Ancelotti?

I don’t suppose anyone’s interested but I have applauded Darren Hind on TW more than a few times on the occasions he’s discussed the club, largely because we both have similar opinions on how its been run.

So there! :)

Another reason is this place supports Ireland who kick off in an hour or so.

That's what I was trying to ask James anyway!

See you later, Michael, I’ve really enjoyed being on this wonderful website over the years, mate, and also best wishes to everyone who has stayed loyal or decided to call it a day.

A change is as good as a rest, they say, so I’m going to change my habits and give myself a little rest away from a website that I personally think has made way too much changes.

Up The Toffees, let’s just hope things start improving on the pitch, and it puts us all in a better mood and also a better frame of mind.

Disclosure of all the aliases used by current posters.

People registering but not using their real names? I think we all know what your alias is, though.

Happy for you to step forward from the shadows, if you like.

It's wall to wall betting adverts. What a fall from grace this once brilliant fan run site has had.

Totally agree, far too much betting shit on the page now. Not a good move, ToffeeWeb!

And still the site is not working properly. Just select Thierno Barry on player profiles. I bet there are more.

Errors are expected. But they were fixed much, much faster in the past.

Very sad to see such a long-standing excellent site.

Except Michael didn't leave... awkward?

Probably just moi!

The new owners have changed a lot all at once onto a new platform (whatever that means) so they're playing wack-a-mole.

Previously it was just Lyndon doing his coding to cause and fix errors. This is a company and they’re doing a much poorer job.

Still with glitches.

The fucking edit. button don't work.

WE KNOW.

YAWN.

Eric, you sound like the local governor who formed home watches in the 1990s, with weekly meetings. Patrol B can you clarify your present location.

ALARM SOUNDING AT NUMBER 56 PEDANT STREET,

I will miss the banter from the usual suspects but I'm off, lads... cheerio, ta-ra, auf wiedersehen, ciao, au revoir, arrivederci, adios etc

Agreed, the dark blue numbers and apostrophes are very distracting.

What idiots are running this asylum?

COYB.

May as well rename this site ToffeeBet.

Too good. I'm going to have to delete it before the new management get any funny ideas!

What the fuck has happened to it?

This whole place is just a front for hawking betting sites now, disgusting stuff.

Such a massive shame, this used to be the greatest fan site, and was genuinely filled with insightful and well-written articles.

Trust me, if it's this bad now, we are not far from AI slop written articles and even more betting ads (if it's possible to cram any more in than there already are). For shame.

Considering he is on his own in the "available never going to get on as long as he's got a hole in his arse" section!

Can anyone please recommend a reasonably good alternative site, where threads are easy to find and follow?

Please!!

By the way, is management engaging in any of that?

What is it that you are looking for? I've discovered that, if you open the page in full on a big screen, you get a bigger menu with lots more drop-down options for everything that used to be here on the old site.

No shit. There's six sections on betting on the home page. All large and colorful. In between smaller links to articles and the “comments” section a small heading on a dull grey background.

I can only assume that the business that is ToffeeWeb is being handsomely remunerated by said betting companies. Did they not read the negative feedback every time a new betting sponsor was named?

I'm just grateful that MK has stuck around because his pieces and comments do lift the mess out of the depths to which the site has sunk. I barely find myself visiting more than once or twice a week these days. It used to be once or twice a day.