ToffeeWeb - Season 2008-09

The Mail Bag

The Big Four

Chelsea? Yeah right. When you have won as many titles as us, you can call yourselves a big club. 3 titles, 2 of which were purchased, against our 9 earned.

No, the big four means this:

Liverpool away
Liverpool away (FA cup)
Arsenal home
Man Utd away

Four massive games for us over the next few weeks. Big Fella is up for a 2-game ban ? thanks to vigilant refs for that, shame about the 9 cert pens Keith Hackett admitted we were robbed of last year? but hey, who?s counting?. So what are our predictions for this big 4 game sequence? I?m no doomsday merchant, but I fear old Moysie will end up with played 4 lost 4. However, this is an ideal opportunity for all the apologists and all the Moyes slaters to get it on the record (not again, but in reference to the next 4 games).

This is the big acid test: 4 games. Moyes is now nearly 7 years into his job ? is it not fair to gauge some opinion on his ?current? ability, by using these next 4 games? If not these 4 games, when can we judge the school of 2008-09, delivered and managed by Moyes?

I?m putting green where hot air normally ejects from, and backing us to draw with Liverpool on both occasions (and knock 'em out in the replay at GP), beat Arsenal at home, and to heck with the trip to Old Trafford. At that point I?d be happy. I just fear a reality check. COYB!
Joeynkoo Ludden, Redditch Posted 04/01/2009 at 16:48:35

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Peter Pridgeon
1 Posted 05/01/2009 at 01:12:06

What if the unlikely happens and we win all four? Moyes's record against these clubs and his FA Cup record are nothing short of disgraceful; however, stranger things have happened.

I am normally ?a cup is half-full? person but I am going for LLDL... but who can tell.

It would even have people talking about our Premier League title chances...

Charlie Peredur
2 Posted 05/01/2009 at 02:15:00

Ok ........ I want to win all 4.

Moyes said yesterday the League is most important... but I hope he's just playing the cameras.........

Oh my god I feel like I'm a kid waiting for next Christmas cos the last one's just been!!! It's only 2.5 weeks away but feels like forever.

I would be happy beating Liverpool twice and losing the other 2 as a worst case scenario. But I feel this is what will happen:
Anfield (league), 0-0;
Anfield (cup), 1-1
Goodison (Arsenal), 1-0 (we do well against the gunners at Goodison)
Old Trafford... (Pray!)

Anthony Dyer
3 Posted 05/01/2009 at 02:37:40

As I said on another thread, it's not just DM who?s record is abysmal in these games against our major rivals. Since the other lot came up (nearly 50 years ago) we have won a total of 7 games at their place SEVEN times in FORTY-NINE attempts!

Old Trafford is only slightly better where we have won 11 times in over 50 attempts. Considering that the period includes some of our finest teams, it is a sobering thought.... sorry for the reality check but it just shows why we are not the jolly happy fans our rivals would wish us to be.

Paul Smith
4 Posted 05/01/2009 at 07:57:26

I hope that the cup game will see a different side to the team.

The league is the most important thing at the moment and I would be happy with a point on Monday. That said, DM needs some silverwear to prove he is the top manager that I think he is/can be.

It will be interesting to see if we can go into the Cup derby with no fear; get the ball on the deck and have a right go at them over there - if we do I think we are more than capable of beating them. This might then prove (to us supporters and DM!) that we can take on the ’bigger’ teams on more of a level playing field than we currently believe.

With nothing to lose it has to be the way. COYB!!

Jason Lam
5 Posted 05/01/2009 at 08:43:46

Arsenal are there for the taking but a lot with depend on Arteta, especially which side he’s playing for.

Iain Love
6 Posted 05/01/2009 at 09:43:22

I truly believe if we play 4-6-0, as we have recently, we can get a D-W-W-D from this sequence.

Gavin Alexander
7 Posted 05/01/2009 at 10:21:33

I honestly believe that we will draw the league game at Anfield 0-0, probably lose the cup game 2-0, beat Arsenal 2-1 and if we get the stonewall penalty decision go our way against Man Utd then I think we could draw... possibly 1-1.

I can hear someone shouting in the background "Do you want sugar with my cornflakes when you wake up?"

Just my opinion!!!!!

Simon Jones
8 Posted 05/01/2009 at 10:28:28

I?m no football statto, but I would hazard a guess that there aren?t too many teams with a good record playing at the dark side over the last 50 years.

As far as not giving Chelsea credence as a "Big Four" side, well the modern game bears no relation to the old fashioned game that many of us hark back to. Football has been changed by money, if I ploughed a billion pounds into Northwich Victoria over a period of 10 years then I bet they would become a "Big Four" side (hopefully at the expense of the RS).

Wali Tomos
9 Posted 05/01/2009 at 11:15:40

Sorry to interrupt your dreaming boys but we do have a game on Saturday against Hull!! Get behind the team for that one and try to get 3 points then carry on dreaming.

Anthony Millington
10 Posted 05/01/2009 at 11:35:12

Hull is still a very important game, because we need to put ourselves in the best possible position going into the tough games coming up by giving us some breathing space between ourselves and the teams below us.

Dick Fearon
11 Posted 05/01/2009 at 10:45:59

Can?t understand the pessimism among you lot. Hibbo, Jags, Joleon, Yobo, Baines, Pip, Peanuts, Fellaini (if he is not suspended) and Tiny will be giving their all. Strikers or not we are good enough to rattle their cage.

My concerns lie with Arteta and Osman. We cannot afford them to have another of their abysmal derby game displays. At the earliest sign they are not doing the business they should be substituted.

My other concern is Moyes's reluctance to make much needed changes and then only after we go behind. Should those few concerns be taken care of I am confident we will give as good as we get.
Meanwhile we can expect a barrage of mind games from Benitez, Ferguson and Wenger.

Erik Dols
12 Posted 05/01/2009 at 12:25:20

I have to be honest and fear we will lose twice to the RS. I really hope it doesn?t happen. If I had to choose, I?d rather win in the league because I don?t want them to become champions.

The games against Arsenal and Man U are a different cup of tea. Arsenal are shaky and out of form. In our current form we should be able to beat them. I honestly believe that.
Man U are far from sharp in front of the goal. I can see us pick up a draw there.

I would be surprised if we lost all four games.

Tony Williams
13 Posted 05/01/2009 at 13:18:55

I am an optimist but still feel we will at best probably end up with a point and an ended cup run from that sequence. Hope I am wrong.

In regards to the first poster, I am confused with the "This is the big acid test: 4 games. Moyes is now nearly 7 years into his job ? is it not fair to gauge some opinion on his ?current? ability, by using these next 4 games? If not these 4 games, when can we judge the school of 2008-09, delivered and managed by Moyes" point.

What are you trying to say?, Moyes can?t be judged by the good mini run we have just had but has to be judged after playing the best teams in England at the moment? A bit selective that isn?t it? I would choose to judge the 2008-09 team when the season is over and all the facts are in. A bit more sensible that way really.

James Marshall
14 Posted 05/01/2009 at 13:59:45

I reckon we?ll lose the league game to the RS, and our best hope on the cup is a draw over there, get them back to Goodison and beat 'em at home.

Mind you, our record at home.....

Dave Richman
15 Posted 05/01/2009 at 14:19:49

Agree with most of what Dick Fearon said above.

It doesn’t matter how badly an individual is playing, or how much we have lost the initiative in a game.... and let’s face it we can ALL see it when it happens, Moyes will absolutely not make a substitution before the 75 minute mark, unless we either go behind or a player is obviously injured.

Remember how badly Beattie was stinking the gaff out a couple of years back? It was only once it became totally ridiculous that Moyes took him off!!! So for Moyes to substitute Arteta coz he’s playing badly just ain’t gonna happen.

I absolutely detest the games against the spawn of satan. We never ever get a break (remember the Pat Nevin penalty in ’91? THE most cast iron penalty ever!!!!!), and what’s the bets on Old Mother Riley taking one of the four games at the very minimum? He was a fucking disgrace again yesterday!

Terry Downes
16 Posted 05/01/2009 at 16:04:56

I think it could be best to have Fellaini on the bench against Hull... we should still have enough to beat them? I would hate to think he would miss both derby matches.

Joe McMahon
17 Posted 05/01/2009 at 16:14:52

Dave Richman - I do remember the Pat Nevin penalty that never was, still see his astonished face now. As cast iron as it was, I don?t think it was as bad as the assault on Lescott in the last minute that Clattenburg denied us. I have never EVER known a team (not even Man U) get as many decisions their way as LFC. How many Champ League matches have been won with the 2nd leg at Anfield and the Refs just masterbate for The Kop.

Peter Howard
18 Posted 05/01/2009 at 17:15:37

Joe
It?s "masturbate" ? trust me.

Alan Clarke
19 Posted 05/01/2009 at 17:35:44

It?s not these 4 games that matter, it?s just the one ? the cup game away at Anfield. You?re right Joenkyoo, Moyes has been here 7 years and it?s about time he started showing us some ambition to actually win something. I hope we win all 4 but if we lose the other 3 but beat them shitehawks in the cup I?ll be happy.

Karl Masters
20 Posted 05/01/2009 at 18:02:24

All that matters now is Saturday’s game against Hull.

One game at a time boys, although it’s hard not to look to later in the month. We need some reinforcements don’t we? It could be Jutkiewicz leading the line soon with Cahill in midfield and Neville in central defence.....

Andy Crooks
21 Posted 05/01/2009 at 18:39:45

Joeynkoo, you are absolutely right. Chelsea?s titles are tainted and and all the money in the world will never make them a big club.
Class, history, a link with your community, supporters who spend way beyond their means to follow the club (I am one), tradition, spirit and having proper Evertonians in the squad, that?s what makes a big club. I?d rather never win the league than buy it with mercenaries.

Derek Thomas
22 Posted 05/01/2009 at 19:43:01

Even with the recent form we have had, I am still an agnostic Re The Moyesiah; my swing-o-meter is right in the middle.

The thing that tends to pull it in to the Aethist section is not so much the number of loses, but the way he / we almost always seemed to revert back to the ?Not playing to win, playing not to lose or maybe keep it tight and pinch one? mentality.

Yes, I know ? It?s all about the result? and that, supposedly ?playing bad and getting a result is the new good? and the injury crisis, etc etc etc.

So we have to play the new 4-6-0 system and by all means stick with it as it seems to work (like we have a choice).

But play 4-6-0 get in their faces..... not 4-6-0 frightened to death.

You never know, I might turn into a definite maybe in the Moyesiah stakes.

Jimmy Byrne
23 Posted 05/01/2009 at 20:35:14

I have been a blue for over 50 years and I have come to realise football as we knew it when the Blues where in thier prime is long gone. Chelsea's success will always be tainted as they have bought their success. Moyes has done a great job to get us where we are with no money in a climate of greedy players and worse shonky agents (Stretford for one ). Personally I would rather ride the emotional roller coaster that being a Blue brings than sell our soul to some rich Arab or Russian. If we were in the Conference, I will remain a Blue 'til I die and fuck the sky four. Let's give them a shake up and continue to prove that money cannot buy the solidarity and passion we have for the People's Club! COYB

Alan Kirwin
24 Posted 05/01/2009 at 21:08:07

Don’t give too much of a Jonathan Ross about the cup game. Probably will on the day, but in reality I want to win the league games.

With Arsenal’s inconsistency & infighting, and Villa’s good fortune (which must run our eventually), not to mention our purple patch of form & results, the 4th place is there for grabs.

Oh yeah, and you missed out another rather important game, possibly THE most important of all, Villa (a). A draw would be grudgingly accepted, but after their smash & grab raid at Goodison, I hope Moyes tells the boys to go for it.

adam wightman
25 Posted 05/01/2009 at 23:30:23

I am sure you are all aware of this but we have now gone 5 games without conceeding a single goal. (Man City, Chelsea, Boro, Sunderland Macclesfield) It is what Moyes is very good at and will be the backbone of any success we have in the mentioned games. Cahill closes down quickly and chases every ball (similar to what AJ did last season), which inturn puts the opposition under presure and results in more set pieces which Everton thrive on. Lets hope we can do this in the next few games starting with a good result against Hull and keep our unbeaten run going. We owe the RS one so lets hope we can turn them over. COYB

Peter Hall
26 Posted 06/01/2009 at 21:47:18

Personally I think the fixtures after the Hull match make the Hull match the big one.

Win it and we will come out of the next 3 league matches without being overtaken, whatever the results, and we will be free to go for it and express ourselves.

Lose it and we will get nervous, put up the shutters and hope for a couple of draws and probably get nothing ? and be level with Wigan and Fulham if they get a few points.

Yes, the Hull match is the big one for me.