The Mail Bag
Dead parrott by any other name
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Given all the parameters, it just is not going to happen. The whole idea is unravelling in a Knowsley council building, with a once proud club being made to look, frankly, a bit ridiculous.
To do all of this for just £6m a year? I can't get my head around that. Even if we fill it with 50,000 every game we get just £6m a year extra?
I don't blame Kenwright for this. OK, the Kings Dock pissed us all off in excelsis, as that would have been the jewel. But we didn't have the money then and we don't now. And worse, there is little or no chance of anyone injecting that money into Everton in the foreseeable future.
It's deeply depressing. My own great wish, for a Merseyside stadium of stunning architecture & proportions, won't get off the ground mainly, it has to be said, because of THEIR arrogance. Seems that grants & goodwill are much more available for that idea than for 2 individual so-so stadiums. And rightly so.
Ths is all deeply depressing. I mean, it goes way back to the Agent Johnson days and still nothing. It's now a decade since we starting talking & planning this. I just can;t believe there isn't a) a good brownfield site in/near the docks, or elsewhere,to build a joint stadium, and b) a coming together of minds to comprehend the incredible benefits that a Merseyside stadium would bring.
It's tragic. Meanwhile, in an ugly building in Knowsley, Wyness' plans appear to be dissolving into thin air and EFC is looking desperate.
What now?
Alan Kirwin, Posted 21/01/2009 at 07:16:56
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Alan,
I think it?s about time you looked at Kenwright?s involvement in this entire scandal.
I know you have a soft spot for him ? but the buck stops at the top... This is not Wyness?s plan ? this is Kenwright's plan....and it?s the most divisive, misrepresented and frankly appalling issue in the modern history of this club... and still he persists with it.
I lost any faith I had in this so-called blue, a hell of a long time ago. I fail to understand why intelligent people still hold him in any sort of esteem.
I think it?s about time you looked at Kenwright?s involvement in this entire scandal.
I know you have a soft spot for him ? but the buck stops at the top... This is not Wyness?s plan ? this is Kenwright's plan....and it?s the most divisive, misrepresented and frankly appalling issue in the modern history of this club... and still he persists with it.
I lost any faith I had in this so-called blue, a hell of a long time ago. I fail to understand why intelligent people still hold him in any sort of esteem.
"There is little or no chance of anyone injecting that money into Everton in the foreseeable future" ? you may be right, but I did wonder what you based that assumption on. For all any of us know, there may be a number of interested parties awaiting the outcome of the inquiry with a view to offering Kenwright an alternative deal if Kirkby falls through.
Where did that one come from Alan? Is this because of Bellefield?
Whether you are for or against DK from Everton?s standpoint, I would be very surprised if in the current economic disaster (unemployment rising, banks not lending etc.) the Government decided to turn down a huge construction and retail project injecting a few £100M into the economy.
Tescos are literally about the only company left in the country with any major cash to spend. They are much stronger than any of our banks. Do you really think anything the LCC can do (and, boy, are they trying everything!) will persuade Gordon and his mates to forego this windfall?
Of course, that is not to say that we are going to be able to find our £78M in the current environment.
Whether you are for or against DK from Everton?s standpoint, I would be very surprised if in the current economic disaster (unemployment rising, banks not lending etc.) the Government decided to turn down a huge construction and retail project injecting a few £100M into the economy.
Tescos are literally about the only company left in the country with any major cash to spend. They are much stronger than any of our banks. Do you really think anything the LCC can do (and, boy, are they trying everything!) will persuade Gordon and his mates to forego this windfall?
Of course, that is not to say that we are going to be able to find our £78M in the current environment.
Ciaran: This is not Kenwright’s plan. He may be the current custodian, and he may be persuaded that this is his only chance to do ANYTHING on the stadium front, but his support for the scheme reflects the harsh reality of our situation. To characterise it as "his scheme" is wide of the mark.
And anyway Ciaran, as you will deduce from my post, this whole thing just looks more & more pointless. And that’s before we take the global meltdown of capital flow. Tesco might keep the flag flying because they are the real winners. But really, whichever side of the fence you are on, is it worth it for £6m (max!) per year? No, of course not.
It pains me to say it, after 10 years of false dawns for a new Everton stadium, but I think Elstone could do himself, the club and everyone a whole lot of good if he just blew it out of the water now, before it gets ridiculous.
Neil:
I see your point mate, but I’m now just looking at the simple financial reality. All this upheaval for a measly £6m a year (if we fill it every week). It all sounds such a nonsense that I’ve really had enough. Sure, I’d go to Kirkby, I know some wouldn’t. But I chose the headline of this post deliberately and not just because of my love for Monty Python. A dead parrot is a dead parrot and it sounds like we should stop kidding ourselves.
Frankly Neil, it just looks very boring now. We could get £6m a year by coming 3rd rather than 6th. We could get £10m by qualifying for the group stages of the Champions League. Or best part of £5m by going far in the UEFA cup.
Yes, we desperately need something better. Goodison is utterly shite, despite my 40 years of memories that started with a 7-1 win over Leicester with my dad. Looks like no chance of me getting my wish (joint stadium) and that makes me feel sad. What a monument that would be to one of the sporting & cultural capitals of the world. Just another missed opportunity, amongst many.
Anyway, here’s to a win on Saturday. Haven’t been to Wembley since ’95 and I fancy a return.
And anyway Ciaran, as you will deduce from my post, this whole thing just looks more & more pointless. And that’s before we take the global meltdown of capital flow. Tesco might keep the flag flying because they are the real winners. But really, whichever side of the fence you are on, is it worth it for £6m (max!) per year? No, of course not.
It pains me to say it, after 10 years of false dawns for a new Everton stadium, but I think Elstone could do himself, the club and everyone a whole lot of good if he just blew it out of the water now, before it gets ridiculous.
Neil:
I see your point mate, but I’m now just looking at the simple financial reality. All this upheaval for a measly £6m a year (if we fill it every week). It all sounds such a nonsense that I’ve really had enough. Sure, I’d go to Kirkby, I know some wouldn’t. But I chose the headline of this post deliberately and not just because of my love for Monty Python. A dead parrot is a dead parrot and it sounds like we should stop kidding ourselves.
Frankly Neil, it just looks very boring now. We could get £6m a year by coming 3rd rather than 6th. We could get £10m by qualifying for the group stages of the Champions League. Or best part of £5m by going far in the UEFA cup.
Yes, we desperately need something better. Goodison is utterly shite, despite my 40 years of memories that started with a 7-1 win over Leicester with my dad. Looks like no chance of me getting my wish (joint stadium) and that makes me feel sad. What a monument that would be to one of the sporting & cultural capitals of the world. Just another missed opportunity, amongst many.
Anyway, here’s to a win on Saturday. Haven’t been to Wembley since ’95 and I fancy a return.
Dennis:
I base my view on the current facts of global financial life. I assume it hasn’t escaped your notice that the flow of capital has almost dried up everywhere in the world. Newcastle (a far more attractive commercial proposition than Everton, with a new stadium, 52,000 every game, no local competition etc etc) have just been withdrawn from the market by Ashley because, erm, there are no buyers out there.
No offence Dennis, but have you turned on the telly, radio or computer in the last 6 months?
"For all any of us know, there may be a number of interested parties awaiting the outcome of the inquiry with a view to offering Kenwright an alternative deal if Kirkby falls through."
Dennis, get a grip mate.
I base my view on the current facts of global financial life. I assume it hasn’t escaped your notice that the flow of capital has almost dried up everywhere in the world. Newcastle (a far more attractive commercial proposition than Everton, with a new stadium, 52,000 every game, no local competition etc etc) have just been withdrawn from the market by Ashley because, erm, there are no buyers out there.
No offence Dennis, but have you turned on the telly, radio or computer in the last 6 months?
"For all any of us know, there may be a number of interested parties awaiting the outcome of the inquiry with a view to offering Kenwright an alternative deal if Kirkby falls through."
Dennis, get a grip mate.
Neil
The day Kirkby was called in, you were making hysterical accusations against many people on these very pages - feel free to take a look
Despite knowing that many very loyal supporters on the Wirral have no guarentees of even being able to get home after an evening match, You were happy to drive on and bang the drum for DK.
Ive asked you twice if you would purchase a season ticket for Kirkby - you havent responded - despite constantly telling regular match going Evertonians that DK is in their best interest
On a day when another massive blow has been dealt to this idiotic plan and more people are coming on in several threads declaring a change of heart.
The day Kirkby was called in, you were making hysterical accusations against many people on these very pages - feel free to take a look
Despite knowing that many very loyal supporters on the Wirral have no guarentees of even being able to get home after an evening match, You were happy to drive on and bang the drum for DK.
Ive asked you twice if you would purchase a season ticket for Kirkby - you havent responded - despite constantly telling regular match going Evertonians that DK is in their best interest
On a day when another massive blow has been dealt to this idiotic plan and more people are coming on in several threads declaring a change of heart.
You, after constantly declaring this is the ONLY deliverable option now come on and say you dont know if the money can be found... and therefore may not be deliverable.
Alan Kirwin
So if its not worth the heartache for 6 million - provided the impossible happens and it filled every week
At what stage was it worth the deep rooted divisions this idiotic project has caused ?
What was the figure, that made you think that dragging our great club out of our city to some poxy retail park acceptable ? and where did you get this figure from ?
So if its not worth the heartache for 6 million - provided the impossible happens and it filled every week
At what stage was it worth the deep rooted divisions this idiotic project has caused ?
What was the figure, that made you think that dragging our great club out of our city to some poxy retail park acceptable ? and where did you get this figure from ?
We really should just do a ground share.....cue the abuse.
Economicaly, environmentaly it makes sense, as I read on the Guardian the allianz Arena in Munich works well there.
We and the the Red shite need to get a grip and realise its the best option
Economicaly, environmentaly it makes sense, as I read on the Guardian the allianz Arena in Munich works well there.
We and the the Red shite need to get a grip and realise its the best option
Dave, I’ve over and over again said that Everton are in a very poor financial state - that’s why we can’t afford anything grand in the city that we would all like. So it’s pretty consistent that I now think that, with the credit crunch and the worst economic collapse in our lifetimes, we may not be able to rustle up the necessary money even for Kirkby.
If Bellefield is a "massive blow" to Kirkby, then obviously it is a massive blow to EVERY plan we might have to generate more revenue. It simply means we have less money to do anything at all in a very bad economic downturn. Given how relatively cheap Kirkby is compared to any other realistic option, it may just be the only thing we can afford. All I am saying is that there is reason to doubt even that now.
By the way, as always I remain with Alan of the view that the only sane option, and far and away my most preferred, is groundsharing on Stanley Park. As the economic crisis worsens, the arguments in favour of sharing become ever more compelling, certainly in financial terms. I simply do not believe now that two brand new stadiums will be built on Merseyside in the next few years. Maybe not even one.
On the season ticket issue, I would very happily buy one for Goodison, Kirkby or Stanley Park (or pretty much anywhere else), if my personal and work situation living down in London allowed me to get to enough games. When I was able to get to more games a few years ago, I had a season and went to most away games from London. So getting to Kirkby doesn’t deter me that much.
If Bellefield is a "massive blow" to Kirkby, then obviously it is a massive blow to EVERY plan we might have to generate more revenue. It simply means we have less money to do anything at all in a very bad economic downturn. Given how relatively cheap Kirkby is compared to any other realistic option, it may just be the only thing we can afford. All I am saying is that there is reason to doubt even that now.
By the way, as always I remain with Alan of the view that the only sane option, and far and away my most preferred, is groundsharing on Stanley Park. As the economic crisis worsens, the arguments in favour of sharing become ever more compelling, certainly in financial terms. I simply do not believe now that two brand new stadiums will be built on Merseyside in the next few years. Maybe not even one.
On the season ticket issue, I would very happily buy one for Goodison, Kirkby or Stanley Park (or pretty much anywhere else), if my personal and work situation living down in London allowed me to get to enough games. When I was able to get to more games a few years ago, I had a season and went to most away games from London. So getting to Kirkby doesn’t deter me that much.
Neil, in other words NO.
A bog standard stadium costing £78milliion is a bog standard stadium wherever it may be Neil and it still costs the same.
I agree with you Rich. The question is now whether, given the current economic crisis, we can afford even a new bog standard stadium. For sure we can’t afford anything else.
Unbelievable! I cant believe that Mr Kirkby-at-all-costs himself, who has argued and argued relentlessly for the Disaster Knowsley project, and campaigned against the ?dogshit?, ?crap views? and ?shithole? that is our beloved Walton home...
Now he admits that not only does he not often go to games... he also wouldn't go to his Mecca in the clean fields of Kirkby!!!!
Unbelievable!
Neil ? it begs the question why have you made a point of being so arsed for the past 2 years of this argument? Why do you care where we play when you're watching on the box? Also ? do you agree your latest post brings about THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR DK?
Then again what happened to Madden? Did he lodge a marsbar up his arse?
Oh Yeah - looking forward to Sunday - COYFBB!!!
Now he admits that not only does he not often go to games... he also wouldn't go to his Mecca in the clean fields of Kirkby!!!!
Unbelievable!
Neil ? it begs the question why have you made a point of being so arsed for the past 2 years of this argument? Why do you care where we play when you're watching on the box? Also ? do you agree your latest post brings about THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR DK?
Then again what happened to Madden? Did he lodge a marsbar up his arse?
Oh Yeah - looking forward to Sunday - COYFBB!!!
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1 Posted 21/01/2009 at 10:20:30
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I am an ex-Everton season ticket holder. I was allowed to vote in the Kirkby ballot as I was a Evertionia member the season before the vote, of course I voted NO.
The reason I joined Evertonia that year was so that I could get a ticket for the derby at Goodison that year. I hadn't been to any previous games that season and joined Evertonia about 4 weeks before the match. If it was that easy for me to get derby ticket having been to no previous games that season, it would be just as easy for a disgusting kopite to get hold of one the same way. There are always plenty of disgusting kopites dotted around Goodison Park on derby day. I wonder how many of them joined Evertonia to get hold of their ticket?
If any kopites had worked out how easy it was to get a ticket that year, they will have also been sent a ballot paper to vote on the Kirkby move, that makes me feel sick. I wonder how many Liverpool fans voted in the Kirkby ballot?