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As I have said before, Osman never has a good game against Liverpool. He was my main concern before Monday?s game and sadly my fears were justified.

Except for a piss weak shot at goal, he played almost no part in an otherwise brilliant team effort. Now and again I saw him doing bugger all on our right midfield and I assume that was his designated position. This made Hibbert?s fine performance all the more commendable as he had to do Osman?s job as well as his own.

One of our youngsters or Castillo, if fit, could not do worse in that role. Leon could be saved for the second half when the tempo of the game has slowed to nearer his pace.
Dick Fearon, West Australia     Posted 21/01/2009 at 10:22:52

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Gary Creaney
1   Posted 21/01/2009 at 15:47:12

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Harsh on the lad i have to say.
One of the stand out individual performances for me last season was Ossie against Fiorentina at Goodison.

Sure he’s small and built like a whippet but my word does he make up for with his lion heart.

I fully understand his faults as a player and if we had a fully fit squad I don’t think I’d play him in my ideal first XI but he’s been a great servant over the years and has popped up with plenty of goals and important ones at that.
Ian Kearney
2   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:04:51

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I feel the rotund waiter will drop Keane and bring in Mascherano on sunday, meaning possibly a tougher battle in midfield. Ithink we could better combat this with the pace and greater energy of Gosling instead of Osman, wont happen though.
Sean Joyce
3   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:04:55

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Football is all about opinions. I was at the game on Monday and I though that both Leon and Peanut were very poor, given the way that both can perform. I would stick to the same team, and if either of them puts in a shift this game, we can at least get the same score, and with a little more luck the win. The only cloud for me on Sunday is that a Mr S Bennett is the referee!!
Paul Olsen
4   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:08:19

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Dunno why so many people bring up Castillo as a possible replacement for just about everyone.

I for one think he’s been a liability when he has played. Bad positioning, unable to win the ball + he almost only plays backwards/sideways when he has the ball.
Joe McMahon
5   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:09:28

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Dick- just before xmass, I mentioned Osman, nad how I just don’t think he’s premership standard. I got slated by fellows Evertonians. The abuse I was getting I thought would only been given out by the type of gobshites that follow Both Man U. and LFC.
Ciarán McGlone
6   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:30:24

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Joe,

We have our own brand of gobshite...and they certainly don’t like crticism of the club. Don’t let them stop you...

They rarely have a relevant counter argument.
Clyde McPhat
7   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:54:49

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I don?t think we have many options other than maybe swapping Hibbo (leaving him out)and Pip and then slotting Castillo in the middle, but I don?t think we will do that. Sunday, I would opt for the same 11 and then hope for the best. I think the RS will go with a tad weaker squad as they need to keep their title hopes alive, plus, they truly are not safe for CL yet either, with their propensity to tie.

I know some of you want the kids to play, but I don?t think it is practical.
Billy Dean
8   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:52:01

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I think, considering his limitations he didn’t have a bad game on Monday.

He at least managed to pass the ball to blue shirts, which is more than can be said of Hibbert.
Ped Pearl
9   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:50:11

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Osman is a player Moyes has faith in... perhaps his work rate - and tracking didn’t get him the attention from the fans but I think most blues rate him as a good squad player. I dont really think we have many other viable options at the moment. Moyes isn’t about to give VDM a go is he?
Peter Laing
10   Posted 21/01/2009 at 16:54:52

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Couldn't agree more with these comments, Dick. I also thought Osman was poor against the shite and feel that young Gosling, excuse the pun shouldn't have anything to fear in terms of the future. Although Pienaar created very little, he got stuck in and harassed as much as possible whereas Osman was always on the periphery. There was an occasion when he had to get his shot away much earlier but delayed. However, Osman gives his all for Everton, whilst he is selected and wearing the blue shirt he will always have my support.
Brian Richardson
11   Posted 21/01/2009 at 17:11:10

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Ciarán McGlone, what’s with all the super-aggressive posts of late?

You can’t just dismiss people as "gobshites" because they disagree with you. And as you well know, there are plenty of considered, reasoned and relevant counter arguments to the opinions you post.

For example, you slated Moyes for not making a substitution in the derby. Many people very reasonably pointed out that Everton remained strong in the second half and found an equaliser with the 11 men on the pitch. Many also pointed out that Pienaar is one of the most talented players in the team and was kept on the pitch because he, more than anyone on the bench, could be expected to produce something special. Many also pointed out that he is an exceptionally fit player and was unlikely to tire in the closing minutes of the match.

These are all resonable, relevant arguments. Don’t call people gobshites just because they happen to have a different opinion to you - especially when the opinion is quite valid.

In this particular example, my reasoned counter argument to Joe McMahon’s opinion that Leon Osman is "not up to premiership standard" is that he has been one of our top performers over the last 4 years. He has exceptionally quick feet, a great touch and a very natural sense of where he should be on the pitch at any given moment. He also scored 7 goals for us last season from midfield, which is a decent return for any midfielder. He is sometimes pushed off the ball too easily, but he’s a good footballer who has been instrumental in many of our most important results.
John Hughes
12   Posted 21/01/2009 at 17:39:15

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I think Sean Joyce makes the most salient point; football is indeed a matter of opinions. That?s what makes the game so interesting and that?s why it produces so much passion. Don?t kid yourself that your opinion is the only valid one and try and see other people's point of view. Certainly, don?t knock fellow blues for disagreeing with you. You never know, you might just change your mind on something every now and then!
Stefan Tosev
13   Posted 21/01/2009 at 17:30:28

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I think Osman has to be moved behind Cahill in the hole, he managed 2 decent shots on goal playing there, on both wings he is useless. He was moved from the right to the left but contributed nothing; only behind Cahill he has some value.

Brian Richardson,
most of the contributors ignore Ciaran and don?t respond to his obviously provocative posts, you will save yourself time and energy if you do the same ;-)
Ped Pearl
14   Posted 21/01/2009 at 18:05:36

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Stefan, I think Ossie started behind Cahill on Monday with Victor on the right - they swapped and changed a bit later pushing Victor up and Ossie moved over. He gave his all like all the lads - his experience counts too. I cant see Moyes changing anything. I would like to see some fresh legs in the second half though... but wont be holding my breath!
Dean Johnson
15   Posted 21/01/2009 at 18:08:57

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Leon Osman is one of the reasons why we are not conceding. His work rate is phenomenal and he has excellent close control.

Sure it pisses the hell out of me when he gets brushed off the ball so easily, but then he?ll run all the way back and win it back.

So I don?t care.... OSSIE OSSIE!!
Sean Patton
16   Posted 21/01/2009 at 18:18:15

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Joe

As you were knocking Osman before Christmas, you would not have failed to notice that without his brilliant intervention at Macclesfield we would not be in the position to play Liverpool on Sunday.

If he was to be dropped on Sunday then Gosling in on the right and Vic up front with Cahill behind him would be the best option.

I think Rodwell should be given a chance as we missed Fellaini?s composure on Monday night and Rodwell would slot into the centre seemlessly.
Tony Marsh
17   Posted 21/01/2009 at 18:49:36

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Dick don't bother mate. I was at Anfield on Monday night and all though we snatched a great draw at the death, we played with 10 men for 90 minutes .We always do when Osman plays in these type of games. Osman was awful all night and I can't believe he wasnt dragged off.

The laughable comment above regarding the Macclesfield game says it all really but that is Leon's true level. I agree he played well against Florentina but thats one game in a season and a half. Don't think for a minute the RS won't be better on Sunday across the midlde of the park... then what? More of Ossie going missing and leaving huge gaps to be exploited?

I know we are short on numbers but surely the time has come for a change. We didn't win on Monday, we drew, but we must win this tie either at Anfield or Goodison to keep our season alive. Anfield on Sunday will be no place for shirkers I can tell you.
Robbie Muldoon
18   Posted 21/01/2009 at 19:28:50

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I feel terrible thinking like this, but there is no chance of Moyes dropping the weak, ineffective Osman on Sunday... so I am holding out for the lad to get an injury and force a change on Moyes.

Gosling is the perfect replacement, he has strenght, build, and he isn’t scared to run at the players with the ball and he can also score (as he did when he replaced Osman against Sunderland).

It’s a shitty way of thinking but it would improve the midfield straight away.
Alan Kirwin
19   Posted 21/01/2009 at 19:30:26

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Ciaran:

Ease up mate. Sometimes it’s the levels & frequency of criticism. When that’s all one hears it eventually becomes just noise. Sure, shoot when necessary, but occasional credit where it’s due you miserable sod :-)

Sean:

Opinions... I thought Peanuts had a massive game. The little bugger was everywhere and ran his nuts off for the cause. Seemed to me he was almost back to what we know he can do, because he has been belwo par recently. Afraid have to disagree on that one.

As for Tony Marsh’s love child (Osman) I also think a little harsh. OK, he’s not kaka, but he punches above his weight more times than being muscled out. Always gives everything. Has a great touch and is a clever operator. If you put together a roll call of our best goals in the last 5 years I think you’d find plenty of entries from Leon Osman.

We don’t exactly have an abundance of options do we?
Paul Rimmer
20   Posted 21/01/2009 at 20:02:15

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Although Leon didn’t play particularly well against Liverpool I think his work-rate and ability to pass are essential for players going to Anfield. He’s also got a decent scoring record and there are few other options. Leon’s experience will also be useful compared to others. Until we get players back from injury Leon will be in the first 11 and I think he merits it based on performances this season.
Dave Wilson
21   Posted 21/01/2009 at 20:20:07

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So according to cluless Ciaran : Pienarr was/is shite.
According to some : Neville was/is shite.

According to Marshy and Dick : Osman was/is shite

And according to half of Evertonia : Vic was/is shite

so we only had 7 men ? . . . . unless of course anyone else spotted another passenger

Perhaps we should drop them all and throw 3-4 kids in with about 10 minutes experience between the lot of them,

Or better still lets play the Equadorian who was blowing out of his arse after 20 minutes at stoke. The pace of a derby match’ll be right up his street
Dick Fearon
22   Posted 21/01/2009 at 20:37:37

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I did not have a go at Osman’s tecnique nor his willingness or any other aspect of his game. Most times he gives all that he’s got and can be relied on to trouble defenders.
My only reservation about him is when we play a Sky 4 side and in particular the RS, against them he is definately a weak link.
Before next Sunday he is not about to grow an extra leg, put on a few stone or inches and though his enthusiasm is not questioned there will not be a quantum leap in his skill, shooting or tackling ability. In other words we can expect pretty much the same as in all his previous derby games.
I am merely suggesting that this Sunday he should used from the bench and not that his Everton career should come to a grinding halt.
If the lad does play he most certainly will be guaranteed of my unstinting support.
Joe McMahon
23   Posted 21/01/2009 at 21:06:22

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Guys I think the real problem with Osman is Kirkby, Moyes, Wyness & Kenwright, Per Koldrop and Peter Johnson.

Other than that, I think Leon is a clever footballer, just his slight frame means he is eeasily pushed off the ball, and he ain?t no Osvaldo Ardiles. I just feel, that to try to break into the CL positions, we do need better quality in Midfield. YES his goal against the Mighty Macc was good, I want to see him do it in the next 2 games, against ahem-better opposition.
Stefan Tosev
24   Posted 21/01/2009 at 21:26:05

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Dick, you can say a lot of things about Osman but he is clever player, has reasonable skills and score occasional goals, its just that his position is not the wing IMO.
Tom Bowers
25   Posted 22/01/2009 at 00:14:20

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I have said it for a long time, Ossie just doesn?t have it against the better sides. Yes, he may impress against the likes of Macclesfield and Sunderland etc but he is not nearly as commanding as he should be in the middle of the park and will always be a waste of space for Everton but DM loves his cheeks and he will always play him unfortunately.
Steve Pendleton
26   Posted 22/01/2009 at 01:20:53

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You’re right Stefan, Osman is a clever player when he has the ball at his feet. But the problem is he struggled to get the ball and make an impact when he did have it.

I’m of Dick Fearon’s thinking, he goes missing in the big games and looks clearly out of his depth. Gosling in!!!
Connor Rohrer
27   Posted 22/01/2009 at 01:06:01

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Yawn...

It’s just a typical, repetitive post to be honest. Osman did nothing wrong against Liverpool. He worked hard, kept the ball well and kept the play moving. He didn’t boss the game (he can’t) but he did contribute like every other player on the pitch.

He wasn’t even playing on the right, for the majority of the game he played behind Cahill as a second striker and occasionally switched with Victor to give us balance. I wish people would actually watch the game before commenting. If he really was THAT bad what did he do wrong? Was he lazy? Did he give the ball away? No he didn?t.

He played out of position, he does all the time. He?s not a second striker (in the hole) type player, he?s a central midfield. He?s continually pushed wide left/right and does a job for the team. He?s not the long term answer but at Everton with our small squad he is very useful and should be in the first team.

If people hadn?t noticed we have three midfielders in our squad who are capable of retaining possession, being inventive and creating goals. That?s Arteta, Osman and Pienaar. You need good balance and we need footballers on the pitch, players who are capable of passing and moving. The same people who go on about our hoof ball are the same people who want players who actually want the ball (Osman, Pienaar) out the team. It?s laughable to be honest.

What would Castillo have offered against Liverpool? Do we really want THREE holding midfielders on the pitch? No we don?t. The other option is Gosling, there?s no doubting he has talent but he?s not ready. He played well in an open game against a weak side (Boro).

I don?t mind constructive criticism but this isn?t that, it?s just singling out a player you don?t like.
Pat Turner
28   Posted 22/01/2009 at 03:09:45

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I?m just glad none of us manage Everton FC! I was also at the match and thought Vic, Ossie and Piennar all played indiferent games and got a load of abuse from me... that's my job as a supporter to single people out but not be aware that actually they ALL conformed to the team pattern. BTW I was also screaming at Moyes to make a substitution!

Let's get it straight, Moyes made all the right decisions against a top of the table team who haven?t been beaten for I don?t know how long at Anfield and have only suffered one defeat in the league all season! The current first 11 deserve their chance to play in this game against a team whose current record (over 7 games) is no better than ours.

Make no mistake, Liverpool want the win just as much as us in case the Mancs take the title again and Real Madrid turn them over in Europe. They realise that winning cups keeps the punters interested and keeps their profile high. See ya there on Sunday when hopefully we?ll be singing... "I never felt more like singin the blues when Everton win and Liverpool lose." etc etc...

Eric Myles
29   Posted 22/01/2009 at 04:32:05

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It?s funny how so many people can view the same game and come to opposite conclusions. My RS mates deny that we had them contained and that they had no shots on goal until the second half. And Sean Joyce thinks Pienaar?s performance was poor when the ?experts? commentating on the game made many mentions of his outstanding performance.
Neil Pickering
30   Posted 22/01/2009 at 09:07:47

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I dont think that?s fair on Ossie. Ok, I am not his biggest fan, but you can't fault the lads effort. Let?s be honest, who else could we put in at the moment? Castillo? I think he is shocking, he looks like a rugby player, has no balance, and plays like a Sunday league player!

Ossie worked his plums off on Monday, and does a lot of work that goes unseen, give the lad a break! Bet you he scores on Sunday!
Alan Clarke
31   Posted 22/01/2009 at 09:48:04

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McMoan, read your posts back to yourself, I don?t believe there is a more conceited poster on this site than you.

It seems after Monday, the majority of fans are praising our team spirit and togetherness and the fact we dug in to the end. Then there?s people like you asking Moyes to disrupt this all by dropping some of our most consistent performers of the season. Whether you like it or not, Liverpool are a quality side. Most of our attacking players are not going to shine against them hence the reason our entire team cost less than one of their players. You have to be more realistic with your opinions on how we should play the game. We worked hard and showed passion and got what we deserved.

Stop calling your fellow Evertonians gobshites.
Nelly Blythe
32   Posted 22/01/2009 at 09:55:13

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Someone has already commented on this but... the person we most have to fear on Sunday is not anyone wearing red but one MR S BENNETT....!!

He has never given us ANYTHING... ANYWHERE.... ANYTIME... don?t think it?s gonna change on Sunday.

I think this twat (and that?s what he is a grade 1 twat...) has had a grudge against Everton ever since he was criticised for sending of Tim Cahill for scoring ( & celebrating) a goal over FOUR yeras ago.

Since then he?s sent off Moyes (at West Brom) and has made numerous bad decisions against us in every game he?s had us in since.

As a say beware... STEVE FUCKING BENNETT !!
Alan Clarke
33   Posted 22/01/2009 at 13:14:13

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No Ciaran, what I?m saying is that we?re all blue bloods here aren?t we? Therefore no-one is a gobshite. That word should only be reserved for the RS. You can disagree with me about Pienaar, you can disagree with me about anything you like but your reasoning for doing so is not sound. Good debate should come from informed opinions. I?m not sure you?re not watching gaelic football when you write about football.

I think you?re being critical, Ciaran, because you think it makes you seem more intelligent or more knowledgeable. Almost like you?ve seen something the rest of us haven?t. Anyone who therefore doesn?t support your view is just a sheep with their ?contrived optimism?. Any intelligence on your part is lost when you go calling your fellow blues gobshites. You should be ashamed.
Mark Stone
34   Posted 22/01/2009 at 13:21:44

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Ciarán McGlone, I think the problem is that what you are describing as ’criticism’ of Osman, Hibbert and Vic etc, seems more like abuse to many of us. It’s also worth mentioning that these players are contributing to an immensely good run at the minute and rather than getting the prasie they deserve, are being beaten to the ground.

Someone on here said we should drop Hibbert on Sunday. Great idea, maybe we could ship 3 or 4 goals like we did at the start of the season when we were without him!
Ciarán McGlone
35   Posted 22/01/2009 at 13:38:51

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Mark, Here?s the facts ? as you seem to be vacuous of them.

I suggested Pienaar?s inability to pass the ball to a team mate was reason enough for him to be substituted by Moyes.

I never slated Hibbert or Osman ? although I thought the latter was not very effective, I thought the former was excellent.

If you?re going to criticise me, at least get your facts straight because, according to your logic, criticism is abuse....
Tony Williams
36   Posted 22/01/2009 at 13:47:35

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To be honest though, Ciaran, Pienaar has been misplacing passes now for quite a number of games but can also become involved in the good attacks and from what I have witnessed watching him the past year he will try and play clever defence splitting balls, granted many will not come off but I will never have a go at a player trying to play clever passes.

As I said before though he seems more off the last few games but the fact remains that no-one on the bench would be better than him, especially in the high tempo nearing nasty derby match.
Ciarán McGlone
37   Posted 22/01/2009 at 14:03:02

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Tony,

Thanks for the civilised response.

I had noticed that his bad passing was a feature for the last number of games... and that's why I think the manager should have stepped in...

To say that those on the bench could not have done any better is pure guesswork... and to keep him on the pitch in case he does something is similarly guesswork. The bottom line is that if a player is making such fundamental mistakes then the manager is paid handsomely to at least try and rectify it.
Mark Stone
38   Posted 22/01/2009 at 14:05:54

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Ciarán McGlone, I was not criticising or attacking you. My comment was merely to explain why some supporters are getting frustrated with the negative opinions expressed and the manner in which they are expressed.

Nothing I have written implies that you have done anything I?m just explaining, from the outside looking in, why some people appear to getting frustrated.

Please try not to be so defensive. Also I?m not too sure that the use of the word vacuous is appropriate in this context.

Thanks
Michael Kenrick
39   Posted 22/01/2009 at 14:33:08

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Ciarán McGlone,

Calling fellow Evertonians "gobshites" is not on. Consider yourself banned until you apologise.

Most of your offending posts have been removed and this is the second thread I have had to close because of you. Talk about the football by all means but stop with the fights. I?ve had enough of them.


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