The Mail Bag
Pluses and Minuses
Comments (105)
A draw is a tremendous, unbelievable result considering the extent to which we were comprehensively outplayed. A classic Moyes game of total and uncompromising defense (except for one "mistake") and yet the players have totally no fucking idea when in possession and (supposedly) going forward. And it?s that which continues to drive me apoplectic.
At throw-ins we continue to have no idea what to do with the ball, and end up conceding possession. Going forward, most of the players are hanging back, ready to defend, leaving the poor sod who is forward with the ball at his feet no options but to fumble and bumble, be tackled and lose possession.
Obviously it works... to an extent. But it is so fucking frustrating to watch. Surely with just a little attention to some details on the training field, a team with this spirit and belief could structure something by way of attacking football in open play? Is that really too much to ask?
Michael Kenrick, Posted 25/01/2009 at 16:12:58
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Quite possibly that is because the one person who does have a "fucking idea" in our team was not on the pitch.
I can imagine what Moyes was saying at Half Time, Tony, Jags, Jolean, stop hoofing it just look up and pass it to..ermmm...pass it to you know....erm...look for ermm...., fuck it just get rid.
I am surprised we managed a draw, as that team had so little creativity in it, it was horrible. Yet somehow the injuries have nothign to do with it, it?s all Moyes? fault and his tactics.
I must admit that I do agree with MK as it's no use keeping the opposition at bay if you have no get out ball. This is the step that we have constantly failed to take during Moyes reign. Defensive durability is great and all good sides are based on it, but at some point in the game you have to have a goal-threat and even with a full squad we still err on the side of caution. This is not a complaint on my part it is just an observation that it is an area that could be improved.
It?s hard to say it but the Shite ARE a better team than us and no matter how many times we think "they were there for the taking" they weren?t. They have not been beat at home for a long time and for the team we had today that was a good result, we are almost finding ourselves back to the team of the start of the season who was getting beat by Blackburn and trounced by Portsmouth due to injuries.
To make light of a good away draw against the leaders of the premiership, who have only been beaten once this season, with a patched up side and use it to have a go at Moyes again, like Michael has is a bit wrong.............and predictable
Today saw two grossly mismatched teams play each other ? one with two of the world?s very best players, and littered from start to finish with £10M+ internationals; the other with no attackers, its two best midfielders missing, costing less in total than a player who didn?t make their bench, and with two very inexperienced teenagers on the pitch by the end. And the second team would have won reasonably comfortably but for a very out of character goalkeeping error (Howard only had to make one other save of note, whatever huffing and puffing possession they had).
That makes me think that we did bloody great! And, if we have Arteta and Fellaini back, we can win the replay. I think Moyes and the players deserve a lot of credit (again) today and we should be proud of them and our club.
However, and I hope I am wrong but doesn?t it now mean we play Arsenal Wednesday, Man Utd Monday and then Liverpool two nights after!!!! I don't think our players will be able to run!!!!!!
Basically, Shite is the same team as we are, except they have more money and no players missing. So you’d expect them to be better. And the one thing they are good at under the waiter is defending - they always line up the way we moan about with Everton - two holding midfielders. But their holding midfielders cost just about £28million combined; we line up a couple with the combined price of £3,5 mill... So they are better at defending, they cover rooms well, and they are aggressive. And we’re without our creative players. So I’ll settle for stifling them in defense, showing the world why they won’t win a thing - there’s no real creativity going forward unless they come on the break.
Still gonna be extremely difficult for us.
I share the view of Peter - who seems to have a greater understanding of the beautiful game and the limitations that Everton?s squad sadly had today.
Love to see us beat the shite and set us up with that revenge match against Villa...
As for Castillo on today's performance, he?s absloute shite.
A Well earned point and some pride restored.
COYB!
Give over...what we?ve just achieved this afternoon, with the resources at our disposal is nothing less than remarkable. This as a result of a managerial awareness without which we would be in deep shit. If there is another manager out there who could achieve what Mr Moyes has, with the resources that have been available, then let?s be having a look at him.
Equally the spirit and application of the players today and over recent weeks has done much to enable us to feel proud of our club again... it wlli be remarkable however if we can keep this up without additional resources and as we?re as poor as church mice... well.
Thank you Mr Moyes and today's team... I?m sure I havent a clue how you're doing it......
Now about those throw-ins.....
Get real gents that was bloody shite, any team with half a clue would have demolished us today, we?re lucky they?re fuckin clueless.
But... still I wait for Moyes to give VDM a go.
anyway - great spirit by the lads again
Yes Hibbert and Jags are not the most technically gifted players on the ball, but their flaws were always going to be shown up today because 1) 2 of our 3 players who provide an ?out ball? in midfield were absent (Pienaar tried today but was let down by anyone on his wave length) and 2) the fact that we had so clearly been sent out with the instructions not to be fluid in our movement and create options for the attack in case we got hurt on the break. Our midfield seemed to be holding position in case of a breakaway rather than trying to be constructive.
Good result; piss poor performance from a football purist perspective. Where does the buck stop? Moyes for not going for it? The players for not being technically gifted enough? Moyes for not signing adequate players in all departments? The board for not financing him? Probably a mix of all of the above. Either way, circumstance and judgement doesn?t leave us in a position where we are playing great football.
- Agree 100%...
Just wish we could play them with our best team for once!!
And maybe a decent ref as well!!
I’m proud Blue boys, I’m proud!!
COYB
But still, I’m proud of today’s performance.. as repeated on here, considerin we’ve lost our two best midfielders and three strikers, a draw against a side in the top 4 is a great result, and remember, AT ANFIELD as well.
Michael Kenrick, I honestly thought you had a great deal of knowledge about football, but this is not justified im afraid. If we had Arteta or Fellaini, who in my opinion, better passers of the ball than any of our midfielders, it’d be different. Oh yeah, and special mentions to Lescott, i thought for once he was better than Jagielka, though he was also brilliant.
And opinions of Mascherano? That twat dived to try and get Cahill sent off.. it’s dispicible!!
At home, we can?t play with the same attitude, and we will have to go out and attack, if Arteta does not make it for the replay, how are we going to win the game? Because the pressure will be on us at Goodison. Also, I know Fellaini will be back, he will be a goal threat, but he?s hardly the type of player that will have us playing attacking, flowing football.
It?s not about the players who are missing. Injuries and suspensions are part of football. It?s about how the 11 + 7 players on the day are prepared and how they perform that matters to me.
If you believe it is good enough for an Everton team to be instructed to go out and only defend, to hoof the ball aimlessly forward when it does come to them, and to not show for teammates when they are looking to go forward, in case you abandon your defensive priority... well, I despair.
That is not the Everton I believe in.
As for placing all this faith in Moyes to produce the goods when he has a full team or if he had better resources, sadly I think the record shows the exact opposite is true: Moyes does best when his squad is at its absolute limits. When he has a full team, the expectations are raised, but the results rarely improve in propotion.
If we are to win anything, we, the players, the manager, the entire club need to have a winning mentality. Not a mentality that says draws against Liverpool are good enough.
At the end of the day we got a draw at Anfield which is a good result, but to do it without our best player, record signing and three top strikers is a tremendous result. If we had gone out and try to play a game of football they would have rolled over us. You have to get the best out of what you have got. Without Arteta, that?s the majority of our creative play and makes us a completely different team.
If Liverpool come to Goodison for the replay without Gerrard, Alonso, Torres, Keane & Kuyt, then we would win easy. That?s what we faced without five of our best players, and to get a draw was brilliant.
We generally just have a lack of creative players at the club. We have a great starting XI but if we get a couple of injuries we are struggling to play football so getting results is a bonus. Before Moyes we suffered for about 10 years with no creativity in the whole squad let alone the first XI. At least now we have Arteta and Pienaar. We just need a couple more for when injuries and suspensions occur, but these type of players are not cheap.
We are still in the Cup and still have a chance of 4th or at least Uefa Cup spot. If you had told me that a week ago, I?d be happy.
a result at (at6 soon to be Arabian) Sandfield, which also kept a cup record intact
a sensible use of what we have, with no evidence of fear
superb centre backs (witnessed by Capello, good or bad?)
Gosling and Rodwell involved.
Minuses, we had a few. Probably the end of Castillo as a future development, and letting Gerrard bail them out again.
Overall, still standing with fabulous spirit and a load of ability. And its not just us who think that. The media are less and less surprised by us, and people in the game express their respect for us, and today’s result just adds to that.
ps - their management will have hated this result today. Oh dear, what a shame, can’t be helped.
That was an unbelievable result tonight- an attacking and positive mentality is never going to make a Sunday team into professional world beaters. Take Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, and Carragher out of their side and see how pretty their football would be. A bit of realism is required on this site.
Please MK be happy with it. It's as good as it gets.
You are unbelievable. I really dont know what you expect. We have gone to the 2nd best team in England who have a fully fit squad and on both occasions one of their players costing more than the 11 in Blue and on both occasions got a result. Monday we were the better team overall (slightly) and today, yes, they had lots of possession but how many chances?
Now maybe you could praise Moyes for great tactics in letting them play across the back 4 all day long and actually getting nowhere. I'm sure in the home game against them we will have a go, and push more men forward and let's hope we can get a result, but if they beat us 3 or 4 on the break then at least you will be happy and I'm sure you wouldnt have the audacity to have a go at Moyes.
I find these people who never have a good word to say about Moyes quite tiresome to be honest and we may mock them across the way for their unfailing loyalty in Benitez but at least they are prepared to back him whilst the likes of you and other?s wont be happy until Moyes has gone. We will see how well we do then!!!
I can?t see us giving Stevie GBH the freedom of Goodison to strike it lucky a third time in a row, he has been lucky in that lightening struck twice for him where he saved the reds... victory SHALL be ours, WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED! COYB!!!
Bring it on.
It wasn?t pretty today, I grant you that. However, we played with guts and determination. For that reason, I am PROUD of the players. I know I?ve seen better Everton teams and players during my 34 years of supporting them. These players though have my respect.
It wasn?t pretty today, I grant you that. However, we played with guts and determination. For that reason, I am PROUD of the players. I know I?ve seen better Everton teams and players during my 34 years of supporting them. These players though have my respect.
Potential Premier League Champions best possible XI at home 1 - 1 Evertons Reserves/U19’s.
And you want to take the game to them. You crazy man.
Michael, please reveal the identity of this manager so we can all join you in getting Moyes out and bringing this genius in!
What’s that? This person doesn’t exist? Too right he doesn’t... Some people need to take a reality check before they start up their anti-Moyes bullshit! Today, as with Monday, was a job well done, and both results don’t really help to support the negative / anti-Moyes nonsense some people like to spout on here!
2nd we also played the ref, s bennett he gave us nothing all match which always kept the momentum going for LFC.
Well played boys against the odds.
Enjoyed seeing the 2 young lads coming on hopefully will prove dont just need millions to be a good team. coyb
Moyes got it spot on this time. It's almost as if some people think its just like football manager and we mshould win every game. I agree with the majority of posts here, this is a poor attempt to slate DM by the glass half empty brigade. Yes we didn?t play pretty football but we did play with passion and it was a great achievement getting two draws in a week with a depleted squad.
Sorry but passing the ball to a teammate is just basic football. I?m not asking to see Arsenal or Brazil or such nonsense (why do people refute with such ridiculous extremes?). We can?t go on surrendering possession so cheaply and hope to win anything.
Derby matches are different to other games ? so while I agree with the point of the post in principle ? I am happy to really piss those filthy scumbags off in any which way we can. Judging by the Radio Merseyside after-match phone-in and the FSW?s after-match comments ? we succeeded.
A Liverpool team with a squad as big as some League Two crowds all out for revenge after being shown as definitely overrated last week and Gerrard doing his Emlyn Hughes impersonation as the Kopite Hulk beacause he hates the fact we know he used to be a Blue! To be honest, because I knew what this game was going to be like, I expected us to get stuffed tonight but we didn?t because OUR DEFENCE WAS IMMENSE AND BETTER THAN THEIRS and defence is just as much a part of the game as attack.
Give us a level playing field, a fit squad to choose from, and maybe a Torres or Gerrard sore rib to even out the luck, and maybe we could go just that bit better than we did on Monday. For fucks sake even Gerrard said we deserved a draw on Monday which probably means in his heart of hearts he knows they were fortunate to get a draw.
It is horses for courses and all we had to do tonight was ensure we did not lose and we didn?t. That is what the FA Cup is all about. Now we have another chance in 10 days' time with hopefully a bigger squad to choose from on our own midden. Well done Blues!!!
Are you struggling?!
Despite the great result with such depletion, I share your basic frustration.
Even with a defence as disciplined (and frankly as good) as ours, to sit with everyone back except Anichebe, and no way of linking the two other than via 75yd hoofs, the strategy places unnecessary stress on the defence, is hugely risky and almost kills off any chance of scoring. I am presuming this stretched formation is temporary & due to circumstances. But it shows a lack of ambition.
It also gives them little or nothing to worry about and free licence to go forward and put us under pressure. Didn’t realise that Arteta would make THAT much difference in spunk. It clearly does.
I was shocked Howard let that through. But it’s out of character and I still think he’s great. Lescott & Jags were immense, but Jags in particular needs to stop giving the ball away with his floaty hoofs upfield. Pienaar (again) looked full of spunk and put in a great shift. But Osman contributed nothing today (sadly).
Further upside was the performance of Gosling. Confident, quick and skilful. I’d be tempted to start him in the replay ahead of Osman.
So yes, by all means set out to defend well and intelligently. But always have a way out. Breaking from defence is a crucial factor in counter-attack. We didn’t do that, we too often just cleared it anywhere and invited further pressure. We need to break with 3 or 4 to make this plan work.
Some big games coming up boys. I’d never predict it, but I think we can win at Old Trafford. They are not playing that well and we showed at Goodison how we can get into them. Possibly more so away. We’ll see. After Arsenal, ManU and "them", we have 7 eminently winnable games before going to Villa Park. Shit or bust :-)
With Arteta, Felly, possibly Saha, and young Gosling bolstering forces, possible heady stuff.
Yeah we didn?t play well with the ball, but our most creative talents were unavailable. He could call on VDM, but who knows what you?re going to get there.
Considering the troops at his disposal, I think the game plan was correct, and to the players' credit, they pulled it off. A poor goal from Howard's perspective away from a most famous victory.
Therefore I find posters criticising our play on the harsh side. With a squad assembled on our frayed shoestring budget, employing a Kenrick-favoured more adventurous style would more likely resulted in an honourable slump into a relegation battle that the consistancy we have achieved (especially if this had been Moyes's philosophy from the start of his EFC career).
With our defensive-minded style we can guarantee our upper mid-table position ? a great bridgehead from which to have a pop at the CL places if we get a little run of luck. And, when injury free, even the present squad can turn on the style ? a bit.
I doubt we will see much sexy football this season, but the slowly assembling jigsaw is taking shape and, if we have a better run of fitness next season and Moyes gets some dollops of cash, we may just be on the brink of a side capable of both the grit, the graft, and the style. COYB!
Those previous greats had great units around them and in front of them. Today and last week, the whole back four unit was magnificent with nowhere near the quality of the units of bygone years surrounding them. I am the first to bemoan the dreadful technical passing abilities of Tony Hibbert but his defensive abilities, as witnessed in these last two derby matches, are outstanding. I cannot recall any top class wing player ever turning him inside out.
Why on earth he, together with Jagielka and Neville have not been able to develop their technical abilities continues to baffle me. However, I feel Phil Neville deserves tremendous praise during these recent games in which we have been battling against adversity. Today he was certainly hugely influential in organising a midfield unit that was seriously deficient in a number of key areas.
Castillo was simply embarrassing, whatever his "lack of first team action". Whoever thinks he is a significant possibility is dreaming. Trust one of the young lads here.
Sadly, unless I missed something obvious, Osman was a huge disappointment. Also, in spite of his at times good touch, I am amazed at the good press that Piennar continues to receive. Too often like a headless chicken, he seems incapable of genuine vision and awareness of possibilities around him. Weak in the tackle, He has rarely to my memory carried the least bit of goal threat either in incisive final penalty area pass or shot on target and yet he continues to evade any of the criticism launched at the likes of Osman and others.
With this in mind, Neville?s influence, especially today, I feel needs to be recognised. I too bemoan the lack of genuine "joined up" play today but it was, after all, an amazing set of circumstances that the team were coping with... and then, to compound it all, Anichebe joins the sorry list of the wounded.
Both teams must have set out today with different objectives. Liverpool, with their infinitely greater resources, obviously to win the match as witnessed by their selection (Able to completely dispense with the services of a £20,000,000 player?). Everton, not to lose the game. Who won?
A world-class striker such as Torres limited to one chance in the two games. World-class midfielder Gerrard scores twice. Once due to a superb shot, albeit allowed him by defensive aberrations by three defenders being drawn to one side of the action, and today due to a goalkeeping error.
Sure it was not pretty today, sure it was sad to see possession squandered so easily but (to rejig a Light Brigade reference) it may not have been war but that back four were truly magnificent, were they not? And that deserves real praise and recognition. Jagielka and Lescott in particular were simply outstanding.
The Torres/Gerrard goal was very well played out but it also made the Everton defence look amateurish ? 3 defenders huddling around Torres while Gerrard ran free forward for the potential (and eventual) pass.
I don?t understand the criticism of Castillo, it appeared to me he did was was asked of him ? harrying players with the ball, trying to intercept, and feeding the ball off forward when he won it, with just one touch (which sadly many players in the squad can?t manage). To replace him with Rodwell actually disturbed the balance in the team.
When Castillo played the ball forward and it went astray, this happened more because some of our slow-thinking players hadn?t run the few 5-10 meters into empty space to receive/anticipate the ball, almost if Castillo was too clever for them.
I?d like him to get more involved further forward where his quick and incisive passing might make more impact. He himself just needs to speed up a bit when running in possession of the ball.
For me the players with the least influence in the game today were Neville, Osman and Cahill. Neville disappeared as often, Osman had the ball now and again but always looked lost, and apart from his contribution to the goals last weekend and today, I don?t think Cahill did any more in either match than I did watching. I know he?s important for such goals but I still think he needs to contribute more overall.
Anyway, Michael, if Moyes gets to hear of your criticism, responds by going all gung-ho at Goodison and we get stuffed a la Arsenal... I?ll be round to put your windows in.
Take Gerrard, Torres and Alonso (arguably liverpools 3 influential playes) and see how they cope? Do the same with any other team if you like and you will find that 99% will suffer.
STOP FUCKIN MOANING
Exceptional result from the lads given the circumstances...
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum COYB
No Arteta = no creativity;
No attakers = no attack.
But today, after what was a magnificent performance by a wounded and depleted Everton side at the home of our bitterest enemies and closest rivals, wasn?t the day to express anything but admiration and great pride in what played out. Criticism is for another day. Valid points or not, in the face of a magnificent Everton defensive performance you only succeeded in sounding a lot like Rafa Benitez. And for a dyed-in-the-wool blue such as we all know you are, that?s just sad...
Sure, we didn't play, sure most of the players didn't look like they wanted the ball, sure we didn't play hardly any football at all ? obviously all that is without debate.
But, my point of contention with you is do you not see the key players we had missing? Those are the guys who give us the ball possession.
Do you not see we do not have the financial resources to cover such injuries yet? Our squad has progressed year on year under Moyes and I am sure he would love to add another 2 or 3 players who are more comfortable on the ball.
You can't blame Neville and Castillio for not playing, it's the same as the Neville-Carsely thing, it doesn't work, both are defensive midfielder water carrier types, it's not their fault they are shit in possession... note the difference when Neville or Carsely alone played with the 4 attacking midfielders ? why? because they obviously have lots of easy outlets.
Short of lending the club a few million to bring in another creative midfielder, I am not sure what your point is. We have injuries and little money.
Deal with it.
It's easy to criticise a manager that he cannot do this or that, but the fact remains that a manager has to play horses for courses. We have dominated teams and played beautiful football (Chelsea, Villa, Hull) but sometimes you have to be defensive. We are not blessed with a CR to simply enthrall opposition defences, so today's game was the perfect strategy..
The thing I take away from this though is the fact that Benitez has no class whatsoever. It?s easy enough to say we already knew that but last night he really showed what a tosser he is.
MOYES IS GOING NOWHERE
The imperative, therefore, is not to identify some magical new manager out of the ether, but to get the one we have to do an even better job. He has done in the past... but all too briefly.
People like to say "he is young... he?s still learning" but that one is wearing a little thin. After seven years, the die is pretty much cast. But I still live in hope (albeit decreasing by the week) that he will finally be worthy of the title Everton Manager and the massive contract he is on. That will involve us winning something ? if he doesn?t then he will go down as ultimately a failure, with 4th place his highest and greatest achievement.
You may not want us to win anything under Moyes: I do. But I know that, in order to do so, we cannot continue playing this dreadful negative football when we are in possession of the ball.
It might also be worth pointing out that over the two games we had more efforts on target than them, that's a fact.
People have been calling for Castillo, surprise, surprise ? he wasn't match fit and let's face it, Jack ? despite his obvious potential ? isn't ready. Gosling has has barely played two hours first team football and the same fools are putting him up as the answer, give these kids a break will you?
We live to fight ? and play prettier football ? another day.
It?s hard to play good football when your key attacking players are out, it?s hard to retain possession when you?ve got a midfielder upfront (the ball rarely sticks), a creative midfielder playing as a second striker (Osman) and two defensive midfielders who aren?t comfortable on the ball and to be honest, didn?t want the ball.
We can retain possession when we have our full strength team out, we?ve proven that during periods over the last two seasons. Especially since the Spurs game I?ve seen a lot of composure and control in our play without being overly creative. This is mainly due to Arteta being in midfield and knitting things together, linking up with the likes of Pienaar, Baines and Osman.
We can probably cope with one or two injuries, anymore and we revert to our ?same old, same old? so to speak. Long ball, defensive mentality and backs against the wall stuff. We simply don?t have enough attacking, creative players who can come in and replace the likes of Arteta, Yakubu, Fellaini and Saha, players who all influence the game in different ways.
Since the Spurs game though I have seen an added composure and control in our play, we are sweeping lesser teams aside no problem. In the past we?d have made a meal out of beating the likes of Hull, Sunderland and Macclesfield due to the lack of control in our play, the lack of movement and the poor ball retention.
I do think Moyes is learning, it?s taken time I know but since the Spurs game he?s been far more positive. We?ve introduced an attacking fullback who gives us far more options and moving Arteta into a central position has been key, every team needs a player who can put their foot on the ball and keep possession.
That is not the Everton I believe in.?
The Everton you believe in is called Tottenham. Go watch them.
Seriously, though, you claim that one has to live with the injuries sustained and still make the best of it. We did. You expect us to take injuries and suspensions to our best attacking players and still play like Chelsea. That?s just not realistic. I?ll second your hope for us playing better, but until we have the money, we won?t, and more importantly, when we are bereft of most of our best attacking players, WE WON?T PLAY WELL OFFENSIVELY! That?s basic football. I know you are reluctant to come down from your high horse, but frankly, this post from you ? and your subsequent defense of it ? is really far out. Get a grip!
If you want to know what a good job Moyesy has done/is doing, ask any fan of the Toon, Spurs, Mackems, Pompey, Boro, City...
As for us, it was always going to be backs to the wall, with Anichebe back to his usual apathetic form. I can understand players hoofing from around our 18-yard box when we?re under pressure but Osman's ball retention and passing are atrocious and have been all season. I?d like to see him dropped for Gosling, he looks like a schoolboy and plays like a girl, he's generally a passenger.
We?ll take the draw and hope we can have our better players fit for the replay, which i can only see us winning. HE'S JUST A FAT SPANISH WAITER.
Discuss.
When injuries and suspensions take effect, of course the personnel will change. With EFC that means almost asking the ball boys if they want a game ? such is the stature of this club these days. That doesn?t mean that particular tactics can?t be utilised. What it highlights all too frequently is that Moyes is a one-trick pony ? DEFEND at all costs. There is so much evidence for this that is is alarming not all can see it. But as the saying goes ? "there?s none so blind as those who can?t see".
This more than anything else is the reason I will never step foot inside Goodison again whilst Moyes is in charge. If you add to that all the other fiascos ? the management of the club and the Kirkby saga ? it is more of a mystery that others haven?t followed suit. EFC doesn?t deserve the support it gets. That doesn?t mean that everyone is sane though!
Michael, I agree we were shite and we did keep giving it away instead of trying to keep possession, even if under the cosh that should try to be improved.
You said ?unless we show some ability going forward, we cannot win. If the object of the game is soley to defend and to strike on a set-piece, then so be it. The problem is that stratgey will not create a winning team, it will not win trophies.? ? I agree. You?d have a point if we played like that every week, but we don?t. We played like that away to Liverpool with half a side missing. You keep saying about how simple football is, etc. Well maybe they couldn?t help it, what was out there, no matter how coached, etc. could only do what they did.
You also said ?It?s not about the players who are missing. Injuries and suspensions are part of football. It?s about how the 11 + 7 players on the day are prepared and how they perform that matters to me.? - Of course injuries, etc. fuckin matter. Realism is if Everton get a number of injuries to key players, we are not much of an attacking side when playing the big sides (we showed we can cope against lesser sides though e.g. Sunderland, Hull).
You go on to say ?If you believe it is good enough for an Everton team to be instructed to go out and only defend, to hoof the ball aimlessly forward when it does come to them, and to not show for teammates when they are looking to go forward, in case you abandon your defensive priority... well, I despair.? - Ridicluous comment. Of course we don?t think it?s good enough. But I can cope with it for a few fuckin games when all of out best players are missing and we?re playing the joint top league leaders at their place, you catch my drift?
Another comment from you ?When he has a full team, the expectations are raised, but the results rarely improve in propotion.? - Do you remember having a full settled side last year when we went 14 games unbeaten (went 4th in the league, semi?s of cup, 100% record in our European group, etc. Also, after a poor start to this season (when we had loads out), when players came back results improved significantly. Perhaps have a look at your comment again as it?s innacurate.
You also said ?If we are to win anything, we, the players, the manager, the entire club need to have a winning mentality. Not a mentality that says draws against Liverpool are good enough.? - You need to add a bit of realism into your thinking Michael. I was happy with a draw because we can get them back to Liverpool and hopefully we?ll have some of our creative, attacking players back. There?s no doubt we play some nice, attacking football when we have all of our players available.
Finally, you said ?MOYES IS GOING NOWHERE
?The imperative, therefore, is not to identify some magical new manager out of the ether, but to get the one we have to do an even better job. He has done in the past... but all too briefly.?
How can he do a better job if he?s going nowhere???
Maybe you?re stuck in the 80?s, who knows, but a bit of realism is needed here. If we played like we did yesterday all the time, fair enough, but we don?t and there was good reason why we did yesterday. The bottom line is even when full strength, we?re decent, but not as good as the top 4 and under current resources no manager would do better, unless you have some suggestions for someone who?s free. As people have pointed out, look at all the clubs who always outspend us who are below us. Perhaps we could poach JK from Newcastle, what do you reckon??
Oh my god. you people have no clue.
We had injuries and the guys who were fit were the guys who are a little limited in possession... consequently, we got over run by ? let's face it ? a team with better players in most positions all over the pitch.
Our lads hung on with huge effort. How anyone can do anything but praise them is beyond me.
Like previous people on here are saying, get 'em back at our place... throw the noise in and be that 12th man we have to be. The noise generated by the fans in the Anfield Road end drowned the Norwegians out 10 fold.... 10 times that many Evertonians in our place need to give it massive volume on Wednesday week.... BRING IT ON!!!
When was the last time you were at Goodison? And are you going to stay away if we play in Europe again next season? Try and answer honestly now.
As for your "details on the training ground" that has all evidently been spent on set pieces and defensive organisation and to good effect. It was a good result, don?t get me wrong, but if we are to look at progressing as a club we need to be making teams work harder to get the ball off us and providing more of a threat from open play.
And before people go on about the injury crisis, we still had a team of professional footballers on the pitch against a team bereft of confidence and with obvious defensive frailties of their own. Anyway, with our "better" players back soon I hope we can do more than battening down the hatches in the replay.
On another note, it?s nice to see Baines getting a run in the side and proving that he is a quality left-back. An interesting selection headache to Moyes now that Yobo is back will he revert to putting Joleon back in at left-back or make Yobo sweat it out on the bench? Surely he won?t change a successful defensive setup?
Too often we surrendered possession ? I?m sure Moyes himself would admit we did ourselves no favour in that respect. Again, it was a good result and yes we were depleted but if we are gonna beat them we need more quality on the ball and not just from set pieces.
Everyone knows the RS are weak everywhere but down the middle, especially Drossena and Arsebeloa and Babel/Kuyt are not exactly wizards on the wing either. Let?s take the game to them, leave a defensive midfielder to cover the evil Gerrard, Jagelka will back-pocket Torres again and we will batter them. Believe.
Would you call, for example, Michael Ballack a Nazi, or an Asian "Mr Curry"?
Thought not.
In the light of his bitter comments comparing us to Spanish league minnows ? I like the suggestion on another post of singing "Extremadura" to the tune of Quantanamera.
Also how can a whole Country be classed as a racist term?
Your interpretation, that Everton (under Moyes) is going nowhere, was not what I said.
Did you go when Walter Smith, Joe Royle, Mike Walker, Howard Kendall, Colin Harvey, Billy Bingham, Gordon Lee, Harry Catterick ...... were Manager? I have and we played some shit then too.
Michael Kenrick is essentially an idealist who wants us to play with more flair and style. I think it is fair to say most of us blues agree with him. I don?t want to pay my cash to watch hoofball (to use Tony Marsh?s term). I too want to watch Everton play with style but I am also entertained by tackling and good defending and a team with a never-say-die attitude.
It would be great if we had a squad of the highest quality but at this moment in time we don?t have that. It would be great if money were no object ? the Mersey Millionaires as we once were... but we are not ? our financial might of yesteryear is long gone. We must live within our means and buy players within those means. And that means we struggle to compete in building a top quality squad that would be able to play the style of football everyone would like to watch. Maybe even you.
David Moyes has done an incredible job with what he has had to work with ? extremely limited resources. I personally believe he is the best manager around at that. Maybe not the best tactically or willing to sacrifice results for style ? but at working with limited resources he is No 1 for me and, given the state of our finances (or lack of), I would not swap him for anyone.
And before anyone says it, I don?t see David Moyes as anything other than a temporary keeper of the keys just the same as Bill Kenwright. I do not put blind faith in either. And nor am I tolerant of people who slag him off unfairly as many do.
That is just the balanced view of someone who has watched our club since 1963. And most importantly will continue to attend Everton matches home/away and in Europe ? no matter who is the manager or what league we are in.
Anyone offended at the term FSW should lighten up FFS. I happen to be fat but don?t take the ump at being called a "fat" whatever, as I am frequently.
Last time I saw him (yesterday) he was still Spanish. He was still more than chubby. And he definitely looked like a lot of his countrymen with towels draped over their arms in thousands of holiday resorts all over the med.
What is it you want - PC in the extreme?
The one with a goatee who looks like a fat spanish waiter.
And when you see a Pakistani Muslim walking down the street with a long beard and typical Muslim attire, do you call him a terrorist?
Like it or not, it?s the same principle.
Must we pander so completely to the PC crowd that we can't call the irish thick, the Welsh sheep shaggers or the Scottish tight-fisted wifebeaters?
ps: FSW reminds me a little of the fat Begian Waiter (FBW) in Allo Allo.
(before you get on one, I am from Walton)
I prefer to discuss football rather than anything else on TWeb.
So if you want to solve the middle east crisis, credit crunch, the price of fish or phrases that are not PC can you do it somewhere else. We are all different and I don’t need or welcome diversity lectures from the likes of you.
Talk about the match FFS
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 25/01/2009 at 18:03:47
Report abuse
I still think the whole team can be proud of their efforts today!