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Tough
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I posted a question a while ago asking who committed the appalling challenge that ended Geoff Nulty's career. The answer was Jimmy Case. I wasn't surprised ? he really was a total piece of scum.
It set me thinking though... everyone loves their own hard men. Look at the respect we accorded to Duncan Ferguson. So who was the hardest, nastiest piece of work ever to wear an Everton shirt?
Duncan and Pat van den Hauwe were tough hard players but they weren't exactly subtle... Brian Labone was tough but played in an era when everyone was (George Best could leave a foot in). Brian Kidd could be a dirty bastard as could Mark Hughes.
However, in the time I have watched Everton (42 years) one man stands out. Step forward... Bruce Rioch. He had it all. Fine player, subtle, mouthy and hard as nails. In fact I would put him second only to the mighty John Giles.
I'd like either of them to have 45 minutes against Ronaldo...
Andy Crooks, Posted 30/01/2009 at 15:23:39
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Got to go back to the 1960’s for that one.
I’d say Johnny Morrisey , closely followed by ’John Hurst’.
I remember the derbies against the RS in the 60’s. ’John Hurst’ used to square up to ’Tommy Smith’ a few times but in one game that was really dirty and ’Morrisey’ had had enough of ’Smith’s’ so called challenged and went for him. ’Smith’ turned on his heels and walked away. The only time I ever saw ’Smith’
" chicken out " !!
I’d say Johnny Morrisey , closely followed by ’John Hurst’.
I remember the derbies against the RS in the 60’s. ’John Hurst’ used to square up to ’Tommy Smith’ a few times but in one game that was really dirty and ’Morrisey’ had had enough of ’Smith’s’ so called challenged and went for him. ’Smith’ turned on his heels and walked away. The only time I ever saw ’Smith’
" chicken out " !!
I was at that game Andy and in my opinion this is not exactly a healthy topic for open debate.
Well before Case actually made contact my dad turned to me and said ’this is really gonna hurt’ and sure enough with that Nulty’s playing days were immediately over.
Enough said i reckon.
Well before Case actually made contact my dad turned to me and said ’this is really gonna hurt’ and sure enough with that Nulty’s playing days were immediately over.
Enough said i reckon.
Marco Materazzi.
I think he was booked more times than Fellaini in his single season with us.
I think he was booked more times than Fellaini in his single season with us.
I’d have to say Richard Gough. Remember how he was still standing when big Don Hutchison went to lamp him? Modern footballers would be rolling around like they’d been shot if that’d happened to them.
I’d often wonder (mostly in history lessons) who would win in a fight between him and Dunc if they were starved for a week, with a leg of raw meat going to the victor.
Seriously though. Richard Gough. Tough sod.
I’d often wonder (mostly in history lessons) who would win in a fight between him and Dunc if they were starved for a week, with a leg of raw meat going to the victor.
Seriously though. Richard Gough. Tough sod.
Fair point Neil, what I?m saying though is that we turn a blind eye to the faults of our own players. Also there is a line to be drawn between toughness and what Case, Keane and others have done. I don?t think Duncan would ever have tried to end the career of another pro.
Dirtiest - nobody
Hardest - Peter Reid
Best tackler from behind - Colin Harvey (class)
Ankle tapper - Screech (bless his Belgian cotton socks)
Question - which Everton player would you NOT like in another shirt?
My choice, Cahill (love him to death, but would hate us to play against him - nauseating little bar-steward!)
Hardest - Peter Reid
Best tackler from behind - Colin Harvey (class)
Ankle tapper - Screech (bless his Belgian cotton socks)
Question - which Everton player would you NOT like in another shirt?
My choice, Cahill (love him to death, but would hate us to play against him - nauseating little bar-steward!)
As a kid I was a winger and always took a particular interest in winger/ fullback match ups at games often standing near the corner flag to watch from close up. The most physical one I ever saw was between Johnny Morrissey and Paul Reaney of Leeds. Both real hard cases. In the 1970 season, we beat them 3-2 at home and one challenge from Reaney left the crowd silent because of the way he crashed into Morrissey?s shin. We thought his leg was bust.
Morrissey stayed down for all of about ten seconds got up and threw his broken shinpad into the front row of the crowd. About five minutes later Reaney is in his own corner making a clearance and Morrissey comes in to block. Both made contact with the ball at the same time virtually head on. Result: Reaney goes off on a stretcher and we got a corner.
Micky Norman and Mike Rowland ? I remember both those incidents with Johnny Morrissey. He was as hard as nails our Muggsy. What a smashin footballer ? he had skill too. However, I remember a certain Sandy Brown from the same era who played full back for us. Now he was scary.
Firstly I think it a shame the original post mentioned Brian Labone in the same paragraphs as discussion of dirty or nasty players. There was a reason Catterick called him ’The last of he Corinthians’ yanno! And remember, he was booked only twice in his professional career! Dirty, he was not Sir!
Of the players thus far mentioned who wore the Royal Blue shirt, I remember Mark Hughes (in his Manyoo days) being a right dirty so and so, as well as being a great player. IIRC one match an opponent broke his own leg as he went in on Hughes and, as he lay screaming on the deck, the Welshman still had a dig at him! Talk about kick man when he’s down!
Off the field he seems a real gent (saw him in a pub once in his early Manyoo days, he was very polite and respectful) but on the pitch he could be an utter monster (Joe Jordan had a similar split personality).
Another Manyoo import was the sort you loved to have on your said but hated when playing against you. Step forward Norman Whiteseide!
Of the players thus far mentioned who wore the Royal Blue shirt, I remember Mark Hughes (in his Manyoo days) being a right dirty so and so, as well as being a great player. IIRC one match an opponent broke his own leg as he went in on Hughes and, as he lay screaming on the deck, the Welshman still had a dig at him! Talk about kick man when he’s down!
Off the field he seems a real gent (saw him in a pub once in his early Manyoo days, he was very polite and respectful) but on the pitch he could be an utter monster (Joe Jordan had a similar split personality).
Another Manyoo import was the sort you loved to have on your said but hated when playing against you. Step forward Norman Whiteseide!
Excellent question Gerry. In reverse order here?s the top three:
Alan Ball, John Morrissey (I respectfully defer to Micky Norman) and, finally Gary Lineker, tough like Ghandi.
Alan Ball, John Morrissey (I respectfully defer to Micky Norman) and, finally Gary Lineker, tough like Ghandi.
Chris Jones, you are absolutely right. Brian Labone was as hard as Dave McKay but was neither dirty or nasty. Sorry.
The old blokes I go to the match with all talk about Moggsy being as hard as nails ? apparently ?tackling? someone and immediately calling for a stretcher! But in my memory Rioch probably was the hardest but still a nice footballer though. Always thought Duncan was a cartoon hard man ? but still my oldest nearly got named after him!
Marco Materazzi? He wasn't hard. He got sent off more times than most players get booked. He was just pretty awful at tackling and getting caught out.
I can remember in the early 90s we had Ray Atteveld. Seem to remember him being a dirty sod!
Leon Osman
I have asked my dad several times about this sort of thing and he says Johnny Morrissey ? without a doubt. He must have been one tough character.
Tony Marsh:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
You’d make a fine stand-up comedian! Problem is Leon couldn’t - he’s not funny and can’t stand-up!
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
You’d make a fine stand-up comedian! Problem is Leon couldn’t - he’s not funny and can’t stand-up!
Billy Kenny ? I remember a game v Wimbledon in the early 1990s I think. When both teams came out for the second half, Billy Kenny and Vinny Jones came out last. The ball was kicked off to where the away fans sit now while those two were by the dugouts and just had a fist fight for about 10 seconds totally off the ball!! Neither was booked and Vinny Jones went nowhere near Billy Kenny after that in the second half!
Leeds always had a plethora of tough/dirty plays the worst being Norman "Break your legs" Hunter. Billy Bremner was very tough but bordered on fair. Jack Charlton was famous for having a "Black book" with players names he was going to "do".
Liverpool, as you might expect have the dirtiest but not the toughest Jimmy Case, Graham Souness (probably the most despicable) always going over the top to injure a player, Tommy Smith, and now Carragher the wrestler and Mascherano the sneak.
United had a left back in the 70s (can't remember his name) who IMO was the dirtiest player ever and he ended up breaking his leg. I thought I could never feel this way but he fully deserved it.
Liverpool, as you might expect have the dirtiest but not the toughest Jimmy Case, Graham Souness (probably the most despicable) always going over the top to injure a player, Tommy Smith, and now Carragher the wrestler and Mascherano the sneak.
United had a left back in the 70s (can't remember his name) who IMO was the dirtiest player ever and he ended up breaking his leg. I thought I could never feel this way but he fully deserved it.
A litle bit before my time but I?ve been told Tony Kay never took many prisoners and was as tough as they come.
In one of Bally?s books, he writes about Johnny Morrissey being very tough and hard... It was a different game back then, though...
Johnny Morrissey seemed to be on a personal crusade against the Leeds team Jay talks about. I don't remember the Reaney incident Micky saw, but I remember him doing someone at Leeds, It was my first away game. Bremner, Giles and the rest were screaming at moggsy, threatening all sorts, Elland Rd was going off its head, I was terrified. Morrissey turned in our direction... he didn't have a care in the world.
Then there was the imfamous "put that in your black book" tackle on Jack Charlton.
Me Arl fella used to say, they don't seem to see Moggsy coming, but they always knew he?d been.
Then there was the imfamous "put that in your black book" tackle on Jack Charlton.
Me Arl fella used to say, they don't seem to see Moggsy coming, but they always knew he?d been.
A shame Martin Keown hasn’t got a mention. I remember a game against Wimbledon where he was standing over Vinny Jones who sh*t himself. Keown wouldn’t back down from anyone. Oh and then the was the Sheedy incident.
I know he pissed us all off by joining the shite but Steve Mc Mahon took no shit .
I have not read any of the responses to this posting but here is something from my personal experience.....
I was at that match and used to stand on my milk crate to the right of the Everton dug out in the Enclosure with my head barely popping up over the wall. My first few years at Goodison were spent really at "GrassRoots" level. I was directly in line of sight of that tackle and I still remember it to this day. It still gives me a bit of a shiver as I recall the moment and can recall the crowds reaction and the mayhem that ensued. I just hope that Mr. Case is as sick with regret as Michael Sutcliffe, Ian Brady and Clive Thomas.
I was at that match and used to stand on my milk crate to the right of the Everton dug out in the Enclosure with my head barely popping up over the wall. My first few years at Goodison were spent really at "GrassRoots" level. I was directly in line of sight of that tackle and I still remember it to this day. It still gives me a bit of a shiver as I recall the moment and can recall the crowds reaction and the mayhem that ensued. I just hope that Mr. Case is as sick with regret as Michael Sutcliffe, Ian Brady and Clive Thomas.
One of my ealiest memories in football was watching Graham Souness as player manager for Rangers on Sportsnight. He went in tough on the tackle on a player, the player got up, grabbed a fist full of Souness’ shirt wihile pulling his other fist back threatning to punch him there and then.
Souness stretched out his arms open leaving himself wide open and more or less said ’take your swing and you’ll find out what fucking happens’ or at least that was the message. I think the player bottled it and just let him go.
For this reason, I’m a fan of the man.
Souness stretched out his arms open leaving himself wide open and more or less said ’take your swing and you’ll find out what fucking happens’ or at least that was the message. I think the player bottled it and just let him go.
For this reason, I’m a fan of the man.
Nick, I wonder if you’d still feel the same way if you’d seen the dispicable twat run 20 yards to punch Mick Lyons, then jump behind other players who were holding Mick back from giving him the hiding he deseved
Mick Lyons could dish it out, remember seeing him on two successive Saturdays have Andy Gray and Malcolm Mac Donald limping off by half time.
Ratters wasn’t adversed to taking the occaisional quick stricker out at the half way line.
Ratters wasn’t adversed to taking the occaisional quick stricker out at the half way line.
Don’t want to bore you but a few more names Jimmy Gabriel, great player. Paul Bracewell didn’t shirk. The great Roy Vernon had a mean streak,but nobody did with more aplomb than Tony Kay.
Jay Harris
The United player you refer to was a little shit called John Fitzpatrick. He was the worst type of player because he was, like Giles, Bremner,Souness and Case, a coward. Sly, over the top tackles or tackles from behind designed to break legs or badly injure players. Fitzpatricks’ career did end through fitness problems following cartilage operations and the resultant arthritis.
Morrissey was as hard a player as you could wish to see. Not necessarily dirty but could give it back if needed which it often was in the 60’s-70’s. Tony Kay was also a hard man.
I don’t know what kind of illegal substance Andy Crooks is on but Lineker? Hard? Your ’avin a laff...
The United player you refer to was a little shit called John Fitzpatrick. He was the worst type of player because he was, like Giles, Bremner,Souness and Case, a coward. Sly, over the top tackles or tackles from behind designed to break legs or badly injure players. Fitzpatricks’ career did end through fitness problems following cartilage operations and the resultant arthritis.
Morrissey was as hard a player as you could wish to see. Not necessarily dirty but could give it back if needed which it often was in the 60’s-70’s. Tony Kay was also a hard man.
I don’t know what kind of illegal substance Andy Crooks is on but Lineker? Hard? Your ’avin a laff...
This is a superb thread; cheers all you guys who are sharing the memories! Very, very cool stuff here.
And Tony, as per usual with your posts, tried not to, but you still got a major smile! Always do, mate.
COYB in a few. Which of yas are almost off to make noise at the theatre of reams?
And Tony, as per usual with your posts, tried not to, but you still got a major smile! Always do, mate.
COYB in a few. Which of yas are almost off to make noise at the theatre of reams?
From Ray Wilson and Brian Labone, when asked ...’’a dead heat between Morrissey and Tony Kay’’
Anyone remember Sandy Brown coming runner up to Peter Lorimer as the hardest shot in Britain - and just after that against Stoke (?) he hoofed one full blast out of defence and caught the referee in the stomach? I think it was in that match that he also cracked one, it hit a policeman - whose hat flew into the crowd and came back out like a fisbee.
Shite football match, but lots of incident.
I know - WTF has that got to do with this thread - just thought I’d mention it!
Shite football match, but lots of incident.
I know - WTF has that got to do with this thread - just thought I’d mention it!
Guys read the mail bag every day, old mans a Red,still love him I’m 60. Played against souness in Oss prior to his move to liverpool he played RB broke a 16yr old’s leg( non league Para Hills) Hard, no doubt,
Was only here for beer money,dirty ,unscrupulous certainly.not well thought of down here
Was only here for beer money,dirty ,unscrupulous certainly.not well thought of down here
Peter Reid chasing down Ricky Hill (Luton) for injuring Adrian Heath.
Think they dropped the stretcher going down the tunnel.
Think they dropped the stretcher going down the tunnel.
I remember when George Best used to come to Goodison and Terry Darracott always seemed to be picked against him - with usually fearful results for George.
I remember we played Wimbledon at Plough Lane we lost 3-1 I think but I remember Fash the Bash giving Dave Watson a torrid time . You could see Dave wasn’t up for it.Then the last 10 minutes Harvey sent on big Norman Whiteside and within 60 seconds got booked for a crunching tackle on Fash the bash. By the way who’s Michael Sutcliffe
Gary Stevens could handle himself couldn’t he. I know we like to hold up Jimmy Case as a nasty man but Stevens’s tackle on Jim Beglin wasn’t too clever was it.
Surely it was Sheffield Wednesday’s Brian Marwood that Reidy clattered after he’d finished Incy’s season prematurely
Surely it was Sheffield Wednesday’s Brian Marwood that Reidy clattered after he’d finished Incy’s season prematurely
Surely on the 3rd attempt I can manage to spell "Inchy".
Gary Francis: Oops. I must have still been shuddering from the memory of that tackle. I meant the Yorkshire Ripper - Peter Sutcliffe . I was comparing the tackle to attempted murder from a mindless thug with no repect for human life and I just had to throw in Clive Thomas for that disallowed goal. I bet every Everton fan he meets mentions it.
You wanna hard man?
Come on down
Davy Hickson!
Come on down
Davy Hickson!
Surprised no-ones mentioned Pat van Den Howe from the recent past.
I remember HK signed him from Birmingham City with a reputation for being a bit of a hellraiser.
His nickname was ’physco’, and I’ve seen him twat a few players who had the audacity to try and get past him.
Nearly all of his short Everton career was spent as left back and I think he scored the only goal away at Norwich City which clinched us another Championship.
He had this vacant look in his eyes when he was about to ’do’ someone.
Another of Kendalls great bargain buys.
I remember HK signed him from Birmingham City with a reputation for being a bit of a hellraiser.
His nickname was ’physco’, and I’ve seen him twat a few players who had the audacity to try and get past him.
Nearly all of his short Everton career was spent as left back and I think he scored the only goal away at Norwich City which clinched us another Championship.
He had this vacant look in his eyes when he was about to ’do’ someone.
Another of Kendalls great bargain buys.
Jimmy Gabriel
I remeber Mogsy putting Tony Book who was another mean bastard into the Paddock after he had flattened Jimmy Husband and a very sheepish Sumerbee keeping away after first going to Book’s rescue.
Alan Ball was a great player but he could look after himself and was never afraid of a challange.
I remember Dave Mackay nearly killing Jimmy Husband who was never the same player after that tackle, and what about Dave Clements from N Ireland who patrolled the midfield for a short while
during the mid 70’s.
Great thread
Alan Ball was a great player but he could look after himself and was never afraid of a challange.
I remember Dave Mackay nearly killing Jimmy Husband who was never the same player after that tackle, and what about Dave Clements from N Ireland who patrolled the midfield for a short while
during the mid 70’s.
Great thread
Yakubu. don’t fancy him nutting me with the back of his bulb head
On the subject of hard men of football nobody has mentioned Bobby Collins,he was small,but he was a hard player who could look after himself and stood up to the opposition.More recent,Tony Kay,Johnny Morrissey and Sandy Brown(God Bless Him),I remember all the Anglo-Scots players,i.e Bremner.Yard-dog Yeats,Mackay would give Sandy a wide berth as he used to threaten them during and after the game,he had this reputation in Scotland which he brought with him,he was a gentleman away from the field and him and Alex Scott were good pals.
Good thread keep em’ going
Good thread keep em’ going
Tony Kay and Dennis Steven’s.Dave McKay playing for Spur’s done Alex Young just after the kick off.Kay and Steven’s set about mckay for the whole game.Kay,what a loss for us.Morrisey has to in there as well.
Softest player? Pat Nevin or what about Kroldrup who felt the need to leave as soon as he realised that as a centre half there is slight possibility that the opposition might challenge you for ball and it might hurt.
I remember a couple of incidents the first Psycho v Psycho in a game when Van den Hauwe and Stuart Pearce lined up against one another. Well, as they were both left backs, I can't recall which one it was but one definitely swapped flanks for five minutes just waiting for that crunching tackle to appear... indeed it finally did they both went in hard as they could and they both got straight back up. As someone else has stated, I'd love to see either of them mark Ronaldo for 90 minutes just once.
The other was Utd at home in the mid-90s, Ferguson clatted somebody, their hard man Keane ran about fifty yards across the pitch to have a go then when he got there, looked up... realised who it was and walked away with his tail between his legs and didn't say a word... marvellous!
Great thread and wonderful memories, sadly the only place you see hard tackles any more is in the championship or the league.
Thats a real bummer because this game IS a contact sport although you would never believe it to watch a EPL game. Today you see players diving, acting, feigning injury to get a fellow player sent off.
Ronaldo couldn’t hold a candle to Best. He could take a tackle and still get up and play. It is perhaps one of the sad things that has changed the competitive nature of the game. We have evolved to playing tag football..
If your in any doubt of that, Big Dunc in his last season couldn’t MOVE ot TOUCH anyone without being penalised. It was embarassing to watch, not because he was playing badly or differently, the game had changed and he couldn’t.
Hard men? today? are there any??
Thats a real bummer because this game IS a contact sport although you would never believe it to watch a EPL game. Today you see players diving, acting, feigning injury to get a fellow player sent off.
Ronaldo couldn’t hold a candle to Best. He could take a tackle and still get up and play. It is perhaps one of the sad things that has changed the competitive nature of the game. We have evolved to playing tag football..
If your in any doubt of that, Big Dunc in his last season couldn’t MOVE ot TOUCH anyone without being penalised. It was embarassing to watch, not because he was playing badly or differently, the game had changed and he couldn’t.
Hard men? today? are there any??
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1 Posted 30/01/2009 at 20:38:35
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