The Mail Bag

Some thoughts on the game...

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Just some thoughts on the Man Utd game:

  1. Vic Anichebe is not up to the standard necessary to play for an Everton team trying to break into the top four.
  2. Tony Hibbert has become quite possibly our outstanding player. He must be due an England call up. Some of his tackles today were first class.
  3. Howard is now playing at the top of his game. He is a fantastic shot-stopper.
  4. Fellaini has great energy, but has a long way to go before he is the finished article.
  5. Moyes needs to give Gosling a chance, he is a better player than Big Vic.
  6. Our defence is the reason for our good form of late, today they were strong again. United could only score with a dodgy penalty.
  7. Cahill and Arteta and Osman need a rest; however, this is not going to happen ? there is no-one to repace them.
  8. I can't help but think that Moyes should have rested some players for Wednesday. A defeat to United is less important than a win against Liverpool.
Outside this, I think that if at the beginning of the season at the height of the bleakness, we were offered sixth place with a team playing with confidence, I would have taken it for sure!
Paul Andrew Davey, Ireland     Posted 31/01/2009 at 16:28:26

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John Martin
1   Posted 31/01/2009 at 19:49:38

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I?d say Hibbert was Man of the Match for us today. Defensively they all did the best job they possibly could against a far superior team. Thought our midfield looked too liteweight today.
Ed Ponte
2   Posted 31/01/2009 at 19:48:30

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Disappointing today - no doubt. We never looked like scoring in the second half and didn?t have many ideas going forward.

On the bright side, that?s the end of our shocking run of games and all of our remaining league fixtures apart from Chelsea and Villa away are very winnable (and, hey, after the way Villa burgled 3 points from us at Goodison, you?ve got to fancy us getting something out of that game).

Oh, and lets roll over the a dispirited and disjointed RS on Wednesday after Chelsea put them out of the title race tomorrow.

COYB!
Ian Kearney
3   Posted 31/01/2009 at 19:59:57

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I cant understand how Osman has stayed on the pitch in these games, we were crying out for a bit more pace and Moyes refuses to use Gosling.
Anthony Millington
4   Posted 31/01/2009 at 19:55:19

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Hibbert is good defensively, but not good enough for england, because his ability to get forward let’s him down. Also, Fellaini great energy? Are you having a laugh??!! He just strolls around half the time.

Another point I’d like to make is that it has been proved once again that Leon Osman is not good enough to play against the top teams, because although he works hard he has a very little impact on the game and he provides no outlet down the flank because he is too slow and lightweight. I think if we really want to break into the top four then we need to bring in a better quality player who can pose more of a threat to our opponents and use Osman as more of a squad player.
Den Martell
5   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:04:03

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Osman is awful.
Mike Oates
6   Posted 31/01/2009 at 19:57:57

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A couple of points to state along your lines.

I to think that Big Vic will never develop into an Everton Premier League player ? he has neither the determined drive and commitment to make it. For one so big, he is too easily put off.

I also think that Osman fails to contribute in the "big matches" where we have to dig in and graft. He contributes when we play "lesser teams" but hasn?t the power to overcome the real top Premier League players. I would retain him as a good squad player whereas Big Vic can leave whenever?s appropriate.

Overall today I thought we played well against the world?s best team and if we can only get some forwards back and maybe some pace out wide ? Gosling for now.

My main concern is that Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and to some extent Fellaini (it is his 1st season in Premier League) will soon be completely knackered.
Ian Kearney
7   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:03:24

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Agreed Anthony, the right hand side offered nothing other than predictability going forward.

This is the area I?d like to see targeted in the summer for improvement, if we've got two pennies to rub together that is.
Jimmy Crack
8   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:07:53

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Paul, you forgot about Pienaar!!

Great linking up with Baines on the left, very brave, good eye for a pass and good positioning.

Only problem is his size really
Michael Hunt
9   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:02:27

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Calm down everyone!! Let?s not get carried away and over-react. ManUtd had bigger guns on the pitch, played better than us today and deserved the win (much as I hate that!). The fact is (again, sadly!) is that we lost to the best team in the league, though only by a soft peno.

Whilst I wish we?d not lost, lets not lose sight of reality. With home advantage and a top striker (Yak), but for finger tip from Van der Sar on to the post we?d have beaten them at Goodison. The lads have had a mental run of games against the ?Sky 4? and there is one left (though the Shite are a lesser force than Utd's champion winning side)... we?ve held our own and but for daft mistakes we could have beaten the shite twice and the Arse already in 3 of the 4 games!

Lets put this defeat behind us, and have confidence that getting behind the boys in the Royal Blue will see us back on an unbeaten run, starting with Weds night in the Cup... COYB!

Michael Kidd
10   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:14:00

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Didn?t think the penalty was dodgy ? we would have been clamouring for it had it been at the other end (although at Old Trafford it probably wouldn?t have been given to us). What struck me was how much better United are than the shower from across the park, even though they were not on top form today. Liverpool will also be knackered after a six-pointer against Chelsea tomorrow and (hopefully) deflated too. Hope we roll them over next week.
Martin Paice
11   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:21:16

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We gave a very good account of ourselves today.

Hibbert was awesome!

Roll on Wednesday... Screech is gonna get ya!
Andy Hegan
12   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:16:17

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Watching on TV, is it just me or did Yobo look like he was refusing to do the job he was being asked to do prior to coming on and then promptly being sent to sit back down?
Chris Kelly
13   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:25:36

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Neville, Osman and Anichebe don?t belong on a top 6 team. Period. It shows to Moyes lack of flair and imagination that he continues on with these duds. Neither Osman nor Neville are getting better at this point in their careers. Anichebe can?t get worse.

Moyes has no idea how to coach going forward. We had no original thoughts (aside from Pienaar and Baines occasionally).

Arteta I?m afraid will never take this team by the scruff of the neck and bring them to a new level. Sad. Manuel Fernandes actually did sometimes when he got his game legs going.

Anichebe?s 1 goal in 41 matches (now 42) is beyond comprehensible. I?m embarrassed for him and for us for not having a better option. Surely some of the kids desrve a try. 1 in 42 ? think about that...
Gary Francis
14   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:18:52

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I agree with John Martin, Hibbert was MOTM tonight but Arteta and Moyes?s love child Osman were especially poor and Anichebe's attitude stinks. I?d give the younger lads a go from now on until he bucks up his ideas. Oh, and like I said on one of the posts before the game, if Howard stays on his feet everytime they shoot, we might've sneaked a draw.
Jamie Crowley
15   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:41:52

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Agree with every single point you made Paul except the final one, #8.
With out recent form and what I’d argue as fantastic displays (all of them in different aspects) against top 4 teams I think Moyes was right to run out our best, not look ahead, and have at it against ManUre.

I was actually fairly pleased with us today. Of course winning is the goal, but I thought out effort was there. The result was a fair one. Sure, Mikel’s challenge was NOT a penalty, but surely Lescott’s was.

Onwards... and pray we have enough in the tank to take the RS down.
Mike Jennings
16   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:44:16

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As a side issue I?m worried for the Bolton game next Saturday. The players looked shattered at the end of the day... plus we have a high-energy high-octane derby were GP?s raw energy will keep the players going. Even the fans will be quiet next Saturday, it's so important we stay in the mix in the league and cup but i think we?ll be so flat Saturday.
Carl Warriner
17   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:46:15

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I saw that as well Andy and it did look like he was refusing to follow instructions and was promptly told to sit back down by a clearly annoyed David Moyes and Yobo?s body language didn?t look too good did it.
Jamie Crowley
18   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:47:15

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Few quick other points:

Vic is dead weight. He is utterly useless. A body to fill in with injuries and fatigue.

Our left side was spectacular. Our right side lacking. Hibbo was MOM, but that side can?t attack at all. Hibbo has been stellar defensively, but offers no options or vision attacking.

Howard has been superb. I wish the Gerrard goal in the Cup hadn?t happened, but the man?s human.

Ozzy?s a squad player. A reality of of "smaller" club with no funds to sign someone. But he doesn?t hurt us per se. Just doesn?t offer that quality body to put us over the top against Sky 4 opponents.

We are, as you Brits say, threadbare. It?s scary.

Gosling deserves a run. Vic should be off this summer.

Did anyone see Yobo coming in around the 88th, only to be sent back to the bench by Moyes? What was that? Someone shed some light on that for me.
Ray Robinson
19   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:43:56

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Hibbert was great tonight, granted, but he is never England class. First rate tackles, yes, but ask yourself why he has to make so many in the first instance. That’s a subject for a completely different thread, but take nothing away from him, he played extremely well tonight.

I take the point about Anichebe who is not even Championship standard in my opinion but in his defence, his goals record is something like 11 in 86. Minor point, I know because he still doesn’t cut it.

Overall I thought we played reasonably well tonight. Some of the interplay between Baines and Pienaar in the first half was brilliant - only let down by the final ball in from Baines - which is unusual.

But at least we’ve shown that we can compete against any team and the never say die team spirit is fantastic. Just a bit more quality in the final third and we’d be laughing.
John Talbot
20   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:09:18

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I believe the linesman didn?t let them make the sub then and they never had another chance to get Yobo on.
Tony Partridge
21   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:00:43

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Moyes will be having orgasms the way his defence is performing. He has taken the art to a new level and via this pholosophy keeps us there or thereabouts. Can he ever expect to WIN anything though? Of course not!

Time and time again, he has eschewed the opportunity to sign creative midfielders and we went into this season with only ONE striker with a reputation for scoring goals season on season. Now I know everyone will be putting the blame on Kenwright but the club can only spend what it generates and too much of Moyes?s spending has been on iffy players like Fellaini, Saha, VdM and the like.

If you are happy with sixth ? Moyes is your man.

Matt Kay
22   Posted 31/01/2009 at 20:52:21

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I saw that too, if it's true though he should get a fuck off fine from Moyes
Anthony Dyer
23   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:16:58

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Mike Jennings, that is the danger of playing so many high profile games in such a short space of time. But if the team and the fans want us to challenge for the top 4, then every match is high profile. Look at United they may not always play well but they always perform.

In DM?s defence, all the players that get the most stick (Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe) are players that have cost nothing but have on the whole done a good job. But I agree, if we want to step up, they shouldn?t have regular places in the team.

14 games left and most of them are winnable... but can we impose ourselves and win enough to give ourselves a chance of finishing in 5th place???

Brett Bradshaw
24   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:14:43

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Whilst I agree Big Vic is not up to it (still young tho) I think it’s harsh to write him off completely. Moyes understands the situation and so plays him at RM. If it were Kissock or Gosling starting in midfield we wouldn’t expect the goal so much, as they are not strikers.

He is being played out of position and I think he has been tasked with winning free kicks (as well as the rest of the Everton midfield) as this is seen as our main threat against the big 4.
Denis Byrne
25   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:28:50

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Some good points throughout the post ? and M Hunt's call for perspective is worth consideration ? a lot of ?coulds? and ?shoulds? which ? given our squad (and financial situation) ? need to be taken on board. We should have beaten the Arse, and Chelski, we could have beaten the shite twice and we could have got a result against manure today. Let's continue to get behind the team and the manager in what has been a really tricky and demanding season so far. Bloody well done lads, didn?t get overwhelmed by the european champions who (have mullered everyone else up to now, and) obviously showed you/us a lot respect today, I?m proud of you!
Tom McGrath
26   Posted 31/01/2009 at 21:44:10

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Vic is shite never make a Premier League player, but the player who disappointed me against the so-called top 4 was Arteta... I still haven't seen him have a good game against any of them.
Seamus Murphy
27   Posted 31/01/2009 at 22:02:28

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Ossie was the biggest let down for me today ? far too weak and the touch of a donkey.
Alex Kociuba
28   Posted 31/01/2009 at 22:02:19

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I can’t believe I’m on Toffeeweb with England and Hibbert in the same sentence!
Nick Xenos
29   Posted 31/01/2009 at 22:53:19

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I reckon with 30min to go, Moyes should've pulled Ossie off and given young Gosling a go. At least he would of provided more energy and given the young lad some big match experience. There?s no way he could of done any worse than Osman, that?s for sure!
Nick Xenos
30   Posted 31/01/2009 at 23:05:11

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Oh yeah, and Hibbert was put to the the test time and time again because Osman gave him no support. Credit to Hibbo for doing a great job!
Art Jones
31   Posted 31/01/2009 at 23:28:18

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Considering we?ve just played 4 games against "Sky 4" teams, 3 away from home, and lost only one by a penalty, then I personally am quite pleased with the blues. I?d love it if Moyesy had bought Arshavin, Loric Cana and Moutinho this window but the sad fact is HE CAN?T, so we have to ?make do? and we are successfully.
Stuart Hague
32   Posted 01/02/2009 at 00:03:36

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Well said, Art Jones!
Dick Fearon
33   Posted 31/01/2009 at 23:41:54

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It gives me no pleasure to ask why has it taken long for so many of you to agree with me about Osman. I was not disappointed in his or Arteta's performance. That would imply I expected better. It is a well known fact, except it seems to Moyes, that against good teams, the pair of them never do the business.

Due to his age and lack of experience I am loth to criticise Anichebe?s play but his gormless childish pained facial expressions are ridiculous and a sign of immaturity.

Many employers in high profile occupations provide advice on public relations; I can think of others as well as Vic that might benefit from that kind of thing.

Alan Bond
34   Posted 01/02/2009 at 00:37:05

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Anyone see Moyes's interview on Sky Sports News? He said there's a good chance of something happening before the deadline ?wonder who it could be?
Peter Hall
35   Posted 01/02/2009 at 00:42:50

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Good shout and worth replying point by point:

1. For me, Anichebe has lost the plot. Last year he was using his youth, energy and physique to try to make a mark. Now he seems to think he deserves it just by coming on the pitch and can get decisions on a 50/50 with the likes of Ferdinand just by posturing at the ref. Like those guys know nothing! If he was playing against Jagielka he wouldn?t get a kick. His moment came and he wasn?t up to it.

2. Tony Hibbert ? I thought he had been demoted to Mr squad reserve man ? and his moment came. Unlike Anichebe, he took his chance and has been consistently terrific as a defender ? but that is because we?ve played the best teams since he has come in. Not England because he doesn?t offer enough going forward, but he?s now persuaded me that he belongs in our squad for years to come. And yes, MOM today.

3. Yes, Howard was and has been excellent ? but I think I could score a penalty against him. Ronaldo knew Howard would sell himself if he kept calm. He commits himself too soon; the best keepers don?t guess, they let the kicker guess.

4. Fellaini has disappointed in both games since he came back ? is he frightened of yellow cards? He really hasn?t got that involved.

5. I?d try anyone ahead of Anichebe. Especially Gosling. I think Moyes will have learned from today. By the way, Pienaar is something of a problem to me in terms of decision making, obviously not in terms of commitment. In extra time against Arsenal we had a break , Pienaar got the ball in space on the left of the halfway line. Only big Vic ahead on the edge of the pen area. He tried a pass to him. Vic went down screaming as usual and Arsenal went up the other end and equalised. Today Giggs got the ball in similar areas in the last few minutes several times. He did the opposite ? even with Ronaldo and Tevez to pass to ? he made sure they kept it. Pienaar often makes awful decisions that open us up.

6. Defence were terrific, and while Baines got some whinges from the commentators for his crossing, he got into more good attacking situations than any Man U defender. I watched Bridge earlier today ? what a load of crap compared to Baines ? though Baines has something to learn.

7. Osman is too weak and slow to play game after game against top opponents. They just brush him aside. Against that, it?s been his best season for me, but I?d have him on the bench as often as starting ? if I had an alternative.
8. Totally disagree here. Try and do your best in the next game and deal with the game after next when you get there. Don?t bring fat waiter tactics here mate. A draw at Man U would have completed four unbeaten in the Prem against the Sky 4 in 5 weeks, and if that isn?t progress...

And ?outside this?, I posted in October saying that we are nailed on for sixth.

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/november.asp (but I sent it in October)

And we are.

Tony Doran
36   Posted 01/02/2009 at 00:34:22

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Big Vic is Championship at best. I think Pienaar and Osman are very wasteful in the last 3rd. STOP!!!!!

I?ve just thought we all know we have some problems and where we are going wrong but we?ve got no cash so enough said.

One thing though did you see Fergie going on about our talented young players on long contracts. If Moyes could just manage to pull 3-4 more rabbits out the hat but he needs to dive into the Goodison slush fund and with his track record, he won't need much, so come on Kenwright.

John Charles
37   Posted 01/02/2009 at 00:53:00

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Peter Hall.

Number 3. Utter bollocks lad, if you've ever faced a penalty kick against a professional footballer as a professional football you will know that for the overwhelming majority of the time the ball goes down the sides and if you wait to see which way it goes the ball will be past you.

Also, even if you do try and wait to see which way it goes, top class players like Ronaldo disguise it and send you the wrong way.

Everything else I do not despute, but I just thought I would let you know you were talking shite on Number 3 if that's okay lad.

Let's kick the kopites the length and breadth of Goodison now in the week...
Andy Hegan
38   Posted 01/02/2009 at 01:02:50

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Carl and Matt, well spotted, I?m glad someone else is paying attention. If so, could it also be that you think Arteta and Pienaar are vastly overrated (forgive me but I just think that giving the ball away and running up blind alleys is wrong)?

John Talbot, the referee just afterwards asked the bench if they wanted to make a substitution when Man U had a free kick but was told no. Perhaps you were putting the kettle on?

Paul Burns
39   Posted 01/02/2009 at 01:58:40

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FFS - We have just played the best team in the world after playing the 3 tough ganes against the Redshite and Gunners and you all still critisise the squad and individuals.... If they all played fuckin brilliant every week we would have a team full of England Internationals...

Ozzzie is a great player who doesn?t let us down, Hibbert has always been top notch at defending ? although average going forward but he is not paid to score 12 a season. Fellaini covered for Artetea who for once had a very poor game and didn?t look interested.

So hopefully they will all be bang up for it against the Redshite on Wednesday and give the Fat Spanish Waiter all he deserves - the SACK....

Alex Humphries-French
40   Posted 01/02/2009 at 02:12:30

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I don't know if anyone has noticed but going forward Pienaar loses the ball every time. That never used to happen. Instead, he passes it back. He also used to get past players but I have noticed that, as soon as he sees a defender in front of him, it's like he's in front of a brick wall. Why doesn't he go forward and try and get past them!! It irritates me!
Ped Pearl
41   Posted 01/02/2009 at 02:41:26

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Perhaps a few of you have forgotten Arteta, Fellaini, Cahill and perhaps a few others have been carrying injuries. They have played a lot of games over the last 2 weeks. Well done I say. Effort and spirit second to none! (dont suppose my wish of seeing Andy VDM on the right pounding crosses in for Fella/Cahill is about to come true for wednesday is it).
Derek Thomas
42   Posted 01/02/2009 at 03:23:13

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John Charles; au contraire, Peter is right, Ronaldo’s ’ Aldridge shuffle ’ is hardly new. The keeper is there because ( amongst other reasons) of his reflexes, so wait and use them.

Some bloke did a study of 1500 PK’s as viewed from behind the goal and 95% of them were predictable. there is a window of opportunity between the kicker finally committing and actually taking the kick, this is where the reflex part comes in ( aka backing yourself )

When the none kicking foot ( left )is placed down, the direction it is pointing, straight at the keeper or at an angle somewhere towards the keepers right post, means that almost invariably the ball will go to the keepers right....to test this yourself try kicking a ball at the keepers right post with your foot pointing toward the keepers left post. The feet, the legs, the hips and hence the whole torso is pointing the wrong way.

Use the none kicking foot Tim Skywalker, use the foot.
Mike Gaynes
43   Posted 01/02/2009 at 04:17:14

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Can?t believe this is the same board that was skinning Hibbert alive the past few weeks, and now is touting him for England? No way, but he plays his best in the biggest games against the best talent ? last year as well as this year. The man is solid. I trust we?ve seen the last of the criticism. But I doubt it.

Definitely agree that Gosling deserves a run out on the right in place of the worn-out Ossie, but there?s another solution ? Big Vic may be totally useless up front, but he has shown well on the occasions he?s been used wide. He likes having room to run. Worth a try.

And I?m sorry to say I disagree on Baines... I?ve been his biggest booster, but his crossing today was horrendous. Got free four times at the byline, served four ugly balls right to the defenders. Loved his interplay with Pienaar... let?s keep that going.
Paul Davey
44   Posted 01/02/2009 at 05:10:15

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All great posts today. Toffee supporters are a learned bunch. This is why I love ToffeeWeb so much. Thank you all. COYB
Tony Cheek
45   Posted 01/02/2009 at 03:21:40

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After watching the last four games, I am absolutely baffled as to why, when we have so many players injured, that Moyes has not included Leon Osman in the squad... has he been sold?
Stephen Stuart
46   Posted 01/02/2009 at 09:49:52

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Funny all these comments about individual players. The one thing that links them all is MOYES. Moyes buys them, Moyes trains them, Moyes instills the craft of defend or die, Moyes is the culprit but that?s okay coz the lads did well ? even though they lost ? and they don?t have an attack... indeed, don?t KNOW how to attack ? or score ? or play decent, consistent football.

The mind boggles......
Colin Potter
47   Posted 01/02/2009 at 09:29:23

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John Charles, It's you that is talking utter Shite, if Howard had waited that split second, he could have saved that penalty, instead he chose to look a tosser.
ian doyle
48   Posted 01/02/2009 at 09:55:24

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funny thing is about anichebe he looks like he cant be arsed running,you wanna see the speed of him to his car when everyone is waiting for his autograph.(sell to norwich or someone like that).
colin potter
49   Posted 01/02/2009 at 09:29:23

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John Charles, Its you that is talking utter Shite, if Howerd had waited that split second, he could have saved that penalty, instead he chose to look a tosser
Ray Robinson
50   Posted 01/02/2009 at 10:46:21

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Colin Potter. if Howard had waited a split second, Ronaldo would have taken a different penalty. You would then have criticised Howard for not diving!
James McCarthy
51   Posted 01/02/2009 at 10:53:41

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At the Korea/Japan World Cup, an unusually large number of games were decided on penalty shoot outs. In each case, had the keeper stood his ground several shots were within easy reach. This was pointed out to two ex-international keepers and both agreed that in a shootout situation a keeper who reads the shot would have a better chance of making a save.
The studio anchor man asked why then do keepers always dive. The ex- keepers looking slightly embarrassed muttered something along the lines of it being in a keepers instinct.
Ray Robinson
52   Posted 01/02/2009 at 11:49:12

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So if we get to a penalty shootout on Wednesday (Heaven forbid!), you’re advocating that Howard stands upright in the middle of the goal for all 5 pens! Don’t think so!
Tony Waring
53   Posted 01/02/2009 at 12:48:25

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Blimey James they must have big bloody public loos in Korea and Japan if they can actually play football in them! Come to think of it where do they put the spectators?
Micky Norman
54   Posted 01/02/2009 at 13:51:15

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In the stalls
Jim Slade
55   Posted 01/02/2009 at 14:38:48

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Nick Xenos ? you said Moyes should have pulled Osman off with 30 mins to go. I don't see how this would have changed the result. All it would have done would be to provide some needed relief to Osman but created an awkward spectacle for the crowd close to the dugout. Highly inappropriate suggestion I feel.
Dave Wilson
56   Posted 01/02/2009 at 15:37:47

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Chris Kelly, Anichebe has started 4 games in the prem this season, three of them have been as right sided midfiled player.

That's a fact.
Jason Lam
57   Posted 02/02/2009 at 01:30:08

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Great technical discussion. Derek Thomas, I agree to an extent but the better peno takers can also ’flick’ the ball in the opposite direction. Usually the case is when a right footer player aims for the goalie’s left corner, in the last moment, flick the ball and hit in the opposite (goalie’s right corner) direction with in the inside of the foot. Romario comes to mind with this technique. Other players like Le Tissier could actually wait for the goalie to commit and then decide which direction to place the shot, all in a smooth run-up to the ball.

Conversely, the germans prove that 95% of the time the peno taker will score. The sheer speed of the shot, together with accuracy and conviction, leaves it near impossible to save. It’s all in the mind, and going through the structure routine of composing yourself, filtering out all emotions and the crowd.

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