The Mail Bag
Refs, Reds and Cards
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David Moyes was quite right to make his views about refereeing known today.
There can hardly be an Evertonian who didn't see the incidents he referred to as he did, but very importantly, the English football audience saw what happened to Chelsea last Sunday. No need to go into details, but a visiting player was sent off for a foul committed by a home player. Another home player escaped any caution for a studs-up challenge minutes before.
Significantly, that red card was rescinded today. Referees know that their favour of the dark side is under national scrutiny.
Fellaini will no doubt get booked for a non-professional hair style, but otherwise let us hope that the officials will be on their best behaviour. Moyes's comments might help.
Keith Glazzard, Posted 03/02/2009 at 19:48:21
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The judge at Gerrard's trail is Mark Clattenburg, so the DJ will get ten years.
I have heard that the DJ might go down for assaulting Gerrard?s Elbow and Knuckles. And as apology Liverpool are going to be awarded 6 points by the Premier League for any confusion.
Keith, what about Boswinga?s studs in the back of Benyauon (don?t know how you spell it) right in front of the linesman who done nothing. The FA have also said they won?t be taking it any further. So the shite could argue that point in their favour.
Good psychology from Moyes, putting pressure on the ref. It’s not nice, but Davey is now beginning to learn a bit of what it takes to play with the big boys. He knows that Carragher and Gerrard will attempt to ref the game again tonight, so he needs to get his retaliation in first. Good stuff.
Agree with you Brian the Boswinga foul was a straight red but Riley was a shithouse who lost the game by not imposing himself as the man in charge and not Stevie G, the FA (should be called sweet FA) used to use video evidence to bring players who escaped punishment on the pitch for misdemeanours into disrepute. They have dropped this but god knows how many fines and potential point deductions most teams including the overly protected Sky three plus RS should be looking at.
Recent revelations on Twattentburk have proven what most blues have known since his derby match, he’s bent as a nine bob note but was hailed as one the elite pro referees the clubs are expected to show respect to. As far as rescinding the red card shown to Lampard does that make up for the three points given on a plate to the RS? The game looked to be a stalemate draw and that should have been the right result so rescinding the red card still hasn’t fixed the result.
Recent revelations on Twattentburk have proven what most blues have known since his derby match, he’s bent as a nine bob note but was hailed as one the elite pro referees the clubs are expected to show respect to. As far as rescinding the red card shown to Lampard does that make up for the three points given on a plate to the RS? The game looked to be a stalemate draw and that should have been the right result so rescinding the red card still hasn’t fixed the result.
When Gerrard starts whinging to the ref as soon as the game starts, Neville has to tell the ref "You're running this game ? not that fucking cheat!"
Interesting to see from a Guardian blog the other day how many fans of how many clubs now hate Gerrard as the hypocritical cheat that he is. Even if Lineker / Hansen / Lawrenson / Gray et al continue to behave as if the sun shines out of his arse, it appears that the wider public now have his number. His behaviour in Southport is actually completely in character with his behaviour on the pitch.
Even Lampard now looks like a model professional in comparison. Just imagine if Stevie G (who committed a worse offence than Lampard’s moments earlier) had been red carded? Walking off in a dignified manner... I don’t think so!
Even Lampard now looks like a model professional in comparison. Just imagine if Stevie G (who committed a worse offence than Lampard’s moments earlier) had been red carded? Walking off in a dignified manner... I don’t think so!
Neil, >Couldn?t agree with you more mate great to see Davey highlighting this and attempting to get into the refs/rafas psyche especially after the Lampard incident and subsequent rescinding of the card, perfect timing.
Gary, I think you?re right about Neville needing to do his bit more as well although can?t see it being too beneficial after the event and SteG has worked his amulet of deception.
Gary, I think you?re right about Neville needing to do his bit more as well although can?t see it being too beneficial after the event and SteG has worked his amulet of deception.
Regarding Boswinga’s studs in Benayoun’s backside last Sunday, the linesman did flag for a foul immediately, but Old Ma Riley chose to ignore him! He appeared to have a clear view of the incident, but even if not, he should have consulted the linesman to check why he was flagging. It was clearly a red card offence.
This was seriously poor reffing in the "completely lost the plot/bottle" mode. At that point, Riley simply looked as though he’d had enough and did not want to have to send off another Chelsea player, knowing perhaps that he had wrongly dismissed Lampard.
I would not be surprised if Riley was "rested" for a week or two.
This was seriously poor reffing in the "completely lost the plot/bottle" mode. At that point, Riley simply looked as though he’d had enough and did not want to have to send off another Chelsea player, knowing perhaps that he had wrongly dismissed Lampard.
I would not be surprised if Riley was "rested" for a week or two.
Riley couldn’t get his red card out fast enough. He’s yet another ref who is starstruck every time he gets close to "Stevie G" and the rest of the shite.
As for linesmen, how many times do we see a ball go out for a clear throw in for a team, yet the linesman has to look to the ref before he can give it?
With Alan Wiley reffing tonight I can’t see things improving. Remember the Ferguson "Watch him" comments?
As for linesmen, how many times do we see a ball go out for a clear throw in for a team, yet the linesman has to look to the ref before he can give it?
With Alan Wiley reffing tonight I can’t see things improving. Remember the Ferguson "Watch him" comments?
Brian - you’re right about the incident of course, but Riley bottled a second red. As Gavin points out, the damage leading to 3 points was already done. The FA also bottled Alonso’s studs-up contact with Lampard.
Neil - I saw the Guardian blog and got the same impression as you: Stevie GBH is no national treasure. And did you know that Frank Lampard, thanks to his private education, has a GCSE A* in Latin.
Anyway, sod all that - COYB and stuff em tonight!
Neil - I saw the Guardian blog and got the same impression as you: Stevie GBH is no national treasure. And did you know that Frank Lampard, thanks to his private education, has a GCSE A* in Latin.
Anyway, sod all that - COYB and stuff em tonight!
When I saw that Wiley, was to take charge tonight, my heart sank. Besides the Ferguson incident many years ago, he was the official when Andy Johnson had the goal diallowed at Blackburn, when Vaughan clearly played him on, and also this season he was the idiot who refused the clear penalty at Stoke and sent Moyes to the stand for complaining to the 4th official.
Just one last thing: he had the RS when they played Hull at Anfield, and gave to RS a very dubious goal after the Hull centre half was clearly fouled in the build up. So look out tonight, I am dreading it. There are many more but I would fill the screen.
The thing that upset me last weekend, was Delap got sent off (rightly) for booting the ball into SWP when he was on the ground, yet Gerrard did EXACTLY the same thing to a Chelsea player and Mike Reily did nothing other than tell him off like a naughty kid in a playground!
I was astonished, and even more astonished that it hasnt been mentioned anywhere by anyone.
RS bias is disgusting and DOES exist outside of the Evertonians obvious dislike for them. You ask anyone who supports any other team and they all agree.
Parry carries far too much weight in my opinion and should be stripped of all his duties pertaining to the FA.
As I always say.......tonght, I hope we fuckin smash em!
I was astonished, and even more astonished that it hasnt been mentioned anywhere by anyone.
RS bias is disgusting and DOES exist outside of the Evertonians obvious dislike for them. You ask anyone who supports any other team and they all agree.
Parry carries far too much weight in my opinion and should be stripped of all his duties pertaining to the FA.
As I always say.......tonght, I hope we fuckin smash em!
While I have come to agree that the so called top 4 do get the run of the green, I would imagine that if you were to analyze a lot of games involving the other clubs in the league over the season, there would be plenty of dosgy pens, fouls, etc.
I think it’s got to the point were a lot of fans of clubs that play the top 4, are automatically looking at every decision that is given against them, and if was a dodgy one ( even if there was only one given all game ) they then start calling it biased refereeing.
We have had our fair share of dodgy decisions go our way over the years, even in the last 2 games against the shite, there were free kicks given in our favour, that even I thought were harsh.
If the shite were to get a bang on pen tonight from the ref, we would still come on here, complaining about the decision. The example being against the Mancs, it was a deffo pen by Arteta, he knew what he was doing when he stuck his leg out, but we still had fans come on here hurling abuse at the ref. Fans complained about the lescott incident, but failed to mention the one that Carrick could have easily been given.
I reckon we just need to get over it, and enjoy the game.
I think it’s got to the point were a lot of fans of clubs that play the top 4, are automatically looking at every decision that is given against them, and if was a dodgy one ( even if there was only one given all game ) they then start calling it biased refereeing.
We have had our fair share of dodgy decisions go our way over the years, even in the last 2 games against the shite, there were free kicks given in our favour, that even I thought were harsh.
If the shite were to get a bang on pen tonight from the ref, we would still come on here, complaining about the decision. The example being against the Mancs, it was a deffo pen by Arteta, he knew what he was doing when he stuck his leg out, but we still had fans come on here hurling abuse at the ref. Fans complained about the lescott incident, but failed to mention the one that Carrick could have easily been given.
I reckon we just need to get over it, and enjoy the game.
Brian,
Of course you’re right, people will watch the Big 3 and Liverpool and claim that all sorts of decisions that go against them are dubious, but, come on, we’ve not had the rub of the green in many important cases against Liverpool. Sure, you can point at a couple of dubious free kicks or decisions that go our way on the half way line but when it comes to match altering decisions we do not get our fair share. Going back only as far as Poll and the disallowed Hutchinson goal, McCalister taking a quick free-kick 15 yards closer to goal than where the offence took place, and of course the Clattenberg fiasco. And if you want, I’ll go back to the first of the current sequence of Derby’s in 1962 when we weren’t given a certain penalty. I was there.And let’s not mention the 1 penalty in 71 years at Anfield.
Of course you’re right, people will watch the Big 3 and Liverpool and claim that all sorts of decisions that go against them are dubious, but, come on, we’ve not had the rub of the green in many important cases against Liverpool. Sure, you can point at a couple of dubious free kicks or decisions that go our way on the half way line but when it comes to match altering decisions we do not get our fair share. Going back only as far as Poll and the disallowed Hutchinson goal, McCalister taking a quick free-kick 15 yards closer to goal than where the offence took place, and of course the Clattenberg fiasco. And if you want, I’ll go back to the first of the current sequence of Derby’s in 1962 when we weren’t given a certain penalty. I was there.And let’s not mention the 1 penalty in 71 years at Anfield.
Brian Waring, I am curious to know what your take is on Ferdinands wrestling of Lescott and when Carragher did the same thing.
In my opinion the ref in each case was incompetent, blind or biased.
What do you think the ref would have done had it happened to Stevie.
It really is time that Referees faced post match interviews.
They are well paid for 90 minutes work. They are supposed to uphold the written down laws of the game.
They could enlighten the paying public on how the reached important decisions.
If the are not capable of that how in hells name can they be trusted with a whistle?
In my opinion the ref in each case was incompetent, blind or biased.
What do you think the ref would have done had it happened to Stevie.
It really is time that Referees faced post match interviews.
They are well paid for 90 minutes work. They are supposed to uphold the written down laws of the game.
They could enlighten the paying public on how the reached important decisions.
If the are not capable of that how in hells name can they be trusted with a whistle?
While I agree with you to an extent Ray, I just think it has got to a point ,were it is now becoming a fixation amongst fans.
I can just imagine some fans actually just focusing on the refs performance, against the top teams,instead of their own sides.
I bet you tonight, that if everything ( I know, as if ) goes our way, when we win,no-one will be having a go at the ref after the game.
I can just imagine some fans actually just focusing on the refs performance, against the top teams,instead of their own sides.
I bet you tonight, that if everything ( I know, as if ) goes our way, when we win,no-one will be having a go at the ref after the game.
In a recent Guardian article about canny managers dealing with refs, they told a story of a French manager of long standing who made a point of asking the ref could he inspect the ball before a game, which apparently a manager is entitled to do ? thus giving him a chance for a quick word with the ref. Moyes would only have to say "Nice to see you in charge Mr Wiley, the last two games we had Steven Gerrard........" Wiley would get the message.
Dick, the Carragher one on Lescott was a bang on penalty, the Ferdinand one, because I am biased, I would say it was a pen. But, it was one of them, you probalby have seen plenty given, but also plenty not given. I reckon what made the refs mind up, was that Lescott did go to ground a little to easy. I also think that was the reason Carricks shout was not given, he went down to easy.
I agree referee’s should be made to give an explanation for a decision, especially the big ones, Lampard comes to mind. It was okay Riley apologising after the game, but it lost Chelsea the game. I agreed with Andy Gray, who reckons Riley never really had a good sight of it, and went on the reaction of the shite players.
At the end of the day we shall see tonight.
I agree referee’s should be made to give an explanation for a decision, especially the big ones, Lampard comes to mind. It was okay Riley apologising after the game, but it lost Chelsea the game. I agreed with Andy Gray, who reckons Riley never really had a good sight of it, and went on the reaction of the shite players.
At the end of the day we shall see tonight.
What’s happening to refs now is very like what happens in a host of other contexts - ’the regulators taken over by the industustries they are supposed to regulate’ (whether it be financial services, telecoms, pharmaceuticals or whatever).
Tony Mowbray had it spot on last week - the refs have become over-familiar with the top clubs and their players, and now lack the distance and authority to ’regulate’ them effectively. Like regulators the world over, they have become seduced by the glamour of ’Stevie’, ’Wayne’, and ’JT’ - and become part of the show rather than the stern and impartial referees that they should be.
Since they are handsomely paid now, to some extent they wouldn’t be human if they weren’t looking to make sure that SAF, Rafa and Arsene weren’t getting them into trouble.
I think these are the factors which are causing all the trouble - not that refs have suddenly got worse. Dick, I would actually be inclined to do the opposite of drawing the refs further into the media circus. I would instead institute a regime where they tell players in advance that they will yellow card anyone who attempts any form of intimidation on the field of play. And I think that actually the FA should tell managers (including our Davey) that there are clear and defined procedures for complaining about referees, and random pre and post match comments will be dealt with severely (perhaps even a ’booking’ system for managers leading eventually to the docking of points - fines are meaningless). Not sure about all this, but the present situation is damaging the game.
Tony Mowbray had it spot on last week - the refs have become over-familiar with the top clubs and their players, and now lack the distance and authority to ’regulate’ them effectively. Like regulators the world over, they have become seduced by the glamour of ’Stevie’, ’Wayne’, and ’JT’ - and become part of the show rather than the stern and impartial referees that they should be.
Since they are handsomely paid now, to some extent they wouldn’t be human if they weren’t looking to make sure that SAF, Rafa and Arsene weren’t getting them into trouble.
I think these are the factors which are causing all the trouble - not that refs have suddenly got worse. Dick, I would actually be inclined to do the opposite of drawing the refs further into the media circus. I would instead institute a regime where they tell players in advance that they will yellow card anyone who attempts any form of intimidation on the field of play. And I think that actually the FA should tell managers (including our Davey) that there are clear and defined procedures for complaining about referees, and random pre and post match comments will be dealt with severely (perhaps even a ’booking’ system for managers leading eventually to the docking of points - fines are meaningless). Not sure about all this, but the present situation is damaging the game.
Off to bed now, up early for the kick off at 5am our time.
I don’t have Setanta so will scour the internet for news.
Any suggestions?
Is radio Merseyside broadcasting the game?
Wish I was in my old Gwladys St speck.
I don’t have Setanta so will scour the internet for news.
Any suggestions?
Is radio Merseyside broadcasting the game?
Wish I was in my old Gwladys St speck.
Do what rugby union does - if you chirp the ref, then the ref gives the other side ten extra yards.
Neil Pearse- on the face of it what you say about managers going through channels to complain about refs is fair. Then you look at some of the decisions that a fat, corrupt FA takes or fail to take - the whole Bonsinga saga from Sunday for example- and you can see why managers get frustrated and speak out. When a ref’s decision can cost a club millions and adversely effect a clubs season- think Collina- then a manager or club has every right to point that up. It serves notice to officials that they are being scrutinized and that a standard is being applied. It’s also a tactic- one that has worked for SAF & Wenger for years.
Don’t disagree Paul - ultimately the refs are afraid of the ’top’ managers and players because the FA is afraid of the ’top’ managers and players.
So there has to be more of a level playing field: clubs can appeal decisions, and they can be overturned, but they are the same procedures for everybody - not SAF shooting his mouth off after a game. Perhaps also clubs should be allowed a set number of appeals in a year (six max maybe), so that they can’t just constantly intimidate and hassle the FA.
And Gerrard and Terry should each be told that if they ever run up threateningly to a referee again... they will shot by a crack SAS marksman in the stands. That might stop them.
So there has to be more of a level playing field: clubs can appeal decisions, and they can be overturned, but they are the same procedures for everybody - not SAF shooting his mouth off after a game. Perhaps also clubs should be allowed a set number of appeals in a year (six max maybe), so that they can’t just constantly intimidate and hassle the FA.
And Gerrard and Terry should each be told that if they ever run up threateningly to a referee again... they will shot by a crack SAS marksman in the stands. That might stop them.
There was one thing that didn’t suprise me this week. How quick Lampards red card was ditched. It took 2 days.
Brian Waring
Brian,I suppose fans HAVE begun to see fault in everything some refs do, but it has started BECAUSE so many decisions have not gone their (or our) way. If things are pretty much equal in a refs decision making most people will adopt the " these things even themselves out over a season" stance but when things go against you against the same "celebrity" opposition to the extent that they have with us and the Shite you have to come to the conclusion that the ref has been swayed, got at, influenced or is just plain bent.
I agree that refs should be made to have a press conference after each game whereby they can explain their decision and if necessary, rescind it there and then. After all, some refs so enjoy their moment of fame that they would positively leap at the chance.Think Poll. He loved the limelight.....as did Clive Thomas. Funny, both courted controversy and both brought books out as soon as they retired...you don’t think they were deliberately controversial do you? Or am I an old cynic.
Brian,I suppose fans HAVE begun to see fault in everything some refs do, but it has started BECAUSE so many decisions have not gone their (or our) way. If things are pretty much equal in a refs decision making most people will adopt the " these things even themselves out over a season" stance but when things go against you against the same "celebrity" opposition to the extent that they have with us and the Shite you have to come to the conclusion that the ref has been swayed, got at, influenced or is just plain bent.
I agree that refs should be made to have a press conference after each game whereby they can explain their decision and if necessary, rescind it there and then. After all, some refs so enjoy their moment of fame that they would positively leap at the chance.Think Poll. He loved the limelight.....as did Clive Thomas. Funny, both courted controversy and both brought books out as soon as they retired...you don’t think they were deliberately controversial do you? Or am I an old cynic.
Fitter, faster, stronger.....that’s the problem. Players are fitter, faster, stronger than players a generation ago, and we still have the imperial referee with his two assistants calling a match. They cannot see everything anymore and the way the rules are written the assistants are there to cal the offside violationas and then fouls are next down the list...way down the list. So, you have a pairof eyes to watch these fitter, faster, stronger players. Look at the mistakes made.
Refs need help. They can’t keep up with it all. Wouldn’t fancy it myself.
My plan is a simple one: The ref is linked to a 4th Official in the stand who is well away from the Managers or fans. The 4th official is watching on tv screens ( this is top fight footy, not lower leagues by the way ) and if he thinks the ref has made a mistake he can ask the referee if he wants to have a second look. The referee can either accept or decline.
If he accepts he views the tv screens whiuch are placed pitchside but on the opposite side to the two Managers. He can then quickly decide if he wishes to change his mind. He can also look with the linesman if he wishes for another opinion.
The ref retains overall control, but has help if he is either offered it or can request it if he is not totally sure.
Only to be used on the ’big’ decisions, not for all of them so as to not interrupt the flow of the game. Also goal line cameras are a must as in cricket and tennis whilst similar rules to rugby should be introduced to prevent players mnouthing off at referees.
My plan is a simple one: The ref is linked to a 4th Official in the stand who is well away from the Managers or fans. The 4th official is watching on tv screens ( this is top fight footy, not lower leagues by the way ) and if he thinks the ref has made a mistake he can ask the referee if he wants to have a second look. The referee can either accept or decline.
If he accepts he views the tv screens whiuch are placed pitchside but on the opposite side to the two Managers. He can then quickly decide if he wishes to change his mind. He can also look with the linesman if he wishes for another opinion.
The ref retains overall control, but has help if he is either offered it or can request it if he is not totally sure.
Only to be used on the ’big’ decisions, not for all of them so as to not interrupt the flow of the game. Also goal line cameras are a must as in cricket and tennis whilst similar rules to rugby should be introduced to prevent players mnouthing off at referees.
Brian, next you’ll be saying "ah well these things even out over a season".
Brian next thing you'll be saying "I?m an Evertonian"
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1 Posted 04/02/2009 at 02:27:31
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Stevie G In his own book tells how to handle referees. I wonder if he can do the same to the judge in his upcoming trial?