The Mail Bag
Laws of the Game, Part 1. Petrov: red card or not?
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It never ceases to amaze me how so many people who earn their living from football (managers, players, journalists and pundits) know so little of the Laws of the Game. You?d think they would make a bit of an effort, but they don?t. They seem to rely on what they think the Laws ought to be, not what they actually are. And when it comes down to it, football is a pretty simple game.
In the wake of our victory over Villa there has been little agreement in interviews, media reports and so on, as to whether Petrov should have been sent off or not. The truth is the referee got it spot on. A whole 45 seconds research produced the following from Fifa?s ?Laws of the Game 2008/2009?:
If the referee applies advantage during an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and a goal is scored directly, despite the opponent?s handling the ball or fouling an opponent, the player cannot be sent off but he may still be cautioned.
And yes, I am a geek with no discernible personality. But I would urge my fellow Blues to have the occasional check on the Laws. That way we can add technical superiority to the moral superiority that we already have in being Evertonians.
Ben Dyson, Posted 16/02/2009 at 16:47:12
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Cahill?s booking for only saying he was being pushed was ludicrous, as agreed by the Villa fans I took the game in with. We now lose him for the away match at the skunks.
So don?t have a go at players, managers and fans for not knowing the laws when clearly a Premier League referee doesn?t!
But this rule clears things up as a goal was scored, even though the ref had the option to blow for a penalty (the goal was scored so quickly after the incident I guess)... though I do feel the ref?s sight lines were blocked by a player, so I don?t think he saw it.
Did anyone notice however that every time a Villa player fouled a blue, but we were given the advatage, the ref never spoke to the Villa player. Maybe, he thought, o my god, Villa are 3rd in the Premier League and we can?t have a team outside the ?big? 4 winning the game.
Maybe its just me?
If you read my post again you will see that I am referring to a different Law; Law 12 in fact. This is the law that encompasses misconduct that also includes unsporting behaviour. A deliberate handball is an example of unsporting behaviour and is punishable by a yellow card not red.
However, in this case clearly the referee used discretion to over-rule the laws and not punish the unsporting behaviour with a yellow card ? or was he just incompetent!!
I know which one I feel was the case!
As he didn?t do what he should have done ? booked him for an offence which led to a goal ? would he have taken the red card out? We will never know. I go along with the view that says he played advantage to us instead of penalising and booking them.
Anyway, 3-1 says enough and their manager only heaps scorn on himself by claiming that they were unlucky. They were lucky ? very lucky ? to end the game with eleven players.
Nevermind hey, we knocked the mighty Aston Villa out anyway and with a 17-year-old centre-mid and 19-year-old Dan Gosling in our midfield too! Maybe the pundits should think again before they carry on with how brilliant Aston Villa are!
Was it not only two seasons ago (or maybe three) when a referee whose name I can’t recall (he retired that season) sent Turner off against Blackburn for handling the ball outside of the area and swore blind he had no alternative when actually he did?
Whether or not the referee got it right on Sunday is neither here nor there. The problem is the standard of refereeing today leaves me unsure whether he got it right because he knew the rule or because he was soddin’ incompetent.
He certainly made quite a few dodgy decisions on Sunday although admittedly none that were fundamental to the result. And to be fair I have seen much worse than him!
As you can probably guess, I don’t have a lot of faith in referees these days! And I think I have good reason. Being a blue I have many frustrating memories, from Thomas to Clattenberg!
It seems the referee then either gives the goal and Petrov gets away with it and stays on the pitch or he rules out the goal sends Petrov off and gives a penalty!
Or is that covered by some other rule?
After we scored, Petrov should have been sent off. Then we should have had a penalty for the hand ball. Two-nil to the blues!
;)
A bloke I work with (who knows nothing about football), helps with the ground staff at Villa. He said to me way before the game at the weekend that Ashley Young would be amazing if he didn?t keep diving? trust me, if he can see it, it must be bad!!
I had the miss-fortune to witness the Derby v Manure game (it was nearly as painful as watching the refereeing in that Wales vs. England egg chasers game!). Did anyone else see the disgraceful way Sir Alex went at the 4th official when Ronaldo?s goal was disallowed?
That actually turned out to be brilliant refereeing, only for the linesman to bottle it for the Gibson goal. If it was Moyes throwing a tantrum like that, he would have been sent to the stand. It seems to prove that if you?re fashionable, the ref WILL favour you and all the REAL rules won?t apply anyway.
MON?. oh dear, I had a lot of respect for him before that? sounds like another Spanish waiter in the making!! For the press to be praising him in the same breath as Moyes is an insult.
Just one more little rant? ITV, again, disgusted me, the presenter of the highlights (don?t even want to learn his name!) hardly even gave time for the pundit (can?t remember his name, Robbie Elliot maybe??) to say anything about the Cahill dedication to the bush fires in Australia? well done Timmy!!! My girlfriend is from Melbourne and she cried when she saw him do that, it meant so much to her? nice to see. COYB!!!!
ROTFL.
Wahahahaha....
By the way, I watched only the last 15 minutes of the game on tv here in Shenzhen, I thought the referee was good. Well, I didn’t see the other 75 minutes though.
There were 4 crests on display at the commentator’s desk, one belongs to manure, one belongs to the arse, one belongs to chelski, and guess the last one. It’s the FA’s!!!
As the rule stands, a player is not sent off for handling or stopping a goal-bound shot. He is sent off for the end result - no goal. Applying this rule to the rest of the game makes no sense. Say, for instance, that the ball had not fallen to Rodwell, but to Davies, and he hacks it clear. Penalty, of course. But the logic would then NOT call for a red card. Only in the event that we MISS the penalty would it be a sending off, because punishment is based on the end result, and not the action itself.
Methinks someone ought to change the rules...
So if Petrov became billy the fish, launched himself across the goal, got a hand to it but it still went in (directly), then it's just a yellow card, but if he successfully "saves" the goal and then someone else scores from the clearance then it has been scored indirectly, so it's a red card?
Maybe a better example would be if Petrov had rugby tackled Cahill as he was about to shoot into an open goal, and then when they were both on the floor Rodwell scored, then cleary Petrov had directly prevented a goal scoring opportunity, so shouldn?t he be sent off?
As it was, we stuffed ?em fair and square, 11 against 11 and they can?t have any complaints ? apart from their moaning tosser manager who I?ve never liked.
We?ve just rumbled their particular brand of hoofball ? whack it over the top to a couple of very pacey forwards ? and I hope other teams do the same. We did much the same in ?86 and it worked for a while.
Iguess the reason the referee didn’t blow for a penalty straight away was that he had forgotten that the FA and Premier League had lifted the embargo against giving Everton penalties.
"Advantage should not be applied in situations involving serious foul play unless there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. The referee shall send off the player guilty of serious foul play when the ball is next out of play"
In the case of violent conduct:
"Advantage should not be applied in situations involving violent conduct unless there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. The referee shall send off the player guilty of violent conduct when the ball is next out of play"
You?re spot in. Surely it should be the intent that is punished? What if Rowdell had blasted over the bar ? then would he have been sent off? If so then the fate of the player lies in the hands of the skill of his opponent.
What a crock of shit.
In which case, given it was a deliberate handball to stop a goalscoring opportunity, once the ball was out of play (i.e. the goal was scored) Petrov should have been sent off ? or has deliberate handball, stopping a goalscoring opportunity through serious foul play stopped being so, er, serious. Otherwise, as Dave Robets suggested, what?s to stop one of our players kicking an opponent in the face off the ball when their striker?s through on goal?!
Just to be pedantic of course :)
When Lehman was brought down the Barca chap in the Chumps League final a few years back, instead of the advantage (and goal) being allowed, the ref gave a pen and sent him off. Ruined the game and was a decision at the time I disagreed with. Swings and roundabouts I guess!
Serious foul play is defined as follows:
?A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality
against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in
play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from
the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with
excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty
of serious foul play.?
I think it’s time I started taking those tablets again!
The law is as clear as mud, and whether the ref got it right (as defined by the law) or not, I think ultimately the right result was NOT achieved. In my opinion Petrov blatantly cheated. He illegally (I believe everyone agrees on this point) prevented a goal by using his hand. Cheating, gamesmanship whatever you want to call it, he should be punished. Ok, so we scored anyway, removing the issue of preventing the goal, but as mentioned in earlier posts, Tim Cahill was yellow carded for a deliberate handball with no consideration given to anything other than him handling the ball DELIBERATELY. Yet Petrov sees no such punishment. That is inconsistent and cannot be held up as an example of the rules working well. Even if, as Ben states, the law can be interpreted that way (which I am still to be convinced of) and the referee acted correctly.
IMO Petrov should have received a yellow card which would have either seen him sent off later in the game for a second bookable offence or at the very least stopped him from impacting on the game so much. Alternatively, the referee should have blown instantly, given a penalty and sent him off.
It almost seems like it’s being suggested that he shouldn’t be punished because we scored anyway. I disagree with that opinion.
Regardless of my opinion, I think the overriding point is that the on-going debate on here proves that it is anything but clear cut.
The definition of Serious Foul Play should have definitely meant that Kuyt was sent off in the Clattenberg Derby then....without ANY possible alternative being considered by the referee, for the lunge at Pip?
Curiouser and curiouser. Methinks the rule book should be gone through with a fine tooth comb! Must get myself a copy.
(I thought I was clever the other week being the only one around me at the Fulham game who seemed to know you couldn?t be offside from a throw-in... maybe we all need to go to FA nightschool!)
www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws_of_the_game_0708_10565.pdf
WE WERE DENIED ANOTHER BLOODY PENALTY!
It must be because we’ve been awarded so many recently that we don’t think we need them.
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1 Posted 16/02/2009 at 20:52:44
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He got booked and was lucky to stay on, he had a few fouls that if it was Fellaini, he would've got booked for them.