The Mail Bag
Where is the logic?
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I've defended David Moyes on here on numerous occasions and still believe he is the right man for the job.
However, I have to query the logic in today's starting 11 and subsequent substitutions.
Why split Jags Lescott and Baines up to accomodate Yobo? We know that Jags is a centre half and thats all he is.He cannot play full back.If we were going to tinker it would have been more logical to play Baines LM and push Lescott out LB where we know he can play.
Then we could have put Neville RB where we know(and some of us say its his best position or only position in the absense of Arteta) he can play.
Alternatively, play Gosling or Lars at right which is their natural position.
I know some fans can't stomach Andy van der Meyde but today against 10 men we cried out for somebody to run at them and open them up.
I would also question why Fellaini was put on (and kept on) despite being clearly unfit. It was like playing 10 against 10 except he got in the way most of the time so make that 9 1/2 for us.
I know we dominated the possession and we were missing a number of injured/ineligible players but against 10 men and as poor a team as I've seen all season the 3 points were ours for the taking.
I thought we looked totally unbalanced and lacking any idea once Arteta went off and we didnt seem to have any game plan for playing against 10 men in the second half.
Let's just hope emergency ward 10 isn't too full over the next few weeks.
jay harris, Posted 22/02/2009 at 21:56:08
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Never mind the result, what about Arteta? Having sat through a game that reminded me of two or three seasons ago when to be frank we where a boring team to watch i wonder how we can maintain the results without the fulcum that is Arteta never mind pressing on to the giddy heights of the haloed top 4 or cup success.
We have no one else that can play that role, the artist in the middle that all decent teams have [Petrov, Fabregas, Alonso, etc, etc], I just hope Moyes can find a way.
Re: Selection & substitutions. Moyes's quote after the game on OS:
"I just felt we didn't really flow, we didn't have the rhythm we've had in recent weeks and what I've come to expect. I felt we were patching up, hoping to get the victory. But we didn't have the fluency we've had in recent weeks and months."
Yes we know we lost Mikel. Get well soon, amigo. But regarding flow, rhythm, fluency and patching up :
Selection ?
Hibbert missing ? play Lars. Experienced international right back and according to OS raring to go.
Back four stay solid. So why move Jags to the right to accommodate Yobo? Fighting for places means fighting for your place; centre half for Yobo, right back for Lars. Isn?t that the point? Like for like. Bit of an insult to Lars really, might as well pack his bags, unless he has a secret injury.
Substitutions ?
Mikel ? Moyes has over 5 minutes to make a decision and focus despite the massive blow. He replaces a creative midfielder with another defensive midfielder. Neville goes right, Gosling left and Rodwell has to push up into a creative role. Castillo is way of the pace and is playing a lot of short passes therefore a lot of pressure on young shoulders.
Unless there is a non-footballing issue stopping Andy van der Meyde getting on the pitch then I do not see why he is even on the bench.
Put Andy on for Mikel. Again on the OS Andy is interviewed saying how keen he is to play. Neville drops into holding role, Andy right, Gosling left, swapping wings as and when and Rodwell is still asked to play the more creative role.
But less pressure on Rodwell as he now has outlets on both sides that will not simply give him the ball back but will hold it, pass and move etc.
On the right side we would then have had Lars wanting to make the place his own over-lapping and getting crosses in.
Also Andy getting crosses in and so relieving the pressure on Baines on Gosling to continually get forward. Despite being injured, Fellaini, with enough crosses, plus Jo and Rodwell could have had a chance to nick a goal. The other substitutions had to be done.
Basically I feel the flow, rhythm, fluency and patching up we had to do, was to a point, caused by Moyes himself. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. COYB.
The average age of the team that took the field today was a few days under 25.
This was the youngest ever team sent out by David Moyes and the youngest Everton team for nearly 10 years (Blackburn [a] 10.3.1999 a 2-1 win!) and which contained the likes of Ball and Dunne plus a host of other 20 year olds with only one over 30 in the team.
Well done Everton for getting back to the great youth set up we had in the late 90s - and this time I know we will not lose the generation to other teams.
Having just watched that utter dross against the Bar Codes, I have decided to single out our record signing for his poor performance, not just in this game, but throughout the whole season. A few questions:
Why does he always want so much time on the ball? The guy has no pace and can't take on opposition players so why does he feel the need to keep the ball for so long instead of laying it off for an easy pass. Then, when he loses possession, why does he chase the ref looking for a free kick and not the player who has just robbed him of the ball?
Why does he always go 'over the top' when contesting a tackle? The F.A. are trying to stamp {sorry for the pun} out these tackles yet he seems to do it four or five times a game. One day he is going to be a little late and get himself sent off and seriously injure an opponent. He does need that extra 'bite' in the tackle {like Hibbert} but going over the top of the ball will one day cost us 3 valuable points or even a huge up-coming cup game.
He now has 11 bookings this season and I feel the huge majority are justified and has no-one to blame but himself. I seriously hope that he does improve his performances for the good of the team and my sanity, the only good point is he can't get any worse {touch wood}.
For me, Moyes' decision to buy him for such a huge price has back-fired. To finish on a positive note, he has years left on his contract and with a little fine-tuning, he may be able to make me eat my words. Prove me wrong.
Disappointing but only in the sense that we couldn’t finish (or even create anything to finish) and get the three points we fully deserved...dominance of a game is one thing but it’s worth bugger all in terms of the final placings.
Injuries are reaching boiling point...Anichebe’s injury looks bad (and it was a definite red card especially when viewed from the last angle they showed on the tele...talk about ouch!!), I didn’t see Arteta’s injury but it sounds bad.....I had predicted a 3-1 victory.....with Cahill and Arteta 3-1 was do-able! Today, yes, we were very disjointed.
However, as somebody pointed out...top sic looks relatively safe...........but will that get us into Europe next season?
Injuries are reaching boiling point...Anichebe’s injury looks bad (and it was a definite red card especially when viewed from the last angle they showed on the tele...talk about ouch!!), I didn’t see Arteta’s injury but it sounds bad.....I had predicted a 3-1 victory.....with Cahill and Arteta 3-1 was do-able! Today, yes, we were very disjointed.
However, as somebody pointed out...top sic looks relatively safe...........but will that get us into Europe next season?
I of course meant "top six", not "top sic"!
I do despair at the criticism about Moyes team and tactics.
I do actually question why Jags was at right back - but that is the only one. He must see Lars in training and deem him not ready. How people keep seeing AVDM as our saviour I shall never know - a cameo at the end of games maybe, hat’s it!
I also get the feeling that Moyes was hoping to make no changes - Fellainin was definitely out until we saw him on the pitch, he said that Saha is not ready and would not push him - as for the others, particularly Castillo - not ready at all.
I was at St James park and when Arteta went off it stunned the fans into silence - I felt sick, as did the ’tough’ guy sitting next to me. It must have affected the team - that team spirit they have, one of them was seriously hurt!
I do actually question why Jags was at right back - but that is the only one. He must see Lars in training and deem him not ready. How people keep seeing AVDM as our saviour I shall never know - a cameo at the end of games maybe, hat’s it!
I also get the feeling that Moyes was hoping to make no changes - Fellainin was definitely out until we saw him on the pitch, he said that Saha is not ready and would not push him - as for the others, particularly Castillo - not ready at all.
I was at St James park and when Arteta went off it stunned the fans into silence - I felt sick, as did the ’tough’ guy sitting next to me. It must have affected the team - that team spirit they have, one of them was seriously hurt!
How could any Evertonian be surprised by Moyes decision to bring in Yobo ?
Anyone who’s shown even a passing interest in this team would have known this as soon as Hibbert was booked.
Of course Moyes was going to call upon his most experienced defender .The clean sheet kinda vindicates him anyway does’nt it ?.
We are desperately short of midfield players and strikers, so why the fuck would we take Pip out of there ? why would we move Gosling ?
Lars and Shandy are no where near fit enough for the prem, Lars needs games and Moyes would play himself rather than start with Shandy.
Lets be logical about this, the last thing we need is for Saha to break down again, so his rehab has to be gentle and gradual.
The big fella - although clearly not fit - has to be admired for still being prepared to battle for the cause.
Guys.
Lets face it, we just ran out of players
Anyone who’s shown even a passing interest in this team would have known this as soon as Hibbert was booked.
Of course Moyes was going to call upon his most experienced defender .The clean sheet kinda vindicates him anyway does’nt it ?.
We are desperately short of midfield players and strikers, so why the fuck would we take Pip out of there ? why would we move Gosling ?
Lars and Shandy are no where near fit enough for the prem, Lars needs games and Moyes would play himself rather than start with Shandy.
Lets be logical about this, the last thing we need is for Saha to break down again, so his rehab has to be gentle and gradual.
The big fella - although clearly not fit - has to be admired for still being prepared to battle for the cause.
Guys.
Lets face it, we just ran out of players
Lynn
A very good point, the hole of the travelling support were desperate for news yesterday, I knew nothing, but was asked about 20 times by strangers had I heard anything.
The fans were devastated, the players must have felt the same way, The affect of seeing Arteta carted off cannot be underestimated.
I heard an interview with DM on my way back, even he sounded choked when asked about it
A very good point, the hole of the travelling support were desperate for news yesterday, I knew nothing, but was asked about 20 times by strangers had I heard anything.
The fans were devastated, the players must have felt the same way, The affect of seeing Arteta carted off cannot be underestimated.
I heard an interview with DM on my way back, even he sounded choked when asked about it
Didn’t we keep a clean sheet? Moyes’ selection was totally justified regarding Yobo.
My only criticism was we didn’t get enough men in the box when going forward.
My only criticism was we didn’t get enough men in the box when going forward.
Of course he was going to play Yobo, whom I thought had a very good game.
As for Fellaini & Castillo, I think we all know Moyes well enough by now, to know that neither of them would have played any part in the game had Mickey & Victor not gone off injured. He rarely makes tactical substitutions.
The fact is, the 11 on the picth couldn’t break down a packed defense, because they lacked some creativitiy.
It happens.
It’s another point towards 6th, which I think would be an excellent finish, seeing the start that we made.
As for Fellaini & Castillo, I think we all know Moyes well enough by now, to know that neither of them would have played any part in the game had Mickey & Victor not gone off injured. He rarely makes tactical substitutions.
The fact is, the 11 on the picth couldn’t break down a packed defense, because they lacked some creativitiy.
It happens.
It’s another point towards 6th, which I think would be an excellent finish, seeing the start that we made.
Yawn. Jay I’m glad your not the manager
Reading this, could have swore my son had written this as he said exactly the same thing after the match and that he was going to write to Toffeeweb and state his views and then I saw it wasn?t his name at the bottom. Great minds think alike eh!!
Give the team and the boss a break lads......one bad performance in last 13 or so games speaks volumes of how things are going. Given the injuries, suspensions and misfortune of losing Arteta early we where always going to find this a tough fixture.....it is hard to break down a 10 man brick wall of thugs! Hate to say it but I seriously hope Manure can win this weekend to keep 6th spot a UEFA place!
The decision to blow the whole of his summer budget on Fellaini is at the heart of all Moyes’ problems this season.He spent months talking of the need to ’get numbers in’and then-in a feat of pique over his own contract dispute- spent the lot on a player any student of minor European leagues could have told him was no more than an awkward giant whose booking record was 1 in every 1.3 games!
Supposedly,he felt he needed height and could change the habits of this hulk. Everything we have seen so far indicates he put his money on a loser!
Supposedly,he felt he needed height and could change the habits of this hulk. Everything we have seen so far indicates he put his money on a loser!
I appreciate that yesterday was a clean sheet which is important. But I have to say I thought that was more a result of the Toons lack of creativity than anything else. Guitierrez aside they really lacked the clinical edge today and that is why Moyes decision didn’t backfire totally. I also agree that it was only one bad performance but they were there for the taking and if we could have won it would have kept some of that confidence that had been eroded by the arteta injury. I thought the decision to play Jags at right back was wrong, it would have been more balanced to have played Lars at RB and moved Lescott to LB with Baines at LM. Yes I know that Lars isn’t totally match fit but he did complete 60 mins for Denmark recently so he couldn’t have been that bad! This would have allowed Gosling to play RM which would have at least meant we had some creativity on the wings after we lost it from the middle.
I don’t think he could odds the Castillo substitution because there wasn’t a lot of choice but I couldn’t understand Fella coming on especially since Moyes said to Sky before the game that he wasn’t fit! I also didn’t get taking Gosling off for Saha. Gosling had a good game yesterday and was prepared to run at the Toon players and take them on so unless he had got a knock I just couldn’t understand it. Yes give Saha twenty minutes but I would have taken Jo off because he wasn’t quite with it.
I don’t think he could odds the Castillo substitution because there wasn’t a lot of choice but I couldn’t understand Fella coming on especially since Moyes said to Sky before the game that he wasn’t fit! I also didn’t get taking Gosling off for Saha. Gosling had a good game yesterday and was prepared to run at the Toon players and take them on so unless he had got a knock I just couldn’t understand it. Yes give Saha twenty minutes but I would have taken Jo off because he wasn’t quite with it.
Malcolm
Spot on mate. Fellaini collects another stupid & needless booking, and injury or not looks like he just came out of a pub team. We should cut our losses and get rid, might get £5m (optimistic I know!). If he was injured, then why not play Shandy instead?
On another note, everyone wishes The Spanish Vision well. We’re all on tenterhoooks for news - let’s hope it’s a few weeks out, not a 6 months.
Spot on mate. Fellaini collects another stupid & needless booking, and injury or not looks like he just came out of a pub team. We should cut our losses and get rid, might get £5m (optimistic I know!). If he was injured, then why not play Shandy instead?
On another note, everyone wishes The Spanish Vision well. We’re all on tenterhoooks for news - let’s hope it’s a few weeks out, not a 6 months.
Definately can’t see why AVDM wasn’t put on for Neville for atleast the last 15 mins. How many times did Neville waste a good position with a woeful cross.
Devastated that we have lost "the best little Spaniard" for the rest of the season ... really gutted. Saw a magpie on my lawn yesterday before the game [Newcastle colours!!] and one on its own [ "One for sorrow" as the poem goes].,..... who says these superstitutions don’t come true !!!!
We are now competely up shit creek as Arteta is ruled out for the season. AVDM must play as he is our only creative "fit" player
The expectations have been raised this in the last few years, now we presume we should be beating the likes of Newcastle (even when our squad is reduced to a ’bare bones’ status) and we’re all frustrated that we can’t beat a side with 10 men.
And then some of you have the nerve to blame DM after a result like that yesterday, when its all because of him that we now have such high hopes.
Simple facts are these: our most creative player (bought by Moyes for only 2m!) sustained a terribly unfortunate injury, we have a new lad up front who is low on confidence, a young lad who cant speak english and has a hefty price tag weighing on his shoulders, we were playing against a team who had their premier league status on the line and sometimes its just not your day.
Yes i would’ve loved if we continued our winning ways and blitzed the barcodes 3-0, turning all our possession and dominance into goals. But it wasn’t to be. Look at it this way, its a point more than we got from the same fixture last season!
On the issue of Yobo, i’d also prefer if Jags didn’t play right back, but nobody can question the quality Joey brings to the side. I do feel sorry for Lars not getting a run, but he was pipped to the starting XI by an established vital member of our squad.
I just hope this run of injuries and suspensions doesn’t derail a season which looked dead and buried by september. COYB!
And then some of you have the nerve to blame DM after a result like that yesterday, when its all because of him that we now have such high hopes.
Simple facts are these: our most creative player (bought by Moyes for only 2m!) sustained a terribly unfortunate injury, we have a new lad up front who is low on confidence, a young lad who cant speak english and has a hefty price tag weighing on his shoulders, we were playing against a team who had their premier league status on the line and sometimes its just not your day.
Yes i would’ve loved if we continued our winning ways and blitzed the barcodes 3-0, turning all our possession and dominance into goals. But it wasn’t to be. Look at it this way, its a point more than we got from the same fixture last season!
On the issue of Yobo, i’d also prefer if Jags didn’t play right back, but nobody can question the quality Joey brings to the side. I do feel sorry for Lars not getting a run, but he was pipped to the starting XI by an established vital member of our squad.
I just hope this run of injuries and suspensions doesn’t derail a season which looked dead and buried by september. COYB!
i think with our shortage of fully fit players david moyes may look to switching players around into positions there not happy playing in.against west brom on saturday you may see lescott being asked to either push forward to play left midfield or even push up as emergency forward alongside tim cahill so that moyes can bring hibbo back in at right back,move jags back to centre half and keep yobo in the team as centre half.dan gosling may be asked to play the mickel role as he has a bit more creativaty than either neville or rodwell.lets hope by saturday some of our injured players return as we cant afford to slip up against bottom of the table west brom,would everyone on here except another 0-0 draw?
Are you seriously having a go at Moyes for bringing back in our most experienced defender and moving our most confident defender to right back to cover for Hibbo?
I despair sometimes reading the posts on here. Let’s play Lars....erm why?, he hasn’t played for us but suddenly he’s better than putting an England international at right back, in a position he has played before.
I must have missed the goals that Newcastle scored....hang on the defence worked.
We lost our creative player and therefore any cohesion in the middle, Van Der Meyde is a hasbeen now but don’t let the truth get in the way of a Moyes bashing.
List the players out, HIbbert, Vaughan, Yakubu, Cahill, Arteta, unfit - Saha, Felliani.
We couldn’t beat Newcastle as our forward is lightweight and just coming back from a spell on the subs bench and the main fact is that we were booted all over the pitch yet for some reason Steven Taylor was not booked. The Sunderland game saw the ref point to 3 or 4 places before booking Felliani for a innocuous foul, if the ref did that to Taylor he would have added about 5 minutes time added on.
We were bullied out of the points yesterday and then Fellaini getts booked for pushing back on Butt.
I despair sometimes reading the posts on here. Let’s play Lars....erm why?, he hasn’t played for us but suddenly he’s better than putting an England international at right back, in a position he has played before.
I must have missed the goals that Newcastle scored....hang on the defence worked.
We lost our creative player and therefore any cohesion in the middle, Van Der Meyde is a hasbeen now but don’t let the truth get in the way of a Moyes bashing.
List the players out, HIbbert, Vaughan, Yakubu, Cahill, Arteta, unfit - Saha, Felliani.
We couldn’t beat Newcastle as our forward is lightweight and just coming back from a spell on the subs bench and the main fact is that we were booted all over the pitch yet for some reason Steven Taylor was not booked. The Sunderland game saw the ref point to 3 or 4 places before booking Felliani for a innocuous foul, if the ref did that to Taylor he would have added about 5 minutes time added on.
We were bullied out of the points yesterday and then Fellaini getts booked for pushing back on Butt.
I don’t think he’ll play VDM unless he absolutely has to and who can blame him? The man has had three years top wages for what? If you do pay him your fullback is going to come under extreme pressure as he is a total liability when the oppositon have the ball. I can’t see Moyes giving him a chance to earn another twelve months wages warming the bench. VDM goes down with Bilic and Williamson in my book.
Van der Meyde should have came on, especially as we had no Osman or Pienaar! We had no wide players, so didn’t make the most of having the extra man, as we had no-one to get down the line and put some quality crosses in. Our only threat out wide was our left back Leighton Baines.
Let’s hope Leon Osman and Steven Pienaar can help bring some creativity to the team that will be missing through Mikel Arteta. It now annoys me even more why we signed Fellaini instead of Fernandes, because he is a class act like Arteta who can pass the ball about and dictate play, but as it is we have no players in a similar mould to Arteta.
Let’s hope Leon Osman and Steven Pienaar can help bring some creativity to the team that will be missing through Mikel Arteta. It now annoys me even more why we signed Fellaini instead of Fernandes, because he is a class act like Arteta who can pass the ball about and dictate play, but as it is we have no players in a similar mould to Arteta.
Tony Williams totally agree with you. The mistakes our defence made for Newcastle to score their three goals was completely moyesy’s fault. Oh hang on apart from the one sitter that they missed that was it, granted they had ten men but even b4 that awful challenge they had no chances. Van der meyde can cross a ball but that seems to be the start and end of his talents. But of course we are all at training day in day out so we no better than our manager. Get over it you pricks we failed to score but we got a point. Yes i was dissapointed but we were missing our main creative threats and then had Jo and Saha and Fellaini all unfit but had to play as our squad isnt big enough. Why not look at the positives like another clean sheet , a potential superstar in Rodwell who looked very very good and accomplished. Gosling had a decent game although probably found it a bit difficult in various positions. And match minutes for the three players mentioned above. Lets get behind our team for the next three winnable matches instead of always getting on Moyes’s back. Listen to the experts for god sakes they all rate moyes as one of if not the best pound for pound manager in the premiership. You lot would want him out if we lose two games in a row. Your pathetic
Good old Harry Hindsight. What if Jacobsen had played and cost us a goal and we lost 1-0? Everyone would have said why didn’t he play Yobo...
The 3 injuries (Gosling limped off aswell) limited Moyes’ options. Fellaini and Saha clearly weren’t fit so putting them on after 3 minutes would have been crazy. Ideally he wouldn’t have needed to use Castillo at all yesterday.
Gutted about Mikey, get well soon.
The 3 injuries (Gosling limped off aswell) limited Moyes’ options. Fellaini and Saha clearly weren’t fit so putting them on after 3 minutes would have been crazy. Ideally he wouldn’t have needed to use Castillo at all yesterday.
Gutted about Mikey, get well soon.
Arsenal draw at home.
Liverpool draw at home.
Villa get beat at home.
We get a point away despite losing the two players who most of us considered to be our men of the match against Villa.
For fucks sake I for one don’t think that is too bad!
As for playing 10 men...since when did that mean being assured of a win? At least as often as not it disrupts the innocent side just as much as the guilty! How many times have we seen 10 men hold out or even win?
We had our goalie sent off a couple of years ago against Blackburn and won 1-0 and if I remember right we had 4 goals disallowed!
I’m gutted about Mikky but Peanuts can do a job for us there when he’s back. Cheer up folks.
Liverpool draw at home.
Villa get beat at home.
We get a point away despite losing the two players who most of us considered to be our men of the match against Villa.
For fucks sake I for one don’t think that is too bad!
As for playing 10 men...since when did that mean being assured of a win? At least as often as not it disrupts the innocent side just as much as the guilty! How many times have we seen 10 men hold out or even win?
We had our goalie sent off a couple of years ago against Blackburn and won 1-0 and if I remember right we had 4 goals disallowed!
I’m gutted about Mikky but Peanuts can do a job for us there when he’s back. Cheer up folks.
Half of the people here don't have any, I mean any football knowledge ? it's embarassing to read, it's like an Newcastle, Spurs or Liverpool fan site.
You will have a a lot of options to come here moan and slate the players in the coming months, I know that injuries, suspensions, fatigue don't mean anything for you but the fact is that any football pundit with a half of football brain knows what is like half of your team with all your creative players to be out.
You will have a a lot of options to come here moan and slate the players in the coming months, I know that injuries, suspensions, fatigue don't mean anything for you but the fact is that any football pundit with a half of football brain knows what is like half of your team with all your creative players to be out.
I disagree with the original post by Jay.
Moyes did the best he could under the circumstances.
To give some persepective, we were missing our first choice forward line and midfield. (Yak, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Pienaar).
I challenge you to name any team in the WORLD who could play after such a disaster.
Can you imagine Manure without:
Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs
OK, I accept that there no points for excuses. But these are really extraordinary times for Everton and let us get behind the team and push them over the line. The manager, the players and the support staff need all the support they can get. COYB !!
Moyes did the best he could under the circumstances.
To give some persepective, we were missing our first choice forward line and midfield. (Yak, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Pienaar).
I challenge you to name any team in the WORLD who could play after such a disaster.
Can you imagine Manure without:
Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs
OK, I accept that there no points for excuses. But these are really extraordinary times for Everton and let us get behind the team and push them over the line. The manager, the players and the support staff need all the support they can get. COYB !!
I was at the match yesterday and for sure the silence when Arteta went off was deafening. We were stunned and I would lay any money the players were equally distraught, so it is with credit to them they continued as it did.
My only problem yesterday ? before kick off ? was putting Jags right back. I think the Dane should have gone there with Yobo on the bench. The other subs were ok in my opinion. Playing against 10 men is a nightmare, regardless of who you play.
My only problem yesterday ? before kick off ? was putting Jags right back. I think the Dane should have gone there with Yobo on the bench. The other subs were ok in my opinion. Playing against 10 men is a nightmare, regardless of who you play.
We ran out of players, got a point at a ground we haven't won at for years and the bar codes celebrated like they had won at Old Trafford. Frustrated, yes but not with Moyes or the team, it was just one of those days, just ask Villa, Arse and the red shite.
Think AVDM might have been part of the options in an ideal world but all of the substitutions came too soon for him. It seems pretty obvious that DM thinks he cant last more than 20-30 mins - therefore he wasnt an option to replace MA or VA. With one sub left in the second half I cant disagree with putting Saha on to try and get the 3 points.
When I first saw the team I couldnt understand the jags at RB decision but overall I think it worked - so fair play to Moyes.
Deeply disappointing not to win and a very average performance - but at the start of the season if we had been told with our squad we would be going into a match without Yak, Vaughan, Cahill, Pienaar, Osman, losing Arteta and Anichebe early and having unfit Saha and Fellaini having to play, I really wouldnt have expected anything at all other than a drubbing - even from 10 men
With MA out for the rest of the season anything other than 6th and an FACup SF defeat is a huge bonus. Come on you Mancs in the Carling Cup...
When I first saw the team I couldnt understand the jags at RB decision but overall I think it worked - so fair play to Moyes.
Deeply disappointing not to win and a very average performance - but at the start of the season if we had been told with our squad we would be going into a match without Yak, Vaughan, Cahill, Pienaar, Osman, losing Arteta and Anichebe early and having unfit Saha and Fellaini having to play, I really wouldnt have expected anything at all other than a drubbing - even from 10 men
With MA out for the rest of the season anything other than 6th and an FACup SF defeat is a huge bonus. Come on you Mancs in the Carling Cup...
Yobo is proven, that is why he played. Get off Fellaini?s back he is not fully fit. Fingers crossed on Mikel.
Hope he can come back with no problems at the beginning of next season.
I am still not convinced Moyes got it right. How could he not consider AVDM when obviously Fellaini is not mtch fit. Don’t forget AVDM set up Gosling’s goal. Since he is paid, make use of him. Many contributors here explain the defence deicison. FIne how about the AVDM decision. Moyes need to explain his decision.
Jay,
Moyes went for Yobo and Lescott central pairing, because he knows he can trust Yobo, Jags played well at RB a couple of times, wherever Jacobsen is unknown quality in EPL in a game that has to be won.
Neville had to stay in the midfield to allow Arteta freedom on the ball and organize things in centre assisting young and inexperienced Rodwell. The Castillo change was the obvious one as Fellaini wasn?t fit enough to be thrown so early, after Anichebe?s injury he opted for Fellaini in the middle of the park to bring a bit of creativity, height and danger from set pieces. Neville moved on the right as he can put a decent cross in, granted he may have opted for AvdM but he is often caught out of position and we couldn?t allow that.
The Saha substitution was last attempt to force a goal, we were lacking cohesion and rhythm and resolved to long balls, as he is good in the air, can win aerial battles, hold up the ball and is a great goalscorer on his day he was preferred to AvdM. Hope that helps you.
Moyes went for Yobo and Lescott central pairing, because he knows he can trust Yobo, Jags played well at RB a couple of times, wherever Jacobsen is unknown quality in EPL in a game that has to be won.
Neville had to stay in the midfield to allow Arteta freedom on the ball and organize things in centre assisting young and inexperienced Rodwell. The Castillo change was the obvious one as Fellaini wasn?t fit enough to be thrown so early, after Anichebe?s injury he opted for Fellaini in the middle of the park to bring a bit of creativity, height and danger from set pieces. Neville moved on the right as he can put a decent cross in, granted he may have opted for AvdM but he is often caught out of position and we couldn?t allow that.
The Saha substitution was last attempt to force a goal, we were lacking cohesion and rhythm and resolved to long balls, as he is good in the air, can win aerial battles, hold up the ball and is a great goalscorer on his day he was preferred to AvdM. Hope that helps you.
Obviously Fellaini wasn?t match fit enough to throw him in at all. Challenge me on this. How can a Manager not know that?
Moyes said Fellaini hadn?t trained for 3 weeks before the match, but still threw him on...
Mistake, as it was 10½ against 10 with him in the team...
It?s ok to slate Moyes once in a while when he gets it wrong... he aint the finshed article yet....
Mistake, as it was 10½ against 10 with him in the team...
It?s ok to slate Moyes once in a while when he gets it wrong... he aint the finshed article yet....
Fellaini was an emergency, Moyes admitted it afterwards but AvdM can't even last 45 min in the EPL pace. If you have seen the Liverpool game, you would have noticed that he tried 2 times to take on players who were 115 min on the pitch, whereas he was on for 3min and both times he couldn't get past them. Which shows me that he clearly isn't match fit.
Moyes knew that Fellaini wasn't fit but he was the better option compared to AvdM ? simple as that.
Moyes knew that Fellaini wasn't fit but he was the better option compared to AvdM ? simple as that.
Stefan, I know why Moyes made those choices.
And I would normally say the manager knows best but I?m just saying IMO he got a number of key decisions wrong yesterday.
With Jags at RB we had no penetration down the right and once Gosling went off no penetration down the left.
I am not criticising the players just the decision to play certain palyers in certain positions and to put Fellaini on at all seing as he clearly was not fit to play.
For me 30 minutes of VDM and we would have won the game.
And I would normally say the manager knows best but I?m just saying IMO he got a number of key decisions wrong yesterday.
With Jags at RB we had no penetration down the right and once Gosling went off no penetration down the left.
I am not criticising the players just the decision to play certain palyers in certain positions and to put Fellaini on at all seing as he clearly was not fit to play.
For me 30 minutes of VDM and we would have won the game.
Ok. Someone here said both Fellaini and AvdM are not match fit. It still does not explain why Moyes selected Fellaini over AvdM. At least AvdM has shown he is a more productive not fit player than Fellaini by setting up the goal. I quote: "Where is the logic?".
"At least AvdM has shown he is a more productive not fit player than Fellaini by setting up the goal." One goal, One Assist, One cross ? AvdM's entire contribution in 3 or 4 years. People have such short memories.
@Stefan,
Let me see that's 3 centre backs, a left back, a right back playing in midfield, a former centre back turned defensive midfielder, and a defensive midfielder all on the pitch at same time... it's all very logical obviously! What a balanced team/substitution selection! Bound to be able to score goals! ? which is what you need in order to actually get something more than a nil-nil.
Brilliant!
Let me see that's 3 centre backs, a left back, a right back playing in midfield, a former centre back turned defensive midfielder, and a defensive midfielder all on the pitch at same time... it's all very logical obviously! What a balanced team/substitution selection! Bound to be able to score goals! ? which is what you need in order to actually get something more than a nil-nil.
Brilliant!
Sadly it doesnt work that way that is FM stuff, sometime you can try everything, you can set up the team to win, you can throw the kitchen sink at the opposition and you still cant be able to come with a win.
This is a sign of our progress - we went to Newcastle without 8 first team players, lost another 2 (make them 10 ?!?!?) to a ground where we haven?t won for 10 years and we regard the draw as a failure. Too many player were playing out of position, too many players weren?t match fit, we were lacking rhythm and cohesion, I doubt it that AvdM would have changed the game he is not that kind of a player, he is able to produce the occasional brilliance and flair but he is not the player that will take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive us forward to win.
It also amazes me why are the people looking always for a villain or scapegoat sometimes there is nothing you can do and yesterday was one of these days. Credit to Newcastle they were resilient, composed and concentrated in defence and shut the shop very well.
This is a sign of our progress - we went to Newcastle without 8 first team players, lost another 2 (make them 10 ?!?!?) to a ground where we haven?t won for 10 years and we regard the draw as a failure. Too many player were playing out of position, too many players weren?t match fit, we were lacking rhythm and cohesion, I doubt it that AvdM would have changed the game he is not that kind of a player, he is able to produce the occasional brilliance and flair but he is not the player that will take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive us forward to win.
It also amazes me why are the people looking always for a villain or scapegoat sometimes there is nothing you can do and yesterday was one of these days. Credit to Newcastle they were resilient, composed and concentrated in defence and shut the shop very well.
"Obviously Fellaini wasn?t match fit enough to throw him in at all. Challenge me on this. How can a Manager not know that."
How do people behind the computer screen actually know AVDM is fitter than Fellaini when the Manager presumably doesn’t, is beyond me.
How do people behind the computer screen actually know AVDM is fitter than Fellaini when the Manager presumably doesn’t, is beyond me.
same old story, everyone thinking they know best. get real this is not football manager. And if it was I would clearly be the best man for the job anyway. Im walking the league with Everton. The way to do it now Davey listen up is, you get a billion pound to spend and you go spend that on messi, ronaldo, Aguero, febregas a guy called breno and Micah Richards. League champs. simple.
3 centre halves and 3 defensive midfielders on the pitch = little coherent attacking threat.
It ain't rocket science.
Castillo should never have got on to the pitch, neville should?ve started at right back... and Gosling should have been moved to the centre (were he might be a bit of use instead of flapping about on the wing) whenever Arteta went off... allowing VDM to earn his wages for a change.
It ain't rocket science.
Castillo should never have got on to the pitch, neville should?ve started at right back... and Gosling should have been moved to the centre (were he might be a bit of use instead of flapping about on the wing) whenever Arteta went off... allowing VDM to earn his wages for a change.
Joe Rourke,
I said that the standard among Toffeeweb contributors is falling and you are the obvious example. No one has said that the team is balanced ? the opposite Moyes stated that this time too many players are playing out of position and that why we couldn?t find our rhythm. As for your comments about ?right back playing in midfield, a former centre back turned defensive midfielder? I will repeat again this just shows the level of football knowledge you have which is frightening ridiculous. Neville played his defensive midfield role with aplomb this season and was needed in midfield to organize things, Rodwell was MoM with 83% completed passes and almost won us the game in the injury time.
?What a balanced team/substitution selection! Bound to be able to score goals!? ? just to point out maybe its too hard for you to understand this but all 5 our creative midfielders were either injured or suspended, I would be also glad to see your fantasy selection. From all of the substitutions on the bench only AvdM could have brought up some attacking creativity, the team was set up to win, we had the majority of the possession, we created 2-3 very good goalscoring opportunities but couldn?t score.
I used to think Avdm could not changed a game> He has 2 weeks back. I not a football manager. So lets forget about crap like beanbag critic or best man for the job. Explain why chose an unfit player who has not trained 3 weeks over a equally unfit player who has done well recently.
One cross in 4 years can’t be classified as a good form recently sorry
Some people sure do have short memorey,s it was only a few week,s back that Moyes was getting stick for not taking Fellaini off at half time against Hull, get off his back and let him now play in his prefered role centre mid.
Here we go again. First off, Neville has been a key part of our midfield - his positional awareness and leadership give us the platform for Arteta and Rodwell to build on. People saying he should have been moved to right back yesterday are seriously underestimating his impact on midfield in recent weeks.
Jacobsen - none of us have seen him train or play, yet he makes the comment he is ’raring to go’ and people are certain he should have played. How do any of you know if he is remotely up to speed? Look at how Castillo has looked totally out nof his depth in many games. VDM manages 10 minute cameo roles and is suddenly the answer to all our problems.
I remember a couple of years back there was a calmour for VDM after a coupler of cameos. Moyes gave him a start against Sunderland and he was laughably bad, he never broke into a jog never mind a sweat. I still think Moyes did it to prove a point to the fans.
As for substitutions, he had made one enforced change after 3 minutes. The sedning off came with an hour to go, no need for immediate substitutions. Then Anichebe is crocked, with Newcastle seemingly intent on maiming our players. Again, Moyes is criticised for not immediately bringing on somebody to unlock the defence and leave us with no further subs. Ridiculous thinking.
The final change was always going to be either Saha or VDM. Saha looked lively and made a positive impact. Can anyone be certain VDM would have made a bigger impact?
Arteta is a big miss and we looked short of creativity. We were also without Pienaar and Osman, either one of whom would have made a difference yesterday in that regard. In fact, the game was tailor made for Ossie to utilise the space in midfield driving at the defence.
Onwards and upwards, losing Arteta is a huge blow but we have a number of good players to come back in. We were absolutely down to the bare bones yesterday and all people want to do is criticise Moyes. Very strange.
Jacobsen - none of us have seen him train or play, yet he makes the comment he is ’raring to go’ and people are certain he should have played. How do any of you know if he is remotely up to speed? Look at how Castillo has looked totally out nof his depth in many games. VDM manages 10 minute cameo roles and is suddenly the answer to all our problems.
I remember a couple of years back there was a calmour for VDM after a coupler of cameos. Moyes gave him a start against Sunderland and he was laughably bad, he never broke into a jog never mind a sweat. I still think Moyes did it to prove a point to the fans.
As for substitutions, he had made one enforced change after 3 minutes. The sedning off came with an hour to go, no need for immediate substitutions. Then Anichebe is crocked, with Newcastle seemingly intent on maiming our players. Again, Moyes is criticised for not immediately bringing on somebody to unlock the defence and leave us with no further subs. Ridiculous thinking.
The final change was always going to be either Saha or VDM. Saha looked lively and made a positive impact. Can anyone be certain VDM would have made a bigger impact?
Arteta is a big miss and we looked short of creativity. We were also without Pienaar and Osman, either one of whom would have made a difference yesterday in that regard. In fact, the game was tailor made for Ossie to utilise the space in midfield driving at the defence.
Onwards and upwards, losing Arteta is a huge blow but we have a number of good players to come back in. We were absolutely down to the bare bones yesterday and all people want to do is criticise Moyes. Very strange.
No-one is saying Van der meyde is brilliant, but the one thing he will do is get down the line and whip in quality crosses and we could have done with that yesterday as there was a lack of service to Jo and Saha and no width to stretch Newcastle’s ten men!
Also, for everyone defending Fellaini saying he’s not match fit, he plays like that every game anyway. He strolls around the picth showing a lack of desire and then gives needless fouls away.
Also, for everyone defending Fellaini saying he’s not match fit, he plays like that every game anyway. He strolls around the picth showing a lack of desire and then gives needless fouls away.
Sorry Jay, but you lost me as soon as you said "Why split Jags Lescott and Baines up to accomodate Yobo" then suggest that he should move Lescott to left back and Baines to left midfield. I’m presuming that would be to accomodate Yobo?
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1 Posted 22/02/2009 at 19:57:16
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I've just watched David Moyes's post match interview on MOTD and and am full of admiration for the restraint and dignity he showed. Nolan's assault on Vic was shameful and inexcusable. Can you just imagine the response of Benitez to a challenge like that?
Everton thrive in the face of adversity which is just as well considering the truly appalling luck we have had.I thought it was meant to even out in the end.
AvdM if ever you want to save your career, now is the time.